Episode 150: Building Trust in Relationships Through Interest, Communication and Empathy

How do you unlock the secrets to a healthier, more fulfilling life ? By harnessing the power of relationships. Can knowing the right people really expedite your path to recovery and growth? Explore the profound influence of connections as we share personal stories of overcoming shoulder injuries and heart conditions, all through the support of remarkable individuals. Our discussion sheds light on the "who, not how" principle, emphasizing the incredible outcomes that result from nurturing meaningful relationships.

Trust and authenticity become pivotal in our exploration of connection, as we recount significant encounters with medical professionals and business allies. Hear how the attentiveness and empathy from doctors can transcend traditional care, creating bonds that elevate patient experiences. We also explore the dynamic world of professional relationships, where trust and shared history with partners have proven invaluable during times of financial crisis. This episode reveals how vulnerability and empathy are not just buzzwords but essential ingredients for building lasting bonds.

Finally, we distill these insights into actionable principles for cultivating trust and connection in all areas of life. From setting boundaries and learning to say no, to expressing gratitude and understanding the subtleties between empathy and sympathy, we highlight how these practices can transform personal and professional interactions. Whether it's through developing a "Client for Life" mentality or mastering time management to prevent overcommitment, our stories and strategies offer a blueprint for a life enriched by genuine, supportive relationships. Join us as we map out a path to leadership and success through the unparalleled power of human connection through empathy and communication resulting in trust.

Chapter Summaries:

(00:01) The Power of Relationships in Health
The power of relationships and gratitude in achieving a fulfilling and successful life, highlighted through personal experiences.

(08:16) The Impact of Trust in Relationships
Presence, trust, and genuine connections impact personal and professional relationships, as seen in medical settings and personal experiences.

(17:29) The Power of Vulnerability in Trust
Vulnerability, empathy, and curiosity can lead to meaningful connections and personal growth in all areas of life.

(28:52) Building Trust Through Understanding
Empathy vs. sympathy, understanding others without shifting focus, importance of being understood, financial tools as analogy, creating spaces for connection.

(43:12) Building Trust Through Relationships
Client for Life concept, building trust, vulnerability, empathy, and collaboration in independent financial planning for sustainable business practices.

(48:51) Five Principles of Trust and Connection
Trust is built through simple principles like showing up on time, keeping promises, and taking responsibility for mistakes.

(56:13) Developing Trust Through Boundaries
Learning to say no and managing time effectively are crucial for leadership, trust, and meaningful relationships.

You can learn more about The Whole Wealth Journey by visiting The Gebhardt Group. You can follow us on Instagram @thewholewealthjourney

Transcript

Matthew Grishman: [00:00:00] There was nothing I wanted more than a break from the chaos that was my mind. When we get out of our own head and get into somebody else's heart, because we're genuinely curious and interested, we come out the other side of that experience going, holy cow, my little mouse turd that I was tripping over, ain't there anymore?

Look at that. 

Jim Gebhardt: Quiets the mind. 

Matthew Grishman: Oh, it's an fills. 

Jim Gebhardt: Fills the heart and quiets the mind.

Welcome to the whole wealth journey. 

Matthew Grishman: Wealth with a Y. What does that mean? What does that mean? Are we spelling it funny? Uh, no, I think it's spelled we're using the word why the The word why, right. Okay, good. Not the letter. Why the actual word? Why? 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, I know why. 

Matthew Grishman: Why? 

Jim Gebhardt: Because we want to help people get on their path.

Then the path is all about their why, 

Matthew Grishman: and it's about aligning your finances. [00:01:00] With the people, the experience, and the passions that give their 

Jim Gebhardt: lives. True meaning it's getting way beyond the bank statements, the brokerage statements, the trust documents, the life insurance, and taking a deeper dive into your why.

Matthew Grishman: Well, admittedly, we're not for everyone. This is different. We're for the bold ones who really want to dive deeper and seek a life that resonates with who they really are at their core. Who finds value in vulnerability? 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, 

Matthew Grishman: you and I do. 

Jim Gebhardt: You and I do, and that's where we wanna play. But not everybody is comfortable with that vulnerability.

Matthew Grishman: Maybe we should introduce ourselves. What do you think? Oh, that's a good idea. Jim Gehart. And I'm Matthew Grishman. We are the co-creators of the podcast, the whole Wealth Journey. Ready to find your why. Then let's get started and get you one step closer to unlocking your inner wealth and wellbeing.

What are you grateful for today? 

Jim Gebhardt: We've talked [00:02:00] before, and we're gonna talk many more times about this concept of who, not how. And in my house, Beth and I have drilled, I think is the appropriate word into our kids, the concept of, it's not what you know, it's who you know. Okay. These are big parallels for me because too often, again, as an entrepreneur, we want to control everything right off.

Mike, you were just talking about your own desires and tendencies to want to control everything. Oh, yeah. Right. And we're trying to get outta that business. Right? So I've got lab role tear in my right shoulder that hurts like a, you know what? So get the MRI talk to my doc, you know, she's like, you've got a labral tear.

You need to go see an ortho. I'm gonna refer you to this ortho. I know this ortho. I don't know him personally, I know him more in the community. He's a shoulder specialist, it's his thing. And I, uh, call and I'm just, you know, random [00:03:00] Joe patient and first available is May 19th for a consult. Oof. Yeah. That's not gonna work for me.

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. That's a ways out from the day we're sitting here recording this. That's 

Jim Gebhardt: not, that's not gonna work for me. So hang up. Re-message my doc, but I'm kind of twitching to get in motion here. Don't hear back from her immediately. I didn't expect to. I just love the fact I can message my doctor now and there's actually a reply that happens at some point.

That's a whole revolutionary thing for me. So I'm like, well, who do I know? Oh, Dr. Dave. Mm. Buddy from the club played golf with him many times. Sweetheart of a guy re retired orthopedic surgeon. Oh, nice. I email him, I. And boom, he replies right back with a, an orthopedic surgeon. I don't know, but I wouldn't expect to.

And he says, this is who I've been referring to lately. She's a shoulder specialist. You want to talk to so and so? You wanna dial this number? Don't go through the front door. You wanna dial this number? [00:04:00] I see her Monday. Nice. And again, Monday relative to when we're recording, this is like five days from now, right?

Not 82 

Matthew Grishman: days from now. So by the time this episode's out, you'll have already seen Yes. Said orthopedist right through the back door, like at the speakeasy. 

Jim Gebhardt: That is the reminder to me Of who, not how. 

Matthew Grishman: Oh 

Jim Gebhardt: yeah. And we just can't reinforce it enough with our kids because I'm grateful for the reminder with this little shoulder thing of who not how, and I've told it to the kids as you know, and I'll repeat it a few more times, but I just love when those reminders happen.

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: That you can get further with help. From the right. Who then you can, if you're just trying to do the slog your own, like if I had just hung up the phone and go, okay, I'm just gonna have to wait till May 19th and not sleep well and be in pain and okay, well that's me. 

Matthew Grishman: Well that's what most people wind up doing.

Jim Gebhardt: No. That was not acceptable. [00:05:00] Right, right. That was a very mediocre solution. And it's like, okay, pause, time out. Who, who do I know? Oh, Dr. Dave Sure. Who's a devoted listener of the show, by the way. Nice. Welcome Dr. Dave. Uh, so yeah, so Dave, thank you very much for the, uh, speedy. Introduction to get me back in the game, as they say.

Well, once, once I, once I get my wing, wing adjusted. 

Matthew Grishman: Exactly. That's awesome. Very good. Thank you for sharing that gratitude. Sure. Anything 

Jim Gebhardt: on your gratitude list today? 

Matthew Grishman: Uh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and we're gonna get to it. I just, I, I don't want to come off of your gratitude yet. 'cause it, it, it really, it, it struck a nerve.

It, well, it's part of my gratitude is I'm grateful for you being an example that showed me that that's possible because, you know, I'm one of those kids who kind of never really plugged, plugged into school. Right. Which is where, you know, traditional school is where we go learn how to do lots of different stuff.

And that just, it wasn't for me and it, and it wasn't for my boys either. And [00:06:00] so, something I've always felt has benefited me greatly in life is my genuine curiosity about other people and really being interested in getting to know other people and, and, and seeing you do that. Over and over and over in the 20 years that we've known each other was just validation for me that, oh, wait a minute, developing a, a specialty in who's, by having genuine curiosity and interest in other people.

When you do that for a whole bunch of years and then you pause and turn around and realize all these who's that I have meaningful relationships with in my life, and then I show that to my boys that this is the key to living a happy, joyous, successful and free life filled with adventure. And chasing your wildest dreams is not necessarily about knowing how to do everything you need to do as a responsible adult, but many times it's who.

And to be able to have something come up in life where you can turn to one of [00:07:00] those very important who's in your life because you've built a meaningful relationship is I. Awesome. My gratitude beyond that extends to one of the who's that I got to meet along the way, but specifically what I'm grateful for today also has to do with my health.

It has to do with a couple of the who's in my life who have helped me through my health journey. I am officially off my pericarditis medication. 

Jim Gebhardt: Wow. That is 

Matthew Grishman: not a small conversation. Uh, this past Sunday, I was supposed to take an injection for the four weeks since my last injection. It was a weekly injection.

Then it became after about nine months of doing that, we decided to extend from a weekly injection to an every other week injection. However, if I was. Gonna have any chest discomfort, doc said, go right back to an injection. The beautiful part about the medication is recurrent pericarditis is one of the nice little byproducts of the [00:08:00] open heart surgery that I had.

About 1% of people who experienced any kind of trauma to their heart get this condition called recurrent pericarditis. It's the most painful thing I've ever experienced in my life. Even more painful than the recovery from having my sternum broken. Imagine sandpaper rubbing in your chest. That's how Yeah.

With every breath you take. Yeah, that, that, that's horrible. Well, you, you remember the, uh, you remember I think a little bit of, of where I was and, uh, what I was thinking about at that point in life, which wasn't much other than the pain I was in. So to be able over time to gradually extend the duration between injections is how you test whether the flare up is still there or not.

And so we got to the point where I was taking the medication once a month for the last couple of months, and this Sunday I just decided, you know, I'm not in any discomfort. Let's go another day. And then I wasn't in any discomfort that day. So, you know, I'm, I'm gonna call it after three days of going past that monthly injection that we're, [00:09:00] we're off the medication for now.

So I am super grateful to be free from this most recent flareup. I know that it can and quite possibly will come back at some point. 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, you have a solution 

Matthew Grishman: and I have a solution and I have incredible who's in my life that are keeping that solution wide open. Right? Because this is not a medication that is easy to get, it's going to become easier, but right now it's the only FDA approved medication for the treatment directly of recurrent pericarditis instead of all the off-label stuff I was doing in the beginning.

Oh, this is awesome, dude. It's nice to have a doctor I trust. It's nice to have doctors that I trust. 

Jim Gebhardt: Yeah. Well, and say more about that feeling, right? Because trust really at the end of the day is a sense. Oh yeah. And God bless you. And I have a bit of a spidey sense around this. Yes. In terms of being able to, to assess and rapidly diagnose if there's trust in the room and, and when there's not.

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. So with a doctor and, and, and I like this [00:10:00] conversation about trust because it's very meaningful given our last conversation in studio talking about leadership and, and these are gonna connect. I think they're kind of next door neighbors quite meaningfully. Yeah. I mean, with a doctor, the reason I always trusted him from the minute I met him is because I felt he was incredibly present in the room with me.

He seemed to really breathe in my gas and really hear what it was that I was saying. He would ref often reflect back as I was sharing with him. So let me make sure I heard you right. You're saying that the discomfort happens when you do this and he would literally mimic the body motions that I would put in front of him.

I, I just, I felt like he heard me. Which I felt like he was present with me in the room, which not thinking about his next appointment in 20 minutes. Oh sure. But 

Jim Gebhardt: I think a newer age doctor is better that than they used to be. I don't always think the medical profession was very good at the listening part and it was more prescriptive.

Yeah, [00:11:00] right. Okay. Just do this. Yeah. Right. There wasn't that relationship. Right, right. Because what he's doing by listening is building relationship with you. The byproduct of that relationship is trust. 

Matthew Grishman: Yes. Well, both Dr. Ya Laal and Dr. Menon have both said the same thing to me. That one of the greatest indicators in cardiac health and being able to prescribe, diagnose, decide what's next.

It isn't something you're gonna find on a test. It isn't something you're gonna find on your Echo or your EKG. It's the answer to the question of. How do you feel? 

Jim Gebhardt: Yeah. Well, I, I, how are you? I've sat with Dr. Menin and it was one of the most unique medical interactions I've ever had in terms of the conversation.

Yeah. Because that was one of the key questions. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: And not that I've sat with a lot of doctors in my life, but you know, since Dr. Frank Sani, when I was six years old, that one left the mark who Sure. There wasn't a lot of, you know, so how do you [00:12:00] feel, and that speaks to this concept of relationship.

Matthew Grishman: Absolutely. 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, it, that, that leads, that leads to trust. 

Matthew Grishman: Absolutely. 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, I can't, I can't have any trust if there's no relationship. No. 

Matthew Grishman: Which came first? The chicken or the egg. Ah, I ask that question a lot in here. Ah, can a relationship exist if there isn't trust in the room? Can trust exist if there isn't relationship?

Jim Gebhardt: I think it's harder to have trust if there's no relationship. 

Matthew Grishman: Okay. Well let me challenge that by, by taking us down, uh, memory lane a little bit back to, oh, somewhere around early July of 2005. 

Jim Gebhardt: Right. That was a unicorn situation, 

Matthew Grishman: but Well, but okay. You and I have a common friend, Shelby Trin. Oh, I miss you dearly.

If, if you're listening to the show. I miss, I I'm, I miss her too. I hope you and Marty are thriving. Absolutely. Uh, you met Shelby at Strategic Coach with Lee Brower in Salt Lake City in 

Jim Gebhardt: 1897. 

Matthew Grishman: Exactly. You guys were in a class, it was somewhere around, right around when you opened Gephart Group in like May of oh five.

It was [00:13:00] either May or June that you guys were in class and she was saying to you, Hey, you gotta meet my friend Matthew. 

Jim Gebhardt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Another wholesaler, right? That's just what I want. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. Yeah. But Jim, no, no. You don't understand. You guys, you guys grew up in, I mean, you literally grew up in the same town and you didn't know each other.

And now you both live out on the West coast. Whether you ever do business with him or not, you just need to meet. You guys just need to meet. So we did. We did. We went down. I met you once, and I don't exactly remember that interaction. I don't remember what we talked about other than the fact that we did discover that we were both in the carrier dome when Pro Washington sunk the half court shot against bc BC and won the game before the three point shot.

Right. Where literally they won the game, I think 50 to 49 something. Yeah. Very close it. Some pathetically low score like that. But you know, the, the, the carrier dome experiences that, is it even still called the carrier dome? No, it's not. It's called the JMA dome. You gotta be kidding me. J Jm. JMA wireless dome.

Oh my God. It it could you [00:14:00] imagine if they ever changed the name of at and t in San Francisco? Right. I mean, it would be awful. Right. Or Arco. I mean, if we ever lost Arco Arena here right. In Sacramento. Exactly. I'm calling it the Carrier Dome. Sure. So we at least, I know in our first meeting we got that part established that we were there.

At the same time, we may have even done a little Jewish geography with my old friends from JCC summer camp. Sure. But I don't remember anything about our conversation other than how I felt when I walked out the door. 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, I. Come on. This is one of the oldest axioms out there. People don't remember what you said.

They remember how they made you feel. 

Matthew Grishman: To the point that it almost cost me my marriage at the end of the day when I raced home and declared to Amy, who was out sunning on the back deck. Hey, honey, we're moving to Lafayette. What? I met my business partner. We're moving to Lafayette. This was July of 2005, right?

We foreshadowing, we couldn't have been together more than an hour, maybe two [00:15:00] when we were together in Lafayette. But something happened because it wasn't a month later that my house of cards completely came down and came unraveled. I had a train wreck of a relationship with money that I just, I like to spend, I like to use money back in the day as a grew tool.

Well, it grew on threes. It did, and man, did I use that as a, as a way to fill that hole in my soul when I found myself. In a really, really dark situation where I had basically lost all my purchasing power to the point where my family couldn't buy groceries and I couldn't attend a conference I was supposed to be a keynote speaker at, I had to do something about it, but my ego would not let me share it with a soul.

Except you. I met you once and you of all the people, of all the people that I loved my, I had, I had friends from my old company who said to me, dude, why didn't you call me? I would've lent you money instantly, no questions asked. Like, people I [00:16:00] didn't know were in the 2:00 AM club. Right. Who told me they were on my 2:00 AM club.

Right. My own ego wouldn't allow that to happen. Sure. But there was something about the first time I met you that made me feel comfortable enough to pick up the phone and say, Hey dude, um, can I come see you? You just did. I know. Not a social call, not a business call. This is a personal call. I'm in trouble.

I need help. I'm hoping you can be the one who helps me. And outta the generosity of your heart, you decided to see the wholesaler again. And I came down and I told you the whole story of what happened, how the bank account was overdrawn. Yep. The credit cards were maxed out. Yep. We were getting 50 to $60,000 a month deposits.

But yet within a week of the month looking goes in. Goes out. Yeah. Looking at our bank account going where the hell did all our money go? Right. It just a horrible relationship with money. And I will never forget this part. I will never forget when I told you the story, after an hour of [00:17:00] blobbing away, I was waiting for the judgment.

I was waiting for the, all the shoulds, all the boy, what you could have done with the millions of dollars you squandered, you stupid son of a bee. That's what I was programmed to hear. And instead that's what you were ready for. That's what I was ready for. Right. I was armed and ready. Right. And that's not what happened.

You looked at me and I don't remember exactly what your words were. But it was something to the effect of, holy cow. Dude, thank, first of all, thank you for sharing all that. That just, that, that sounds awful. That sounds like, uh, just a really hard way to live, man. I, I don't even know how you're sitting right here in front of me today, but good on you for just being here.

Yeah. Something like that. Those are things 

Jim Gebhardt: that's, those are things that would, that would typically come outta my mouth. 

Matthew Grishman: Absolutely. Yes. And as you were expressing that to me, I was baffled. Wait, what? What's going on here? What are you doing [00:18:00] it? Somebody's gonna jump out from a closet with a hammer to hit me over the head.

Right. What? Right. 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, 'cause you've been carrying around the shame for a long time and it had just come to a head. 

Matthew Grishman: Yes. 

Jim Gebhardt: Right. So adding more shame to the pile. Isn't gonna accomplish anything. 

Matthew Grishman: You didn't need to be part of my consequences. No. And you realize that 

Jim Gebhardt: you had done a lovely job of that all by yourself.

Matthew Grishman: Yes. Yet we as people will often try to become the additional consequences to other people's bad choices when we never really need to be sure. Because we all know what shame feels like. I felt it. Yeah. What I was amazed at was how you listened, how you really listened intentionally and breathed all of my gas in.

Like, you, you really like took it in. I I, I remember you just, you you're like feeling it with me, right? Oh, I 

Jim Gebhardt: remember what it felt like. It was painful as hell. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. The, well, the fact that you felt that with me was just, I, I'd never, [00:19:00] I'd never experienced that before with another, with another man. It was, it was the first time I watched somebody really listen.

To what I had to say. I don't know that I ever had a friend do that for me. Up until that point. I've had lots of friends and we've had lots of fun, but I don't know that I ever shared my darkness that deeply with another man. Oh, I was gonna say to where they listened. Right, right, right. I mean, and didn't recoil.

Like, ah, dude, I got my own problems. 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, that, that action takes one of our favorite words, which really isn't in the episode so much today, but the concept of vulnerability. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: In this case, you had a need. You didn't wanna be vulnerable, but you had a need 'cause you had a problem you were trying to solve.

That kind of forced you into vulnerability with someone that you had kind of a very beginning relationship with. You had a, a brief interaction with me, but you had some validation from Shelby that this is a guy you need to meet. Yeah. Not, not realizing it would have that kind of spark an impact. Just, you know, two good guys that need to meet.

Right. [00:20:00] And. It is my unique ability Well, so is to, is to listen without judgment. 

Matthew Grishman: Yes. 

Jim Gebhardt: To listen 

Matthew Grishman: to neutral. And, and, and you did that incredibly well. And I'd never experienced that before and even after, I mean, you helped me and I got my financial house in order and, and everything was great for a long time until, you know, the big relapse of, uh, 2015, which, you know, that will save that for another episode.

Sure. Or heck, maybe we'll even write another book about that one. I was so obsessed with what I experienced that I wanted to learn how to do that so that I could give that experience to other people. Right. It was that powerful. Right. I was like, holy shit. A I want more of that from others, but more than wanting more of that from others is I want to, I want that superpower to be able to give that to others.

Right. 'cause that dude was an incredible gift. And when I, when I think about. The lack of trust that's in our world today. When I think about the conversation you and I had about leadership, last episode about this, this [00:21:00] leadership vacuum that our tribe, we are, we are showing our tribe how to step into that with, with our version of leadership, with what we feel is the leadership that's needed for society today.

When I shared with you my obsession for that, we studied it because I don't think we knew at that point that that was your unique ability. 'cause you were like the fish swimming in water. Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, I know you well, and 

Jim Gebhardt: that's the whole concept of unique ability is you, you is, you don't know.

You can't see it. You do it everywhere you go. That superpower is present everywhere you go. It's not just a work thing, it's not just a home thing or a community thing or a charitable thing. That's how that the unique ability is just, you can't see it. So it has to come from. Yeah. Other outside influences, yes.

That can help you see it. So we, we did, we studied it for, we tried to pick it apart and understand what it was. Yep. And through repetition, we saw it [00:22:00] again and again. I, I mean, over and over at this point, we're, we gotta be in the hundreds of times that we've worked together. And you've, you've seen it and you've learned from it, and you've learned how to, how to, how to apply it myself.

How to apply it yourself. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah, absolutely. 

Jim Gebhardt: And when the trust is there, some powerful conversations can happen, right? Yeah. The, the vulnerable conversations can happen. I mean, this is a little in the weeds, but one of the reasons that when we do the financial planning work with clients that we don't charge by the hour is intentional.

It's intentional because sometimes it's in the second or third hour of a conversation when the party finally feels vulnerable enough to open up to. They have this problem, it might be a health problem, it might be a, a relationship problem with a family member. It might be an addiction problem that they're trying to figure out if that's a problem or not.

Right. Well, how does, they might have a 

Matthew Grishman: [00:23:00] spending problem. Sure. I mean, how does that vulnerability happen? Right. How does somebody get to that second or third hour in the conversation and feel like they can be vulnerable? What, what's the trigger that allows that to happen? It's what we studied about your unique ability, the three components to your It's, oh, it's not here.

Stay here brother. The three components that we identified that make up your unique ability to create trust instantly comes from Right. Vulnerability, empathy, and compassion. Sure. Right. But bef going back to when you and I first met after you shared the empathetic statement with me. You then shared some very compassionate statements with me about, you know, just, boy, I, I feel how hard that is.

But you're so close, right? And, and you've got these three really complicated relationships, and I think if we just do a little reverse engineering, we can get you on the right place. But let's kind of start with you. And it [00:24:00] just, it was wonderful where I think a lot of people misunderstand vulnerability is that where you were vulnerable with me first had nothing to do with what you said to me.

The idea of listening and neutral, of listening intently, of listening with curiosity, not for the sake of what you're gonna say next, but because you're genuinely curious to understand that is vulnerability. They say 90% of all communication is done non-verbally with body language. You don't communicate, you don't show leadership in vulnerability with what you say.

You show that first step of vulnerability and how you show up when you show up with the spirit of openness, of trustworthiness, of curiosity, of, Hey, I am really interested, please share with me. There's a vulnerability in that that's palpable. And I felt it. I didn't [00:25:00] know I felt it at the time. Sure. But it's what cracked me wide open to where I sang a song and a river and Right.

You know? Right. And gave you the whole spiel. 

Jim Gebhardt: Right. Some of it is a job hazard. Right. In the sense that usually someone is coming to see us, they have a problem 

Matthew Grishman: Sure. 

Jim Gebhardt: But they don't always necessarily know what that problem is. Right. They're stuck. Right, right. 

Matthew Grishman: And you think, this is a job hazard. Keep going.

I want, I'm gonna have fun with this. I'm, I'm, I 

Jim Gebhardt: mean, I'm being haha when I say job hazard. Sure, sure. It's the nature of the profession. 

Matthew Grishman: I wasn't picking on the words, I was picking on that you think this is a nature of the profession. It's not something unique that you do. 

Jim Gebhardt: Okay, let me, let me rephrase it.

It's the, it's, it's the nature of my profession, 

Matthew Grishman: Adam. Boy, that's better. 

Jim Gebhardt: You having seen the landscape of 10,000 other financial people. Thank 

Matthew Grishman: you. That's where I was going with that. 

Jim Gebhardt: That I, I, I get that, that's my unique ability. Yeah. And I do it wherever I go. Yeah. 

Matthew Grishman: Yes. 

Jim Gebhardt: That was the other, [00:26:00] that's what makes it unique ability.

That was the aha that I had after I went through the formality of the exercise. Yeah. Is I went back to the very first job that I had outta college and I tracked down one of the guys that I worked with who wasn't my boss, but he really wanted to be a mentor. And Was this an old Aetna guy or when you were selling knives?

An old, an old Aetna guy. Oh, okay. And I, I don't even know how I tracked him down, but I did. And you write this particular letter that goes out to, you know, a dozen or 12 or 15 folks and. They want it to be, as, you know, diverse and a, a group of people that have experienced you in life. This is 

Matthew Grishman: identifying your unique ability.

Yep. You're sending the letter out. Yep. 

Jim Gebhardt: And when that came back, it was like, okay. Yeah. That's pretty, uh, that's pretty consistent if I go back 

Matthew Grishman: mm-hmm. 

Jim Gebhardt: In this case, a dozen years or better. Building trust. Building trust at lightning fast speed. Yeah. Right. And the, the other component to it that was very thematic, which I'm, I'm aware of is likability.

Mm-hmm. Right. I have a [00:27:00] genuine likability that people just wanna talk to me. And this is totally my mother. I mean, it is my, the stories I could tell about my mom being on a flight somewhere and she sits next down to her, you know, sits in, in 20 2D and the two people that were left by the time the flight's over, she's gotten their entire life story uhhuh.

Matthew Grishman: That's just another way of saying vulnerability, dude. 

Jim Gebhardt: I know. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: And so this little gift comes directly from my mom. In that sense of being curious, being likable, and also as we learned with Bo, a willingness to be vulnerable. Yes. Yes. And tell our own tale. Because I at times have had a bad relationship with money, much as you did.

And you know, what you couldn't have known in 2005 was that we had just started the business and I was sitting on a hundred thousand dollars equity line from Chase that we hadn't used yet. [00:28:00] Hadn't used yet. Right. But if the clients weren't coming over from Smith Barney, that was the backstop. Right. Right.

And it's like, okay, this has gotta work. 'cause I'd used what cash we had to buy the furniture and the copiers and the letterhead and the legal stuff, and the office space and blah blah. And, but you couldn't, you know, I'm not sure I divulged any of that right then and there. 

Matthew Grishman: Well, you, you didn't because you didn't need to.

Because what I was coming to you with the, the financial woes that I was coming to you with was I was literally squandering money on meaningless stuff. You were investing in your values, your belief in, in becoming the entrepreneur you knew you were capable of being. So I don't, I don't know that the two were necessarily apples to apples that day with, with how you were strapped a little bit for cash at that point.

I get it. But you also, you're what, I guess the, what I'm just, I'm trying to impress upon our tribe here is, you know, we're coming off this conversation about filling the leadership void, and it starts [00:29:00] with eliminating the trust gap. And the first key to doing that, if you haven't yet, is this idea of vulnerability, of showing up with vulnerability in your heart.

It's not about what you say, it's about how you show up. And people are gonna feel that we're energetic beings, right? We, we come with a certain amount of energy and we're all intuitive enough to where we're picking up, right? When, when somebody walks into a room, you can feel whether that's somebody you're gonna wanna approach versus somebody maybe you don't wanna approach.

And it's not a permanent state. Right? Some of the most incredible people in the world have, can have a bad day, and their energy's not good right now. Sure. And you feel that when they walk in the room. Sure. But to me, vulnerability as a leader is that first key critical step to eliminating the trust gap within your team and creating that culture of, of leadership within your organization.

Then, you [00:30:00] know, we, we go from that vulnerability where you opened up, where you just, you energetically opened up to me and I felt this unbelievable pull to share with you everything honestly, that's going on in my life, telling the truth. Right. You. Long before you ever said to me the wise Dan Sullivan words, that all progress begins by telling the truth.

Long before you ever said that to me, you modeled that behavior to me. You showed that this was a safe place to do that. And in doing so, you literally breathed in everything that I had to say and instead of Right, you didn't share with me the financial struggles. You didn't sympathize with me, you empathized with me.

Excuse me, Uhhuh you. You didn't sympathize with me. I 

Jim Gebhardt: thought you should syn synthesize. Well, we've been synthesizing 

Matthew Grishman: for 20 years, dude. But there there's a difference. Yes. Big between sympathy and empathy, and yet I think we. As a [00:31:00] society often lose sight of the difference. You know, we, we, uh, we've got this, uh, old friend of ours, Brene Brown, who's made quite the career dealing with shame and empathy and Oh, yeah.

And helping us get in touch with those. Uh, 

Jim Gebhardt: we'd love to have her on the show dark. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. Yeah. Brene, if you're listening, give us a jingle. Right? We, we'd love to, uh, sit down and chitchat a little bit. Yes. Because there is a distinct difference and, and whether you were aware of it or not, you expressed empathy, not sympathy.

You didn't talk about sympathy, is when you share with me, gosh, dude, that that sounds really hard, what you went through. You know, I went through the same exact thing. Right. Sympathy is when you feel what you're, what I felt youre close. You, you've experienced what I've experienced. Right. And you're gonna share that we, hey, we have a common experience.

Jim Gebhardt: Right. Doesn't feel nearly as good as empathy. 

Matthew Grishman: No. Sympathy's wonderful. But the, the, the challenge with sympathy is that if I'm sympathizing with you, it's really not about you. It's about me. Right. Oh God, I, Jim, I, I went through the same exact thing. [00:32:00] Right. Let me, let me tell you, you know, about my a hundred thousand dollars credit line and you know how we're living on that.

And, and I was not in a place where I, you would've heard two 

Jim Gebhardt: words. 

Matthew Grishman: I, I, I wasn't interested. I was so stuck in my own shit, 

Jim Gebhardt: right. 

Matthew Grishman: That for me to get out of that, your sympathy would've only dug me in deeper. It would've instantly broke the trust and in, and in effect, created a he a much wider trust gap as we were narrowing the trust gap.

It would've blown it wide open if all of a sudden it became about you. 

Jim Gebhardt: And so then vul vulnerability retreats. Correct. Right. 'cause 

Matthew Grishman: it's, it's sympathy and it's all about you now. Right, right, right. Whereas empathy, whether you experienced it or not, you kept it about me. 

Jim Gebhardt: So when we talk about vulnerability, I think it, it, you know, kind of the, the, the layer below that, that we've really never explored on the show is this desire to be understood.

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: That we all have this very deep seated desire [00:33:00] to be understood and listened to. That's the fabric that we cherish in all of our early engagements is we want the client to feel understood. We want our teammates, oh, our teammates. Absolutely. Right. But at the, at the client engagement level, certainly, I'm not trying to dismiss that.

The teammates need to feel understood too. Sure. But all of us, I mean, you just, you a, a relationship goes to the next level when they understand you. Yeah. When they understand your, your challenges, your strengths, your dreams, your hopes, your fears, your, all of those, all of those things. And so in order to be able to make progress in any area of life, in our purview, it's money.

Right? In the money life. But if it's what, if it's in the health life? What if it's in the love life, right. In order to be able to make progress with that relationship, it [00:34:00] almost requires that you feel understood. 

Matthew Grishman: Yes. 

Jim Gebhardt: Right. Because if you don't understand me, I can't really relate and I'm probably gonna be a little hesitant on opening up on the vulnerability side of things.

Matthew Grishman: Sure. If I don't feel like you're trying to understand me. Absolutely. If I feel like you're trying to understand me because I'm watching you, listen, I'm experiencing your listening and 

Jim Gebhardt: thank you. 

Matthew Grishman: You're not for saying it properly. Yeah. You're welcome. And you're not offering me advice. You never offered me advice in the beginning.

You didn't. You started asking me questions. 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, 'cause that's what I do. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. Yeah. You weren't trying to solve my problems. 

Jim Gebhardt: Right? Right. 

Matthew Grishman: You were allowing me the space to sit in the dirty diaper. I made the mess that I made and, and in a way you didn't say these exact words to me, but what you showed me with your action.

Between being vulnerable, expressing empathy, expressing compassion. Right? Those three [00:35:00] key components to building trust instantly the way you did. Without saying these words, your actions showed me that as much as you wish you could take my pain away, you don't have that much power. You can't. Nope. But what you can do is you can sit with me when I'm feeling it, so that I'm not feeling it alone.

I'm not carrying it alone. I'm not experiencing it alone, because I felt like I was understood. That is the essence of creating trust. 

Jim Gebhardt: Yeah. 

Matthew Grishman: And holy cow, have I had a lot of fun breaking that down with you and studying that the last 20 years. Yeah. It's like a, like a masterclass. I feel like we could teach in this category because we've just watched it over too bad.

There's no demand. Right. Well, and selfishly, you and I have learned that there's a byproduct. Of this, that kind of like when we tripped across the buffered ETFs back in 2019 when you and I were [00:36:00] thinking we, we had a, a part of our asset management strategy that was broken, it wasn't working so well and we were trying to figure out how do we mitigate some more of the volatility in the moment, right?

And we thought we had a really cool indicator and it wasn't working. It. In fact, it became the contra indicator, right? 'cause every time it went off, the opposite would happen. 

Jim Gebhardt: And we found a new who, 

Matthew Grishman: yeah. We, we found a new who, and we found these, these things called buffered ETFs. And you know, the way they were always explained to us was is, is that, you know, you've kind of got airbags around your, your index fund, right?

You're, you're gonna track a specific index if over a year's time that index loses a certain amount of money, this thing is going to protect a portion of that. And, and it worked wonderfully. And when we bought them, we didn't realize that there was a secondary benefit that came that we learned during covid when the s and p and the Dow and all those lovely indices dropped like a 

Jim Gebhardt: 30% in three weeks if you're keeping score at home.

Oh, it was awesome on the Dow Jones Industrial average. Right. 

Matthew Grishman: But then they snapped right [00:37:00] back. Yes. Right. It was this like rivaled the rollercoasters of Cedar Point, Ohio. I mean they just, they ripped down and ripped back up. 

Jim Gebhardt: Right. 

Matthew Grishman: And what we learned about the buffered ETFs was how they went through that a little smoother.

Yes. Right. Not only did this thing. Protect some of the downside losses, like what we experienced in 2022, but in the storm of COVID, we learned that they actually had a secondary and ancillary benefit of dampening out volatility. The same thing can be said about this incredible gift of empathy of breathing in somebody else's gas.

What we learned about it is not only does it build trust fairly instantaneously, but it also gives us a way to get the hell out of our own heads for a minute. I don't know if you realize this. When you were doing this for me back then, I would guess two months into starting your own business, you probably were spending a fair amount of time spinning in your own head full of fearful of worry of what ifs.

Absolutely. And me showing up that [00:38:00] day gave you a little gift. Gift and that I gave you a break from your treacherous thoughts for a couple of hours when we get out of our own head and get into somebody else's heart. Because we're genuinely curious and interested. We come out the other side of that experience going, holy cow, my little mouse turds that I was tripping over, ain't there anymore?

Look at that. Quiets the mind. Oh, it's an again, fills. 

Jim Gebhardt: Fills the heart and quiets the mind. 

Matthew Grishman: Another one of those little paradoxical Yeah. Experiences that, well, 

Jim Gebhardt: we learned that in the discovery of picking this apart. 

Matthew Grishman: Sure. Well, so, because when you think about, why is it that empathy is like so hard to express?

Why is it that we don't experience it as often as we would like in the world today is, at least for me, before experiencing you, I didn't have the bandwidth to sit there and listen to most people. Well, they're busy. Well, I just, I got my own shit to deal with. Yeah, 

Jim Gebhardt: you're busy. You got a lot of, you got squirrels in the hamsters up in the cage and [00:39:00] you got a lot to do.

And I got, I can't sit and listen to, 

Matthew Grishman: I got too much 

Jim Gebhardt: my bag of, 

Matthew Grishman: I am worry, as you would say, full. Right. My, I'm like just barely, my nose is above water. Right. But that's the paradox in this, is that there was nothing I wanted more than a break from the chaos that was my mind and the worry that my mind was constantly wrapped around.

Sure. And learning how to genuinely breathe in somebody else's gas, which allows me a doorway into their heart, gives me that break from that worry. It's such a powerful tool as a leader to build trust instantly. Yes. And at the same time, as a leader who's constantly, if you're anything like us thinking about, worrying about where we've been, where we're going, what kind of threats are out there, how do I improve my bottom line?

How do I create more value? How do I take care of my people? Right? To get a break from that constant stream of thought by just jumping into the heart of one of your teammates, one of your clients, one of your family [00:40:00] members, by being vulnerable, by sharing an empathetic moment, and then expressing some compassion.

Even despite the fact that I'm sure deep down you were looking at me and there had to be a little voice going, did this son of a bitch really blow through millions and millions of dollars? Holy shit. How does it, how do you, but instead of that coming out, you express some compassion. 

Jim Gebhardt: Yeah. 'cause that's not gonna do any good.

No. Right. We've sat with other clients that have come in with their bag of shame Yes. Around the money that they've made and how little they have to show for it. Yes. You know exactly who I'm thinking of. Mm-hmm. I mean, we went hit a little bit too much bone with that individual and they kind of bounced out of the boat because mm-hmm.

We were making great progress with the work, but eventually we had to get to the problem. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: Right. As you have said, drinking wasn't your problem. No, not at all. Drinking was your solution. Absolutely right. Substitute spending. Yep. Right. Spending is not the problem. Spending overspending is [00:41:00] the. Solution.

Is the solution the problem being the hole in the soul, 

Matthew Grishman: right, for the entrepreneur control? And 

Jim Gebhardt: let's be impossible to misunderstand. Sure. We are not getting within a hundred nautical miles of the hole in someone's soul unless there is record levels of trust and vulnerability and compassion and empathy in all of our favorite words.

If we're gonna go try to explore what that is, right, we're not getting anywhere near that. And I don't mean that in the context of our desire to want to help. I mean in terms of the willingness of the participant to share. 

Matthew Grishman: Oh, absolutely. 

Jim Gebhardt: Because they ain't going there if these things don't exist. If 

Matthew Grishman: energetically those things aren't there, it's not happening.

Absolutely not. And, and this is where, you know, you shared a little while ago that this is the nature of the job that we do, and I'm glad you clarified that, that this is the nature of the job that we do. Because my experience in financial advisor land from all the years of. Of wholesaling and, and [00:42:00] calling on financial advisors is, you know, there's a lot of really good, nice people in our business that just really, at the end of the day, don't give a shit about that stuff.

It's like, Hey, I'm here to help you make some financial decisions and invest your money for you. And that's all I do. That's all I care about. And that, and that's fine. That's okay. 

Jim Gebhardt: There's plenty of people looking for that. 

Matthew Grishman: Absolutely. 

Jim Gebhardt: We wanna play at a deeper level. Absolutely. We wanna play at a more meaningful relationship level.

Yes. Because we know through our experience that the progress that a client's going to be able to make in their life outside of their money, if they can address their deepest, darkest fears and dangers and secrets, and maybe even the hole in their soul. Or we can get them in the direction of exploring their hole in the soul with the appropriate professionals.

Yep. That is 1000 times more rewarding to you and me. Then coming close to an index in relative performance. Sure, sure. I mean, [00:43:00] really at the end of the day, right, we're not attracted to the client that just wants to make more money with their money. We are attracted to the client that wants more meaning from their money.

Sure. And how can it be in alignment with the people, the passions and everything that they have in their life, that that's what the money is for. The money is simply a tool, and those relationships are much more rewarding and attractive to us if people are willing to play at that level. Brothers, if they just want returns and low fees, right?

There's lots of people that are good people that can help them with that. Right? We're looking for a deeper relationship with our clients that is much more meaningful and I think ultimately going to be more impactful for all parties involved. 

Matthew Grishman: And to your point, at the end of the day, more profitable. You and I have been pounding the table within the industry that we want more of our brethren, our our brothers and sisters in the industry.

To take a more genuine interest in their clients and be willing to be vulnerable and be [00:44:00] willing to express empathy and compassion. Because if all you're selling are beating the index returns and this incredible separately managed account platform that we can plug your money into and charge you two points for, then you're a commodity.

And as soon as somebody else can out commoditize your commodity, you're out.

But if all of a sudden now I take a genuine interest in the human being sitting across from me, and I take a genuine interest in helping them connect the dots between their most coveted values and their money, and be there as a trusted advisor to help them make decisions, not tell them what to do.

Empower them to make the decision, but help them make decisions by asking thoughtful questions based on what I know about them, because I've taken the time to listen and breathe in their gas. Then all of a sudden now what I've done is I've created A CFL. There are lots of people out there who will teach you how to segment your [00:45:00] business between A clients, B clients, C clients.

You and I have two types of clients, CFLs and non CFLs, and we're getting rid of all the non CFLs. CFL stands for client for life. Exactly. Because 

Jim Gebhardt: of the sense of relationship that is in the room. Yes. Right? Yes. It transcends market returns. It transcends an occasional mistake that we're gonna make because we do make mistakes and we're gonna get into that.

Yep. It transcends all of that. Yes. Because of the sense of relationship. Yes. I 

Matthew Grishman: couldn't agree with you more. And, and we're ultimately, we're going with this, I, I know, you know, we're sitting here talking a lot about how we like to operate within our business and the relationship because what we're trying to do is show our tribe that this is what we feel leadership looks like.

And if you can apply some of these principles within your own organization, within your own customer base, let's go back to those four intangible capitals that make up 80% of the value of your business. Mm-hmm. If you [00:46:00] become that leader who becomes very skilled, it doesn't have to be your unique ability like it is me business partner here, but if you become skilled at being able to create trust quickly as a leader.

Where you bring vulnerability into the room. You know how to express empathy and compassion when you interact with people. Think about what that does to your customer capital. It creates, at, at least our experience has been, it creates a stickier customer. Oh yeah. It creates somebody, and because we've built that into our culture, it's become part of our social capital where we just use, I mean, we believe gratitude and vulnerability and empathy and compassion are part of who we are as people.

Yes. That becomes part of our firm's culture, so that when you and I need to exit stage left one day and pass this thing on to the next generation, it's just who Gib Hart group is. Right. Think about what it does from a people capital standpoint, from being able to attract and retain quality [00:47:00] talent who want to be here because of what we stand for and what we represent and how they're going to be treated as members of the team and how unique it is in the industry.

And then. You go document this process of creating trust at lightning fast speed the way we have, and it becomes part of your intellectual property as structural capital. So as you and I have dove off the deep end of connecting with people and building trust authentically because we believe it's our charge as leaders, we've not only increased the value of our company based on the people we attract, the social capital we have and the customer capital that we attract, but it also becomes part of our structural capital and just how we operate.

Right? And I believe this has probably been one of the most meaningful pieces to driving the value of Gephart group higher. And so this to me becomes a do as we say, and do as we do [00:48:00] kind of example. And I'm very proud of it. Very proud of it. 

Jim Gebhardt: I am immensely proud of it because as you've been able to share with me.

I didn't think it was so unique. Well, it take, it takes a who to see it because I'm just talking to Wilson, the volleyball here. You know, being, playing Tom Hanks and Castaway, when you're an entrepreneur in the beginning and there's not a lot of team Right. And you're wearing all the hats, you don't have a lot of people to talk to.

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: And in the concept of relationship, I mean, it's one of the reasons you, you gotta get off your island and go and go network in your industry. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: Right. And one of the reasons I so enjoy the financial planning association and going to those meetings is getting off the island and talking to other folks that are in the trade Yeah.

That are in the business. 

Matthew Grishman: Sure, 

Jim Gebhardt: sure. And just listening, but just again, applying all of these genuine and curiosity, applying all of the things that we've just talked about with the brethren in the business. Right. And you know, when I left the big brokerage firm environment, when I left [00:49:00] the Merrill Lynch and the Smith Barney environment, I had this trepidation that the independent financial planning community.

Was going to be just riddled with scarcity. Mm. I couldn't have been more wrong. The environment I left Yes. Was riddled with scarcity. And one of the most interesting questions when I was doing kinda my exploratorium on how am I gonna leave the biosphere of Smith Barney and actually breathe and live on my own?

One of the guys asked me, I can remember having breakfast with him, he's like, tell me how much of the day, how many hours of the day is the office door open or closed? And I thought for a second and I was like, uhoh, this is a test. Well, it's closed most of the day. Mm-hmm. And he said, and you need to leave now.

Yeah. When people are coming to bother you for questions or thoughts or in insights, that means your value has, uh, exceeded the room that you're in and you need to leave. Yeah. So I did, yep. Thinking that I'd come to the [00:50:00] financial planning community and it'd be, it's the same, it, it'd be this unbelievably scarce environment and it is just been the absolute opposite.

So the ability to be able to go with other people in our industry and learn what they're doing and see how, you know, what's your approach to this? What's your approach to that? How do you handle asset management? What's your solution for this in a very different way. It fosters an unbelievable sense of relationship.

Matthew Grishman: Yes. 

Jim Gebhardt: Because then when I'm sharing, right, when I'm being vulnerable and talking about, this is how we've solved this problem, or, Hey, you know, Tom, anytime you want to talk more about this, and I, I'm glad to open up the playbook because there have been many people who have opened up the playbook for me, right.

That reciprocal compassion for understanding where they're at. That's why it's a unique ability. 'cause it applies wherever you go. 

Matthew Grishman: Absolutely. You and I, I think, have really learned how to build trust at lightning. Fast speed. I think I want to wrap up today's episode with Is there, there's a second little, little art form in trust because you know that [00:51:00] for most people it can take a lifetime to build trust.

We've developed, you have this unique ability. I've developed the skillset in accelerating that process by creating trust much quicker. We also know how quickly we can lose trust. Sure. There are a handful. As I continue to study our behavior, one of the brilliant things that we've done is we've kept things pretty simple as far as maintaining trust, the, the trust that we've been fortunate enough to create in our relationships.

It's equally as important to be able to keep that trust. To maintain that trust. Sure. Especially in a business that is so focused on getting the next client in the door and sometimes forgetting about the existing clients that are already in the firm. Right. That's always been a challenge within our industry.

Sure. Part of the reason why we're able to create these CFL type relationships is because we've kept how we do things. Very simple and very basic. You and I have adapted, again, thanks. In part to borrowing some concepts from Dan Sullivan at Strategic Coach. You and I have been able [00:52:00] to maintain most of our trusting relationships by.

By kind of keeping it simple with some basic principles of how we try to show up every day. And these are rainbows that we're, we're often chasing in the horizon. We don't do these perfectly, but what we wanna leave everybody with here are just a few simple principles that if for just a moment we were to make believe that every rule that ever existed got flushed down the toilet, which apparently it feels like that's starting to happen given this week, given, given the shift, right?

At the, at the yes. Higher echelons of government. So let's make believe every rule, the entire constitution, all the laws of the state of California and all those rules get thrown out. And instead, we're all just going to adopt and live by five principles. Ready? Sure. Let's go. So I just want you to all imagine as I go through these five principles, breathe them all in principle number one, show up on time and prepared, right?

Jim Gebhardt: What a [00:53:00] world that would be. 

Matthew Grishman: Principle number two. Do what you say. Principle number three, finish what you start. Principle number four, say please thank you and you're welcome. 

Jim Gebhardt: Oh, come 

Matthew Grishman: on, Uhhuh. Principle number five, when you make a mistake, own it and fix it. That's it. Think about those five principles and if every other rule in life went away, what would our world actually look like when it comes to being able to trust one another as humans, as leaders, if we all aspire to do those five things to show up on time, prepared to do what we say, to finish what we start to say, please thank you and acknowledge gratitude, whether you're welcome, and when we make mistakes, which it's gonna happen, every human being makes mistakes.

There's no such thing as perfection. It doesn't happen. It's gonna happen when we make mistakes, own it and fix it. What does our world look like if we actually do these five, very [00:54:00] simple five to thrive. Principles. 

Jim Gebhardt: Oh, that's where I would like to live, please. Well, I would like an address in that land. 

Matthew Grishman: So when I said earlier, I don't remember if it was the beginning of this episode or last episode, you and I have made a choice not to live under the disguise of leadership that's being proposed at different levels of government and business.

Big business in our world today, you and I have chosen to remove ourselves from that environment and live in our own world where we get to live basically by our own principles, where we get to connect with people in a way that we want to connect by living by some very basic, fundamental human principles of doing the right thing.

Jim Gebhardt: I have shared this with our kids hundreds of times. I've shared it with a lot of their peers, and my whole belief in, in sharing these principles with them is I really don't care what their profession is, what they study in school, what their career is, if [00:55:00] they. Embrace these five principles, and they live their life at the altar of these five principles, they're going to have a spectacular life.

Absolutely. They're going to be wildly successful, more successful than most because most people are not showing up prepared and on time. Most people don't say, please thank you and you're welcome. Most people ha ha, most people don't do what they say or finish what they start. 

Matthew Grishman: Hey, gimme a cheeseburger, uh, small fries and a coke.

Yeah, I mean, I I, what would the world look like if somebody actually came up to their Starbucks barista and instead of demanding a drink, they looked at the person, saw the name tag, and by name? Hi, Jim. How are you today? Hey, thanks for being here today. May I please have a venti pike with a little bit of cream and two Splendas?

Jim Gebhardt: My oldest son Jack, just said to me the other day, he's like, dad, why do you always refer to everybody by their name? Like we're in a restaurant or something 

Matthew Grishman: because their favorite word. Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: And I'm like, well, I mean, we talked about [00:56:00] this a little while ago. You know, the concept of being understood, it starts with being recognized.

Yes. Right. So if I have a server that's helping me with something, it's like, hi Donna, how are you today? Half the time they're shocked. 

Matthew Grishman: You actually care about what the answer is. 

Jim Gebhardt: Yeah. Yeah. I automatically, they're like, wait, what? What did he ask me? Uhhuh, right. I made a mistake the other day. We, we had a, we had a Zoom scheduled with a long time client, and what happened was I got engrossed in a conversation with, uh, Janine on our team.

Mm-hmm. I lost track of time, completely spaced on the Zoom appointment, and I felt terrible about it, and I immediately Shame on you. Yeah. I immediately ripped off an email to her to say, I am so sorry. Here's what happened. Lindsay's, I'm sure by now already reached out to you with some, some additional dates and just the, the simple fact of, of honoring the mistake and fixing it as fast as we could.

Sure. Right. How many times have we experienced in the land of customer [00:57:00] service where someone makes a mistake but they go out of their way to correct it? Right. Oh, I mean, what has always been referred to, which is unfortunately no longer the policy of Nordstrom, it was, I broke a pair of sunglasses that I bought there.

I broke them. Right. I brought them in and I said, Hey, where do you have a repair shop for these? It was their, their brand FOS back in the day. Sure. Do you have a, like a rep? Can I send these in for repair? And they're like, no, no, no, no, no. Please just pick out a new pair. Right, right. I'm telling this story 25 years later.

Right. Because of unbelievable customer service. Right. There wasn't something that they did wrong. They didn't, so they 

Matthew Grishman: didn't even make the mistake that they made didn't be, didn't make the mistake, mistake, but 

Jim Gebhardt: they owned it and fixed it. Right. Right. These principles, my hand on the Bible, if we were to all live our life with these simple principles, the amount of conflict, the amount of sickness, illness, the hole in the soul, I, I just think a lot of these things would evaporate over time.

Matthew Grishman: Yes. Yes, they would. 

Jim Gebhardt: If there [00:58:00] was consistency around it. 

Matthew Grishman: Yes. A lot easier said than done. Right. As we progress through the show, I think we'll, we'll continue to weave some of these concepts in, I mean, I. Why is it that it's so hard to be on time? Why is it that it's so hard to show up prepared? Why is it, I mean, there, there's a common theme here.

Why is it that it's hard to do what we say? Because I, I know I've, I've had times, yeah, I'm gonna do that. I make a commitment and then I'm just, I'm not capable of following through with, with actually doing what I say or finishing what I start. I've started projects with great intentions, but I've struggled to finish them.

Sure. Especially those first three principles. There's a relationship with a word that you and I have developed incredible intimacy with that you're going to hear us repeat over and over and over for as long as you and I can still suck in air. And it's a relationship with the word no. I was a yes man my whole life.

Right. Because all I cared about was being liked. [00:59:00] Sure. So, of course I'm going to say yes to being in 12 places at once. Sure. I'm not capable of being on time if I'm saying yes to everything. The way you learn how to be on time and be prepared is by learning how to say the word no. Now I'm not gonna tell you what you say no to today.

Jim Gebhardt: No. 

Matthew Grishman: We're gonna spend some more time on that. When it comes to things like unique ability, when it comes to saying no more and saying no to the things that no longer serve, these five principles that serve the human connection, as leaders we're trying to create 

Jim Gebhardt: and it's a muscle it takes and it's a muscle that it takes.

Practice at times is painful. Yes. Sometimes it's very painful to say, no, I'm not going to do that. Right, right. I had one of those this morning. I had a a, a family, a little family thing where I could have gone and picked something up that would've been helpful for Grace, but that was gonna make me like 30 minutes late today.

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: And [01:00:00] I said, no, sorry. Fortunately, Beth was very understanding and sympathetic. 'cause she knows of my desire to want to be on time and prepared only to find out I get on the freeway and there's an accident that makes me 10 minutes late. There you go. But it would've made me later. I would've been even more late.

Sure. Had I not said no. Right, right. Good 

Matthew Grishman: job. So it's a muscle. It is, it is. You and I have spent a lot of time, effort, energy, and money investing in connecting with people, learning this art of trust. It's important, it's critical for us as leaders to be able to establish and make, I say it's the only thing I want to do.

Right. Establish and maintain trust 

Jim Gebhardt: is have deep, meaningful connections in relationships with people. So, and you can't do that without the components to the, the recipe here. 

Matthew Grishman: Okay. So which came first? Trust a relationship. And with that, that's a wrap. Thanks for joining us today on the whole Wealth Journey.

[01:01:00] Whatever your path may look like, our purpose is to make sure that your way forward aligns with your core values and intentions. Are you ready to start planning for a future that's rich in wealth and wellbeing? Then click like and subscribe and make sure you don't miss a single episode of the Whole Wealth journey.

So if we've struck 

Jim Gebhardt: a nerve with you today, 

Matthew Grishman: where do people go? You can find us at ge hart whole wealth.com. That's G-E-B-H-A-R-D-T whole wealth.com, and once you get there, make sure you connect with us so you can take the first steps to finding your why. We'll see you next time. 

Amy Bingham: Jim Gbb Hart is a registered representative of and Securities offered through Brokers International Financial Services, LLC, member SIPC, Jim Gbb Hart, and Matthew Grishman are investment advisor.

Representatives of Gehart Group Incorporated, a registered investment advisor. Brokers International Financial Services [01:02:00] LLC and Gephart Group Incorporated are not affiliated. The opinions in this podcast are for informational purposes only and are not intended to provide specific advice or investment recommendations.

To determine which investments or financial advice may be appropriate for you. Consult a financial advisor prior to investing. Any reference to market performance is based on historical information and there is no expressed or implied guarantee of future performance. Opinions expressed on this program do not necessarily reflect those of brokers International Financial Services LLC.

The topics discussed and opinions given are not intended to address the specific needs of any listener. Gbb Hart Group Incorporated does not offer legal or tax advice. Listeners are encouraged to discuss their financial needs with the appropriate professional regarding your individual circumstance.