Towards Eden, an Enneagram Podcast

#23 - Using the Enneagram as an HR tool with Blake Boardman (6w5)

• Elyse Regier

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Blake Boardman is a Human Resources Trainer at a care company serving intellectually and physically disabled adults. He integrates the Enneagram into his role at work, training effective communication techniques, Blake teaches his staff how the Enneagram can help their team communicate more effectively to ensure better lives for their individuals.  Blake lives in Northwest Indiana with his family. 

Blake gives us a crash course on Enneagram 6s! He talks all about what it’s like to be hypervigilant, and why he always arrives half an hour early to every event.  Also, a 5-6 couple apparently make a great beekeeping team! 

⚡ HIGHLIGHTS FROM THIS EPISODE ⚡

  • All about Enneagram 6s
  • Blake tells how he uses the Enneagram in his onboarding process at work
  • How Blake gets along with different Enneagram types at work
  • How 6s show that they truly deeply care about their people


📚 RESOURCES FROM THIS EPISODE 📚 

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For resource recommendations, click here.

The Road Back to You by Ian Cron- start here to find your type

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Speaker 1:

Welcome back, welcome back. It feels so awkward to start Today. I'm hanging out with my friend, blake Boardman, enneagram Type 6. So excited to talk all about 6s today. Blake, please introduce yourself. What do the people know about you?

Speaker 2:

Well, I live in La Porte, grew up here my entire life, so lifelong citizen of the city, I do a lot of different things on the side other than work. I am a beekeeper. I officiate weddings as well. I do just all tons of different things. I have my family, five different kids. I'm engaged. Hopefully getting married this year is the plan. We'll see if that's that's doable. I work at a company where we assist intellectually and physically disabled adults assist intellectually and physically disabled adults. I train everyone at the company to do that, down from the janitor all the way up to the vice president of the company.

Speaker 1:

So you're training the staff at the company, excuse me, you're training the staff at the company to work with the adults.

Speaker 2:

Yep To work with our with the intellectually and physically disabled adults, teaching them how to go into the homes and, you know, teach them life skills. Go grocery shopping, help them with finances and everything that has to do with life.

Speaker 1:

Okay, pausing, just like I get so nervous about that. Okay, sweet, that was a great introduction. Beekeeping, I love it.

Speaker 2:

We've been doing that for two years now.

Speaker 1:

You guys are selling honey locally, right?

Speaker 2:

We just were able to like. We got our first batch this year. It was like 26 pounds of honey and we sold that so quick and all the money just goes right back into the bees.

Speaker 1:

Are the bees expensive?

Speaker 2:

he just goes right back into the bees. Are the bees expensive? Yes, they're extremely expensive. Several thousand dollars to get two hives started and then just all the equipment that goes along with it, and having to buy sugar year round to feed them and supplement them, and all the I mean just tons of different equipment is always coming up, and but we have an amazing local beekeeper that is absolutely has given us a lot of guidance this year. Without him I would not have been able to harvest the honey that we had this year, so he has been a godsend for sure.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, mr Local beekeeper. Let's talk about your enneagram story. So, uh, just a quick story about, um, how I know blake is that he sits in the row right in front of me at church. So I look at the back of blake during church a lot. No, I mean, I don't't you know I'm not staring, but you know what I mean. And we did an Enneagram class. Our church did an Enneagram class last year. So that's how we really started connecting a lot and quickly figured out that Blake is as much an Enneagram fanatic as all of us who listen to this podcast. So it's been fun to talk all about how he uses the Enneagram at work. But today we're going to start with you personally. How did you first encounter the Enneagram? How did you figure out your type? Tell me everything.

Speaker 2:

So I was first introduced to the idea of it when my fiancee Rachelle was like hey, there's a class at church and I was like, yeah, I don't really want to do that.

Speaker 1:

And this was the first class at church, right, yeah?

Speaker 2:

No, I think it was the second one that church held.

Speaker 1:

Was it the one that I was at?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was the one that you were at. It was the first one that I think you did at church, because Becky did that first one.

Speaker 1:

OK, so this was like maybe a year and a half ago.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I ended up going to the class and I was like you know, I'm going to try to be open minded about this business Like, and I was immediately interested. I was like this is really, really cool stuff for sure, and I kind of just I read through all the different types and I was. I was like I'm a six, Absolutely Hundred percent. I'm a six Just from reading through the types.

Speaker 2:

Just from reading through the types, I was like absolutely, I'm a six, Absolutely Hundred percent I'm a six. Just from reading through the types, just from reading through the types, I was like absolutely, I'm a six. That is, that is crazy. It feels weird, that it feels like somebody has a camera in my life and then I ended up taking like two different tests just to be like let's see Right, both were like you are absolutely a six, hundred percent, both were like you are absolutely a six, a hundred percent of six, no doubt, no doubt.

Speaker 2:

Six wing five, absolutely, and it just makes so much sense. And then, once I figured that out you know I read some material, looked up online, talked with you quite a bit about some things I decided, man, this is a really useful thing to use, not in my personal life but also at work. And so then I started reading more about it to understand more about it for me and my family and how to use it. Because I think if you use it, if you use something in your personal life, you're more likely to use it at work and understand it, because you're not going to use something at work if you're not comfortable with it, especially in the field we're in and understand it, because you're not going to use something at work if you're not comfortable with it, especially in the field we're in. So I just really kind of started trying to understand it and telling everyone in my family I need you to take this test my stepfather, my mother, our kids and it was kind of strange because I could guess their types pretty well before they even took it.

Speaker 2:

I knew my stepfather was a nine, I knew my mother was a two. It was just so very, very obvious to me. I knew one of my kids was a seven. It was just he's a seven. He is absolutely a seven. But it has helped me so much because, you know, with my son who's a seven, I know that he really can't miss out on stuff like it's. It's just it. It hits him to the core and being a 12 year old middle schooler, it just really ramps that up.

Speaker 2:

So, I have to do my best to make sure that, as a dad, he doesn't miss out on things and he can do things, because it just causes him so much anxiety when he can't. And I've just done that with much anxiety when he can't. And I've just done that with all my personal relationships with people and I find that things are so much better and it's just things are so much easier. I think the Enneagram helps me give more grace to people and helps me understand okay, this is why you're doing the thing you're doing, rather than why are you doing that thing? That's wrong. So I very, very much appreciate it in that sense, for sure.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. I read a quote this week. It's from the book the Path Between Us by Suzanne Stabile, but she was talking about how the Enneagram is a translation tool and every relationship needs some degree of translation, because we're all different and with the Enneagram it's like translating. Why is that person doing that? So we can understand, and I love how you're already saying, like, for example, with your son, you're it's keeping you from judging a way that he's reacting and because you understand where he's coming from with that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it's just. You know, even with my relationship with my fiance, like we were able to understand each other on a different level, you know I was like, OK, I understand why. You know, when she thinks she's right, she knows she's right, and when I think I'm right, I know I'm right. You know I have that wing five, she is a five. So we're both like we. We have looked through this thoroughly and we both know that we are correct. Someone has to be wrong, but it's not me, right?

Speaker 1:

You've already done the research. We've already. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2:

So like. But it's helped out with that and it's also helped out with, you know, the, you know partner and then mother dynamic right there. How it can. It can be rough sometimes, you know, I think, in any any relationship and for them to each understand, especially my mother understanding that my fiance is a five and that she's not just zoning out, that she's just out of energy for that activity and she'll power back up in a bit, Right, so it's not just helped me, it's helped me, it's helped the other people in in my life and helped me explain to these people why other people are doing this stuff. So, uh, that's how I use it at work too. I'm just trying to explain to people. Hey, uh, give people a little bit of grace and understand how they function. It's different than you, but it's, it's still good, it's okay.

Speaker 1:

Oh good, we're going to um circle back a little bit later and talk more about your workplace specifically, but I had a couple other questions about the, the, the discovering that you're a six. What are a couple of things that you remember reading that that told you right away oh yeah, that's totally me no-transcript.

Speaker 2:

That was the epiphany for me about being a six, because I absolutely plan everything. When we go to Chicago or we go on a vacation, people look to me and they're like, hey, do you have the thing? Yes, I have the thing.

Speaker 1:

Of course I have the thing.

Speaker 2:

And if I don't have the thing, I get really nervous about it. Like I just get this like pit in my stomach. Somebody asked me the other day. They're like hey, do you have this phone charger? I'm like, yeah, sure I do, and I could not find it. I found it, but that 10 seconds of not knowing where it was at was like oh my gosh, I don't know what to do. Right, I'm not only do I have things, but now there's an expectation that I have things.

Speaker 1:

So is it, does it feel like that's become your role? Is the prepared one?

Speaker 2:

I think so Definitely. Like when we go on vacation, for example, somebody always forgets something you know, like somebody clean your ears or whatever, like those things that you just don't ever think about and I'm like, oh yep, I got them. So it's kind of like the prepared one, like that saves the day, like we went over. We went to Chicago a year ago and we went to a convention with two preteens and I knew that I needed to bring probably six battery backups. I used a significant portion of those battery backups that day and it just makes me feel good to be prepared. It makes me feel at peace and at ease. So that's really how I knew I was a six. Was that just needing to be prepared? And then discovering what wing I was? I mean, when I took the test it said I was a wing five. But those tests they can only do so much. Really, it's reading about it and truly understanding it and like vibing with that number or that wing, and I absolutely with that over-preparing.

Speaker 2:

I love to research things and know things. One of my friends says it's my superpower to hyper-fixate on something and just know everything about a thing within a couple of days. We were playing a tabletop game years ago and I went into it not knowing anything, you know, like a Dungeons and Dragons style tabletop thing, you know, with all the thousands of rules. I didn't really know anything and the next week coming in I knew more than the guy running the game before the?

Speaker 1:

or wait, was it after your first one, before the second one? You just went home and researched the heck out of it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, between that week, between like a Thursday and a Thursday, I just spent a massive amount of time reading, because reading and researching also helps me be prepared for the thing. And then I feel more at ease and so I went into it and it's. I just knew all the stuff and I didn't know that I knew more than him at that time and I think it came. I think it might have come off as a little bit overbearing, uh, to him because he was just like he didn't say anything, but you could tell by the body language that he was like how dare you know more than I? But it's just how I get. I get through life.

Speaker 2:

I have to be able to research stuff, even with our bees, our beekeeping, for example. I probably watched a thousand hours of videos on all the things that you need to do to carry to care for bees before we even got into it. You need to do to carry to care for bees before we even got into it. Um, so just like getting into it. And people are like every time you get into something, you seem like you're already a master of the thing. I'm like I'm not a master, I just know a lot of stuff because I need to be prepared and I I love to research everything. Uh, it's just, that is definitely absolutely 100 who, I am for sure.

Speaker 1:

So Enneagram Sixes they have the need to be prepared, and then they also really desire certainty in their world. They want to be certain of relationships. They want to have security in relationships. They want to have security in, like, the systems that they're a part of or the groups that they're a part of. Um, and then six is also safety is is a feature, right. So sixes care about being safe and secure and they care about other safety as well, which we hear through your magic bag, which has all the things that you or anybody could need right and then the.

Speaker 1:

A couple of the fears of sixes are abandonment is a big fear for sixes, being um, left without support and and when you think about it, like you want, you want to be secure and certain in the world and kind of the opposite of that being without support would be being abandoned or left without, uh, your, your support system, um. So those are a couple of the key features of sixes and we're already hearing a lot of those come out when you talk about your life.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I in you know, in previous relationships when those ended it was it hit me really hard, like way harder than it should have, and reflecting on that, those abandonment things and and needing security and systems and support and guidance. It's kind of like when that, just when I'm not prepared to deal with that, and then all of a sudden it comes out of nowhere, right, and then all of a sudden that support system that I built up is now gone. I've been hit with something and I don't have any guidance, I don't have any support, I don't have any systems and I'm also not prepared to deal with this. So I just kind of have like a bull shutdown and I had my, my brain and my body and my life just has to kind of reboot from that situation. So that was another. It helped me understand that I'm not, that I'm not broken, that I'm, that I'm just a six. I'm just a six and and you know that sixes can be quirky and and it's okay yeah, good, yeah, you're not broken.

Speaker 1:

You're, you're not. You don't react like everybody else, but there's still maybe approximately one ninth of people who are like you. Yeah, yeah, we had. I had a crystal on this show last year. She's a six and she talked about how, if a friend or a family member was just expressing a problem they had to her, she would wake up in the middle of the night and then just start researching that problem or researching ways to fix it or ways to solve it. So then, by the time the next day rolls around, she's like hey, I actually figure this out for you. Like here's how you can solve that problem. I spent three hours in the middle of the night researching it.

Speaker 2:

And that's why I think that wing five goes so well with six, because that researching aspect and and needing uh goes so well. I've caught myself doing the same thing. Um, I'll, I'll wake up at two o'clock in the morning, um, and then all of a sudden, a thought will pop in my mind and I will go down a rabbit hole for two or three hours, or until noon the next day, or the same day, uh, until I figure out what I need to figure out. Um, because I, my brain, won't stop and I can't stop until until I know the thing, because if I don't know the thing, then that means I'm not prepared for what's to come and I have this massive amount of anxiety. I have to. I have to know for sure.

Speaker 2:

So when somebody presents me with a problem like that, I need to fix it, like I need to figure out what the solution is. And I've realized one of the things I'm trying in 2025 is to not do that Recognizing. When somebody comes to me with a problem. Another way to to start to like to prepare myself for that is to say what do you need from me?

Speaker 1:

Oh, yeah, right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, do you? Do you want me to come up with a solution? Do you want me to validate your feelings? Um, do you want me to just sit here and listen, like, what do you need from this? Um, and I think that's so important because, as a six and that six wing five I really need to be able to fix problems. Hence my, my, like, my bag of holding. I like to fix problems, because fixing problems makes me feel prepared.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it's also your way of taking care of your people, right?

Speaker 2:

care of your people, right, absolutely, absolutely Like. I feel like I have let someone down. If I'm not, if I don't have the thing and it's, there's no expectation. I mean, there's really nobody ever set this expectation on me that Blake must be prepared for everything. But I set that expectation on myself that I need to be prepared for everything, and I guess a strange thing that comes from that too is if I'm prepared for it and then somebody else is prepared for it. I don't like that, because I am supposed to be the one that is prepared for this thing, and I appreciate that you're prepared, but I am now going to be more prepared.

Speaker 1:

This is my role not yours.

Speaker 2:

This is what I do, right, this is what I do.

Speaker 1:

Do you have any other sixes close to you?

Speaker 2:

I don't have any sixes friends and family. I have sixes at work, though, for sure, but there's nobody that I know personally like day to day. That is a six. I find that there doesn't seem to be a lot of us in the world At least, I'm not connected with a lot of sixes for sure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's interesting. Okay, I have one more question on my notes, specifically about sixness. So okay, another thing about sixes is you are especially attuned probably more than most of the rest of us especially attuned to danger, to threats, to what could go wrong. What is that like inside your head?

Speaker 2:

So when you asked that question, I immediately thought of like one of my side hustles of officiating weddings I need to be able to know what's going to go wrong, what kind of unexpected things may happen, what dangers may be lurking around the corner, right, so when, say, I'm showing up that day for the wedding, I'm going to show up probably two hours early to do weird things like walk around the building, yes, and, and I'm often asked like what are you doing, like who are you? And I found out it really helps if I that aspect with officiating those weddings, that it helps. It helps the couples once, once they get there, I have everything already set, I already know there. I'm like it's covered and and that puts that puts them their mind at ease so they can focus on their special day, puts them their mind at ease so they can focus on their special day.

Speaker 2:

I specifically remember one time I went down to Lafayette to officiate a wedding and I showed up early, as I always do, and walking around figuring out what problems might show up. And I went to go adjust the candles because they weren't perfect up at the altar and one of them was broken, one of the candles that you know you lift up to light that the middle candle and somebody had broke it and then just put it back on there and pretended everything was OK. So, being prepared, I already had a lighter on me, so I took that lighter lighter on you, a lighter on me. I carried a bag at that time too and I just melted the candle back together and smoothed it all out and made it look fine and everything, and nobody knew that anything went wrong. Everything was, everything was okay. But you know, that is like a core memory for me because that just solidified the idea that I need to show up early to things to be able to find out where the exits are, to be able to find out what's going on, what are my resources around. Even I still I have to do that. Even with my weekly things that I do, like going to church, for example, I need to be at church 15 minutes early. I would prefer 30 minutes, but we've compromised to 15. And if I don't do that, I just feel really, really underprepared. Even at a place that I've already been a million different times. I need to know who's at church that day. I need to know who's there and who isn't there, like what are the expectations? What do I need to do? How does the dynamic change Like? My brain is just constantly going Like I don't know if it's the same for other sixes, but I'm just constantly assessing every single minute change that happens With everything in my life.

Speaker 2:

And you know, I even remember in the Enneagram class that I attended and you're like, ok, we're going to split up. I knew at some point we were going to split up in groups, right attended. And you're like, okay, we're going to split up. I knew at some point we were going to split up in groups, right. So I immediately looked around the room and I'm like, okay, who's here? Okay, who knows who? Where's everybody sitting, how many people are here and how are these groups going to split up and where are people going to go? And in my brain I like, did this like quick? Okay, these are all the different ways everybody can split up and sit places. Because I don't know why I needed to know that, but I needed to know that and until I knew it, I couldn't stop thinking about it, did that affect what group you went to?

Speaker 2:

No, because I was prepared to go to any group. I already knew how I was going to be and what I was going to talk about, according to what group I was in. Like I used to be a teacher. So if I would have been in the group in front of me with the teachers, I would have definitely, like, leaned more into that, right, but I was in another group and so you know, it's just, I have to be prepared, I have to know what we're going to talk about.

Speaker 2:

And it seems so weird to talk about it because it's like man, that seems like crazy. But and most and a lot of people are like, and that would that would make me so anxious, like how do you do that? All the time, if I don't do it, I get anxious. Right, and that anxiety you know everyone's anxiety usually turns to anger, right, and you get upset. You know when you're running late, for example, right, you're, you're anxious about running late and then all of a sudden you're upset that you're running late. So I don't want to be upset about things. So in order to not be upset, I have to not be anxious. In order to not be anxious, I have to know every possibility of everything that's going to happen with everyone around me at all times.

Speaker 1:

What is it like for you when?

Speaker 2:

you walk into an event right exactly at the minute that it starts. It's very, very difficult, right. I have to sit down, like I'm going to sit down immediately, because I wasn't able to figure out where I was going to sit and how that, how that makes everything else work essentially, right. So I have to. Usually what I'll do is I'll find a seat in the back of a place. You know, that way people can't, I guess, watch me. They can't watch me looking around and figuring everything out and watching people and figuring stuff out.

Speaker 2:

And again church. Another example like we have a few people who are wheelchaired that go there, and I remember seeing one day we have like one spot and then two people showed up and like that's all I could focus on, right? So I made sure the next Sunday that we had two spots open. Like I talk, I'm like we got to have two spots open this last Sunday. I noticed we had two people with wheelchairs, but one of them was gone. So I'm like, okay, well, next Sunday we might have three. So now I got to talk to somebody to make sure that we have three, right, it's just that's. I can't do that and, like I said, I feel like I'm letting somebody down if I don't and I do my best to not show up right when things are starting it just I can't function. I would rather not show up at all than show up on time, which sounds weird, but I can't. I can't truly function and be who I am without being there early to just figure everything out.

Speaker 1:

I think this, this idea of the expectation that you're putting on yourself, is really interesting, right, because, like you said, nobody is asked. I mean, by now they might, just because they know that you fit that role, but it's like nobody at church is asking you. Hey, we need you specifically to watch out and see how many people are in wheelchairs, so we know how many chairs, right, but you take that on and I think we can kind of apply that to other numbers too, right, like there's probably some Enneagram twos and they put the expectation on themselves. Like I need to. I need to always be attuned to other people's emotions and help take care of other people. I need to meet other people's needs and if I don't meet other people's needs, I'm letting them down. Are they really?

Speaker 1:

No, but that's the self-expectation and like for me it would be like if I it feels like I'm letting other people down if I make mistakes or, you know, I don't do something completely correct, do other people expect that of me? No, but there's just this thing. I think with every Enneagram type we can look at a self-expectation, that and it can be helpful to learn these types and notice oh, like I don't have to be doing this thing 100 of the time, because everybody's actually not expecting that of me. Yeah, but I think they are. But this is a like okay when they say but I think they are. But this is a like okay when they say in the Enneagram world Enneagram, it's not putting you in a box.

Speaker 1:

It helps you see the box you're living in and to get out of the box you're in. And I think this is a good example of that, because you're aware of what you do right, which which means that you could be able to not do that if you truly didn't want to right, because you could see your own not do that if you truly didn't want to Right, because you could see your own patterns of behavior and you're able to pivot when you need to. But before we know about the Enneagram, it's kind of like oh, I'm just like, this is how I am and this is how it has to be, and I have to do it this way, and everybody else is thinking about the world this way too everybody else is thinking about the world this way too.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that self, that realization of why I do what I do. It's. It's kind of like people are always like it doesn't? That thing, whatever you have in life, doesn't need a label. The label is not important, just knowing that you do the things enough. And I don't think that's the case. I think that having that label is validating, sometimes, especially with the Enneagram, like it validates definitely.

Speaker 2:

Ok, I'm not strange. I'm not weird, I'm not broken, I'm not wrong. I'm just me. And this is how I have to function in the world. And, like you said, like it also helps me understand.

Speaker 2:

Ok, when do I need to pull back from that in certain situations? When do I need to say, okay, I know that I'm interacting with this person. That's a different number and my sixness is going to be too much for this person, so I need to pull back from that situation. Um, like I love to be, like I said, I love to be prepared, I love to think about things, I love to research things. I will not move on something until I know everything about it, or at least I think I do.

Speaker 2:

And I have a two in my life who happens to be my mother and she wants to help, like right now, right. So, being my mother, she usually knows when something's wrong and I'm like, yep, something's wrong and she's like, well, I want to help, I'm like I don't need help and that just kills a two, right. So I have had to learn with my six. You know I've told her, okay, remember, I'm a six, I need to think about this for a minute and you're a two and you want to help me. So let's figure out a middle ground here. Let me think about it and know that as soon as I'm done thinking about it, if I need help, you'll be the first person I come to. Right, and I think that that has helped significantly understanding how I function in the world and then how my number functions with those other numbers.

Speaker 1:

That's really good. One of my sisters is a two and sometimes I call her. If I literally need a pep talk, Like I think I'm terrible and doing it wrong and everybody's going to reject this idea I have, Can you give me a pep talk and she can turn it on just like that?

Speaker 2:

I have a two like that in my life. That definitely makes me had a rough day the other day and I went to this too and I was just telling him like man, this is, I'm a little bit upset about something right now, and just through conversation and talk and I was like I don't feel as upset now, Like I can go deal with this with a rational mind. Uh, I think having a two around is is very helpful.

Speaker 1:

So Okay, let's talk more about your workplace. So, um, am I correct in thinking that you are the one who brought the Enneagram to your workplace?

Speaker 2:

I am Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Let's hear about that. So, in recognizing how much the Enneagram helped me in my personal life, I wanted to bring it to where I work, because one of the main chief complaints that a lot of our employees have is communication. They think it's a lack of communication or no communication or miscommunication, and I was like man. The Enneagram can help with this because I've been on both sides. I've been essentially like the boots on the ground and now I'm in the office and I know the office folks are trying to communicate with the boots on the ground and the boots on the ground are communicating back, but something is literally getting lost in translation. And that's when I thought that, when I thought that thought I was like the Enneagram can help with this translation and I think that this I think we have a deficit somewhere and I the only way to figure out where that deficit is is to start to map everybody in the company.

Speaker 1:

How many people in your?

Speaker 2:

company. We have a. I want to say we're we're between three and 400 at any given day and we're spread across two different counties. Okay, so, like I said, I'm the trainer there and part of our we have a communication training. So I was like I'm going to slip the Enneagram in here, like this is perfect, right. Uh, so I, you know, I started setting it up. I didn't really know what it was going to look like. When I was originally setting it up it was just kind of like I'm just going to start throwing information on some slides and eventually it's going to, it's going to form into something.

Speaker 2:

So what we, what we usually go over is I give them a brief introduction what the Enneagram is kind of, where it's come from.

Speaker 2:

That it's not, you know, it's pretty old business, like it's not some new like Facebook test on trying to figure out what your Hogwarts house is or something you know. Let them know that, like this isn't just some crazy nonsense, right. I give them a brief overview of those motivations and the desires of each type and then, to kind of bring it home, because it's such a quick overview, I give them a really good example of that type. That way they can kind of, they can feel it, they can visualize it, they can be like oh, that makes sense, because before that it's just, it's very abstract, since it's all new information and we go through each type doing that, and then I show them where to take a test, where to get some more information. I ask them to please, please, please, if they take the test, to screenshot those results and let me know we can talk about it. Or if they're, you know, have any questions let's talk about it, let's figure it out.

Speaker 1:

Right, you're kind of giving them the initial packed full initial training so that so everybody kind of has a baseline.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, trying to get them hooked. Pretty much Right. Get them hooked because I'm not. I'm not making anybody that's already hired there take this test like it's their option. So I have to do a really good job at making them want to do it. And I've noticed over time the numbers starting to go up. Like when I first started, people were like OK, and then I found like handouts in the trash. Right now I joke and I tell them like if you throw it away, just throw it away in another garbage can. So I don't feel sad about it.

Speaker 2:

So I can't see it Right, but the last class that I had like I usually don't even have them take the test in class and class went over half an hour because everybody wanted to take the test and then talk about it. But yeah, it's just. It's a really cool way to see on week one to be able to connect with people without knowing who somebody is. You know, it gives me a small insight into how to effectively work with a new hire and I think we're getting a better quality person coming out of training that way, because they feel like they can connect better with somebody in the company initially on week one, whereas they weren't able to do that before.

Speaker 1:

So the one issue that was coming up for a lot of people in the company was communication right. So how are ways that you've seen this implementation of the Enneagram meet some of the fix, some of those communication problems?

Speaker 2:

Well, it was actually really really neat to see just a couple of weeks ago when I had a higher up at our company. They took this test and they took it right in the middle of class and they told me what their number was. Not surprisingly, an eight, because you know they're they're high up in the company and the big boss yeah, I imagine a lot of the big bosses are eights probably. But I said this really makes sense. And she's like man, I really come off.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes people say I can be really mean and really overbearing. And I said that makes sense. Right, this makes sense. I said you got to really understand as an eight, you know you're an eight and you, you need to read about that and you need to understand how those other numbers are going to perceive you, perceive you. And then one of her, one of her subordinates, was in there and I don't remember what number they were, but we just started to talk about that relationship, right, and then I brought something up, that relationship between an eight and this other number, and they were just like, oh my gosh, that's us Right, that's that's crazy. And you know we talk about with that communication. I give them a lot of examples of how I function, and then they start to tell me how they're going to function. Um, our facility coordinator uh, she's a five, right? So if I ask this, like it's her job to know stuff, right?

Speaker 2:

It's her job to run the facility. Perfect job for a five. But if there's a question that I know that she doesn't know, I send it in an email rather than ask her directly, cause I know if I ask her directly it's going to cause a lot of anxiety, whereas if I send her an email she can answer it in her time. I'm going to get an answer back. I don't have to double check it because I know it's right. So I give them those examples and throughout that, you know, when I give people those examples, they really start to understand how it works in the company.

Speaker 2:

And then I have people coming back to me saying, oh, I found out that this person was a six or a five or a two, and I always thought that they did this for this reason and I thought they were an idiot. And no, they're not, they're just they do it for this reason. My perception was wrong, um, and I think that that's really helpful, especially in a workplace, because so many people are like that person does it wrong or I do it right, or that person's an idiot or that person's lazy. And I explained that five isn't lazy, that five sitting there thinking about it, and you need that five to be thinking about that business right. That five isn't a doer, that five is a thinker. You know, if you're a doer, if you're that one, that five is going to come to you and you're going to get it done Right.

Speaker 2:

And I explained to people you need, we need people of all types and in all these triads to be able to work together. We need the thinkers, we need the doers and then we need people to think about how this is going to affect us emotionally and socially within the company, right, and they just really connect with it. And now that I'm getting more people I probably got about 50 people mapped Right. And now that I'm doing that, just a couple of weeks ago the word really started to spread around. Enough people know now that true, real conversations are happening. So I'm really excited to see what's going to happen in the next coming weeks with that situation for sure.

Speaker 1:

Have you had pretty good buy-in from the higher-ups of your company For?

Speaker 2:

sure have you had pretty good buy in from the higher ups of your company. I've started to. So we have one of our kind of above the directors of the company, like below the vice president, above the director. So it's an officer. They took the test and it was really interesting because that started to give me some insight on me and how I deal with this specific number.

Speaker 2:

So I find, as a six, I don't jive well with a lot of twos and there was people at the company where I was like I don't really particularly like you too much. I didn't say that, but I thought I'm like I don't like this person, and it ended up a lot of these people were twos. So, communication wise, that's helped me understand. Okay, what kind of issues am I? Why am I having an issue with this specific kind of two? Um, and just learning more about, okay, what kind of two are they? Are they an average to a healthy and unhealthy, to? What's going on with that? What are the traits that Eric's off putting to me? And I haven't quite figured it out yet, but I'm, I'm, I'm going into that. But there's twos there. That one of the twos that our companies was one of my best friends, right. So I don't know what it is. I don't know why I jive really well with some twos, but most twos I don't. So it's given me some insight, which I think is really really neat. But it's nice to see those higher ups buying in to things, because once they buy into it they've got that ability to say, hey, I want you to take this test Right, and then it just kind of starts to go down from there and I I really express in training how important it is for the higher ups to take this, because they need to know what they're.

Speaker 2:

I kind of I call it their style in life. What's your style? How do you? How do you move through life? And you need to know how you move through life because that helps you understand, as a supervisor, how you're perceived. And then you need to know your subordinates, numbers. That way you know how your number is going to be working with them and also you can play to people's strengths. Yes, right, I'm going to go. I'm going to go to that too. I'm going to go to that one wing too, for somebody to do it right, but also somebody that I know is going to help everybody else in this classroom or in this, in this house, do things, um, you know, no, play to those strengths rather than forcing people to do things that are their weaknesses. Uh, and I think that that's going to help massively with communication, for sure.

Speaker 1:

Uh, yeah, I like that you can. You can fit people into their thing, like tasks and projects that fit their strengths and it's.

Speaker 2:

It's interesting to see too that some people are already in. They're already, they're in the thing that they should be doing for their number, like our facility coordinator, makes total sense for a five and I. I had to question myself at one point and be like why, why am I in human resources? That's weird, like when you're in kindergarten you don't say, hey, I want to be in human resources. When I grow up, exactly Like nobody says that. But I'm like why? Why do I like HR so much? Why do I like training? It's because I like guidance, I like systems, I like support, I like those rule sets. I find a lot of comfort in it and I can help other people through that guidance. Through being an HR I can. I'd love to guide people and to provide that knowledge to people. So I'm like totally makes sense why a six is an HR.

Speaker 1:

Now, yeah, and it's like you as a six, you crave being supported and feeling supported, but you also love to give that to other people. So, as a, as a, what's your role called?

Speaker 2:

I'm a human resources trainer.

Speaker 1:

OK, so, yeah, so as a human resources trainer, you're giving support you all you're. It sounds like one of your priorities is making people feel supported. I mean even the fact that you're finding helpful tools to bring into training, like it sounds to me like you're doing that because you want the employees to feel supported and to be able to do their job as well as they can. We've just taken a brief 30 second break because Blake's fiance was making faces outside the door. Yep, for sure, yeah they.

Speaker 2:

Well, she's a five. And um, my son that just walked through the door, he is my, he's one of my fours. Um, I have a difficult time with fours. For sure, my sixness does not understand fourness very well. Um, it's nice because she's uh. Um, it's nice because she's, uh, she's, she's, that, she's, so she's. I'm a six, wing five, she's a five, wing four, and my son is a is a four, right, so she's like the interpreter between the six and the four.

Speaker 2:

Um, it very much helps, right, uh, it's, it's very, very helpful. Uh, again, that communication, right, like, not just personally but professionally, right, it helps in all aspects of that, you know, personal life, workplace. I find it so valuable and I just want the people that I work with to find value in it too. I want them to see how this can help them, and I I don't know if I should say it or not in when I'm talking to them, but I see, you know, a lot of people have the chief complaint that the communication is. There's a problem with communication there. I said I'm giving you a tool right now to help you communicate, you're saying that to the higher ups.

Speaker 2:

I'm saying to the people in my training if I have higher ups in my training, they get it too. Everybody's equal in my trainings. Right? I tell them I'm giving you this communication tool. If you choose to use it, that's amazing. You're going to find a lot of value in it in your personal and professional life. But if you choose to not use it, stop complaining about communication, then right, Because if if you're not going to use every tool at your disposal and then complain that there's a problem, you're probably the problem, right?

Speaker 2:

So I call people out a little bit and I I don't know, like I said, I don't know if I should, I don't know if that's a little bit too direct, but I feel like it's truthful, Right, it's truthful Like hey, like. Because at the end of the day, we're dealing with people, Our job is people, Our job is these adults, and our failures of communication at this company directly affect our people. And this is not a field I ever saw myself in or caring about, honestly. And then I found out when I came into this field I cared a whole lot, a whole lot. These are some of my favorite people in the entire world, and to know that our problems with communication as a company are affecting, or possibly affecting, their lives.

Speaker 2:

That just that breaks my heart. I can't. I can't deal with that thought. So that was a huge reason why I brought the Enneagram in, because I think it's such a valuable tool and if it can help us as a company, it's going to help these folks live better lives, and that's what our mission is at the end of the day is to make sure that these folks are living the best, most positive and productive and most independent lives that they possibly can.

Speaker 1:

Here's the last question. All right, how has knowing your Enneagram type helped you grow as a person?

Speaker 2:

So, knowing again that preparedness right, and knowing again that preparedness right, and knowing knowing why I sometimes get so upset when things don't go right and too many things get thrown at me at once, you know I have prepared for this to change, right, and I mean I can only run through so many different scenarios before I have to get on with life, right? Well, if four things change and then four things change off of those four things, I used to just tend to shut down and I wasn't able to deal with it. And just knowing that the reason why I get upset when things change too many times is because I'm not able to plan for it. So sometimes, really, what I've had to do to grow in with myself is just to say sometimes being prepared is understanding that you're not prepared and that's being prepared enough, right? Um, just knowing I'm going to walk into this thing and have absolutely no idea what's going on and I have to be comfortable in that Um, finding solace in that that different kind of prepared is okay, um, and and I can do that, and my fiance is somebody who absolutely helps me do that, because you know, we definitely have two different styles going through life for sure, especially with, like, the way we view time.

Speaker 2:

Right, I gotta be early. She's like we're already late. We might as well be even later, so it's just understanding that that's okay. Right, that's okay that other people work differently, and it doesn't always have to be my way. As a six, I don't always have to do this. Right, we sit where we sit in church because that's a compromise. Right, I want to sit up front. Right, because I need to know everything that's going on. Right, I need to be up there. I need to be analyzing everything. Right? Um, she wants to sit in the back, so we sit in the middle, because I'm like we sit in the front of the middle, so that's kind of like the front, right, um?

Speaker 1:

it's a compromise, keep your eye on. I mean, you're sitting right across from the door when people walk in and I really like lot. You keep your eye on everyone who walks in.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I like to sit at the end of the row because then I have like control of the row at the end of service. Right, yes, everything is like everything I do there's a specific. I found out, like through understanding the Enneagram, everything I do there's like it all ties back to that sixness, like it all starts to fit together and, just like I said, just knowing that is extremely, extremely helpful. Um, because then I, I recognize man, other people, other people do it different and, like I said, it's okay, it's, it's okay to just let go.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes we don't need to be knowing everything all the time, especially when we went to New York city with our kids. We've gone to New York city several times. So I was already prepared, right, I already knew what Manhattan looked like, but I was like I'm not going to Brooklyn, not doing that, like don't want to go there. The last time we went, my oldest son wanted to go to a store in Brooklyn, so I was like I have not researched that borough at all, but let's go on an adventure. I have to look at that. Not being able to be prepared is more of a. This is just going to be a fun adventure and what happens, happens, and I have my magical bag of things.

Speaker 2:

So you know, if that doesn't fix it, I guess it's just not fixable if the magic bag can't fix it nothing can, nothing can this yeah, and, and people have really come to, like you said earlier, there is now an expectation.

Speaker 1:

that expectation that I have, the thing I can rely on Blake to have the thing I need.

Speaker 2:

We had a Christmas party at work and I'm sitting there with my other two HR people because nobody sits with HR, right, nobody was sitting with us. But this lady came up and she's like Blake, I know you've got a charger in that bag. I said what cable you need. She tells me. I said here you go. Then somebody else comes up and does the same thing and I was like all right, all right, we're done with this. We're done with this, but it's nice. It's nerve wracking, but it's nice at the same time. It's, you know, a double edged sword. It's nice to be needed and it's nice to be prepared, but also sometimes it can get a little bit overwhelming.

Speaker 1:

For sure it takes. It sounds like it must take a lot of your brain power. You're just taking a lot of energy, or is it actually not taking that much energy because it comes naturally?

Speaker 2:

It's just not. It's the way I've always functioned. I find that I find it weird that the other people don't function that way, like how do you not like a four? Like? That's why I don't understand my two kids that are fours, because it's just kind of like this is who I am and this is how it is. I'm like didn't you think about it? They're like no, because this is who I am. Man. I'm like but but that's not how it works. They're like no, I'm my hair's purple today. I'm like but did you do you know how that's going to work later on? They're like no, it'd be fine, I'll just bleach it out and I've just yeah, it's helped me. That's how the Enneagram has definitely helped me is to understand, just to let go. Just to let go and be okay, oh, that's so good.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, let go when other people aren't doing it your way.

Speaker 2:

Very upsetting. I like to be in control of things, for sure. I, because I feel like I'm the most prepared person. Right, I'm the most prepared person. I'm the most knowledgeable person here, because who else has researched this thing for 17 hours? Nobody else, right. It is nice, though, to get somebody in my training. You know, that's I guess that's kind of.

Speaker 2:

My last thought is there's been people at work that I've really jived with.

Speaker 2:

Like I'm just like man, like I just really like having this person in my training, and this gentleman had he, he took the Enneagram test and he emailed me his results, and this is one person that I just really and he emailed me his results and this is one person that I just really, like I said, really got along with. Well, six wing five, oh funny, I'm like this is the craziest thing, you're my clone, right. And then there's another person who's a six wing five, totally get along with them like super well, like it's the coolest thing because, like, when I meet another six wing five, we can communicate without even talking. It's just like we're on a completely different wavelength than anybody else and that is so, so cool. So you know, you have this disconnect with other numbers and you have to bridge that divide. But then you just have this closeness and this validation with people that are your number and your wing and just they're right there with you, right there like you're co-captain in life, and it is just, it's so validating and so neat.

Speaker 1:

I love it so for people listening to this who are thinking of a six that they have in their life, what is like, what would be like a really intentional text message that they could send to their sixes. Like what? What words would you really appreciate hearing?

Speaker 2:

It's a tough question. I would probably really appreciate just hearing thank you, you know. Thank you for always thinking of everybody else, right? Thank you for always thinking of everybody else, right. Thank you for always trying to be there, even when we're not asking like, but recognizing hey, dude, you don't. You don't have to do that either, like You're missing something, it's OK. It's OK, we'll just go to the store, it's fine.

Speaker 2:

We'll just go to the store, it'll be OK. Right, it'll be OK, it's fine. We'll just go to the store, it'll be okay. Right, it'll be okay. Just let your sixes know that you appreciate them. But it's also okay when things don't go right. That will make a six feel very, very good.

Speaker 1:

Like. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for having me on. It was a super fun time Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

We're going to have to do it again because I think I could think of five different ways to take the conversation and keep it rolling.

Speaker 2:

So absolutely.

Speaker 1:

We'll have to do this again.

Speaker 2:

For sure.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for teaching us so much about sixes.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, thank you.

Speaker 1:

Over and out.