The Glow Up - Fabulous conversations with innovative minds.

Current Barriers to Entry Sideline Spatial Creators - Amir Baradaran - Niloom Ai

• Nathan C Bowser • Season 1 • Episode 20

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Amir Baradaran is the founder of Niloom, a company focused on making augmented reality (AR) content creation more accessible through a no-code platform powered by generative AI.

Key Takeaways:

  • Current barriers to AR content creation include technical complexity, high costs, and time-consuming processes.
  • Niloom aims to democratize AR creation by providing a no-code solution for the creative community.
  • The platform integrates generative AI throughout the content creation workflow, from ideation to publishing.
  • Niloom's goal is to improve the shortage of quality content in the AR/VR ecosystem by empowering more creators.
  • The company is focused on rapid prototyping and user feedback to continually improve their platform.

Amir highlights the current challenges in AR content creation, noting that only about 230,000 people have created the majority of AR/VR projects worldwide. This scarcity is due to the technical expertise required, with tools like Unity taking 3-6 months to learn before even starting a project.

Niloom's platform aims to solve this by allowing creators to generate AR experiences through natural language prompts. Users can describe scenes, characters, and actions, with the AI interpreting and creating the content. The platform also offers the ability to add specific assets like 3D models, sounds, and visual effects.

Looking ahead, Amir envisions partnerships with hardware manufacturers to bundle Niloom subscriptions with AR devices. He also hopes to establish an artist residency program, inspired by his own experiences with companies like Metaio (now part of Apple).


About Amir Baradaran
Amir Baradaran is the founder & CEO of Niloom.ai - Prompt to AR/VR (formerly ABXR Engine), a groundbreaking Generative AI-powered content creation platform for spatial computing. Baradaran is also an artist, technologist, and scholar who specializes in artificial intelligence (AI) and spatial computing. 

Baradaran was a leading lecturer in Spatial Computing at Columbia University, where Niloom was born. He is the guest editor for the “AI and Society” Academic Journal for a special edition on AI and the ArtSci Ecosystem. He also founded AnotherAI in Art: A global platform to decolonize the future of AI and artmaking (Partnership with the New Museum & NEW INC). 

Baradaran is the recipient of Rockefeller Foundation Bellagio fellowship, Knight Foundation Arts Award, Canada Council for the Arts New-Chapter & 150th Anniversary Prize, UC Berkeley residency, International Symposium on Mixed and Augmented Reality Future of AR Prize, and Morgan Stanley Pulse Art Fair grant. 

He is a member of Columbia University’s Computer Graphics and User Interfaces Lab and the Digital Storytelling Lab. Baradaran is a TEDx speaker, and an invited presenter to His Holiness Dalai Lama’s World Headquarters for the Summit on Fostering Ethics and Compassion through Museums. 

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Nathan C:

Welcome to the glow up fabulous conversations with innovative mind. Today I'm talking with Amir Baradaran of Niloom. Amir, it's so good to see you again.

Amir Baradaran:

Thank you for inviting me.

Nathan C:

Oh my goodness, I can't wait! I'm so eager to hear what you've been up to since the last time we talked. Can you, Introduce me, and the listeners to the work that you're doing at Niloom ai. And, we'll use that to sort of tease out, a little bit of the innovation journey that's practic there.

Amir Baradaran:

Pedro Almodóvar once said, famously that earliest people who created or played with movies were all magicians. And I really love this because for me, film as motion picture really defines so much of the last centuries. way in which we tell stories about ourselves, right? Way in which we understand even our sense of self, like who are we? How do we tell stories? How do we understand the other through the story as well? And I think as we are moving from 2D pixels towards 3D polygons, I think we are, we are hitting another Moment where the magic of creativity is at work again. And, we need some amazing creators to be able to come on board and be part of the ecosystem. That's so much of need of the creative community. And unfortunately, from my own experience, which I will get into later, but, I think creating XR content right now almost feels like, Trying to get in a very exclusive VIP club where the doorman are the engineers who will never let the creative people in. so with that preface, to create content right now, You need to have quite extensive knowledge of the main engines, whether it's Unity or Unreal, Unity takes three to six months to learn, And then you need to learn C Sharp, which takes another three to six months. So a year later, you're just a rookie starting to create a project. If you have learned how to code, you need another three to six months to create a project if you were to know how to code and how to build within Unity, we are relying on a very scarce community of engineers right now. if you look at some of the numbers, I think Unity has about 5 million users, right? Unity, covers what, 70, 80 percent of all AR, VR projects that are done in the world, right? From this 5 million creators that exist, on Unity as users, there's only 230, 000 people who have created the entirety of all AR, VR projects. How crazy is

Nathan C:

And this, this isn't a dig on Unity users, but elite nature of what shipping a project really means.

Amir Baradaran:

it's basically too technical, too expensive because you rely on very scarce engineers, expensive engineers as well, and so too technical, too timely, and too much money that you need to spend. So therefore it becomes like this almost like. the barriers to entry for the creative community who doesn't know how to code is very, very hard and very high. And that's what I say, it feels like an exclusive VIP club, right? so what we are doing is, through our generative AI, powered basically platform. We are a no code solution, that tries to bring in the creative community and make them be part of this XR party revolution that we are, that I've been privileged enough to be a part of, and I think you have been too. So, this is what we are doing. A content creation platform that's no code, that's catering to the creative community, so that they would be able to contribute to the creation of projects, and quality projects as well. I feel like, if you look at, Vision Pro has been a bit of a flop, right? Like, there's not enough content on it. For people to buy, right? and despite the fact that's a phenomenal device, why would you pay 5, 000 if you cannot do a lot of stuff on it? And these are precisely too expensive, too time consuming and too technical. And this is the problem we are trying to solve. and the goal is through this process to say that if we bring in the creative community who are trained as storytellers to tell proposed stories. Could it be that we could improve the shortage of quality content that exists within the ecosystem? could it by extension also kind of impact, mass adoption and mainstreaming of these devices as well?

Nathan C:

Okay, I have a bone to pick. But here's my bone to pick.

Amir Baradaran:

Give it to me.

Nathan C:

I think you're thinking way too small on argue that creators are the, the, the keystone to The beginnings of mass adoption for the entire industry and that the entire industry is stuck behind this problem. Even if I make a silicon chip that goes into a head mounted, heads up AR device, I still need software. I still need programs. Those programs need user interfaces. Those programs need content. That content needs a story, right? the entire industry is really built on this creator layer and what we are, the stories that we are able to tell is the only limit that this media has. and to get there, we need more artists and creatives. this is your future, but this is a topic that I am incredibly passionate about.

Amir Baradaran:

I love that. Listen, I'm all for the role of creators, and I think this is exactly what we need. We need to empower creators to be part of the ecosystem, and they're left out. They're sidelined. when I was teaching at Columbia University, I was inside the School of Engineering at some point. I was the only non engineer teaching grad level classes. because there were not that many people knowing what I know, so, that's why I guess they chose me. but at the same time, I remember that the Dean of the School of the Art, who's French, she came to our lab once, and this was a lab that has existed since 1984. I think it's with Steven, Professor Steven Feiner that you probably know, like, so before even the word augmented reality was coined, right? It was, Computer Graphics Interface Lab, which carries its name since the last four years or so. So when the Dean of the School of the Arts came, she was like, Amir, I've been the Dean for the last, I don't know, at that time, a few decades, I think a couple of decades. And she was like, this is the first time I'm setting foot inside the School of Engineering, right? and I think this is so telling in terms of the rift that exists between, our engineering department. at the education level and our art schools and but there's good news there because if coding was a prerequisite for so much of what we are doing within engineering and computer science. I think the future of, coding is prompting, is coding in, in, in plain English language. What better language than that? What more sophisticated language than that, right? in, compared to like, some of the computer programs that we have, let's say. Computer languages that we have. Let's put it this way. Yes, go

Nathan C:

wait, you're foreshadowing something here. I want to just get right to it. So you set up this idea that, like, it's too hard to create for spatial experiences for 3D content. That we need to give people easy, low barriers to being a part and that we could really impact the industry. Are you, tell me where this is going.

Amir Baradaran:

Well, it's going to this place that initially when we created Niloom, the idea was that we wanted to create a very sophisticated no code solution that would be drag and drop, right? That would allow, Creators to make sophisticated content, and I'll explain what sophisticated content means for me. But as Transformers came to exist, and kind of literally transformed so much of our lived experiences and our lives it was very clear to me that we needed to integrate generative AI for two reasons. One, the future of coding is prompting. And the future of, prompting is the new drag and drop, that's as simple as that. So you can't have a no code without integrating Gen AI.

Nathan C:

Ooh, that's like, that is a new standard, that I think you just described, right? Like the new no code, has to be AI driven. Give me a number.

Amir Baradaran:

generative AI has been so significantly impacting every aspect of content creation from sound to images to text, right, to 3d models and so on and so forth. So it's almost impossible for me to create a platform that I call content creation platform for XR if we do not incorporate the latest and the best of what exists and is impacting the ecosystem of content creation altogether. So because of these two reasons. I think it was a very important kind of decision we made in order to really make sure that we integrate generative AI in every aspect of the content creation workflow from ideation, to editing, to prototyping, to publishing. and we have a that says, dream it. Generate it, publish it, and monetize it. So, this is really what we want to give our content creators.

Nathan C:

that's a pretty big dream. Can you, I'm very excited. Is there, like a siren potentially in the background? Oh, Nathan, I live in New York. a Nathan ADHD break.

Amir Baradaran:

I'll join you on that ADHD break.

Nathan C:

Okay, so the promise of the best features and the latest technologies integrated at every level is really enticing. If I'm a creator who's just getting started making XR experiences, What might that be like, in the New Loom platform? How would that feel? What would I be doing? could you give me a little tactical version of this vision?

Amir Baradaran:

So, so

Nathan C:

I guess, there are magical storytelling abilities

Amir Baradaran:

So, that's basically telling a story. You're like, Hey, I would like my female character or non binary character move from, left towards right while a dog, walks from the end of the thing towards her. And then, the dog starts, yapping, why the woman says, hi, Nathan, why don't we go for a dance? And then she starts dancing, by the way, add some jazz music while she's dancing for 10 seconds, right? There's so much more you can do, but all the extra stuff that you can do is that you can keep adding on them. So there's one, the story as a timeline, sequential series of things that come together that we understand, or you can add generative AI for all the different components that go into the scene. So, for example, let's say you forgot to say, I want to have music. You add specifically sound and you're like, Hey, I want, to generate a music, that is like symphony like, or it's a jazz acid like, or whatever you want. And you, you immediately generate it and you add it to the scene. Or you're like, Hey, we didn't add any props to the scene. Right? And you're like, hey, I would like to have an, I don't know, an old school, London like, red, kiosk, telephone kiosk, for example, right? Like, like, whatever that you want to create. So we provide you with the capacity of adding different types of assets. So assets could be 3D models. 3d characters could be animals, could be, sound, sound, could be music or sound effects. So like moving, tapping, all of these things are sound effects. You could have visual effects. you could control the lighting. You could, add, skybox in case you want it, because we can allow you to within basically within one click, you can publish in AR or VR and can publish on iPhones or On Vision Pro or on MetaQuest, all of this within a click basically. So if you choose to have your project live in VR, then you can generate the sky dome. So 360 kind of environment that lives as your overall, sky inside which your characters are moving. you can do that. Then you can also generate just plain photo, video, and other stuff. So you can. Build a story based on its individual components that you keep adding to the timeline.

Nathan C:

I love it. Oh my gosh, I'm, My brain is awash with like, ooh, what would prompting this be like? And like, how are you paying for those credits? And where do you put system messages? And like, how do you deal with brand voice? But like, oh my gosh, we don't have any time to get into the deeper AI of it. so I'm just going to have to sort of pull back. With this expansive vision for Ray, like we've talked about this vision and kind of like where you're taking Niloom, through the technology, through the workflows, I'm, I'm curious to know, how do you, measure the impact? of a tool like Niloom and making creators more powerful or making their days easier. Like, how do you think about the impact of your work and, how you measure success?

Amir Baradaran:

That's a really good question. To be honest, I feel like every new creator that we add to the ecosystem is a major win for us, right? that's the biggest measure of success for us. To have creators come to us and say, wait a second. So I don't need to go into 10 different softwares to create special, different things. And then, even if I were to do that, I would, you mean, I don't need an engineer to actually build an app for me and everything is made within a click available to me," but I hear these kinds of things for me. these are moments where, it becomes exciting. and, we talked about filmmaking and the power of the magic of films and storytelling in that medium. But I think we are so far away from understanding the full potential of storytelling for spatial computing. Augmented reality, extended reality, virtual reality, because it's interactive, because the fourth wall is often broken, right? So, there's responsiveness, there's co creation that happens with the users. And all of these things, while it is true that we can transfer the knowledge that we have from 2D, film, motion picture, understanding of storytelling, but there's so much more we need to build around it, right? The simplest example is like when we were making paintings on the wall, or doodles. That was one type of storytelling, right? And then when we learned to do, pigmentation and fabric creation and like canvas and like be able to have, actual painting, that was another thing. when photography came about, that was another set of storytelling. When motion picture came about that said,"hey, Put that photograph, 24 frame of it or whatever number you would like it within a frame and, and within a second run it and that gives you the illusion of reality." Right? There was a whole series of new magicians that were created around this to say, how do we tell stories? And this is the type of, empowerment that we have given ourselves as goal to achieve is to facilitate, to take away so much of the barriers to entry to this level, so that we can say to all of our creative community that, hey, come on board. And play with this new medium because it's definitely magic and it's time to do some magic together.

Nathan C:

Yeah, the idea, that not only do you have more tools of expression and, a depth of engagement, a depth of interaction that we've seen, with each different and successive medium often it's not until we've been in a tool for a while that we even start to know all of the impacts and all of the characteristics of that medium. I love this idea of, you have to make it easy so that our translators, these folks who understand how to tell stories, who understand how to reach people and connect with the current moment, make a creative's life as easy as possible because they know how to solve some of the hard problems that are on everybody else's minds. I love this, just giving so many more layers and tools. Niloom is, This is relatively young, How have you used, or how have you connected with creators and your target audience, to build and validate and understand the value of these ideas and tools?

Amir Baradaran:

So we are constantly learning, I feel like, and we are constantly learning from our audience in a way, think of us as the, glam squad that constantly adds to the makeup kit," that kind of thing. So we add to the features as we go on, to really respond to the needs of, what is considered to be necessary for them to tell the stories they want to tell. But having said that, we are pre seed right now. we are just about to add a payment plan because up to now has been for free, so we're just about to add a payment plan with a token system that we're adding, just regular token system, not blockchain, to allow for extra features for people to be able to build more stuff together with it. So, yeah, what, how we are building. for us, it has been very small number of people that we have been allowing to, because there's a big wait list right now, in all honesty for us, it was what we did throughout the end of the summer. And right now it's like small number of people we bring in, we have direct communication to understand how are they using it? What is it that they're using? so that when we open it up to everyone, we would be closer to what the platform should look like,

Nathan C:

Perfect, I love it. one of the things that I hear XR creators talk about a lot. is, workflows, documentation, understanding how tools work."Like, hey, how did you get that thing? like, I have a very specific idea, a very specific input, like, how do I get it?"And sometimes, just the details of, how do you make this work? I know this tool should be able to do it," or, can be, all that it takes to really unlock an idea or a capability for an artist. And, Product teams are often so close, to the tools, to the ideas, to how the workflows should, have been imagined to work that, having that back and forth has got to be just incredibly valuable, because creators are so specific, in some ways. The show is called The Glow Up, right, which is a notable transformation, a rebirth, a reawakening. And, early in your, journey, maybe let's just think about this as, six month goals. So what is, the glow up that you're hoping to see for Niloom in the next six months? And, what are you working on there?

Amir Baradaran:

I think our biggest thing would be really to get to a point where we wouldn't need to have waitlists and we can just open it up to everyone, right? So that's the biggest, goal for us. And for that to happen, then we're adding the payment system. I think fundraising is part of that too. the other thing that's really key is, I feel like partnership with some hardware manufacturers could be a really good option as well. So imagine if a hardware, we are already plugging into, Vision Pro, right? so think of us as like, there's a content creation platform and there's a content distribution. So content distribution is. It's basically a mobile app on mobile phones, Android and iPhone, and also an app on Vision Pro, as well as an app on MetaQuest. So when you're publishing your project, you can literally click and say, I want, to, for the project to be published in here, in here and here. I think if we can, Add more, of the existing hardware companies that exist out there or make some partnerships with them to be able to make it easier for their, when a user buys a piece, even if it's for anywhere from like 300 to 3, 000, 4, 000, if you add a subscription that comes with the headpiece for a year. Just imagine the number of content that could be generated by the very people who are using, who are users, but they become creators as well. So for me, that's really, that becomes really key. And last but not least, We have had a program with, some schools. My goal is, in my wildest dreams to have it. Always available for free for all schools. And, we have worked with, some schools already. We've worked with like Concordia, we have worked with UCLA. We have worked with a bunch of schools, some schools in France as well. And then last but not least is that I want to set up an artist residency program because. The way I got into this was that 15 years ago, a little bit more maybe, you remember Metaio, probably one of the best, AR companies of the time, they had this artist residency program, so as part of their R& D, they would let we were a few artists back then. I was very privileged to have access to, their army of engineers that would really push us to do crazy projects. And, thanks to them, I was able to do big projects in the Louvre, British Museum. We did the opening of Art Basel, Armory Show. This is like 2012, quite a long time ago. And unfortunately, a few years ago, they were acquired by Apple, hence the AR kit. I think that's the same patent as them at the beginning. And it's the same core team, but obviously they have grown enormously. But, that process of having access to an army of engineer or a toolkit that allowed me to express myself and having visionaries of that time to believe in me, like to take me under their wing, whether it was Aurene Barr Or Stephen Feiner or many other, OGs of the time. it was really helpful. So our goal is to create a artist residency program where we would be able to really let some of these amazing creators, creative community to also flourish the same way I had the privilege of doing that.

Nathan C:

Oh, I love it. you went ahead and answered the sort of longer term question as well, and it's so perfect. the creators that I talked to, When I've asked about, how did you get started? What was your direction? Almost always there was a platform that trusted them, saw their work, saw their vision and knew that if they could get them into tools, if they could give them the powers to explore these new dimensions, that like they would break open, barriers. It's, Just so lovely.

Amir Baradaran:

Yeah, absolutely. I feel there's so much power in that. process of co creation that takes place between the creative minds and our engineers and the product people. And I feel like, these are priceless moments for everyone,

Nathan C:

So, Amir, one of the things that I like to make space for, right? You mentioned a number of different goals, a number of different initiatives, folks you're looking to connect with. Is there something, that you're looking for right now to help you make that next breakthrough in Niloom's journey? is it network? Is it mentors? Is it, Folks for the waitlist, who are you looking to connect with these days?

Amir Baradaran:

Yeah, absolutely. if you're a listener to Glow Up and you would like to be part of Niloom, we'll give you a code, maybe, Glow Up as a code. How's that? to get them ahead of the wait list for, others. And, yeah. And, in terms of other things, so we always. Are in the lookout for interns as well. So, we, we work with, having, being coming from an academic background, I feel like it's important to train the next generation of our storytellers, So internship is really important for me. if you're an artist, feel free to reach out to us. And if you're a VC, reach out to us.

Nathan C:

Amazing, that's gotta feel, like a fantastic milestone, amazing. One of the things that we do make space for as well is, the opportunity to give a community spotlight, a shout out to a group, a nonprofit community work that you think, should get a little extra attention. Did you have, a shout out or a, spotlight that you wanted to.

Amir Baradaran:

the XR Guild, quite important job they're doing. I think, thinking about, policy, advocacy altogether, but also ethics of coming up with some kinds of norms and kind of framework, ethical framework based on which we could be pursuing XR, is, is monumental, is so, so key and so important. Same thing with, Tom Furniss's, Visual World Society, right? Like, I feel like he, being the grandfather of, AR, in so many ways has contributed, but I think his latest contribution is also a very good one where he brings together this kind of aggregates this community to discuss, ethics of utilization of AR, VR, AI, and all of these things. And the intersection of these technologies, how it impacts our, our, our sense of humanity altogether. And then obviously the usual, the, there's some great, LGBT Tech, Starts Out, like there's, there's Some amazing, more, queer community, driven, organizations that are always, that I always have a, have an eye on. So, yeah.

Nathan C:

Amazing. Our first ever quadruple spotlight. I love it. Share the love. and also another first in the Glow Up history, a VIP list, a VIP code to get you ahead of the wait list. In Niloom ai. So, Amir, we're gonna hold you to that one.

Amir Baradaran:

Yeah.

Nathan C:

I love it. Thank you so much. It has been, so wonderful to check back in on this mission that you have around supporting creatives, making barriers to, being a part of this magic new, medium of storytelling and connection. And, honestly, ideally moving the needle for adoption on the holding industry of spatial computing, while you're at it. It's been so, inspiring and, refreshing to check back in.

Amir Baradaran:

Thank you. just before I leave, I would love to say two things. One is, there's a beautiful quote by Maya Angelou that says, you cannot use up creativity. The more you use it, the more you have, right? So I think this is, very important for me at least as a guideline towards where we are going. also in some ways it builds into the next point I wanted to say and it was really to say thank you for you who has worked so hard Diligently in the last few years, to queer up the XR ecosystem in the largest sense of queering up, right? and I think if it wasn't for you, the kind of spaces that have been created. The kind of spaces that you have been holding for a lot of people such as myself, has been quite dear to me and I'm sure I'm not the only one. So thank you for queering the XR ecosystem.

Nathan C:

Thank you, Amir. That's very sweet. I can only leave it there. it's been so great to connect. Thank you so much.

Amir Baradaran:

Thank you.