The Glow Up - Fabulous conversations with innovative minds.

Building a Microbial Metaverse to Teach Health Sciences in VR with Visual and Kinesthetic Learning

• Nathan C Bowser • Season 1 • Episode 25

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Dr. Jane Harrington is the CEO and Co-founder of Med Micro Maps, a company developing virtual reality experiences to teach microbiology and infectious disease concepts.

Key Takeaways:

  • Med Micro Maps uses VR to create immersive, mission-based games for life science learners to explore viruses and bacteria.
  • The company's approach combines color-coding, 3D visualization, and gamification to make learning microbiology more engaging and accessible.
  • Their VR experiences are designed to cater to visual and hands-on learners, who make up over 80% of students interviewed.
  • Med Micro Maps integrates AI to personalize learning experiences and adapt content to individual user levels.
  • The company is expanding beyond medical education to reach broader audiences interested in understanding microbes and health.

Dr. Harrington's journey began as a bench researcher and educator, recognizing the limitations of traditional microbiology education methods. Med Micro Maps evolved from her desire to make microbiology more accessible and engaging, especially as hands-on lab experiences became less common in educational settings.

The company's innovative approach uses a color-coded compass system to help learners understand different types of microbes and their characteristics. This visual method, combined with interactive 3D models in VR, aims to make complex concepts more intuitive and memorable.


Med Micro Maps has recently completed its National Science Foundation Phase One minimal viable product and participated in the ICORP Program, conducting extensive user research. This process led to a shift in their target audience, expanding from medical students to include a broader range of learners interested in life sciences.

About Dr. Jane Harrington.

Dr. Jane Harrington is the CEO/Co-Founder of MedMicroMaps and she is leading an innovative team to create an immersive microbial metaverse.  Her life mission is to apply the knowledge acquired from her training as a bacteriology bench researcher with her decades of experience as a medical school educator to make microbiology fun and engaging for students of tomorrow. 

After working at colleges in 4 different countries, the pandemic revealed the need for new teaching modalities for personalized learning, especially for bilingual and neurodivergent students.  

By leveraging emerging technologies of AI & XR, Dr. Jane aims to revolutionize the learning experience for medical and nursing students by transporting the user to the nanometer perspective in the human body where they can play and talk with super-sized microbes.

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squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

This is my dream, my life passion, my goal, and I, I, I don't, it will probably be in a form that is beyond even what I can imagine, but I will never, never stop sharing about my love of microbes. And I will never, ever, ever stop going into schools. I will be a forever an educator. And so I am, I'm, this is a passion project. So it's gonna be successful.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

There is nothing more to add to that. Hello and welcome to the Glow Up. I'm Nathan Seehan. Today I am talking with Dr. Jane Harrington of Med Micro Maps. Jane, it is so great to see you today. Thank you for joining us today. Thanks for having me. I really love your podcast, so it's quite an honor to be, here as a guest. thank you very much for your hosting. Now we have talked before and I, have a little bit of knowledge about what you've been up to at Mend Micro Maps, but, for the audience at large, could you please, introduce yourself and the work you're doing with MEND Micro Maps.

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

Yeah. Hi, I'm Dr. Jane. I'm the CEO and Co-founder of Med Micro Maps, so Medicine, medical. So we're talking about infectious disease in humans, micro, because it's. Microscopic. Our world is the world of viruses and bacteria. And maps because we have a whole system to guide you. So it is, using virtual reality, to create a microscopic world mission-based games for, life science learners to explore about viruses and bacteria.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

Okay. So an educational application about viruses and bacteria that you experience in VR. Can can you, tell us a little bit about how you got to this idea of sharing your vision? In virtual reality.

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm actually a trained bench researcher. I'm a scientist, so I have been in labs for three decades and I have spent a lot of time in microscopes. I've worked with bacteria viruses and I love them. I've been an educator for the last. 15 years, mostly medical school, but I've also taught nursing, undergraduate, and I love going to schools K through 12. the problem is over periods of time, we don't have wet labs anymore. They're too expensive. Pretty much medical schools and nursing schools, we've stopped doing hands-on. And so when the pandemic hit, I was teaching about a thousand students across the globe from my little tiny camera. How can you learn something when you can't see it? You can't touch it. The vocabulary is very, very Latin based. So students who are going for life sciences, they have a lot of exams. So say for instance, a high school senior, they have advanced placement biology. They have to learn microbiology. Students who are pre-med, they have to take their MCAT to get into medical school and absolutely for, any licensed practitioner, so physician, nurse, public health, pharmacologists, they all have to take these high stakes exams and they rely on. Rote memorization, they do flashcards. If you can't see it, you can't touch it. For those of us who are visual learners or hands-on learners, it's very difficult. And so the high stakes testing becomes this incredibly stressful situation. So when the pandemic, I said, I want to teach students. I wanna teach the future generation about amazing microbes. And how do we do that? this is where technology comes in. So I actually, invented a new way of learning. And so it is actually based on neuroscience. It's using color coding. So this is our compass that we see. The pink right here, our e coli and salmonella are pink under the microscope. And so instead of just memorizing words, you see pink images. And in our virtual reality app, you can touch them. Our salmonella, we actually have a game that you can surf them. And so whenever you can see it, interact with it, it's gigantic. It's much easier for you to learn. And so also another part of the compass is the body. And so I actually woke up with a sore throat this morning. I'm getting over Covid. And so for a physician or a parent, or even if you wake up, the question is, do I need to go to the doctor? Do I need to get antibiotics? That's a universal experience. So whenever we teach, so I've been teaching for students, there's a huge difference if you have a sore throat and it's upper body that's going to be your north coordinate. Well, that's probably a viral infection and you should stay home and just, you know, take your fluids, rest. However, if there's something in the lungs, so that's gonna be our lower respiratory tract. Now we're starting to be concerned about pneumonia. And so there are different microbes that are sort of the upper respiratory common, common cold versus pneumonia, which can be life-threatening, and then onset is really important. If you wake up and you felt fine yesterday, it's gonna be a virus or a bacteria they replicate quickly. So that's going to be our west to east 24 to 48 hours. It's gonna be a bacteria, and then our viruses are in the northwest quadrant where if you have a cough that's been going on for a while, my daughter just recently had walking pneumonia, which is caused by, it's called an atypical microbe. Or if you have something that is a fungal infection, that's going to be a cough that lasts for a month. And so that's where our parasites are down here. The blue would be our fungal agents such as candida.'cause we stain them with blue. And so the map, if we actually have an ebook that is the atlas that is consistent with this, really elaborate. but now we have the virtual reality app, so you get to play with the microbes Artificial intelligence is where I'm gonna introduce this to the guy right here. So actually, It's gonna be a bacteria phage. So it's the interpretation of the user. So this is actually a bacteria phage, which is a virus that targets bacteria. It's harmless to us, and we modeled after cryo electromicroscopy. So if you're seeing these little ridges on this microscope that this microscopic images, this is actually. Based on real protein structures, and that's something that's really I'm passionate about, about our build is for IMSA technologies, is we have this great opportunity to show real science. I'll give the care caveat goog eyes. That's not scientifically accurate, but it becomes approachable. That's something people are intimidated by science. We want it to be approachable. So our AI actually has a childlike voice, has a great sense of humor, and we actually modeled it after Mohu in the, show Mulan, in the movie Mulan, to have that like ancient knowledge, but mischievous.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

I am so enamored, seeing. just what you said, right? Seeing the information about these different types of bacterias, these different types of microbes, how and where, right? Like starting to have this. Like dimensional representation of this idea and like this way that I can start to organize, I am like immediately like, interested in this compass and is like, are those secondary points at the 45 or are those like backend space and are they going forward and backward? so you've already got me imagining, these ideas and you know, I'd have to say like. If I was going to choose one of the reasons about like, why would you put this content in virtual reality, like how else are you going to be able to put googly eyes on a microscopically accurate model of a bacteria phage you'd need some equipment.

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

An imagination. So our AI agent is called phage. It's our mascot. So it's a phage, P-H-A-G-E, do eye'cause it's our trained ai. And another thing that's very important for the AI training is the bulk of knowledge. And so I actually have 20 years of my exams, I have 20 years of my contents that has been curated and is. Accurate is accurate. And so that's what our AI is trained on my material. And so it's a way of communicating to future generations across the globe about the information that is also at levels. So whenever the user first puts on the headset, it's a basic question of are you familiar with bacteria fas? If you are a senior in high school or if you never taken any micro before, you probably are not familiar with that term. So that becomes a clue for the AI to say, okay, I need to use a certain level of language that's appropriate, that is interesting, that is adaptable for that learner. A user puts on the headset and says, oh, I know what bacteria phages are. Then the AI is going to use a different set of language than maybe a second year medical student or somebody who's familiar with biomedical research.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

So, just to make sure I hear this correctly, is AI the thing that lets you in this like very expansive model, build a like personalized experience for each of these learners?

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

yes. I'm just of that our, for our release that's coming out in the Medi Quest store. hopefully it may, we are having, it's the freemium model so that everyone can use this. There's a lot of plate elements to it. We have a whack of microbe. we have a, we're gonna have of course, the surf and salmonella. So we wanna introduce the general audience about microbes because. It's not taught, it's not currently taught aside from wash your hands, from germs, and that leads to a lot of distrust, a lot of misinformation. So we want to have the gaming fun elements. And so for the AI dialogue, we have it set at the sort of entry level and that free access to anyone of all ages. However, if you want the advanced level, so say for instance you're studying microbiology, in undergrad or you are a nursing and medical, so those are, are sort of our key markets. then you would have the subscription to the AI training. And so that's where you get the advance information, you get the quizzing, you get also integration with your content. So you can take your professor lectures as a PDF, as a PowerPoint and feed it into our app, and it will then create quizzes and test and language and vocabulary checks. And that's where the subscription comes in. So we are doing business to consumer and so for students who are life science learners really at the college level. And so they will have their individualized AI training matching to what is going on in their curriculum.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

That's super cool. Two of the things that you brought up, one of the challenges with AI is that it's often, trust is an issue and like, how do you know that what this AI is saying is accurate? I was at a call just earlier today where a fan of, the model Claude was talking about how in early iterations Claude couldn't get to the internet, but knew it should present case studies, and so it would make up fake case studies and even fake URLs to link them for you. Even Well, I did the science, I collected it over this rigorous career. I've used it in my teachings, so, so I love how you're fixing trust on that side. And then the other. Side, is like, how do you make AI meaningful into what I'm doing? Do I have to download another app? Do I have to go to another place? And that if, if I can like start to bring in my coursework into my conversations with Phagi and right start to, you know, not. cheat on tests, but actually activate the information that I have to learn in a way that's working for me. how do I trust that it's helpful and like, how do I actually make it relevant?

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

I will elaborate on this in that we actually are taking a step further, in, for our AI avatars, we have two. And so we are using almost like a model of Star Wars, whether you have the Jedi master, and then you've got R2D2, who's the buddy. And so in a learning experience, you're gonna have. The expert. And so we have Dr. Jane, the avatar. And so that avatar, and I'm using that word very specifically, is modeled on me. And so it looks like me. Sounds like me, and the information that is coming out of the expert is now verbatim. And so I am having conversations and all of my stories. That's key point that we will have the avatar. Just repeat it and we're gonna do sound files, sound bites, and so can you trust that professor who is in this? In who? In this learning experience? Well, I have my 25 years of teaching and using actual language and analogies whenever you learn something new, if you've never heard of a bacteria phage, if you look at this and say it looks kind of like a spider, and using that association, that is such a valuable tool. So our expert avatar, Is truly trained on myself. And then the other one is going to be the Phsi. So pH is, they have a dialogue. It's a three-way dialogue, and Phsi plays the role of the near peer. And so the near peer is very much of digesting complex information and not making things up because the key content is fed directly from my material. I mean, and again, I've been teaching for a long time, and so the AI is. The tutor, the agent, don't ever call it an AI tutor. They get really mad. So like, they're like, no. So we started using the word agent and so then it becomes a very much a three-way conversation, dialogue, and it becomes really individualized. And so with the training, even the, ai, Agent, the bacteria phage, will remember what worked best for you. And so in learning, we like to have a lot of analogies, similarities, stories again. And so yeah, that, that becomes now it's a collaborative process and that is a major leap about, using AI in education. You can't just take what open AI is. Feeding you. It is, it's really not there yet. Versus you take the core information from a true, trusted source, Dr. Jane Harrington, myself, and then digest it with this iteration conversation, quizzing. That's another key aspect that we have in there. and I, it's going to be so incredibly helpful for that aspect and that that's, I always say the icing on the cake, it's the interactive that we really love about our app.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

So Dr. Jane, I have way too many questions. One of the first areas that I think is really powerful that I wanna call out before I jump into the questions right, is, certain professions, especially those that are not involved in technology directly, sometimes have a hard time imagining, well, like, I don't need to make video trailers or like, I don't send automated emails, so like, why do I need. To know about AI or like, how can I use ai? One of the ways that I try to encourage people to think about their place with artificial intelligence and large language models, is really like, what is the data set, right? Like, what is the information that you want to activate, to learn about, to share, you know, to train it. What you called out I think is really powerful, right? If you are a teacher, you have this expertise, you have this perspective on communication, on storytelling. You have this data about what works and doesn't, and like your class plans, your approach to explaining things, your visualization approach. Those are all data sets that are uniquely a part of you and can be turned into, these assistants, these guides, these mentors, that activate and hopefully Dr. Jane classrooms to classroom, around the world in that one-to-one feeling. I love how you're taking this background, this data, this expertise that you've amassed and have this very clear outlet to continue using it? It's not like you're inventing a whole new Dr. Jane, but it's like, how do you use AI to superpower, that Dr. Jane?

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

So, on that, I would love to just, give a clarification since the last time that we met. our, men micro maps team, got funded by the National Science Foundation. we just completed our phase one minimal viable product. And we participated in the National Science Foundation ICORP Program. that was a really intense seven week program. we traveled around. we were in, Texas, we went to California, we visited campuses and we interviewed 115 people. We had 40 students, so higher education students across life sciences. So again, veterinary, health, dental, et cetera. But we also interviewed. Professors, we interviewed provost presidents, and we interviewed people who were in the XR AI industry. And so our strategies about using this tool as an engaging, valuable, fun, long lasting. And so in our design we are first release is going to be single player for, the learner. And so we really wanna get it into the hands so that they have it, starting out, whichever their basic biology classes up to their, graduate level, health sciences. But we are absolutely planning for institutions. So I've been an educator. I've worked at eight different universities. I've worked in four countries. And we are designing our infrastructure of our data. So we're using the Microsoft Azure, and that is now going to be planning for the institutional adaptation. I just had a, a meeting today with the director of a, innovation, program, and they're, they have undergraduates, they have nursing, they have medical, they have public health. And our goal for whenever we do our release next year, and so that's going to be in the spring of 2026, is that we are designing the experience for institutions, so then the professor can have it adapted to their Microsoft Suite files, their PowerPoints, their Excel files, their, you know, whatever. And they can actually then change the avatar. Every professor has their own stories. Every professor has their own passion, interest take on it. And so that's what we are creating this pipeline. We're creating, again, the data infrastructure so that when we partner with institutions, they will have that ability to adapt for the courses, it's. Very, very important that the material that the students are learning grows in that scaffolding. So what they're learning in their undergraduate chemistry, you know, biochem, health science. So again, I keep really iterating about how expansive microbiology is. Then this student be like, oh, I learned this. I learned glycolysis in my year two of my undergraduate. Now I'm in nursing school. I gotta come back to it. But I don't have to sort through PowerPoint files and trying to figure out what did I study on this day where our infrastructure, and again, our data processing, it's all there. Cool.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

the one of the things, you know, as a marketer that I'm always advising. product teams is like, be in the tools that your customers already use, right? Like, why are you making a new platform? Can you just be where they already are? And, this idea that like, professors could just kind like.

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

and play.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

link their files structure and, be sharing. And that students could, you know, have a, you know, that FEI almost like transforms to become a career mentor and coach and guide as, you know, someone moves from student, into, practicing. in whatever field that they're working in. I have to, Dr. Jane, I have to go back and congratulate, the 150 additional user interviews that you've done, since we

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

A hundred, 115. that was completed in December. And actually our team won, the People's Choice Award for when we presented for the National Science, the ICORP Program. And that was with 19 of SBIR team. So this was a lead of elite, very proud of that. however, since, the last. three months. we've had our app, we've had our, 50 people in headsets. So 115 were done for customer discovery and we couldn't really talk about our product, but now we're touring campuses and going to conferences. And so yeah, we are spreading the message. and it's global. we just launched our, website. that was at the end of February, and as to date, we have actually had 28 countries sign into our website. yeah, we've been on the news. we actually have an invitation to, the, NextMed Health we're going to Coronado Island in San Diego next week. everyone who's tried our headset, the first question they ask is, when can I get this?

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

Amazing. you'll have to say hi to Daniel Kraft and my friend Caitlin Kraus when you're there, with Next Med, I'm curious, after talking to over 150, students, teachers, users, et cetera, is there something that you learned from all of that, research that. Changed your mind about, your product or how you need to go about things.

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

Well, one key, I don't wanna say the word pivot, it's adaptation when we started, I've been in second year medical school, you know, teaching second year medical school for the last 15 years. And so when we originally were designing the app, we were only really using the language that is for, students who are board ready. So they're taking their boards. and in the discovery, you know, it's a small population and a lot of them don't have VR headsets. what we did discover is when we started talking to the younger population and so, you know, high school seniors, and then also non-science media arts. So we were at Ringling College of Art and Design. We were at the Cougar Lab at University of Houston. And what that actually was, it was just mind blowing for me the curiosity about the life sciences. A lot of, the technology. There's a high portion of A-D-H-D-A-D-H-D and they say, I was really curious about science. Usually in elementary school when you're doing hands-on, but by the time you get to high school, it's all multiple choice tech space. Yeah. I was interested. I couldn't do the math. I, you know, I, there was these barriers and so when we opened up our ideas, our language and say, Hey, you wanna learn about viruses and bacteria, you wanna play, you wanna explore? That opened up a whole new avenue for, really getting people interested in science. So it became less about study for your boards, which is what the initial goal was versus. Wow. You wanna learn about what's going on inside of your body and have fun and do it in a way that's engaging. That just absolutely has been, groundbreaking for me to really spread my message. And you don't have to be an MD or PhD to learn the science. It's just a matter of having, fun and creativity. in the interviews, we actually did coding. So we, we did Airtable. and we partnered with, a data scientist at Montana State University, and we coded anyone who said, and again, anyone, students, again, the whole, the whole gamut of sort of a ed tech. About, do you have a learning disability, A DHD, autism, anxiety, in English, second language. We asked a lot of questions about how people studied. The data told us that over 80% of US students that we interviewed even graduated students, identified as being a visual or hands-on learner. that is amazing. Our current education system with bullet points and multiple choice questions is only really applicable to 20% of the population. having the data, not just from the students, but also from the professors, the XR developers, and what immersive technologies, having the microbes in your hand, it's so phenomenal. To be able to have the microbes and make them big, make them small to have one microbe. You can actually take Sars COVID2 that causes covid and take an antibody, and we have them sized accurately so that you can get a real sense in a three-dimensional space about what these biological agents are. the curiosity was really pervasive. I thought nobody cared about microbiology, but what it was is people say, I used say I'm a microbiologist, and then they go, oh, that's so complicated. I can't learn that. My response is, can you learn the planets? We learn the planets in elementary school with models, it's the same scale, the log scale, so very, big for the planets. How do we learn the relative sizes and the names and the identity and characteristics with models? And so my thing is, anyone can learn microbiology. You provide them the tools. If you provide them language that's, you know, that is gonna be adaptable for your level. And you can play with them, you can look inside of them. that really has just been, so it, it's been very, very exciting and validating, for realizing how curious people are about these little microbes.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

So I have to commend you just on the amount of research? Like being in a science and medical related profession? it would be expected, but for most, working in innovative technology, Consumer research that gets coded, that gets studied, that gets analyzed by, a professional is often above and beyond what the status quo is. And I personally love that when I hear you saying they were interested to learn about microbes, what that says to me is the technology was not a barrier. And in fact, the technology was so appealing that it made something like microbiology feel like something that they could play with. And so I, I would take that not just as confirmation that there is interest in the subject matter. Right. And that there may be these other blockers that you so clearly identified, but that your model. The way that you've built it into VR, using, you know, additional technologies is actually one that is accessible enough for people to have fun. Like if somebody can start to explore, that had often been like a barrier for adoption in immersive technology. I don't even know how to get started. And so if people are saying like, this is great, give me more. That's like kudos to the design and the interaction and like the work to, to make that model relatable and consumable.'cause like people don't dive in if it's hard.

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

Yeah, I would like. to really highlight about, and I joke about the band words. I try not to use accessible eye roll. Eye roll. We are appealing to all learning types. However, if you get into technology and education for immersive technologies, and we addressed about the key points about, using generative ai, but I'm focusing on using, VR, AR, you know, a virtual reality, which is a hundred percent virtual. Augmented reality is like on your phone, which we have a virtual reality or Augmented reality app. And then the mixed reality that actually is more accessible across different ages. But we are designing for learners with autism, and that is actually on our team. we have neurodiverse developers and so again, different learning. our visual learners, I use it as a blanket if you design it's intuitive and easy and engaging for an 8-year-old with autism. So actually one of our users was my friend's kid, a DHD, eight years old. we observe, we do recordings, we watch about how, if they get stuck or something. And that's what the most interactive room is the map. it's like a planetarium for microbes. It's very advanced science. But learners, when they go in there, they love to touch, they love to play. It's actually now we're designing four. One type of population. However, if you have adaptive learning, it makes it easier for all the rest of us. So if you're neurotypical and you don't have a learning disability, This is great. If you do have English second language, we're gonna change so that it is in your native language. The user can change also in off for sound, on sound, off volume of the background, music, lights on, lights off. And we're even working on getting shaders so that the individual can sort of take the microbes and if they have visual disabilities, they can have it adaptive. And so our team. Is got a, we have a variety of experiences and perspectives and that creates a great product. And I also wanna point out younger generation I. We're designing for the younger generation, and so especially going to high schools and undergraduates and saying. What do you want? We are learner centered and we're not, designing for, my husband's baby boomer. I'm Gen X. We really are creating new technologies for the learners of tomorrow, our kids. And that is something else that is a major value. And I think about why some VR is not being adopted is because it's designed for a 45-year-old.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

you're saying that my kids don't want to set up like a, a different workstation in every room on their Apple Vision Pro. They don't.

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

Whatever is the best learning environment for them, we will adapt for it.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

Amazing. Dr. Jane I am just thrilled about, the last few months that you've had, as you've learned about your audience, grown your product, gotten your weeks away from this next major milestone. I'm curious, how are you thinking today about the impact of your work and how you'll measure that, as you move forward through the rest of the year?

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

for the strategy for the product development we're releasing an alpha, and so it's most likely gonna be. Free, and getting a lot of feedback. But whenever you're talking about any kind of technology that will be for an institution, the enterprise, you have to have data. You have to have data for actually evaluating about learning gains, and that's where we're partnering with institutions. So again, Montana State Billings, Montana. State Bozeman, Lindenwood University is our core, Dr. James Hudson is our co-investigator. we actually are in conversations with, University of Texas Medical Branch. I just recently met with, Oklahoma State University. we'll be traveling to San Diego state, university. and even community colleges, I think you're gonna play a big role. So we are doing a multi-campus educational research study for the before and after pretest post-test and doing a self-assessment about knowledge of the microbes. So we have got the categories for microbes and we're asking about, microbes to viruses that are in the app, to viruses that are not in the app, and what we would anticipate. Is in the 20 minute gameplay is that the knowledge of the microbes that are in the app will increase. And we're also doing this testing not just with, life science learners, but we're also interacting with, digital media. And so we're assessing about, one is your knowledge of the contents and two. Your VR experience because we don't just wanna have an increase in science knowledge. We wanna see an increase in comfortability with the tech itself. And so, that study is going to be done across, in April and May. And so going to different campuses for that. yes, we absolutely have to have evidence of the learning. And then something else that we're, incorporating in our backend is. The user engagement in the app. And so we're partnering with Yet Analytics and that's where you have the headset on. And we don't need anything personal for you, but we record sessions. And so how long are you spending on these assets? So we have 20 microbial assets and the storyline guides you, you have to learn or interact bare minimum with eight of them. 12 of them are optional. You don't have to interact with them, but we wanna know if somebody is in this headset. Are they choosing to interact? And then also, I really was pointing about the levels of the information. So we have got our curious level that is for general audience. We had the learner level that would be an undergraduate or a first year medical or dental, nursing. And then we have the expert level where you would be board ready. And so we are gonna be tracking for the individual user do you wanna learn more? What an incredible metric of user engagement of this. Hey, you have to learn this basic information so that you can pass this level and then get your antibiotic Super Soaker and kill off the strep biogenese that's what's causing the sore throat in our storyline. But if you have users voluntarily learning more voluntarily interacting with these optional assets, that to me, is a home run. That to me is absolutely, evidence that this is not just engaging. So fun is our first thing for ed tech, but it's educational value that people are choosing to learn.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

I am very curious to see your data on this. Anecdotally, as somebody who's been in XR for a while, if the app is usable and all of the content is something that I can find if I'm enjoying myself. I will probably try to find and see every bit of content to understand the parts that I like the best. I have some personal hypotheses and like, I'm also very curious about like, well, what if it, what if that doesn't happen, Nathan? And like what does that say about, goals or interest or focus?

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

That then if something's not being touched, we as developers need to adapt to the learner. If we have an asset that's got some value and no one is interacting with it, it's now our responsibility to change it up, to guide, to assist, to really have, the information. So learning's not tedious. Learning is a natural curiosity that is going to, confer a benefit. Absolutely. We're gonna have rewards, we're gonna have leaderboards. in that when you, master a microbe, you're gonna get badges. And actually right now we have 3D printed key chains. And so that's part of the gaming aspect. we have 20 microbes. For our first storyline, we will have 250. So to master the map, that's what our micro map. System is we're having a plan for, engagement that when you pass a level and then there's gonna be competitive leaderboards multiplayer, we will send you a 3D printed, little key chain so that you get a physical collection, like a Pokemon Go, what have you. You have a physical collection of these microbes as a, as a trophy. And so we we're the benefit of especially our assets. Is that, we're not just gonna be housing them in the virtual world, but we're gonna be doing all sorts of swag. we wanna have stuffed animals.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

it's something. Thing I say about 3D all the time, right? Like if you create, digital spaces that are in 3D, right? Almost by nature there's cameras inside of those worlds. So you can create video, once you have a world, there's almost endless content that you can make within it. I would certainly hope at some point, that Phagie gets brought into the conversation. how

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

that that's, I,

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

their learners.

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

Our assets, we are designing, you know, the GLB file, in partnering with other ed tech and partnering with other gaming and say, hey. You can use our assets, and I am imagining not that far off, that the AI is like the, the AI assist are gonna be talking to each other. And so we're gonna have presence in med micro maps in, in the, you know, engage in VR chat and Horizons and whatever is. Tomorrow, whatever the next one is. And so we are really, envisioning having Phagie as being the micro representative across all these digital platforms and, and, and recognized and say like, oh, I wanna learn about blah, blah, blah. And of course the classic is I have a rash. medical students, they're like, I have a rash. I'm like, I don't wanna see your rash.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

I mean, the common knowledge is like, don't search an illness on the internet because you know, everything leads in a horrible answer. And you should probably just go to the emergency room. I like the idea that like, maybe you should search in VR because you'll get clinically proven like exp expert. Good advice.

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

Yeah, We don't give medical advice. we are an education app, and we have our AI trained that if somebody is asking about individual, it shuts down the conversation. I'm a PhD, go seek a licensed practitioner. But what we provide is knowledge. And so if somebody has a sore throat, we say, these are all the things. That cause sore throat. Oh, you're in a certain geographic area. You have a cough for, a month. these are the ones that are present in this area if you're traveling. So we have a lot of geographic sort of gating for the information. We do not diagnose That is absolutely not our purview. doing is we're just showing you. sharing with you, and absolutely touching what different types of microbes that are associated with these infections.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

Yes, Dr. Jane, it seems like you have so many visions and, such a fantastic, view of, the roadmap for where you're going. I'm curious. what's the glow up or the notable transformation, that you're looking to make in the next year or

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

For technology, you know, technology, education, you have to be forward thinking. We've been working on this for, approximately five years. And so we were planning for not the headsets that are today, not the technologies that's today, but what's tomorrow, what is in the future, and that is really, my experience of going from being an academic, It's what is today like that, that is what I'm teaching versus being a forward thinking entrepreneur. We are planning our app, our tech, our really our vision, our assets for what is in a year and another year from now. And one thing that we have in our short term, it is the phone integration in that, we are, the goal is to have an Augmented reality app on your phone with the Phagie AI tutor and the ability to spawn about the, our, assets, our 3D assets that is partnered with. Your Quest app, and we are applied. We applied for the National Science Foundation, phase two. Yay. So we actually, I'm, I feel very, very con confident about the competitiveness of our application. If we get that grant, we already have a team of people ready to go, and then we would have, the conversion of our Unity- based, game, for. WebEx xr, and so WebEx XR is for, you know, the virtual reality, Augmented reality, mixed reality, but for any AR device and so smart glasses, as well as if we're going for institutions, we need to have our app available on the PICO headsets, the HTC vibe watching what's going on for with the Android, the Google. A year ago, even last when I talked to you, I did not have that vision where really getting outta the building, talking with people and say what we are doing is not only cutting edge. For today, but our major release is gonna happen. So we're gonna aim for the phone release in, in September, and then having the enterprise that is going to be WebEx R that's going to be in spring of next year. that is really, that's future. That is future. But we have got the plans for

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

It's almost like a new platform every six months. I love it. and the right, like the approach all bundles nicely under, right, like great content wherever people are and like, wouldn't it be great if men micro maps could also like be in like the seat back information on your airplane trip. So like, there's something actually interesting to do while you're traveling, across the world. amazing. in this ambitious vision and this, bold year that you have ahead, is there something that you're looking for or, do you have a call to action, to the audience abroad

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

right now, we are, in between the phase one, phase two funding. We got supportive, funding from our state as well. So we are kind of on a skeleton crew. we have, two, students who are graduating in May and they really wanna work on our project and we really want them on our project. and so we are fundraising right now. And so we are looking at a pre-seed round. And so, networking for, interested investors for the pre-seed round, especially for. Woman owned because the incredible statistic is less than 2% of VC funding goes towards, female founders. And so we really want to find not just money, like we don't want just a check, but we really wanna find a partner who is going to be, realizing the potential of our vision, the potential for the impact on a global scale. That our app is going to be the only way. To learn microscopic life sciences. And that, again, is a bold vision. But if you put our headset on as soon as you see it, it's mind blowing. It is absolutely mind blowing. so in our call to action, asking for introductions, we are not like absolutely scrambling. We're forward thinking. we really wanna get, those two students who are graduating with, undergraduate master's degree in game design, unity developer. And so I have very, very specifics about, where that funding will go.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

Heck yes. amazing. Right? Let's employ this future generation of inspired creators who are trying to do something. Absolutely love it. Dr. Jane. what's the best way that, people can follow up or, follow your work

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

Med micro maps and so MED, med as a medical micro, M-I-C-R-O, microscopic, and then maps because we guide you. So med micro maps. I'm all over social media and so I'm starting my series, meet a Microbe Mondays. And so each week I'll be doing, it'll be on YouTube, but we're also going to parse it down for TikTok because we're going for the younger generation and have our assets and say, Hey, let's just learn about this microbe. medmicromaps.com, if you go to our website, LinkedIn, Instagram, et cetera. come and check us out. what my next initiative is, is really getting this information out there about the microbes in a language that is appropriate for our general audience and our younger generation. I don't need to be teaching to, PhDs and MDs. They already have the core information versus learning about micro. Microbes. Learning about vaccines, learning about antibiotics, learning about in, infections. That is something that we very much need in our society today. I'm gonna be countering the misinformation on social media with fun. I absolutely love talking about my microbes, but I like to make them just silly and fun.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

Dr. Jane, I could talk to you for literally Hours and hours. but you have so much to do. I have to thank you so much for this wonderful chat. I honestly think that, while teaching the world about microbes is the thing that inspires you, to do this work. some of the things that you're, working to achieve and build, I think are also going to do a lot to teach people about the data sets and the knowledge that they have and how to use. Some of these new tools, these new models, visual right, education, a AI agents. So I think if you're successful with this app, you're also gonna teach a lot of people about learning. About communicating with new technology, right? And even how technology really shouldn't be like a single touch point, but like the assistant and the, the guidance and the help that you need where you are. it's so exciting to hear about all of this research driven, user-focused learnings that are going in to this robust and ambitious plan for the year. Thank you so much for sharing

squadcaster-gdd9_1_03-21-2025_143237:

Just a correction. You said, if we're successful, when we're successful, this is my dream, my LA life passion, my goal, and I, I, I don't, it will probably be in a form that is beyond even what I can imagine, but I will never, never stop sharing about my love of microbes. And I will never, ever, ever stop going into schools. I will be a forever an educator. And so I am, I'm, this is a passion project. So it's gonna be successful.

nathan-c---they-them-_1_03-21-2025_133237:

There is nothing more to add to that. Love it. now.