The Spot You’re Missing: How Skin Checks Save Lives

Skin cancer doesn’t always look like a dark, jagged mole—it can be a faint freckle, a small pink bump, or a quiet spot you’d never notice. In this episode, we sit down with Dr. David Oberlin, board-certified dermatologist with a passion for skin cancer care and rural medicine, to break down what makes a skin check truly effective, comfortable, and potentially life-saving—and how a focused ten-minute exam can change everything.

We walk through exactly how to prepare (clean skin, no makeup or self-tanner, nail polish off, hair down), what to expect during the exam, and how tools like dermoscopy help catch melanoma earlier while avoiding unnecessary biopsies. Plus: cryotherapy vs. biopsy basics, myths we need to retire (no such thing as a healthy tan), and realistic follow-up plans—so you can protect your future self with confidence.

Transcript

Welcome And Why Skin Checks Matter

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Medical conditions or medications that may increase your risk of certain types of skin cancer. We take this risk very seriously. And I tell my transplant patients, it's essentially patients always want to know what is it, right? The way I explain it is it's a fancy magnifying glass, it's 10x magnification run with polarized light. Then we'll explain what we're seeing. You know, if there's some asymmetry, some irregular pigment, a vascular pattern that's a little bit unusual, um, or something maybe that's just new compared to last year, we'll tell you that a biopsy is needed.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

There are some of your favorite myths you wanted to bust, sort of surrounding skin cancer and skin checks, just to let people know sort of what is fact from fiction.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Welcome to Dermit Trotter, Don't Swear About Skin Care, where host Dr. Shannon C. Trotter, a board-certified dermatologist, sits down with fellow dermatologists and skincare experts to separate fact from fiction and simplify skincare. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Welcome to the Dermitrotter Don't Swear About Skin Care podcast. So we've got a great episode here today. I've got Dr. David Oberlin on. He's a board-certified dermatologist with Forefront Dermatology in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He's got a passion for skin cancer and rural medicine. And our favorite thing is a dermatologist, skin checks. And that's what we're going to talk about today. Skin checks. What are they? How do you get ready for it? How do you prepare? Because it's probably something you should be doing on your own. But more importantly, definitely should get checked out, you know, periodically by a dermatologist. So welcome to the podcast, Dave.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Thanks, Shannon. Appreciate you having me here. It's honestly an honor to share this part of the platform along so many leaders in our field and have the opportunity to educate so many patients at scale.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Hey, we we love doing that. And our listeners out there are probably thinking about skin checks. Some of you have probably had one. Others are probably going, I've never done it. Like, why would I do it? What even is a skin check? Maybe they've never even been to like a dermatologist before, or even had their family doc or somebody else take a peek. So I wanted to have you touch a little bit upon, you know, the importance of skin exams, you know, skin cancer, what we're looking for. Then we'll talk a little bit more about the specifics and what they really entail.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Yeah. Well, this is what we're passionate about in dermatology. A full body skin check is one of the fastest, most simple, and life-saving exams in all of medicine. It's literally 10 minutes, one gown, and the chance to save the chance to catch something early enough to save your life. Skin cancer is the most common cancer in the United States, and I do thousands of skin checks every year. And something I always tell my patients is the most dangerous skin cancers are the ones you don't know about. Basal cell, squamous cell, and melanoma are all names you've probably heard, but what people don't realize is that skin cancer can be incredibly subtle. A melanoma can look like a small pink bump, a faint, slightly irregular freckle, or a spot on your back you may not even see. I diagnose melanomas every week that patients didn't even know existed. They're not always painful, dark, or bothersome. And we really take pride in being able to find these spots before they could become a major issue. An early detection, Shannon, as you know, is everything. Detecting melanoma early can literally be the difference between a small same-day in-office procedure and a life-threatening cancer that is spread inside the body. So to us, skin checks are not vanity, they're not cosmetic, and for patients, it's not optional. It's preventative medicine at its best.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

You're right. Because I feel like too, you know, what people don't realize, like, oh, I can look at my skin. I don't, I don't see anything that really bothers me. And I think what people forget as dermatologists, I mean, we are trained to do skin exams to find those subtle findings, things that probably the average person might gloss over. And admittedly, even some of our colleagues in other areas of medicine may not be trained to recognize. So I really like that you focus in on, you know, how skin cancers actually don't always fit the mold or the textbook, you know, that we think about. And then also that there's rare types of skin cancer. And sometimes we find other things on skin checks too. Even though we're dedicated to skin cancer and saving lives, people could have other skin conditions brewing that they just can't see or that they're not even aware of, which I think is fascinating to bring up and draw to their attention as well.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Sorry, I didn't mean to funny you mentioned that. I actually have my uh tick jar. So many people have a tip jar on their desk, but I actually keep a jar of ticks that I've pulled off patients over the last time. So I keep it right here, and you just made me think of that.

Preparing For A Quality Skin Exam

SPEAKER_01 4:36

You're exactly right. The last place I found one was in between the first toe web space, the great toe and the second toe. Pretty fascinating. Never thought I'd find one there. Yeah, it was pretty cool. But you're right, we do find ticks in the summertime very often, and you know, and probably throughout the year for some of the other folks. But it is kind of interesting. You never know what you find when you'll start a skin check. So if you have patients that you want to come in to give a skin check, or maybe they've scheduled in your office, or somebody's out there like, oh gosh, I got a skin check in the next few weeks. How do you walk them through like what to do or prepare? Because the people are pretty nervous, right? They they know they're coming in, they're probably gonna get naked in front of you. They may be just meeting you for the first time, and they're like, gosh, do you buy me dinner first? And here I am in a gown, and you're gonna look at me all over. So, what do you tell patients about preparing for a skin exam?

SPEAKER_02 5:20

You're absolutely right, Shannon. It's like a blind date, right? We don't know what we're getting, they don't know what they're getting, but preparation does matter. And there are a few keys that we look at that start even before your visit. And I'll kind of go through those um one by one for us. So, first off, come in with clean skin. We want no makeup, no heavy lotion, no self-tanner, and no bad sunburns. I have people that come in with like peeling sunburns and they want their skin check, and we say, come back in a couple of weeks, we'll do it later. I also tell patients, makeup hides lesions. I regularly see patients that come in with a full face of makeup and they expect me to evaluate spots. Sometimes I simply can't see what I need to see. Even with wipes, I find that makeup can still distort a lesion's true appearance. So come in with that clean, all natural, makeup-free skin gives you your best exam. Number two, remove any nail polish. Melanoma can start under the nail and polish blocks us from seeing it. Wear your hair down. We look through your scalp. So tight buttons, extensions, and wigs reduce our ability to see around that area. Number four, bring photos or a short list of spots that you're concerned about. Try to avoid bringing a long list of spots for us to check. I think all derms shudder a bit when we walk in the room and we see a patient that has a list of 25 spots that they want evaluated. So don't go over fear the list. Right. Yeah. So don't go overboard on trying to watch spots. You know, I tell patients, let us worry about your spots so you don't have to. I have patients that want to go through and like point at every spot on their skin, right? And this will derail a thorough examination. Rest assured, we are experts in pattern recognition and we are looking closely at your hair, skin, and nails. Your phone is a great tool. If something grows or changes, photos can really help us objectively evaluate for those changes over time. You live with your skin every day, though. So you're usually the first to notice any changes. Trust your instincts and show us that the spots, show us the spots that you're truly worried about. Number five is really focus on the purpose of the skin check. And I'm sure you get this a bunch, Shannon, where patients want to use their skin check as their once in every 10 years visit to the dermatologist. A skin check is not the time to discuss every skin issue that you have. I recommend on focusing on the areas of potential skin cancer and arranged follow-up visit to discuss other concerns in detail. It's not that I'm not interested, but I want to focus on the task at hand and catch any early changes of skin cancer. Additionally, I find that when we discuss too much in a single visit, the patients and providers can have a little bit difficulty remember everything that we discuss. Number six would be know your family history. It's imperative that we know that. If you have a first degree history, a first-degree relative with a history of melanoma, that doubles your risk of skin cancer.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Do you mind explaining first degree? Because some people might be off there like, what does that mean?

Comfort, Modesty, And Dress Code

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Yeah, your mom, your brother, your you know, your child. So in Hastings, Michigan, where I am in in um in rural Michigan, we see the whole family, right? I see grandpa and grandma, I see the the this next generation, we see the kids for acne and warts. So I get a great sense of the full family history. We kind of build out that whole family tree, and they go, Oh, you see my cousin Sutchin Sun, so you know my skin. And really, you can start to see some of those genetics playing a role in the skin and how they interact. Um, and then finally, what I would say is my final tip um is bring your insurance card and your medication list. Even though you're probably referred from your primary care doctor's office, many times we're on a different electronic medical record. Therefore, we may not have your insurance card or medication list on file. Bringing that up-to-date insurance card can prevent you from any unwanted copays or hidden costs. And often your insurance dictates where your pathology is sent, so it's imperative that we know where to send your biopsy. Additionally, knowing the medications that you're on can prevent any dangerous drug-drug interactions that we want to avoid. And we also really want to know about any immunosuppression, such as organ transplants, medical conditions, or medications that may increase your risk of certain types of skin cancer. We take this risk very seriously. And I tell my transplant patients, you have a fast pass to get in here sooner, should you notice something growing, bleeding, or changing. I feel as though this preparation makes your exam faster, more accurate, and certainly way more useful.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Yeah, I would agree. Because you know, there are a lot of people I get they want to consolidate visits, right? They've got little time, they're busy, they have to take off work, co-pays, high deductibles. But for a skin exam, you know, to be effective, I think you do need that dedicated time. And as dermatologists, we need to take that time to really thoroughly look at the skin. And we'll talk about some tools and things that we can actually use to help identify, you know, skin cancers earlier, but then also determine sometimes if something's benign and doesn't need a biopsy. But one thing I wanted to bring up, you know, we mentioned like necessarily don't get too focused on lists. I tell people, yeah, just don't make an obsession. But if you're really worried about something and think you won't remember, of course, we'll try to address that. But no, we're gonna be looking all over. And just because we don't mention a spot doesn't mean we necessarily missed it. I think some people get concerned, like, you didn't comment on this spot. Often it's probably because it's benign and it's something we see very often. So we may not bring it up at the appointment. So if there is a particular spot that's drawing your attention or you're worried about, we do want you to leave where you feel like, okay, it was a good check. I feel like they caught everything. So there's something that you're really focused on. Make sure you do bring it up so we can address it. And then also that intuition you talked about. I think there's value in that. Obviously, no great study to validate it. But when patients come in, especially for somebody who's not coming in, you know, maybe obsessed with every spot and wanting everything removed, but they're like, gosh, this mole seems different. Like it seems slightly bigger, slightly darker around. I just have this feeling this mole isn't right. The majority of times I'll remove it and it's still okay. But it's amazing to me how sometimes I will catch very early skin cancers, in particular melanoma, because of some sort of communication, whether it's just this I call it kind of a clinical distult the patient has or intuition that something's not right with their body. So I do tell patients, listen to your body, skin spots. If they're drawing your attention, let us know. Now I want to get to kind of the exciting part, the dress code, right? Of kind of coming in for that skin check. Because I think that's the most intimidating part. People know if we're gonna be looking at their skin, then clearly the clothes are probably coming off. Although, like you mentioned, we give them a gown. Um, you know, in our office, you know, I try to have people take undergarments off, but if they're not comfortable, we obviously tell them they can keep them on. The assumption is then probably they don't want me to look in those areas, or if they do, just have to understand it's going to be quite limited because I'll have to work around that clothing. Um, but I have to tell a great story. I had a patient come in literally a few weeks ago in for a skin check. Now she's a repeat customer, so she knows what to expect. But she came in and she said, I just want to share something with you. You know, before I came in today, I showered, I shaved, and I even wore a matching brawn underwear all for you. And she said, I don't even do that for my husband anymore. And I thought, well, what a wonderful gesture. I said, You don't need to do that, which is what I want you to talk more about. Like what patients really need to do from the dress code standpoint, because I think people think they need to dress to impress when they're coming in. But as you and I know, not really the case, right, Dave?

Hidden Areas And Oral Mucosa Checks

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Well, I don't want to one-up you, but one of my patients today actually, he brought in mints because he says, Oh, I don't want you to have to smell my breath. And I was like, that's a new one. I was like, I'm gonna be on a podcast later. If I get a chance to mention you, I will. Hey, clear it up. Yeah, he's really thinking about me. You know, I get some of those guys that work at the tree service and they come in at the end of the day. So certainly little checks can be a little bit um, you know, more odiferous than other checks, but absolutely right. What is the desk dress code? And that's what I would say my wife would be most concerned about when coming into the check, right? What are you gonna wear? Where's I always would say wear something that's comfortable to take off and put back on. It does not have to be stylish. There are no secrets in the dermatology office. We see it all. And fashion is often the least of our concern. Wear underbolt underwear you're comfortable being examined in. Leave your fancy lingerie at home. You don't need to fully undress if you're not comfortable, similar to your clinic Shannon. But you'll be given a gown and accessibility matters. The easier it is for us to see your skin, the better the exam. I like to joke with my patients that there's a modesty check next to the coat rack at the front door. But your comfort is such a big part of this exam. You're always in control. If you want a same gender chaperone, that's always available. If you're uncomfortable with any part of the exam, always let us know. And honestly, we will do anything in our power to make you as comfortable as possible during the examination.

Dermoscopy: Seeing Beyond The Surface

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Yeah, I like that you bring that up because it is daunting, right? You meet somebody for the first time, and even though they know that we're healthcare professionals and there's this professional relationship, you know, physician-patient, it's scary. You know, they're going to be peeking at them and looking around, and everyone has this level of being self-conscious a little bit about their body. One thing that I try to do too, that I think is really helpful with that, in particular for women, I always recline people back, especially to look at the front. I'll tell you, as a woman myself, I always feel my best when I'm kind of flatter versus like kind of crunched up. I think I look thinner and a little bit better that way. And I think women feel more comfortable too, versus I have seen some colleagues like have people sort of stand and twirl around. And I also think too, that creates shadowing. It's nice to have light directly coming down onto the body if you're evaluating a patient. And you know, you can pull down to kind of look at the chest, but you can actually pull up and keep the chest covered and bring a drape up to cover the lower half and look at the abdomen. So we can maintain modesty. And I always say, don't assume. I mean, you will have a lot of women come in. Oh, I've had kids, or I've been, you know, here, they're like, I've been in Ohio State. There were six people in the room with me for my C-section. But I also tell my residents and I even tell patients, like, we don't assume that modesty doesn't matter to you based on age or what you've gone through. Everyone has different levels of what makes them comfortable. So, like you said, you know, we'll accommodate. And, you know, the gal too, when she said, I shaved, I said, you know, hair doesn't bother me. Hair's just another thing on the body. But I said, I understand if it made you feel prepped and prepared. And so I said, if that makes you feel better about coming in, you know, we'll fully support it. But I haven't got anyone to do the breath mints. But I will say on a skin check, I do look inside the mouth. Not every dermatologist does this, but I'm in an area too where you have higher risk for tobacco use, chewing tobacco in particular, even alcohol. So we catch quite a few, I would say you're in it compared to other dermatologists, more than they would see, probably three to five uh squamous cells on the tongue per year, which is a little high. We see a lot of precancerous conditions on the tongue. And I remind my patients inside the mouth and inside the vaginal area is skin too, as well as kind of you know, tracking up inside the nose that's wet mucosal skin. So we can only evaluate so much into the nose and in the mouth and vaginal area or around the anal area of the buttock. But we should be looking in those sneaky little places because things do pop up. I've had intranasal squamous cell carcinomas that have popped up that have gone missed, or people just thought, you know, they had a sore, you know, for several months in the nose. And so I told you you can have skin cancers pop up anywhere, not just where the sun tends to shine. And I'm sure you've seen similar things or looked at the body too using tools like dermoscopy. Is that something you use on a regular basis, Dave?

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Yeah, of course. I mean, the dermalite here, it's sitting right next to me as I'm in my office. And I wouldn't I wouldn't leave home without it. You know, I have one in every clinic and I have one that comes with me. So, you know, we're very big about dermoscopy. Um, it's essentially patients always want to know what is it, right? The way I explain it is it's a fancy magnifying glass, it's 10x magnification run with polarized light. It lets us see pigment networks, vascular patterns, and other structural clues deeper in the skin that cannot be seen with the naked eye. It reduces unnecessary biopsies and helps us catch melanoma early that otherwise could be missed.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

I have to tell you, if I do a skin check without a dermatoscope, I literally no pun intended, but I feel naked myself. Like if I don't have it, it doesn't feel like a thorough check. And that light does come in handy. You know, we can even toggle it if people have pigmentary disorders, we're worried about bitilego, we have like a black light type function, we can evaluate the skin. You know, it comes in handy. And what's also, I think, important, not only do we find early skin cancers, like you mentioned, but we save people biopsies. You know, we're back in the day, we just couldn't tell there wasn't enough information. So it's great to get patients sort of reassurance on it too. Now, if somebody's coming in for a skin check, if everyone's been to the dermatologist before, they know we're pretty efficient, right? And I think we do skin checks enough that we're pretty systematic. But how long do you tell patients a skin check might take for them? It's just so they can plan for the visit.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Yeah, always a great question. I like to tell my patients, you know, it's a high quality service in a timely manner. You know, we we are moving pretty quickly, right? And so on average, I would say if a skin check takes five to 10 minutes, it's because we do it constantly, right? It's not because we're rushing you. The analogy I use is like if you were to change your oil at home, it would take you all afternoon, right? Whereas if you pull up at one of those quick loop places, they have you your oil change and you're back on the road in like 10 or 15 minutes, right? It's just a matter of efficiency by doing it constantly.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah, and I think that's important to bring up because people might you know think that speed replaces accuracy. And you're right, because we have a trained eye and we're looking. And I'm pretty systematic. I mean, my staff know I'm gonna do the same thing, the same questions, probably a little monotonous for them, but it ensures I don't miss anything, and then I kind of treat everything to the same, you know, level of like you know, when I'm looking at somebody. But when I'm looking, if I find something I don't love, that's where sort of the magic happens. And and now we're talking maybe doing a biopsy or removing something if you think it's suspicious. How do you go over that with a patient to kind of reassure them, especially if they've never had a biopsy before? What are the next steps?

Speed, Thoroughness, And What To Expect

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Yeah, great question. So, you know, as you said, we're experts in pattern recognition. So anything that sticks out to us, anything suspicious. We usually pause and we talk about it right away. If a lesion can be addressed with like liquid nitrogen, cryotherapy, what we call cold spray treatment, we often take care of it right on the spot. I describe the treatment as like a cold rubber band snap. I would say affectionately, my patients say that I'm a freeze first, ask questions later kind of guy. But I would say if we determine a biopsy is needed, then we'll explain what we're seeing. You know, if there's some asymmetry, some irregular pigment, a vascular pattern that's a little bit unusual, um, or something maybe that's just new compared to last year, we'll tell you that a biopsy is needed. And what we do is we'll mark the spot, we'll take a picture that'll be saved directly in your medical record, we'll put a little numbing shot in there, we'll take a quick sample, bandage it. The whole thing is done quicker than we can explain it. Most people say the numbing shot is really the only uncomfortable part, and that lasts lasts only just a second. What I like about biopsies is it helps us to confirm, not guess. I like to say when in doubt, cut it out. And we would always rather over-protect your skin than miss something that's early or subtle.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

And I think patients would probably appreciate that too. It can be scary, the thought of a biopsy, but you know, sometimes that peace of mind is just worthless weight and goal to know one way or or the other, right? If it's okay, no additional treatment. If it's something that needs to be addressed, you know, the thought is hopefully because they came in for that skin check, we potentially caught it very early. Now, skin check-wise, and I gotta say, in my area, I do a lot of skin exams. I mean, there are days where we've had 10, 15, 20 in a row, and that's pretty consistent, especially because I do have an older population at one of my clinic locations, lots of rural folks, you know, similar probably to your situation and agriculture. People that spend a lot of time outdoors, even just with hobbies and activities. And I have to admit, like getting people in for skin checks, it's hard because I'm sort of a one person there, but I've actually added people to the team because we just have so many people to screen. And some of my patients, almost to the point, I mean, they love getting their skin checked. I think they come in every three months to get a skin check. But as you and I know, that's not necessarily meant for every person. We've really sort of devise what we call skin checks or kind of the fancier term, skin surveillance, where we're kind of surveying or watching their skin based on risk factors and history. I wanted to get your thoughts, Dave, on kind of, you know, what factors or how you put that together to sort of develop, you know, recommendations for how often a patient should get a skin exam.

Biopsies, Freezing, And Next Steps

SPEAKER_02 22:32

And what I love about this question is in medicine, the answer always is it depends, right? We we don't have a finite answer always. So for my high risk patients, I do recommend at-home body checks. Um, I tell the patients to get the full-length mirror out once a quarter, look yourself over head to toe. If you notice anything new, anything black, anything changing, let us know sooner than one year. For an in-off examination with a provider, I usually say once a year on average, if you have no major risk factors. Sometimes my patients with a history of melanoma, multiple skin cancers, or with a lot of immunosuppression will bring them in every six months. And for the year following a melanoma diagnosis, we follow those patients every three months, making sure that we're paying close attention to not only the scar for any early recurrence, but looking for any other new new spots. So I always say your schedule should be personalized. It's not one size fits all. Come to an agreement with your dermatologist on how often you should be seen.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

That's great advice. And I think in the day of personalized medicine, patients appreciate that. And I think patient preference plays a big role in that too, because you do have some patients that are more confident or comfortable checking their skin at home. And there are others that are like, I can't see, my eyesight's poor, I don't have anyone to help me look at my back. And so sometimes we're modifying it, not only based on history, but that patient preference role really impacts, I think, that decision-making process that you can go over with your dermatologists and figuring out when a skin check you know is right for you and how often should it be done. So, in our last couple of minutes here, I know you're loving the myth busting. That's one of your favorite things to do. So I wanted to have you just kind of like throw out there some of your favorite myths you wanted to bust, sort of surrounding skin cancer and skin checks, just to let people know sort of what is fact from fiction.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

Well, so a couple of myths, you know, I think the the thought process is really changing on this. There used to be the the the knowledge was a tan protects your skin, but the answer is no. Every tan represents DNA damage, and so there is no such thing as a healthy tan. Okay. Secondarily, you know, another thing, having trained in Detroit at Henry Ford Hospital, you know, we saw a lot of patients with skin of color. And there's this myth that patients with skin of color don't get skin cancer, and that is absolutely false. Patients of skin of color do get skin cancer, and because of this myth, they're often diagnosed later and at a more aggressive stage. So we really want to caution um patients with skin of color to be cognizant of anything on their skin. Um, another one is if it doesn't hurt, it's fine. So skin cancer usually doesn't hurt unless it's very advanced, with the caveat being some of the quickly growing squamous cells we see that sometimes painful. But just because it's not painful does not mean that it's not cancer. And then finally, the one that I'm seeing a lot, and I don't know about you, Shannon, and I don't know where this is coming from. Um, like is this social media or where is this coming from? But a lot of people are now worried about getting biopsies. They're saying shaving moles is dangerous. Um, they're worried that shaving a mole will cause melanoma or that a biopsy will cause cancer to spread. Um, and that's just simply not true. It's absolutely false. Getting a biopsy is the most important thing you can do to diagnose skin cancer, to stage it and treat it appropriately.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Okay, couldn't couldn't have said any better. I love that we're kind of ending on that note. You know, I tell everyone any day is a good day for a skin check, right? I mean, if you need to get one, get a baseline, then develop that personalized plan with your dermatologist and how often you need to be seen, get some education on what to look for, some protection as well. That's what we're here for. Our specialty is dedicated to this. I want to thank you, Dave, so much for coming on the podcast. It's been great to have you kind of walk through this for our audience and what to expect the next time they're thinking about getting a skin check.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Great. Thank you, Shannon. Really appreciate it. And my final tip is get in that birthday suit once a year around your birthday, and 10 minutes could protect your life.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Well said, well said. Well, stay tuned for the next episode of Dermitrotter Don't Swear About Skin Care.

How Often To Get Skin Checks

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Thanks for listening to Dermotrotter. For more about skincare, visit dermitrotter.com. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this podcast with anyone who needs a little skincare sanity. Until next time, stay skin smart.