Episode 156: Understanding the Leverage of "Who Not How" for Business Success

Transitioning from work to the later stages of life doesn't have to be daunting. Discover how focusing on "who" can be far more effective than getting lost in the "how." Your hosts, Jim Gebhardt and Matthew Grishman discuss how embracing your unique abilities and outsourcing tasks can transform potential roadblocks into opportunities, with real-life examples like planning a memorable family vacation and adapting to technological shifts. In the world of entrepreneurship, we also tackle the identity crisis many face when stepping out of ownership roles, emphasizing the importance of planning and finding fulfillment beyond business.

Building a strong financial foundation is crucial for navigating business transitions successfully. We underscore the need for comprehensive financial planning and the role of a dedicated wealth management team in achieving clarity after a business exit. As entrepreneurs, it's vital to seek specialized advice rather than relying on familiar but less qualified acquaintances. Explore the complexities of financial planning for business owners and learn how bridging the wealth gap can be tackled with expert support. Our conversation is enriched with personal experiences, illustrating the balance needed in both business and personal life to ensure a prosperous future. Properly utilizing the multiple legs of the stool analogy leads to comprehensive success.

To learn more about the "Who Not How" process, you can find the book in this LINK.

CHAPTER SUMMARIES

(00:00) Whole Wealth Journey Podcast Discussion
Gratitude and vulnerability are explored through personal experiences, highlighting the unexpected lessons and support from family.

(08:34) Unlocking Wealth
Shift mindset to focus on unique abilities, outsource tasks, and find the right people for success in life and business.

(17:58) Preparing Business Owners for the Future
Entrepreneurs face identity crisis when transitioning out of ownership, seeking guidance and support for business exit and personal fulfillment.

(28:26) Financial and Business Team Building
Personal financial planning is crucial for entrepreneurs, who often overlook it until a significant event like an ESOP necessitates a shift in focus.

(39:55) Navigating Business Wealth With Who's
Understanding the value of one's business and the importance of a supportive team for financial planning.

(52:12) Financial Advisory Disclaimer Statement
Jim Gebhardt and Matthew Grishman are financial advisors, not affiliated with each other, providing historical market references for informational purposes.

You can learn more about The Whole Wealth Journey by visiting The Gebhardt Group. You can follow us on Instagram @thewholewealthjourney

Transcript

Matthew Grishman: [00:00:00] As a result of being part of these communities for the years that we've been part of the communities, we've built an incredible network of incredible people who do some incredible work.

Hey, what's this whole Wealth Journey podcast thing all about? 

Jim Gebhardt: It's a podcast for entrepreneurs where we're trying to help them connect the meaning with their money. Who are you? Jim Gehart. 

Matthew Grishman: Oh, I'm Matthew Grishman, and we're a couple of financial guys having a not so traditional financial conversation called The Whole Wealth Journey.

Here we go.

Jim Gebhardt: What is on the gratitude list 

Matthew Grishman: today? My gratitude comes in a very unexpected form today. I'm gonna share some gratitude that I had for my son this morning for Miles, the oldest of the, uh, the Grishman boys. [00:01:00] I'm grateful for him because it's one of those, when the student is ready, the teacher appears and I had no idea that I was ready for the kind of teaching he was gonna throw at me this morning.

We had a lovely little. Start to the day where he and I both had a few hours, so we decided to go out and try to play nine holes of golf. So part of my gratitude is that my shoulder, which has not let me swing a golf club in eight months, cooperated enough today that I could go out there and swing it without any pain, without any discomfort.

So that really was a big, a big win today. I didn't hit the ball for shit, but I swung a golf club without being in pain. I got to have two hours with, with my boy, which, uh, is a real treat since moving outta the house. So there, there's some gratitude for that, but there's also a lot of gratitude in, in what he taught me today and what he exposed to me today.

I really, I've really been working hard for a lot, a lot of years on this idea of vulnerability and being vulnerable and being real because when I put myself out there and I'm vulnerable to the world. It [00:02:00] seems to help people. It allows people to relax and, and get vulnerable back with me and, and share their truth and, and unpack some stuff that.

Maybe they've been holding onto for a while and, and something Miles shared with me today helped me get a little more aware of a blind spot there where I am not always so vulnerable. And that's at home with Amy and with the boys that sometimes, 

Jim Gebhardt: oh, I thought, I thought it was gonna be on the golf course with your handicap.

Matthew Grishman: Well, I'm very vulnerable on a golf course with my handicap, as you are always well aware when you're my golf partner. But today he was brave enough. To share a truth that he's observed that the last few times that we've been together, he's felt that I've been wearing a mask and that I've been hiding how I truly feel and putting on a little bit of a game face.

And he was just curious how I'm doing and what's going on, and encouraging me to be more vulnerable with my family, with the people who love me most. And this was something I'm completely unaware of until he said it [00:03:00] and then it was like, yeah, you're right. This, just willingness to let my son be my teacher today and the gratitude that I have for the teacher showing up today in the form of my oldest son and being vulnerable.

It just, it's, it's an incredible teacher to show up for me today in, in the form of my son. Just awesome. I'm grateful for it. Yeah. So a little different gratitude. How about you? What, uh, what's on the gratitude list for you today? 

Jim Gebhardt: It's, it's also a bit of a weird one in the context that this summer our home is a little bit more of a, uh, a recovery and rehabilitation center, and all four kids have, as Billy Crystal said, in that beautiful scene in the classroom.

I forget the movie, you'll remember it, you know, in your sixties you be, you have a procedure. It was a minor surgery, but you're gonna call it a procedure. I forget what scene that is. It's just, it makes me howl. All the kids have some kind of a procedure this summer and we just kicked it off with [00:04:00] Grace's ankle and Achilles.

Emily's got some stuff with her tote, her toes, wisdom teeth. Grant's got a deviated septum that we're gonna get fixed. And what I'm grateful for with all of that is that we're gonna meet our out-of-pocket max deductible for our healthcare plan. No, that's not it. Oh boy. The fact that everybody's stepping up.

Well, in what way? It's beautiful to watch. I mean, you would expect mom and dad to step up. Sure. Right. That's your job. But to see the rest of the kids, Emily Jack Grant all. It's more than pitch in, right? Like her brothers are running up to uc, Davis today to move out the rest of her stuff because she's graduated and the lease is coming due at the end of this month.

Oh, great Graces, she still had, she still had some stuff left in her apartment and. Emily's juggling all different kinds of things with school, but you know, our sprinkler system isn't working since we remodeled, so [00:05:00] she's hand watering while mom and dad are working, and there's lots of little things around the house that mom and dad are always doing that are starting to get done by other people that I'm incredibly grateful for, and I need to express that gratitude, as does Beth, but.

I don't always, I, let's put it this way, I, I, maybe I should have an expectation that they would just automatically step up and help like that, but that has not been my expectation and it's been very wonderful to see 'em do it. Without saying anything, there hasn't been some come to Jesus kind of conversation around the fact that, Hey, look, gang, we all need some help this summer, and everybody's gonna have their turn in the barrel.

So let's go. Okay, so. I gotta 

Matthew Grishman: tell you thank, first of all, thank you for sharing that and I'm thrilled to hear that all four of your brood are, are stepping up and doing their part. I mean, you are kind of six adults cohabitating together and it's not as much mom and dad taking care [00:06:00] of four little ones anymore.

But there's something here that I'm seeing that I don't know if you're seeing, part of why they're stepping up is because Mr. And Mrs. Gbb Hart. The most, uh, entrepreneurial extraordinaire parents I know are allowing the children to step up. For so many years I watched this in your Yeah. With, 

Jim Gebhardt: yeah, with the tariffs and everything.

With the tariffs we had to let all the staff go of, of course. So we don't, we don't, you know, the, the, the wonderful exquisite carrying staff that we've had around the house for all these years, they're, they're no longer no yaha ha I don't want ice showing up on my door. So, uh. 

Matthew Grishman: They, they might, you guys have done a brilliant job in, in, in allowing this to happen.

You know, mu, much like Amy and I have been for years as well, uh, you, you and Beth have just always done things. You're, you know, as entrepreneurs, you're, you're in charge. You control everything. 

Jim Gebhardt: We're human. We're human doings. Come on, get it right. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. You, you are human [00:07:00] doings. And we're not human beings.

We're human doings. Correct? And I'm watching the two of you realize that you can't do everything anymore, and that. For the two of you to do the things in life you really want to do that really bring you great joy and that allow you to have the most amount of impact in the world, requires you to involve other people in the operation of your lives, not just here at Gehart Group, but at home as well.

So, bravo to you and Beth for stepping back and allowing them to step into that place. Thank you. That's awesome. You're welcome. Thank you. You're welcome. 

Jim Gebhardt: Uh, if, if you and I are nothing else, we're a couple of perpetual students. Yes, a book I read, I don't know how many years ago now, 2, 3, 4 years ago by Arthur Brooks, strength to Strength, and we threatened to do a book review on this show.

And you know, maybe in 2028 we'll get to that. But the nature of the book very simply put is, and I'm gonna use one of my favorite golf analogies, is how you [00:08:00] played the front. Nine is not how you can play the back nine. That's one of the big challenges, and you don't need to be an entrepreneur to breathe this in, but you know when you're a young parent, a young, a young employee, a young entrepreneur, and you're getting started and you got tons of energy, and you can just go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go.

That's fine. That worked for you and me for a long time. Long time. Well, I worked for Beth for a long time. After you read this book, it's one of those things you can't unsee. You've now, you've now been exposed to this concept that whatever tools and tricks and strategies you use to play the front nine of life, let's call the, the back nine of life over the age of 50, you'd best play it differently because if you continue to try to play it the same way with go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, and you don't rest and repair the, the machinery all allow the, the mind, the body of the spirit.

So we're [00:09:00] getting, we're getting better. We're, we're a couple of, you know, as my dad would've said, stubborn Dutchman, but we're getting there. 

Matthew Grishman: Well, this is, this ties beautifully into the whole point of what we're here to talk about today. You and Beth have realized that you don't need to figure out how to do everything around your home anymore to make it work.

You've realized that the answer to how do we make this all work is. Who, another three, 

Jim Gebhardt: it's another three letter word. Three letter word. Yeah. Who? 

Matthew Grishman: Right. Who, who is going to help us figure out how to make this all work? And that's where the children have stepped up as these who's that are, that are accomplishing important things around the house.

Something that we've learned here at Gephart Group running our business is that you and I, every time we come across another. Opportunity or another challenge, right? We're dealing with some major technology challenges this summer where everything from our trading, or 

Jim Gebhardt: are they, are they technology 

Matthew Grishman: opportunities?

[00:10:00] Well, the, that's the beautiful lead in, right? It's, it's, you know, we're, we're, we're going through a time where literally every piece of technology from our trading platform to our billing and reporting platform, uh, are all being shut down and, and. Goodbye squash. So we're, we're being kind of forced to upgrade and look at other solutions, which like you said, is creating opportunities for us.

And, and fortunately, you and I are not spending all of our time trying to figure out how to do this. We're learning that there are, who's that can help us get this done, which is making it so much less stressful than it could be. 

Jim Gebhardt: See if, see if you. Agree with me on this one. Whether it's an opportunity, a challenge, a struggle, and you, you come to the natural fork in the road with the how are we gonna blah, right?

How are 

Matthew Grishman: we gonna fix 

Jim Gebhardt: it? How, whatever, how are we gonna, how are we gonna make it work? How are we gonna fix it? How are we gonna afford it? How are we, how, how, how, how, how, how. [00:11:00] It's, it's an imp to me. It's one of those impediment, like, I hit a wall as soon as, as soon as someone says, well, how are we gonna.

You just pump the brakes. Right. You don't know what to do because it just is a roadblock. Yeah. And that's where you and I, thanks to a book that we're gonna talk about in a second, and, and a wonderful author and someone I hope we have on the show one day. We've been able to pivot from that. And as soon as that how question comes up, we don't really obsess about it anymore.

We go straight to the we. We need a who, right. We need 

Matthew Grishman: somebody. Would you agree or disagree that every entrepreneur we meet who's stuck is stuck because of the word how? Oh, a hundred percent. 

Jim Gebhardt: A hundred percent. And that's where, that's where, well, hello. Let's just go back to our analogy with some of the software that is going away.

And oh, by the way, [00:12:00] these were not organizations that were fly by night in any regard. These were. Premier organizations, businesses in the financial services industry that are doing away with one big trading platform and one big billing and performance reporting software that we never thought we could outgrow, let alone they would go away.

They would disappear, right? We immediately were like, well, how are we gonna uhhuh. Then we slowed it down and realized, no, no, no, no, no. There's a who here. Right? There are people that this is what they do. They help solve this particular problem. No different than the magical, unbelievably memorable trip we did this Christmas to, uh, this past Christmas to London and Paris.

A, a trip like that to plan for the six of us would be so overwhelming. And we got, Beth and I got there. We were like, oh God, [00:13:00] how? How are we gonna plan that? Right? And then we found this who, Emily, Kenny and all that she does for travel folks. And we've got clients that are working with her now. And I don't know if she's a listener to the show or not, but we'll give her a shout out today.

You have to just kinda change your thinking instead of getting stuck on the how to flip it to who can help me with this. 

Matthew Grishman: Right. Well, and come on, I, let's be, let's be very clear here. You are capable of planning that trip. You're capable 

Jim Gebhardt: not 100% 

Matthew Grishman: right. You're, you're a world class traveler. You and I have been around the globe plenty of times, and we know how to do the ins and outs of the airports and car rentals and the hotels and the Airbnbs.

And I can change my own oil too. Well, that makes you even that much, uh, more incredible of a world class traveler. Thankfully, we have somebody on our team who is outstanding at that work. Why is it that it doesn't make sense for you to book that trip and put all the moving parts [00:14:00] together? Why is it important that we find a who instead of how 

Jim Gebhardt: Well come on to you and me.

It's blaringly obvious. Yeah. That's, it's not our, it's, it's not highest and best use of our time, nor is it our unique ability. 

Matthew Grishman: Yes. Why? Right. Our 

Jim Gebhardt: super, our superpowers are not best spent on doing that. And as I think all of our, our entrepreneurial clients that are listening, I think it's fair to say if we're gonna be vulnerable with them or they're, if they actually, if they're gonna be vulnerable with us, they're control freaks.

Aren't we all? They're total control. Total control freaks, right? They want to control everything. From their schedule to their people, to their money, to their, all of the, all of that, right? That's part of the reason that gives them such drive. Can we change one word, have their own 

Matthew Grishman: business? Sure. Just one word from them to us because we're them.

We are them. 

Jim Gebhardt: Are we talking pronouns now or what? What are we doing? [00:15:00] 

Matthew Grishman: Well, it's not just the entrepreneurs that are hanging out with us today. It's us too, that we we're control freaks. That's, we've been control freaks for so many years, and thankfully we're seeing the benefit of who not how, and allowing some of that control to go away so that you and I can show up.

Using our superpowers and our unique abilities and, and letting that be how we spend more of our time. 

Jim Gebhardt: Let's also just put out there for the tribe. The book is literally called Who Not How by Dr. Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan. It's a wonderful read. It's an easy read. Please buy it today. I mean, we'll have links in the show notes on it.

It's not like we're getting any bucks out of it. We just think it's a really, really powerful, powerful story to help you start to unlock that neutralism, right, to help you unlock, freeing you up, right? Because what does the world need? The world needs you doing, spending as much time as [00:16:00] you can in your superpowers.

In our case, in your example of your travel, booking, your travel, yeah, of course you're capable of doing it, but that's not highest and best use, and that's, that's what, that's what we want to talk a lot more about today. 

Matthew Grishman: The reason this is so important is, and you and I, we, we've, we've been talking about this as a recurring theme.

It's a recurring theme within our business. We're trying to live by example here for the tribe. As, as we talk about these things. These are really things that you and I are experiencing in real time because as business owners, as entrepreneurs, you and I have realized when we sit there looking at the balance sheets, that 80%.

More, in my case, more of our net worth is tied up in this thing called our business called Ghar Group. And I think that's a common thing with all of our business owners, all of our entrepreneurs who are part of the tribe here, is that 80% of that net worth is tied up in the business and one day we have to be able to unlock that wealth [00:17:00] to be able to support what might be next when we transition and exit from.

The current business that we own today. And one of the things that's going to make that possible is who? Not how? How 

Jim Gebhardt: am I gonna do that? How am I gonna unlock that wealth? That's, it's not, how am I gonna sell this thing? How am I gonna let go? Right. Oh my God, you just told me 80% of my net worth is tied up in my business, and you think I'm gonna let go of the control stick and let, who's help me?

Right? Well, 

Matthew Grishman: you don't have to. You don't have to, if you're okay selling your business for what a fraction of its potential is. But if you wanna maximize the value of what you've built and created, 

Jim Gebhardt: maybe even lessen, lessen the stress and the burden on yourself by having, ah, you know, a team. Maybe a little more free time.

Yeah, maybe if it may. How 

Matthew Grishman: about a vacation? I mean, brother, this is, this is [00:18:00] the identity crisis that every entrepreneur faces when eventually they transition outta the ownership seat, right? We have spent collectively, decades being the person everyone comes to for answers. We're financial advisors for crying out loud, right?

And all of a sudden now we put our business owner hat on, our entrepreneur hat on. And now we need to ask the question of who do we turn to to help us prepare one day for the big exit? Right? It's like this idea of, I mean, I know for me, I've got a lot of fear around this idea of going from a who's who to who's he, right?

So a lot of times there's fear in what might be next as a business owner for me. So the idea of inviting other who's in. That's scary. There's fear. 

Jim Gebhardt: That's totally scary. We have a, a new financial planning client right now. They've been asset management clients for a number [00:19:00] of years, which is a little bef, you know, putting the cart before the horse.

But in some conversations with he and his wife, he has no hobbies. Ooh, he, his hobby has been his work and his career. He happens to be, he's entrepreneurial in terms of the nature of his work, but he works for a very large corporation as a partner. He doesn't have any hobbies. An occasional bike ride and not like a, you know, more like a, a timed competitive bike ride, not a tour de France or something like this.

But other than that, it's like, well Tom, what are we gonna do at the other 60 hours of the week? Sure. 

Matthew Grishman: Let's face it, most driven entrepreneurs. Whether they're in business, whether they're professional athletes, people who have made a conscious or subconscious decision that they want to be the very best at something, and they're motivated and driven to what they do.

Most of those people we meet don't have hobbies because everything they're all about is what they do. And if there's room and time for [00:20:00] other things, it's generally their family and the people that they're closest to, but what they do and how they generate fulfillment and fun in life. Is the vocation. So this is where who's become.

Incredibly important because I mean, I just, I think of my dad, I think of Hank, who at, you know, 80 years old is retiring from 47 years as a school superintendent who, and again, has, has very few hobbies. But what he's realizing, and we've had a lot of conversation, is that he's been open to the idea of having some who's help him figure out that.

What is that unique ability that's been driving him all these years? That when Hank walks in the room, this is what he does and what's so special about him being there, right? It's, it's like he's a fish in water who can't see it, and how can I apply that to other areas of my life? How can I show up and potentially give that superpower away in, in other forms?

And until you become aware of that, what that is, until you go through the planning work [00:21:00] and, and find that who that can help you discover. Yeah, that part of who you are, that's what starts to unlock what might be next. Even if you're somebody who doesn't have any hobbies, which, let's face it, most entrepreneurs don't.

Jim Gebhardt: I'm particularly proud of your dad for that because first of all, he is 80, right? So you're one of your famous talks on, you know, old dogs can learn new tricks. I'm, I'm proud of him for the fact that, first of all, it's an awareness and an acceptance around the fact that I need, I'm gonna need some help here.

Right. I'm, you know, whatever analogy you want, you're over your skis, you're in the deep end of the pool, blah, blah, blah. That acceptance to recognize that you're at a point in your life, whether you're 50, 60, 70, or 80. Right. We have clients that sell businesses in their fifties. Sure. And they're done economically, right, financially, but they've got energy to [00:22:00] do more.

Yes. And that to me is one of the, that is a powerful moment when the entrepreneur, like your dad goes, boy, I think I'm gonna need some help with this. Mm-hmm. And not get too obsessed with the how am I going to do this? I mean, I, I, my dad started to think about reti, the concept of retiring. When he was in his mid sixties, he'd only started his business when he was 56.

Wow. Although he'd been at the career of for a very, very long time. He didn't like the concept of retirement for this very reason. He didn't know what he was going to do. He was stuck on how, he was completely stuck on how, yeah. He knew he couldn't play golf four or five days a week. Okay, they're gonna take a trip here and there.

They had their place in the desert. You know, it just, he didn't have a ton of, of hobbies on that, and I wish I'd been much more aware as I am today of this concept of who, because I'm sure at the time there [00:23:00] were plenty of who's out there 30 years ago to start to help him with this kind of stuff. And that's why I'm excited for us to have a, a show dedicated to this because this, this is a timeless topic that.

Whether if someone's listening to it in 2025 or 2035. The concepts are gonna be the same. Yeah. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. Really what we're, what we're gonna finish up today with is, is trying to help our tribe just through our own experience, right? The, I mean, these are experiences that you and I have had directly in our lives, in our business, figuring out.

Who, the who's are that we need to surround ourselves with to be able to put our business in its best possible position to exit one day, which also happens to be the best possible position to continue to grow the business over the next decade or two that you and I wanna be part of the business. So, you know, when we talk about this idea of preparation for exit planning, we're also talking about preparation to continue growing the business in its most healthful and [00:24:00] impactful way.

That it can do what it's meant to do. And where this really starts and where I'm proud of my dad and I, and I don't know that he's even fully aware that he did. This is the, the first who you've gotta come up with is, is this person to play kind of a role, like a quarterback, somebody who could almost be like a project manager to help you corral all of the who's that you need.

And I don't, I don't know that Hank was aware that he was letting me play that role a little bit, but as I'm watching him invite other who's into his life. They're who's, that he's inviting because we've had conversation where I've asked him questions that have exposed the answer to his question is that particular who, not how, but finding a particular who helping him see what his unique ability is, which is also what's allowing the different who's in his life to show up.

And, and so the conversations that he and I have been having are really kind of threefold in a sense of, hey, the, these are three areas that. [00:25:00] For the last couple of years before retirement, right? He officially retired here just last month, but there were years of conversation and preparation leading up to this retirement where we needed to look at these three very distinct areas of his life because.

Even though he's been a school superintendent working for technically the taxpayer and other people, he's always been an entrepreneur In his mind, he's always treated his district as if it were a business that he were running. And, and he was, I mean, he was running a, a, a, an incredible business and his plan was to create a business after.

A school superintendent called Grisman and Associates, where he would go on and do some, some consulting work. So the conversation was about kind of these three different legs of, uh, an equally important stool, or three, three equally important legs of a stool where it was like, Hey, dad, we, before we can pull the parachute and quote unquote retire and figure out what's next, we need to make sure that we've got who's in our life that can support us [00:26:00] with, you know.

Getting that business ready. Or in the case, if you're a business owner who owns a business, making sure that the, the business is ready for your exit one day. Yeah. 

Jim Gebhardt: You, you optimize, you optimize and maximize the business that you have today to put it in the best possible place. Right. In, in the context of the work that we do.

It's that, that business readiness. Sure. How ready is the business to transition, whether it's an internal transition, a strategic buyer, a private equity, whatever it is. Just putting yourself in that old Boy Scout motto of, you know, be prepared. Right. So that if life throws you a curve ball, you're prepared.

Right. But if you're coming at it from a position of strength and you're building a, a bigger and better team, and a bigger and better business that's more profitable and more impactful and your industry and you're having more fun with it, well, you don't have to sell it. Right? Exactly. Exactly. When you're ready, you're ready to, if the right opportunity comes around.

Matthew Grishman: Yep. Well there, [00:27:00] so there, there are people that we need to talk about that you and I have met in our world that I think we need to share with the tribe today about that business readiness and your business attractiveness, right? Not only are you ready and is your business ready, but how attractive is your business, potentially to a third party outside buyer or internal buyers.

So there's that whole taking care of the business part. But there are two other legs of the stool that we have a client right now who is so hyper-focused. On the business side and getting the business ready, that he's not putting as much time and effort into the other two legs of the stool, which are equally as important, which is his own personal financial planning and his own personal planning.

Right. Is your own personal financial and legal house in order, who are the who's that we need to get involved to help you get that done? And then, like you said, partner a few minutes ago, what are you gonna do with the 60 or 70 hours a week? That [00:28:00] you've dedicated to building and creating this business in your craft.

So there, there has to be an equal amount of time put into personal planning and how are you gonna allocate your time, your energy, your superpowers. 

Jim Gebhardt: When I think of this concept of a dream team of professionals across these three areas, right? The business, the personal financial planning and the personal planning.

Yeah. To help you prepare for this transition into life 3.0. Sure it's self-serving. That Ghar Group is a wealth management, financial planning firm, but I think that's where it has to start. Yes. I think it has to start with the personal planning so that you have any concept of what do you need, right.

What is the, what does the business need to be worth? Right. We had a meeting this week with a client that's in the process of doing an esop, and that's a, that's a unique. Exit strategy. It's a very tax efficient, wonderfully tax efficient [00:29:00] strategy. And they have had to go through a process personally to look at the expenses that the business has been picking up all these years, 30 plus years, that are now going to be on their personal p and l.

Mm-hmm. And as the wife said to us, she was blown away. How much money they actually spend, which translates to how much money they actually need from the sale of the business. Right, right. And that's, that's why we feel as though it has to start that that most important, who to start with is your financial planning team, because that's where you need the personal clarity.

So you're talking about our client that is really focused on the business and not as focused on the personal side. Right. We're gonna pull 'em into our lane here. And I, and I get it, my father was exactly like this. He's like, well, we don't [00:30:00] have a, we don't have any personal financial planning if the business doesn't succeed.

Right, right. I mean, he didn't sound like Walter Cronkite, that terrible impression. I just did. But that was supposed to be a cranky old man saying, you know, business comes first, everything else comes after. Right. Sure. I think that is a very old fashioned approach because you and I have seen it from all directions, right?

We don't often see it from somebody who wants to start with the personal planning, but it does start to free them up when they can start to see what their personal financial plan is gonna look like, and, okay, well, maybe the business isn't exactly in an optimal state to be able to sell it today. Which frees them up to start to have time and space to think about how do they wanna have impact in that personal planning category.

When they do, when all of this culminates, right? When there's a big, beautiful bow wrapped around it and the keys are hand off and the wires received, and here we go, Donna, into the [00:31:00] wild Sunset of Life 3.0. Yep. Oh, it's just, I could do this forever. 

Matthew Grishman: Yep. Ab absolutely. Well there the challenge, right? I mean, yes, you and I could do this forever and we probably will continue to do this forever.

At some point, we're gonna want to take some risk off the table because you and I love the craft. We love what we do. But there's this second part of what we do that's also about running a business and owning a business that's a completely separate craft, right? And that's, that's the part that. There are gonna be some who's that we're gonna bring in to run that for us one day, and they're probably gonna give us a whole bunch of money to, to do that, right?

When, when, when we sell the business and want to get out of that seat, but want to keep doing what it is that we love to do, the challenge that. We seem to keep coming across with our entrepreneurs is that many of them, they don't have a financial advisor because they haven't felt like your dad's example, the need to have one yet at this point in the life, or they're [00:32:00] working with a financial advisor who's not really a planner.

They're someone who's convenient. They were my college roommate. They were my neighbor or the bank that I, I do my cash management with, has been playing the role of, of wealth manager and financial planner, when the reality is that's not, that's not the center of the bullseye of the work that they do, but it's been a relationship 

Jim Gebhardt: of convenience.

Right. My, my favorite example on that is a, a new client that we're working with when they first came to see us, said, Hey, hey, hey, hey. Oh, oh, we love our stockbroker. Right. We just, we just need you to, to help us with the financial planning so that we know that we're okay. Right. And it's one of those where I've gotta bite the inside of my lip because it's like, um.

Well then why aren't they doing that work for you? Because they're a stockbroker. No, I, I, I'm, I'm 

Matthew Grishman: well aware, Sonny. Okay. I just needed to be captain obvious for a second there. 'cause I'm, [00:33:00] yeah. Just the word stockbroker. It gives me a chuckle. 

Jim Gebhardt: It, it is a recognition of you and I know the mind of the entrepreneur because we are them.

They're already thinking of people on the team that they're missing. Yeah. Or people on the team that they need to upgrade. Or just they're, they're doing their own. They're, they're in their head going through their little wait for it Rolodex of people that they're working with that are either cutting the mustard or they're not.

Yeah, and I would submit to the jury that you better have a damn good wealth management team that has expertise and experience in helping with this tr kind of transition, not your college roommate or your brother-in-law. Unless they, that's what they happen to specialize in. Sure, sure. 'cause look, face it, you deserve it.

You deserve that level of expertise in planning because you've built something of value. You, you want the, the best [00:34:00] team you can afford to help you quarterback this whole 

Matthew Grishman: transition. And that's, that's the key right there, brother, is we have, our experience has told us that the wealth manager tends to be the quarterback of the entire team because they kind of have to be and, and just.

The way you and I have built our business, being enmeshed in our communities, getting to know people in our communities because of where we hang out and where our kids hang out, and people get to know what we do and how we do it, and when they need us, our phone rings. And as a result of being part of these communities for the years that we've been part of the communities, we've built an incredible network of incredible people who do some incredible work.

So when we, when we look at just building the personal financial planning team, it's not just the wealth management team. There's an estate planner, there's potentially a strategic CPA that needs to be brought in. There's a personal lines insurance agent that probably needs to be brought in. Uh, there might be some niche planning work, like special needs [00:35:00] planning and, and things of that nature.

We have access to potentially real estate mortgage people. I mean all sorts of people that can be brought in to tighten up that personal financial plan. And you know, last but not least as, as you reach that age of 65 and you get that big fat workbook in the mail called Medicare. And you know, you're, oh, come 

Jim Gebhardt: on.

That's that, that it's free. It's simple to execute and it covers everything, 

Matthew Grishman: right? Of course. Yet, that's why Ebhart Group has invested in an entire division, dedicated and led by yours truly. Beth Gebhart 100% on Medicare advice. That's all she does in her department, within our firm. That's all they do because it's so simple, right?

Jim Gebhardt: Oh, it's so simple. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. So yeah, we're good at the sarcasm thing too. We don't need who's for our sarcasm? We figured that How out. Pretty good. But when it comes to beginning to build the team, building that personal financial team, once that money piece is handled, that's what's [00:36:00] going to give the business owner that peace of mind to be able to look at.

The business side, and then we start to build out the business team, right? Who, who's the team that we need? I mean, if, if the reality is your, your business is likely 80% of your net worth. Question number one is, and, and I'm gonna ask this point blank, and this is not for you to answer other than to yourself today, when's the last time you had your business valued?

Have you ever had your business valued?

Jim Gebhardt: Right. I don't, I know I'm supposed to remember the statistic on, on this in terms of what percentage of business owners have had, yeah, we can make evaluation. 

Matthew Grishman: You can make one up 'cause nobody's gonna fact check us anyway. 

Jim Gebhardt: Well, 87% of all statistics are made up anyway. So of course it is a small ass number of the number who have, of the number of [00:37:00] business owners that have had a professional valuation.

Now as you go through that planning with the wealth management folks, and we'd certainly nominate ourselves to be on that list, you are going to want someone to be able to provide you a who or two specifically on that. Yes. And we've got a few folks on our team, not internally. Obviously, these are an extension of what we do and who we work with, that that's their expertise.

I've got, I've got one, one buddy who, his niche in the, in the business valuation is actually in the valuation of difficult assets to value. Hmm. So I'm having coffee with him one day and I'm like, okay, like baseball cards and well, okay, give me a, you know, hit me, hit me with a curve ball of an asset that's hard to value.

He said, oh, I, I, I can show you the contract where I was asked to value the Golden Gate Bridge. [00:38:00] 

Matthew Grishman: Oh, that's cool. 

Jim Gebhardt: And I was like, well, what would, oh, what would that, why would you need that? I was gonna say you would need that for insurance purposes. Who's buying the insurance? State of California. Oh, gotcha.

Okay. Anyway, point to the story is there are plenty of who's out there. You, you may think you have some unbelievably niche kind of business, I assure you there are. Who's out there? That can help with the valuation of that business. 

Matthew Grishman: Absolutely, and, and we know who some of them are. That same client that I just told you is very much head down working on business valuation stuff right now and, and not as excited or eager to.

Get his own personal financial house in order or even begin to have the conversation of what life after the business is going to look like. We sent him a couple of business valuation specialists, and in fact, after we get outta the studio today, you and I need to talk about, he just got his first valuation back [00:39:00] and it was a number he was not expecting.

So he would like to have a little consultation with you and me as far as who are the next set of who's that he needs to bring in to kind. Well, if I'm, if I can 

Jim Gebhardt: read, if I can read your. Body language there. It was not the number he was expecting in a, in a bad way. 

Matthew Grishman: Uh, it was not a number. He was ex in a bad way because of the first layer of transaction, because it's one partner buying out another partner before he sells it to somebody outside down the road when he's ready to exit.

So we really don't want the business to be valued at a ridiculous value, and he came back and got a ridiculous value. High, ridiculous, high. Oh. Which, which normally is a good thing, right? In this normally is a good thing unless you're trying to buy out the majority interest. 

Jim Gebhardt: That's kind of what's going on here right now.

Sure. That puzzle piece in this whole kind of quarterback analogy, [00:40:00] it, it starts to then give you a data point, not probably nine outta 10 times. It's the opposite of that. Right? Right. Of course, you know the baby's ugly, right? It's not worth as 

Matthew Grishman: much as you thought 

Jim Gebhardt: it was. It's not worth as much as you thought.

And that's okay. But you know, all progress begins by having data, right? Having information. Mm-hmm. So now you can kind of go back to the wealth management team and see how net, net, net, net, net, right net of all fees, expenses, taxes, all that good stuff. And there's lots of planning there. Lots of great advanced tax planning strategies, estate tax planning strategies, all that good stuff that we have, who's for that will give you a number that you can then work with your planning team, your financial planning team to see if that's gonna work.

Right. And, and as you and I have said 500 times in our conference room, financial planning is a series of pulleys and levers and it is a [00:41:00] matter of making adjustments so that. You can start to have the clarity that you're looking for, which ultimately is gonna breed confidence in your financial future.

So, okay, the number isn't, isn't what you want it to be. Well, great, what do I gotta do to make it better? What do I gotta do to make that number? What is going to work in the plan? Because then with your planning team, you can reverse solve a bit and go, okay, well look, we need a half a million dollars to live the lifestyle we wanna live on.

When I actually stop bearing expenses in the business. And I pull them out and I gotta be able to spend a half a million dollars a year, what, whatever the number is. And right now you've got this wealth gap that says you still need another 9.2 million in the business to be able to cover that gap. Or again, we're making numbers up on the fly here.

Sure. But the fact of the matter is that this is all awesome work because you are going to, like you started the show, you're gonna make the business better. Whether you sell it or not. 

Matthew Grishman: Right. This is an [00:42:00] important point too, that we also talked about how where most business owners and entrepreneurs get stuck is they get stuck with how, wait, so my wealth gap is $10 million.

You're telling me that for me to live the retirement I wanna live, I gotta get my business to be worth 10 million more than it is today, or 50 million more than it is today. I'm tired. How, how am I gonna, how, how, how, how, how, 

Jim Gebhardt: how, how, how. 'cause I'm tired and I can't do it all myself. Right, right. You get stuck.

That's the Oh, that, that is stuck in the rut 

Matthew Grishman: for sure. Yes. Here's, here's the good news. It's just a math formula. It's purely just a math formula, and there are value creation consultants. Part of the who's that we have on our team, external who's not members of Ghar group, but external who's in fact who's that we have directly worked with for our own business and value creation, right?

We have value creation consultants that we're working with that are helping us improve the value and increase the value of Ghar [00:43:00] Group, and it's not. You and me figuring out how we do it. It's somebody else. It's a who, who figures out exactly what we need to do. Because for you and me to sit here and look at what we need to sell our firm for one day to live the kinda life that you and I want to be able to live and to have the kind of financial independence, it's a big number, and to try to digest that all of what needs to be done to do that is overwhelming.

So once again, how do we eat an elephant? One bite at a time. One bite at a time. So that's what's incredible about these value creation consultants, is that they help us see the path to how we need to get our business from where it is to where it needs to be. And then their job is to be an accountability partner who helps break it down into these bite-sized day-to-day goals where we're literally just putting one foot in front of the other each day, and we're getting everybody on our team here at Gibbard.

Group to get involved, you're gonna get everybody on your team, within your organization [00:44:00] to own a part of what it takes to create more value within the business, and we get to invite them to participate in the one day, the big payoff with it. So it starts with a valuation specialist. It gets expanded to value creation consultants.

There might be some m and a attorneys that get involved. There might be a strategic banking relationship that needs to be involved. There's nothing more valuable to a business than having an incredible relationship with a great bank in town, and there might even be some need for some additional strategic CPA relationship too.

So. Lots of who's, I mean, not just on the personal financial planning side, but also on the business value maximization team. There's probably 4, 5, 6, who's that can help us get the business from where it is to where it needs to be. And those are people we could help introduce you to. 

Jim Gebhardt: I think for so many business owners, they've been going about it.

They've been giving it all they've got in terms of [00:45:00] their energy and their passion. You know, a lot of times they're, they're. Building something on the fly and figuring it out on the fly. And I'm gonna take a little off ramp here and I promise to bring it back you, you and I have been on a health journey, pretty significant health journey the last few years.

Sure. And I had a heart event in April of 2022 that, God bless. It wasn't a heart attack, but it was some kind of a stress attack, panic attack. The EKG was fine. And with your help, I started working with a cardiology team to start to look at this because I am so passionate about relationship. I didn't have a who, my primary care doctor, let's just say, was out to lunch.

Hmm. And you helped me find a who? So went all the way through the process, had an angiogram. Everything's fine. Well, there's nothing going on. I've never had this episode ever again. I take my blood pressure at home. That's [00:46:00] been good. I haven't had any, you know, funny heart stuff, but of course there was blood work that went in advance of the appointment to, let's see what your cholesterol is.

Right? And I promise there's a point to this. So that blood work came back and said, my total cholesterol is 240 and it's been for a long time, around 200. As someone who, whose family has a history of heart disease in the, in terms of cardiovascular issues, he recommended a statin. Right? Pretty standard issue.

My point to this is that if I don't go through the process, the fact of the matter is we had data to look at. We had data to support why he was recommending a statin. The same is gonna happen for the business owner when it comes to evaluation. It's going to give you data to start to help you make better decisions.

Am I going to be more mindful [00:47:00] of things relative to my cholesterol? Yes. The same is going to apply to the business owner, right? Mm-hmm. If you have a number that comes back much lower than you expect, well great, okay? Be pissed off about it for a day, but that now you can do something about it. You don't have to be the one that has to do something about it.

There are plenty of who's that we can help introduce you to, to start to move the lever. In a direction that gets you closer to that personal financial planning number and, and shrinking that wealth gap. 

Matthew Grishman: That's awesome. That's so cool. You and I, I think almost even sometimes take for granted that we are so ingrained on who, not how, that it's just, it's become second nature to us.

It's just, it's easy there. There's never anything that comes up how wise that I ever have fear over because there's always a who that can help us with it. 

Jim Gebhardt: I'm much better than that. I will, I will admit to the jury that it took me a while. Sure. [00:48:00] But holy smokes, once you get there, like just catch yourself the next time you go.

Who, how, how, how, how, how, how am I gonna, oh, right, Jim and Matt taught me. I've gotta, I've gotta come up with a who for that. Okay. Who? Okay. Here you can easily get stuck on, well, how am I gonna find the who? Right? You've got people in your life that you know are pretty damn resourceful. Then you've got this other cool thing in your pocket call the phone that you could perplexity.

Matthew Grishman: So even the who's are being expanded into the world of artificial intelligence. Hundreds percent. Yeah. Well, brother, we've, I think we've got the money in the business handled, but I think we gotta talk. Well that's, 

Jim Gebhardt: call that, that's all. We're good. We, 

Matthew Grishman: we can wrap the show. There's nothing else we could, except there's that third leg of the stool that I think is the hardest leg of the stool to deal with.

It's dealing with the person behind all of this, right? It's, it's dealing with isn't the hardest. 

Jim Gebhardt: I'm gonna challenge your partner. Is it the hardest? [00:49:00] It's this, I think it's the scariest. That's what I mean 

Matthew Grishman: by by being the scariest. I mean, it, it's the chief, I think the chief activator, uh, of fear of what's keeping.

A business owner or an entrepreneur stuck and not able to move forward is they're not able to answer the question of what's next for me personally. Like, okay, business is great, money's great, right? If, and an entrepreneur is gonna intuitively know. I've created something that's incredibly valuable. Yeah, it needs some fine tuning and it needs some shushing before we could go sell it to the next wanting owner.

And, and I feel pretty good about the financial wealth that I've created to support my life. But holy moly, what, what's that life look like? And, and the reason I think this is the scariest and the hardest part is because we have the data to back that up. The fact that 75%. Of business owners who go through a transaction [00:50:00] regret it one year later.

According to the business readiness survey that the Exit Planning Institute did in 20 23, 70 5% of the business owner respondents in their survey regretted the transaction one year later, and it had nothing to do with the financial side of it. I think that data brother is requiring us to take a pause right now.

We've covered so much today, just with the first two legs of the stool, and here we are trying to digest what you and I, you and I see as kind of the missing piece that makes or breaks the business transaction. Right? Because of the data we have, because of the statistic we are so well aware of, it feels like this third leg of the stool that we need to talk about deserves its own space.

Jim Gebhardt: Yeah. We should probably unpack that a little bit. 

Matthew Grishman: Yeah. So, so let's push pause right here. Let's digest what we've done already, the work we've already done, and then let's come back fresh [00:51:00] in the next episode and really try to really try to lay out what that personal planning looks like, the who's that are involved, and go really, really deep with it, because I think it deserves.

Not only its own episode, but maybe even a series of episodes. Let's see where we go with it. Love it. So with that, my friend, that's a wrap.

Thanks for joining us today on the Whole Wealth Journey. Are you ready to start planning for a future that's rich in wealth and wellbeing? Then click like and subscribe and make sure you don't miss a single episode of the Whole Wealth Journey. So if we've struck a 

Jim Gebhardt: nerve 

Matthew Grishman: with 

Jim Gebhardt: you 

Matthew Grishman: today. Where do people go?

You can find us@gehartwholewealth.com. That's G-E-B-H-A-R-D-T whole wealth.com. We'll see you next time. 

Jeff Holden: Jim Gehart is a registered representative of Integrity Alliance, [00:52:00] LLC Securities and Investment Advisory Services offered through Integrity Alliance, LLC, member SIPC. Gab Hart Group Incorporated is not affiliated with Integrity Wealth.

Jim Gab Hart and Matthew Grishman are investment advisor representatives of Gab Hart Group Incorporated a registered investment advisor. The opinions in this podcast are for informational purposes only and are not intended to provide specific advice or investment recommendations to determine which investment or financial advice may be appropriate for you.

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