Peplau's Ghost
Psychiatric-Mental Health Nurse Practitioners (PMHNP) discussing using psychotherapy within their practice. Four PMHNP program directors and a biostatistician from across the Unites States sharing their passion on how psychotherapy can help people with nearly all their emotional problems.
Peplau's Ghost
From Pills to Skills: Transforming Mental Health Through Cognitive Restructuring with Chelsea Landolin
What if you could teach your patients to be their own therapists? Chelsea Landolin, psychiatric-mental health nurse practitioner from UCSF (University of California-San Fransisco: Chelsea.Landolin@ucsf.edu), reveals how cognitive behavioral therapy creates lasting change beyond medication alone.
Chelsea shares her fascinating journey from psychopharmacology researcher to CBT advocate, describing that pivotal moment watching Carl Rogers' therapeutic approach with 'Gloria' and recognizing how empowering the right therapy can be. Her candid explanation of how our brains process negative thoughts literally—"When you say 'I'm a failure,' your brain believes it completely"—offers a compelling case for cognitive restructuring as an essential skill for mental health providers.
The conversation explores a powerful success story of an elderly patient who transformed decades of self-criticism through CBT, developing a gentler relationship with herself as she learned to challenge core beliefs about her worth. Chelsea's innovative approach adapts traditional CBT to fit into brief clinical encounters, making therapy accessible even in busy settings. "If you only have five minutes to do cognitive restructuring, you can make meaningful progress," she explains, describing how separating treatment over multiple sessions often deepens the therapeutic impact.
Most provocatively, Chelsea highlights how nurse practitioners are uniquely positioned to address America's mental health access crisis. While psychiatrists increasingly focus on medication management alone, NPs can bridge the treatment gap, especially for Medicare patients typically excluded from many therapy options. Her vision? A future where every psychiatric nurse practitioner receives comprehensive CBT training, dramatically expanding access to this life-changing therapy nationwide.
Ready to expand your therapeutic toolkit and help patients develop skills that last a lifetime? Like, subscribe, and comment to join the conversation about the evolving role of nurse practitioners in transformative mental healthcare.
Let’s Connect
Dr Dan Wesemann
Email: daniel-wesemann@uiowa.edu
Website: https://nursing.uiowa.edu/academics/dnp-programs/psych-mental-health-nurse-practitioner
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-wesemann
Dr Kate Melino
Email: Katerina.Melino@ucsf.edu
Dr Sean Convoy
Email: sc585@duke.edu
Dr Kendra Delany
Email: Kendra@empowered-heart.com
Dr Melissa Chapman
Email: mchapman@pdastats.com
yeah, just my take on things. My answer number two decrease until they cease. It's not a discovery Identifying a challenge in your beliefs.
Speaker 2:All right, welcome back everyone. Here we are another episode of Pep Lau's Ghost. Thank you for joining us. Really excited to have our next guest here, chelsea Landlin, from the University of California, san Francisco. So I'm really excited to get to know her and her passion for psychotherapy in this podcast. I'm also joined by Dr Kate Molino from the University of California. Maybe they know each other, maybe they don't Find out this episode we'll kind of probably get into that and then Dr Melissa Chapman-Hayes, who's with us always as kind of that voice of reason maybe I don't know, but it keeps us from getting too jargony and things like that.
Speaker 2:So one of the exciting things I do have to share I don't know if anyone else here listening, or even on the podcast right now this is our 21st episode. Can you believe it? 21. So now we can start drinking. Right, so let's order. Around. Here we go, no, just kidding. So right so. So let's, let's order. Around. Here we go, uh, no, just kidding. So, yeah, 21, this is our 21st episode, really excited.
Speaker 2:So, um, and again, we continue to get lots of listeners. So, uh, from all across the united states and then even internationally. We, I'm just so surprised we get probably about one to five percent um for international, especially up in our nordic areas, in denmark and finland and such so. So thank you very much for listening all around the world. So so again, really excited. Thank you, chelsea, for taking some time today and getting to to kind of share your thoughts here on this. But let us get this ball rolling and and get with the first question when, when did you get first get excited in psychotherapy? I mean, what's kind of was your first draw, what was your first kind of you know? Gosh, I want to do more of that or just really kind of dive into it.
Speaker 3:Wonderful and first of all, thanks for having me. This is such an exciting thing to be doing and such a valuable podcast, because I do think that nurse practitioners are so important and increasingly important providers of psychotherapy, especially to folks who have, you know, limited access because of insurance and other things. A lot of times we can provide it when no one else can that's been my experience at least. So I'm just delighted that you all are leaning in to this content. So I got interested in psychotherapy oh goodness, it was probably during my program.
Speaker 3:So I trained at UCSF in both the adult Psych NP program as well as the adult nurse practitioner program. So primary care and I was doing I'd come previously from the world of psychopharmacology research and health psychology research before that back in Massachusetts and but came out, came out here and got started in the program. And then what I was trying to do was figure out gosh, how do I, if I'm going to provide integrated primary care and psychiatric care, which was the intention of the program that I was in at the time, I was like what modality would be appropriate, right? What kind of therapy should someone provide if they are providing both your mental health care as well, as you know, performing sensitive physical exams on you, right? So I thought, geez, what should I do? So when I encountered open, rogers was able to help Gloria be. You know, I don't know if you've spoken about Gloria previously on this podcast, I can.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, get into it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, what's that A little bit Okay. So this was done years ago, I don't know, yeah, get into it. Yeah, yeah, what's that? A little bit Okay so. So this, this was, this was done years ago, I don't know, probably seventies or something, and they basically this one woman. She was a real patient and she was interviewed by by three different famous psychotherapists who had their own modalities, right, and he and so Carl Rogers had, you know, 30 minutes or something, um, to conduct a, an interview and find out what was going on with her. And you know, she, she had, she had a lot to share and it was very vulnerable and I was able to see gosh when he interviewed her. It just she, she opened up and then I saw her interviewed by some of the other psychotherapists and she just clammed up and was very stressed out, and so I was like, wow, I kind of like this, and so I thought, okay, maybe, maybe a Rogerian approach is is right for me, which, aligned with who I am as a person. I'm sort of a walking talking human care bear. So it really seemed to fit, because you know his, you know that that approach, you know we've been to have a have a technical term for loving your patient, which is having unconditional positive regard, right. So I that that that worked for me and so I. So I started kind of bringing that approach into what I was doing.
Speaker 3:And when I went out to start working, I took a job with, with an assertive community treatment team that was providing this wraparound, you know multidisciplinary services to people with severe mental illness who'd been chronically homeless. And so, and I, you know, instantly had a panel of I don't know 95 patients or so you know fresh out of school, and they're all you know some of the you know sicker outpatients in that whole County. And I was like, oh boy, okay. And so I thought, what am I going to do? So I start doing some supportive psychotherapy and then with certain patients I was able to go a little bit deeper and I was able to use a Rogerian approach. But I did struggle a little bit because I didn't encounter very easily training resources. So I read books and that kind of thing to try to try to develop the skills. But I only went so far with that Um.
Speaker 3:And then fast forward about eight years later, um, I took a job, um, with uh, with UCSF, in one of the primary care clinics. I was asked to start a pilot program, provide integrated mental health care in this kind of medium-sized primary care clinic, which was an exciting opportunity because I had gotten the whole growth curve from caring for people with severe and persistent mental illness. I knew my, my antipsychotics backwards and forwards, you know, et cetera and so, but you know, hardly ever got to prescribe medicines for ADHD, for example, because a lot of people you know they were using meth or whatever and you know it just wasn't appropriate. So this was a different population. They were generally commercially insured or they had Medicare. Those were the folks I was able to see and I knew going in. I wanted to develop a specific skill set for them and I had gotten interested in CBT just over the years because when I was back at the other program, occasionally I would have a patient that you know just seemed to be so appropriate for for CBT and I just I was like wow, you just can't get access to this. It's so difficult, right? We, there was, was there was one place that would take, that would take patients, uh, for kind of sliding scale or low, low-cost services. Um, it's the right Institute in the East Bay, but I had a. But I had a bipolar patient that got turned away, um, you know, and it just was sad. So I was like, wow, I, how do I actually get this to my patient? So I was like I better get trained myself. Okay, so that's, that's what I did. So this, this was right around when place and everything.
Speaker 3:I I looked into some classes and started and I got signed up for for some of the fundamental courses with Beck Institute. So you know, so how to provide, you know, cbt for depression and anxiety, another course, so a few things. So I got, I got going with those and I just loved it. I thought it was so fantastic. And then I would nerd out sometimes on like old, like Aaron Beck videos, um, and you know him talking about like how he discovered automatic thoughts of this one, like I love that story which I can tell if you want it's. It was just so exciting to me and so I developed that.
Speaker 3:And then and then when I started practicing at, you know, at the primary care clinic, you know I would just communicate to patients that had that I could do this. And you know, more and more people, people got interested and I developed a little spiel and an approach to doing it. So much so that I eventually developed a sort of a training module for how to perform cognitive restructuring in sort of a busy clinic setting and so that I presented at a few conferences setting, and so that I presented at a few conferences and I've also been training the UCSF students on that pretty much every year for the past several years, and then now training students in the online multi-campus program that we're doing at the University of California too, in this, in this approach, and what I really like is that it enables people who've learned in their schooling, right, some principles of CBT but they really don't know where to start and how to really implement it. So I, you know, so I did zero in more on. You know, cbt is very big, right, so I narrowed it down to like, let's focus on the cognitive restructuring part of it and let me teach that, right, because that's like the core, sort of beating heart of you know, the cognitive side of CBT, right? So, in my opinion, correct me if you think differently, Melissa, but that's how I see it.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, so I started teaching that and I've just loved the excitement that students get when they grasp it. It's just, you know, wonderful. So I teach it as a usually a three hour workshop and then space it out by two weeks or so and then do another two hours, and so they learn like a step by step process. And then they do partner practice using like simulated cases. I have them do a thought record in that interim, two weeks for themselves, right, and then they pair up in the last one and then they work with their own material, you know, trading off, and so they really get the experience of what's it like to be the patient when you're doing cognitive restructuring, how does it feel right when you're doing cognitive restructuring, how does it feel Right, and and then what's it like to provide it in this sort of friendly setting.
Speaker 2:Thank you, chelsea, that's, that's amazing. I love this story. I, you know. Two thoughts come to mind and maybe just one to kind of follow up with is you know, it's interesting how you start off in pharmacology, I guess, and kind of that's a different type of you know way to approach patients and to care for them and such. Maybe, in asking, you know, thinking back on that time, was there something maybe kind of in the back of your head or something kind of maybe just a little dissatisfied with what you were doing, that kind of drove you back to school and maybe kind of pushed you in this direction that you're so passionate in now? Or was it just happen, chance and things like that?
Speaker 3:I mean, my path into this has many different threads. We can get into some of them. I think one of the biggest drivers was feeling like I just wanted a more diverse toolbox, right? Because when all you have is a hammer, all you see are nails, and you know, I think it's just better to um for both, for me, as a practitioner, to be able to feel like I'm doing more than pushing pills, cause that's not what I am trying to bring to my practice, right, I I want to have a, you know, an encyclopedic understanding of all of the medicines and be able to use them as as as needed, as needed and as fit right.
Speaker 3:But psychotherapy is different. It is more potentially curative than our medicines are. Right, and what I love about CBT, right, is that you're actually training the person to be their own therapist, and so that has long-term sustainability. You know, once you teach someone to fish, so to speak, right, they can feed themselves. So I liked that and I found that it also was a way you know it's like, by using, like psychotherapy, add-on codes, to have longer visit times, a little bit longer visit times with my patients, and that was a huge plus too, because you know when you.
Speaker 3:When you do that, you almost double your RVUs, your productivity, and so I didn't have to see, you know, 16 patients a day. I, you know I could see 10, and that was good for me and as well as for the patients. So it started kind of all fitting together like that. But I remained very passionate about psychopharmacology as well, and on the faculty at UCSF, like Andrew Penn and I are always kind of nerding out about it, and so I I wouldn't say I've, you know, I just I tried it.
Speaker 2:They're sort of like equal, I think, to me yeah, no, thank you, and I guess you know just kind of seeing, because it is a life change Right, I mean, and I think it takes a lot of courage to kind of, you know, listen to your own kind of inner voice. I think, in a sense, because I think you were saying that you just felt like the pharmacology, while it did a lot, and again, meds save lives, I definitely. You know, I always want to talk about these sort of things. I don't want people to skew like it's either psychotherapy or it's meds, it's, it's both Right, I mean, that's the best, you know, that's the best treatment for our patients. But but again, just, yeah, maybe just want to highlight I want to turn it over to Kate too but I mean just that idea of listening to your own inner voice to to make that change and go back to school.
Speaker 3:I mean that's not easy to do, that's, that's quite a leap of if I can. And that's just that. When I was doing working in research, I was, you know, this was an entry level job I was, I was a research coordinator and so I got trained on a lot of psychiatric, you know, structured instruments so that I could do those at a very high level of reliability. Very high level of reliability, you know I got, I was working on like 10 different studies at one point. So I was doing, doing a lot and it was really great center that I was working.
Speaker 3:But as a research coordinator, like you know, you're actually performing diagnostic interviews but what you can say and do right is very like predefined right, uh, very, very structured. You're going to go through the same same steps and so I was able to use, like, um, you know, to be supportive of patients, right, and have some, um, you know the way that I would outreach and greet them and everything provide, like you know, sort of support. Uh, because I, you know, my empathy was activated right with all the folks that I was I was working with, uh, but yeah, but I couldn't, you know, I really it was like I can't do anything that's like remotely like psychotherapy here, right? So, um, yeah, so that definitely made me excited about a career as a psych MP, because I'll get to choose what I'm doing right. I have a lot more options. I get to direct the plan and implement it.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. And, Chelsea, it's so much fun to hear about your trajectory and all the different sort of phases and how one very much led to the next, and also what I really hear in what you're sharing is how much your realization about what patients need in this given setting kind of informed your next steps in your own professional development. It's so cool and I love what you said about how CBT is really about training the patient to eventually become their own therapist. So that's really where I want to focus. My next question for you is I'm wondering if you can maybe describe for our audience, think about a patient you've worked with, or you know a specific thing you worked with a patient on and how that kind of unfolded as a success story.
Speaker 3:Okay. So I'm going to think back to my practice in that primary care clinic because I just had a lot of opportunity to have kind of like nice clean cases, I guess in that setting. And so I would say that some of the most exciting work was with people were very invested, right, they. They once, once they got, they heard the spiel, right, you know, they got excited about doing doing CBT. Some of them, oh my goodness, it was so lovely working with people who are kind of later in their life, right, they're in their seventies, sometimes even in their eighties doing psychotherapy with them. Right, and the the way that doing cognitive restructuring like changed their relationship with themselves, right With with with the way that they think.
Speaker 3:So I, so I had people who I'm thinking of a patient who'd received, you know, really negative messages from their parents and, you know, had developed some very negative opinions of themselves, right as as a parent, and had struggled in some different ways. I'm just trying to keep it general right here, but but it was, it was really great because this patient was very organized. I was able to really bring her into the process. So, you know, over time, as you work with someone in CBT, you develop what's called a, you know, cognitive conceptualization diagram, and she became part of working on the diagram, like with me, right, and she was having her own realization diagram, like with with me, right, and she was having her own realization. She was doing doing this, you know, impromptu, as thoughts came up right, related to who she was as a parent, and so it was really cool to see this progress toward a more gentle relationship with herself and how she was able to reframe the past as something, as a, as a time when she was really doing her best. It might not be as good as what she, she wanted, right, but nonetheless she, she really was doing her best and she has the.
Speaker 3:And seeing that now, in the present moment, right, she has the opportunity to do even better, right, as she, as she learns, learns into the deeper stuff, into core beliefs, into, you know, conditional assumptions, right, because, like I said, if you believe that you're not good enough, right, then you're going to develop rules of living, right, so that you will kind of be okay, right? So if I'm not good enough, then if I do everything perfectly, then I'll be okay. If I do everything people ask of me, I'll be okay, right, and these are very rigid and you know, ultimately, like, take a huge toll on people over time. And so being able to, you know work on, you know individual, like automatic thoughts and the situations that prompt them, and you know the, the feelings that come from that and the behaviors that follow that, right, and you do that for a few different situations and then you're like, wow, there's some common themes here. You know, if this automatic thoughts through true, what does it mean about you? Right, and then you start getting to the core beliefs and then you can perform like a similar process on the core belief, right, but you can't do that until you crack the surface Right by, because, people, you can't just tell people that their thoughts are not always 100 percent true, right, you know the brain's very literal and that's that's something that I people, you can't just tell people that their thoughts are not always 100% true, right, you know the brain's very literal, and that's that's something that I explain to patients.
Speaker 3:Like the things that you say to yourself, right, you might know that they're only partly true, but when you say that to yourself, your brain isn't getting that right, it's actually taking everything literally. So if you say to yourself, you know I'm at, I'm such a failure, right. Your brain's going to be like, oh, we're a failure, right, we need to feel awful, right. And then you feel awful. And then you know you're, you're, you're despairing, you're disappointed in yourself, right, you know. And then it's going to affect your behavior, right. So so you have to start, you know, observing that process to see, ok, well, I mean, I failed at this thing, but not at that, right. And so just getting to that place of, like, realistic thinking, which, when you have a realistic thought, like you meet it with a shrug usually, rather than than putting your face in your hands, right, so that's just like the power of it. I love that. It's just about being realistic and it's. You know, life is less painful when you're not making these dramatic over generalizations right in our, in our minds.
Speaker 2:Um, so anyway, um I'm gonna steal that chelsea. I I've never heard it that way that that solid you know brains. I you know I'm gonna be a little crass here and say your brain is kind of autistic in some way. It doesn't see sarcasm. But that I'm gonna steal that. I'm sorry, I'll quote you and excite you on that, but that's great. I've never heard it kind of put that way, so thanks.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I want to say too, I really, really appreciate how you're describing how this all works, because I think sometimes one of the ideas that people have about CBT maybe not knowing too much about it or haven't applied it yet is that it really is all very intellectual and, uh, it very much stays up here I'm pointing to my head right now, um, but in fact, these, this whole process is very, actually, heartfelt. In the end, it very much affects our emotions and our whole sense of well-being, um, and so I just appreciate how you are making it so clear that it's infused with that too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you know, I, I, I just love how, how life changing this this has been, and I also love just the way that cognitive restructuring can be used as this like pretty general tool. Right, you can use it for episodic treatment of mental health problems, right, and so like even you know. So, whatever diagnosis you know that might be associated with it, right, it's something that you can just have in your pocket, you know, and be ready to help patients with, and I've just found it really makes people feel like they're getting something from psychotherapy right. A lot of people really do like the option of something structured. It's not that that's always maybe what's needed, but a lot of times it is. And it's a nice entry point, I think, to psychotherapy for people who are, who are new to it, because, uh, you know, they've, they've heard, oh, you know, psychotherapists. They just say, you know, they ask you about your mother and whatever. They or they just repeat back what you said to them. And you know, they've heard of people like I don't really get much out of therapy, so, um, so this is, this is sort of a corrective experience, I think, for people to have like, okay, oh, this is little thing and I also I don't use like worksheets.
Speaker 3:You know things like that that are often associated with CBT. You know, kate, kate knows my style, which is generally like getting a white sheet of paper and just like folding in a certain number of quadrants or sections and then each section like means something and you fill it in. I started doing that years ago and it's just stuck with me. So I like giving people the feeling like you could start, you know, a cognitive restructuring cycle anytime. Right, you just grab a sheet of paper, we're going to get going, right, and yeah, I just feel it's empowering.
Speaker 3:And then for people who do actually need meds, like after they make some effort in psychotherapy, right, and they see, oh wow, I was able to make progress in this, but I still have trouble with this. They feel like they've, like meds, become more like of a reasonable option because you know it's like you, you, you, you try. I've had that experience also doing like, like sleep restriction, right For insomnia. I had a patient that was struggling and they didn't want to take medicine. So, okay, so we did a structured approach to sleep restriction and that was very, very difficult, right, and you know, some progress occurred. But eventually the patient was like okay, let's talk about meds now. Sure, let's do that right, but you feel like you kind of came to it the right way for them, you know.
Speaker 4:I love these examples.
Speaker 5:These examples are so great and you are, like Kate said, making this so accessible. I feel like I'm going through the process with you and I appreciate that my question is a little bit of a different level. I'd like to we'd like to hear your opinions on how you see nursing being a leader in performing psychotherapy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I think there's a great opportunity because what we see elsewhere, right in the, in the psychiatric provider, like landscape, um, is people, you know, the more trained you are, the further away you know that you're getting from psychotherapy, right, so many psychiatrists feel very hemmed into like a meds only practice, for example, when that was not historically the case, right, they were providing psychoanalysis and so on. So it's really, you know, it's sad to see that, but it's also, you know, sort of a function sometimes of the pay scale and everything. So, nurse practitioners, right, you know, you know, depending on where you are, you know it can be a, you know, reasonably compensated profession, but it's still, like, not quite at the scale of psychiatry. So, you know, it's not as costly for you to spend a little extra time with the patient. You know, by comparison, right, and you can treat people who have Medicare which, like, for example, here in California, people who have Medicare have a lot of trouble and particular or Medicare and Medicaid will have a lot of trouble accessing psychotherapists because there's whole classes of psychotherapists that are not, like, permitted or might not be contracted, right, so you know. So, if you're so, if you are a clinical psychologist, right, or if you are, you know, a psychiatrist or a psychiatric nurse practitioner or a licensed clinical social worker, like you might be, those are like the options. You can't be, you know, an LCSW or an LMFT, for example, right or or associate level to to provide those services.
Speaker 3:So I'm just like, so we and we also are able to train people in larger numbers. You know, like you know a lot of times right so the so the program that you know that Kate and I are, you know, like you know a lot of times right so the so the program that you know that Kate and I are, you know, connected with right, we'll train, you know, over over 20 people you know, in a cohort, right and they, you know they're doing a two, three year program, right, so you know we've been over 30 before right In the past. You know you know we've been over 30 before right In the past. You know, and you talk about those numbers with with, you know, department of Psychiatry and the number of people they're training is so much smaller and their numbers are like, restricted by, you know, by some some of the federal like rules, I, if I recall correctly, so it's it, it's's tough, um, so we have. So there's this gap, kind of, and so nurse practitioners can step into this. They just need the, the training and the um to and and enough to build their confidence, um, and to get enough feedback so they, you know, really can feel oh yeah, I'm doing this, right, um, they just have to have that.
Speaker 3:And then also, like I said this, this strategy with the cognitive restructuring I designed really so that if you only have five minutes to do some cognitive restructuring in a session, which might be it right, you can do that and then you're gonna, and then you're gonna take pick it up the next time. You see the patient, right, and they're going to do some, some work in between. So, and it actually becomes even more powerful sometimes when you separate it out, because people have a chance to sort of think and ponder and do some work in between, and so sometimes it's even deeper. So I think we we have that opportunity, you know, for a variety of reasons. And I mean, and I'm like sort of a frontier that I'm very curious about is actually whether primary care nurse practitioners since they do provide primary mental health care to a lot of people, right of people, right, they're the ones who are prescribing, you know, you know, antidepressants and anti-anxiety medicines and and so on. To, to to a lot of people.
Speaker 3:Right, at what point do we take something like, you know, cognitive restructuring and sort of step-by-step approach right and enable them to do it right, because there's a, you know, we're teaching patients how to do it themselves, right? They're not licensed psychotherapists, right, you know? And a lot of primary care nurse practitioners have a lot of like, a lot of soft skills in terms of how they're relating to patients. So that's been sort of a question in my mind, like can you know at what point you know scope of practice wise, like you know, could we start putting this in the hands of those folks to to further expand access? You know they might not have, you know, the depth of training right in in CBT but and psychotherapy in general. But, like I said, this, I really would view this as primary right mental health care, and so it you know there's a case to be made, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's yeah, and you may be aware, you know there's, there's literature out there using interpersonal psychotherapy and nurses over the telephone they would call patients and do you know, obviously not a full session or full, kind of robust eight to 12 sessions. But you know, yeah, like you said, picking apart little pieces of those theories and applying it so and that's even you know RN levels. You know kind of doing those kind of things. So I think you know we're kind of we're coming up on time here a little bit for our podcast, but I think you've led into kind of. The next question is just kind of thinking about the future of psychotherapy. Where do you kind of see it? What's your crystal ball? Tell you, you know what's where. If you ran, if you had a time machine, went back and were able to talk to Chelsea from the past and you know what, would you tell her to? Kind of, you know, start going this way or that way, what do you think?
Speaker 3:Gosh, I would like.
Speaker 3:My dream really is that psychiatric nurse practitioners, like you know, and psychiatric CNSs, like all over the country, you know, like get trained by the Beck Institute so that we're, you know, and it's not like you know it costs something, but it's not like you're not spending thousands and thousands of dollars, it's not like that, right, it's, they're reasonable, they're very reasonable people at the Institute and you know to, if, if everyone was getting that and if this kind of material was being featured, like in a lot of the training programs.
Speaker 3:Right, I would just love if you know if, when people think of, like where can we get, see, where can this patient get cbt, be like, oh, let's send them to a psychiatric nurse practitioner. They're all trained, you know. Um, you know, because I guarantee, right, if you're getting treated at a federally qualified health center or something like that, if they have psych services, they're probably provided by Psych NP. If you're working for you know, you're being served by a small community-based organization, right, it's probably a psych MP, and so we actually have this huge opportunity to like expand access. So I think, and this, I think that would be unexpected and wonderful. So that's, that's the kind of thing I would like to see in the future.
Speaker 2:Very great. Thank you, chelsea, so much for this time. I agree it just you know this time has flown by. I can't believe we're on up on time and things like that. But thank you for sharing your expertise. Wonderful to hear from your experience. I think you have so much more to share. I hope you can maybe come back for a future podcast. That would be amazing.
Speaker 3:Oh, I'd love to Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but thank you all for listening, appreciate it. Another episode will be coming out shortly and look forward to having many more episodes throughout this summer. So have a great day and like, subscribe and please comment.
Speaker 1:All right, take care, bye too much salt like this, too much seasoning. They feel it. Therefore, it's true, work hard until those thoughts are finally leaving, so you can be you. Uh, they feel it before. It's true, work hard until those thoughts are finally leaving, so you can be you. Uh, they feel it before. It's true, work hard until those thoughts are finally leaving, so you can be. You got a discovery identifying challenging your beliefs or beliefs, reframing your mind. Negative thoughts release, let it go. These cognitive distortions decrease until they cease. Yeah, got a discovery identifying challenging.
