Just For The Day
Just For The Day
#22 - September 4, 2025 - Cluttered Spirits
Jay and Diane read the NA daily reader and comment on how making amends clears away the clutter that weighs down our spirits and limits our freedom in recovery.
They compare how we trip over triggers (unresolved issues) and maintain cleanliness while still living life with the tendency to tidy, deep clean, or obsessively clean our homes.
Just for today, clear away what's cluttering your spirit by making the amends you owe.
Jay and Diane's Just For The Day podcast is not affiliated with, endorsed by, or sponsored by Just for Today, any 12-Step program, or any other recovery-based product or organization. They should not replace your regular group or sponsor meetings.
The views expressed are solely those of the hosts and guests. Take what you like and leave the rest.
Welcome back to another episode of Just for the Day. I'm Jay and I'm a recovering addict.
Speaker 2:I'm Diane and I'm codependent. Today is September 4th.
Speaker 1:Cluttered spirits.
Speaker 2:Mmm.
Speaker 1:Go ahead.
Speaker 2:We try to remember that when we make amends, we are doing it for ourselves.
Speaker 1:As long as we still owe amends. Our spirits are cluttered with things we don't need. We're carrying the extra load of an apology owed, a resentment held or unexpressed remorse. It's like having a messy house. We could leave so we don't have to see the mess, or maybe just step over the piles of debris and pretend they aren't there. But ignoring the disorder won't make it disappear In the end. The dirty dishes, the crumb-filled carpet and the overflowing waste baskets are still there waiting to be cleaned up.
Speaker 2:A cluttered spirit is just as hard to live with as a messy home. We always seem to be tripping over yesterday's leavings. Every time we turn around and try to go somewhere, there is something blocking our path. The more we neglect our responsibility to make amends, the more cluttered our spirits become. And we can't even hire someone to clean up we have to do the work ourselves.
Speaker 1:We gain a deep sense of satisfaction from making our own amends. Just as we would feel after we've cleaned our homes and have time to enjoy a bit of sunshine through sparkling windows, so will our spirits rejoice at our freedom to truly enjoy our recovery. And once the big mess is cleaned up, all we have to do is pick up after ourselves as we go along.
Speaker 2:Just for today, I will clear away what's cluttering my spirit by making the amends I owe.
Speaker 1:It's a great analogy.
Speaker 2:It is a great analogy. It reminds me of the saying cleanliness is next to godliness. That's the saying.
Speaker 1:That's right. One of the things I like about this analogy with the house is, you know, we habituate to what we tolerate and so, as you willingly live in a dirty house, you stop seeing the piles and then you stop noticing how limited you are, how you have less room to walk in the hallways and less space to sit and enjoy and less areas to cook in right as it all infringes on you but you stop seeing it because you habituate to it. And our, our internal house is no different.
Speaker 2:It's taking up space, it it's carrying an extra load, and I like how that's how that's phrased, and yet we don't notice it it reminds me of a roommate I had in college and she was such a slob and one day we were kind of talking about her need to clean up after herself more and she mentioned that the previous home she'd lived in it was college right She'd lived with three guys and she remembers them specifically making messes and just throwing pizza boxes over top of the messes, Like they'd spill something and instead of taking the time to mop it up, they'd just throw a pizza box on it and that was kind of the thing that she lived in and I remember thinking that's disgusting, You're disgusting and totally unacceptable, right? And I wonder how many times in our life the clutter that we're gaining in our spirit is that messy?
Speaker 2:yeah that we're just like banded that thing, throw that pizza box on it because I don't want to see it, but I also don't want to go through the effort of cleaning it up.
Speaker 1:All the time, All the freaking time, and it's hard to see it. Just like you know, we would, we would, we would easily judge those people for making those messes and not cleaning them up. And yet those people don't see it. They literally don't see it. We have this thing with our daughter. She knows her room's messy but she doesn't see it.
Speaker 2:She sits in it and and just doesn't care, and then when we make her deep clean it afterwards she's like oh, yeah, wow, that was really dirty. It was really dirty.
Speaker 1:I didn't even realize how dirty that was, and we're like we all knew how dirty that was right, but the person in the moment doesn't, and to think our internal world is any different would be silly. So I really like that, uh, I like the way that that is phrased and I like that. I'm going to think on that analogy is because here's the thing you're blind to it. So how do you know when you've got stuff to clean up, how do you know?
Speaker 2:When you get stuck in it, when you trip over it. When something random triggers you and your response is way over the top. You've tripped over something.
Speaker 1:Or drastically different or something dysfunctional, to retreat or to hide? Yeah, yeah, I like that description. When you trip over it, you'll know by tripping, because you inevitably will Mm-hmm, yeah, and that tripping should be evidence to say I haven't cleaned something up. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I need to clean something up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hmm, it's interesting.
Speaker 2:It's interesting. On the other hand, there are some people who are very OCD and their house is immaculate like a museum, and they keep it clean because that's how they control their environment.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:And I wonder if there's a parallel to the spiritual. Is there a parallel for that to the spiritual?
Speaker 1:no-transcript. They leave it in pristine condition to not touch it. They get upset when people come over and mess things up and they're dysregulated when it doesn't go their way. So their interactions with other people are interfered with because, of the severe nature of control they have. They're tight and rigid around it.
Speaker 2:Right. So they're keeping order, but they're keeping order at the expense of life, that's right. Okay.
Speaker 1:They're living a lesser existence because everything needs to be perfect.
Speaker 2:And they're still not addressing the underlying stuff. They're just putting a shiny coat of paint over rotten wood.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because life is messy. I think it goes back to this. There's a second thing this is focusing on is this last sentence I really love in the last paragraph, where it says all we have to do is pick up after ourselves as we go along, right? The person who is OCD is not doing it. As they go along, they're spending all their time and energy to control it so that it stays in perfection, because they're not dealing with the underlying issues.
Speaker 2:Right, they don't want to move that hand towel because they like it where it is, so they don't want to see what's around it, or they don't want other people to touch it.
Speaker 1:Or they're obsessing all their time on it, rather than spending time with their family and doing things and building the relationships that really bring value because the house is just going to get messy.
Speaker 1:So there's a balance both ways, and I like this idea. Where the proper balance seems to be is well, I'm not going to neglect it, but I'm not also going to obsess over it, I'm simply going to address it as I go along, I'm going to pick it up. Is that making sense? And that's a tenth step. That's effectively the tenth step Making your daily amends, taking a daily inventory and making a daily amends.
Speaker 2:I like that. It says that our amends are for ourselves. We think about the benefit that comes from the interactions right when we resolve issues of ways that we've offended people.
Speaker 2:And we like to think of that as the healed relationships that come with it. Um, and maybe, maybe definitely there's healed relationships when you're able to take ownership of the ways that you've hurt people, but if the focus is just on that person and I just don't want that person to hate me, so I want to apologize for this it's almost like the deep clean you do before company comes over. That's not really a deep clean, right. It was like let's tidy up the house before company comes, so it looks like everything is good. Right, where you have to also own the fact that it's for me, and it doesn't matter if they come in and judge my house.
Speaker 2:I need to sort things out, yeah, and sometimes I mean, when I saw cluttered spirits, the first thing I thought of was cluttered closets, and if you really want to clean a closet, everything needs to come out of the closet and you need to kind of put it into piles and decide what's gonna stay, what's gonna go. And, okay, now let's take all of these, these linens, and organize them into sizes or colors or whatever. Like you have to actually take everything out to clean it and organize and decide what's going to stay and what's going to go, and that process is a messy process and so if company comes over when I'm doing that process, it's not very pretty, it's very messy. And yet the same kind of is true with our amends that as we're making our amends, it's not going to be flawless, it's not going to be perfect, and we need to recognize that. That's okay. If someone's going to come and see us in the process of organizing our spirits, they're going to see a little bit of messy and that's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm kind of conflicted on this one, because I agree with everything you just said, that we basically need to accept the fact that it's going to be messy and others are going to judge us, and that's okay. There's another aspect of this the other person is important because, while, at the same time, another's perspective doesn't matter because it's not their house, it's not their amends. I like that point that you're highlighting that it's for it's not their house, it's not their amends. I like that point that you're highlighting that it's for it's for you and not them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oftentimes they're the trigger, the other person. They may not be responding to the mess that gives you clarity on what it is but they're definitely pointing it out. And and a lot of the time in my life you know, and a lot of the time in my life you know, for example, in our relationship I have greatly benefited from watching your reaction to my clutter, not because your reaction told me what it was, but your reaction pointed me in the direction of areas I need to improve, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Okay, does it make any sense? Do you have an example?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so like you know the ways in which I would make you feel or treat you, sometimes in the past I've been dismissive of your feelings. You know you may not have pointed to that directly, but your reaction to that that it was hurtful to you showed me that I needed to work on something. And then I had to do the work to dig underneath the surface and say, well, hold on a second. I'm trying to make her feel bad. Because I feel bad. I feel like I'm out of control.
Speaker 1:And by making her feel bad, I get a little sense of oh, I'm manipulating her, so I get control right. You're pointing to it and you're reacting to it, to the clutter in my spirit, at the damage I guess that's causing upon. You Doesn't tell me what it is, it just points me in the direction. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Well, it also is very unproductive. It's like telling somebody that they're doing something wrong when they're not ready to hear that they're doing something wrong. Right, people need to figure out. You can see people who are new in the program and you can see them making mistakes we've already made, trying to control things in ways that we know they can't control things, yeah, and you can tell them that. You can say that's not going to help you, it won't matter, they don't. They don't know, they don't care. They have to experience it?
Speaker 1:Well, probably too, because they don't the person who is saying it, if it's not the if it's not the person who's doing it. You'd think you understand, but you don't. You actually don't have any idea what's going on. Assumes that you know the person well enough to tell them exactly what to do, and then if they do it and succeed, well, it's your success, it's not theirs. And if they do it and fail, then they pay the price, not you.
Speaker 1:So, like your advice is not helpful, and so a lot of time we give advice and make suggestions on improvements, and yet we don't understand why a person is behaving the way they do on improvements, and yet we don't understand why a person's behaving the way they do you know, I guess that's my point is is that the other person? I'm conflicted on it because the other person is important in the sense that they are receiving the damage partly from I'm receiving it, but they're also receiving the damage from my cluttered spirit. But that, but they in no way can tell me what it is.
Speaker 2:I have to do the personal work yeah, you have to identify it and acknowledge it and figure out how to fix it.
Speaker 1:But a person can use the damage done to others as an indicator of where to look, and that was my point is that I've benefited significantly from making your, making my relationship with you a priority, because as I cause damage to you, I can see how I can improve as a person.
Speaker 2:And then if.
Speaker 1:I'm willing to look at that I actually become a much better and happier being.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:And I essentially used you as a canary, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm To tell me yes.
Speaker 1:When it's wrong, when it's off base.
Speaker 2:When it's time to get out of the mine yeah.
Speaker 1:But to do the work.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Right, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it totally does. I also like I think that there's other value in using this analogy. We've talked about before, when someone is in the throes of addiction, how they tend to let things slide in their hygiene and in their cleanliness. Right, actually, physically, in their hygiene and cleanliness, things start to slide. So you know, using the example of dirty dishes, crumb filled carpet, overflowing wastebaskets waiting to be cleaned up, and I think that there is a direct correlation as well to how deep into our addictions we are and how overflowing our waste baskets are yeah that, as we are blinded by our obsession we don't you mentioned before.
Speaker 2:We walk right by the piles we don't notice them. They're, they're growing and other people can still see them, just like other people can see an addict and kind of judge their hygiene you can kind of see that right, yeah, and then, as people start to clean up their life, you can also see them starting to take better care of themselves and you started contributing more around the home and helping with cleaning the house and that kind of thing as well and so definitely I can actually visualize the changes that take place in your home as you start to get recovery right in the cleanliness of your home in the cleanliness of yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that if you're in tune with it, you can also see the changes in the soul and in the spirit of somebody as well.
Speaker 1:You know this is also bringing up for me this We've used I don't know if our audience has heard this before they will as we talk about the backyard analogy right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:We've talked about the shed where you put things you don't want people to see.
Speaker 2:Right. Outline the backyard analogy first, before you get into the shed.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I don't want to talk about the details because they'll come up later with boundaries, but the more important piece is that you know each of us has these elements to our internal property, which is us. One of those is a shed where you put things so other people don't look at, but you also don't look at, and those things somewhat affect your life, unconsciously, right, the things that you're hiding from yourself and from others. This is another form of that. There is a, there is a clutter to your home that you're not hiding but you've habituated to so you're not seeing.
Speaker 2:Do you see the difference?
Speaker 1:That's not the same as things, although they're both damaging. So there are things that you are explicitly hiding and avoiding and other things that you've just gotten used to. Right that you're not noticing tripping over.
Speaker 2:Right Refusing to deal with. Well, and there's a refining process too. I remember when we first got married that you would say that you cleaned the house and I'd look around and be like the house is filthy. You tidied, you picked up garbage that didn't belong where. You picked up dishes, you picked up clothes, but stuff was still dirty. The walls needed to be wiped down or the table or countertop needed to be wiped, or the dishes were just piled in the sink, or the table or countertop needed to be wiped, or the dishes were just piled in the sink. And I remember a friend of mine who tried having she tried paying a cleaning service to come into her house and she kind of hovered over them and watched them for the hour that they worked during their trial and then she was just like they didn't clean to my standard. I can't work, I can't have them come and I'm like the goal is for them to alleviate your extra stress right.
Speaker 2:And one of the things that I learned with you was that if I wanted you to help clean, I had to lower my expectations of what the clean was going to look like.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:And if I was going to hold you to my expectations, what was going to end up happening is I was going to end up having to do everything, and I think that there's an element, just like when you're training kids on how to make their bed and clean their bedroom room whatever you, you need these lower expectations, but then, as you're working, as you continue doing it and practicing it, there's a refining process where now our kids know how to clean mirrors and they know how to wipe down the door handles and the baseboards and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:It's taken a long time but they've grown that skill because we started small.
Speaker 2:Right and I think it's true as well in program, and I think it's important for codependents to recognize as well that you can't hold your addict to the standard of having what is it? The white glove, cleanliness that if your addict is just not partaking in substances, what a great first step. Congratulate them, support them, be proud of them if they're attending meetings. There's the next step. Good for them, give them like, but don't be upset because they lose their temper or they still have triggers or whatever. You know what I'm saying yeah, there's a.
Speaker 1:That's how the program works, right, right Is. You come to the program, you find a home group and they celebrate the week that you got, they celebrate the day. Sometimes they celebrate that you came to a meeting even though you were you were drunk.
Speaker 2:Right, so the support group is really good at that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I'm saying, but I think the spouses and the parents also need to do that, that's what I was saying is that the that's how the program proceeds. It's no wonder that should proceed in the home as well, and a codependent can do that. The codependent should all, and so should the addict, but both people should also do that for themselves. Like you know, we often. We often require too much of ourselves, too much progress, and we need to be, we need to be satisfied with less.
Speaker 2:It's a gentle program.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and there's also the aspect of not relying on the external validation. You need to be able to praise yourself for the little steps you've done. If you can hold your temper just a little bit longer than you did in the past, then that's progress.
Speaker 1:Yeah, lots there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good reading.
Speaker 1:Cluttered spirits.
Speaker 2:So, friends, yeah, it's a good reading. Cluttered spirits.
Speaker 1:So, friends, just for today, clear away what's cluttering your spirit by making any amends that you owe.
Speaker 2:See you tomorrow, bye.
