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Towards Eden, an Enneagram Podcast
Welcome to Towards Eden Enneagram, a show where we dissect our Enneagram types so we can understand ourselves and have way better relationships.
The Enneagram is a tool that illuminates our motivations, our blind spots, and the differences between myself and others.
We can use it to see ourselves more clearly and to get healthier.
The Enneagram isn’t about what we do. It’s about WHY we do what we do.
Towards Eden, an Enneagram Podcast
#22 - What's Max's Type?!
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Today I help my friend Max figure out his Enneagram type. Is he an 8? A 4? A 7? Or perhaps a 1? We dig into the nuances of each of these types.
About Max Partain:
“I am a Video Editing Freelancer who is attempting to take away the magic of editing and democratize it. I’ve won 10+ golden telly awards for editing which I feel I have to say to establish credibility. I sometimes wear a sleeping mask when I talk so that my ADHD quiets down.”
Connect with Max:
Grab the Enneagram Guide for your type at work for $1! Enter code 'HIELYSE' at checkout.
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Get my free Guide to the 9 Enneagram Types 🌱
This guide is a great quick-reference to help you remember the types.
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Max Partain's Enneagram Journey
Speaker 1Max Partain , I am so excited to have you on my podcast . Max is a friend from college . We studied in the film department together , yes , so we had a lot of late nights , a lot of classes together , worked on a lot of projects at the same time .
Speaker 2We were goofballs .
Speaker 1We brought out the best weird parts of each other in that department A lot of weirdness , a lot of creativity flowing .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 1So , Max , tell us who you are , what you do in life , about your family , whatever you want to share .
Speaker 2Okay , my name is Max Partain . I am a video editor . I have been freelance video editing for about three years now . I started a production company agency thing and that flopped . And then I started another production company thing , and for me that flopped . I worked at the Christian Missionary Alliance as a producer . I worked at Wonderkind Studios as an editor . Then I came back to the creative agency that I had started with my friend and we had a great time and then I realized I could see myself just freelance editing and never leaving my house again and being happy , and so then I kind of made the transition over to freelance editing .
Speaker 1Okay . So that's interesting because a lot of I'll say like a lot of people who came out of our film program , you know , maybe do a Jack of all trades thing where they can do the whole production and all the parts of it , and then what you decided that you didn't like doing all the parts of it and you wanted to just zone in on editing .
Speaker 2Yes , yeah . I found that if I stayed too broad and just was kind of this , like hey , I can do anything , hire me , that I could get the jobs , but they would be for less money , whereas if I specialized and was the editor , the go-to editor , I was perceived as higher value to clients .
Speaker 1At Taylor , the program that Max and I were in in college we did a lot of projects where we kind of rotated positions , right Like somebody would produce , somebody would direct , somebody else would edit , somebody else would run the cameras . Did you even know back in college that editing was your ?
Speaker 2favorite . I came into college knowing that editing was my best skill and I thought that's all I could do . My first directing and cinematography project where we had to film a car was my first time like actually having to direct and film something , and during that shoot I had a mental breakdown .
Speaker 1Really .
Speaker 2I just started weeping oh wow . So anxious .
Speaker 1And .
Speaker 2I like never could have anticipated that , but just the anxiety of having my entire identity around video editing and then having to do something else that I didn't feel like I was good at just kind of like broke me inside and it all came together in front of a bunch of other people during a stupid car commercial , which is very important . Thank you , Kathy .
Speaker 1Kathy , if you're listening we love you .
Speaker 2Kathy and John , who was in your group for that project . I think about him at John Maharg and probably like knowing us also , janine nice , okay , so at least like people that you can trust yes , I don't even know if they knew . I think that my girlfriend at the time , like we went into a corner and I was like I can't do this , I can't do this john maharg .
Speaker 1If you're listening , I want you on the podcast next dude , absolutely , he'd be way more interested than me no , you're interesting . Why do you think you're here ?
Speaker 2oh , I don't think I'm not interesting , I just think he's more interesting . He is interesting , yeah we like John Maharg yeah um , okay , so what else about you ?
Speaker 1where are you located ? Uh , in the country .
Speaker 2I'm located in Chicago , illinois did . I know that you're close me , which is the cool way of saying that I live in the suburbs of Chicago , in Wheaton , illinois .
Speaker 1Oh , you live in Wheaton Cool .
Speaker 2And where are you at ?
Speaker 1I am in La Porte , indiana , oh nice , so probably an hour and a half from you .
Speaker 2Not bad at all .
Speaker 1Not bad . If we have a technical breakdown , I'll bring my microphone to your house .
Speaker 2Then you can just sit right here .
Speaker 1Yeah , oh , that's a dream , we have a cool studio For those of you listening , you can't see . But Max has a really cool setup with his neon lights that say Max , if you're watching on YouTube , you may or may not . I might start a YouTube channel before this episode is out , I don't know , but if you're on youtube you can see it fantastic , you should .
Speaker 2The people , the fans , want to see you the fans want to see our faces yes let's talk about the enneagram .
Speaker 1This is an enneagram podcast um were you , like me , exposed first to the enneagram while you were a student at taylor ?
Speaker 2I was exposed to the enneagram while I was a student at taylor , while on a trip to guatemala with a bunch of other film majors , and at the time I thought it was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard . I thought it was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard Because I was like you can't define me . I am just like what are you talking about ? You don't this . And they just wouldn't stop talking about it , like they would not stop talking about it . And eventually I was like , all right , fine , I'll take the time to actually understand what the heck they're talking about . And I was like , oh , this is actually kind of cool .
Speaker 1So okay , tell , like , oh , this is actually kind of cool . So okay , tell me about your , your journey , your type journey . Like , did you were people trying to type you ? Even then on that trip , like , okay , we can say first of all , disclosure , it is a good practice to not tell somebody else what their type is , um , but especially college age kids tend to do that . So did they try to type you ? Everybody and their mother tried to type me were you getting a full range or were people kind of saying the same numbers ?
Speaker 2They all said the same number . That number was seven .
Speaker 1Okay , guessing they were looking at ways that you behaved and emoted and expressed yourself .
Speaker 2Yes , I was super loud , extroverted , and people wanted me to be a seven . They wanted me to be this like happy-go-lucky goofy guy , yeah , and I think that in their mind that's what a seven is . Or they've known other happy-go-lucky goofy people that are sevens and they go oh Max , you're a seven for sure .
Speaker 1At the time .
Speaker 2That was a little confusing because I would read the seven , you know description and multiple different types of books and I would go . I don't really this doesn't really speak to me like . I don't feel like personally .
Speaker 1This is what I relate to do you remember anything specific about sevens that you really did not connect with ?
Speaker 2hmm , it's a good question . I think I didn't like trying to be put into a a box and I didn't like trying to be , uh , forced to be something that somebody else was saying . I wanted to rebel against that , even if I , like , was a seven . I've always kind of been like a rebellious kid and if somebody told me that I was something , I'd go , no , I'm not . Then I would go do the opposite , and when people told me that I was a seven , I would kind of just like subconsciously , do whatever I could to not be a seven .
Speaker 2I would kind of just like , subconsciously , do whatever I could to not be a seven . And I had a friend who was like for sure a seven and I would go . I don't think I'm like that . I don't think that I view the world in the same way that they do Not to say that it's good or bad , but I just didn't't connect with it . But then sometimes I would read with it and like it was like sevens are the social , fun ones , and I was like I mean , yeah , I'm social , I'm fun , I think . But I think what's also confusing about the enneagram is that I do believe that you can be different numbers in different phases of your life , and that might be contrary to what a lot of people say , but that's just what I believe . I'm interested to hear your perspective on it .
Speaker 1Yeah , so I actually also got mistyped as a seven at Taylor and I think again it was because of this behaviors , you know , like I think you and I both were like very social in college , like to have the friends and like to have fun and like to do a lot of different things .
Speaker 1But but , none of that had anything to do with what was motivating us so when we , when we define enneagram type , it's purely purely on what's motivating us , what are our motivations , and nobody can see that on the outside right . So all these people are saying , oh max , he's gonna entertain us , he's goofy , he's whatever , but they don't know why you're doing all of those things . They have no idea , they're not inside your head .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1And so when we look at the Enneagram system , there is a lot of movement and a lot of fluidity as far as you have your one core type , but then you can look like different types when you're stressed or when you're secure , or this and that . So there's um . You know , we don't want to put people in boxes and I think if you are already feeling put in a box by the enneagram , that's automatically .
Speaker 2To me that's a bad use of the enneagram is just to put somebody in a box yeah , because even on that first trip people would say , oh yeah , you're a seven , and I'd be like , okay , I mean I don't even know what seven means . I've never heard of the Enneagram . Yeah but I'm not gonna argue with it . If you are this sold on me being a seven , I guess . Fine , then I kind of just lived with that in college .
Speaker 1Then what did it take for you to actually want to know more for yourself about the Enneagram ? It sounds like maybe you were a little turned off at that point , I think it was a really hot topic when I was in college .
Speaker 2For sure , and I wanted to be able to be a part of the conversation .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2So I was like , all right , let's freaking do this . I'm going to jump in , I'm going to read a book , I'm going to try and really figure out what I am , and I think I took a quiz . I think I took multiple quizzes Totally . And after I took the quiz , I would read something about how you can't take a quiz to figure out your Enneagram type , and I'd be like this is so difficult , why not take a quiz to figure out your Enneagram type ? And I'd be like this is so difficult , why not ? And it was just that desire to almost fit in , to be able to have a simple dialogue with someone , that drew me into the Enneagram . And then , once I started learning about it later on , I realized how powerful it could be for understanding myself .
Speaker 2But it didn't happen till later yeah because I was so convinced that I was a seven for like years ah , so you actually held on to that I held on to that . I was like sure , I mean I'm a seven , but like I don't really connect with being a seven . Yeah , uh , but I like am fun and social and apparently that's seven stuff , so I'm fun right , totally once .
Speaker 1One ninth of people are fun and social . Yeah , so Enneagram seven
Navigating Identity and the Enneagram
Speaker 1. The motivations of an Enneagram 7 are they . They are seeking satisfaction and contentment . They want to be fully content . They're looking for the new experiences to fill them up so that they feel back to that content level . And they fear being trapped , being stuck . They fear pain , they fear negativity . They don't want to go into uncomfortable emotions because they don't want to get stuck there yeah no I love uncomfortable emotions .
Speaker 2I live in uncomfortable emotions . That's my wife makes her so mad . I just , I really love to feel uncomfortable and to take a situation head on talk about it and then be like all right , we don't have to talk about that anymore .
Speaker 1But I'm not gonna avoid that .
Speaker 2I love it . Okay , eat it up .
Speaker 1I love it and that's such a good example of like you can look at how how college max is behaving on the outside . But literally , you , you're , you are motivated . The exact opposite of a seven like it's nowhere , even close . Yeah , yeah , no , I don't go to avoid , I fight , I'm such a fighter okay , so you told me that you eventually came to four , so tell me about that so this is where the story gets difficult .
Speaker 2it's confusing after college . They don't tell you I mean they do tell you but nobody takes it seriously that when you're not surrounded by a bunch of friends that all think similarly to you , life is lonely without those friends and you don't really know how to make friends , because in college you were forced to have those friends , you were given friends . You will inevitably over time from my experience find yourself in a dark hole , and I found that I leaned towards the Enneagram four when I was in that season because it was like nobody understands me . I'm so unique . I just was like really sad and I found that four was the closest one that I could get to understanding myself in that time four already feels closer than seven for you and .
Speaker 1I'm not inside your motivations , but you , I mean , you've always struck me as um , you know , like a person who's gonna do their own thing yeah and just embrace who they are .
Speaker 1Um so okay . So I'll go over fours a little bit , and this will be an interesting episode , you know , for the kind of people who are trying to , like , figure out their type or maybe understand the differences between some types . So here's what four and seven have in common they're both very imaginative . Four is actually a number that's motivated by the need to to be and feel special and unique . They don't want to be like everybody else check , check check , check .
Speaker 1They have a . They have like this desire to fit in , while at the same time always having this nagging feeling that they don't quite fit in with everybody else .
Speaker 2And .
Speaker 1Enneagram four has this feeling of like I'm just always on the outside looking in and there's something that everybody else has that I don't quite have it , and why don't I have it in , and so I must have like some fatal flaw , and how can I like fix my fatal flaw ?
Speaker 2yes , yeah , I totally uh relate with that .
Speaker 2After college I felt like I was like trying to process this significant change yeah and I didn't feel like I was doing a good job and I wasn't opening up about how I was feeling to friends , because I didn't really have friends right after college , like I had my now wife and she was awesome and she took me out of that dark hole and drug me out of there dark hole and drug me out of there . So I'm so thankful for that . But it was a really complex time for me because I was . I didn't know who I was . I was grappling with my identity . I was an ra my last year of college and I was in charge of a bunch of people . Then you go home and you're in charge of nothing .
Speaker 2That was when I was definitely at my lowest for sure , like if I look at the arc of my life , that was the low point from what I found so far . There are probably going to be more low points , but unfortunately so far it's been uphill since then , in a good way .
Speaker 1Yeah , I appreciate how open you are because , okay , obviously I love the Enneagram , that's why I make this podcast , but there's so many other things going on in life , right , there's circumstances , there's seasons of life that we're in , there's mental health , like many . Many factors go into who we are as a person and how how we are as a person at any given time , so you've really been beautifully uh , painting a picture of what that season of life was like for you . And what was that ?
Speaker 2a few years after college yeah , so that was about two or three years after college . Uh , and I also want to say like I apologize if this isn't like as pointed of an episode as you were hoping for , where I'm a distinct number , uh , no , this is fun for me journey .
Speaker 1I think it's cool to um even to explore , you know , a few different types , right , because many people are are where you are , where it's like .
Speaker 2Maybe I don't feel like I fit quite with what I what I've learned about these different types yeah , I think it could be easy to to not be able to understand yourself well enough that it's hard to put like a specific Enneagram number on it . I found that as I've continued to write and try to process my brain through writing , it's helped me figure out better who I am and where I fit in the Enneagram .
Speaker 1Have you always been a writer ?
Speaker 2No , no , no , no , no , no , no , not at all Hated writing . Never , never
Enneagram Types Explained and Compared
Speaker 2I have . I remember one time I wrote something in college , as one does , and it was more like a personal thing , about like coffee , and my parents were like you're like a really good writer , but like who cares if your parents say it ? So I at the time was like thanks , mom , and didn't really take it seriously .
Speaker 2And as I've continued to write , I found that it's not necessarily like the fact that I'm a gifted writer . It's more about the volume of writing that I've done and shared . And eventually , as you share more and more , you continue to hone your craft and figure out how you speak and how you talk , that then you can write in a way that's so easy for people to grasp because you've taken so much time to hone it in that now I feel like when I write , I can . I can write rather pointed things that audiences can connect with , but I still have so much more to go , cause I am again I this isn't like some natural gift that I've gotten , I've just done it a lot . I've just I'm like this is important for me to write that I've gotten , I've just done it a lot .
Speaker 1I've just I'm like this is important for me to write it .
Speaker 2It almost reminds me of you know the thing they say in business like target audience , and then you zero in and then you niche down , which is kind of what you've done with editing , but even with your writing , like talking about how you you write in such a pointed , you know specific way that it it kind of makes it more impactful yeah , and now with ai it's like you can write , uh , your thoughts , and then you can write a thought on how you want those thoughts organized , and then it'll go and organize your thoughts and it's it's insane , crazy , but I find that's . That's some of my worst writing whenever I do that oh , some of your worst writing yeah , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2I'm sure it'll get to a point where it'll be able to correctly mimic exactly my flavor and tone , but I just don't think I found the right prompt for that yet .
Speaker 1Okay , so tell me , where are you nowadays with your ?
Speaker 2Enneagram journey Complicated and I find that when people ask me I , I say , oh , I am for sure an eight . But then there'll be random conversations where I'm like am I an eight ? Like in this conversation it'll be like well , maybe I'm a four , because those things that you said about fours and their motivations were like check , check , check , check . But then when I consider an eight and their motivations , I don't know if I am as in line as I am with the fours .
Speaker 1Well , tell me what you do relate to about eights .
Speaker 2Their need for control , pursuit of justice and fairness . Those are like huge for me . Desire to make an impact , uh , need for respect and strength , uh , desire for self-reliance and independence , like all . All those are huge checks . But then I also relate with the four of like I need to be different , I , I need to blah , blah , blah , yeah , but I don't really lean towards nines , like wing nines , because I'm not really a peacemaker . I mean .
Speaker 2I love justice , like I think I would make an excellent judge , but I don't think that's out of an effort to make peace . I mean , maybe it is out of an effort to make peace , is it just the ?
Speaker 1sake of like justice for the sake of justice , or where do you think that comes from ?
Speaker 2I mean , it's about being fair . It's got to to be fair , otherwise what are we doing ?
Speaker 1Does that fairness go pretty deep for you .
Speaker 2Extremely deep . It has to be fair . I get so mad when things aren't fair . My wife hates it about me . I'll do the dishes if you clean the laundry , because that's fair .
Speaker 1It doesn't work well in marriage um , okay , so could I talk a little bit more about eight and then maybe throw eight and four against each other ?
Speaker 1yes we can talk it out . So eights eights are motivated by a desire for um power , strength . They want to mask vulnerability , so that's really important to them . They don't like showing vulnerability . And eights they do care about control . Mostly they don't want to be controlled , but they also do enjoy having some control . And eights fear looking weak . They fear showing their vulnerability again and they also are very much like protective people . Go ahead , what do you have to say ?
Speaker 2I mean it's like I don't feel , like I fear vulnerability I mean max .
Speaker 1When I emailed you about this podcast , you sent me a link to eight different , very transparent , vulnerable personal essays that you had written that's where I don't connect .
Speaker 2I don't connect with the eight in that way I'll be as vulnerable as possible . Yeah , to help you try and understand me okay , so let's talk about that .
Speaker 1So this is a very four thing is they want to be so understood . Now here's an eight's attitude . Eights , eights are actually misunderstood as well , right ? So eights , very misunderstood number . Fours very misunderstood number . If an eight feels like somebody doesn't misunderstand them , they're gonna probably just walk by , say f you , I'm gonna go live my life , I don't care , and move on , whereas a four ? It's very much more important for the four to say no , like I need you to get me , I need you to understand me and I'm going to help you understand what is going on inside of me ?
Speaker 2yeah , 100 , that's totally what I do .
Speaker 1I need you to understand me yeah , do you have um anything pulled up on your screen where you can see like the arrows connecting different numbers ? Uh , yeah , I can pull it up right now you could just do like um enneagram for stress lines , and I want to talk a little bit about four and one , because you'll see there's a line there and in in it's connecting type four and type one okay so so I'm really struck by what you're saying about the fairness piece , right , because yeah , like um , when we look at the centers , we have the body types .
Speaker 1Eight , nine and one , and eight , nine and one are all very concerned with fairness and with justice . And when I was talking earlier about the movement around the types and there's an interesting connection with four and one , where four and one have this easy access to each other , so a lot of ones they can take on characteristics of fours and vice versa . Now , type one is a number who cares very deeply about fairness , very much about justice , and ones have this really loud inner critic in their voices that is kind of telling them when they're getting it wrong or they're not good enough or they need to .
Speaker 2I'm extremely mean to myself , yeah it's hard , isn't it ?
Speaker 1yeah so with yeah and and then so with ones . The difference between four and one is ones . Their fear is of being bad or wrong and of making mistakes or like being incorrect . They really want to be good , they want to do the right thing , they want to do things right . And so there's this like subtle difference where where for a one , it's more about being morally good and correct and being right and not wanting to be wrong or be bad or be evil or be corrupted , and with four it's like about finding their deficiency . You're like what's my fatal flaw ? Or like there's gotta be something that's . You know , I'm deficient in something , I'm not good enough . It's more of like a heart thing , because Enneagram four is in the heart triad , so it's more of a like identity , like I'm . There's something there's , there's something about me that's just not good enough and everybody else has it .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , no , I think I relate more with the four . Then I'm very reflective and I don't know if I like necessarily care too much about right and wrong , like it's important , but I do think that it more relates to if it , if it impacts me , I don't know , I don't know , I need help breaking that down .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2So what you're saying is that the Enneagram 1 is more like right and wrong in the world . Enneagram 4 is like did I do right and wrong internally ?
Speaker 1So both 1s and 4s have a voice inside of them . That is extra critical . I've heard people say that for ones they call it an inner critic and for fours they call it an inner condemner .
Speaker 2Oh .
Speaker 1And so yeah , for ones . For ones they want to make sure that they themselves are being appropriate , holding the right standards but they're also very aware of are the people around me doing it right ? Are the systems just ? Are we , you know ? Do we have good rules as a society ? And I think fours . Fours are interesting because I've I've known fours who could be like pretty black and white , but I've also known fours who can be pretty gray . So I think fours are good with holding the complexities of life in a way that feels hard for ones , because ones are more comfortable with just black and white it is what it is . And fours , in my experience I've known them to be able to handle the nuances of life better .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's absolutely more gray than black and white in life for me .
Speaker 1And fours are also going to be . Um , they're in that heart center , so they're going to be more aware of you . Know , how are other people perceiving me , and do they like me ? What do they think about me ?
Speaker 2Um , I think , as I've gotten healthier , do they like me ? What do they think about me ? I think , as I've gotten healthier , I have cared less about that and I've really let go . And you'll even notice in my social media I just like now . I used to not post anything because I was so worried about what people would think of me . When I posted , I was paralyzed , worried about what people would think of me . When I posted , I was paralyzed with fear and it was so stupid . And I just like one , I've realized that nobody really cares about me , so just post anyways . And two nobody cares , so just post anyways .
Speaker 2I was super stuck and like man , what gonna think if I post this ? It's not gonna be good enough , it's not gonna stick to my brand . What is my brand ? I don't know what my brand is . Maybe it's , maybe it's x , y and z . I don't want them to know that .
Speaker 1I don't know , uh so do you feel like it's more about like an identity thing with that ? You know you're hearing about your brand . What do people think of me ? Like does it go back to , to knowing what is your identity , or like cultivating that ?
Speaker 2yeah , I feel like my identity and my brand are huge for me .
Speaker 1It's really important to me that people think positively of me and I've learned to let that go , but that was a very hard battle still is that's not easy , and I don't know if in this life we ever will fully overcome that right like yeah , I deal with that on a daily basis too yeah um , I , I would , uh , just recommend you , you know , this week to look more into four and look more into one , not because I , you know , think maybe you're a one , but with that line , that line is important , right , because if you're a four , you have access to that one and it can be helpful to kind of understand more about what you have access to with that , and I think that fairness can be a big part of that .
Speaker 1So another thing about ones is ones are very detail oriented , care very much about quality and excellence of work , and so when a
Exploring Enneagram Types and Emotions
Speaker 1four is doing really well and healthy and they're in their creative space but they're accessing like I am harnessing my creativity and I want it to be excellent and I want it to be high quality and fours , what actually is hard for fours in their natural state is taking action . Fours are really good with coming up with ideas and have a harder time taking action , but ones are action people . So when a four can access that healthiness of the one , fours are going to take their creativity and actually do something with it and not just sit there in their heads .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , I definitely , definitely . This is good . This is good . I feel like I , oh man , I've never even considered one , uh , but I , I I'm at a loss for words I feel , like . The one to me is like the super perfect , almost like president type .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 2But I would have to look up Enneagram . One description the reformer . Yeah , I mean strong sense of right and wrong , teachers , crusaders and advocates for change . But I am also that this is just like where the enneagram gets so difficult .
Speaker 1But I I think that if I was were to lean more , one going towards seven in growth and four in stress , I think would make sense that'd be a good thing for you to keep uh reading over and listening over and kind of marinate in it , because this enneagram stuff , right it takes . It's a journey to understand ourselves and understand the types , and I never want to rush people to get to an answer , right . So it could be interesting for you to read up more about one and four yeah in this .
Speaker 1Yeah , so I'm , I'm a one I don't maybe you knew that already , but I'm a one and like I have that line to four in stress and so I just feel that so much like I I can so quickly go to the the moodiness and that nobody gets me .
Speaker 1And nobody's doing it the way I want them to and then just isolate . And something I've really been working on this year is like when I feel like that depressive state going uh , coming on , like how can I get community , how can I go be with people instead of retreating into myself , because I just get worse if I just isolate .
Speaker 2Yeah , I wonder did you ever feel like you were an eight ?
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , for a couple years .
Speaker 2Talk to me about that .
Speaker 1Yeah , so I mistyped as an eight for a couple years . It was funny because when I thought I was an eight eight , you know , I I related to things about the eight , like , um , I was pretty assertive , I was very in touch with my anger , like I'm not afraid of anger . Um , I feel like I have always had like really strong opinions , um and so . But then I would be listening to these podcasts and the podcast would be like okay , so eights , vulnerability is really hard for them and they don't like opening up to people .
Speaker 2And I would say huh , nice you know what .
Speaker 1That's not really hard for me , so I guess I'm just like a really good eight , Like check , I mastered vulnerability .
Speaker 1I like open up to my friends , so I guess I'm like doing really good as an eight . But of course that was not true . So that that's one thing that that matters . For Enneagram work is like when you find your number and you find the growth path , because the Enneagram describes these nine unique growth paths . It makes sense and you might get the sense of being like disgusted when you find your number , or ashamed or just so . And I felt that when I finally landed on one .
Speaker 1I had this like I felt disgusted and I felt like grief , because it was like it was like this , this like a sheet was pulled back and it was like , oh , that's me and and it's like all these things about me , like all the blind spots , all these things about me that I never wanted to face and that I never wanted to acknowledge . But like , here they are and I'm reading them and I am so sad to say that that is that definitely describes me yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2I wonder if , when I read back over the the one , if I'll look at it and be disgusted you might , and you might come back to four , but it's interesting to go between those two .
Speaker 1I'll say the other thing for my story is I have a parent who's a one and a parent who's an eight , so I think there's a lot that I just naturally related to with both of those numbers because I was familiar with both of them in my family of origin growing up . I was , you know , and that was a house with a lot of energy . Anger was easy for us , like nobody was afraid of anger in my house with an eight and a one yeah , I don't feel like I've had too much anger .
Speaker 2If you ask my wife , though , if my wife was in the room she'd say oh yeah , you get angry . I think I just get really impatient .
Speaker 1Uh , yeah the anger of the one is more of a irritation or a frustration , because ones want to be good , so ones don't want to say they're angry . But they could say , oh , I got , irritated , I got frustrated .
Speaker 2Is that what I just did ?
Speaker 1I don't know , I guess we'll have to ask your word I think I just , and then that's so funny I think the other um difference between the one and the four is since we're talking about anger . So so the core emotion for one is anger and the body triad , and then for fours and the heart triad , the core emotion is shame . So I guess I wonder which of those you feel you're most you're more familiar with ? Or do you feel like you really are familiar with a lot of the emotions ?
Speaker 2I feel shame all the time . It's almost like this constant cloud over top of me . That is like . It's like my way of trying to improve myself . Oh , you didn't wake up at seven today , you ? You woke up at eight . You suck , shame . You're lazy . Shame , shame , shame , shame , shame . And I do that 20 times
Exploring Enneagram Types in Work
Speaker 2a day . So what does that say about me ? And I'm not depressed , I feel very healthy .
Speaker 1Yeah , it says that one in four seem like the right ones for you to keep looking at right ?
Speaker 2Yeah , it says that one in four seem like the right ones for you to keep looking at right ?
Speaker 1Yeah , totally Notice . If that need to make someone else understand you comes up , or just what are you dealing with ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I'll definitely be looking at that . I already am thinking now . It's like not anger that I feel , it's just frustration , just like I could do that faster , oh man .
Speaker 1You're really making me think . So let's pivot and let's talk about your . You know , your maybe fourness , your maybe oneness , maybe a little bit of eightness . I just want to hear about how , what your theories are , about , how those you know aspects of your motivation affects your work , what you do for your job , if you have thoughts about that . It's funny when I think about , you know , our group of friends in the film department . It was like a lot of four ish energy of like you know again the weirdness , and there was so much creativity , but then there was also maybe like uh , you know , like a three energy of like we want to succeed and like make amazing things that are the best , and like we want to win awards and like make high quality work that's authentic and creative , but at the same time it's like the yeah , it's interesting to think about cultures . You know , I think different cultures and like even families can have these different overlays around different types .
Speaker 2Do you know Lisa Vischer ?
Speaker 1That's Phil Vischer's wife .
Speaker 2Yes , no , I don't know her . How do you know that ?
Speaker 1But anyways , Memory for names . I don't know her . How do you know that ?
Speaker 2but that but anyways , memory for names . I don't know . I know that she is super into the enneagram okay and I could probably get you a connect if you ever wanted something . Someone like her on your podcast yeah , let's freaking do it . That's cool yeah uh , she might also hit my guts . I dated her daughter , I don't know . I haven't talked to her in a while that's funny .
Speaker 1Wow , that's kind of a subtle claim to fame , for you was that in high school .
Speaker 2That's my biggest claim to fame . Yes , you dated Phil Fisher's daughter yeah , it was fun until it wasn't . I was a wrecking ball though . I was terrible in high school . Sorry to all those people . I damaged all of those who you dated before that's for real okay so like let's let's break it down into like each of the four traits or each of the three enneagrams that I kind of relate to yeah , let's do it .
Speaker 2The individualist , the challenger and the reformer that sound good , sounds good , let's do it . I feel like , if we start with the four , how it impacts my daily work is that I really want to be unique and fresh and different and impactful , and I'm really driven by creating something meaningful that really resonates with people and that people care about , which is super helpful when building a brand . But my standards are pretty high because I don't like to put out things that are not unique , fresh , different and impactful .
Speaker 1So in that way , I relate with the four , I like that you use the word meaningful right , because that's a huge thing for fours . They care so deeply about putting out meaningful things right , like it's not just about creating things to make it and get a paycheck and move on . No , it's about , like , adding impact and value to the world .
Speaker 2Yeah , yes , totally . I totally want to add impact and value to the world , which is like so exhausting because it'd be so much easier just to put out crap and just not care , but for some stupid reason I care . But then , going to the challenger , if I were to consider like the eight , it would be what fuels that inner drive and resilience and desire for control , like we were talking about earlier , which are pretty essential ingredients for success and wealth . At the end of the day , I want to be extremely wealthy . That's like a huge goal . I want to be extremely wealthy , have a ton of time to do whatever . I want to be extremely wealthy . That's like a huge goal . I want to be extremely wealthy , have a ton of time to do whatever I want . And then I want to give all my money to all my friends . That's like a huge goal for me . And I feel like the eight sort of drives that .
Speaker 1One thing they say about eights in the work world and the business world is that eights love massive impact , so they want to make big moves . Eights are quick decision makers and they like to figure out what decision is going to make the biggest impact and then move towards that .
Speaker 2Yes , yeah , I definitely do that , and it can be a little dangerous in a business sense , because you're like , well , I should make a big move , because I'm supposed to make a big move , where oftentimes a business is just about making a bunch of little small moves that don't really move the needle too much , and it's just about making sure that you stay on the right path . But then my ADHD comes in and goes well , there's a hundred different paths that you could go . Why don't you take the one that could could have the biggest impact ? And it's just a constant battle of no , you don't need to do anything crazy to stay the path and keep doing what you're doing , and I feel like the eight helps me stay focused yeah , do you feel settled on where you've landed now as far as your current business model and the clients you're serving and what you're doing ?
Speaker 2after no I think that as an entrepreneur , that should always be pivoting until you know you've reached millions of dollars in wealth . But it's kind of like I know that I want to edit , so in that instance , yes , okay , I want to edit .
Speaker 2So in that instance yes , I want to edit . I don't want to go film , I don't want to produce , I don't want to costumes , whatever , I want to edit . So I do feel good about that , whereas in the past , when I started businesses , I was like I want to be the creative director and I want to go be the cinematographer . No , I don't want to do that anymore .
Speaker 2So in that instance , if that's what , you're referring to , then yes , I do feel locked in on that . Okay , and on more of the business side , you're more like I need to keep figuring it out keep pivoting .
Speaker 1Yeah , and the business side it's a constant pivot . But , and also what I've been , you know , seeing of the content you're putting out is very much about , okay , let's analyze , like , what is happening with ai , what is happening with the current trends , and how can we get on board right , like you want to get on board with what's happening and not be left in the dust yeah , well , it's because I know so many people are going to be left in the dust and I talked to so many of my friends that are super agnostic about ai and like more power to them .
Speaker 2They're like it's ruining jobs for artists and we probably shouldn't get into that because I will talk about ai forever , uh , but I am not on that end because it's like the internet , like sure , maybe the internet had some cons , but it's . It also changed the way the world worked fundamentally and , whether you agreed with it or not , it still came like a wrecking ball and evaporated any business that didn't adapt . And that's kind of how I see AI . So I try to talk about it to spark discussion . How do I talk about it ? To get people to talk and comment ? Social media is a whole different ball , because I want to bring valuable content of my thoughts , but I also want to make content that pushes people towards my business and that can be a hard thing to figure out . So maybe a lot of what I'm trying to figure out is more pivoting on a how I market , but the fundamentals of my business stay sort of the same .
Speaker 1That makes sense .
Speaker 2That went way off track .
Speaker 1Well , I feel like that's a better place to be than where you were five years ago , trying 80 different businesses and not feeling like that was the right move for you , yet okay , so uh you've talked about four , eight . Now let's talk about one . How do you see the Enneagram one characteristics impacting your work .
Speaker 2so for the , for the one , I feel like it's like this commitment to extremely high standards , to the highest
Perfectionism and Personal Growth in Entrepreneurship
Speaker 2standards I can have , and pushing myself and others to achieve those high standards , to the highest standards I can have , and pushing myself and others to achieve those high standards . I have editors underneath me and I'm constantly trying to push them to be the best version of themselves and in their edits , and it's really hard to do that to people that just want a paycheck .
Speaker 1You sound like you demand excellence . You demand excellence of yourself , and you also want to demand excellence of whoever works for you .
Speaker 2Totally yeah . And most people don't care . And you'll find that in entrepreneurship is that a lot of the people that you bring on just like don't care . They just want to do the job and get paid and then do the next job and get paid and do it satisfactory . So , finding those people that are like no , I want to do excellent work because I believe in your mission and values , those are the people that you keep , but you have to learn how to communicate those mission , vision and values to your employees . Entrepreneurship is a constant game and I love it . So the number one is like a commitment to high standards and then also like a focus on improvement , like always getting better , refining my skills and strategies . Just like a 1% . How do I move 1% better today , rather than trying to wake up at 5am , take a cold shower in the morning , work out every day , go to bed , bed early how do I wake up 20 minutes early ? And that's it . Just those incremental improvements .
Speaker 1small steps , small steps that are actually sustainable right yes yeah , there's another nickname for the one we've said that it's the reformer . But some people also call type one the improver , and I love that because , as a one , I'm always looking , I want to improve myself , I want to improve all the time , my environment , my home , I want to . I have to restrain myself from saying , oh , I want to improve the people around me , because that can come out , as you know , criticism or overstepping boundaries .
Speaker 2I totally feel that I want to improve everyone around me and you can see how all the time , and I could totally see how it's like if you just did this and this and every time my wife is like stop , just like let me live my life , and it can be a really hard for us and for friendships that I have , and I've learned to just not talk to people about that stuff anymore because most people don't care well , yeah , a lot of people are just like oh , I feel like I'm fine as is yeah , yes , and I'm like I .
Speaker 2I know for a fact there are four things that you could have improved on in this conversation alone are you ?
Speaker 1do you have ways that this podcast could have been better ?
Speaker 2uh , my computer not 100 computer not dying , your camera not being fantastic . If you want to go to youtube , you got to get better lighting . You got it , you know yeah totally , and I do that in people's edits as well , and you know what I ?
Speaker 1this is something that I actually had to actively fight against because this podcast like if I , if I went with my natural tendencies , this podcast never would have started , because I don't have good enough equipment yet , I don't have all the setup that I want , but I had to just start and I I eventually I'm gonna get better gear and whatever . But I knew yeah , I knew that I would drag my feet and procrastinate until I felt like it was good enough .
Speaker 2I'm paralyzed by not being perfect , so I don't present hardly anything . I just like sit in this . This is a really good idea , but it needs this one more thing , and then it needs this one more thing , and then there's another good idea , so I'm going to actually go with that one instead . And then I never finished the first idea .
Speaker 1But the crazy thing is , for somebody like you who's so hyper-focused on quality and excellence , you know your B work and your C work is better than those people who just half-ass it and don't care that much , you know . So it's like what's ? How important is it really to get that two percent , that last two percent better like , how much does that matter ?
Speaker 2yeah , and at what point ? When can you know that ? It's just , you just got to present it to the world because on the one end , my , my b-level stuff is somebody else's a-level stuff . But if I were to , if I were to release just everything , I would be releasing other people's c-level stuff , like if I were to just make a social media video and I didn't put in any effort . Yeah , my d-level stuff to me would equate to d-level stuff for other people if they posted it on okay , that's social media , that's fair , but then again I would never release a d-level thing , right cringe .
Speaker 1Why would I put something bad out ?
Speaker 1how could I put out something bad , that's terrible , that's going to be there forever I am obsessed with hearing you talk about all those three numbers and how they can all relate , right . So I think you got a lot of the characteristics of of the eight and the one and the four , but this is the important part , right ? And this is how we'll wrap it up , and this is for anybody who you know is not sure of their number is you got to take time with it and I think finding your Enneagram type is it ? It's a slow process . It can be some people know right away , um , but a lot of people don't . And it's because it goes so deep and it goes to your motivations . And Max is a person who I love talking to you , max , because you know yourself really well .
Speaker 1You've done a lot of reflection , you have a lot of self-awareness right and that helps as far as like analyzing your own motivations . Yeah , so , and if I'm a one , then let me think about my motivations , let me analyze if I have the inner critic happening and you know all the things about a one . And then maybe the next week you're like okay , I'm going to try on eight for a week . I'm going to read up about the eight motivations and see how I relate to them and I'm going to notice where am I seeing a need for , like , power and control , or where am I seeing a need to mask my own vulnerabilities ? And then you do the same thing with the four . I think you just see like which one fits more .
Speaker 2I love that I'm totally down to try on each one of these for like a week . Cool , I've never thought about that .
Speaker 1Being like that intentional with it . Yeah , and again , it's a tool right . So if it helps you , it helps you . If it doesn't't , that's okay too this has been great thanks , this has been really fun .
Speaker 2It was good to catch up with you yes , a podcast is a good way to do that and it makes the subject feel important a good way to do that and it makes the subject feel important .
Speaker 1You're saying you feel important , oh yeah , I love talking to myself max , if the people want to know more about you and what you do , where can they find your work ?
Speaker 2easy , editsco . Check out my patreon if you want to go and support me . It's been a pleasure . I look forward to the next one . I'll study up on the Enneagram .
Speaker 1That's awesome . I'd love to do a recap in a couple months .
Speaker 2Great Look at you Killing it .
Speaker 1Thanks , Max .
Speaker 2Talk to you soon . See you , moneybags .
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