Episode 146: The Epicenter of Wealth Begins With an Understanding of Gratitude.

Feeling overwhelmed by the general hustle of, well, life? Picture a reality where slowing down is the key to unlocking success and personal growth. In this episode Matthew and Jim explore this concept with a blend of descriptive themes and personal anecdotes. The program begins with reflection on a conversation with a young quantitative finance MBA student, who ahared fresh insights into the realms of AI, cryptocurrency, and Tesla's self-driving innovations. Lightheartedly, the guys ponder the surreal sensation of living in a world reminiscent of "The Jetsons" as they embrace the New Year with a "Say No More List" – a counterintuitive approach inspired by thought leaders like Bo Eason and Dan Sullivan.

In the pursuit of success, does rushing ever really help? There's an art to slowing down, not just as a mantra for mental peace but as a practical strategy for error reduction and quality improvement in both personal and professional arenas. With the support of an accountability partner, Matthew shares his commitment to breaking free from the tyranny of hurriedness, focusing on mindfulness and intention. The conversation also highlights the parallels between opting for slower, healthier lifestyle choices and the broader implications for personal well-being, reinforcing the idea that quality often trumps quantity.

Reflecting on the essence of true wealth, the conversation shifts to the power of gratitude as a cornerstone for building meaningful connections. Gratitude, once a simple feeling, has evolved into a practice that fortifies relationships and enriches lives beyond mere financial metrics. Through personal stories and reflections, the emphasis on the importance of gratitude in fostering trust, empathy, and genuine human connection becomes abundantly clear. Finally, you're invited to share your own gratitude experiences, enriching the Whole Wealth Journey community with stories that underscore the value of relationships in achieving a fuller, more connected life that is more than just making more money with your money.

Chapter Summaries
(00:00) New Year's Resolutions and Saying No
AI, cryptocurrency, and Tesla's self-driving technology intersect in a futuristic discussion on aging, active adult communities, and personal growth.

(06:02) Slowing Down for Success
Slowing down leads to fewer mistakes and improved interactions, emphasizing quality over quantity and making mindful choices.

(12:56) Unleashing the Power of Investment
Commitment to health, gratitude, aligning finances with values, and personal and professional growth through preparation and practice.

(23:30) Connecting With True Wealth Through Relationships
Naysayers' influence, wealth with a Y, relationships, intimate connections, energy, aligning values, building true wealth through meaningful relationships.

(30:56) The Power of Gratitude in Connection
Gratitude is a key component of human connection, ingrained in daily routines and important in responding to life's challenges.

(45:56) Building Connection Through Gratitude and Trust
Gratitude, vulnerability, and curiosity are key to strengthening relationships and bridging differences in a world of diminishing connection.

(50:10) Text Us Your Gratitude Experiences
Listeners can share gratitude experiences via text to enhance future discussions on vulnerability, trust, and true wealth.

You can learn more about The Whole Wealth Journey by visiting The Gebhardt Group. You can follow us on Instagram @thewholewealthjourney

Transcript

Jim Gebhardt: [00:00:00] We cannot stress this enough is in the same context as of that. We need to define the difference between expensive and costly. We need to define the difference between an investment and an expense. Yes. If you continue to look at everything in your life as an expense, you will fail.

Welcome to the whole wealth journey. 

Matthew Grishman: Wealth with a Y. What does that mean? What 

Jim Gebhardt: does 

Matthew Grishman: that mean? Are we spelling it funny? Uh, no, I think we're using the word. Why the word? Why? Okay, not the letter. Why the actual word? Why? 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, I know why. Why? Because we want to help people get on their path. Then the path is all about their why.

Matthew Grishman: And it's about aligning your finances with The people, the experience and the passions that give their lives true 

Jim Gebhardt: meaning. It's getting way beyond the bank statements, the brokerage statements, the trust [00:01:00] documents, the life insurance, and taking a deeper dive into your why. 

Matthew Grishman: Well, admittedly, we're not for everyone.

This is different. We're for the bold ones who really want to dive deeper and seek a life that resonates with who they really are at their core. Who finds value in vulnerability. 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, you 

Matthew Grishman: and I do 

Jim Gebhardt: you and I do and that's where we want to play, but not everybody is comfortable with that vulnerability.

Matthew Grishman: Maybe we should introduce ourselves. What do you think? Oh, that's a good idea. Jim Gebhardt and I'm Matthew Grishman. We are the co creators of the podcast, The Whole Wealth Journey. Ready to find your why? Then let's get started and get you one step closer to unlocking your inner wealth and wellbeing.

Jim Gebhardt: I had a very interesting conversation about a week ago with the 27 year old son of a good friend of mine, who he happens to be a quantitative finance MBA student at a [00:02:00] school back East. Nice. And we got into this conversation around AI and cryptocurrency and where AI is going and what they're doing. And how, what Tesla is doing with their, uh, with their self driving now is not camera based per se.

And this is way beyond my pay grade with what I'm about to say next. But it is developing a sense of vision and reaction that is not necessarily camera based. Huh. Yeah. Anyway, that's how I got here in my flying car since it's 2025 and the Jetsons are, uh, making a comeback. Right. Uh, with the futuristic stuff.

It just feels 

Matthew Grishman: weird to say. You think about, like, the 90s. You know, that was like 20 years ago, right? When we were in the 90s. Close. Uh huh, right? When I think of 20 years ago, and we're still in the 21st century, that's incredible. So, happy New Year, and happy belated birthday. 

Jim Gebhardt: Thank you very much. Right? How was it?

Speed limit, the speed limit is [00:03:00] just fine at 55. Beth and I are now looking at active adult communities. Are you Grant's going to have to live at, uh, somewhere else in a, you know, with a seven day cat feeder. Yeah. Because we're going to be in the active adult communities here in the Serengeti Hills. Nice.

I don't know. 

Matthew Grishman: That's beautiful. You guys join AARP yet? 

Jim Gebhardt: No, they send you that stuff when you're a fitty. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. Well, I was going to say, have you, have they broken you yet? Have you become a member yet? 

Jim Gebhardt: No, but I am looking forward to the first time I get a discount on my cup of coffee. 

Matthew Grishman: Well, I was going to say, you get a 10 percent discount at Denny's and Bobby Rubino's and all the lovely early bird.

Golden Corral? Yeah, probably. 

Jim Gebhardt: Cracker Barrel? 

Matthew Grishman: Probably. All the 

Jim Gebhardt: places you and I 

Matthew Grishman: go. Fancy. I swear we will never walk in a day in our life. How are your New Year's resolutions going? Oh, they're going fabulous because I don't have none. That away. Yeah. New Year's resolutions suck. I don't do those anymore.

Yeah. Because, because for me, New Year's resolutions and, you know, we've shared this before, the, the minute I fail, cause it's inevitable, right? At some point, I'm going to set a [00:04:00] resolution that I'm doing this or I'm not doing that. And I'm human, so at some point, I'm gonna F it all up and not do it, and then if it's a resolution, I'm done.

Right? I'm done. I'm just, I give up. It's, it's over. I can't do it. Almost like an absolution. Absolutely. That's what we should call them. New Year's absolutions. Look at that little inter Catholic in you coming out today. It's coming out, Monsignor. I'm telling you, the Gentiles is going to happen, people, if you were with us on the Christmas Eve episode.

I see, I see great things for us in 

Jim Gebhardt: 2025. ha'olam. 

Matthew Grishman: Now don't. Don't be fooled, because it's going to be your job to guess who's who. Gesundheit. Oive. Right? Oive is mere gesucht. Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Play ball. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done. Right? There you go. I'll go, I'll go jab for jab with you, brother.

Absolutely. Oh, I love our universal love. So you don't do, you 

Jim Gebhardt: don't do New Year's absolutions? [00:05:00] No. No, no, 

Matthew Grishman: no, no. We have this little list. It's called the Say No More list. And it's how we measure progress. It's how we. Get a little bit better this year. And Lindsay on our team is one of my big accountability partners for the one thing I've added to my say no more list this year.

I've only put one thing on the list. Now 

Jim Gebhardt: I know what it is. You do. Did she share it with you? No, but you had them in your bag. The last episode we were here. I did. Yeah. Chocolate potato 

Matthew Grishman: chips. Right. Yeah. You said, you said no to those. I did. So that was last year though. 

Jim Gebhardt: Okay. 

Matthew Grishman: So I have one. 

Jim Gebhardt: Oh, this is a new one.

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. It's 2025. Sure. I don't make this list until I get, I mean, I think, right. I just, I start thinking, what are the things I really need to say no to? Because it, and let me also say part of the Genesis of where this whole say no more came from is that, you know, you, you and I, we, we. We like to grow. We're entrepreneurs.

We're builders. We're, you know, we're lifelong [00:06:00] students. Yeah, we're just always trying to learn and grow. So we go to these conferences. We go to these training events. We hire these coaches. And we invest a substantial amount of money to go be with these people in these places. And I've shared this with you, one of the things I always walk away with from those traditional events in the past, is this feeling of less than.

This, I'm not doing enough, there's so much more I have to be doing. Right? We'll go to an industry conference where they'll show all the cool new Oh, I just did one. Right, right. All the cool new stuff in our business that we need to know about. And all of a sudden I feel overwhelmed with, Holy cow, I got so much to do.

Until we met Bo Eason. And he was the very first person who put on a little dog and pony show down in La Jolla with this idea of, no, no, no, no. Less is more. It's not about doing more, it's about doing less. Dan Sullivan, strategic coach. Unique ability. Right? Different messenger. [00:07:00] Messenger. Similar, similar message.

Who, not how. Absolutely. That's part of doing less. That's what I mean. Right? Yeah. And unique ability, right? Figuring out what it is that you're supposed to be spending 70, 80, 90 percent of your time doing because you're great at it, you love it, it helps people. And it probably brings a couple of dollars in the door, right?

So if all of a sudden now, instead of doing more, I do less to focus on that, life gets a lot better, right? The 

Jim Gebhardt: Japanese have a word for this. 

Matthew Grishman: Is it ikigai? Very good. Thank you. Yes. Nice. Yes. The, the ikigai is, uh, it's strong in this one. So the say no more list is something that kind of happens over time.

And there's no like deadline of when the new one has to be there. So I've thought of one for 2025. 

Jim Gebhardt: Okay. 

Matthew Grishman: No more hurrying. No more rushing. Even when I'm late. It just, [00:08:00] it's so unhealthy for me and I see how it affects other people. And one of the reasons why I asked Lindsay to be my accountability partner on this is because I see it so often when I'm speaking with her.

We have our Monday call, every Monday at noon, which I'm usually coming in hot from being at the gym for a couple hours on Monday, getting my head and body straight so that I can actually show up in the week as a helpful human being. And she is my very first, what I would call, performance of the week.

And not, not a performance from a standpoint of traditional. But just first like business person that I'm engaging with for the week and I'm coming in hot and I'm I'm going a million miles an hour and I can sense I've seen that once or thrice how that overwhelms her at times. And I asked her about that.

Like, Oh, yeah, you go fast. Okay, we're going to slow down a little bit. But the way we're going to slow down is by eliminating the need to feel hurried. And I asked her, would you be okay helping me with [00:09:00] that? As you see me? Trying to hurry, trying to rush, hey, slow down, are you okay doing that? And she said, absolutely.

So it's pretty cool when you can identify something like that. Now, does that mean I'll never hurry for the rest of 2025? Sure. I hope so, but the reality is I'm human. Yeah. Right? And I'm going to hurry at some point and catch myself. Yeah. Like I'm doing right now, I feel myself hurrying through this whole little spiel right now.

Jim Gebhardt: Well, I mean, You're, as is often the case, when someone's telling a story, I'm in my head, right? Bo, Bo introduced us to that concept. I'm in my head, my story. And I have Jim Kelly, God bless him, going through my head with his famous phrase, Slow down to go faster. Yeah, 

Matthew Grishman: there 

Jim Gebhardt: you 

Matthew Grishman: go. 

Jim Gebhardt: The concept of going faster or rushing or hurrying because you somehow feel as though you're going to catch up, is counterproductive.

It's counterintuitive and it's counterproductive. You actually have to slow [00:10:00] down. What happens when people traditionally go fast is they make mistakes. Yes. Balls are dropped, mistakes happen. Things are forgotten. I mean, come on. Anybody who's listening to this, you've done it a million times in your life.

I do too. And I, and I, I try to build little. Protocols for how that doesn't happen, right? So, for instance, I'm charging my iPad, which happens to be in our laundry room, but my bag and everything else is in the dining room. The number of times I have left The charged, now charged iPad that I live on, and I've had to go home.

So what do I do now is I put my keys on the iPad. Can't leave the house without them. If it's not the keys, it's the wall. It's the, it's the iPhone y thing. The iPhone. I leave the iPhone on it. 

Matthew Grishman: There you go. 

Jim Gebhardt: Right? I can charge it there. Yeah. So [00:11:00] anyway, this whole concept of, of not rushing, I, I love it. I think as a, as an absolutism or whatever we're calling the, the say no more.

Yes. Yes. That's beautiful. 

Matthew Grishman: I just want to be able to sit here with you a year from now and look back and be able to see that I hurried less. 

Jim Gebhardt: Yeah. 

Matthew Grishman: Right? I heard this, my old friend Brian Soto, when we coached baseball together, he used to say to the kids, be quick, but don't rush, especially in the infield, right?

Be quick, but don't rush. Because as you know, you're right. It, it. When we rush, when we hurry, it invites mistakes. I found myself doing this in the gym a couple of days ago. Where I'm looking at the time, Ooh, you can injure 

Jim Gebhardt: yourself 

Matthew Grishman: very badly. I'm at the end of my leg workout, doing these little calf raises, where I'm supposed to do these tempo reps, where I'm going up, I start really low, where I stretch out the whole calf, and then come up halfway, pause.

Go back down all the way to the bottom stretch with a three count, right? So they're these slow, burn the [00:12:00] crap out of yourself. Sure. And you're looking at the 

Jim Gebhardt: clock going tickety tock tock. 

Matthew Grishman: I can't do 12 of these. Oh my God. I better. And I found myself starting to rush through and then I stopped. Hang on.

How about we get four quality reps in and then honor the time commitment that I got to get out of here. Okay. I didn't get all 12 in. But I'm better off getting four quality reps in than rushing through 12 and potentially ripping a muscle. Sure. And then I'm out of the gym now for two months. Sure. Right?

Jim Gebhardt: 100%. 

Matthew Grishman: So there, there's so much benefit to myself, to the people around me, that if I just slow everything down by saying no to hurry, that'll be a huge accomplishment for me this year. That's a doozy. Just to make progress. I love it. Absolutely. How are you doing on the, uh, the old New Year's resolution list?

Jim Gebhardt: You know, I don't have a new one to add to that. You have a more developed list of say no mores than I do. 

Matthew Grishman: Hmm. 

Jim Gebhardt: I think of them more in the context of principles. And I'm envious of the [00:13:00] list that you've created. I mean, for example, we've talked about no fast food on, you know, say no, say no more to fast food.

Yeah. And at this point in my journey, that's built in. That's like the old, the great Intel commercials, Intel inside. Yeah. Right. I just, I just don't. Right. I just don't, I don't eat fast food. 

Matthew Grishman: Right. Well, you've been programmed to finally see the poison that it is. 

Jim Gebhardt: Yeah. And it's now, it's enough in my, in my being that I just, I just don't do it.

Yes. Right. And so I don't have the, the, the specificity to the list that the way you do. But what I'm, what I'm enjoying is all of the energy that I've put into my, my health and fitness in 2024 and what I'm, I haven't, I haven't found it yet, but what I'm looking for in 2025 and the healthiest, fittest people I know.

Train for something sure. And I don't have anything that I'm training for. Ah, [00:14:00] and I am kind of going through a thought process of what is that going to be for me in, in 2025 as a 55 year old. Okay. And I've been given some nominations and I am processing and, and, and remembering my old tale of Dr. Frank Bersani and I can't, uh, and trying to set that aside and, and honoring it.

For what it's done for me in the prior part of my life, it's like, okay, you know, the thought of running a 5k with my knee and the condition that that's in seems like an, I can't, but I know it's not sure. Right. So anyway, that's one of the things I'm exploring here in the, in the new year is what am I going to train for?

Nice. 

Matthew Grishman: Very nice. 

Jim Gebhardt: And then I don't want it to be. You know, here it is September and I'm training for something in November. That's too far out. For me. Yeah. I'd like something. You know, maybe I get a two for this year. I get, I get two things that I, you know, an April, May and a, you know, October, November. Sure.

So we're [00:15:00] having fun with that. 

Matthew Grishman: Sure. Well, and one of the things you have been training for, it's not, again, it's not within the, you know, the normal bounds of some athletic accomplishment like a, like a 5k or a marathon, but something you've been very specifically training for is to honor some components to our partnership that you and I are both trying to button up from the business.

And that. That might be some pretty important stuff to be training for. Yeah, 

Jim Gebhardt: it, it, it is definitely in a different context. Totally. It's not 

Matthew Grishman: a date on the calendar, right? It's different. And 

Jim Gebhardt: it's not an event. Correct. It's, 

Matthew Grishman: it's different. 

Jim Gebhardt: No, but it's a big old checkbox. 

Matthew Grishman: Right. There's a, just so we're both very clear on the motivation behind the whole 2024.

Significant investment in our health is this realization that there are a significant number of people who depend on us to show up. And knowing that you and I want to be less dependent upon to show [00:16:00] up, that we love to teach others how to do what we do. That's one of the big things we're going to work on in 2025.

Absolutely. Is, is inviting more people from our industry who want to do it the way we do it to come be a part of this thing that we've created and learn how to do what we do. Absolutely. You know, we, we have a significant amount of relevance to our business and our families, our staff, our clients, our community.

They want us to be healthy and be engaged and, and, and bring the skills and the unique abilities that we've developed. 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, unfortunately you and I both now want that too. 

Matthew Grishman: Yes. 

Jim Gebhardt: I can't as though, I can't say as though you and I always wanted that. 

Matthew Grishman: Right. 

Jim Gebhardt: Oh no. Because of the work and the effort that goes into having that result.

Isn't quite as funner as what we used to do. 

Matthew Grishman: Yes. 

Jim Gebhardt: Oh, 

Matthew Grishman: absolutely. Bringing back, bringing our old friend Bo back, one of the things that I think has helped us a little bit, I had a recent, I don't want a day. Oh, sure. I just, I don't wanna. Oh, [00:17:00] sure. But he always talked to us about changing our relationship with practice, changing our relationship with pain, changing our relationship with preparation, and learning how to love it.

And the only way that that's been able to happen for me, Is by experiencing some of the benefit of the preparation and the work. 

Jim Gebhardt: And even if it's a couple of droplets. Yes. Of the sweetness. Yes. Yes, it will get you to do a fricking Romanian deadlift or a goblet squat or some horrific, torturous exercise that someone has created.

Yes, God damn Jack LaLanne. Um, but yeah, no, it, it, and once you connect the dots on that, it's, it's, It's almost like that thing, you know, like what they always say, you know, once you've seen it, you can't unsee it. Right. Right? It's like, once you've seen the progress and you feel what that feels like, you just want more of it.

Yes. And I'm willing to go push through the days when I don't wanna. Yes. And, you know, there's two feet of snow outside and you've [00:18:00] got to shovel the driveway and you've got to shovel the car and put your galoshes on, oh, that's right, that's for other people on the east coast. 

Matthew Grishman: Well, for our listeners who aren't in California, that's exactly what they're experiencing.

Jim Gebhardt: Right. So I, I totally get it. 

Matthew Grishman: Well, this is, this is stuff we're going to be exploring a lot more because I know just from my own experience, your experience, Ace's experience, That at times I've been stuck and I know that there are members of our tribe who are with us today on the whole wealth journey who are a little stuck in this space and it's okay, right?

People who are with us who are wildly successful in so many areas of their life. Wildly successful in business. Wildly successful at raising children. Wildly successful At fill in the blank, whatever it is, but somewhere, there's a little bit of stuck. I can't seem to go to the gym. I can't seem to put the donut down.

I can't seem to Shred the credit card. Yeah. I can't seem to figure out communication with my spouse, right? There are always, and that's the whole [00:19:00] point of the gratitude exercise, is to find An aspect of my life where I can feel this sense of gratitude and get incredibly present in the moment. But that's, that's going to be a big part of what we uncover going forward in the show this year.

We kind of spent the second half of 2024 diving into that relationship with money and taking our entrepreneurial tribe through the whole wealth journey process, the financial side. journey process where we help people get a lot of clarity around how their financial resources can best support. The people, the passions, the purpose, all of the things that really mean the most at the end of the day, right?

How, how do we connect the dots between our money and what gives us great meaning? Yeah. And, and what we're kind of kicking off the year with now is, is pivoting. So I want to, in effect, do this kind of ceremonial check the box, right? We, we, we now get to check the financial houses in order box. If [00:20:00] you've been with us since around July 1st of last year, And you've taken the suggestions of how to look at your wealth, how to unpack your story, how to kind of, 

Jim Gebhardt: well, how to align your values with your money and live more intentionally with your money.

Yes. Right. I mean, we talk all the time about the nature of the entrepreneur that we love to, to work with is someone that wants more from their money than just more money. Right. I say that slowly. Because it's something you probably the first time you hear it, you have to think about it. What do you, what do you mean?

I want, what, what, what do you mean? I want more from my money than more money. Well, I would just in the context of it growing and multiplying and growing and multiplying the book review that we're going to do is going to speak to this because it's really about an intentionality. And we've always talked on the show about being intentional with your money.

This is now when you, when you bring your values into the, to the conversation. And [00:21:00] if you have a partner. It's aligning those common values, right? Your individual values are still critically important, but now actually using the money. I mean, let's, let's use you and me as an example of how the investment that we've made has been very significant in our health, coaching and testing and consulting and peptides and supplements and workouts.

And you know what I mean? It's, it's. 

Matthew Grishman: Memberships, and conferences, and airplane tickets, and hotel rooms, and food. And better food? Healthy food's expensive. Sorry, healthy food's costly. Costly. It's not expensive. Very nice. We'll get to that. Ace, make a note. We gotta, we gotta delineate and try the difference between what's expensive and what's costly.

Yes. 

Jim Gebhardt: But you need to say it in the most beautiful French accent, which that was terrible what I just did. Yeah. Not bad. I can't even imagine two years ago, [00:22:00] certainly not a year ago, given where you were health wise just in terms of your, your physical pain. But even to go back two years and say that we would be not just able, but willing to make that kind of an investment in, in both of our health regimes.

Extraordinary. 

Matthew Grishman: And to be supported by our people in doing that. Yeah. Little, little pushback at times, but as the result. 

Jim Gebhardt: We cannot stress this enough, is in the same context is that we need to define the difference between expensive and costly. We need to define the difference between an investment and an expense.

Yes. If you continue to look at everything in your life as an expense, you will fail. Absolutely. You have to get over, I'm getting very hot about this, you have got to take the time to work on it, seeing it as an investment in you, in your people, in your process, in your company, in whatever it is that you're passionate about.

It can't [00:23:00] be considered an expense. Because it will bring in scarcity, it will bring in lack, it will suck the confidence out of you. And when you can consistently do that and flip it into the context of an investment, and I'm not trying to say this in an arrogant way that that's flippant about spending money, that's not the point of the rant.

No, 

Matthew Grishman: no, no. The 

Jim Gebhardt: point of the rant is it's a mindset shift. So much of this is mindset. And getting your mindset right around how do you. I mean, I've seen it with myself and my wife. How do you, well, I, I can't, well, what do you mean you can't? Well, that's a lot of money. Okay. What do you want to feel better? Do you want to be healthier?

What's that worth? What's, what is that worth to you? Sure. Right. I heard this line the other day on an Instagram reel. You know what? This is the youngest we are ever going to be again, right now. [00:24:00] 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. 

Jim Gebhardt: And when I see guys at the gym every morning that are 10 years, 20 years, Actually, there's, there's a couple of dudes, 30 years of my senior, mid 80s showing up at the gym every day.

That inspires the bejesus out of me. And it's, it's just this mindset shift around. How do you view the investment? It's a choice. The cost, excuse me. Right. How do you, how do you view the, the cost? It's a choice. 

Matthew Grishman: You have chosen to see things a different way. So I mean, well, Jim, how do I do that? You make a choice and you have to practice.

Again. And again, and again, and again, and again, you have to surround yourself with people who are going to support you much the way I don't want to hurry anymore. I know I can't do that by myself, right? How am I not going to hurry anymore? I don't know. For me, the answer is a lot more who than how? Yeah.

Who's going to help me? Why worry anymore? 

Jim Gebhardt: I love I love [00:25:00] your point on the. Surrounding yourself with, with the right people. Absolutely. Right. And we've talked many times about the concept of the energy that you get from people and certain people take it and being mindful and intentional around who you're spending your time with because, and some of them might be in your very own family, as Bo used to say all the time, those naysayers, those Nelly negatives that are just persistent with, you can't do that.

You can't do that. Right. I've got them in my family. I know you've got them in your family. Beth has them in her family. It's just nature. 

Matthew Grishman: Well, we're, we're, and we're going to address that because where, where we're kind of going with the conversation, I appreciate that you brought up potentially people in my immediate family.

I have to be aware of how they influence my thinking. I have to be aware of how everybody in my life can influence my thinking. And so the next few episodes, we're going to kind of kick the year off with looking at wealth [00:26:00] through a whole different lens. You, you talk about the entrepreneur who wants more from their money than just more money.

What that boils down to brother is wealth with a Y, right? Yeah. So what is that Y? a website for that. We should. We should put it on the website. In fact, I think if you go to Gebhardt, whole wealth. com or. Gebhardtgroupinc. com, depending on how your fingers want to find us, either one of those two URLs will take you to a website that is all about wealth with a Y and an opportunity to connect more intimately with us where we can actually have a two way conversation versus this kind of a monologue that comes out of studio from you and me just kibitzing like this, there's.

This epicenter, I believe, and I got to write about this in my book back in 2019 when I wrote the book, Financial Sobriety, that I believe the epicenter of wealth is all about [00:27:00] how we connect with people. Right? And so, when we look at this relationship that we have with people and how much of our wealth, This feeling of wealth.

I'm not talking necessarily about quantifiable wealth, I'm talking about this richness, this feeling of being wealthy because of the relationships in my life and the awareness I have about how those relationships serve me and how I serve those relationships. So we're, we're going to get into a dialogue, not today, probably an episode or three or four down the road.

Uh, this concept of concentric circles where we can actually look at. The different layers of relationship in our lives and, and really identify who the people are that occupy these different layers of relationship and, and what that really means as far as how I get to use my financial resources to support these relationships.

What's an appropriate way to use those financial resources given where those layers of relationship exist in my life. And that's 

Jim Gebhardt: some of the blind spot [00:28:00] work that you and I absolutely love to do because it's connecting the dots that people can't see for themselves. 

Matthew Grishman: Absolutely. Even before we do that, I think there's some foundational work that for the next couple of episodes when we talk about this idea of the epicenter of true wealth and this idea that the epicenter of true wealth, I mean, this, this isn't a secret, we're not making this some big, you know, cliffhanging punchline.

The epicenter of true wealth is connecting with others. We're, we're pack animals. It's just whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, right? We, we, we've, we've talked about this and we'll talk about it again. I always thought, and this was so much of my frustration in life, that I was an extrovert who just couldn't seem to figure out how to be comfortable in my own skin as an extrovert.

When in fact, we've learned that I'm not. I'm an extroverted introvert. Where I get all of my energy is when I'm by myself. It's where I refill the tank. When I'm by myself or in a one on one. My most intimate of relationships, the handful of people that are on my most inside circle are what you [00:29:00] and I call the 2 a.

m. club. When I'm with those people one on one, there's there's something that happens where I just I feel my tank filling up. And so just getting comfortable in my own skin and recognizing that the center of my wealth and feeling wealthy is about the quality of the connections I have with other people in in my world and and sometimes that's just one or two or three other people.

Uh, some of us have smaller worlds of people than others, but that epicenter and what drives the connection between people is something that I'd like to spend the next few episodes really flushing out. And we kind of have been doing this subtly in every episode since 2019. Yeah. And it's what do you and I share and, and we've intentionally not done that yet today.

We haven't talked about the G word yet. 

Jim Gebhardt: Right. But before we get to the G word. Okay. for having me. Beth is the one that kind of taught me that concept of. Connection and who do you spend time with [00:30:00] that fills your tank? Oh, and we over the holidays, we just had a little, we had an interesting conversation.

Okay. That was How we're never invited to any holiday parties and she was bemoaning the fact that we're not invited to any holiday parties 

Matthew Grishman: And 

Jim Gebhardt: it was a very fun Uh role reversal where I got to look at her and go Well, that, I'm curious about that. What is what you're, you're, you're the professor that taught the student that you only want to be with those people that give you energy.

So why would we go to a party with a whole bunch of people that we don't really want to spend any time with when we have very little time to spend the time with the people that we want to spend the time with and it like, it was like, it just like snapped her right out of the gap, right? She was in the gap around the popularity contest and then quickly got into the game on.

Oh, yeah, but we did spend time with so and so and so and so and so and so. Sure. Right? [00:31:00] All, all of our people that we have the closest connections with, that when, whenever we spend time with them, we leave with a fuller tank than when we started. Yeah. Versus some. Dreadful holiday. How are your holidays, Bob?

How are you taking the 

Matthew Grishman: rest of the year off, Bob? And even if there are one or two people at that party you'd want to spend time with, you can't. I can't because I'm, I'm trapped in the corner with Bob from accounting. A line of people wanting your autograph. Right, exactly. Well, come on. Of course the teacher.

Is going to forget, and it's the student who's going to remind them. How many times have we seen this? We talked about this in studio a couple episodes ago. When we did our little virtual recording. Uh, no, not for New Year's. It was our New Year's recording. Where there are some things you've taught me that I'm, like, I can't unsee and I'm addicted to it.

Like, the alcoholic brain that I've got has just attached itself. To these things. And, and I do them sometimes a alcoholically. And you have envy over that. You've, and you've [00:32:00] shared some envy with me. Yes. And it's like, well, hang on, dude. You, you've taught me how to do this. Yeah, no, no. Yeah, no, absolutely. Go do it.

Go do it. Yeah. Right. And so you got to do that with Beth. I just did this with our friend Phil in Reno. Right. Phil's one of my oldest mentors in the business. And my oldest like longest relationships and. Like, age wise, senior dude. He's, he's a 68 year old friend of mine, who, to look at him, he looks 12. I mean, I love his youthful spirit, but I got to sit at his dining room table a couple of weeks ago, and kind of reflect some things back to him that he taught me.

You know, Susan, his wife is sitting there and going, see, I told you why we need to have him here. Right? It was just, it was wonderful. It was great. It was great. I'm so grateful for that. 

Jim Gebhardt: That's fabulous. Right? Well, speaking of the gene word. 

Matthew Grishman: Well, look, so this idea of connection, you, you and I, when I go back and think to when you and I first met.

And I think about what I watched in you over the first few years and what really drew me into [00:33:00] wanting to create relationship with you. It led us down this path of really pulling apart, like peeling apart this idea of human connection and what are the components that make it up. We're to honor our friend Kevin, what are the components?

That make up this thing, this epicenter, right? Like, like, like the center of the bullseye of human connection boils down to three things. At least what you and I have been able to identify in the 20 or so years that, that we've been dancing in this pool. Swimming. Dancing in pools. Swimming in pools. That's better.

Better idea. And number one, first and foremost, is this idea of gratitude. And what we've learned about gratitude and how gratitude has expanded in our lives from this feeling that we have To an action that we live out, that we, we express outwardly. Like we live this life of gratitude and what that looks like.

So since you're the person who kind of introduced me to gratitude, that really is the first key ingredient. [00:34:00] to develop connections with other people. 

Jim Gebhardt: Oh, no doubt. 

Matthew Grishman: Where'd it come into your life? How did gratitude show up in your life for the first time? 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, it wouldn't be a new year on the show without a reference to Dan Sullivan and the strategic coach.

There you go. Uh, and the exercise that you start every, every session with, which is called positive focus. Right. And so I, I started practicing this at home at the dinner table. With the kiddos, when Emily was probably like 5'6 Grace was 2 or 3, and we'd sit around. And Beth had a meeting this one particular night, and it was, uh, it was October during baseball playoffs.

And while you, I have to confess, are a devout, very devout fan of the game of baseball, I am more of a boyer. I enjoy watching a little. Spectator. Spectator. Yeah, yeah. But then when, you know, it's the high holidays, I really start to settle in for the postseason and I get excited about it. So Beth [00:35:00] goes off to her meeting and I'm sitting on the couch with Emily and Grace and we got a blanket and we're all snuggly cute.

And Emily looks at me, she goes, Daddy, what's your focus, pocus? And I got the biggest kick out of that because it's like, you know what? It seeped in. Yeah. It got, it got in. Yeah. The concept got in. And this concept of practicing gratitude, no different than you practice anything else. Sure. Is just become such a habit in our lives that.

It's how we start all of our meetings at Gebhardt Group. It's not how we start all of our client meetings, right? It's how you and I tend to start our day with, with some quiet reflection on what are we grateful for. It's so easy. It is so easy to sit and complain and to look at everything that's going on in the world.

And fill your wagon of woe. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah, I'm going to push back and tell you it's hard to do that. Because it makes life hard when you do that. 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, it absolutely makes life hard. And, but the material is presented for you. [00:36:00] 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year to fill your wagon full of woe. 

Matthew Grishman: Right. The only reason I'm saying it's hard is because There may be people in our tribe who are like this whole gratitude thing that you guys do it's too hard to do that Right.

Sure. It's hard. Well Not being grateful is hard. Like the complaining wagon. Choose your heart. Choose your heart. Life's hard. Sure. That's gonna be a huge Huge theme on the show this year. Sure. Life's hard. Yeah. We we're gonna learn to accept that. Right. And choose how we experience hard Yeah. How you respond Exactly.

Right. And how you experience it, how you live it. Yeah. Right. 

Jim Gebhardt: And, and so this way of living, frankly, is I wouldn't I, at this point, I really wouldn't know how I need, you know, any other way to do it. Sure. Right. I, it would be hard to imagine not being able to find things in my life that I'm grateful for because most, yeah.

Most, all of the quote unquote, bad things that have happened in my life, [00:37:00] I can actually, once I get some distance from it, I can actually find gratitude for it. Yes. I mean, we've told the story on the show so many times, but my whole episode in 2007 and eight with the real estate and the market and the baby, our baby being born and we own two houses a mile apart.

With some time. That's actually one of the greatest things that's ever happened to me was going through all of that strife, all of that struggle, all of that stress. 

Matthew Grishman: Would you mind, for those who haven't heard the story, just a version? Sure. Sure. Because I think sometimes you and I assume that if you're here with us today, you've been here and heard The gazillion times we've told a story.

Jim Gebhardt: They goddamn better be. New listeners can go listen to the Joe Rogan Show. I'm only looking for the loyal listeners that have been with us for all five years. 

Matthew Grishman: Right. 

Jim Gebhardt: Post that on our website, will you please? So the, the story goes back to 2007 and the fact that we had Two little, we had, well, at that point we [00:38:00] had three, we had three and we owned a fixer upper that we decided not to fix up and we were going to move.

Well, that's what happens 

Matthew Grishman: when you have three of these little tots. You guys aren't man to man defense anymore. Now it's zone defense in your house. Jim 

Jim Gebhardt: Boeheim, Syracuse University, zone defense. 

Matthew Grishman: How the hell are you supposed to fix up a house when you're chasing three little ones around? 

Jim Gebhardt: Who not how, pal?

Matthew Grishman: Well, you need a little we didn't have to scratch each for that either. Right. 

Jim Gebhardt: So. We buy another house, but we buy it non contingent. I'll skip over what that means. I'm going to assume you know what that means if you don't use AI to figure it out. The great meltdown in the bond market started in August of 2007.

We bought this home in, in 2000, July. So we go through a few escrows where people, you know, can't, can't get the financing. The banks are starting to seize up a little bit. And it's now January. We still haven't sold the other house. We're carrying both mortgages a mile apart. Yikes. We're going to bed one night and I look at Beth and I say, Hey, we're brushing our teeth.

Hey, I got it. I got a funny story [00:39:00] I got to tell you. And she looks at me and goes, Oh, I got a funny story for you too, buddy. So we hop in bed and to this day, I do not, I have no, no, no recall your honor on what, what my funny story was. Her funny story with a lot of emotion was at the age of 42, she was pregnant.

So here comes baby number four. We own two houses a mile apart. Baby number four is due in September. Sell the house in June. Roll around to September 14th, 2008. You can fact check me on this, but I know I'm right. AIG, Merrill Lynch. Lehman Brothers. Lehman 

Matthew Grishman: Brothers. And Bayer? 

Jim Gebhardt: Kaput. No, Bayer went in March. 

Matthew Grishman: Oh, they went earlier.

That's right. 

Jim Gebhardt: They were the warning shot. 

Matthew Grishman: Yes. 

Jim Gebhardt: But those three large institutions all go BK on a Monday morning. Grant's born four days later. So now at this point, we don't have any money. We have got more debt than I could ever imagine. Yeah, we sold the other house, but we built up debt in the process to try to carry both.

And now the stock market's in free [00:40:00] fall. Month of October, the stock market's down 20%. Our business is predicated on the basis of the revenue that comes from the performance of the stock market. 

Matthew Grishman: Happy 

Jim Gebhardt: holiday. So long and the short of it was I was not in a good space and I saw no way out. And that really looking back on it because of the decisions that I made and how we pivoted our asset management approach from a traditional, as I was trained as a, you know, classical buy and holder for Merrill Lynch days.

Now this methodology of being tactical, right. And strategically making shifts, but it was, it was embracing the fact that it's like, I can't do this again. Right. I can't go through another one of these again. 

Matthew Grishman: So you used it as an incredible learning opportunity. Oh my God. 

Jim Gebhardt: It was painful, painful, painful, painful, but it was, and I can now look back on it with an unbelievable sense of gratitude that It helped fundamentally shift my thinking, fundamentally shift how we [00:41:00] manage money and just all the other kind of dominoes that fell as a result of being opened, being open, right?

Uh, Carol Dweck has a wonderful book called the growth mindset and this whole concept of staying open, right? Being open to the possibility and the idea is this growth mindset. And I, I don't think that book was even written then. And if it was, I certainly hadn't written, uh, read it. That has been one of the keys to our success all these years is, is staying open and positive.

Sure, there's setbacks, right? I always use the same example of I need new material in 2025, but the Candyland slide, right? The game we played as kids, the Candyland, where you, Oh, you're marking your way up and now, Oh, you rolled a five and back you go. Right. That's life. Right. Right. It's not this beautifully smooth 45 degree angle up into the right.

It's as jiggity, jaggedy, uphill, downhill. Sometimes you hit the slide and you go back. Yes. And oh, baby, I hit the slide and went back in 07 and [00:42:00] 08 and I mean, it was probably 2013 before life started to normalize. That's a very long time in the life of little people. And that gratitude probably saved my life.

Matthew Grishman: And you didn't even really know it was at play until you got to the other side. Now you've 

Jim Gebhardt: got, again, that, that concept of when you're in the storm, when you're in the hurricane, right? When you're in the tornado, when you're in the blizzard. You can't see 

Matthew Grishman: the first 

Jim Gebhardt: time 

Matthew Grishman: because now you and I go through storms and blizzards and we've learned from the old storms and blizzards.

Yeah, but the sun will come out again. And so for a moment in the hardest times a year ago when I could not stands the pain. Yes. Because of the experiences that we have been through, this is where gratitude, again, my, you know, my, my say no more list this year is very simple. No more hurrying. No more rushing.

The miracle that is gratitude is that it slows everything down in the moment. And flushes the [00:43:00] decks. Oh, it just, it slows so, so for me, when, when I'm feeling this pain, everything is speeding up and, It's like this feeling of anxiety and, and no hope, and I'm not going to get through this, and to just find something.

Well, while I could do that, I'm grateful I still have the ability to inhale and exhale. Sure. Right, as simple as that. And then what starts happening is how gratitude has morphed for us from this feeling To a verb. To an action, right, where, where, you know, you and I both drive around with license plates covers that Let's say, did you gratitude today?

Jim Gebhardt: Yeah. And I'm kind of disappointed. Nobody's honked their horn and gone. What in the hell does that mean? 

Matthew Grishman: That is terrible English. Uh huh. It's common. I I'm going to guess more people have seen it. And then we'll scratch their head going, what the hell does that mean? 

Jim Gebhardt: I 

Matthew Grishman: 100%. I think people do do that. And that's where gratitude has [00:44:00] become where it's morphed because brother, at the end of the day, what this is all about, gratitude is the foundation for connection with other people and the action that we take and how we express gratitude, the generosity of our time, that our ability to sit and listen and be present.

That is how we express our gratitude. Making our wives a cup of coffee in the morning and bringing it to them is how we express our gratitude. They're all these little things. Can I 

Jim Gebhardt: emptying the dishwasher? 

Matthew Grishman: Ooh, go ahead. Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: You add it. I was, wait for it, rushing this morning. Uh 

Matthew Grishman: oh. 

Jim Gebhardt: And I was like, I don't have to empty the gratitude.

Empty the gratitude 

Matthew Grishman: cleaner? 

Jim Gebhardt: Good one. So the dishwasher for me is, that's one of my things that I do because I know my, my wife loves. A nicely cleaned, tucked kitchen with an empty dishwasher because then I'm off to the gym and then she's doing the short order quick breakfast routine and [00:45:00] so that way the dishwasher is empty to be able to load said breakfast.

Anyway, 

Matthew Grishman: there's something about developing a morning gratitude routine. There's something about What you do. We have an old friend, Mark Martinez, if you're listening. God bless you. Happy new year, brother. Happy new year. Something you shared with me, Mark, two and a half years ago, when you were in your own health journey, was this idea of starting your day with staples.

What are the staples that you start your day with in the morning that set the foundation for the rest of your day? 

Jim Gebhardt: Bulgers in your cup. For 

Matthew Grishman: some people, yeah, absolutely. Mark was talking about the smoothies that he makes and the, the water that he drinks and just how he starts his day. But one of the things we also talked a lot about, It was how gratitude becomes a foundational part of the day, that I start my day with gratitude.

When my eyes open up, I just feel and express a little bit of gratitude for the [00:46:00] fact that I got another one. I got another one. I got one. We get one today. One of the gifts of seeing your mortality, one of the gifts of having that right in your face is a little bit more awareness of the fragility of life.

It's a gift that I think everybody should experience at some point. It's just the frailty of life and how much each day is a gift, is a blessing, and the fact that tomorrow is not a guarantee. Right. So I'm going to start my morning with gratitude. What am I grateful for today? And then allow that to bring itself into existence throughout the day with my actions, in how I show up with people.

I love. Cooking dinner for my family. It brings a great amount of stress to my family when we don't know what the dinner plans are. So for me to step up and prepare something beautiful and healthy and delicious at times, my experiments, not always, but always delicious and fun and healthy is the way I express gratitude at the end of the day, right?

But it starts [00:47:00] with this intention of what am I grateful for in the morning. 

Jim Gebhardt: I hope everybody is either taking notes or Thinking of what they can do tomorrow morning to kick that off. Right. To just, again, anchor anchor. Say with me, tribe only has to get off the bottom of the pond, about a half an inch to get in motion.

How can you get in motion on gratitude? You might be grousing through this entire episode on, Oh, there they go again. Yeah. With gratitude. Yeah. Haven't they talked enough about gratitude? Oh, we're just getting started. Yeah. We're just clearing our throats because it obviously hasn't caught on. 

Matthew Grishman: Well, it's the foundation of that connection with people and it's critical.

The next few episodes are all going to be about this component of our wealth, which is all within the relationships we have with other people, which let's face it, they're hard. Relationships are hard. Connecting with people is hard, especially in this day and [00:48:00] age, post COVID, the whole virtual world we live in, the whole AI world we live in, everybody's got their face in their iPhones and we've lost.

In many senses, that sense of connection with one another. So our mission here for the next few episodes is providing some insight and some tools to help reestablish some of that connection. If you're struggling in the world of connecting with your people, it's going to start with an expression of gratitude.

In the next couple of episodes, we're going to expand that. We're going to get into this idea of vulnerability and what that looks like. Uh oh. We're going to talk about vulnerability and compassion and empathy and all those cool things. All 

Jim Gebhardt: of the key components to the Certified Financial Planning curriculum.

Absolutely. And the Wealth Management School of Life. 

Matthew Grishman: Absolutely. And then with that, we're also going to talk about this thing called trust. Which seems to be a very, very fleeting. 

Jim Gebhardt: Like a bank in trust? Eh, kinda. Like a trust company? 

Matthew Grishman: Uh huh, sure. Oh. How about a [00:49:00] trust in one another? Ooh. A trust in each other.

Especially. 

Jim Gebhardt: That must be in the appendix of all those curriculums. 

Matthew Grishman: When we don't necessarily see the world through the same set of lenses. How can we still establish and maintain trust? With those that we have differences with. Because 

Jim Gebhardt: you're red and I'm blue. 

Matthew Grishman: Uh huh. Or 

Jim Gebhardt: you're blue and I'm red. Sure. Or I haven't got to say it yet.

You're a 

Matthew Grishman: Jew and I'm a Gentile. Ha, ha, ha. Attaboy. There you go. I love it. I love it. 

Jim Gebhardt: The, the, the question I wanted to ask you. Okay. Around the concept of gratitude. Uh huh. Is when you're out and about in your daily life, Are you attracted to people that are grouses or are you attracted to people that have gratitude?

Matthew Grishman: I'm personally attracted. 

Jim Gebhardt: Don't give me the happy horseshit answer. 

Matthew Grishman: To the people who have grouses. I knew you were going to say that. Uh huh. Cause I want to show them gratitude. But 

Jim Gebhardt: that's not where you were. No. Right? 

Matthew Grishman: No. I see somebody with a frown on their face and I immediately want to go up to them and put a big old [00:50:00] smile on my face and say, hi, I'm Matt.

Who are you? 

Jim Gebhardt: Yeah. 

Matthew Grishman: Right. And just see what happens with that. 

Jim Gebhardt: The evolution of your, of your gratitude practicing, right? Have you gratituded today or whatever our license plate frames say. But isn't that so interesting? Because. Well, if someone is, if someone is open and full of gratitude and not necessarily grousing about stuff, it's very easy to connect with that person versus the grouches that I hear in the locker room that are complaining about every living thing.

I can't. It's like a repellent. It is like kryptonite for me. I can't get away from those people fast enough. Now they could have very interesting stories. They could have very interesting reasons why. They're grousing. They could have just buried their wife a week ago. I don't know. I don't know. But unfortunately, I don't have much curiosity to go into the dirty pool and hang out with the grouses yet.

Matthew Grishman: I don't. It's coming. You're going to hang out with me a [00:51:00] little longer and it's inevitable. Okay. You can't unsee it. Well, I Because of the energy that I get from being curious about why somebody lacks gratitude and helping them see how gratitude can become a tool out of the darkness. And how it has helped me do that very thing.

I mean, just this connection with people, brother, has been the key to the wealth that I have been able to accumulate in my life. Who, not how. And let's face it, our clients pay us very well. To help them solve some of the most complex problems they're ever going to come across. Yes. And guess what? They're not always about money.

We're generally solving those problems because we're really good at finding who, not how. So, here's what I'd love. I'm gonna ask our tribe to do something. If gratitude has become a part of your routine, or it's showing up in your life, and it's becoming meaningful, I'd Look at the [00:52:00] device that you're listening to us on right now and in the show notes you're going to see a hyperlink right at the top for you to send us a text message.

Send us a message. We'd love to hear how gratitude is showing up in your life today. Because then in the next few episodes, when we get into vulnerability and trust, we're going to really kick this ability to connect and create true wealth in a whole new way. Sounds good to me. I love it. All right, let's keep going.

And with that brother, 

Jim Gebhardt: that's a wrap. 

Matthew Grishman: Thanks for joining us today on the Whole Wealth Journey. Whatever your path may look like, our purpose is to make sure that your way forward aligns with your core values and intentions. Are you ready to start planning for a future that's rich in wealth and well being?

Then click like and subscribe and make sure you don't miss a single episode of the Whole Wealth Journey. So if we've struck a nerve with you 

Jim Gebhardt: today, 

Matthew Grishman: where do people go? You can find us at [00:53:00] GebhartWholeWealth. com. That's G E B H A R D T, wholewealth. com. And once you get there, make sure you connect with us so you can take the first steps to finding your why.

We'll see you next time. 

Amy Bingham: Jim Gebhardt is a registered representative of and securities offered through Brokers International Financial Services LLC, member SIPC. Jim Gebhardt and Matthew Grishman are investment advisor representatives of Gebhardt Group Incorporated, a registered investment advisor.

Brokers International Financial Services LLC and Gebhardt Group Incorporated are not affiliated. The opinions in this podcast are for informational purposes only and are not intended to provide or investment recommendations to determine which investments or financial advice may be appropriate for you, consult a financial advisor prior to investing.

Any reference to market performance is based on historical information and there is no expressed or implied guarantee of future performance. [00:54:00] Opinions expressed on this program do not necessarily reflect those of Brokers International Financial Services, LLC. The topics discussed and opinions given are not intended to address the specific needs of any listener.

Gebhardt Group Incorporated does not offer legal or tax advice. Listeners are encouraged to discuss their financial needs with the appropriate professional regarding your individual circumstance.