Jim Gebhardt: [00:00:00] The whole concept of the wealth gap you want to get into kind of defining what it is? Well,
Matthew Grishman: yeah, it we are in a way, we are because. This idea of how much do I have versus how much do I need one day to maintain my lifestyle? Right? That's, that's your wealth gap, right? It's simple math formula. Super simple.
Jim Gebhardt: Welcome to the whole wealth journey.
Matthew Grishman: Wealth with a Y. What does that mean? What does that mean? Are we spelling it funny? Uh, no, I think it's spelled or using the word Why the, the word why? Right. Okay, good. Not the letter. Why the actual word? Why Maybe we should introduce ourselves. What do you think? Oh, that's a good idea.
Jim Gebhart. And I'm Matthew Grishman. We are the co-creators of the podcast, the whole Wealth Journey. Ready to find your why. Then let's get started and get you one [00:01:00] step closer to unlocking your inner wealth and wellbeing.
I want to think of some new gratitude today. I am grateful for the fact that live gratitude as much as feel gratitude, meaning it's as much I don't know, an action in how I'm showing up as it is. A feeling about a thing.
Jim Gebhardt: Yeah. We've got license plate frames that denote how we've made gratitude a verb.
There you go. Right. Did you gratitude today?
Matthew Grishman: Yeah.
Jim Gebhardt: And finally, someone in a parking lot the other day, you got asked about it, said, I love your license plate frame. Where'd you get that? How many years did that take? Forever. We've had these a bit. Yeah. And I was like, uh, well actually we, we had 'em made. Oh, I, I love the sentiment.
Thanks dude. I was like, floored. Awesome. [00:02:00] I have So you, you've made it a verb. Yes. You're verbing it.
Matthew Grishman: Yes. So I, I, so in the spirit of gratitude as a verb today, I am grateful. I walked in the gym this morning. I. I'm grateful I did it last night. Actually. More grateful I did it last night. There you go. Because I didn't wanna go.
I knew you didn't wanna Oh, I didn't wanna, I was tired and, well, you know, we, we hung out on Zoom all day. And when you hang out on Zoom land all day. I can't think of anything more mentally exhausting. It just sucks the life outta you. It does, it does. As, as much as I enjoy the conversations we had yesterday, they were challenging.
They were deep. It's the deep gratitude. We discovered some really cool shit along the way. We both got to share and listen and. Observe and it just, it was all good Zoom stuff yesterday, you know, you, me and Allison did some zooming and I had some client zooming and it just, and Lindsay Zoom, you know, team zooming, I zoomed or well teams, I actually used the little video thing on [00:03:00] teams with people on our team, but it a lot of the whole day.
Face-to-face in front of a, a screen,
Jim Gebhardt: right?
Matthew Grishman: And it
Jim Gebhardt: two dimensional living versus three dimensional living is very difficult.
Matthew Grishman: It is, it requires a level of attention because I'm watching body language and feeling body language, and it just like, like when you're in my presence like this, it just, I intuitively can play with you with where you are.
I can meet you where you're at and just we can have an effective conversation when it's 2D land. It just, it like the brain's working real hard at. Connecting and, and maybe I put more into that than, you know, the average Joe does. I just, it connection's really important to me. It's my, I know, kind of one of my true Norths here.
I know. And, uh, so I just, I didn't wanna go to the gym. And the gratitude in that is this gratitude of, I can stand, I can walk, I have my health, and this is how I treat myself as a result. Even though my brain's screaming, I don't wanna, yeah. [00:04:00] There's gratitude in walking in the gym. This is how I express my gratitude to all the people who've, like we were just talking about Dr.
Kincaid, the, you know, the ninja surgeon who is responsible for me sitting here today. Yeah. It was a way to pay homage to you, to everybody in my life who has been there and supported me through this health journey that's been going on for a couple years now. So. That's, uh, I think you found your depth.
There we go. I love coming in here and reasoning stuff out.
Jim Gebhardt: Do you find this has nothing to do with gratitude. Do you find every once in a while you just crave a telephone call? Uh, in the sense of an alternative to a Zoom? Oh, do crave it? I do. I do. There are times where it's like I can be actually more present in the phone call than I can on the zoom.
Because you're not distracted visually. Correct. Ah. The blurry background. Your hair. Her hair, whatever. I find that. I can be much more focused and present on a telephone call, and I'm making [00:05:00] fun of our friends at American Funds with how they say the word telephone only after 30 years of calling American funds.
They always say, and the one 800 number for our telephone call is, is, is that where that's, that's where it comes from, is the way they say the word telephone call. The emphasis is on the wrong sable.
Matthew Grishman: So ladies and gentlemen. I've been hanging out with this guy for two, three weeks. 20 years. 20 years this summer, which we'll pick a date and we'll celebrate it June 15th.
June 15th is our 20th anniversary. Sure. Day after flag day. Exactly. Perfect. I love learning new things. I've been hearing you talk about. The proper salable and the emphasis and the telephone call, and I have no idea what the origin of the story is. So
Jim Gebhardt: there's the origin of the story.
Matthew Grishman: More gratitude is we've got this incredibly long, deep friendship where we're still learning new shit about each other.
Yeah, always. How cool is that? Always.
Jim Gebhardt: Always.
Matthew Grishman: Very good. God bless American funds. Mm-hmm. Now I know. What are you grateful for? [00:06:00]
Jim Gebhardt: I could consume the show with it, given my Thursday, Friday, Saturday last week. Ah,
Matthew Grishman: right.
Jim Gebhardt: Thursday it started with a round of golf. My sister, I have one sister who's 16 years older, and she's only been out to visit a couple of times in my 32 years in California.
Oh. But she's out for a double graduation with our son graduating high school. Our daughter graduating college. God bless her. She's out for a big two weeker where she's doing a lot of other things in between the graduations other than just camping out at our house. But she made it a point where she'd said, I'd really like to go out on the golf course with Grant and see him play because I know how into it he is.
Sure, no problem. So we're out there on the golf course. My sister doesn't play golf. She's not playing. She's just riding along in the cart. We get to the second hole of our. Our course, and it's a par three and you gotta walk across a little bridge over a creek to get to the tee box in order to be [00:07:00] able to see the hole.
And I'm like, come on sis, come on. I want you to walk over here and, and, and see this hole. For whatever reason, the normal tees that we played on the entire front nine were closed. There were no tee markers. They were, I don't know if they were doing some maintenance to 'em or not. So we're playing a set of tees.
We never play. And I go first and I hit a decent shot and I'm probably 30 feet away and Grant goes next. It's 139 yards, and his ball is right at the flag and we're like, oh, that's gonna be good. And we hear it hit the flag, but then we don't see the ball. Like we couldn't quite make out like where it hit the flag and, but we, but we heard it.
It's a very distinct sound. We hop in the cart, we we're going up and I, I just get this sense about me, like I need to record this, like on the, on the really off chance that it is the, the thing, I gotta record this and no shit. It was a hole in one. [00:08:00] That's cool. His first, his first Absolutely. Kids only been playing for four or five years.
Yeah. And the, his reaction, you know, seeing the ball in the hole, I caught the whole thing on video. My sister was there. What, just, just for a minute. First of all, the odds of a hole in one are 0.00. I don't know what Right, right. Then put it against the backdrop of the number of times my sisters come to visit and been on a golf course, let alone with my son.
Right. And she gets to witness the hole in one. I, I, I feel unbelievable gratitude that I get to experience it myself with him. Mm-hmm. Right. It's one thing I've been blessed to have three. Wow. Lucky, blessed, whatever you want to call it, to have three. And I've seen one other one. Frankly, I think anybody would tell you, it's almost as much fun to see one and to kind of be participatory.
Sure. To the hole in one as it is to do it [00:09:00] yourself. Like if somebody in your group or the group behind you is, was what I saw.
Matthew Grishman: Yeah.
Jim Gebhardt: You just feel like you're part of it.
Matthew Grishman: Right. Right. So you guys dropped your bags and went to Vegas. Right. That's the rule. We absolutely,
Jim Gebhardt: we, we immediately left the golf course, chartered a, a private jet out of Buchanan Field and went straight to Vegas.
That's what you do with a hole in one? Absolutely. We should have bought a, a lottery ticket. We didn't. Uh, we rolled that into Friday with our son Jack's graduation from high school. Again, having my sister there just, it was just a wonderful celebration. All the kids were there. I must have taken 200 pictures on, on a real camera.
I. On a, well, a digital camera. Sure. Like I busted it out and I got a new little, you know, floppy
Matthew Grishman: s they call those SD cards. SD cards, yeah. And I
Jim Gebhardt: charged the battery and, you know, so that was a wonderful celebration. And then we rolled it into the graduation present for the kids that we bought months and months, and months ago was tickets to Coldplay.
Matthew Grishman: Nice.
Jim Gebhardt: The unbelievable gratitude that I wanna share [00:10:00] is. Whether you're a fan of their music or not, I think everybody needs to go experience one of their concerts. Hmm. Particularly in the time and place in which we live, because it is the feel good experience of a lifetime. You, you leave there with such a warm, hopeful sense of connection and love and gratitude and inclusiveness and togetherness and aren't we just one big happy family and he does it in a way that is so.
Disarming and comfortable, and there's no, there's no political statements and posturing and everything. It's just this, I mean, he's checking in with you all the time. Like, how, how are you guys doing? Is everybody okay? Right. And they bring some people up on stage to sing to them. And it's just the most, you, you, our, our son Grant had really doesn't know any Coldplay music.
I. And he left on Cloud nine. He [00:11:00] was just absolutely in awe of the experience that came from their music, right? Concerts are concerts. Everybody knows what a concert is, but what they've done to create the energy and the feeling of connectedness is extraordinary. And I can't, I can't recommend the experience enough.
That was their hundred and 95th show on their tour. Wow. It was the first concert that they've ever done, not Coldplay, but that Stanford has ever hosted at Stanford. It was incredible all the way around. So you packed those three days together and I, I mean, I, I am consuming the show with gratitude.
Matthew Grishman: There's connection to especially that Coldplay experience to what we've got on the agenda today. And I would love to do one of our good old fashioned hot washes on it. How did Chris and company create the connection? In such mass, what? What were they doing? Today we're talking about this concept called wealth gap, [00:12:00] and for you and I to do what we do and help people get some clarity, exploring this concept of wealth gap, which we're gonna get pretty deep with today.
There has to be this feeling of safety and trust and connection. Connection, right? To be able to be, 'cause it, it requires a, a, an exercise in not just honesty with. The person taking me through the exercise, but an uh, uh, an honesty with self. Oh yeah. An ability to look in the mirror and be okay and be an acceptance of where I am relative to where I want to go.
'cause you and I have spent a career learning how to measure our progress in arrears, right? You and I love to set ourselves up to win. To measure our progress in arrears is one of the best ways to protect our confidence and set ourselves up to win. You know the analogy is driving in the car. You and I do not look out the windshield.
When we're comparing where we are, when we're trying to measure [00:13:00] progress, we're not looking out the windshield because we're now, we're comparing where we are to where we think we should be the horizon. We're not looking out the side windows, right? I'm not looking at the person next to me on the highway to the left or the person next to me on the right, comparing what vehicle they might be in or comparing me to them.
It's just not healthy for us. What we've learned how to do is stop, turn around, look behind us, see where we've been, and see where we are today, and measure that progress. And not every time in life will it be positive progress, and that's okay. Oh no. But more, more times than not, it will be if. You're mindful and intentional about, I'm on a journey about making progress, right?
So we can measure even the smallest little bit. It takes an incredible amount of connection and trust with yourself to be able ab abundant
Jim Gebhardt: ab vulnerability. Yes. You gotta, you gotta double up or triple up on your supplement of, uh, of vulnerability. Sure.
Matthew Grishman: Well, [00:14:00] I would imagine you could come away from an experience like that with Coldplay.
I. Understanding how you feel knowing that 10 years from now, you may never remember a song that was sung, a word that was said, but you will remember how you felt. And I think especially Grant, who doesn't know Coldplay probably makes fun of you for liking Coldplay. 'cause it's just become a little bit of a joke despite how generationally important and incredible they are as performers, he's not gonna remember what they sung.
He's gonna remember how it made him feel. 100% right? Yep. I bet you there's some things we could take from that and get better at what we do in the realm of leadership and helping people get some more clarity on this idea of wealth gap.
Jim Gebhardt: That's why so much of what we do in the early stages of a, of a new client relationship is about connection.
That's why after we go through all the money [00:15:00] stuff, right, when they come in and they unpack all their money stuff. We set all that aside.
Matthew Grishman: Oh, I forgot. We do that in the beginning. That's right. We do go over the money stuff in the beginning. Yeah. A little bit.
Jim Gebhardt: And we set it aside, right? Intentionally. Yeah.
It's gonna be okay. It's gonna sit over here for now. Yeah. But the next several conversations, as long as they really take Right. We'll take, we'll, we've done these as long as five and a half hours. And that's not meant to scare the tribe. That's just meant to say it. These conversations take what they take and we honor that and.
That's where the level of connection and safety and inclusiveness and all these other, you know, as my kids like to say, great vibes. That's what it takes in order to be able to really kind of dig in to this conversation around envisioning what's life like after this business. And I was talking with a business owner yesterday who is very stuck, has absolutely no clarity at all.
I. On what would be [00:16:00] next. Like, can't even, can't even conceive of what's next. Hmm. It's fascinating
Matthew Grishman: as far as just any aspect of life in general or, or just professionally speaking.
Jim Gebhardt: Um, a little more on the, like the professional slash purpose side of things. Like all, I mean, the identity and everything is so attached to this business that he's built.
He can't see sure. What life would be without that business that he built. Are you surprised? I am still surprised.
Matthew Grishman: I think we
Jim Gebhardt: Upwork only in the, only in the context of. To not have any, any visibility whatsoever. I don't see that as much. Like people are, well, you know, I'm gonna, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm interested in this.
Matthew Grishman: Right.
Jim Gebhardt: I'm, I'm, I could, I could volunteer and this guy had nothing. That, to me, is rare.
Matthew Grishman: Hmm. Okay. I would've thought that'd be more [00:17:00] common. I. Hence, hence part of the, the challenge we're trying to help people with. I, I know, like if we're not doing this, I don't, I don't know what would be next. I've never really taken the time to think about it.
I don't know that there's anything I'd want to be next. And if I'm anything, like any other entrepreneur who's with us here today, part of envisioning what's next requires me to want to envision what's next. Mm-hmm. Because I don't want to right now, I don't know. That might change, right? That might change.
Jim Gebhardt: Right. And in this conversation, does he want to, he doesn't want to, but his wife, who's a partner in the business, wants to Ah, so he's kind of being forced to, and that's leading to an interesting dynamic between them because their business partner's in this business and she kinda wants out and wants him to go out as well.
And he doesn't want to go out. 'cause he can't see [00:18:00] what's next '
Matthew Grishman: cause he doesn't want to even begin to envision what might be next. 'cause he likes what he does and who he thinks he is. Correct. Even though he's not what he does, he thinks he is, but he's not. Yeah. There's a tongue twister for you.
Jim Gebhardt: Yeah. The whole concept of the wealth gap you want to get into kind of defining what it is.
Well,
Matthew Grishman: yeah, it we are in a way. We are because. This idea of how much do I have versus how much do I need one day to maintain my lifestyle? Right. That's, that's your wealth gap, right? It's simple math formula. Super simple. What do I need to replace? I. How I'm currently supporting myself right now. So I have a business that creates a certain amount of cash flow for my family.
Jim Gebhardt: Yep. Let's call it a cash machine. Yeah. Right. We've got this cash machine called
Matthew Grishman: our business
Jim Gebhardt: that we've built. Yeah. From scratch. Most of us
Matthew Grishman: have
Jim Gebhardt: that. Most of us
Matthew Grishman: first gen certainly, or, or maybe we bought something and built it to [00:19:00] something much bigger than it was when we bought it.
Jim Gebhardt: So we have this cash machine that spits out cash, right?
That provides for family, loved ones, and hopefully worth something. Right. Now we're gonna sell it. And the other, this is the other interesting phenomenon that I find curious, but a lot of entrepreneurs lose sight of the fact that when they sell it and they get a bag of money, that that money actually can make them money.
I. They lose sight of the fact that they can invest that in something that creates return. Sure. On the money.
Matthew Grishman: Well, pat. Pat, that's how they create the passive income.
Jim Gebhardt: Sure.
Matthew Grishman: Right.
Jim Gebhardt: They're used to the real estate, passive income, but not necessarily a stock portfolio or a bond portfolio or munis or these things that well.
Would be making money on the money. Why would they be right
Matthew Grishman: In interest rates for the last 20 years have been at zero. Yeah. There's no such thing as creating cash flow, passive income unless you own real estate.
Jim Gebhardt: So it's a, it's a blind spot that we see a lot in terms of Oh, sure. Their wealth gap. Right.
Well, [00:20:00] because they, they're gonna sell the business, get a bag of money, and then they're a little stuck on, well, how do I make that replace my cash machine?
Matthew Grishman: Right. Well, we, we have to go build a new cash machine. Yes. And generally. That cash machine does not assume the same amount of risk that owning a business assumes.
Ah, right. Yet another
Jim Gebhardt: paradox.
Matthew Grishman: They're, you know, so we're, we're selling a business at. God bless our, our youngsters and gen Zers and millennials that, you know, get into business in their early twenties with exit planning in mind, and they have their first transaction before the age of 30. God bless 'em.
Sure. They're continuing to roll the risk game. Sure. We're talking generally to business owners who look like us 50 60. Right. They're in their fifties, they're in their sixties. Maybe a couple of youngsters in their forties that act more like they're in their fifties and sixties. But the idea of exiting is about de-risking.
Or at least it's a big part of it, whether it's a blind spot or not. The [00:21:00] motivation, again, whether they're aware or not, is about how do I take risk off the table? You and I talk about this one day for ourselves that we can't envision and, and just because I think we're in the space, I. You and I are able to see this a little clearer.
You and I can't envision doing anything different than what we do may. Maybe it gets a little sharper, a little like there, there's aspects of what we do that I still think if it feels like work, we need to go hire somebody to do it. Conventional retirement does not sound attractive. Yeah. No. God no. No, no, no, no.
Even, and you love golf, which is hilarious. Yeah. But I can only play a couple days a week. Exactly. So I think as, as we get a little sharper. I can see how you and I don't want to ever think about doing anything different, but there is a day where it would be nice to get the risk off the table because as business owners, a
Jim Gebhardt: hundred percent,
Matthew Grishman: you know, it's fun to be a business owner when shit's going up.
It's not as fun to be a business owner when shit's not going up,
Jim Gebhardt: and that's one of the paradoxes in all of this is that to the business owner. They don't see the business as much [00:22:00] of a risk as they do selling their cash machine and putting it in something like the stock market or the bond market, which is completely outside of their control because they've had ultimate control over their cash machine.
Why don't they see,
Matthew Grishman: well, okay, let's play with this for a second. That's the paradox. Why? Why isn't, why don't they see it as risk at this point, and we're in our fifties and sixties, why don't they see it as risk at this point?
Jim Gebhardt: Because they know it. They know how to pull the levers and pulley and make the thing work and make it sizzle and.
They're the control freaks that, that we are with our business. It's a mature business
Matthew Grishman: right now. I believe our business is less risk for you and me to be invested in than somebody else's business that's owned by public shareholders because there's a certain predictability with a mature business where there's risk is if you and I take our our capital off the table and go start something again.
There's a ton of risk in that, a startup. Sure. When I left corporate life in 2011, sure. When you walked out the [00:23:00] door of Smith Barney in oh five, sure. That's where there was a ton of risk in building the business. So they lose sight of that. We lose sight of what real risk is, and because here we are with this incredibly mature business, that doesn't feel like risk.
I look at friends and relatives who are employed by other people and they're our age. I have fear at times. Yes, I do. About the day they walk into work and somebody pulls them into HR and goes, Hey, um, Bob, um, thanks for your service. Yeah, we really appreciate the 35 years you gave to the company. Um, but we don't need you anymore.
Uh, your position's been eliminated and we'd like it if you walk back to your desk. We have two security guards that are gonna escort you and we'd like you to get all your stuff out and, uh, leave today. We'll, we'll pay you through the end of the week and thanks again for all your hard work.
Thank you for allowing that silence to exist. 'cause that just needs to like sit for a second. The gravity of that, [00:24:00] the amount of risk our friends and family members who work for other people that are exposed to that. That's where I don't see risk in my business.
Jim Gebhardt: It's a blind spot. Right, right. It's a blind spot to the employee.
Yes. That the entrepreneur traded long ago.
Matthew Grishman: Yes.
Jim Gebhardt: Now the the other paradox. Is when you have a startup and you're a kiddo.
Matthew Grishman: Yeah.
Jim Gebhardt: Like me at 35. Sure. The funny thing was that I didn't have far to fall 'cause I didn't have anything. So that's another little paradox here, is that if you start the business, let's say in your thirties.
Well, first of all, it's a startup. It isn't worth anything. Right. And
Matthew Grishman: there's very little to lose. I had
Jim Gebhardt: $12, I think, to my name. I, I had a little bit more than that, but you know, being a little facetious, but not, not too far from that. Sure. Right. And now as you [00:25:00] cascade decades forward, and now you've built a business that has value in the marketplace, right.
You sell it and you've got $50 million in your bank account. Right. That's a little farther to fall. That's the de-risking that we talk about. For the mature business right, is you reach this point of no, no. Different than a client with a truckload of stock options. Right. We have counseled over the years, plenty of people with lots of stock options.
Mm-hmm. And what's one of the very first conversations we have with them is de-risking. Yes, Sam, you have 92% of your net worth in one stock, of which you're not C-suite. Your rank and file, sure you've got a, a lovely position, but that's 92% of your asset. What I don't care who the financial advisor is just
Matthew Grishman: thinking of that gives me spi.
Jim Gebhardt: I don't care who the financial advisor is. Mm-hmm. The prudent recommendation is to de-risk and start to diversify the portfolio.
Matthew Grishman: I love when you say [00:26:00] de-risk, right. I prefer that so much more than the other D word that our industry likes to use. Default. That's the good one. I like that diversification, right?
I mean, my favorite. Yeah. I mean, I get, I,
Jim Gebhardt: I get the principle of diversification. Sure. But to me it, uh, it just has so much more meaning when you say de-risk, because that's what it is. So then you come across the client, the pers perspective client yesterday, who. Has 80 plus percent like most entrepreneurs, you and me, right out of the hymnal on that.
Yep. Have 80% of our net worth tied up in an illiquid asset that actually has value in the market, significant value in the marketplace. Yep. Well then isn't it incumbent upon the owners of that business to do what they can to de-risk and de-risk, not just in the context of, uh, perhaps, you [00:27:00] know. Sell a fraction of the business or all, all, all the things that could be related to the sale, but within the business itself, I'm, I know I'm going off an off ramp here, that's okay.
But in the business itself to help de-risk Sure. And make this place more bulletproof, well, that's
Matthew Grishman: what makes it more valuable.
Jim Gebhardt: Ah, yet this, this show is brought to you by the word Paradox, right?
Matthew Grishman: It's our new
Jim Gebhardt: series. It's our new series coming out on. Perplex it.
Matthew Grishman: Um, you're so handsome when you say paradox.
Jim Gebhardt: Yeah, but it is, yes. It, it's by the sheer fact that you, you go through an, an effort and exercise to de-risk the business. Ha ha. You created value. Yes. You, you enhanced the value of the business. Yes. Right. Now, dude, this goes to, that's a circular problem. Yes. In, in the context of now you have an asset that's worth more, and now you went from 80% of liquid to, you know, 90% of liquid because it's, you've grown the value of the business.
Right.
Matthew Grishman: You know, this goes to the core of like our [00:28:00] values and what drew us to one another when it comes to just how we approach life. Even when we were more generalists in our field and we were helping a broader scope of clientele. I mean, if, if you're with us today in the tribe and you don't own a business, you have any ounce of entrepreneurial mind in you, everybody needs to get to a place where they can identify this wealth gap, where whatever their cash flow machine is today, whether it's their business or somebody else's business.
We are replacing that cashflow machine with some other mechanism, a self-built cashflow machine. So if your current cashflow machine is, you own a business like you and I, or your current cashflow machine is somebody else's business that's pumping money into this thing called a 401k,
Jim Gebhardt: or you've got stock options and a concentrated position with RSUs and all that kind of stuff.
I mean
Matthew Grishman: you and you and I have been talking for years to those. Quote unquote assets about the fact that, yeah, offense is great. Offense is fun. Offense [00:29:00] helps us climb up this mountain to accumulate the wealth that we're accumulating. But holy cow, we're gonna win a bunch of games doing that. But defense is what wins championships by.
You, you say it. It's more than just losing less. It's, oh, it's
Jim Gebhardt: addition by
Matthew Grishman: subtraction. Addition by subtraction. What you don't own. Yeah. Is just as important as what you do own. Yeah. When it comes to making money, and if we can avoid the big drops in the market, if we can avoid the big losses, the big business investments where we lose a million dollars.
Mm-hmm. 3 million, $4 million. Right. If we can eliminate those deep losses and play defense and build a risk management approach into our investible assets, our business assets, our corporate assets, then long term, the ROI ON the investment improves. Exactly right. Defense improves the long-term ability to create [00:30:00] offense.
Jim Gebhardt: Exactly. And the concept I like here that we haven't talked a lot about, but it's a concept that was a term that I was just introduced to, oh, you're unwrapping something new is excess capacity.
Matthew Grishman: Excess capacity. Yeah.
Jim Gebhardt: And the, and this is perfect in the context of the wealth gap and this de-risking conversation, because what it's about is, as you said earlier, it's looking at.
We have this money outside of the business that can support us in re in our retirement days or our post work days. And then we have the value of this business, net, net, net, net, net right net of fees, net of transaction, net of taxes net. And that's gonna give us a bag of money that in the new manufactured cash machine can then produce this much income to support our lifestyle.
Sure. So when you figure out all that math, which is what we love to do seven days a week and twice on Sundays. This happens quite a bit, is the, the value of all those [00:31:00] assets can greatly exceed what the needs are in terms of the client spend, the annual spend, and this is where you get into this concept of excess capacity.
Ah, okay. I was so where in a portfolio, if you do want it, if you want it to. Be much more on the offense and take risk in some calculated way in someone else's startup or in someone else's private equity fund or so, you know, you've got excess capacity to do that because foundationally, you're rock
Matthew Grishman: solid.
How often are we finding people with excess capacity? Hmm. Sometimes
Jim Gebhardt: me a little bit more than sometimes.
Matthew Grishman: So excess capacity is kind of the, uh, opposite or. Antithesis, if I'm putting the emphasis on the improper sable right of wealth gap, excess capacity is the opposite of wealth gap. It,
Jim Gebhardt: well, and if you think about it, 'cause it's
Matthew Grishman: wealth surplus, right?
It's another way of saying wealth surplus if I have excess capacity.
Jim Gebhardt: And then it, it starts to [00:32:00] let you do things like, well you could take, if, if you're of this mindset, you could take even less risk with the, the, the cash, the new cash machine. You could be, oh, I got an idea. Why don't we give some of the money to the kids while we're still here and not just give them a big bag of money when they're 62?
Matthew Grishman: Sure. Yeah.
Jim Gebhardt: Or you could give some to, you know, philanthropy and, and charitable causes that you, that would be meaningful legacy to you and your family for all kinds of reasons. Sure. I'm sitting with two guys here that have had massive heart surgeries. I would imagine there's some charities associated with that, that if you had excess capacity, you'd be so inclined to, to want to.
Contribute to either the research or the, or whatever it is.
Matthew Grishman: Yeah.
Jim Gebhardt: That is so eye-opening when you start to help that business owner identify either the wealth gap or the wealth excess. Yeah. Right.
Matthew Grishman: Yeah.
Jim Gebhardt: That is super fun for you and me to do.
Matthew Grishman: Oh, absolutely. I've found more recently [00:33:00] it feels like, and, and I haven't done, you know, any specific analysis on this.
I'm just going off of what it intuitively feels like. It feels like I'm meeting more people who have wealth gap than excess capacity. They live today with excess capacity. The business is creating cash flow that's more than they need to spend and, and therefore they built in, I. Some philanthropy, some, Hey, let's use some of the cash flow to teach the children now how to be good stewards of the asset by, you know, going on these great trips together and having deep conversation about family values and what's created the wealth in this family and the, and the, you know, the behaviors and the values behind all of that.
What's interesting is as we sit down, as I've been sitting down with more and more business owners and as we're designing life 3.0, right? What's next? What is going to get us outta bed in the morning when our feet hit the floor? Like where, where is the passion, the purpose? [00:34:00] How do we identify your superpower?
Like what? What is it that makes you you when you walk in a room that you don't even know it because you're like a fish swimming in water, who doesn't know he's in water? Sure. Right. What is that and how does that become transferable to whatever you want to do next through the process of de-risking?
Right. We de-risk from the business. So that gives you the freedom from. Being attached to that business freedom to go explore how your superpowers can now be applied in a, in a different way in life. As we're getting clarity around that, like what does my life look like? Not just how am I gonna allocate my money?
'cause I, I think that's putting the cart before the horse a little bit, right? If we just go sell a business and you and I go put the old, uh, wirehouse financial advisor hat on and we give them the old, you know, spot check because of your age, you should be 70 30 and you buy this much in stock and this much in bond, that's great.
But I think we put the cart before the horse when we do that, when we need to look at. Other assets that I think make up the whole wealth. I mean, [00:35:00] this is a podcast called The Whole Wealth Journey. Perhaps we should define what whole wealth is. Part of what I see whole wealth being is you have these assets in your life that go way just beyond money.
Oh, yeah. Right. And our, and the wealth management industry, I think has done a whoopsie in, in not recognizing that we have assets that go way beyond our, our financial assets. We have, they don't
Jim Gebhardt: know how to monetize it.
Matthew Grishman: Well, I understand that. Of course. We know it's
Jim Gebhardt: a, it's a business. We know why they don't.
Financial advisors dunno how to monetize
Matthew Grishman: well. But we're a smart industry. I know we create something valuable for people, we're gonna figure out how to monetize it and I just, I'm surprised that our industry hasn't figured that out yet. Sure. So we'll be the ones to figure that out for them. We have this asset called Time And unlike money as entrepreneurs, you and I know money's a renewable resource.
We know how to go make it. Time is not something you and I have figured out how to make more of. We've figured out in some ways how to slow it down. Because it's a [00:36:00] appreciating asset over time because the supply is shrinking with every minute we're here on earth. Therefore the value, the demand goes up.
So as time goes on, the value of time, the price of time, the price of time goes up. Therefore we need to be even more careful about how we allocate it.
Jim Gebhardt: Yeah.
Matthew Grishman: Right. Our energy. How we allocate our energy, that's an asset class. We need to consider as part of our whole wealth, how do we choose to allocate our energy for like kind of, you know, our money that that is renewable?
You and I have learned ways to refill the energy tank, although it doesn't, you know, I feel like an iPhone battery, it doesn't quite refill the same amount each time. Like there's a little less each time. So I just think the battery inside of me is a little more finite. You have your experiences, right?
You, the life experiences you've had, that's an asset. That's something that defines part of your whole wealth. You have a [00:37:00] superpower, you have this thing. Dan Sullivan calls a unique ability. We call it a superpower where it's just something that makes you, you. It's unique to you. It's your superpower that when you walk in the room and you're applying this thing.
You are doing an incredible service. Happens to the world, happens, great stuff happens, there's money flowing. People are getting help. There's incredible value, and oh, you're having a blast. Mm-hmm. Right? It's fun. So I think there's some work that needs to be done that we are doing that helps people identify those other assets and how they want to allocate them in life 3.0, which then allows us to go over to the financial assets and figure out what we need to do over here.
To connect them to that,
Jim Gebhardt: to remodel it, to that
Matthew Grishman: right to drive. 'cause that's the end. I mean, look, money's the grease that makes the world go round. I'm, I'm not trying to minimize or belittle how important Sure. Money and finances are, but there's so much more to life that needs to be defined if we want to be incredibly [00:38:00] effective and efficient with how we allocate those financial resources.
Jim Gebhardt: Yeah.
Matthew Grishman: So in doing that, there's a wealth gap. I'm starting to find. As we define these asset classes where I need X amount of money to live that life, and I have less than that right now.
Jim Gebhardt: Sure. If today's show is brought to you by the word Paradox and whether you're a new listener or a long time listener, the word of the last five years of the show has been intentionality.
I.
Matthew Grishman: Yes, absolutely. And
Jim Gebhardt: everything as you just, if I encapsulate everything you just described there from the spending to the use of time, you know, to the use of energy, it's all about bringing forward intentionality because again, we know the entrepreneur we is one. It's hard to stay focused. Mm-hmm. You're running a business.
Yep. [00:39:00] Things get faster and more complex and you're growing and people are coming and going and new compliance regulations happen and oh, you need two new pieces of software now. 'cause those vaporized on you and you've gotta go through a due diligence process. We don't know anything about that. We know
Matthew Grishman: nothing about that.
Uh, that's not happening in real time or anything. And
Jim Gebhardt: you're, you're trying to grow, but you've got all this opportunity and you've gotta find the right people. And where do I get those people? And. Uh, it's so easy to be all consumed with the business, and that's where I love how we slow this down into conversations because it's just about bringing intentionality forward, right?
How many times have we sat with a business owner that when we ask them, okay, so what, you know, what do you and Martha spend? I don't know. Crickets. Yeah. I don't know. Right? Crickets. We just spend, we spend. Because we got this cash machine that, you know, just kinda just keeps spitting
Matthew Grishman: out cash,
Jim Gebhardt: right. All of that.
Right. So, you know, I'm, I'm picking on this gentleman I was talking about yesterday who had no concept [00:40:00] of what was next. Right. And it's like that would be an intentionality conversation. Let's put some energy around focusing on what, what could be next. And I think it goes back to the root of the superpower.
Sure that that is the easiest path forward is to identify what the heck is your superpower, because newsflash. That's going with you when the sale happens.
Matthew Grishman: Yeah. That's what's gonna determine what's next for you. That's
Jim Gebhardt: never you, you, the only time when you take a dirt nap is when that, when that eventually Sure is no longer the case.
Right? Yes. So that is where I like to start in trying to help somebody identify what's next when they can't see anything through the fog. Yes.
Matthew Grishman: Yes. Because that's
Jim Gebhardt: coming with him.
Matthew Grishman: Last episode, we talked a little bit about what the first step in uncovering that was. How do you remember that? Because we talked about clarity compass.
Oh, okay. How could I ever forget? Forget. That was the last episode. That was the last episode. Wow. I know. It feels like a little [00:41:00] while ago. Wow. But it wasn't that long ago. It's like two weeks ago. Okay, sure. I know two weeks is a lifetime. Oh, we get into a whole other conversation about how time's accelerating.
I think we just did that. Clarity Compass is where we start that conversation. It's where we start uncovering what your core values are. Like what? What are these essential values that that drive you every day? Because that's what if this is about connection and trust and what Chris Martin did, that's his name, right?
The lead singer called Plays. It is if there's this safety and connection that gets created, it doesn't. Happen immediately. Like, it, it takes, it takes a little bit of like warming up. And as we used to say back in our financial sobriety days, you know, we, we can't go straight to bone with people. We've gotta realize that the human body has got a few layers and it starts, you know, with the skin and there, then there's a little bit of fat and a little bit of fascia, and then there's muscle, and then under the muscle is bone.
And you have to gradually get through those layers to get to the core of that human [00:42:00] being. And if you go too fast, it's. Whoop, we're out. We're out the door. And that's where the clarity compass is kind of like, we just kind of start at the surface and gradually work our way into who you are as a human being and what really, really matters most to you.
Because when you get clear on that, I. Then you're in that kind of space of connection and trust, and I feel, wow, I'm discovering some things about myself. I'm being a little bit more intentional with how I allocate some of these resources, like time and energy and relationships and money. I. I'd sure like to understand a little more about like that superpower of mine.
'cause that's where we're hitting bone. You have to be in that place where you're willing to be brutally honest with yourself. Like you might think you're well friends are gonna help you see it. Well that's part of don't give away too much of the exercise. Yeah. You know, a little bit. But I mean, you know,
Jim Gebhardt: it's not an exercise you do in solidarity.
No,
Matthew Grishman: no. And that's where, again, connection and trust has to be in the room because there's no way to do it without. [00:43:00] Your group of blind spotters, right? Right. We're gonna teach you who your, your blind spotters are. I think we'll get a little more into that. That's coming up. Episode next or the following, where we go.
We go deep on unique ability. Ooh. And we get to do a little homage to our friend Dan Sullivan Ooh. For teaching us this. And then how we go about helping our business owner friends, uh, discover that in themselves Wealth gap. I have one. I think you have one. Where'd
Jim Gebhardt: you get
Matthew Grishman: one? Where'd I get one? Yeah. Uh, down at my local Ghar group office.
Oh, nice. Right. And, and I got a little bit from the Exit Planning Institute when we were on that little, uh, nice. That little, uh, conference. Conference, right. I, excuse me. Summit. Summit. Right. I wanted to say boondoggle, but it wasn't, it was actually a conference. It's so hard
Jim Gebhardt: to do a summit at sea level.
Matthew Grishman: Did it?
Yeah.
Jim Gebhardt: It, the summit should have been like in Colorado. We did hang out on the rooftop though a couple times, so that, okay. There you go. That summit a little bit.
Matthew Grishman: Yeah. Yeah. I, I discovered I, I have a little bit of a wealth gap. Oh, sure. Yeah. I, I realized that what I appreciate about [00:44:00] how we were taught to really understand wealth gap, much like the process of getting to unique ability wealth gap is also a step-by-step process where literally, Chris Snyder and crew at Exit Planning Institute said to us, the way you calculate wealth gap is you look at your current assets minus your business.
You don't even look at the value of the business. Just what do you have? What have you saved in the bank? What's the house worth? What are the cars worth? What's the boat worth? If you have one of those things right, what, what's your stuff worth relative to what you need? I. When I look at that to support the life,
Jim Gebhardt: to support the life you wanna
Matthew Grishman: live, that's a massive wealth gap for me.
Huge big wealth gap. Like we're talking without the business seven to eight figure, probably an eight figure wealth gap. When we look at, sure, you know what I have minus the business. Sure. Then sure, then we can actually look at what we think is the value of our business. But we often find out, as you and I are going through this very process ourselves.
That [00:45:00] sometimes we, business owners tend to feel our business is worth a little more than it really is in the open market when somebody's going to be buying it from us.
Jim Gebhardt: No different than your home when you put it up for sale.
Matthew Grishman: There you go.
Jim Gebhardt: No different than your used car when you put it up on the market.
Sure. Right. There's a natural bias over confidence bias. Um, good one. Really good one on being able to see what the real value is. Yes. So fortunately we have friends. This is their specialty. That's all they do. As one of my relatives used to say, I was like, what the hell is a specialty uhhuh? It's this, it's this is this niche.
Yes. Right. Is service to be able to come in and again, the, the intentionality around this and measuring progress in arrears, right? We can't measure progress unless we actually have a, a third party professional. Value the business where we are today. Right. Warts and all. Right.
Matthew Grishman: Warts and all. You know, it was worth zero at one point, right?
Sure. [00:46:00] So, so we're gonna be able to see some progress when we do this. Sure.
Jim Gebhardt: You know, and Bill told you his business was worth on the golf course and you're in the same industry. Well, boys and girls, uh, that doesn't mean a hill of beans when it comes to really digging in, looking under the hood and taking a deep dive.
In terms what, in terms of what's the value of your business today? And as. Every client we have ever worked with, going back to when I was 26 years old at Merrill Lynch, and I've come to learn this as part of my superpower, is I just, I like to just meet people where they're at. Right. It's, it's okay.
Matthew Grishman: Yeah.
Jim Gebhardt: If you're a mess. And you're not where you think you should be. Ha, do you know anybody that would, that you met, kind of fit that criteria that I met, that you
Matthew Grishman: met in 2005, around June 15th? That Right. Admitted to you a month later, he was a complete utter mess. Right. So wherever that led, that led nowhere,
Jim Gebhardt: wherever, wherever the business is today.
It's just, it's [00:47:00] honoring the fact that, okay, we're here it is. Here's, here's what the value of your business is today. Right. And sure, you could be, you know. Matter than a wet he for a couple of days on somebody telling you it's not worth what it's worth. I know that's right out of the Jimmy Stewart playbook of uh, one-liners, but you gotta start somewhere and you can't measure the progress unless you have someplace where you're starting.
That's the fun of it for us. Yes. Is as we start to pull in our co-conspirators or our collaborators or our friends, whatever the hell you wanna call them, that have professional expertise here. Yes. One of our, our newer clients right now who is gonna get a real open-eyed look at what is his value, what's the business worth today?
And you've already been setting the stage with him in terms of his wealth gap. Right? He's acknowledging, yes, without the data, right? Without the data. He's a smart enough guy to be able to acknowledge it and go, oh, I definitely have one of those. Yes. And guess what? Because now there's [00:48:00] focus and intentionality around it.
We can do things about it.
Matthew Grishman: You do something about it. Exactly. You can make
Jim Gebhardt: the business more efficient. You can make the business grow in different ways. Yes. And by doing so, you are ultimately making a better cash machine that would spit out more profit to you. Yes. That with intentionality, we've got 102 different ideas of where that monies could, where those monies could go.
Yes. But then the beautiful thing about all of this is at the end of the day, you've created value in the business that you're ultimately gonna sell
Matthew Grishman: more value. Even more value. Holy schmoley. Yes. More gratitude is hitting my heart right now, and it's gratitude for Bo, our friend Bo Eson. He's the first person who taught me that if any other human being's done it, I can do it too.
As long as I'm willing to put the work in. Any other human being who's accomplished something, I am capable of accomplishing it too. There's no such thing as you're born with it, it's [00:49:00] work ethic, it's bottom line. Are you willing to run the miles to get it done? And you know, I had to hang out with him for 4, 5, 6, 7 years for that to really like, for me to really believe that.
At first it was like, eh, no, LeBron James was born really, really good at basketball. But then the more I study his behavior mm-hmm. The choices he makes. He's done something no other athlete's ever done. I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you who's the best basketball player who's ever lived. 'cause I think there's even more than just he and Michael Jordan in that conversation.
There's something he's accomplished in sports that no other athlete's been able to accomplish, and it's to do it as long as he's done it because of what he's put into recovery. The amount of time and effort he's put into preparation. Oh, come on. And recovery.
Jim Gebhardt: That's bullshit,
Matthew Grishman: right? It is. Except he was just, he was, he was born gifted.
Right? He was gifted. Right. Uh, which would've gone right to his kid then.
Jim Gebhardt: Mm.
Matthew Grishman: Right. I mean, bro's just as gifted as his dad, right? I guess not. Oh, is it that he's [00:50:00] not as gifted as his dad or he doesn't have the same work ethic as his dad?
Jim Gebhardt: I have not a clue and I have
Matthew Grishman: not a clue either clue. 'cause I don know, clue the kid.
But if what Bo taught me is true, Hmm. Hey, Bronny, you gotta work a little harder if you want. What? Your dad has
Jim Gebhardt: nothing Replaces work ethic,
Matthew Grishman: right? So why am I saying this? If we identify our business value at half of what we thought it was,
Jim Gebhardt: that's okay.
Matthew Grishman: We can get in the gap. Get really stuck with that. Oh, yeah.
And it could take us out. Oh yeah. And we could argue, well, that's a bunch of bullshit, right? Yeah. Your people don't know anything and I, they don't know my business. Denial, denial, denial. And this is where connection and trust have to be. I mean, when you, when you shared with me, when you held up the mirror and showed me the truth.
Of who was responsible for all the shit I was in and all the problems I had created. And I got to see for the first time in my life that I am responsible for my own destiny and that it's not other [00:51:00] people who did this to me, right? I'm, I'm not a victim, right? And, and, and, and no one's coming to save you.
And no one's coming to save me. I'm either digging myself out of this hole or I'm, uh, that's what we should
Jim Gebhardt: have done, is we should have gone straight to Ace Hardware. And just bought shovels and bought you a just a beautiful shovel. You did. You did. Yeah.
Matthew Grishman: That. So that's what our new trophies at work need to be.
They need to be shovels. Golden shovel. Whens people accomplish stuff? Shovel. Yeah. Let's buy, let's see. Good ideas. Come outta this studio. You can stay in the gap. It can take you out, or you can get in the game. Great. Book The Gap or the game. Dan Sullivan and Dr. Benjamin Hardy. Ben Hardy, that's right. Great book.
Uh, highly recommend it. We get nothing for that other zero than a smarter, more capable tribe Yes. Of people around us. So please go pick it up and read it. You can get in the gain, which is I. If somebody else has doubled the value of their business, or even better, go read, 10 x is easier than two x.
Another book by Sullivan just thrown out books today, Ben Hardy, right? Uh, 10 x If we were to 10 x the value of our [00:52:00] business. Is that possible? Well, if any other business owner's ever done it. Then it is possible. And there's this group of businesses that exist out there. This is where our friends in the value acceleration world, those business consultants we were talking about, they specialize in helping businesses understand what their multiple is and the range of values that their business could be worth based on.
Are you best in class? Are you average? Are you below average? Yes. And if your business is worth half of what you think it is. Chances are you're not a best in class business, which we'll talk a little bit about here in a second. So if there are best in class businesses, there's a playbook. You, you wanna go be the best basketball player in the world, then go figure out who the best basketball player in the world is and go live their, go live your life the way they live their life.
Bring that into existence today. Start living that way today and eventually the rest of the world will catch up. Right? Thank you Bo, for teaching us that. Thank you
Jim Gebhardt: Bo, for that.
Matthew Grishman: So let's go identify what the best in class businesses in your [00:53:00] industry look like. What's their human capital? What's their customer capital?
What's their structural capital? What's their social capital? These intangibles that you can't find on a balance sheet. What do those things look like and how do we replicate that inside of your business? And then how much time do we need to do that? And we break that down into these kind of 90 day blocks of time that we're going to set certain, you know, how do you eat an elephant?
One bite at a time, Bob. Bingo. So every 90 days we're gonna take another bite outta this big goal of closing that wealth gap. Because again, if any business has been there, you can too. Yeah. But you gotta get out of the gap and get into the game
Jim Gebhardt: to see that. Well, and, and to, to also come out of the cave.
Right. We also have fun with Tom Hanks and Castaway talking to the volleyball. Yes.
Matthew Grishman: Oh
Jim Gebhardt: Jesus. Yes. Right. And come out of, come out of that cave as the business [00:54:00] owner. Because now you're gonna start to get metrics, right? You're gonna get metrics, not on just the, the four intangibles, which really represent probably 80% of the value of the business.
Hell, yes, it does. But then you're gonna start to get metrics on the profitability of your business in your industry, and what a potential buyer, strategic or otherwise, would look at it and go, okay, this is, this is best in class, given they're, yes, they're, they're operating at a 40% margin in best in class.
You're at 29%. So you can put a little emphasis on how do we make that profit number all that much better? And through efficiency and growth and other things that you can do to start to tick up your margin to get closer, starts to move you in the direction of best in class and not necessarily, and again, if you have the clarity of knowing what's your wealth gap.
You don't necessarily have to get all the way to the best in class number.
Matthew Grishman: No,
Jim Gebhardt: no. Right. You may find you're not [00:55:00] that far away because also, keep in mind, you're trying to get this business to grow. Right. It's not just plateauing this thing and making it as efficient and as profitable as it can be. Well, it's about
Matthew Grishman: increasing its value, which ultimately grows the business.
Which Right. Creates. Which creates is why
Jim Gebhardt: de-risking, de-risking comes before building.
Matthew Grishman: Right. Well, of course, right. That's absolutely, well, it's of
Jim Gebhardt: course for us, yes. But if you. Go back. Not too far in our playbook, we would be just head down wanting to grow and not necessarily
Matthew Grishman: de-risking well. But sure dude, as a couple of guys who are regaining their health in the gym, you and I can't go in and start deadlifting our own body weight without de-risking, without getting some basic core.
Capabilities in the gym. Right? You, you, you know, we, we started with bands and our own body weight before we started getting on the racks and squatting and you know, deadlifting and hack squatting and tight R dls and you know, all these like goofy things we [00:56:00] did. We didn't start there, right? We had to de-risk and stabilize and get the base de-risking the business is how we stabilize things before we start building it bigger so we can shrink that wealth gap.
Absolutely. Well, wealth gap. Gratitude. Well, paradox. Intentionality. Lots of themes today. Sure. We could write all these words down. Are you curious about your wealth gap? Do you want to become more curious about your wealth gap? I. Are you willing to look at it? You may have excess capacity, you may have a wealth gap.
Is it time to just take a peak? Because even if you're not planning on selling the business in the next year or two, exit planning is just good business strategy, right? What you need hundred percent, what you need to exit is what you need to grow. Are you willing to take a peek at your wealth gap? Pick up the phone and give us a call, 8 7 7 2 8 3 91 50.
You could click in the show notes, uh, text link to connect with [00:57:00] us digitally if you prefer. We're, as Jim said, thanks to American Funds, a couple of old fashioned telephone guys, but we're also stepping up to the digital age, so if you prefer to send us a text message, please do it. Thank you for joining us today, and with that, my friend, that's a wrap.
Thanks for joining us today on the whole Wealth Journey. Are you ready to start planning for a future that's rich in wealth and wellbeing? Then click like and subscribe and make sure you don't miss a single episode of the Whole Wealth Journey. So if we've struck a nerve with you today, where do people go?
You can find us at gib hart whole wealth.com. That's G-E-B-H-A-R-D-T whole wealth.com. We'll see you next time.
Jeff Holden: Jim Gab Hart is a registered representative of Integrity Alliance, LLC. Securities and Investment Advisory Services offered through Integrity Alliance, LLC, member [00:58:00] SIPC. Gab Hart Group Incorporated is not affiliated with Integrity Wealth.
Jim Gab Hart and Matthew Grishman are investment advisor representatives of Gab Hart Group Incorporated a registered investment advisor. The opinions in this podcast are for informational purposes only and are not intended to provide specific advice or investment recommendations to determine which investment or financial advice may be appropriate for you.
Consult a financial advisor prior to investing. Any reference to market performance is based on historical information and there is no expressed or implied guarantee of future performance. Opinions expressed on this program do not necessarily reflect those of Integrity Alliance LLC. The topics discussed and opinions given are not intended to address the specific needs of any listener.
Gbb Hart Group Incorporated does not offer legal or tax advice. Listeners are encouraged to discuss their financial needs with the [00:59:00] appropriate professional regarding your individual circumstance.