How Two New Clinicians Prove Psychotherapy Works In Real-World Practice with Dr. Jirak and Dr. Hunt

What if the most powerful change in a “med check” isn’t the prescription, but the pause? We sit down with two newly minted PMHNPs who started in primary care and rural health, then shifted into psychiatry after seeing how often medication alone fell short. Their journey reveals a simple truth: when we pair pharmacology with person-centered psychotherapy—even inside 20–30 minute visits—patients build skills they can carry for life.

Dr. Beth Hunt and Dr. Sam Jurak open up about early fears, the weight of imposter syndrome, and the moment therapy “clicked.” From a teen discovering it’s okay to be herself to adults untangling long-held patterns, they show how presence, validation, and a few targeted CBT tools can spark momentum. We unpack the art of “third ear” listening—hearing themes beneath the words—and how to reflect emotions without pushing an agenda. You’ll hear concrete ways to integrate supportive, solution-focused, and CBT techniques into short follow-ups, plus how to know when to pull back if a patient isn’t ready.

We also address the real barriers: productivity demands, pressure to stick to medication management, and the myth that therapy only counts if it’s a 16-week protocol. Beth and Sam share how mentorship reframed their role—you don’t have to be everything to them, just somebody for them—and why combining meds and psychotherapy in one seat reduces fragmentation and burnout. As anxiety and uncertainty rise, PMHNPs can lead by making therapy accessible, practical, and evidence-informed right where patients already are.

If you’re a clinician looking to do more than refill scripts—or a curious listener who believes mental health care should feel human—this conversation offers playbooks, language, and hope. Subscribe, share this episode with a colleague, and leave a review telling us your favorite micro-therapy move. Your insight might fuel the next breakthrough.

Let’s Connect

Dr Dan Wesemann

Email: daniel-wesemann@uiowa.edu

Website: https://nursing.uiowa.edu/academics/dnp-programs/psych-mental-health-nurse-practitioner

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-wesemann

 Dr Kate Melino

Email: Katerina.Melino@ucsf.edu

 Dr Sean Convoy

Email: sc585@duke.edu

 Dr Melissa Chapman

Email: mchapman@pdastats.com

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Intros

SPEAKER_08 0:32

Welcome back, everybody, to Couple House Ghost, another episode that I've been looking forward to this whole week. I'll be very honest. It's going to be really near and dear to my heart. We've got two esteemed colleagues of mine here who are alumni of the University of Iowa PMHMP program. And so I'm really excited to introduce Dr. Beth Hunt and Dr. Sam Durak, who again, who are really looking forward to kind of sharing their interests and their knowledge. They're relatively new to the practice. I say that with uh my back feeling like it's going to go out because I'm really making myself old, sounding like that. But again, really love to kind of hear their perspective on the field that they just entered and you know where they see their careers going. And again, as we always like to talk about here in this podcast, how psychotherapy kind of fits into that role in general. Again, another shout out to our lovely intro music by Marcelli Pasqual Rodriguez through transform transformation, aesthetics, and wellness. Thank you again to Marcelli for that. That's awesome and really appreciate mixing it up and adding new audio for us. So thanks again. All right. And I'm always joined here by Dr. Sean Convoy, Dr. Kate Molino, and Dr. Melissa Chapman-Haynes, the tried and true rock cornerstone of our podcast. So let's get to it. Let's hear from our guests. Uh, I've done too much talking already. Let me just start us off with just kind of introduce yourself, maybe take a little time, you know, what got you interested in doing it's like again, as I know since in your faculty, I kind of know where you started from and and knew know you kind of through this program, but maybe share a little bit with our listeners, you know, what what brought you to this place and and what's what keeps you getting up every day and driving you forward.

unknown 2:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 2:19

I'm gonna be like my faculty. I'm gonna just make you do it. Like, okay, go Sam.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

I'll I'll take this one. So I'm Sam Yrak. I can honestly say that I did not anticipate to be where I am today when I first started the program at the university. I actually was enrolled in the family practice program at the time. And I had done quite a bit of rural

Why They Chose Psychiatry

SPEAKER_02 2:40

health care experiences. And part of that I really kind of started finding this almost obligation, maybe is the right word, towards like, I can't work in rural health care and then have these people that need mental health services and be like, well, sorry, here's some Lexapro, that's about as good as I can do for you. And so I kind of at this, I mean, stars crossed, everything worked out. At the same time, the university started offering a dual certification. And so I enrolled in psych thinking, you know what, I'm just gonna do this, and this will be kind of a nice addition to my practice already. And then seven years later, here I am. I absolutely love what I do. And really the psychotherapy, I think, has been a huge piece of it that has allowed me to not only take like this medical framework, but also pull in really like who these people are when you're working with them. And so my practice now, I I do primarily psychiatry, and then I do do some family practice on the side, which is completely reverse of where I thought I'd be. So yeah.

SPEAKER_08 3:47

Thanks, Sam. Appreciate that. Yeah, you know, it's it's interesting. I I think you were one of the first people I interviewed for kind of admissions. And I did this with a colleague of mine who had much more experience. And after, and I don't know if you remember this, but after the interview, she kind of she counseled me a little bit and said, You don't have to be so tough. It's just like we want to welcome people to our programs. It was it was I always remember that, like, oh, maybe I want to be a little, you know, you know, why do you want to be in our program? type of thing.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

So no, I I yeah, assuringly, I do not remember you being tough, Dan. So always supportive my entire history with you.

SPEAKER_06 4:22

If anyone can handle it, it's Sam.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Oh man.

SPEAKER_04 4:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:28

Well, I am Beth Hunt. Um, I've been in practice for two years as a psych mental health nurse practitioner. Um, my story actually started a little bit like Sam's too. I was actually in the adult JRO primary care nurse practitioner program. And I was working in the surgical neuroscience ICU at the University of Iowa for a little while. And then I realized how deeply that mental health is integrated in primary care and just in any type of care in general, especially in the ICU, because there's lots of trauma associated with that. So I decided to switch cares a little bit and get into psych mental health. And I am so glad that I did because I love it so much. I think with psychotherapy, I don't, I honestly can tell you that I didn't have an interest in doing it. And then I did my preceptorship with Sam, actually. Funny story. And she was my teacher for a little while, and I ended up just loving it because she just did a fantastic job. And yeah, now I decided to do it and I love it so much.

SPEAKER_08 5:30

Thanks to you both. That's great. Pass it off to

First Psychotherapy Breakthroughs

SPEAKER_08 5:33

Sean.

SPEAKER_09 5:33

Yeah, I so I'm gonna ask the two of you to think about, and either one of you can answer or both of you can answer. You've given us kind of like a good, you know, framework to operate from. Can you think about a an experience, a clinical practice experience you've had with a patient, and obviously de-identify it, but think about that experience where you leverage psychotherapy and then something happened that made you realize and go, oh my god, this actually works. Can you de-identify that and kind of give us the story?

SPEAKER_02 6:03

That's a great question. That's a great question.

SPEAKER_06 6:09

I I can think of one instance where it was a teen, actually. She was like 16, 17, you know, and those years are just always really, really hard in general. And I remember her saying, Oh my gosh, it's okay to be myself, and it's okay to be my own unique person because she was just striving to be like all these other people in her life, and she wanted to, you know, be just like her friend and this person, and she just didn't really have like that like self-identity. And she really one day she's just said, Wow, it's okay to be me. It's okay to like learn to do this, that, and the other. And it's okay to just be myself and do different things and learn all these things. And I was just like, ding ding, light bulb moment. Yay! It was so cool to just hear her say that. I was like, Yay, I'm so proud of you. But we have any stories?

SPEAKER_02 7:06

I so honestly, I struggle with that question a lot because I feel like so much of my even my medication visits are so probably enmeshed in psychotherapy that a lot of times my folks will come in and we'll start talking meds, and all of a sudden I do 30-minute med checks, and all of a sudden we're like talking about X, Y, and Z. That it's like, holy smokes, like this, it just all feels so therapeutic in that realm, which always for me, you know, I you hear patient stories quite frequently where it's like I go in, I have a five-minute med check. And don't get me wrong, I have those two, but it just baffles me a little bit to understand completely how people can have such a depth of of history and things going on where you can just say, This is just the medication, this is all it is, but yet you follow the train track back, and you're like, well, this is way more than increasing your Lexapro. Like this is this is 10,000 other things. And so sometimes, I mean, sometimes I've gotten myself in trouble a little bit because some people aren't ready for that conversation. And so you have to like roll yourself back in and be like, okay, you know, just dabble in it a little bit and maybe throw some ideas out. But yeah, so I I I do struggle a little bit to think of just like one time because I think my mind just goes there so quickly.

SPEAKER_09 8:24

Thank you. I I remember I'm reflecting on a past podcast we had probably last summer with the Dr. Beth Phoenix. And Dr. Beth Phoenix made this wonderful observation that as it relates to psychiatric nurse practitioners leveraging psychotherapy, we probably need to redefine what we mean by psychotherapy because as you identified, you can do really good high fidelity work in narrow periods of time and med check model if you know what you're doing. So thank you.

SPEAKER_04 8:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Well, Beth and Sam, I have a question for each of you. So I'm really interested that actually you have worked together and that um, you know, Sam was your preceptor of Beth. So, Beth, for you, I'm curious about you said that you know, initially you weren't interested in doing psychotherapy, and then that changed. So, what

Learning To “Listen With A Third Ear”

SPEAKER_01 9:11

was it, I guess, that changed that for you? Or maybe what did you see in Sam's practice that led you to think maybe that is something you wanted to do? And then for you, Sam, I'd love to hear a little bit about how you go about teaching students how to do this in their clinical practice.

SPEAKER_06 9:27

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. So I actually was she was Sam was my preceptor for not only one semester in school, I she was actually my preceptor for an entire other summer on top of that. So I think that's right, wasn't it? For the summer, it was for the summer, yeah. So it was close to a year. So I really got to like know a lot of her patients, see them, like sit with them. And I just think a big part of it is I noticed her, like, we got to sit with the patients, we got to understand their stories, not just, you know, you're talking to someone like this, and it's not as surface level, it's like you get deep into their stories, and it was just amazing watching them like build the skills that they need to succeed, and watching them actually succeed and come back the next week or in two weeks and be like, oh my gosh, I took your advice and I did this, or oh my gosh, I like decided to set a boundary. It was just like super cool watching them grow. That's I think where it really lit the fuel under my butt. I was like, yeah, I like it. We're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Yes, and at and like in light of being her preceptor for quite a while, it was always interesting, just kind of an aside that she was always very nervous to take on, which I think most like PMHNP students are. It's like, I don't know what to do, I don't know what to do. But I distinctly remember writing, you know, her like little reviews at midterm and the end of her semesters. She had such a knack, like one of the quickest students ever to pick up on themes, which I think is so challenging in therapy, where you know, you think you're listening, but you're listening in a different way. You're not listening always for the patterns, or even sometimes just acknowledging not only what a person's saying, but like their emotions that are maybe coalescing at the same time with some of these things. And so it was just so ironic that she I I distinctly remember she was so nervous to go into it, and then once she did it, it was like, You're a natural, like you have no idea this gift that you have.

SPEAKER_06 11:29

But no, where that came from though is Test Judge Ellis at the University of Iowa. She goes, listen with your third ear, and that always stuck with me. So true. She's like, listen with your third ear, don't just listen at service level.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Okay, yeah. So I think that's gonna be the title of this episode. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

But no, I think for teaching students, honestly, the biggest thing I think that is like always the starting place is just telling them, like, like take a step back on what you need to do and what you think you should do in this moment, because really therapy is like just being present with the patient. I just always feel like with the therapy sessions, at least that I do with them, I'm not often trying to like sway them because that's not gonna do anybody any good. And so beyond all the the basic instincts of like, oh, you can do CBT or you can do these techniques or this, if you just sit with someone and just kind of try to understand them further and then then build from there. That's really what I I try to talk with, any especially the the earlier students where they've never had an exposure to it before.

SPEAKER_07 12:40

That really blends nicely into our next question. And I almost jumped in when you mentioned your former professor, and then you've mentioned CBT and some other approaches and presence. So I'd like each of you to speak to if there's certain forms, types, or maybe it's just aspects of psychotherapy that you're drawn to in your practice. And maybe we'll just reverse it and you can go first and continue on with what you were just saying. That would be easy.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Yeah.

Preferred Therapy Approaches

SPEAKER_02 13:12

So I uh if I had a like a favorite aspect of therapy, I would I always think it goes so much further back to just like the very holistic aspect of nursing and this idea that we are not just caring for a person in this like medical center, but more like the person themselves, how and so it kind of goes along with more of that person-centered type of therapy, I would say, where trying to understand where they're getting in life, you know, like you can have someone come in and say, I was drinking 16 beers, and you feel like, well, 16 beers in a day, like that's concerning to me. But then without asking them a question of how do you feel about that or where do you want that to go, or maybe that's great for them. Maybe that's something that they're totally fine with at this point. And so meeting them in that spot and having that empathy and understanding. I still remember when I was in the college, we had to write up like a whole kind of theory on what our framework was for nursing. And I remember it being like just because this is what it says is good for our body or is good for a person, doesn't mean that's what that person is going to perceive for their own life. And some people just will never have some of those tools or be in a fortunate enough spot to get to even utilize some of those things. So I think that's the biggest thing of psychotherapy. Again, it's beyond like these basic aspects. It's like getting really in there with the person and understanding what's on like the deeper levels, what's going to help them get to where they're going.

SPEAKER_06 14:50

Say that question again. Would you?

SPEAKER_07 14:54

Absolutely. No, not a problem. If there's certain forms, types, or just aspects of psychotherapy that you're more drawn to in your practice for whatever reasons.

SPEAKER_06 15:07

I could agree with Sam. I do a lot of person-centered, and I feel like mostly I do a lot of CBT work too, because I I do a lot of therapy with just it's either ages 14 through like either 35. And then there's like a break in that like chunk of people, I feel like that don't typically come like the age range. And then I see more like older people. So it's mostly just either learning who you are, learning the techniques to manage anger, anxiety, learn how to build skills, like I said earlier, like just learning and coming into who you are as a person. And I don't know, I just love just sitting with the people and getting to know them. And I just think I just enjoy that most of all.

SPEAKER_08 15:54

No, this has been great. I mean, again, I think this is, you know, we're really looking for, you know, kind of I think I mean I thinking back to just even our first episode when we uh talked about the, you know, what is psychotherapy? It's that evidence-based woo-hoo. It's it's it's you know, it's it's it's something, and we've talked about it different ways too. I mean, there's a lot of other people have talked about it. It's uh Sean, I think you mentioned it's kind of like the wind, you know, it's it's making changes, but it's hard to see, it's hard to put a face and a name on it too. So but I appreciate Ms. Melissa's questions because I think we always need to be focused on the theoretical aspect of it and and what you know, keeping ourselves grounded in evidence, but but understanding that that's not where it all is, right? Just like you said, about sitting with a patient, just uh getting them and having those kind

Barriers To PMHNP Psychotherapy

SPEAKER_08 16:36

of moments. So my next question I really want to kind of talk about is is it maybe a little negative here, but I think, you know, just what are some of the barriers or what you know, from your guys' perspective, I'm assuming you know we're talking here, you know, preaching to the choir on this podcast. But thinking outside of that, you know, and and other people you talk to, other colleagues, maybe you see, you know, what what keeps more PMHNPs from using psychotherapy or integrating it into their practice or or things like that? What have you heard? What's what are some of the you know, either personal or professional or more technical stuff that gets in the way?

SPEAKER_06 17:09

Yeah, that's another great question. I personally, I remember doing therapy when I first started as a psych mental health nurse practitioner for I think it was probably three or six months. And I remember going to Sam and I said, What did I say? I remember saying, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. I was like, this is so hard. I said, I'm having such bad imposter syndrome. I was like, I don't feel like I'm doing enough for my patients. I said, What do I do for this? And I remember you just said something along the lines of just sit with them and validate and work through it, and more will come of that and things like that. So I think one, it was just constantly having those bouts of imposter syndrome because I just it would pop up around six months and then it popped up again around like a year, and I still struggle with it sometimes and thinking, am I even doing enough for these patients? But I think another thing too is like finding my niche and like who who I wanted to work with and what population of patients I wanted to work with was another barrier for me too. And I'd recently actually just started only doing 14 plus because the adolescent population and adults is where I just do my best work.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

So yeah, I would echo, I think fear is a huge thing for a lot of people. The nervousness I would have to throw my support team back to obviously you, Dan. You sat with me for oh my gosh, one too many weeks probably of listening to me be like, Dan, and then the the advice. I mean, I still use quotes from Dr. Dan Weisman to this day with with so many people, just because they really resonated in that early stage where, as Beth mentioned, you just feel like, what am I doing? Like, how am I even helping them? But I think, like, like Beth mentioned, sitting with that, acknowledging like you are doing more than what you think, and and really kind of overcoming your own anxiety with it. I also think, and this is always uh something I've been so grateful for of my own practice here, is a lot of medical systems now push for nurse practitioners to only do medications or medication management. And so obviously, just payment and things like that, it has been discussed by non-psychiatric colleagues here at our practice before, kind of questioning why don't we hire a therapist, et cetera, which therapists do great work as well. But the fact that we can bring everything into one space for folks, they they love that. And so I

Lessons From Mentors

SPEAKER_02 19:45

think that unfortunately, especially in precepting, I've heard some students sometimes just like, yeah, that's not really what I want. You know, obviously the the paycheck sometimes may look a little different if you're just doing medication management, et cetera. And so, you know, everybody's motivated by a little bit different things as well.

SPEAKER_08 20:01

So yeah, it's and thank you. And again, I I appreciate both your perspectives because it wasn't the answer I was expecting, which is great. I mean, I guess whenever I ask that question, it always in my head it it is, I think like you said, Sam, at the end, it's just kind of maybe it's a business decision or the pressure from your work. But but I really love how again it said, you know, you have to kind of push back against that. You have to kind of lean into your own profession. That this is something this is your area of expertise, and having non-psychiatric providers or you know, other people, you know, or even clinical or bean counters and things like that, kind of dictating what you can and can't see. I think that's where we need to kind of really lean into our own professionalism there too. And so, and I would always say too, I I hear a lot of people getting you know burned out when they're seeing like 25 patients a day and they're just kind of cranking in and out those, you know, refills on Lexapro and things like that. And it's just not very satisfying. I think. And I think the not very satisfying is more than just the work. I mean, it's hard work either way, but just not seeing much progress, like you were saying, Beth, of just kind of seeing people, you know, have those moments. Because again, you know, you'll need a refill on your meds, but you won't need a refill on your psychotherapy. It's just those things we teach are and help our patients kind of discover within themselves they carry forever. So thank you. That's great.

SPEAKER_09 21:16

So, my friends, I'm gonna I'm gonna, while Whitman is speaking to me, and he's encouraging me to take and go down the path untrodden. So, not every person is gonna have the opportunity to be a student of Dr. Dan or Dr. Wiesman, right? So, can you both think about a unique experience or situation or something you learn from them that can translate to quite frankly, the next generation of advanced practice nurses who are listening to this podcast right now?

SPEAKER_04 21:41

Oh man. That's a good question.

SPEAKER_09 21:45

We're gonna watch to see everybody online. You're not gonna be able to see this visually, but we're gonna let you know if Dr. Eastman starts to blush really aggressively.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Boy, there's so many.

SPEAKER_05 21:58

I'm trying to think.

SPEAKER_09 22:04

So silence can be really powerful, and it's a great opportunity to get net Dr. Wiesman even more red now. So those of you listening, he's getting fan as we're talking.

SPEAKER_04 22:13

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_08 22:14

It is Valentine's, so yeah, red is a good color.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

I like I wish I could just like pull out a quote because the number of times that these girls will come to me and I'll be like, Dan, like they I should have like uh one of those buttons that says, Well, Dan says You literally say I do.

SPEAKER_06 22:36

Dan told me this one time.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Yeah, I don't want to think about it where credit's not deal.

SPEAKER_06 22:42

So yeah, literally. I was like, oh, that Dan knows what he's talking about.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Um, I think probably one of especially speaking towards partially like the psychotherapy was early on in my career, I remember like I would get so stressed about seeing patients who I felt like were just not progressing, you know, I'm not seeing these changes, or I'm I'm feeling overwhelmed by kind of creating this transition of care plan for them. And I would get kind of frustrated, which ultimately down the line, I learned this is not frustration necessarily with my patient, but with myself, of like, I'm feeling like I'm not accomplishing things here. And I think those moments sitting with Dan and the reassurance of like, take a step back, you know, look at what you are doing. Even I know there were comments at times, like, we just have to sometimes sit with our patients, understand something we enjoy about every aspect, or not every aspect, but different aspects of them. Sit with them, just be with that for a while. Like, we don't have to push any agendas. And especially in the beginning, when you think like I need to use CBT and you're trying to write up your note, and you're like, I don't know what I just did in there for 45 minutes. Like, somebody please. That was that was, I think, remarkable like feedback to just allow me to, I don't know, take some stress off my shoulders, especially walking into that that role. So I'll start writing some down for you, Dan, though. There's never a shortage.

SPEAKER_06 24:16

Oh, well, to piggyback off that, I remember in one of the first like mentor meetings that we had, and I was like a very newbie at like psychotherapy, and I think I might have I may have brought my imposter syndrome issues to you as well. And I remember you said something along the lines of you don't have to be everything to them, but you just have to be somebody for them, or something along those lines. And I I was like, that is very insightful, and I love that because it kind of did decrease some of that pressure. Like, you don't have to be everything for them, but just being there, sitting with them, and just being somebody for to them to help them through their problems, sit with them, listen to them, because there might not be a lot of people in their lives that are listening to them the way you are. So that goes so much farther than anything else. And that just helped alleviate all my anxieties and that some of that pressure, too.

SPEAKER_09 25:12

Yeah, that level sets good expectation management. Wonderful. Thank you, Kate.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

Oh, Kate, I don't can't hear you. Is this me?

SPEAKER_08 25:37

Sorry. I know she was saying something amazing. And I, you know, and I'll just take the opportunity here to really just lean into all this embarrassment that I'm feeling and say, this has been the best podcast ever. I mean, we need to have more guests on talking about how awesome I am. Oh, yeah. I think we've hit a real uh whole mine here. So so we're gonna have you back next week and we're just gonna keep doing this and uh and keep going. So yeah. So Melissa, do you have a question? Or we're kind of coming up on time. Maybe we can if K.

SPEAKER_07 26:06

I was gonna kind of ask that wrap-up question about looking for future looking.

The Future Of Psychotherapy For PMHNPs

SPEAKER_07 26:11

I'd love to hear from both of you on what you see as the future of psychotherapy for PMHP.

SPEAKER_06 26:21

Well, I think right now that's a great question, especially for right now and the way that the world is going and all the fear and anxiety that it's provoking right now, too. I think, you know, I would hope that it is a positive experience for psychotherapy in the future. I would hope that it's a good change. And not that I would wish any like bad things up on the world or none of this fear or anxiety that things are happening, but also having people come to therapy, having people come talk to somebody when they need it, and maybe having that just be a little bit of a push for people. And I just hope the best for psychotherapy, and I hope people seek it out more.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Yeah, and I I hope for the sake of our role in particular, that we especially like you guys are doing, I feel like you're seeing more and more, we'll say like pop-up type of events or or talks where more PMHNPs are saying, like, hey, look, like you can do this in your own practice. I I just actually listened to one online the other week where a gal was saying, like, even if you do a 20 or 30 minute med check, like you can incorporate, you know, solution focused or or supportive or these different things where it doesn't always have to be this like super grand 16-week plan, and really just helping kind of step back, sit with patience and talk a little bit more about things. And I I hope for that our career that continues to propel forward, you know, there's always that skeptical side of like money talks as well. And so there's a little bit of fear with that. But I do even just in like the last five years, I would say, of working in this, it seems like more and more people are starting to talk about like we can do this, we can do this, and it makes an impact. And so I'm really hopeful that that just keeps growing with people's knowledge and and interest in treating their mental health as well as their physical health.

SPEAKER_04 28:28

I love that.

SPEAKER_08 28:29

Love it. Yeah, no, I love that too. It's that's maybe a good place to end it. So thank you very much to Dr. Beth Hunt and Dr.

Closing And Listener Q&A Invite

SPEAKER_08 28:36

Sam Jurak. I appreciate your time and your expertise here, sharing with your our podcast listeners. And yeah, it's inspirational. So so thank you again, and thank you all to listeners. Make sure that you check in again on the podcast. We'll be having more guests coming up in the future. Hopefully, a lot more guests that lather me with praise. That's that's really what we're gonna be looking for. That's gonna be our screener now. But no. All right. Don't look for a future podcast. Please make sure that you like, subscribe, comment. Please send in. We're thinking about, hey, last minute here, real quick plug. We've been talking about maybe having a future episode talking about QA, almost like a stump the experts kind of thing. So please send us, you know, email us, drop it in the you know, Apple Podcasts, wherever you're getting your podcast, and send a question. We'd happy to answer it and kind of go along and you know, any concerns or questions you might have that maybe you can't get you on the podcast. So all right, have a great day.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Thanks so much, and uh, once again, take care of the five, uh, all this.