Kat Higgins ~ Songwriter on Love, Life & Loss

We sat down for our second interview with Nashville No. 1 hitmaker Kat Higgins, and this conversation was as heartfelt as it was powerful. Kat opened up about the recent loss of her close friend and co-writer Brett James, who tragically lost his life in a private plane crash, and how that loss has given the song “Knowing You”—a No. 1 hit for megastar Kenny Chesney—an entirely new and deeply emotional meaning. What was once a beautifully crafted song now carries a weight of real-life grief and gratitude, making every lyric hit even harder. In the midst of that heartbreak, Kat also shared a beautiful new chapter in her life, as she prepares to welcome her son—something she’s long hoped for and is now finally becoming a reality. As always, her authenticity, resilience, and continued success as a songwriter were on full display, making this second visit with Kat even more meaningful than the first.

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Musical Miles Podcast welcomes all interested in being a guest on our show. Artists, Songwriters, Festivals, Concerts, Venues, Fans - Contact us to request an interview to promote your Band, new single, album, song, historical or new venue or to share your story with us and our fans. We only conduct in person interviews, so check with us to see where we are headed to next.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Thank you. All right. We want to welcome you out. You're good. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Oh, you knew that.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Welcome to the stage to the interview, Miss Cat Higgins. Mrs. Kat Higgins. I always want to call her Miss. I call my wife Miss Shandel. So after 45 years, she 44 years. Well, how many years has it been, dear?

SPEAKER_02 0:28

We get together 44.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

44. Married 43. So welcome, Kat.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Kat and I got to sit down earlier this year in Red Lodge.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

For our first interview, we got to meet there, and uh we did the interview at uh a cool building like this. Uh it was called the uh Buses of Yellowstone Preservation Trust. And there's we just released Kat's episode um last week, last Friday. And if you you'll go on to the to our website and onto YouTube, you see the cover. She's sitting in this really cool old touring car.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

It was so you remember what year that was, like a 34 or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Yeah, and that and the horn sounds like the it's it's so weird. It sounds like a like a donkey.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, cat cat cat really enjoyed yeah, pushing the horn on that. I got to sit in it. Yeah, she's like a video. It was like a yeah, it was so good. She got to push the horn. But if if you guys have you guys seen Kat this weekend, have you had the opportunity to listen to her and hear her?

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

She's such a beautiful young lady.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Thank you so much. Yeah, this is an awesome group of people. Like everybody here watching, like everybody listens so um, you know, just quietly, and then also all the the songwriters that are here. Everybody is so great, but also entertaining. Like I was laughing so hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Oh my goodness. Aaron, Aaron, we got to sit down. We got to sit down with Aaron yesterday after everybody left, right? And then we had our interview with Aaron, and there was no one here, just me and Aaron. Which I didn't I told everybody. I I told you there's more interviews coming. You're welcome to stay. And as soon as we're done today at 12:30, we're gonna interview Miss Jess Jacoy. She's also one of my former guests on the podcast, but we're gonna update Jeff. Yes, and we have uh some others. I hope they show up. But whatever, you're all welcome to stay. Stick around. But Kat, have have you had a good time in Whitefish?

SPEAKER_01 2:35

I have. I have. And we're um I'm here with Jordan Shellhart and um Geo, her husband as well. So my friends are here, and my husband, and I think tomorrow we're gonna go kayaking.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Hopefully, we'll stay above water, but um, we're gonna rent some of those clear ones that they have.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Oh, I haven't seen the clear ones, so you can see the fish in the water?

SPEAKER_01 2:58

The water is so clear. I went into the water yesterday for like five minutes, and um I could just see to the bottom like the rocks. It was just do pe like does everyone live around here that's here or a lot of them are locals, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Okay, yeah, but there's a few, we've got one uh from some Cody, Wyoming, some Pennsylvania. Some uh we do too.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

So my husband and I go to Cody every year in the summer. We have friends there that have a um a ranch called Hawkeye. And yeah, have you heard of Hawkeye? Yeah, so we go there every year, and it's a really special place to us because this is where we oh that's where the baby was conceived.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

And by the way, six months from now we're gonna see March baby boy, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Yes, yeah, baby boy, baby boy. Um, and also when is this is this live on Facebook?

SPEAKER_00 3:52

No, we're not live.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

So I haven't announced it. So listen, we did you you remember, you remember we we we sat down in June and I just posted it. So we're two months, we're a couple months out. So you're safe. You're safe. I yeah, yeah. If you haven't told your mom and dad yet.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

I haven't told them yet.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Okay, okay, yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

One of my friends uh texted me this morning. She's like, Are you keeping something from like she's I was planning to go out to her cabin, like her husband, and and they have a cabin in Gallatin, Tennessee, which is like a little ways from Nashville. But I was planning to go and tell them, but she found out from someone else. So it's just like that tricky time where you gotta just make sure everybody knows.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Why didn't you tell me? Yeah. I know.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

No, it it is, it is what it is. Trust me. We we went through it, so we know.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Fun.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

So, but cool. Well, congratulations on the baby. Congratulations on a great career so far. Thank you. Um, you've got some great songs and have had a an incredible uh run so far. Uh but you've been in Nashville, this didn't happen overnight, right? You're not a you're not an overnight success, um like Laney, right? Ten years in a camp trailer before she got to be.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Oh, I mean most people, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

It's well they call it a ten-year town for a reason.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yeah. Well, and it's it's sort of a trickle too. It's like it it's there's it's there isn't like a ten-year stretch of nothing, and then bam, everything blows up. It's it's like a little bit of little nuggets here and there to keep you.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

To keep you in town, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:27

To keep you going. And and I actually think what keeps you there is not necessarily a big cut or a big hit. It's just the small those small moments in the co-wrights that you love. You're writing the second verse and you're like, Oh, I love this song. This is the best ever. Because it's no it's you know, it's creating, it's just fun.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

And then, you know, a couple weeks after you hand it in to your publisher, your dreams get smashed because it doesn't get cut, you know, like whatever. But that that keeps you going because you love just the art, the craft of it.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

But those stories, those stories of those songs that and we talked, those of you who are here yesterday, we talked with Bryce about um who was the who was the songwriter? Bobby Braddock. Bobby Braddock had a song set for 30 years and George Strait just cut it. So how crazy is that?

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Well, same with House That Built Me as well, apparently. So Oh really?

SPEAKER_00 6:21

You tell us you know that story about that?

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Yeah. So um Tom Douglas and Alan Chamblin wrote that, and um five years, I think it was five years, maybe seven. Steven, do you know the the exact year? I think it's like five or seven. Anyway, they wrote that and it was like it was a very long song. It had like something like four or five verses in the side. Oh wow, and they always just loved the song, and it was always knocking on their heart, you know, like, hey, remember me. Like sometimes when you write a song and you think it was good, maybe it just needed some tweaks, but it you can't forget about it. I mean, how do you forget a title like The House That Built Me? Right, you know, and so they just carved away at it. They kept getting back together, they kept tweaking it, and then finally they were like, This is I think this is where it needs to be. And they sent it to Blake Shelton, and Blake was riding in his truck with uh Miranda Lambert at the time, and Miranda heard it, and she's like, I gotta cut that, and then the rest is his story. Yeah, what a song. Yeah, you just never know what a song is gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Right, right. Well, um, um, you know, we we've heard lots of those stories. Rob Hatch, uh uh the story, his very first number one um was uh had sat for five years. No, seven. I think it was seven, and and uh and it got to um now I'm gonna forget the artist that cut it, but anyway, he got a call like at 11 o'clock at night from this guy's uh manager and he goes, hey, whatever happened with that song, and he goes, he goes, nothing. He goes, Well, uh, this artist is interested in cutting it. Don't let it go. I want to put a hold on the song, and he goes, Don't worry about it. He goes, Don't let anybody else have that. He goes, It's been here for seven years. I cash you checks, none on this song. Yeah, and so it's gonna be okay till tomorrow. But I'll put it on a shelf for some. Yeah, don't worry about it. But anyway, but those those those stories happen, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Yeah, I love that. Yes, wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

And and those are the stories, like you said, that keep that keep you around. And and and and how many, oh, I don't know whether I can tell this story um in Vegas. I'm moving on, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Oh, I love that song.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

My uh it just gets me. So yeah, Philip White was the co-writer on that song, and I cannot remember who he co-wrote it with. Miss Shandelf, that's why I have Miss my producer back here. She'll give me the data. Um, but uh he was leaving town. He literally had had said, I'm out. He said, I have one right left, I don't even want to go. And he got to the right, and Philip said, Uh, man, I can tell you don't really want to be here. And he goes, I don't. He said, I'm I'm I'm leaving town. I'm I'm leaving Nashville. I'm giving up on my dreams. And Philip goes, Let's just go have some breakfast. And they went and had breakfast, and then they came back, and he had actually written the the first verse, but he said it was so hard that he said, I didn't want to use that as the first verse because it would everybody would know I'm talking about Nashville, and you know, uh you know the song, right? Right, and and he goes, So, but he started to play this little riff on his piano, and and Philip goes, Oh, and he said, What about this? And he said, They wrote the rest of that song. Oh, and then you know the you know the story. I mean, it's just what a story, yeah, and and what a song. Yeah, uh David Vinette Williams. Vincent. Vincent, excuse me, I can't read her writing. David Vincent Williams was the co-wright with uh Philip White on that. And what a what a cool story. But he said, I'm I'm out of town, I'm leaving. Yeah, and and uh um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

You'd be surprised how common that feeling is though. I mean, I have friends and I've had days where I'm like, oh, that was really, really hard, and I don't know what I'm doing, you know. And right you know everybody is like when you're making something up, you know, can I keep doing this? You know, but I have friends that have thought about it. I've had friends that have moved away, and you know what, they're happy as well. Like it's interesting. Sometimes you just gotta clear it out, yeah, and like go to the beach.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Have you did you ever have you met Stephanie Davis? No, Stephanie Davis wrote Wolves, uh, that was cut by um uh uh Garth. And Jess heard this story last year, but do you remember Stephanie said everybody has a screw you Nashville song, right? Uh-huh. I'm done.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

I don't have it yet.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

And and she she she called it Nash, she spelled it with a G, like Nashville. Anyway, but she and I think that was the song. I'm not sure if it was Wolves, but anyway, she said, I'm done. She said, I've lived in this shack, the roof leaked, it was just horrible. And and she said, and then Garth cuts that song, and she was able to make she made so much money she bought the family ranch back that they had lost. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

So um Wow Garth Brooks Ranch.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Yeah, well, the the the the songwriting world has changed in the last 20 years, right? Um, but it's still pretty good, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:24

It's still really good, yeah. But yeah, you could get a an album side, you could, you know, on a Garth Brooks album, and just from the sales alone, the mechanicals would pay you, you could buy a house with that.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yeah, it's amazing, yeah. Yeah, there there are yeah, you you just think about well Garth or George Strait. Yeah. Or Kenny Chesney.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Or Kenny, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Yeah, yeah. Tell us about your Kenny Chesney cut.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

That's a tough one now. Yeah. But um we I showed up to the right. It actually was one of those days when I was pretty tired. And it was but it was my first right with Brett James and Adam James as well. They're not related, they just both have that last name. Um, but they're fantastic people. And um I was nervous and I was like, okay, I have these ideas. I hope this is good. I hope I have what you know something that's gonna go well, you know. And um but just like a lot of sessions, you you walk in and after about 10 minutes, you're just loving it and it's natural and you're on an idea and it's going. But we just um wrote a song that we really liked that day. We we started writing this idea, and it was a waltz. So any songwriter in Nashville knows if you're gonna write a really slow song and it's also a waltz in this day and age, it's probably not gonna be a radio single. Like, they want to go to radio with like an up tempo show opener, usually they want to hear those songs. But we were like, oh, but it's gotta be this, it's just gotta be like this, and and um you know we you know, we'd all felt this before. I I had been going through a little bit of something, you know, um, and we it's a really personal song, I think, for for people, but um that day was just magical. Brett was incredible. Um and we finished writing it, and then Adam was like, we gotta demo this. And Brett and I were just like, Yeah, cool, let's do it. We like the song. I don't know who's gonna cut it, it's a wall, it's slow. But um, so we demoed it and the band that day. I remember walking in and it was Greg Morrow on drums, fantastic drummer. Um, I think it was Jimmy Lee Slows on bass. It just the band was magical, it was perfect for the song. I was like, oh my gosh, we just and it was a one-off demo session. So in Nashville, they do these like slammer demo sessions, and you just the band you get is what you get. But I remember they just nailed the demo, like it just gave me chills. I really was excited about the song um by the end of that session, and then our publishers circled around the song. Brett loved it, and Kenny got the song from a couple different places. I think my publisher sent it. Brett also texted to Kenny. I didn't know Kenny at that point. You know, Brett was Brett had had countless number ones. I mean, he's written so much with and for Kenny. Um, we went out last night, um so many songs for him, all the songs he loved. And um and then uh Kenny loved it. And long story short, he was like, Did you sing the demo, Kat? Because I I sang the demo. We actually cut it in in a girl key. I don't know why. Why did we do that? But anyway.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Did you say girl key?

SPEAKER_01 15:01

In a girl key, yeah. So because you it depends who you're pitching it to. Yeah, girl key, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Okay, well that's that kind of went over my head, but I didn't know there was a girl key.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah, it's usually B or B flat. Like it's it's it's a key that fiddle players usually hate. But um, yeah, and then Kenny was like, oh my gosh, I love this. And Brett, James, can you sing a sing a demo on it just so that I can in a boy key.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

In a boy key. Yeah, in a man key. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Girl key, man key, you know, it doesn't make sense. Um and so anyway, uh, he cut it, and from there we we were all, you know, we started all hanging out casually in different scenarios, and um Kenny had me come out and sing the song on tour on his tour a couple times, a few times, and I I was able to sing it at the the sphere recently too.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

Really?

SPEAKER_01 15:57

That was insane. I'm like, oh, what's happening above me? It felt like everything's have you all been to the sphere in the world.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

No, but I heard stories.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

I mean, it's incredible. You're just they just like some of these images will just turn and you're you feel like you're on a planet like spinning, and it's crazy, but um Brett is incredible. We've written Kenny's cut other songs um for this new record, and on uh Thursday when Brett had that tragic accident and passed away, um Kenny happened to be working on a song that me and Brett wrote. And so I was on a plane coming here, and Kenny called me and was gave me the news, and I'm thankful that Kenny was the one that told me because um it was like a special you know, Brett was like our bridge.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

So anyway, I'm just thankful for that song.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Well, listen, uh you have been so sweet, and um I know like all good girls are trying to get to church on Sunday, and we're we're we're getting close. Will you play me one verse from that song?

SPEAKER_01 17:15

I will. I'll I will I will focus on the music part and just not get emotional. I'll just try and get through it.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

I'll do the emotional.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Okay. Let's see. This is your uh this is cool looking. Is this the same one I can do?

SPEAKER_00 17:29

No, that's that's uh this one has uh Dean Dillon on it. Oh and uh Paul Overstreet and Eric Pazley and uh Billy Montana.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

This was the Las Vegas we started this at the Las Vegas Songwriter Festival, so but it's about full. So we're gonna have to.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Wow, yeah. Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

You're good. You're good. I can fix that. Here we're going to do it in a girl key.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Yeah, I'm gonna do it in a girl key, you guys. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

I could try it in the man key, but I don't think you would like it.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Do you need a pick?

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Uh I'll actually no, I don't.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Lately, uh for the last like year or so, I've just not played with the pick, and I think. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Knowing you, you probably got your toes in the sand at a bar on the beach in the sun somewhere, and knowing you, you got something cold in your hand you're chatting up a stranger without a care. And knowing you, you're still well and free.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Knowing you, you probably will meet so I kid on my breath to love when you do so.

SPEAKER_03 19:32

It was good.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Thank you for my guy. Cannot look at people.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Um if you want, you know what? Sign it up here in the head to talk.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

I don't want to start getting emotional. Uh isn't isn't music just such a gift?

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Oh next.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Oh, thank you. I'm I'm good. I'm I'm professional.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

She is a professional. I'm an amateur. Thank you so much, Kat.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

This is thank you. Thank you for having me. I oh yeah. And thank you for putting me early enough that I texted Carrie. I was like, is there any way I could do this?

SPEAKER_00 20:30

We want, we want, listen, say a prayer for the rest of us because we need it.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

I will. Well, I I'm thought with Brett passing, you know, it's good to, you know. Anyway, but thank you guys for Kat Higgins.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Hey, before you get out of here, we need a picture.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

And uh, and I need that mic back. Yeah, we need a picture and I need mic back.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Okay, yeah, there we go.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

I don't want to have to go to church and get it.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Church will fall down if I come back. This episode is brought to you by Tin Hall, Western style with an edge, bold design, fearless attitude, and