You Matter, I Matter
You Matter, I Matter is a podcast for honest, human conversations about trust, connection, and what it really means to belong.
In a world that often pulls us apart — from ourselves and from each other — this podcast exists as a gentle remembering: that we were never truly separate. Through raw, reflective, and deeply human dialogue, each episode invites you into a space where you don’t have to perform, fix, or strive. Just arrive.
Here, we explore what it means to matter — first to ourselves, and then in relationship with others. We speak openly about trust, commitment, growth, loneliness, belonging, and the quiet inner work of becoming more conscious without losing who we are.
This isn’t self-help, hustle culture, or quick answers. It’s a slower, more grounded space for reflection, truth, and real connection. A place to feel less alone, more seen, and gently called back to what’s true.
Because transformation doesn’t begin with fixing what’s broken.
It begins when we show up — in trust, in relationship, and in truth.
You matter. I matter.
And you’re welcome here.
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For those ready to go deeper, I offer live retreats that bring these themes into embodied experience — and soon, private coaching for those seeking more personalised support.
Visit [website coming soon] to learn more or join the mailing list for updates.
You Matter, I Matter
Becoming a Top Achiever: A High Performance Toolkit | David Hyner
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David Hyner is an award winning international professional speaker, author, broadcaster and researcher, looking into personal effectiveness having interviewed over 250+ top achievers in 24 years.
Over years of research, adventures and success, David Hyner has helped thousands of people to tap into the mindset of the worlds highest achievers and most effective performers, and use these principles to improve their own performance. He gives your delegates the inspiration to take MASSIVE action!
David has presented to over 1.2 MILLION people in the last 22 years.
***A Little About David Achievements***
ISM – lifetime achievement award.
Speaker hall of fame – ACE, academy for chief executives.
10yr service award – VISTAGE International (chief exec network).
FLPI – Fellow of the Learning & Performance Institute.
FPSA – Fellow of the professional speaking association.
PSAE – Professional Speaking Award of Excellence.
- Former BBC Radio show host.
- Multiple Amazon subject no1 Author.
- Raised in excess of 3/4 MILLION pounds, breaking 4 charity fundraising records in the process.
- Creator of 10 video training course, one of which was in the top 100 most downloaded courses online.
- Founding Director of a publishing business with over 100 Kindle books on Amazon.
In our conversation, David emphasizes the pivotal role of mentorship and finding a mentor who has walked the path to success you aspire to tread. What drives top achievers? David shares how focusing on service and helping others, rather than seeking approval, has been key to his achievements. He also provides practical advice on how to manage the overwhelming feeling of having too many goals and the fear of making the wrong choice. By identifying a few passions and committing to them, David suggests you can take proactive steps to prevent procrastination and drive forward towards your dreams.
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Man Quest Defying Meaning
Speaker 1In today's episode , we talk about choosing a goal and fully committing to it , about taking ownership of your actions , doing over-dreaming and the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people . Welcome to man Quest Defying Meaning , where we help men navigate modern life , find their true purpose and redefine manhood . I'm your host , james , and each week , inspiring guests share their journeys of overcoming fear , embracing vulnerability and finding success . From experts to everyday heroes , get practical advice and powerful insights . Struggling with career relationships or personal growth We've got you covered . Join us on man Questify Meaning . Now let's dive in . Good morning . Today I have my special guest , david Heiner . How are you , David ?
Speaker 2I'm brilliant . Thanks , James , for inviting me on .
Speaker 1For the guests and audience out there . Me and David have done quite a bit of work together with speaking and things like that , and it's more . I know , David , he's an amazing speaker . David , can you start off by telling us your journey ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I was born . No , there we go . Sorry , can't help myself . Yeah , I was born in the UK , in the West Midlands , in Birmingham .
Speaker 2I was a very average kid growing up , at best Right up until the end of high school . Really , I just I was a bit of a coward . I was very immature , I didn't know that at the time , but I was . I wasn't a coward in the literal sense , though , so I didn't shy away from the rough and tumble of life , played rugby , went up the and it did that kind of stuff . But when it came to personal insecurities , I guess I was too afraid to put my hand up in class , too afraid to ask for help or too afraid to do the work needed , or , if I didn't understand , I'd walk away rather than try and figure it out . And I , and so I grew up and woke up at the age of 30 , having strived for and achieved nothing at all .
Speaker 2And I was I don't know about you , james , but I was one of these people who had dreams , goals , aspirations , and I sometimes say my talks places . I wanted to go things , I wanted to do things , I wanted to achieve , and other than find a woman mad enough to marry me at the age of 30 , I looked at all the things I wanted to do and I'd achieved none of them , not a single thing . And I had an epiphany moment where I just said to myself Dave , you need to stop believing that voice that says you can't and go and find out what's true , believing that voice that says you can't , and go and find out what's true , can you ? Because it's no good saying I can't if you haven't tried . And , in the spirit of honesty , I'm not one of these motivational speakers who will only tell you the cool stuff with pointy fingers and a wink and white teeth and matching tie and cufflinks . I'm honest , I've still failed since the age of 30 , sometimes gloriously . If anyone ever sees me , you'll see I'm an average little fat guy from Birmingham who just happens to have turned his life around a bit and been places , done things and achieved things that the average little me before the age of 30 would never , ever have dreamt possible .
Speaker 2I started interviewing successful people as a hobby , because I wanted to find out how I could be more happy and successful and effective . And when I started hearing all these common little traits , james , the way they think , the way they behave , I realized that you know what . None of this is difficult . It's just about consistency and relentlessness doing the little things . There's a lot of talk in sport these days about marginal gains and the 1% that will elevate you to success , and actually that , combined with a relentless consistency , is what it's all about .
Speaker 2I learned from these top achievers how to set goals which just changed my world fundamentally , achievers , how to set goals which just changed my world fundamentally . And and now , at the age of yeah , I've got to stop and think . At the age of 57 , that's it 57 , I think . Yeah , I'm one of the few speakers who have presented to over a million people live all over the world over quarter of a million virtually people give me awards and trinkets and baubles and things like that , and I'm still the same average little fat guy from Birmingham who goes what me ? I don't deserve that and full of insecurities . Still , it's just that , despite them , I still go and find out what's true . So that's a potted history .
Speaker 1Isn't every person average in some respects , gloriously , gloriously average ? Because this yes , there are people out there who think they're better than everybody else , but underneath that , that outer layer , probably inside , they're probably just their average selves . They have insecurities . I know for myself from doing this , from doing other things , that I always have these insecurities and these worries about . Even this morning I've noticed that there's a sense of neediness with inside myself . But it's this truth , this going within ourselves , talking about our own truths , which tend to inspire the masses .
Speaker 2I think what you say is true . I think we are all ordinary , but I think we need to accept , rather than understand , that . So most people understand that we're full of insecurities and you and I are intelligent enough and most people listening to this are intelligent enough to know that anyone who says I haven't got any insecurities or fears they're either arrogant or a liar . Right , because all of us , we're a mix of values , insecurities , strengths , weakness . We are human beings , we're not robots . So what we need to do is not just understand that , but accept it and , instead of keep trying to always overcome our weaknesses , actually accept that .
Speaker 2You know what ? I'm not very good at that , but if I need to do that to achieve my goal , I need a work around , and that could be the famous richard Branson thing of hire the most intelligent person at that thing , so you don't have to do it , or it could be okay if I've got to do it , I'm going to do it right , I'll do it to the very best of my ability , and it's having it . I'm going to be consistent , relentless on it until it's done , just to get it out of the way . So if we accept it rather than just understand it , we can then progress . If we keep pushing it down , insecurities will only ever crop up . And to go back to your original question , I think , yes , I think we are ordinary people and in most cases we are capable of extraordinary things yeah , I , yeah , 100% agree .
Speaker 1Just going back to when you were chatting , interviewing the top achievers , what kind of things did they teach you that were common between them all ?
Speaker 2oh , how long have you got , james ?
Speaker 1how long have you got by it I ?
Speaker 2would seriously , and and anyone here listening to this who wants to understand how they can be better at anything , I don't know pick either a hobby or a career , or just give me an example , james , anything off the top of your head .
Speaker 1That's why you're a speaker .
The Path to Top Achievement
Speaker 1Let's use something different . Let's say they want to lose weight . They're a bit overweight .
Speaker 2I know someone who's overweight . Okay , so I'm a chubby guy , right ? So I would never advise anyone on how to lose weight . But if I decided I want to lose weight , what I would now do is I would go and find someone who has done it effortlessly , consistently , kept it off in a way that's joyful , without their diet being torment . So I would find someone who's done exactly what I want to achieve . Not someone who we owe diets , not someone who one done exactly what I want to achieve . Not someone who go diets , not someone who one week says you've got to eat meat . The next week he says you've got to eat tofu and avocado .
Speaker 2I'm going to find someone who has done exactly what I want to do at the very highest level . And that comes from an interview with a globally known top achieving athlete called Chris Akabusi , who says you should look into people , not up to them , and he's very much an advocate of what you were saying , james . We're all just ordinary people , but if you want to be exceptional at something , find somebody who has been exceptional at that thing and ask them to mentor you or find out how they do it . So one of the things I learned is that if you want to be great at something , you should get a mentor and you should stick with that mentor and follow their advice , because many of us I know I was guilty of this when I first got into the world of personal development you read every book , you go on every course , you listen to everybody and from one month to the next , you're going I'm going to do this , I'm going to do that . Actually , it doesn't matter what lots and lots of other people want . What do you want ? What's your thoughts ? Where is it you want to go ? And so go after that .
Speaker 2Don't seek approval and acceptance . Seek trust and respect , and that's something that was like a bullet to my brain . Top achievers don't seek approval and acceptance unless they're actors or musicians . Typically , they seek trust and respect through their actions . So they do consistently what they know is the right thing . They're relentless about it . They're not doing it . They don't write a book and brag about it . They write a book and then on to the next . And okay , that book might bring them fame , it might bring them fortune and weight loss .
Speaker 2Why are you doing it ? If somebody wants to lose weight , are you doing it ? If somebody wants to lose weight , are you doing it so that you can write a book or become a speaker on weight loss ? Or are you doing it because you want to be able to have a conversation with your kids when you're 80 ? That's my motivation . So it's it's looking at the why , the purpose behind what you're doing .
Speaker 2Have you and I know we've spoken about this in the past my friend , which is you've got to have a reason why you want to do this thing that is bigger than your fears and insecurities . And saying that still inspires me . After 23 years of doing this . I am still inspired by that quote . By that quote , you've got to have a reason why you must achieve your goal . That is bigger than any fear , any insecurity , any weakness . You've got that way . You will do it .
Speaker 2And most and here's the glorious thing , james , you , me , uncle tom's dog , everybody listening to this right now you've had a moment in your life hopefully you've had , but most people have had at least one or two moments where , whatever it was that was challenging them , they had to overcome it . They had to do that . They had to go there , do this , achieve this thing . And they did it because that was walking the talk . In that moment , they had a reason bigger than their fears and insecurities . That moment they had a reason bigger than their fears and insecurities . So look into people who have done it . Get a mentor , have a reason why and seek trust and respect rather than acceptance and approval , because so many everywhere you go .
Speaker 2Can I ask you all please , listening to this today just for the rest of today just watch people now . Not in , not in a weird way , right ? Not like James on a Friday night sitting on the street corner rocking on the park bench watching people eat their chips . No , don't do that . If you do that , say James told you to do it , but what I want you to do is just watch people as you go about your business and you'll see most people , and you'll see most people .
Speaker 2They are primarily driven by a need for approval and acceptance . Now , if they accepted it and worked with it , that earns respect , because that's who we are . But because they don't know it , they don't understand it , they don't accept it . Their whole life is just around doing things to be told how good they are and then feeling bad when people don't tell them . That is not a way to live your life and that is not how top achievers think and behave . They just do things to earn trust and respect , to to have relationships with people , to understand people and be understood . They don't do it for glory or to increase your likes , shares and followers on social media . If they did a podcast like this awesome podcast , james they would do it like you are out of service and you . You will see occasionally , some very successful people who I wouldn't call top achievers , who they're really successful , made millions in business and they'll start , for example , a podcast and its only objective is marketing to make more money and you just go . Really , what about genuinely helping people ? So that's something else .
Speaker 2Top achievers go out of their way to bring people with them . You've all heard the metaphor around are you a rhinoceros or are you an elephant ? Get where they get by walking in a straight line and treading on people and rhinoceroses , despite charging at things in a relentless , consistent way , they're a nurturing animal . They bring their family with them and bring people with you . That's what top achievers do , really successful people do .
Speaker 2Another thing , if we've got time , is how they set goals . James and some people listening to this , especially if they're in the world or the circles of personal development and learning and development . You might raise your eyebrows and roll your eyes when I say this , but we're all taught to set realistic and achievable goals , and the buzzword in learning is smart goals . Now , if that is true , if we should be setting realistic and achievable goal , why is it that not a single top achiever I've interviewed and I've interviewed over 230 , how many of them have answered the question ? Not a single one of them have answered the question by saying , oh , I set smart goals or oh , I set realistic and achievable targets . Not one of them . They all to a man .
Speaker 2A woman said things like huge , massive , enormous , colossal dream ambition . Everything was big , exciting , exciting , bold , infusing , inspiring , and most people go . I just want to write a book , I want to lose weight , I want to start a business , I want a qualification , I want to find a partner and start a family . Why don't you write a global bestselling book that makes a difference and changes lives all over the world ? I want to raise money for charity . No , instead of raising money for charity , why don't you organise an event that gets 200 people raising money for charity and make a genuine difference ? Instead of a piss-poor car boot sale , attempt at it . Sorry , was I allowed to say , car boot .
Speaker 2So can you see , it's the way top achievers think and behave . They make it big , bold , exciting . It motivates them . They and and here's the kicker , james , if anyone listening to this is going oh , I was taught and I read a book on smart goals and realistic goals . Here's the rub , right .
Speaker 2Not only do top achievers not set realistic goals , they set massive goals , they set realistic and achievable steps to their massive goal . And I cannot you can probably tell by my voice , I cannot get over my level of frustration Once you become aware of this and accept it rather than understand it . It's like this , this nuclear device going off in your brain , because your brain goes hold on a minute . If I'm setting realistic and achievable goals and I'm getting average at best in life and business and work , if I set a truly massive goal but set steps to that goal that every one of which are both realistic and achievable per se , therefore the massive goal is achievable as long as I'm prepared to graft and the graft word , I call it grunt work . You've got to do the grunt work . Some people , people say I want to start a business , great , what do you want to do ? I want to sell zeppelins . Zeppelins you mean like first world war balloons that got shot down all the time . Yeah , why do you want to do that ?
Speaker 1Oh I love them .
Speaker 2Okay , have you done any research whatsoever to see if anybody wants to buy a zeppelin ? No , I just think it's a great idea . Research whatsoever to see if anybody wants to buy a zeppelin ? No , I just think it's a great idea . We all know how long they're going to last in business , so you've got to do the grunt work , you've got to do the research you've got to . It's no good saying , oh , I'm going to go and run a marathon . No , you've got to go and do training for the marathon , got to learn how to run properly , got to get the right kit . Most people just want the glory without the grunt work . I want to write a book .
Speaker 2And all they do is , for 40 years of their life , talk about the book they're writing . In truth , they've written a chapter , that's what they've done . They write a chapter and then get frustrated and beat themselves up for what they haven't done , rather than get excited over what they have done . And you , james , you've done so much in the world of personal development , like myself , that you and I have got enough scars and wounds and bites and bruises from failures and knockbacks , and that we know that . Actually , if we , instead of just getting excited about writing a book . All we do is , for one year , write one page a day realistic , achievable . One page a day . This time next year we've got a book , a big book . After you write two , you can write two .
Speaker 2And this is what top achievers do . They don't make it complicated , they don't make it over scientific , they don't have processes with long names to make you look good . All they do is keep it simple , realistic , realistic , achievable . And if you look at all the things you've got to do to your massive goal and look at every single thing and by itself each one is realistic and achievable there's nothing to fear . Therefore , your insecurities can't crop up and get in your way and stop you . Anytime our insecurities get in the way , it's because it's not being managed in a way that's congruent with who we really are . We're trying to fight who we are .
Speaker 2So by doing realistic and achievable , everything just gets sorted . It's just like this beautiful tapestry that get . It gets put together and woven and most people are just trying to buy a piece of cloth off a market stall and hoping that's their tapestry , when no , you've got to make it , you've got to do the grunt work , you've got to be relentless , you've got to be consistent . I'm not telling people to overwork and burn out and become depressed . I'm not . What I'm asking you to do is get so excited you can't wait to do it . Have a goal that is so inspiring to you . But don't just get high on the euphoria , adrenaline and dreams . Do the grunt work Every day . Do a little bit that takes you closer to your goal . And this time next year , let's have a party .
Speaker 1Yeah , I like it . So just for the listeners , for the people out there who perhaps are lost , don't really know what they want to do , or they don't have a clue at all , what would you suggest them to do first ?
Speaker 2that is one of the best questions you could possibly ask me , right , because in my talks and I talk to young people in education , I talk to chief execs and I talk to big conferences and I all the time get people coming to me say , what do you do if you haven't got a goal and you don't know what you want ? I ask them a question and the question okay , pretend , james , humor me right , because I don't think I've done this with you ever before so humor me .
Speaker 1Look , let's roll . Baby , play baby . I'm a schoolboy . Okay , you are a schoolboy .
Speaker 2Are we all Okay ? So you're going to come up to me and you're going to ask that question . Go for it .
Finding Your Life's Purpose Through Action
Speaker 1David , I loved your talk , but I don't have a goal . I don't know what I want to do . What can you suggest that I do ?
Speaker 2Great , james . Thank you for being courageous enough to ask that question , because it shows you're already thinking about it , which is more than most people do . So , first of all , good on you . The question is this is it true that you have not got a clue and you really haven't got a scooby-doo what you want to do ? Or is it true that you've probably got lots of ideas , but you're afraid to have a go at any of them in case it's the wrong thing , which is true ?
Speaker 1I would probably suggest that I have lots of ideas , but I'm afraid to take that step .
Speaker 2In that case , you've just put yourself in the top 2% to 3% of people for emotional intelligence , because what you've just identified is that hardly anyone , hardly anybody , hasn't got a clue what they want . We all have dreams , goals , ambitions . It's just that what we do is that we get overwhelmed with this plethora , this veritable buffet of opportunity , and we're scared to have a go at any of them in case it's the wrong thing , and we look stupid if we fail . So first of all , accept that it's not true that you don't know . You do know . The problem is more than most people . You've got loads of ideas . So now what we need to do is this Especially in Great Britain and the Western world , most of us will procrastinate on making a decision . As which one to do . That procrastination over time , especially , tell me something that this school boy , james , really would like to do .
Speaker 1One thing as an example I would love to do to be to that first podcast to go out worldwide , globally , and to impact hundreds of thousands of men's lives , maybe even millions , if I think a big goal .
Speaker 2To someone like that school boy who's got this massive goal and has just had me come in convincing him that he should set this massive goal , and this school boy does not know where to start . That's overwhelming , causes fear , stress , anxiety rather than excitement , and so what I need to do now is say to this schoolboy the following james , what you've got to do now , my friend , is write down out of all of these ideas you've got two or three of them that you think you could do every day for the rest of your life and never see , never get tired of sick or tired of doing it . And and if you write three of these things down , I want you to look into , read about them , watch videos about it , maybe go and speak to people who've already done each of these three things and then , out of them , pick the one you're doing first . This is critical . You're not saying no to any of the others . You're saying not yet because most people don't want to let go of all the ideas , because they've got great ideas . They're saying you're not saying no , you're saying not yet , and then you go with that one thing and maybe it's for you , it's that podcast and you go I'm going to give this everything I've got for a few months really drill down , understand it , research it . I'm not just I'm going to get some experience in it , I'm actually going to look into how people start podcasts . I'm maybe going to invest in some coaching on it or take a course on it . Or I'm going to ask someone who is a really successful not an average really successful podcaster if I can go and shadow them and get mentored by them .
Speaker 2And in those first three or four months I'm going to get everything I need to know so that on x date in the future I can say category either a I don't want this and you let it go or b yeah , this is my thing , I going for it , I'm going rhino on this and if it's no , let it go . All you do is , instead of crying about it , you go to the next thing that you had on your list out of those top three and you do that for a few months . What you're doing is twofold . Number one eventually you're going to find the thing that's right for you . You'll find that sweet spot and you'll go for it .
Speaker 2But more importantly than that , james , is that we're not procrastinating . We're not filling our heads full of fear and failure . All we're doing is taking pragmatic action and steps towards the goal . So , rather than be overwhelmed of I'm scared to do anything in case it's the wrong thing , you're immediately switching the psychology to proactive , grunt work . So that would be my advice to anyone who says I haven't got a Scooby-Doo .
Speaker 2Because in truth , out of the 1.2 or more million human beings I've spoken to , I've probably had a couple of thousand people come up to me over the years and say I haven't got a clue what I want to do . And out of those a fraction of them , I could probably count on 10 fingers the number of people out of 1.2 million who genuinely haven't got a clue or will say they haven't got a clue . And those people I go wow , it must be so cool to be so peaceful and free of stress . But if they say , but , dave , I still want a massive goal , I go okay , then what do you like doing ? What do you love doing ? What excites you ? And then look at things in that way to find out what they could look into .
Speaker 1So there's always a way of helping people , but the truth of it is that hardly anyone genuinely doesn't know what they want to do I can vouch for that because , obviously , knowing you for quite a few years , I've bounced from one thing to another thing and I always found it so hard to let some of this stuff go , because we go into this personal development journey and you want to do everything . Trying everything is too overwhelming . So it's and it's . I've always found it hard to let go of things . I would love to do that , I'd love to do this . I'm like the they call it the shiny thing syndrome .
Speaker 1Yeah , where you see something shining , you're like you know any kind of thing . Yeah , I bought , I mean , then started doing podcasts and having this idea the last probably two or three years , with a lot of men's work , I've linked the two together and it seems to get in quite smoothly , kind of thing . And this realization that , yes , this is the thing that I can do , and then , as you would know and probably mentioned this , from these one things that you do , other things come off . So speaking opportunities , books , courses , and it's about focusing on the one thing first and then expanding up yeah , and it all comes down to the doing , not the dreaming about it .
Speaker 2You know there's a bill . Phillips was an american entrepreneur in the health and fitness industry and he said stop talking about it , stop dreaming about it . You're going to be judged on what you do do something . Yes , you can the talk , you can dream the dream , but you'll only ever be remembered for what you do . And forgive me if this offends anybody , but there are people out there who think all you've got to do is sit on a hill with your legs crossed , going on desiring things , and the world's going to come to you . I haven't interviewed a single top achiever yet that does that . They make a plan , get excited and go for it .
Speaker 1Even the law of attraction . The word attraction is I think it's the last few letters it's action .
Speaker 2Oh , yeah , never thought of that yeah , that's a big one .
Speaker 1Anybody who likes following the law of attraction , which I do myself . There's this idea that within law of attraction is the word action you're going to take action to be able to start attracting it . Yeah , say , for example , they start to achieve stuff , they start to set , they set a goal , they start to take steps , they start to see progress and then suddenly they're hit by a setback . How would you navigate that personally ?
Speaker 2oh , great question oh , you're on fire today , mate . Good question . Okay , so you've started taking action on your big goal and then something , because it happens , something just wipes the floor and I don't know . Maybe you set a goal to start a business and the business fails for some reason , or you're distracted because of a family emergency , so the business fails and that can be devastating , especially because this podcast is predominantly aimed at men , to men , because men like to be the provider , they're the hunter-gatherer , they're psychologically speaking .
Speaker 2Even though we're weirdos and incompetent most of us , we like to think we should have the answer , we should be able to fix things . Incompetent most of us , we like to think we should have the answer , we should be able to fix things , and the truth is that there are moments in life where it's going to throw you a sideball , a curveball in baseball , as they say . There's a two and a half to three percent rule in positive psychology which was proven by positive psychologist dr andy kobe and I've proven it in my research as well and it was first invented . He never did any research , he just came up with a figure . Positive psychology happened to prove it to be true . Scott Alexander in his book Rhinoceros Success , he suggests , when I interviewed him , that there's about 3% of the population who see what they want , go for it , and they outachieve everybody else . 97% of people just keep plodding , failing and then using that as a reason not to set more goals and have another go . And so the truth is that 3% of the time we are truly outstanding All of us 3% of our lives we do at the very highest level . We're awesome , we're on fire , we're in the flow , the zone , and 97% of the time we accept mediocrity and failure .
Speaker 2Let me say that again 97% of the time we accept not life forcing it on us we accept mediocrity and failure . Here's the truth 3% of our lives statistically 2.5% to 3% of our lives bad things are going to happen . In every 100 days , there's going to be between two and three bad days . Life does that . Businesses are going to fail , books are not going to get written , people get ill , people die . You're going to tread on the hamster , crash the car , your partners are going to fall out with you , your mates are going to fall out with you down the pub and you're going to get a tax invoice that you weren't expecting . Bad things happen . That is life , but only 2.5% to 3% of the time . The rest of the time we're choosing Now gone on this long monologue narrative there about good and bad things happening .
Speaker 2You specifically asked me how do you cope with the failures ? For a man , that is difficult . But at the risk of sounding like a 1970s personal development classic book , what I see in top achievers is that their pursuit of the outcome is not necessarily the outcome , is not necessarily the goal . The goal is to have as much fun as they can in the process and they almost take the pressure off themselves to achieve . Because they've set a goal so colossal , so massive , most people are expecting them to fail anyway . Most people expect people who set massive goals to fail . So when someone does achieve something big , it's wow , whoa , wow , you're good . But because they've achieved big , the next time they fail they tend not to go . Eh , you see , told you you'd fail because they class that person as a top achiever .
Embracing Failure for Growth
Speaker 2All my life , up until the age of 30 , people held me back , put me down , told me I was useless . Told me I was thick . Told me I was stupid . Told me I shouldn't apply to college . Told me I could never start a business . When I started a business , I overheard two . I thought friends and colleagues tell me the business won't last a year . I'll give it 10 months tops I . Everybody in my life apart from my mum and dad , dissed me and because of that , up until the age of 30 , that's what happened happened . I believed it to be true . What is true ? What is true is that since the age of 30 , I've failed gloriously many times , but I've also become an international professional speaker , one of the busiest people in the country at doing that . I've written 30 books , after being told by an English teacher that I'd never write a book , five of them Amazon subject number ones . I've raised over a million pounds , breaking four charity fundraising records in the process , giving over 4,000 people experiences of a lifetime . I could keep going on and on . With the things that have happened . I've shared my goal setting process with people who have gone on to be Amazon number one bestselling authors , millionaires in business , sporting champions , charity fundraising rock stars , people who have quadrupled their business and , by the way , I'm not talking about someone starting in a garage is now number two in Europe quadrupled their workforce , quadrupled their sales , quadrupled their profits and putting the massive goals down to part of . These are things that are true , and yet now people identify those things with me rather than the failures . So it is a difficult thing to do for the first time , but if people listening to this can begin to think about failure differently , it's not the end , it's just a learning .
Speaker 2We are going to fail , deal with it . Does that mean , therefore , you shouldn't do anything in case you fail ? Does that mean , therefore , you shouldn't do anything in case you fail ? No , you should be relentless . We are here to evolve , not revolve . We're not here to keep going around in circles chasing our tail , bitching and whinging and moaning about everything in life holding us back and us holding us back .
Speaker 2We will , because we're pathetic , we're insecure and we like people to like us . So we will bitch wh , whinge and moan bitch witch . What does that mean ? I don't know . Bitch , whinge and moan . We will do that . But as well as doing that , keep having a go . That's why we're here . That's why we exist as a species to evolve , to grow . We are here to set big goals . We are going to fail occasionally , but here's the rub , james . Do you think people listening to this and it's a simple question would rather consistently achieve mediocrity and not follow their dreams and never fail . Or would they dare risk occasionally tripping , stumbling , falling , failing , but achieve big from time to time . What would most people want to do more ?
Speaker 1Oh , I don't know . For me personally it's the big dream , the massive dream . But then there are some people that I see who are just quite happily fumbling through life , but then there's others who I know from personal experience , want big things . As of yesterday , I watched a documentary and the guy said about failing forward towards your intention .
Speaker 2Yeah , I like that , I like that .
Speaker 1And it just clicked and it was like whoa , that was good . So basically , you fail towards your goals rather than against your goals .
Speaker 2Also , if we're afraid of failure because of people not liking us or laughing at us , maybe we need better people around us . Because if you start hanging around with people who succeed at stuff and consistently hang around with them , become friends with these people , earn their trust and respect the way you trust and respect them , they won't let you get down about failure . They'll just go . And what are you going to do about it Instead of going ? Oh , nevermind , James , we thought you wouldn't succeed . Why are we still hanging around with these people ? Sometimes we do have to let people go , and I don't mean cast them off , never speak to them again . I just mean don't let them influence who you are and what you do . I am privileged that in my phone , because of all the interviews I've done with top achievers , I can pick up the phone to world champions of sport , neuroscientists , neuropsychologists . I can pick up the phone If I've got a question about business , I can pick up the phone . Can pick up the phone if I've got a question about business . I can pick up the phone to multi-millionaires , serial entrepreneurs , and go can you help me with this steve ? Can you help me with this jules ? And they'll go . Really , don't really . And they will not let me wallow . They will pick me up , dust me down and go have another . Go , boy . And and this links beautifully , james , into the two things that top achievers run towards that most people run away from and I don't know if you remember me saying these before , but top achievers run towards and most people run away from , support and accountability . You have been on a relentless journey of personal development and growth . Most people aren't brave enough to do that . They're terrified of learning about themselves . You're not . Most people are terrified to say I need support , I need help , because it's not in the british psyche . We're supposed to be stiff upper lip . You should know this . Crack on . No , we're human beings . Top achievers ask for help , but they ask for the right help at the right level . They don't go to average people or read averagely written books . They go to top achievers for their information . So they are big enough and honest enough to know I need help . Occasionally , famously , richard Branson surrounds himself with people who are brilliant at the stuff he doesn't know how to do . But then they are also fearless about accountability . And most men and notice what I said there women are better at this than men . Most men are terrified of accountability in case it shows who they are , if in case it highlights the fact that they're a bit insecure and a bit of a coward . And so we avoid accountability through machismo , watchness , trying to show who we are as men when in actual fact , underneath again , oh , nobody likes me really . I'm just going to have to go to the gym and make myself look hench just to appear like a man , and there's nothing wrong with that , by the way . But nothing wrong with going to have to go to the gym and make myself look hench just to appear like a man and there's nothing wrong with that , by the way . Nothing wrong with going to the gym , by the way . Doing it for approval is ridiculous .
Speaker 2Seek accountability . Get people who you trust and respect to look you in the eye on a regular basis and go okay , well done , you're doing that . I'm going to support you in that . Brilliant , this bit . What's going on here ? Then , if you can get a little peer group of people around you I call them a mastermind group , a little group of people who are so tight with you by that I mean you're fearless in helping each other with support and accountability . Let's just say , james , you and I are in this mastermind group . Let's just say one day I say , oh no , I haven't done what I said I'd do this month towards my massive goal . It's been a bit busy .
Speaker 1I'd stop . What am I going to say ? I'm going to say what's the real reason and I'm going to look deeper into that real reason . And I'm going to look deeper into that reasoning , because this reasoning is stopping you from progressing and quite right too .
Speaker 2Thank you , that's exactly what I would need . I would need . What I would not need is someone to go . Oh , never mind , let me tell you about my week . What I need is someone like that , james to go . Really , dave , really sorry , I thought you were better than that and make me feel appropriately awkward .
Speaker 2And I'm not talking about bullying . I'm saying all we need sometimes is someone just to give us a little around the face and say come on back on track now , let's do this , and then support them in doing that , and that's the important thing . It's not about bullying . It's not about trying to be better or get one up my chip on your main . It's about if you and I in this group and I'm not failing you should be so good a friend to me , you don't let me fail . It should be that . No , you're better than this . Come on .
Speaker 2And if what you said earlier , if one of those cataclysmic experiences in life means I do fail at something , you don't laugh . You don't say they're there , you just say okay . How are you bouncing back from this , dave ? What are you going to do ? How are you responding ? You are there , you just say okay . How are you bouncing back from this . Dave , what are you going to do ? How are you responding ? You should be so good a friend . You're prepared for me not to like you for a couple of hours . That's how good .
Speaker 2I call it a slap in a velvet glove . Sometimes we all need a punch in the face or a high five in the face by someone wearing a velvet glove . I am so good a friend to you . I'm having you now . No , not acceptable . James . You said you would do this . How are you going to achieve your goal one year from now if you haven't done this ? Let's look at this together . Let's sort this . That's what a top achiever would do surround themselves with people who are no fools . But you've got to be prepared to take it and give it .
Speaker 2Just so the audience knows , I have been on that receiving end with David in the past , and the only reason I do that is because I know how it's helped me in the past .
Speaker 1When I stopped .
Speaker 2I've still got I've got to be very careful how I say this because I've still got some friends who are not of this mindset and it's difficult sometimes to be around them , difficult , but they are good people , they're nice people and they're still my friends and always will be been best man to a couple of them . And then there are others . There are people who I would I would walk through walls for them and I know I would walk through walls for them and I know they would walk through walls for me . We need to be careful who we hang around with .
Speaker 1This leads on quite nicely ,
Understanding the Healthy Man Mindset
Speaker 1actually . This is where now the conversation turns a little bit to a bit more heart to heart . What do you personally define as a healthy man ?
Speaker 2Wow . A healthy man in my head is someone who is sincerely happy , not pretending to be , is fearless in both positive and negative situations , not just fearless in saying life's great , fearless in saying life's bad , it's okay to talk , it's okay not to be okay , etc . I think a healthy man is someone who doesn't overeat like I do . I think a healthy man is someone who treats people with respect unless they show you they don't deserve it otherwise . And I think a healthy man today is okay with difference . And a healthy man doesn't necessarily think he's better than anybody else , but also doesn't think he's less than anybody else . I've never been asked that I had to think about that .
Speaker 1I've never been asked that before more I think I see you personally as a very healthy man in that respect . You're there of service . You're there , you help people , you're truly yourself to the people . You come from a place of the heart wanting to help , and I feel as though a healthy man nowadays is somebody who , as you said , takes action but is also very grounded in what they're doing , knows what they want to do , speaks from the heart , allows himself to go into their heart , to express their emotions , because I think in the past men have been at a point where they just the old-fashioned man struggles to speak their own minds , their own emotions , and quite often almost runs over people . Sometimes , and I think with today's society , things are changing and so we need to help men , especially not all men , but some men to navigate the current life .
Speaker 2You used a word there that I love and that it's the ability to express yourself appropriately in all situations . That's a healthy amount . So being able to express yourself when you're angry , without your anger negatively impacting other people or a situation or a room . Being able to express yourself when you're joyful and blissfully happy . Able to express yourself when you're joyful and blissfully happy . Being able to express yourself when you're scared because you're in a situation you don't understand or are genuinely scared of , and being able to express yourself sincerely , congruently and authentically . Yeah , I like that word , james .
Speaker 1Also , you mentioned earlier about acceptance of the things , of perhaps things which kind of you see as negative .
Speaker 2so acceptance of insecurities , acceptance of our own feelings , because , like you said before , if you can accept them you can then almost bring them in , love them and almost transform the energy into something a bit more positive there's yeah , because if you accept your weaker sides , your excuses , insecurities , failures , foibles , if you accept that that is part of who you really are as a human being , rather than push them down and try and all the time try and solve them , cure them , you know what ? Maybe sometimes we need to accept that's who we are and we can live with it , because if you just understand it , you're at the whim of that thing controlling you . Actually get on a personal note , right , those who know me . Or if you ever get to see a picture , you'll say I'm a chunky little guy , I'm a chunky guy , I'm a sphere basically . Now , I used to be so devastatingly insecure about that and all it would need I could put on a good show , pretend I'm confident , but if someone had a go at me for being overweight , I would crumble inside . That's not authentic . Now what I've learned is okay , yeah , I , I want to do something about this , but I am doing it for me , not for other people . I'm doing it for me and my son , not for other people . So I've accepted that over the years and so if people ever do and they don't necessarily the occasional troll on social media , but apart from that , if anyone has a go at me now .
Speaker 2I just go what a child , you poor little child . Really , what they're doing is they're pointing out something so obvious to me . You know , if someone is afraid , telling them they're a coward , why should that upset them ? Because if it's true , you go , yeah . And it's like me saying to you thick james , you healthy person , everybody's got something . But it would . It would just like you say , dave , you've got ridiculously black hair for a man of your age . Why aren't you gray ?
Speaker 2If people say to me , dave , you , yeah , what's your point in the making ? What point are you making here other than hurling stick to the playground here ? Grow up . I haven't got the crayons or the inclination or the time to entertain you . Go away , little person . So your insecurities are who you are . So are your values . If your insecurities are around a need for acceptance , do something about it . Hang around with people who accept you . Stop trying to win approval and acceptance from people who I nearly said something really naughty there who don't get you , will never get you . Stop trying to be part of a team that doesn't want you . Find a team that wants you to play for them .
Speaker 1See , that just rings a bell . I just read a chapter in a book , the Way of the Superior man , and in one of the chapters it mentions about finds a woman or a partner in the respect if women listen to this as well who accepts you and almost pursues you , rather than you pursuing them and them not pursuing you . So pursue people who pursue you and you pursue them , rather than finding people who you want but they're running the other way . And this goes into account of relationships , friendships , anything , any relationship .
Speaker 2I worked with a guy who I think Sanjay Shah , a very good friend of mine , world authority on the subject of emotional intelligence , and I saw him work with a woman once who was really upset because she couldn't find a man and he was asking her how it made her feel . She was going , oh , upset and needy and angry . And the angrier she got and he helped her get angry . He said so what do you think men look for ? And she was going kindness , loving . And he says and do you feel kindness and loving ? She says no , I feel angry , says how is that attractive to someone ?
Speaker 2And it was just like someone had switched on this light bulb in her head . She went oh , my god , everything I'm doing is repelling the kind of person I want . And he helped her let go of , not push down , that anger and that resentment because she'd been dumped on badly by men idiot men in the past . Then he helped her let go of that and just be loving , kind , and her features in her face softened , her complexion shone and I'm talking within the space of an hour and she just had been freed of this prison of rage and resentment because she realized she was angry with herself rather than men , and I think it's it can be liberating , it can be truly liberating .
Contacting David Heiner
Speaker 1Nice , but anybody wanted to get in contact with you . How can they find you and what are your contact details ?
Speaker 2If they get my name spelt right , I'm over the internet like a rash . So it's David Heiner . Heiner is H-Y-N-E-R . Linkedin , youtube , facebook , blah , blah , blah . I'm over it like a rash . You'll find me . Davidheinercom is my speaker website . David Heiner Thank you very much , david . My pleasure , james , lovely chatting to you . David Heiner you and yourself .
