Episode 147: Embracing Vulnerability for Deeper Connection.

What happens when unexpected challenges throw your family into disarray? Imagine having to make tough parenting decisions while nurturing the resilience and gratitude needed to thrive. Hosts, Matthew Grishman and Jim Gebhardt take you through personal journeys of balancing life's chaos while sharing personal stories that help find strength in self-care and maintaining peace amid uncertainty.

Hear how Jim's European adventure transformed family bonds. He recounts the awe-inspiring moments and how vulnerability and cooperation can lead to deeper connections. 

Finally, the guys explore the profound impact of vulnerability both personally and professionally. From enriching relationships through genuine connections to embracing openness in professional settings, they discuss the courage to be authentic. Hear how gratitude can shine a light on hope, even amidst the tragic fires in Los Angeles, illustrating its role in building resilience. True wealth is found in honest, vulnerable connections.

If you would like to learn a little more about Open Invite Trips, you can reach out to Emily HERE

Chapter Summaries
(00:00) Gratitude Amidst Unexpected Challenges
Gratitude and resilience in the face of uncertainty, supporting each other to stay present and grounded.

(12:53) Family Bonding Through European Adventure
Family trip to Europe fosters gratitude, openness, and deeper connection through iconic locations and shared experiences.

(19:38) The Power of Vulnerability and Connection
Vulnerability and connection are transformative in personal and professional settings, emphasizing authenticity and congruence.

(30:49) Building Wealth Through Connection and Vulnerability
Introversion, gratitude, and resilience in the face of tragedy, as seen through the recent fires in Los Angeles.

(39:06) The Power of Vulnerability in Connection
Anonymity and vulnerability are powerful in fostering connections and reducing shame, as seen in a personal story of financial struggles and newfound friendship.

(52:48) Connection Through Vulnerability and Heart
Vulnerability and connection can arise between acquaintances, masking true feelings with "fine," and the historical origins of the password.

(01:01:31) Finding Deeper Connection Through Vulnerability
Embrace vulnerability and build connections through authentic sharing, asking questions, and expressing curiosity in relationships.

You can learn more about The Whole Wealth Journey by visiting The Gebhardt Group. You can follow us on Instagram @thewholewealthjourney

Transcript

Matthew Grishman: [00:00:00] What was also safe about you is you were a stranger at that point, right? I was so, I couldn't tell any of my friends. I was at a point. Okay. 

Jim Gebhardt: Stop. Well, what the hell is it about that right there? Why is it more? I'm not accusing you of this, but I think this is categorically the case. Sure. Why is it that you are more comfortable?

And I shouldn't use you. Don't 

Matthew Grishman: use me. It's okay. 

Jim Gebhardt: To share your vulnerability with a stranger than you are with those people that know you care for you, love you, like you, all that good stuff. Welcome to the whole wealth

journey. 

Matthew Grishman: Wealth with a Y. 

Jim Gebhardt: What does 

Matthew Grishman: that mean? 

Jim Gebhardt: What does 

Matthew Grishman: that mean? 

Jim Gebhardt: Are we spelling 

Matthew Grishman: it funny? Uh, no, I think we're using the word Y. The word Y. Okay, not the letter Y, the actual word Y. 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, I know Y. Why? [00:01:00] Because we want to help people get on their path. Then the path is all about their Y. 

Matthew Grishman: And it's about aligning your finances with The people, the experience, and the 

Jim Gebhardt: passions 

Matthew Grishman: that give 

Jim Gebhardt: their lives true meaning.

It's getting way beyond the bank statements, the brokerage statements, the trust documents, the life insurance, and taking a deeper dive into your why. 

Matthew Grishman: Well, admittedly, we're not for everyone. This is different. We're for the bold ones who really want to dive deeper and seek a life that resonates with who they really are at their core.

Who finds value in vulnerability. 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, 

Matthew Grishman: you and I do 

Jim Gebhardt: you and I do and that's where we want to play, but not everybody is comfortable with that vulnerability. 

Matthew Grishman: Maybe we should introduce ourselves. What do you think? Oh, that's a good idea. Jim Gebhardt and I'm Matthew Grishman. We are the co creators of the podcast, The Whole Wealth Journey.

Ready to find your why? Then let's get started and get you one step closer to unlocking your inner wealth and well being.[00:02:00] 

Jim Gebhardt: Hey, what are you grateful for as we get rolling here in 2025?

Matthew Grishman: First, I'm grateful for the ability to do that. Take a breath and create space. That's a new, that's a relatively new muscle of mine. I'm finding space to be an important new friend of mine. So you're going to remodel? We might, we probably need a couple of bathrooms remodeled, but the space I'm talking about kind of exists in here.

Ah. And just being able to, when somebody asks me a question, pause and take a breath before I answer. So I'm grateful for that kind of space. Nice. The pause button has become my friend. I am incredibly grateful that we were able to walk through some significant resistance over the holidays. and come out the other side, still on our [00:03:00] path, on the path that we kind of set out, you know, our, our whole rest and recovery over the holidays, taking a little break, taking it down a little bit, all sorts of resistance showed up right before Christmas, trying to throw us off that path.

We were going to go away for a week with our, with Miles before, you know, his final launch. to, uh, to the airlines. It was going to be our last kind of hurrah together. And the, the young man got sick and wasn't able to join us. So on, on, uh, Christmas night, we were scheduled to take a red eye from Sacramento to Miami, to our final destination in San Juan, Puerto Rico.

And that day Miles made the decision that he's just too sick to fly and, and that was just, that was awful. We were, we were really sad about that. And then at 1138, my phone rang. It was my other son Lucas's employer, Palisades Tahoe. Hi, my name is, I forget her name. I'm the head of health services at Palisades Tahoe.

I need to talk to you about your son. [00:04:00] And that's what it felt like for a minute. I don't know if you just all heard my heart sink to the bottom of my stomach. He's going to be okay, but he's on his way to the hospital in an ambulance. He had a little accident on the mountain today. And just out of an abundance of caution, we decided to transport him via ambulance to Tahoe Forest Trauma Center to rule out spinal cord injuries or a broken pelvis.

Oh boy. 

Jim Gebhardt: Happy holidays. 

Matthew Grishman: Okay. So thankfully he's not dead, but you just said, uh, spinal cord trauma center. Holy cow. Like one of the biggest trauma centers on earth is, is that one there? That was a scary couple of moments and unfortunately not the first time we've gotten that phone call from, from Lucas's employer, but man, was that a big old ball of resistance?

Amy and I took a pause. What do we do? We got in the car and instead of trying to plan out the next. 20 steps, like are we getting on the flight tonight? I don't know. I don't know. [00:05:00] How about we just get in the car and drive to Truckee, and let's just go put our eyes on our son. So somehow we were able to stay two inches in front of our nose, and that felt really good.

It didn't feel good throughout the day, but every time either Amy or me, either time either one of us tried to go out to, well what are we going to do, hey how about we just like stay two inches in front, stay here, look down, where are your feet? Let's be where our feet are, right? Because if we start to worry, worry's not going to change whatever uncertainty might be out there in the future, but it's sure gonna mess with our peace and serenity right now.

It's gonna mess this moment up. So we were very good at holding each other accountable to that. We got up there, we got him out of the emergency room, uh, thanked heavens for some good pain medication, because he was feeling no pain. We found out he had a shattered tailbone. So, nothing you could really do about that other than heal and stay off the snowboard and not go to work.

We drove back to Olympic Valley, got his car, and got him back [00:06:00] down safe and sound to our home in Rockland. So now, we've got two boys. Sickbay. Two boys at home. It's now Sickbay. Right. 

Jim Gebhardt: He's in Rockland. 

Matthew Grishman: One sick, one injured. And we're supposed to get on an aeroplane for vacation. Every single molecule in my body said, no way you can go and leave your boys behind.

At 10 p. m., the Uber shows up at our house. I walk into the bedroom to see if Amy's ready, and let's just say she wasn't. Emotionally, physically, she was not. Understandable. Understandable. Sure. Mom and dad want to stay home and take care of the boys, but we chose somehow That the gift here is we've got the sixth son who's about to go be responsible for 75 people's lives Every time he gets on an airplane and goes to work and we've got another boy who's responsible For people's lives on one of the most dangerous mountains in the world We have to give them the gift of being able to take care of themselves even in dire circumstances [00:07:00] like this one of the hardest parenting decisions We've ever made.

But we got in the Uber, we went to the airport, and the entire ride, second guessing myself, we got to go back. We can't do this. What the hell are we doing? But we realized that this is something we had to do, because guess what? We also needed the break. We needed the rest, and we needed to not have to feel better about staying home with our boys.

We needed to go and give them the space and the dignity to be able to take care of themselves. And we did. We wound up having a fabulous time away, just the two of us. Unexpected that it was going to be just the two of us. Granted, we were with Hank and Jill and Daniel and Jillian and their girls. And we had a wonderful, wonderful time.

So I'm just, I'm grateful to be able to go through some resistance like that and still have a fabulous vacation. Hey, good news. Good news. Lucas is back to work. The tailbone is healing. And Miles is officially with SkyWest Airlines in his [00:08:00] training. He has launched and, so everything worked out great.

Everything worked out great. So, all of the worrying that I could have done, I'm grateful I did not. Because it really didn't seem, things didn't seem to turn out as horribly as I was envisioning they could. 

Jim Gebhardt: Yeah. 

Matthew Grishman: Everything worked out great. Well, I 

Jim Gebhardt: mean, the natural tendency is to go down the rabbit hole.

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: If Amy were sitting here in studio with us, what would her, what would her takeaway be? 

Matthew Grishman: I think a similar takeaway, In the Uber ride, I think she wanted to kill me. I think she wanted to, are we really doing this? We're really doing this. Yes. We're really doing this. Please trust me on this one. We're doing this.

And, God bless her, she, she went along. So it, it was some of the, some of the best Did it take 

Jim Gebhardt: a day or two, or I mean Yes. How long, I mean Well, 

Matthew Grishman: red eye, no sleep on a red eye, of course, worried about the boys. But within, I would say, by day two. [00:09:00] So that, that first day in Puerto Rico was rough. But by day two, there were smiles and some gratitude and appreciation that we have this beautiful place, this beautiful vacation.

How about it? The big power failure on New Year's Eve on the island of Puerto Rico, and the ensuing, uh, inauguration two days later that had the entire island in riots and protests, and it was quite the adventure. And again, super grateful to experience all of that. Anytime we go to Puerto Rico, it's an adventure, right?

Has to be. Exactly, so. Wow. Yeah, big list of gratitude. Wow. How about you, brother? 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, 

Matthew Grishman: Mr. Trip of a lifetime. Mine is a 

Jim Gebhardt: trip of a lifetime with not a fraction of that resistance. I have a little bit of traveler's guilt for not having some resistance before we went. Well, you got post trip resistance, 

Matthew Grishman: though.

Jim Gebhardt: I did? 

Matthew Grishman: Well, the wah wah after a big vacation. Yeah, no, 

Jim Gebhardt: that's, that's okay. Yeah, we had been planning [00:10:00] this trip of a lifetime for like 10 or 11 months. Yeah. And we had unbelievably high expectations. We were taking all six of us, so Beth, myself, and the four kids, to Bath for Christmas. So, Bath outside of London.

That's a big bath for you all to fit? All six of us. Wow. Absolutely. And then London in between Christmas and New Year's, and then Paris for New Year's through January 3rd. It exceeded the expectations. That's awesome. It was, was just unbelievable. And I have to give a huge shout out to Emily Kenny, who is the travel consultant that we worked with at Open Invite Trips.

So, go check her out. Company she and her partner on Instagram, for instance. Our trip was scheduled down to dinner reservations at night. 

Matthew Grishman: So everything. There wasn't anything you had to think about. You just got to show up. 

Jim Gebhardt: And that, to me, brother, is a vacation. That's awesome. Um, when it's [00:11:00] just really follow the script, follow the playbook, right?

I mean, we've talked about how our favorite way to go out, you and I, to go out to dinner is we quickly, you know, sum up the server and turn the menu over and just say, you know, bring us food. Yeah, I'm 

Matthew Grishman: kind of looking forward to that for lunch today. So 

Jim Gebhardt: that whole, that whole concept that, I don't even remember who introduced us to it, of decision fatigue, right?

There was no decision fatigue here because we had a playbook. 

Matthew Grishman: Oh, could you imagine the stress of you and Beth trying to put an itinerary like this together? No. How would you do that? 

Jim Gebhardt: No. And, you know, with six of us going to dinner every night, that has to be a reservation. You're not just walking into a bistro.

in the busy city of Paris. Oh yeah, table for six please. You know, come on. The other thing that was beautiful, the beautiful thing about the itinerary was also that we were pretty much up and out of the apartment every day by about 8. 30. Because otherwise it would have been herding cats and we [00:12:00] wouldn't have left until noon and this one wants to take a shower and this one's going to blow dry their hair.

But we were crack a lacka, we were up and out. So, it was absolutely the trip of a lifetime. 

Matthew Grishman: That's awesome. 

Jim Gebhardt: And Bath at Christmas time is like right out of a, a Christmas carol. I mean, it's just charming and quaint and it was foggy and the town is pretty much closed, but there's like some small cheese shops and bakeries and coffee shops open and you're just kind of walking around taking it all in.

London was, I've never been in a city that decorates and celebrates Christmas as much as London. Hmm. Never seen anything like it. I've also, I will go on record and say, I've never been. in a city with as many people as London. And I, I'm, you know, it's not like I haven't left the village of Syracuse. I've been to some of the most major metropolitan cities on Earth.

Granted, I haven't been to Istanbul and Singapore and Tokyo and Mexico City. Right. [00:13:00] But my goodness, there were a lot of people out just living and enjoying everything the Christmas season had to offer in London. And Paris, oh my God, we just had such a blast in Paris. Such a blast. And you know, we've never done this before.

We've never, we've never traveled internationally, all six of us, like this, right? This is a, not just a big trip, this is a big investment. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: So the anxiety of, you know, how's this all gonna go? The details were all nicely buttoned up. But all of the memory dividends that have already started, you know, just a few weeks into being back.

Sure. I mean, just some of the text exchanges and the funny pictures and it was absolutely the trip of the lifetime. So the gratitude that, you know, all the planning paid off for an exquisite trip and to Emily Kenny and her team for, and it's really Emily mostly, because she was also on call as we had some foibles 

Matthew Grishman: Sure.

Jim Gebhardt: [00:14:00] that, you know, went down over the trip. It's also nice to know you've got a little command center that's got their eye on what you're doing. And so it was, it was just, it was incredible. 

Matthew Grishman: Another awesome example of who, not how. 

Jim Gebhardt: Who. 

Matthew Grishman: Lots of who's. 

Jim Gebhardt: Who, who, who, not how. That's a great way to summarize it because we'll absolutely do another excursion adventure with Emily and her team at some point.

Probably got to rob a couple of banks to do that, you know, in the future, but it was worth every penny. 

Matthew Grishman: When you were on the trip. It was the six of you, and I know one of the things you've tried to do a lot more of in the last several years is spend some more one on one time with each one of the four children.

Yeah. As they've gotten older. Did you have any of that, or was this mostly This was mostly We're all together doing Yeah, no, this 

Jim Gebhardt: was mostly a pod. Okay. We were, we were moving in a pod. 90 something percent of the time. Like, there would be moments like you're in a museum, [00:15:00] and I remember being with Jack in the Louvre, and there was a particular painting of Napoleon's Coronation.

And he had studied this in one of his classes in high school. Okay. And he's looking at it, and he's like, Oh, my God. That's, and the scale, I mean, that's one of the things when you get to see some of these paintings in real life is the scale of these things. You know, they're 15 feet wide and 20 feet tall.

And he's just having a moment in front of this painting that is larger than life. And we've just come from the Mona Lisa. Right? And just, you start to, and after this is like day 8 or 9 on the trip, and one of the coolest things for me was to see how the kids embraced all the history. Right? We're in this church that's 900 years old.

The Roman baths are thousands of years old. People have been coming here to these waters to You know, soothe their ache for several thousand years. Go, go breathe that one in for a little while and [00:16:00] tell me if you're upset that TikTok's getting cancelled. Right? I mean, it's just, I was so impressed with how they could stand in front of the Mona Lisa and feel the weight of it.

Feel the enormity of Leonardo da Vinci's masterpiece. Yeah. Sitting on the wall, six feet in front of you. Behind bulletproof glass. Sure. Behind all that. That was really cool. And the amount of gratitude, and I'm not beating the gratitude drum because we're on it. You could sense the authenticity of their gratitude was like, Oh my god, mom and dad, thank you.

This, whether it was a meal, whether it was a church, whether it was a museum, you could just tell, you know, We went to dinner the first night we were 

Matthew Grishman: in Paris. Their actions showed the gratitude. It didn't, they didn't even have to say thank you. The look on their 

Jim Gebhardt: face and the way they were looking at us was just 

Matthew Grishman: And the way they engaged [00:17:00] with the history that was in front of them.

It was, 

Jim Gebhardt: it was so awesome. We come out of dinner the first night we're in Paris and Jack looks up and he sees that we're on University street. I'm going to spare you my French accent. It's not as good as it used to be when I was taking AP French literature, just trying to date Jennifer. 

Matthew Grishman: Sure. Why else would you take French literature?

Jim Gebhardt: Precisely. Particularly with how non French literature I am. And he's like, Oh, I've been, I've been looking all over Instagram and TikTok that they say that this is one of the best streets to go get to. And he turned and like the Eiffel Tower was like right in front of us. Nice. Like somebody had snuck it, like, in front of us.

Sure, just pushed it across. And we did know that every hour on the hour at the top of the hour, for five minutes, the Eiffel Tower sparkles. What do you mean? So it's lit up at night. What do you mean sparkles? Sparkles. Like, the lights twinkle. Twinkle, thank you. Nice. For five minutes. Huh, I didn't know that either.

And it is, it [00:18:00] is just, it is incredible. It's better than fireworks. The way this all lights up, and there's, you know, it's foggy, and so you couldn't quite see the top, and there's people around, oh, it's just, it was, I could, the whole show could be on one adventure after another with the trip, it was just, it was absolutely incredible.

That's awesome. I am so grateful that I could, A, take the family, Beth and I could take the family to do that, that the team had my back, I wasn't present or engaged at all with the office to be able to, Do that and go try to cross the pond. It was fabulous. 

Matthew Grishman: That's awesome. I'm incredibly curious about experiences like this, where, especially young people who live, you know, in the world that we live in today and are inundated with the challenges of the times and to put all of that aside and to be in front of something as grand and awesome as the history that you were in front of and how that awe can really Bring in the humility that it [00:19:00] brought for your children.

Oh. Experiencing maybe perhaps a little more vulnerability from them, a little less guarded behavior, a little less American behavior and a little more just openness and and allowing themselves to experience what was going on and feeling the feelings that they were feeling and then showing them to you.

Jim Gebhardt: Example after example of them being able to breathe in. The fact that, you know, okay, the United States, woo hoo, we're 250 years old, yay. You know, they saw furniture that was 400 years old, 

Matthew Grishman: right? Just a front door on a house that was about, yeah, sure. What was the biggest takeaway for you and the family coming off of this trip?

This is a lifetime bucket list. We've never done anything like this before. We're, we're putting ourselves in a place where major history has happened. We're feeling an incredible sense of awe, of vulnerability, of openness, of wonder. [00:20:00] What was the big takeaway for you and the family? 

Jim Gebhardt: For me, it was easy.

Let's do it again. I want to do it again. As soon as we can afford to go do a trip like that again, I want to do it again. 

Matthew Grishman: Did you feel a deeper sense of connection coming off this trip together? With one another, sure. Because when's the last time the six of you spent this kind of time together, 

Jim Gebhardt: this present with each other?

Maybe, probably never. Other than day to day living, right? I mean, we've never taken a 12 day trip anywhere. Right? That's not true. When our niece got married, we did a couple week East Coast thing. But that was more of a vacation? Sure. Well, and, and that vulnerability and, and connectiveness with one another was a bit of a requirement because we had a schedule.

And if Boo Boo was tired, or the hairdryer didn't work, because it Didn't work. Let's link arms and let's go folks. [00:21:00] And it was, there were times everybody had to pick others up. The comedy relief. Oh my god, the comedy relief that our kids all demonstrated at times and the silliness and the ridiculousness of, oh, it was, yeah.

Matthew Grishman: Well this, I mean, as I'm listening to you share all of this, what, what I'm getting from this and It's impossible not to get this from you is just the incredible depth of even more connection that you and the other five Gebhardt's created on this trip and the investment and the return on that investment and how so much more value of your wealth comes from Experiences like this this this connection you had with your family.

This wouldn't have been nearly as Valuable a trip if it were with anyone else in the world Oh, agreed. If you were there with, I mean, you just did the big golf trip with your buddies in Ireland, which was another whole trip of a lifetime. Absolutely. But I, I remember you coming home from that and I. I see [00:22:00] you coming home from this and I see a return on this investment, a level of connection, right?

And when you talk about the trip you took to Ireland to play golf, you didn't tell me about the golf courses. I mean, you brought me a cool shirt from one of them. You didn't talk about the golf courses. You talked about your new BFF, Richie. 

Jim Gebhardt: Absolutely. 

Matthew Grishman: You talked about the connection you made and how much you got to know people because the distraction of life and what society expects of us and TikTok and Instagram and news and all that crap was gone and you just had an opportunity to Connect.

to be with one another. 

Jim Gebhardt: Isn't that the best? 

Matthew Grishman: Oh, it's awesome. 

Jim Gebhardt: We could stand a wee bit more of that on the planet? 

Matthew Grishman: Well, I'll tell you when we got you asked me. How long did it take for us to ease into Puerto Rico? What I didn't share is that first 24 hours, and this has happened a couple of times, where we show up, and just because of how sheer exhausted we were emotionally and [00:23:00] physically, I got to watch Amy really let her guard down with my mom and dad.

And just be who she is, and be honest about how she was feeling, and being vulnerable. For a little while and not so guarded, right? We, you know, the in laws sometimes can create a little, you know, hey, we got a little extra starch in your collar, right? That's how I always have with my mother in law. Just I want to, I want to show a little.

Yeah, your posture's better. Exactly. 

Jim Gebhardt: You brush your teeth and your hair. Comb 

Matthew Grishman: my hair. I shave, right? I do all these things and to watch Amy let her guard down with my parents and just be vulnerable to how she And to watch my parents embrace that and not try to take away how she was feeling, but just hold space for it.

It made their relationship, every time, I would say in the last four or five years, every time I watch Amy do that with my parents, just be a little more vulnerable. A little more, hey, here's me, here's how I'm feeling in the moment, and I'm going [00:24:00] to share that openly with you. Watching how, like, there's almost a paradox there.

Right? It was something that she's always shared with me that she was afraid of, right? I can't let too many people in on how I really am, because of the fear of what they might think of me. Sure. Judgment day. Right? I'm weak. I can't, you know, I'm a weak mother, right? But yet And as she shares more of that vulnerability with my parents and with others, how it just sucks people in and, and it just, it brings them even closer together.

We came away from this Puerto Rico trip and this is our seventh or eighth time going there together, all in alignment over this was the best one yet. And I really believe that is directly connected. To our ability to be vulnerable and real with one another be in the moment and be real and just be connected 

Jim Gebhardt: as we So strongly believe that vulnerability is one of the greatest attractants out [00:25:00] there.

Yes agreed the new frontier in terms of connection is Not this impenetrable perfect. Keep going. I'm strong. I'm tough. I'm Impenetrable, right? Oh, yeah, but it's actually And it doesn't have to be that, you know, I'm a flawed human being that's a sinner and I'm, you know, it's not that either to me personally.

Yeah. But there is something valuable when, I mean, it's one thing in, in your personal life, in your professional life, it's very powerful to be somewhat vulnerable in your professional position. So when I tell the story of 2008 and how I was worth more dead than alive. That is generally not the hallmark of a financial advisor.

Right. Of course not. That is not the standard by which you would like to be grading your financial advisor. Sure. So the vulnerability that comes with that, like, Hey dude, [00:26:00] I, you know, I've made mistakes too. I've made plenty of mistakes. And I think that vulnerability is very powerful. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: I don't need my doctor smoking and eating an In N Out Double Double with cheese when I go see him or her.

Sure. Right. The fact that they can be vulnerable too, that's attractive to me. 

Matthew Grishman: Vulnerable is just exposing your humanness to other people. Right? It's taking the cape off. And I'll challenge you on, right, this separation of personal and professional life. I think part of an active vulnerability muscle, right?

Engaging that vulnerability muscle is where there is no separation between personal and professional and and how we show up vulnerably. No, I'm 

Jim Gebhardt: not, I'm not saying that there's separation. I'm saying it's harder. It is easier in your personal life to be vulnerable with your friends and your family. Is it?

And it is, oh, I think it is. I think it's much easier than professionally. To admit your error and [00:27:00] flaws and mistakes and I see your eyebrows raising and I can see where some people might have challenges with 

Matthew Grishman: that for you, for me personally, it's been easier 

Jim Gebhardt: professionally, much easier personally to be vulnerable than professionally, 

Matthew Grishman: but 

Jim Gebhardt: I have embraced it for so long professionally that it's no longer to me.

It is all the same to me. It is. All swimming in the same pool of water. Nice. Right? That's awesome. Well, I mean, it goes to that whole congruency muscle that we've talked about. That we believe thou shalt be the same wherever we go. Right. That we're not different at work than we are at the office. We're not different at the office than we are at the church, the synagogue, the pool, the gym.

Matthew Grishman: No masks. 

Jim Gebhardt: No masks. Right. So, I can absolutely see how maybe in people's, you know, immediate circles or family life, There could be a wee bit of judgment around some of your flaws and mistakes. Heh 

Matthew Grishman: heh. Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: I get [00:28:00] that. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. Well, so, weird experience, and I appreciate us just kind of reasoning this out with each other.

I go back to that trip, that very first trip we took with Hank and Jill to Puerto Rico. in, was it 2013? No, 2014, when I was sitting with my dad in the little concierge lounge. And just something kind of came over me where I looked at him and I said, So, for me to do this financial advisor thing right, I feel like I have to be honest.

With clients and friends and people about my relationship with money and the train wreck Of a relationship I have with my finances and Hank just looked at me like that's a terrible idea What are you whoa? Whoa, right, right I wouldn't give you my million dollars if right if I found that out about my financial advisor and arrest 

Jim Gebhardt: my case Your honor 

Matthew Grishman: well and something inside of me just clicked In that moment where, Oh, [00:29:00] okay.

So Hank is presenting me with a fence and on the fence is a sign that says, don't climb the fence. And I'm not only going to climb that fence, but I'm going to take my hat off and throw it over the fence because I'm that committed. Yeah. Right? And just something clicked. As I've become more comfortable being vulnerable in the professional skin that we wear, I don't know, I find myself, it's harder to be vulnerable at home.

It's harder to admit and accept the mistakes that I make, especially with my boys. I'm just, and I'm literally having this realization now as I'm talking with you in studio today. I'm 

Jim Gebhardt: You've shared a lot of your flaws and mistakes and, and foibles with your boys. I 

Matthew Grishman: have, and I did a lot back then, especially when I was writing, uh, Financial Sobriety and, and kind of making some amends through that writing process.

But I have found more recently I'm having a harder time being vulnerable and not being a superhero. in the eyes of my boys [00:30:00] and my wife than I am at work. It's just, it's easier for me to fall on my sword and go, gosh, I really messed that one up. Or share a very vulnerable experience. 

Jim Gebhardt: If the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago.

Matthew Grishman: Is the next best time today? I 

Jim Gebhardt: think so. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. Well, we're talking about progress, not perfection, right? Isn't that part of our journey? 

Jim Gebhardt: Always. Right? 

Matthew Grishman: 100%. I 

Jim Gebhardt: mean, vulnerability, which There's that fine line between vulnerability and dumping all your problems on somebody's doorstep. 

Matthew Grishman: Oh, yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: Oversharing.

Oversharing. That's a nicer way to say it. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah, I like dumping too. 

Jim Gebhardt: That emotional dump of all your problems on the front steps. Right. Yes. So that, that vulnerability that Amy was demonstrating, sharing, whatever, pulled mom and dad right in. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. Oh yeah, what we've been doing here to kind of kick off the year is demonstrating what you and I have been living [00:31:00] and appreciating about connection and realizing with our own wealth, how much wealthier we feel because of the connection in life.

And, and what I love is how you and I are able to look back on our experiences and try to dissect what happened, like what, what's going on with these connections that we have, like you and I have always. We've always talked about, or other people have always shared with us, how you and I have a special thing, right?

We've got this special connection, a special friendship. We have a very unusual business partnership, and an unusual friendship. All of it, like, together. And, you know, that's nice. That's nice to hear from people. What I appreciate is that We've dissected why. What are the different components to what has just kind of naturally happened here?

Much like the very first time I ever sat in a client meeting with you back in the, you know, the mid 2000s watching you with a client when you brought me in to help them figure out some retirement income stuff and I got to observe you for the very [00:32:00] first time create trust. Instantly. And I was, I was blown away by it.

It's like, ooh, that's cool. What he just did was cool. I don't know what the hell he just did, but he did something. And I'd love to understand a little bit more behind 

Jim Gebhardt: that. I'd like to argue that I was being, not doing. 

Matthew Grishman: Exactly. But 

Jim Gebhardt: I didn't necessarily know it at the time. And 

Matthew Grishman: I didn't 

Jim Gebhardt: either. I thought you 

Matthew Grishman: were doing something.

I thought you paid some consultant a lot of money to teach you how to do that. 

Jim Gebhardt: Yes. Wise grasshopper said. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. Right. 

Jim Gebhardt: Not so much. 

Matthew Grishman: But it was just you in your unique ability, which we learned about a little bit later. So I'm really enjoying having this conversation about the holidays and the experiences that we had with our families and, and very different experiences, but with some very similar.

results, which is a deeper sense of connection with one another. And so, you know, we, we talk about the epicenter of wealth is this idea of human connection. And some people argue with me on that. No, no. I like being by myself. I'm an [00:33:00] introvert. Well, guess what? I'm an introvert too. I get all of my energy.

From being alone. That's where I refill my tank. But man, do I love the feeling of being connected to a person. I don't need large groups of people. I really appreciated in last episode when you shared your dialogue with Beth about, hey, we don't get invited to a lot of parties anymore. Good. Exactly. I toiled with that for like, why do I feel good about that?

I shouldn't feel good about that. I want to be the most popular guy in town, but I'm not anymore and I strangely feel good about that. There's a difference between being in the big party versus just this feeling of connection with one other person at a time. Or maybe a couple of people at a time. And, and that is what you and I have identified as One of the most valuable sources of feeling wealthy is this connection.

And there are different components [00:34:00] to it that we've been able to break down. Last episode, we started the Epicenter of Wealth conversation by expressing gratitude and sharing that what we do at the beginning of our show, what we do with our clients, what we do at the dinner table at home, is more than just this feeling or this saying thank you.

But it's become a verb, it's become an action, it's become a how we live our life. It's we live in the essence of gratitude. Especially when the tough stuff happens. Like what was going on with my boys. I could have very easily fallen into the gap. Oh, yeah. With 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, you had to at some point. 

Matthew Grishman: And I was a little bit.

Jim Gebhardt: How quickly you reversed it, right? Yes. And we're doing this show shortly after the unbelievable tragedy of the fires in greater Los Angeles. Yes. And as you and I have expressed to one another and our team, it just got us, it's got us. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah, we're having a rough week. [00:35:00] I mean, not nearly as rough as the people.

We don't have any 

Jim Gebhardt: direct connection. We don't have any family members. We're not, we haven't been impacted directly by this in any regard. But the weight and the heaviness of it has got me in the gap. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: From the fact that it's being politicized already. That we live in a time and a place where We cut everything, right?

We cut this budget, we cut this back, we cut this, cut this, cut this, but yet we have this expectation. Scarcity. Yeah, we have this expectation that we should have the best of anything when all we keep doing is cutting fire department budgets, cutting police department budgets, cutting educational budgets, cutting back on Medicare expenditures.

And yet we have this expectation that everything's going to be You know, a world class experience, and we're supposed to have 30, 000 fire engines and 400, 000 fire fighters to be able to combat something that is an absolute unbelievable Act of God. 

Matthew Grishman: [00:36:00] Yeah, 

Jim Gebhardt: right. So we're breathing in the pain and the tragedy of all this and it It's, and if you catch yourself not being aware that you're in the gap, whoo, you can stay there a while.

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: I've been there, I've been there for a few days now, but it is amazing how when I start to think about gratitude or coming into the studio today knowing I was going to be expressing gratitude over our trip, I can actually feel the chemical difference in my body. Sure. I can feel the, you know, which would be translated to emotions.

But I can feel how the emotions change in my body when I find myself going down the rabbit hole of this one family that, you know, was kind of videotaping their whole experience. Obviously it wasn't a videotape, it was on their iPhone. But how they were trying to fight the good fight. And they eventually lost their house in the fire and they had a GoFundMe page.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. And you just, you know, there's a picture of the mom and the dad [00:37:00] and the three kids and their suburban family just trying to live life. And so it's easy 

Matthew Grishman: to get 

Jim Gebhardt: down the 

Matthew Grishman: rabbit hole. And gratitude as a tool, as an action, as a verb. As a remedy. Is well, it's not meant. Yes, it's not meant to say that hard things don't happen, right?

It's not to minimize. The hard stuff that's happening. This is awful what that family is going through. The question is how do you deal with it? How do you handle it? How do you react and respond to it? Do you let it take you out? Does it become the beginning of the end? Where I take this tragedy that's happening in my life?

Or, where you and I are, are affected because we do have a connection to the area. No, we don't necessarily know anybody there, but we're connected to it. It's, it's a special place for us. We spend time there with Strategic Coach. You bet. I'm, you know, you're next week, I think, or the week [00:38:00] after. You're scheduled to be in Santa Monica at the Marriott place there, or Chicago.

Oh, you're going to Chicago this time. Okay. I'm there in three weeks. Right. Yeah. Right. Right. Okay. And You know, we have friends there. We did, you know, training with Bo in, in 

Jim Gebhardt: Ventura. 

Matthew Grishman: In Ventura County, just on the other side of the hill to where all the fires are. And how many times did you and I We've been up 

Jim Gebhardt: and down PCH.

Matthew Grishman: Up and down, past all those houses in Malibu, and, and there are people we've met. Along the way that are directly affected. So the question is, how, how do we respond to what's going on? Do we let it take us out? Do we go down that rabbit hole of being angry and bitter and projecting that on other people and projecting that on ourselves by drinking and not taking care of ourselves and just saying, screw it, or do we use gratitude as a tool?

To respond more healthfully, the way that family who was taking the video that you were talking about is, Hey, we've lost [00:39:00] everything. This is awful. We're gonna rebuild. We're gonna rebuild bigger. That's what gr that's the power of gratitude. Absolutely. It's a choice. Life's hard. I don't know why we ever thought it wasn't.

Because it was 

Jim Gebhardt: supposed to be easy. Right, it was 

Matthew Grishman: supposed to be easy. Life's hard. Yeah. It just is. Yeah. Even, even with all the technology we have as humans and the fact that we can, like, have this consciousness brain that we don't have to fight for food on the savanna like so many other animal species do, life's still hard as humans.

So, the fact that we have a tool like gratitude to help us with the hard, is it hard to live with gratitude? Yeah. I would also say it's pretty hard to live with the harmful behavior of poisoning myself and numbing out and being angry all the time and isolated and not wanting to be connected to people.

That's hard too. Choose your heart. 

Jim Gebhardt: Choose your heart. I love it. And what an 

Matthew Grishman: incredible [00:40:00] tool. 

Jim Gebhardt: Love it. 

Matthew Grishman: Vulnerability. That's the next, I think, big, when, when I, when I go back and debrief on our time together and what we've experienced. In work and at home, our clients, our friends, our people, when we think about these connections, vulnerability is a huge part of that.

Being able to tell the truth, going back to that very first client, that I had the courage after, you know, Hank put that sign on the fence for me that said, don't climb the fence, oh yeah, watch me. And I sat down with that very first client and said, Boy, I gotta tell you something. And I shared about my history, about what happened in 2005.

Jim Gebhardt: How about when you came into my conference room and, we'll use the word, you were vulnerable with your story of the train wreck of the relationship that you had been, you had had up until that point with money. 

Matthew Grishman: That was probably, and I didn't know it at the time, but that was probably the [00:41:00] first time I was vulnerable within the business.

Yeah, because you were Superman. Right, and you were a potential client. You were Superman in the trade. What was also safe about you was you were a stranger at that point. Right, I was so, I couldn't tell any of my friends. I was at a point. Okay, stop. 

Jim Gebhardt: What the hell is it about that right there? Why is it more comfortable, now I'm not accusing you of this, but I think this is categorically the case.

Sure. Why is it? that you are more comfortable, and I shouldn't use you. Don't 

Matthew Grishman: use me, it's okay. 

Jim Gebhardt: To share your vulnerability with a stranger than you are with those people that know you, care for you, love you, like you, all that good stuff. 

Matthew Grishman: It's the concept of what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. If it doesn't happen in my zip code, it didn't happen.

If I can go out of my zip code and share it out there, the people that know me as the hero that I am, the big deal that I am, Well, I can't tell them the [00:42:00] truth that I'm not. That it's a house 

Jim Gebhardt: of cards. 

Matthew Grishman: Right. So I'm gonna go to this stranger who's in a different zip code, a different area code. In fact, I gotta cross two bridges to get to him.

So that puts enough space between my truth. 

Jim Gebhardt: The Kevin Bacon six degrees of separation. Oh, 

Matthew Grishman: this was like, I was trying to go double. I was trying to go Kevin to the power of two, 12 degrees, right? Is that, is my math getting better? No, but that's okay. Okay. I was trying to get. As far away as I possibly could and I met you and this is I, I think the universe kind of working in weird ways is that I needed to share this with somebody.

I didn't feel safe sharing it with anybody I knew and the universe puts you in my life. Our dear friend Shelby Trinkino, who was a strategic coach buddy of yours and strategic coach version 1. 0. Absolutely, 

Jim Gebhardt: yes, absolutely. You two need to meet. Okay, 

Matthew Grishman: you don't need another wholesaler in your life And I don't need another financial advisor [00:43:00] that I got to drive an hour and a half to go see I had plenty of guys Selling my stuff, but she said no No You need to go do this something special between the two of you and sure enough all it took was that very first meeting and It wasn't a month later that my backs up against the wall because I'm supposed to be in San Diego as some big shot keynote speaker for a huge life insurance company And I've got a town car sitting out front of my house, ready to take me to the airport.

And I've got three maxed out credit cards. And I'm overdrawn on my bank account by 200. How the hell am I going to pay for that ride to the airport? Right. Let alone check into my hotel. Right. Let alone And E all the above. How's Amy gonna pay for groceries with the little boy? We had little boys. Right.

Right? I wasn't getting paid for a month. Right. Well, okay. 30 days I had to deal. Right? Thankfully, I had a job that was going to replenish that, [00:44:00] but man, if I was overdrawn less than a week into the pay cycle, we had kind of hit that, you know, what Malcolm Gladwell I think would label a tipping point financially in our lives.

Right. And I had to tell somebody, but I couldn't. And here Lucky me. Here comes you. And I, and I tell you the story. I take the risk and I'm expecting you to get the old, uh, The old Catholic carrot grater out, right? And that's not what you did. That's not what you did. You did something I had never heard another man or seen or witnessed or experienced from another man, which was, Wow, that sounds like that's a hard way to live, buddy.

Wow. You just, yeah. Wait, what? Wait, you're supposed to be telling me what I coulda shoulda done with all my money? 

Jim Gebhardt: What good's that gonna do? Only make me feel worse? Right. 

Matthew Grishman: Which is what it felt like most people were out to do. But what you did was, you validated that what I've been through is hard. Even though it was my [00:45:00] mistake and I brought it on, it was a hard way to live.

And, and that created enough space for me to hear you share that there was a way out. There was a way out and that is that first time of, of feeling vulnerable for a moment and it just sucked me right in to you. It was like, whoa, I'm being vulnerable. And, and part of what you did that day was you shared some of your own financial baggage with me.

Hey man, that sounds awful. I kind of did some of that too. 

Jim Gebhardt: Oh yeah. To start the business for certain. Absolutely. 

Matthew Grishman: Right? And when you have that kind of vulnerability, where there's a certain intention about wanting to connect, I'm going to take a risk, and I'm going to open up, and I'm going to be vulnerable by telling you a truth.

There's magic in that. Two ways, right? What happened with us in 2005, created two things. One thing is, is it bonded you and me in a [00:46:00] way that kind of planted this seed, this tree, that has grown quite nicely over the years. But what it also did was, it took the power out of those failures, the power that those failures had over me.

The amount of shame and guilt that I felt, because these were secrets, right? Right, right, right, right. It's like I've been carrying this backpack my whole life. And with every mistake I ever made, every screw up, every kick my own ass moment, another ten pound rock goes in the backpack. And that day, I was able to pull one of them out and lay it down in front of you.

And I just felt lighter. I felt like, granted, I had no idea how the hell I was going to get back to Rockland that day because I had half a tank of gas and no money, and I still don't remember if you loaned me 20 bucks or gave me, you probably gave me the 20 bucks. 

Jim Gebhardt: I wish I could remember. 

Matthew Grishman: I don't, it's so long ago.

I don't even 

Jim Gebhardt: remember if you asked me. 

Matthew Grishman: Oh, I, I, we had to because there was no other way I could have gassed my car up. Oh, okay. I had a half [00:47:00] a tank to get to. Yeah, I gave you the money. You gave me a 20. Right. Or you took me to the gas station and filled me up. 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, 20 bucks actually back then could have filled up your crown pick.

Matthew Grishman: This is, yeah, exactly when gas was a dollar, a dollar 80 a gallon. Vulnerability is something we don't see enough of today. But there's a paradox there. There truly is a deeper sense of connection when we're real with people. 

Jim Gebhardt: 100%. My only hesitancy on it is, I don't think the recipient is always necessarily in the right place or space to be able to hear it.

Oh, tell me more. There are times in life where it's, to me it's somewhat circumstantial, right? If I bump into a buddy, and I generally bump into somewhere between six to eight buddies a day at the gym. Right. Hey, Gebhardt, how the hell are ya? That's not an appropriate time for me to go vulnerable with how I'm feeling about this, that, the other [00:48:00] thing, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?

Now, if he invites me to coffee, And we're sitting in the coffee shop, and he's like, Gebhardt, how are you, man? That is circumstantially a better time for me to be able to share a little bit more vulnerability. 

Matthew Grishman: Sure. 

Jim Gebhardt: Right? Because there's the whole courtesy of the, Hey, hey, dude, good to see you at the gym today.

Hey, how are you? How were your holidays? They were fantastic, thanks. Right? You're not gonna 

Matthew Grishman: Does vulnerability require time? Can you not be vulnerable in five seconds? 

Jim Gebhardt: Truthfully? I guess the answer is yes, but I don't see it. 

Matthew Grishman: Okay, so play with me here. We're walking into the gym and you see me walking into the gym.

Go ahead, give me the Hey Grish, how the hell are you buddy? Hey, hey Jim. Eh, I'm okay. Right. Let's catch up sometime. And I keep going. 

Jim Gebhardt: But that was That's just me being real. That was, that was you, because I think naturally, if [00:49:00] we're buddies, I'm gonna stop whatever the hell I'm doing. And want to know. Maybe.

Matthew Grishman: Maybe. 

Jim Gebhardt: No. You, you, you would. Not, not, not me. You would. Right. Yes. But anybody that's a friend of yours is going to be like, what's the matter? Then maybe that becomes the time and space. I don't ever see myself being that vulnerable in a five second interlude with somebody that I'm not actually going to have coffee with.

They're not in one of my inner concentric circles. 

Matthew Grishman: I think that's part of what's keeping the lack of vulnerability out there. I really do. Is that we have these little interludes where we're passing each other in the hallway like ships in the night. How are you? I'm great. How are you? I'm great. And we're not.

And we're not. And if we take a minute to just be vulnerable and real for a minute. How are you? Eh. Oh. Hey, I gotta go work out. Let's have coffee sometime. I'm gonna guess. The opportunity to have coffee and be real with one another [00:50:00] happens a lot more if we have those moments of just being real. Freaking take the goddamn mask off.

And it's not, Hi, how are you? I'm great, I'm great. I'm not always great. And it's really hard for this guy to Keep that up. And I feel that is something I applaud you for that. It feels like it creates space between you and me. By putting the happy face on is another way of me saying I don't have time to talk to you right now so keep going where you're going because I'm going this way.

Right? And it, and it's an invitation to continue that, that distance between us, that we all have as people, as society. There's so much distance between us. 

Jim Gebhardt: So I'm in my own head. Uh huh. Good point. Going, I would, if you're, if you're a good friend of mine and I see you at the gym and I answer that way? I'm going to be more truthful than just with an acquaintance at the gym.

[00:51:00] And, Yes. And, I can think of a dozen guys right now that I will see at the gym tomorrow that I have that, Hey, Tommy, how are you, buddy? Good to see you. Stevo, what's going on, pal? Right. Right? We're your Mr. Mayor and, yeah, sure. Hi, Gebhardt, how are you? Womp, womp, womp, womp, womp, womp, womp. I'm not going to do that with an acquaintance.

One of my actual buds at the gym, that catches me in that frame of mind or mood or whatever. That's interesting. It's just, and yet, the likelihood of being more vulnerable with the acquaintance, in the stories we were just telling, is higher than that with the friends. So, I'm struggling with that because I think I would be more vulnerable with my friends than I would be with an acquaintance.

Maybe. Maybe. 

Matthew Grishman: I'm going to challenge you. That just once, just try it once, when somebody that, you know, when, when we look at the concentric circles of relationship and we've got a situational friend we're walking by and not [00:52:00] somebody who's part of the trusted friends or family or the 2 a. m. club. The 2 a. m.

club is that friend, or if you're lucky, a couple of friends, that if at 2 a. m. you need them to show up, you make a phone call. And without questions, they're there. Yep. Right? And the good old days, at 2 a. m. I need 5 grand to get bailed out of jail, and they're the one sitting next to me, or the one who's willing to bail me out without any questions asked, right?

Not that I've ever been to jail, but it was always a fun little club to, to have. So if it's not that person, if it's just an acquaintance, I've I've done it. I've, I've been walking through lifetime and I'll pass, uh, an acquaintance on a day that I'm just not feeling great. And there's no reason. I just, eh, eh, I'm not feeling it.

Hey, Matt, what's up? How you doing, buddy? Eh, I'm trying. I'm here. Hey, good on ya. You're here. Yeah, I know. We'll catch up with ya. And it just, I'm being real. [00:53:00] And we don't stop for a long conversation and it's an acquaintance and I have no expectation. That acquaintance, 

Jim Gebhardt: let's get together for a coffee soon, is gonna 

Matthew Grishman: want to hear all about it.

Right. What did happen once though you might know where I'm going with this, is that I had an acquaintance who I would say is a friend, although at times an estranged friend where we had one of those interactions in the gym where it was a, Hey Matt, how you doing? Eh? Okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna get upstairs, get my workout and see if I can feel a little better today.

Oh, awesome. Good for you. And then an hour later, I'm in the locker room, and this is a guy who is very confident and sure of himself. He, on social media, has the picture perfect family. He's very successful in life. And he walked up to me in the locker room. I mean, nothing's ever wrong. In his life, in his family, in his business.

Like, everybody wants to be this guy, right? He's just, he's always happy, he's always, he's always winning! And he walks [00:54:00] up to me with towels wrapped around our waist and totally invades my personal space nose to nose. He goes, can I talk to you about something? Yeah, dude, what? You mind, like, stepping back for a second so I'm, like, not smelling your breath here in the locker room?

What's up? I just, I'm dealing with some stuff at home and it just doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel right. Have you ever Dealt with a situation and, and he shared with me some challenges his wife and his oldest son were having and, and how, you know, what is he supposed to get involved? How is he supposed to get involved?

How uncomfortable it was making him feel? And he shared this with me. I was like, whoa, um, yeah, I, I have experienced stuff like that. And we had a nice little conversation and that was probably six or seven years ago. And every time we've seen each other since is, hi, how are ya? I'm great! On his part, he just came up to me in the gym and had another moment of vulnerability last week, where he was stuck with something, and I'm not going to say what it [00:55:00] was because it just, it's too close.

Sure, sure, sure, sure. We're going to really protect anonymity on this person. Sure. And I got to just, hey, you're doing great, man. You're exactly where you're supposed to be. And, and just, I got to feel it with him. So this, this is a guy who's an acquaintance who's not in my inner circle. Who's not one of the trusted friends and family that I shared just a snitch of being real with.

And it created an opportunity for two people for just a moment. A magnet. To have that. A magnet. And we may never have it again, and that's okay. Right. But it was real, and now he and I have a sense of relationship. I think if, if, if I think I know him, or at least know these parts of him, we, we have very different views of the world, politically, socially, but yet I'm drawn to him.

There's a certain level of trust that's been created between the two of us because of that moment of vulnerability, rather than just, I'm good, you're good, great. Where that would have never allowed trust to happen. So could one day the two of [00:56:00] us show up in a public forum where some major decisions are being made?

And although we may be on different ends of the spectrum in what we believe the solution to be, perhaps there's a little bit of progress that can be made because of the trust. That's been sparked between the two of us because of a moment of stranger vulnerability? 

Jim Gebhardt: You both need to go to Washington immediately.

Matthew Grishman: And build a smoking tent for Governor Schwarzenegger? Yes. Yeah, there you go. 

Jim Gebhardt: Outside the, outside 1600. Make it 1601 Pennsylvania Avenue. Oh, holy cow. 

Matthew Grishman: Okay, we're working on it. We're working 

Jim Gebhardt: on it. All right, that's a great story. 

Matthew Grishman: If you hear somebody say this to you, I'm just going to put it out there as a red flag.

How are you today? I'm fine. I'm fine. You've, you've heard that before, yes? Oh yeah, 

Jim Gebhardt: my, my all time favorite, Good, Not Great. 

Matthew Grishman: There's, there's honesty in that. 

Jim Gebhardt: There's honesty in that, absolutely. And then the one that I always used to call bullshit on, was, two to come to mind, 

Matthew Grishman: Better Than I Deserve! [00:57:00] It doesn't get any more manufactured.

Oh, come 

Jim Gebhardt: on. Come on. The cliches. And the guy that used to say it. Oh, my. I'm so good that there's Two of me! There you go. How about this one? Fair to Midland. Like Midland, Texas? I don't know. How you doing? Fair to Midland! 

Matthew Grishman: There might actually even be a little hone There might be a little honesty in that.

Fair to Midland. 

Jim Gebhardt: There's a story there that Sure. I mean, somebody can go wiki it for us. 

Matthew Grishman: Well, there's an axi What's that called? An axiom or whatever? A saying? That just, that came from something. 

Jim Gebhardt: So we started the show with our gratitude and your trip and my trip and Was that today? That was today. And I learned the origin of the password.

What do you mean the password? 

Matthew Grishman: Like 

Jim Gebhardt: the concept of a password? Where did the concept of the password originate? 

Matthew Grishman: You got me. 

Jim Gebhardt: The Tower of London. No kidding. The Tower of London had a moat, [00:58:00] and the moat had a bridge that was a drawbridge. The moat was either 120 or 150 feet, because that was how far a talented archer could let go of their arrow, and it would not be able to go that far.

Matthew Grishman: Okay. 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, in order to get into the Tower of London, into the castle, you had to know the word of the day in order to pass. And the guards at the gate, if you didn't know what the word of the day was, you couldn't pass. And so the concept of a password is about a thousand years old. Wow. Wow. And that's the origin of the password.

Taught to us by an unbelievable yeoman warder at the Tower of London. 

Matthew Grishman: Very nice. 

Jim Gebhardt: There you go. History lesson. Useless trivia for 400, Bob. 

Matthew Grishman: I love it. I love where these rando things come in based on our experiences. Now I want to go back to the word fine. Fine? Fine. Fine. I'm going to [00:59:00] challenge, I'm fine. I'm going to challenge you and our tribe that when we ask the question, How are you?

First of all, don't ask the question unless you really want to know the answer. And I get it, we're walking by people, right? It's okay to be curious for just a second. That is one of the greatest tells that someone's not okay. I'm fine. The word fine. Something just in the human brain is programmed to say I'm fine.

When I'm really not. Because what I am, when I say I'm fine, is I'm either frustrated, insecure, needy, or emotional, or all the above. 

Jim Gebhardt: And, uh, just in case you're, uh, Asleep at this point in the show. That's an acronym. Yes. That's an acronym. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah, it sure is it sure is when when someone says Is this one also 

Jim Gebhardt: from the tower of london?

Because where the hell did you come up with this one? 

Matthew Grishman: [01:00:00] It could be i'm i'm going To protect the anonymity of those that have uh have come before me. This is not something I created This is something i've learned sure and I will give uh due credit when I can cite the original author of something this is With some of the groups of people I get to hang out with and the coaching that I do and the work that I do, uh, specifically in the world of, uh, recovery, we often hear people suffering quietly with a smile on their face.

You walk into the rooms of 12 step recovery, whatever we're 12 stepping, right? They're, they're all often places where people are just getting started on their journey from some pretty heavy hard stuff and a lot of times you don't know who's truly hurting and suffering because they sit in the corner with a smile on their face and tell you I'm fine and we've learned that through that process that, yeah, you're really not.

So that's an opportunity to [01:01:00] connect with somebody. Should you choose? Should you choose to? You could be like everybody else and just, oh great, blow it off and move on to the next because, hey, I got my own stuff to worry about, right? Well, here's another little paradox in the world of human connection. The best way for me to get out of my own head And deal with the weight of everything I carry, this story that's in my head of how hard my life is and all the things I've got to deal with and the challenges and the fires and the politics and the, the world that we live in.

For just a minute, I can get out of my own head by getting into somebody else's heart. It's not about transferring their burden to me. It's simply about holding the space for them to not feel alone in whatever it is they're feeling. There's something about 

Jim Gebhardt: So powerful. 

Matthew Grishman: that kind of connection 

Jim Gebhardt: So powerful.

that's 

Matthew Grishman: just, it's, it's on, uh 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, I just, I, for whatever reason, it immediately brought me back to the COVID pandemic. 

Matthew Grishman: Oh, and the lack of [01:02:00] connection? 

Jim Gebhardt: No. And now that's all we did was get into other people's hearts. Right. You and me. You and me. Doing what we do for a living. Yeah. Checking in on people. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah.

Jim Gebhardt: Right? The videos that we were sending, the emails that we were sending, the phone calls we were making, just constantly. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: Right? In the tireless way that all those brave firefighters and first responders are doing what they do down in L. A. right now and all over the world when they happen is they go run into danger.

Yes. That's how they're wired. And what a selfless, unbelievable way to stay out of your, I mean, in a selfish way, it's a wonderful way to stay out of your head. Yes. To then be able to give your heart to someone else and be able to be there and hold space for whatever they're going through. I seem to be doing a lot of that lately.

Matthew Grishman: Yeah, and it's heavy. It's heavy. And you shared it with me. And that, brother, I love you so much that every time I see you hurt, all I want to do is wave a magic wand and take away the pain. 

Jim Gebhardt: I know you 

Matthew Grishman: do. And I know I can't do that, but what I can promise you is that when you are feeling that pain, 

Jim Gebhardt: [01:03:00] I'm fine.

Matthew Grishman: You don't have to feel it alone. I can sit here with you, right? While you're feeling it. 

Jim Gebhardt: Shut up. 

Matthew Grishman: I'm fine. You're fine. I know you're fine. Of course you're fine. You frustrated, insecure, needy, emotional little bastard, yeah? Hey, give it a try. 

Jim Gebhardt: I'm gonna nominate, uh, the F and the E on that one. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah? Frustrated and emotional?

Jim Gebhardt: Oh, 

Matthew Grishman: yeah. Yeah. That's okay. 

Jim Gebhardt: It's okay. 

Matthew Grishman: It's okay. I'll feel it with you, man. 

Jim Gebhardt: Yeah. 

Matthew Grishman: Love it. It sucks, but, you know 

Jim Gebhardt: This too shall pass, is hymn, is hymn 407 in the, uh, Yes. Hymnal. 

Matthew Grishman: Thankfully, every emotion is a temporary existence, and they come and they go. So, today's episode is an invitation to find deeper connection in the relationships by taking a chance.

Become vulnerable. Share a little bit of real. Ask questions. Be curious about how people are. 

Jim Gebhardt: Maybe it's with an acquaintance. Maybe it's with a family member. Maybe it's with a parent. [01:04:00] 

Matthew Grishman: Either way, it's the epicenter of wealth, brother. But all 

Jim Gebhardt: progress starts by telling the truth. Yes, 

Matthew Grishman: it sure is. This is wealth with a Y.

Love it. And with that, 

Jim Gebhardt: that's a wrap. 

Matthew Grishman: Thanks for joining us today on the Whole Wealth Journey. Whatever your path may look like, our purpose is to make sure that your way forward aligns with your core values and intentions. Are you ready to start planning for a future that's rich in wealth and well being?

Then click like and subscribe and make sure you don't miss a single episode of the Whole Wealth Journey. So if we've struck a nerve with you 

Jim Gebhardt: today, 

Matthew Grishman: Where do people go? You can find us at ge hart whole wealth.com. That's G-E-B-H-A-R-D-T whole wealth.com. And once you get there, make sure you connect with us so you can take the first steps to finding your why.

We'll see you next time. 

Amy Bingham: Jim Gebhardt is a registered representative of and securities offered through [01:05:00] Brokers International Financial Services, LLC, member SIPC. Jim Gebhardt and Matthew Grishman are investment advisor representatives of Gebhardt Group, Incorporated, a registered investment advisor.

Brokers International Financial. Services LLC and Gebhardt Group Incorporated are not affiliated. The opinions in this podcast are for informational purposes only, and are not intended to provide specific advice or investment recommendations. To determine which investments or financial advice may be appropriate for you, consult a financial advisor prior to investing.

Any reference to market performance is based on historical information and there is no expressed or implied guarantee of future performance. Opinions expressed on this program do not necessarily reflect those of Brokers International Financial Services, LLC. The topics discussed and opinions given are not intended to address the specific needs of any listener.

Gebhardt Group Incorporated does not offer legal or tax advice. Listeners are encouraged to discuss their financial needs with the appropriate professional regarding your individual [01:06:00] circumstance.