What's The Point Anyway?
It seems like much of the Western world is lost. The interesting trend over the last few years is that more and more people are working that out.
More people have worked out that endless materialism and chasing things that never actually satisfy us aint it.
So what’s the point of it all, anyway?
What's The Point Anyway?
What's The Point Anyway - Homeschooling, Giants, Flat Earth, Short Seasons, Mudfloods and an Earth that Never Ends with Shelly Sangrey
In this conversation, Luke McInnes interviews Shelly Sangrey, a homeschooling mother of 11 and host of There's No Place Like Home, who shares her journey from traditional Lutheran upbringing to a more personal faith, her experiences with homeschooling, and her love of digging deeply into conspiracy theories. The discussion delves into the education system, the rise of homeschooling, and the mainstreaming of alternative ideas, including everything from mudfloods and the moon landing to the flat earth theory. Shelly emphasizes the importance of questioning societal norms and seeking truth in a world filled with misinformation. Luke and Shelly discuss various themes surrounding faith, conspiracy theories, and the nature of God. They explore the implications of a flat earth belief, the theological significance of such views, and the challenges of understanding fulfilled eschatology. The dialogue also touches on personal experiences with anxiety that comes from focusing on the negative, the role of Christians in society, and the importance of questioning narratives. Shelly talks about how her views have evolved over time, emphasizing the need for humility and openness to new information.
Check out more of Shelly's work at her YouTube channel.
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for Riverside. Now, so when we finished, just you leave the tab open until it's all actually uploaded, which sometimes is like 10 seconds. Sometimes it's a few minutes, but I'll let you know. All good. Exactly. Yeah. Welcome back to what's the point anyway. Joining me today is Shelly Sandgray, who is a really fascinating guest because she's someone who I followed several years ago and then sort of lost track of. and then recently learned that she's come to a similar position, as me. basically Shelly's a mother of 11, which is pretty crazy and pretty cool. not only is she a mother of 11, but she's a homeschool mum of 11. and she launched, launched a YouTube channel, which became sort of wildly popular, popular called there's no place like home. which correct me if I'm wrong, started out as a channel focused on sort of homeschooling videos and then ended up. delving into the deep and wild topics of sort of truth-a-rism and conspiracies and Christian sort of truth. And now has taken another turn again. So I'll let Shelley talk about where that's gone. And thanks so much for coming on. I'm really looking forward to chatting to you. Opening question for you. What's the point anyway? point is living for Jesus, telling everyone about Him and really expanding the kingdom. You know, not giving up, not pulling away from society, but just expanding the kingdom and living for Him in each and everything that we do. perfect. What is, you know, I think a Christian will, actually maybe I disagree with this. I was gonna say a Christian would hear that and say yeah, they understand that, but I think many of us actually have totally different ideas of it. But someone that is a Christian or isn't a Christian, what do you think it means to live for Jesus? For me, it means to be the light to others who may not know him. And even to those who do know him, we are called to be imagers of God, first of all. And a lot of people don't know what that really means. So I think that we should exemplify the characteristics that we've been called to exhibit, the fruits of the spirit, and to not just live these things verbally, but actually in our actions showing people living by example. Yeah. And do you think, you know, cause I mean, the world is in an interesting spot and Christianity, think, I think in many respects due to its own doing and, perhaps a lot of us not living as the image of God, but has cop, a lot of criticism these days. Do you, do you think being the light and being the image bearers is all about converting people to the same beliefs or Or is it something different to that? Well, for me, obviously, I would love for people to experience the gift of salvation. And the thing is that I can only plant seeds. It's not something that I can ever force anyone to do. But even for those who do not take that route, I think that it's still important to show love, to show humanity, and to just. be empathetic towards others. And it's not always easy, you know? It's not like this is something that I do perfectly because I certainly don't, but it's something that I've been growing in and praying about. And it's something that I hope to just continue growing in for the rest of my life. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. think it's, I think the misconception is that Christianity is just like a cult and it's, you know, you're doing this just to bring more people into your local church. And I don't know about you, but I'm sort of on and off with even attending a local church. So if anyone thinks I'm a cult member, I like, I don't know who my cult leader, mean, I think my cult leader is Jesus Christ, but beyond that, I don't know what man it is. but yeah, it should be, it should be a joyous. people to be around. should treat, mean, you read the story, the story of Jesus and yeah, would be a great person to be around whether you believed in him or not. think, mind you, he did say some pretty critical things of people that didn't believe in him, but you read that and I think people can make up their own minds. So what's been your background, Shelly? you grow up Christian? Did that change over time? I know your beliefs within Christianity have changed over time, but how did it all start for you? grew up, my family is mostly, it's called Pennsylvania Dutch, so it's a German section of Pennsylvania and the Lutheran Church, the Lutheran denomination is very important to the Pennsylvania Dutch. So my family grew up in that church, but it was more tradition than it was a relationship with Christ. My parents, well actually my father was an atheist, but my mother, she would by tradition drop me off at church every Sunday. She wouldn't go with me unless it was Christmas Eve or Easter. And my dad was okay with her taking me there. He didn't have an issue with that. And then I would just go there to Sunday school and then I would sit through the church service by myself because the routine was that you had to go to what are called confirmation classes, very similar to what the Catholics do, catechism classes. And then after... a year or two we would become members of the church. But again, it was just I would sit there by myself or my best friend. Her parents also just dropped her off if they didn't go to church either. And so with me, was more it was tradition for the longest time. I got really involved at church while I was there, though, because I'm just I was always an outgoing person. So I was president of the youth group while I was there. And then later on in my 20s, I went on to become a Sunday school teacher and the nursery coordinator, fundraising coordinator. I was a youth advisor for the youth group, all these things. Except I realized that I was doing these things more because I felt like it was the right thing to do because I thought it was fun. I wasn't doing these things for the Lord. So eventually I, we moved about half an hour away. My husband and children and I, and by this point I was pregnant with my seventh child. Everyone always asks, do you have all those children because you're a Christian? Well, I was pregnant with number seven. when I would say that I was truly, you know, that God saved me. So we moved and we started going to a new church because my neighbor had invited me and that was where I actually understood what it was to have a relationship with Christ. So yeah. the, so was it, was that a feeling of going from it being a tradition to like truly believing? Yeah, I remember when I would go to the church that I grew up in, it was very liturgical. And I would try so hard to feel something. You we would just say the same things every week. It was very mechanical. Everyone in the congregation, they sounded like robots, to be honest. And not to be, you know, and I probably sounded like one too, because that's what everyone else did. Yeah. I wanted to feel something and I didn't feel anything. So I would, I was a member of a book club. would order books all the time and I was, I was ordering books on religion and even books by atheists on religion. You know, just trying to figure it all out, watching history document, history channel documentaries on, on the Bible and everything. And I just can, I can look back on it now and I can see the Lord, you know, kind of drawing me along to him. That was the path that, that I took. And then I got there. So yeah. what year was it that you had that sort of, you know, real sort of conversion experience? Yeah. Okay. So I'm just trying to, cause I know where you sort of ended up. so I'm trying to get an idea of like, what was your, what, what was your worldview around that point in time? Were you always, you know, cause you said you were sort of a youth leader. So you were active, you're involved. And then you started to mention a few things there that touched on your sort of real deep sort of yearning for real truth. Were you always a bit of a skeptic? Did you see things differently or were you were, you know, normie, so to speak? I think I was a normie for quite a while because when I was in school, I just, did very well at school. So I played the school game very well. And it was, it was actually homeschooling that opened my eyes to, all of the lies that we were being told, because I just, just looking into, I have to go all in whenever I do something. So of course I had to look into the entire history of education. Yeah. me and a lot of us are the same. My wife will sort of put her head in her hands when she hears you say go all in. She's like, that sounds like the guy I know. Yeah. And so that's what I did. found, you know, I looked into the history of education and I read a book called The Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto. And I was just like, what? When I was reading this. And that was when it all started. yeah. okay. And how many, so did you have, how many kids did you have at that point? And with that, did your kids start out in regular school and then you moved them into homeschooling? Yes, not all of my children have been in school, but my first six spent at least some time in school. you know, my sixth, it was just like a year of pre-K and then like two or three months of kindergarten. So they did start out in public school. My oldest son, he kept bugging me. He wanted me to homeschool them. And I was like, no, I have too many children. There's no way I'd be able to handle doing all of that. But then I met another family who did it, who only had one less child than I did. So I was like, okay, I'm going to try this. So I did it for, and when I started homeschooling, my seventh child was then about five months old. And so I just, and I was newly pregnant with my next one actually. So, because they were only 12 months apart. But yeah, I'm just trying to think. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I was, or either it was right before I started. I was pregnant with him, but anyway, regardless, I started homeschooling them, did it for two years, and then I tried too hard to make it look like school because like I said, I did well in school. So I tried to be a teacher instead of a mom, and that was a really big downfall. So I sent them back to school for two years after the first two years. Sounds confusing. So my oldest son graduated from public school. But then I took them back out again and all the rest of them that have graduated have been homeschool graduates. And I still have five children who are still school age. So they're all still being homeschooled yet. And so what does it look like? So, yeah, I'm guessing the way you've described it, the first sort of go at it, you probably got a bit wrong. Once you got into your rhythm with homeschooling, I don't know, what was it? probably eight, nine kids by the point you got into the rhythm. What does a house look like? Well, it took a while for us to get a routine, but what I found for us was that it was, I kind of did things in groups. had the teens and then I had the middle kids like fourth through eighth grade working together. And then I had the younger kids working together. And so they would do just their language arts or their, and their math by them, you know, individually, but then they would do history and science and everything else all together. But, I'm very, I try to do things very naturally, but we don't use textbooks. I don't like textbooks at all. I think they're very dry and boring. so the only really conventional thing that we do is there's just a math website and then language arts workbooks, everything else. We go outside a lot, do nature study, have the kids exploring at the creek, watch videos, collect things. And then we go to the library a lot. So it's not like we don't use any books, but we use... library books and books like that, not textbooks. I really incorporate my children's interests and what do they like to learn about. And I give them lots of time to explore the things that they want to learn about just on their own throughout the day. And so like when you started doing this, were you, I mean, were you like a total weirdo to attempt this or, was it, or is it, cause my understanding is it's a lot more popular in America. So where I am in Australia, look, five years ago, I don't think there would have been lucky to be 1 % of kids that were homeschooled. I know that has changed a lot and it's booming in the post sort of COVID lockdown world. mean, Melbourne where I was the second most locked down city in the world. And that woke a few people up and a few, it didn't, a lot it didn't, but it certainly woke up a few. So I know there's a lot of people homeschooling now. My kids are still sort of kinder age. We still plan to sort of send them through the regular school system. It's got its challenges and maybe that position changes in time. But I know in America, it's a lot more popular. Has that changed recently or or were you sort of one of the forerunners of that? Well, because of the church that I was going to, I actually knew a few other homeschooling families. And so I didn't feel like much of a weirdo. I think my extended family thought I was a weirdo anyway because of all the children I had. I was okay with that. But yeah, I never really felt like a weirdo. There are definitely more homeschooling families now. But to be honest, it doesn't feel much different than it did back in 2007 when we started. Yeah, so I started the year that... that I was saved. was several months later was when I started homeschooling then. Yeah. was that book by, was the guy Goto, I think was his last name. Yeah. So that's you, you, you first start venturing into seeing the world a bit differently, maybe with not quite the same rose colored glasses that you had prior to that. What were some of the lessons from that book that then you started to see in the schooling system? that are at least in America. So keep in mind, this is about the American education system, but it's based on the Prussian model of education and the Prussian model of education. They were, they wanted to create obedient soldiers. And so if you take it and change it just for schooling, the American education system was about creating obedient citizens. who would do what they were told. And in some essence, creating obedient factory workers, because this was during the industrial revolution. so the Rockefellers, John D. Rockefeller, has, there are some famous quotes of things that he said about education that people are like, what? But I think one of the, I don't remember if it was him, but it was basically that they don't care about creating scientists or men of learning. they want to be able to mold each individual's mind. You know, it's just in a very bad paraphrase. That's what it was. And then just that they incorporated even things from like the Indian caste system into the education system and how children are labeled. And once they receive that label, whether they're intelligent, whether they are dumb, anything like that, I'm saying dumb in quotes, these are their thoughts. And no matter what that child does then they're kind of slapped with that label the rest of their their school period Even if they start doing really well, they're they're stuck there. So Yeah I mean, you mentioned the Prussian origins of it. Um, that's what was the Prussian empire at 17, 1800s, I think was it. Um, cause I think like kinder, comes from the sort of the German word kinder. You you said in a German actually kindergarten it's, and that was their model, wasn't it? That they would, they would start early and the state would ensure that it produces people that it needs. And the state doesn't always. an oppressive state doesn't always like sort of entrepreneurs and free thinkers. No, nope, that's why it's so important that that's, mean, they use the, they call it factory schooling. It's kind of like, I don't remember the word, the term, but it's just, they do things a certain way, not only to make things easier for the teacher, but because conforming is very, very important. They don't like when people look different, when children look different. That's why. So many children are slapped with labels, like ADHD and whether they have this behavioral issue. And if you look, those are the students who are asking questions. And they're pushing back a little bit. So what they do is they kind of give those children a stigma, have other children look down on them because they don't want children to be non-conformists. So it's just the whole thing is just. And I didn't notice it when I was in school because like I said, I was one of those students who just did whatever the teacher told me to do. I was fine with that. But now as a mother and I'm seeing this, I'm like, it is so clear to me that that is what was happening even to children that I went to school with. remember things specifically like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I went, I mean, I was sort of like massively off the rails and sort of a rebel through most of my school and then switched on for two years at the end and was quite a high achiever and, you know, I've got a really good score and went to basically the top university here in Australia. Um, but then I wanted to, I always wanted to sort of make money and get into business. So we need entrepreneurship. And I always, I always had that view on school. I'd never dug into the origins of it, but I always thought the same thing. And I think people naturally get that, that it's like, I knew that school didn't produce entrepreneurs and thinking of thinking in the ways that schools thought did that. But I'd never, I never dug too much deeper into the why, but when you look into the origins of it and the people behind it, it makes total sense. I don't think it's a crazy conspiracy. think people can can see that in, you know, the evidence of people that are producers. I I went to a, you know, sort of inner city sort of private school here in Melbourne. And, I remember in, I remember in my final year, someone saying that, you know, what these private schools produce, if you want to graduate with a high score, you want to buy an inner city house, you want to work at a big four accounting firm. You want to be a member of the local sort of cricket, you know, local golf club and tennis club, then go to a private school. You know, it's, it'll produce a lot of people that look exactly the same and, uh, you know, high achievers so far, so far as I guess society sets the rules, but don't you dare ask questions or go against the flow or, or create things that that are different or not in accordance with what the state wants to set out to achieve. Yeah, so I honestly think that because I know how I was even shaped in school and I was formed into that conformist. And I think that it's made me rebel even more because I'm like, how dare you do that to me? So, so homeschooling is your first step into really rebelling against, uh, know, raging against the machine, uh, so to speak, where did you start to then go from there? Where, once you started asking questions about schooling and you're realizing that school is the big sort of side that it is, what are your sort of next steps? started looking into things like the Nephilim of Genesis 6. And just because a lot of the answers that I received in church when I would ask about Genesis 6, know, and they would say, well, those are the sons of Seth, when they were talking about the sons of God. so that so I went on a whole, I went down a rabbit hole with that, learning about that. And then I just, I just learned to be very, very weary, or wary of the news and the history that we were being taught. And then I probably stayed probably within those lines like the Nephilim and just being cautious of the other things that I was learning about. loved alternative history. Just there was a show called America Unearthed. And I know now that if it's on TV, he's part of the establishment. I know that now. but it gave me a lot of things to actually look into. that too, but then 2017, I fell into the flat earth theory. And then I was watching that and I'm like, how can people think that? So, I, yeah, and I didn't, wasn't like, it wasn't in an angry kind of way. And I wasn't like, oh, they're so stupid. It wasn't a belligerent. It was just like, how could people think it was more like a curious, how could people think that? And I was bored. So I just started watching those videos and I'm like, oh, and then as I'm looking into that, that's when I started learning about so many other things like what we can call the jabs, because I don't know how censorship, I don't know how that goes. So I started looking into that and I just started looking into all of the other lies of history. And it just it just seems like it never ends everywhere that you look. So that's like, so that's 2017 was it? Yeah. Cause I mean, that to me feels like it's not even 10 years ago, but the world's changed so much in 20, you know, 20, I think 2016 you had Trump coming in, you had sort of Brexit happening. I feel like the world of like 2014 is like unrecognizable now, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. 2017, I was still more or less a normie. I was always skeptical, but still sort of a normie. But people like you in 2016, 17 were, I'll just say it because I don't think this about you, but I'm just saying, I'm sure you've heard it, but like the total lunatics, right? And then now the last four years, the average person's like, You know what? Yeah, I can probably, I could probably believe that. You know, like, I know, like that was sort of the early days of the whole Q and Q and on stuff. And maybe I'll get some of your opinions on that, but, you know, the, remember seeing a interview on, I know, CNN or something and the lady asked Trump, she's like, so you're, you know, there's these crazy people that say there's sort of a group of satanic people that are pedophiles and that they kill children and that they run the world. you don't seriously subscribe to that or something there. And then, and I mean, even me then I would have thought like, yeah, these people are sort of nuts. And then now in 2024, you've got like the Epstein stuff and you've got the Diddy stuff and you've got all these and people are, yeah, it's not really that far fetched. It's, it's sort of on like mainstream news channels now. So what's, what's your last like eight years been like from 2017 up until now, so they're saying seeing these sort of fringe ideas start to become mainstream and looking really at the world and people sort of waking up. I think waking up is an interesting topic and we'll get into that with sort of how some of your content, but what's the experience been like for you? Let me just say that I was very happy to see people waking up because it would always bother me to see people just talking about everyday, you know, just things that seem to have that they were completely oblivious to the things that were going on around us while I was looking into these things. But there was a point where that's all that I did was look into this stuff. And I didn't talk about it with with other people like other than my husband, know, my children, like outside I would go to church. I would have never talked about stuff like that to anyone else, but it was a huge interest of mine. I spent so much time on it. And then as I'm seeing, especially since 2020, all of these new things that are not new to us, but new things, like you said, that are now coming out there on mainstream media. It's a vindication for me. But at the same time, I think that it's also at least made highlighted the fact that some of these things that we talk about in this truth or community. Some people pull that they take them too far. And the problem is that when you take things too far, that is why the rest of the people that we call normies don't want to pay attention to those things that we're trying to get out there because who's going to get the most attention? Well, the people who are saying the most out there outlandish things, which do have truth in them, but And so that has been a huge issue. you know, that's frustrating for me. And I'm realizing that at first I was believing all those outlandish things. And I'm like, OK, you know what? think I know that there are so many things wrong with the world and so much history. But I think that we need to start drawing a line on the really, really outlandish things and just which could be true. I'm not even going to say that there's no possibility. But we will more people will listen to us if we. if we learn to have a little bit of self-restraint in the way that we express these things. Yeah, yeah, I see it in a really similar way to you. I mean, the way my mind works, I'm quite comfortable digging into crazy ideas and not getting too emotionally caught up in them. I think a lot of people struggle with that. think they really, on both sides and the people are like, no, that's just a ridiculous idea. I never wanna even hear anything about that. as well as the other end, is you say there's sort of truth is it go down deep rabbit holes and just see patterns in absolutely everything and it consumes their life. And I think there's elements of trying to find all the answers to everything that's actually really harmful. think there's a lot of things that we just, we should be comfortable not knowing the answers to and that's fine. We're not meant to know everything. I said, but I actually just, quite love, I really love the topic of conspiracies. I think it's, it, it, it hits a piece of my brain. That's sort of like, I think it's fun to dig into things and try to find out the answers. If you can do it without conch, letting it consume you, it's really healthy. I definitely got to an unhealthy phase of it, you know, a couple of years ago. Now I'm just, now I'm a lot less interested on. I'm really open minded to anything. A lot of Christians I don't think are open minded. I think the evidence is that is on the show and the guests that I'll speak to and have a great conversation with and have completely different worldviews. But I'd love to, I'd love to devote a little bit of this discussion to digging into some of these theories and having a little bit of fun with them. I wrote a bit of, I wrote a bit of a list. I think we will have to get into flat earth because there's gonna be different people who'll listen to this like, oh, what on earth is the flat earth? So I think we'll get, and I don't even know whether you still do hold to that, but I'll get you to explain that a little bit. I'm not, but I've looked right deep into it. and I'm not triggered by it. I'm fine with this. I know there's some people I love and think are super smart that believe in it. And I think it wouldn't surprise me if they're right. I just don't necessarily hold to it myself. but what I thought might be fun is I've written a list of sort of conspiracy topics. Can you give me like a one sentence initial response to them? And then maybe we'll pick which ones we want to, we want to go into a bit more. JFK. That is something that I honestly did not spend a lot of time looking into. Yep. 9 11. That one was very interesting for me for a while, just when coming up with the theory that it was our own government that planned it. And then you start to see all the discrepancies, things that didn't make sense. But again, it wasn't something that I spent a whole lot of time on, but it was actually my oldest son who brought that to my attention the first time. He was in his 20s at the time that he did. So that's my thought for now. COVID. my gosh. COVID was, I believe, just a test to see how well everyone would just obey. also, I think, test to see how people would react to each other, how those factions, the division that it could cause, what the reaction is going to be. Because then having that sort of information could be very helpful for in the future, depending on whatever it is that they're planning to do. sounds very conspiratorial as I'm thinking about. The David Icke Lizard People. That is something that I also have not looked into that much. I've heard a little bit about reptilian and a friend of mine sent me an interview that someone who was a servant or I don't remember, she was some sort of worker, we'll say, for the royal family and had these stories about Queen Elizabeth and Charles shape shifting and everything into these reptilians. And I did listen to that interview, but I didn't. never really looked too far into it, although I have made a few videos on the possibility that they could be related to what is called the Nacash in the book of Genesis, the serpent like beings. And, know, there are also said to have been lizard people that lived under Los Angeles at some point, but then they will say that they just worshiped lizards. They weren't lizard like. But so I actually looked into it more than I have. a knife than I thought I did. Maybe just not David Icke related, but I've looked into the whole reptilian thing just a little bit more than I realized until just now. Space and the moon landing. The moon landing, think, is a completely ridiculous concept. The fact that they're trying to tell us today that our cell phones are more high tech than the computer that was used to guide them to the moon is just like, come on. Along with them losing all of the telemetry data and then them taking the lunar lander and then supposedly fitting the lunar module onto it. and looks like it was made of aluminum foil and like wooden dowels. know, I just think that's ridiculous to me. Bitcoin and cryptocurrency. That is something I know nothing about at all. what was the next one? Jesus as a Roman invention. that was kind of something that I looked. Remember, I told you that I was looking that I had books that were written by atheists. That was kind of the the idea of one of those books. But I don't I don't believe that it was that he was a Roman invention. Let's just put it that way. That was many years ago. like 20 years ago, probably, that I read that book. But I I don't there's too much other evidence, let's just say, on his existence as a real person, historical person, you know, so I don't. Yeah, perfect. And then maybe the last one, flat earth and space, or the shape of the globe in space. So my thoughts are that it is probably flat. I am, I would say 90, 90%, 95 % sure that it is flat. But if someone would actually come to me with some real evidence of it being spherical, I, you know, I would have to accept it, you know, so I'm not going to pretend to, know 100 % because I can't Although there are there does seem to be more evidence for it being a level surface And we'll just say more common sense evidence Occam's razor so to speak And so at this point in time if if that would be the case then space as we know it would not It wouldn't exist the way that we have been taught, you know Obviously there's a firmament and there are the Sun moon and stars up there, but it would not be what we're taught in science class. And that was actually something that was really hard for me to let go of because I told you that I was pretty much a normie. But looking back on it in my childhood, I was a normie who still liked UFOs and Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster. So I did like those things. So I was really into sci-fi novels and reading the book by Whitley Strieber. It's called Communion Units about a guy who's abducted by aliens supposedly based on a true story. So I was really into that. And I have a great uncle who he passed away many years ago, but he was a contractor for NASA. And I used to be really, I used be really proud of that because if you ask different family members, different things, you know, my brother says that he designed the first astronaut suit. I don't think it was the one that they actually wore supposedly on the moon, but it was maybe the first one. And then my mom, think used to say it was the first helmet that he designed. either one, I looked up his name, couldn't find anything. So I don't know if any of it is true, but I was really proud of that fact. then it was, so it's not like I had this aversion to space and NASA and stuff to begin with. I actually really, really liked it. And yeah, so it was, it was hard for me at first. what's your view on, what do you think's going on with like NASA and I mean, Elon with SpaceX and the Russians and Chinese, like what's going on with all the space stuff? I think that a lot of it is, used for black budget things. They're trying to hide a lot of money, you know, so they, they massacres billions of dollars from taxpayers every year. And so, I mean, they, could be using it for things like that. They could also be using it for technology that they don't, I'm sure they have technology that we have no idea what they have. The stuff that we have now, they probably had 50 years ago and we're just learning about it now. So I think that it could be used for that. And. Also, maybe a distraction. I know that there are a lot of people who believe that Project Blue Beam is going to at one point be a thing where they use this pretend alien invasion to... Some people think that it's just going to be an alien invasion. Some people think they're going to use Project Blue Beam to pretend that Jesus is coming back, but it's actually Project Blue Beam. There are so many different things that they could be up to. And to be honest though, like... I haven't really been up on this recently. know, I've just, I kind of go and kicks, you know, like I'll get really into one subject and I stick to that for a while. And then I move on to another one and stick to that. And sometimes I will go back to another one. But yeah, I haven't really thought about that one much lately. And so why do you think the earth is flat? Or why do you think it's most probably a level flat surface? Well, there are a lot of first of all water is level it it takes the shape of its container. I think water level is the most compelling that there's something going on. Yeah. yeah. And just the and the idea of, yeah, of water wrapping itself around a ball. And they say that it's it's gravity that's holding it there. But it's like, well, if gravity is strong enough to hold that water to a ball, why is it not so strong that birds can still easily fly, you know, and moths can fly, butterflies can fly, or, you know, leaves can just lift up and blow away. So just, you know, things like that. Also, the fact that You can see things that you should not be able to see. You know, the Chicago skyline was visible. It should have been way down if you would have measured, yeah, if you would have measured, if you calculate the distance behind the horizon that it should have been, it was not. Just those sorts of things. And I think that a lot of times they're very common sense things that we don't think about very often. know, just the idea that if you actually look at military documents, old military documents, it says that it's a flat non-rotating plane. So, you know, just those, those things. Yeah. And why, so who would want to, why would they make, why would a lie about a spinning globe be made up? And then who's behind, like who's behind it? I think that one of the largest reasons, and I'm going to use Mark Sargent's words, if you've heard of him, I don't know, but I think they could be using it to hide God because there are so many people that because of the whole universe model and planet model and everything, they think that we're just one of hundreds of trillions or whatever of planets that are out there and we're just an accident and we have no meaning. And, you know, it shows you those posters like you are here and then it shows all the other stars and everything. Yeah, yeah. And I think that a lot of people, and now that there are on the other hand, a lot of Christians who believe that we are special because we are on this ball and we're in the Goldilocks zone and God created all of these specific things just so that we could live here on this earth. So, I mean, I see that there are two sides to it, but I think that, and I also think that it could just be a mockery of God because it just seems that those, there are people who hate God and they like to invert everything. You know, we see that going on everywhere around us. And I think it's just another inversion taking something that he created and making it completely different to, or at least making it appear to be completely different. And I think that, you know, just the idea of, it being this enclosed plane, it just really helps to keep in mind of how the closeness of God, how near He really is to us. Yeah. So what about the idea that, I mean, you've lived in this world with your channel. and I've probably lived in the world as well, maybe not in as much a prominent way as you have, but, but I know a lot of these like quote unquote truth is that, you know, every conspiracy I went through there, they've got a thesis answer on, and they take the contrarian view on every single one of them. you know including the Jesus as a myth one right that for every person that comes to a view that the earth is flat I think maybe there's one that comes to Christ and most others that end up sort of with a more or less occult worldview around God. That's been my challenge with it is that like I mean Jesus came and his own people didn't recognise him. To me, I used to think this, but I now sort think the opposite, that the knowledge of God and the fellowship with him has never been about knowledge. How do you see that now that your position, your sort of eschatological positions changed a bit? Do you mean more on the occultic, like what people are saying? So when I was reading all of those books, and that was something that I looked into, even, there was another book that I read, it was called G period, O period, D period. I don't remember who the author was, but it was just talking about how God stands for guiding, organizing, and designing. And so that was just one of many books that I read that kind of showed all of these different views of who. of who God is. But I always came back to the evidence of, you know, the disciples of even historians like Josephus, who he was a Jew, you know, and he wasn't a Christian and he talked about Jesus. And just seeing him work in my life, to me, there's no question, because I have seen all of the way that he brought me to him. the that he called me to him through all of the searching that I was doing, all the seeking that I was doing. Pastor David Curtis on Brian Bible Church, I think, I like the way he says that, he says that there's no such thing as a seeker, because there are like seeker friendly churches out there. He's like, we don't seek God, God seeks us. And I love that. And I truly, you know, feel, believe that he did that. But I'm sorry, what was the last part of the question that you asked me? Yeah, I was just trying to get your thoughts around and I think you've, you have sort of answered it. And I think that's a really important point, but just this idea that I think the same, think God seeks right. That you're similar to me and people have asked me this question. I don't even know if I've got a good answer on it and yours might be similar to what you've just said about like, You're contrarian in everything. You don't trust any of the news. You don't trust any of these things. And now here you are trusting the most famous person in history, Jesus of Nazareth, that he was the son of the living God who came to redeem us. How can you believe none it? You believe that, but you don't believe anything else. And I can't explain it. For me, it's this. I don't know, it's this inner feeling that's different to anything else, but it's not knowledge. Early days when I became a believer, I liked to think that it was knowledge, but the more I look back, it wasn't. It's faith and that sounds very simplistic. what I truly believe is that first of all, God, he can preserve his word. So they always talk about people are changing the Bible and they're writing things that aren't supposed to be in there and they're adding to it and removing from it. And I first of all believe that God can preserve his word. But I believe that searching all of these conspiracies that I have over the years, every single one brings me back to God. Everyone. cannot. I even thought to myself for the longest time because I noticed that I don't like, I don't want to sound like I'm preaching on my channel because I don't believe that I should be doing that. But at the same time, I'm like, okay, I need to trying to sound less preachy in my videos. But every single topic leads back to God. You just cannot deny it. And then when I fell into fulfilled eschatology, was like everything clicked then. And I was like, this, this is what it all leads back to. So like you said, it's, it's a feeling, but for me, it was just like every, every path that I was taking, no matter which way I would go, it all ended up at the same place. Yeah. that's true for even things like, you know, your early, early topic of like looking at homeschooling and, and the schooling system, ultimately all it is, is another group of people trying to establish themselves as God. So, so they need to, they... And I mean, that's why, you know, in communist China and, you know, the Soviet, these sorts of regimes are deeply sort of atheistic because they need to be because the state becomes the god, you know, so there's, there is always an authority. It's just a matter of who's going to fill that void of being the authority. Yeah, and that was actually, now that we're talking back about school again, there was another quote. It was by a signer of the Humanist Manifesto. I wish I might be able to think of his name afterwards, but he just basically said that, what can a theistic Sunday school do for one hour a week when the schools have children for 30 hours a week? It was basically they're taking God away from these children because they get to have kids 30 hours a week, whereas, children are in Sunday school only once a week. He's like, what are they supposed to do? They have nothing on us. So, and that's a very modern way to say it, because that's not exactly how he said it, but that was the point that he was making. Yeah. Yeah. So what was, um, what's the funnest conspiracy that you've dug into? I know there's some that you've really focused on on your channel. The most fun, I think, are... Giants, but I think that you can also put in there like trolls and think I love folklore Types of things because I believe that there is truth to be found in everything Now which which parts of that are the truth sometimes is it's hard to sift through it and again That might be something that we never actually know on this side of heaven But so but Giants the Nephilim of trolls even looking at you know, the petrified Titans those sorts of things some of it Yeah, can just be pareidolia where you think that you see something, but it's not there. But other stuff you look at it you're like, wow, if that's not AI or CGI, then that really looks like it was something. So I think that's the most fun. If you if and that's actually the only topic that my children were ever interested in. Because I yeah, they don't even watch my my videos at all. I think my my 11 year old, she watched my video about the trolls. I think it was trolls, Titans and petrified giants. She watched that. but I think they've never watched any of my other videos. So where did, I'd love now to talk a little bit about where all this sort of truth of study and your faith combined in one and led you a couple of years ago, which is sort of similar point to me. And then I want to talk about how your more recent sort of understanding has changed that. you know, let's go back to 12 months ago and I've sort of saw it in your videos. I was sort of, you started asking questions on things and I love the way. You call your video series, question the narrative. And I was watching one recently and you made the point, which is so good. It's like, you're questioning the narrative. I'm not saying the narrative is wrong. I'm not saying this position is right. I'm just questioning it. And I'm asking, I'm looking at it with it, with objectivity. And I love how you've been able to do what so many sort of truth, people struggle to do and hold a position and then change it and say, actually I got that wrong. So about a year ago, before you started to move into sort of fulfilled eschatology, and you were looking at COVID and you're looking at everything going on, you're looking at everyone waking up, what was your worldview? What did you think was going on? A year ago, I thought that we were living in the short season at that, the short season of Revelation 20. And that was actually something that I learned about because I was interested in the mud floods. So I was looking into that. I was looking into Tartaria, that whole conspiracy too. And I'm calling it a conspiracy again. I'm not saying that it's not true. That's what I call these topics just because it's kind of like a way to label them. So I was looking into all of those. And then that was when I came across the idea that this could be the short season and at that point I didn't even know what the short season was even though I had been a Christian for years because it's not something that is really talked about in church. So I'm like, is there a reason for that? So I started really looking into that idea that we were living in the short season and then that was a few years ago though. at last year at this time I was still believing that but I was also starting to really understand the timing statements in the Bible and that was when kind of things started to slowly shift for me when I started looking at the timing statements because they do fit in with us living in the short season now if you only believe some of them. So that was really, I think that's where I was at. I'm trying to remember. think I was, I know I was still believing we were in the short season at this point last year. Cause that was my sort of route in as well that, and the short season, I mean, there's gonna be, I think, yeah, I think you sort of such, yeah, there's a lot of Christians that will listen to this and be like, you know, what on earth is the short season? But it's this idea that Jesus came in AD 70, established a kingdom here on earth, reign sort of for a thousand years, or maybe it was 850 or whatever, you know, whatever it might be. And then we're in the end of that in Revelation 20, where it says that then, Satan was loose from the pit to deceive the nations for a short season or for a little season and then the end comes where he's devoured with fire. So I was the same. So we're living in this world where everything and then it's self-fulfilling too when you look at everything because then you're like, there's deception everywhere. No one believes anything. We don't know our history. There's these theories of mud floods. There's some sort of big resets that appear to have happened with civilization in the 17, 1800s, which explains why no one really can trace their genealogy back more than a couple of hundred years. There's seemingly wickedness everywhere in the world. So therefore Satan's in control, but we're about, we must be in the final stages of that and there's going to be some major event and then Jesus is going to come. final time destroy Satan where the believers go to heaven and everyone else sort of goes away. So how then do you go from believing that and seeing all these things? I mean, you've run a channel digging into them. You know the truth of these deceptions to now you're like, we are in the kingdom and it's been here and Jesus is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. He's reigning right here, right now. And this is, you know, the eternal state, whatever you want to call it. How's that shift been for you? It was hard for me, obviously, at first, because at first people were just kind of leaving very polite messages, not messages, but comments on my video saying, you're almost there, you're almost there, you need to look into full preterism, you need to look into covenant eschatology. And so then, and then they would just say certain things like we are on the new earth now. And I would be like, that's ridiculous. Look around you. This isn't the new earth. You know, how can that be, you know, and there's all the evil that's going on in the world. And the thing is, is because I was still being with the mindset, the truth or mindset, which I still have, but with the truth and mindset, you kind of focus on all of the negative, like all you see, all you notice are the negative things going on around you. So you're not going to notice all of the advances that we're making and all the good things that are happening. And at the same time, if you have a large group of people hyper focusing on all the negative things, Mm-hmm. taking time to expand the kingdom because they think that the kingdom is already doomed. So that was really tough for me. It took a lot of humility to realize that I was reading the Bible completely, I believe that I was reading the Bible completely wrong. I was taking it too hyper literally, you know, it's something that, and I even go now to a dispensationalist church. Yeah. it's hard for me to sit through some of the sermons, but I like the fellowship there though. Yeah. Did they know it? Did they know your position? just Mike Sullivan was my most recent guests. I'm sure you've come, have you come across Mark's work? Oh, is he? Yeah. Mike's awesome. And he was, I mean, he went to town on dispensationalism on our episode. So you'll be the one that follows him. So to now think that you're, you hold a similar position to Mike and say that you go to a dispensationalist church, people will be like, Oh, okay. That's interesting. And not and but it's not it's it's a different like my pastor is a progressive dispensationalist, which is a little bit different. It's I don't know. All I know is he he I was asking him questions and I and he and he did tell me at one point that preterism makes a lot of good points. So he he did. So I talked to him in that way, but I don't think he realizes that I've settled on this right now. I he knows that I look in the things, but. He does, yeah. But anyway, I forget what I was getting at though. dispensationalism, like I think that they focus way too, like they read the Bible too literally. And you know, if you, I don't know if you've heard of the Left Behind series. Yeah. And I was really into that for the longest time. That's where I was getting my eschatology. And that is also super, super literal. And so growing, not growing up, but once I started going to these churches, If you would hear of someone not taking the Bible literally, they would scoff at it and say, well, you have to, you you have to take all of the Bible literally. And I didn't know any better. was like, okay, they said that the Bible has to be taken literally, so I'm going to. And I think that with the short season, you can easily fall into the same trap of taking it way too literally. And so it took a lot of humility for me to admit, okay, I have not been reading this correctly. And I need to maybe start paying attention to how the people actually meant it when they wrote it. Who did they write it to? And the people who it was actually written to, how would they understand this? Because it wasn't anything like what I was understanding. So that took quite a bit for me to finally realize. It's what do you make of the phenomenon? I call it a phenomenon because that's for me. It's so it's it's weird, right? That for the idea of fulfilled eschatology is joyous, right? It's, it's confirmation that Jesus was who he was, who he said he was. He proved the, you know, the prophecies that he said came true, which, you know, proved that. And then we we have now all the promises that were ever offered to the Old Testament prophets, everything that they were waiting on, everything that the New Testament writers could see was at hand. And yet you tell people and they're like, do not want to hear it. So how have you found that, because it's, When you, when you're into the sort of, there's something alluring about the sort of truth, the idea of, and people do it and I did it. You read the Bible as if you're the central character of it. And you're in this special generation where it's all about you and you get to live through that. it, you'd be, I mean, it's like the ultimate sci-fi novel. and so people struggle to move away from that even as, as appealing as a message is, it's like, it's like the most. like horrific message that you can deliver to most Christians. sadly, so you've, I know you've sort of seen that in your channel. I mean, you've got what just short of 80,000 subscribers. know videos two years ago, you probably had 15,000 views. Now all of a sudden it's like 10 % of that, isn't it? Yeah. I started taking this view. And I'm like, that's fine with me because I'm not going to pretend to believe something that I don't think is true. So I'm fine with losing them because I just want to speak the truth. Yeah. And what's been the biggest change in your outlook? Have you gone, you said, you you focus on the negative all of sudden, then you start focusing on the positive. Have you really seen the fruits of that in your life? Yes, I have so much less anxiety now. Like I just, I suffered from really debilitating anxiety for the longest time because I was so focused on all of the bad things and I was completely forgetting, overlooking all of the good around me. So now that I know that, you know, Jesus kept his promises and we are living in the new earth and you know, beyond this, you know, and I was talking to my children about this. When we pass from this world, it's like walking through a door. We are still alive in heaven. know, he is, he is the God of the living. So it's not like heaven is not for the dead. You know, we are living there for an eternity. How much better can you possibly get than that? So, just living with that outlook and knowing that I, of course, there's going to be bad things that happen. There are going to be governments that try to overtake us. And as I was just talking about in one of the videos that I just did, I kind of look at it as a two steps forward, one step back scenario. Because Isaiah nine, I believe is it talks about for the increase of his government and of peace. And I said, okay, so his his government and peace will increase. So if you take the outlook that on the new earth, everything is immediately perfect and it's paradise on earth and everything is just an earthly garden of Eden, it wouldn't need to increase because it would already be perfect. But Isaiah 9 tells us that it increases. So what I am looking at is the Bible also tells us that the earth will go on forever. His kingdom is forever. He has an eternal kingdom. So if we look at us now in position AD, we're still very, very early. And so we look around us and think of all of these things that are so horrific and so bad, but that's because we are so very close to 70 AD and we need to remember that I believe that the kingdom is going to keep expanding and expanding like the mustard seed parable. You know, it is going to keep expanding. And from where we are at right now, especially as a truther, if that's all that you look into, you don't realize how bad things used to be in history. Yeah, yeah. because you are very skeptical. What was history actually like? Well, you know, if we read the Bible and if we read even the things that happened during that tribulation, they were certainly a lot worse than what and like you said, everyone is so focused on us, know, our generation. What does this mean for us? But every generation has been like this. We are very self-centered people. Like we have always been that way. Every generation has always had the same outlook. I think that if you put it into perspective, we're very close to 70 AD if you compare us now to eternity. And I think it's just going to keep expanding and expanding and expanding over time. Yeah, yeah, it's a great point. think, you know, I thought the same. thought, you know, we, we must be in, if we're not in the final seven years, we're in the, we're in the years just leading up to that, you know, the preparation for that. And then I look back now, I'm like, how ridiculous were we? You know, like I live in a nice house with a family and a, you know, a silly government, but I still sort of do what I want to do. And, you know, I'm complaining about 8 % inflation and Yeah. And you know, yeah, it's sort of anti-Christian messaging on the news. I mean, go read the book of acts. I wasn't getting stoned. I'm not getting stoned in the street. Yeah. We've got a long way to go if we're to go back there. And I think some Christians, actually a lot of Christians, they're almost like wishing we do return to this like hardcore tribulation rather than looking at the good that we've got. But it's a balance, isn't it? I mean, you would be dealing with the same feelings as me that you can't unsee all these things that you once saw, but now you just see that you can't read the Bible into it. can't, you know, make that all about end time. the evil still exists, but actually there's a whole lot of good now. do you see it, do you see world history as sort of, I see it as sort of cyclical and progressive. Yes. I think Mike hit on it really well with his last message. I think we reap what we sow. So I think the church, the culture that we live in and the circumstances we have are basically our scorecard for how we're acting as Christians. If we have the power to rule in righteousness and if we... you know, reject that power and act like fools and, you know, look at all the negative and complain and don't be their lightbearers while the world is going to be a pretty miserable place, isn't it? Yes, and it's true because if you have that mindset where you're just, I think it was, was it John MacArthur, I think, who said at one point, yeah, and he says something like, don't polish brass on a sinking ship. Like, why would you do that? So basically just don't worry about it because the things are only going to get worse. Well, if Christians have that mindset, yes, that's what's going to happen. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy and it's happening because Christians are not taking our role as priests and kings, you we're not doing the things that we have been called to do because we are looking at things incorrectly. And instead of expanding the kingdom, we're pulling out of the kingdom. And what is happening is, yeah, it's going to continue to get worse if we do not do what we have been called to do. And so we have no one but ourselves to blame for that. Yeah, yeah, great. So what, what are you studying at the moment, Shelley? So you, you know, you sort of, cause I mean, the Bible just opens up, doesn't it? Once you see sort of fulfilled eschatology, then you're like, okay, now I need to look at this entire narrative in completely differently. And that, I mean, I'm probably a bit over a year into that journey. I, however many years I live will be the amount of years I spend still learning new things and seeing things differently. What are some of the things you're really grappling with at the moment? Right now I'm still really into studying more of fulfilled eschatology. I'm reading Christianity's Great Dilemma now by Glenn Hill. It's a good book for beginners, but it also clarifies things and makes it easier for me to express myself when I'm trying to explain things to people. I'm actually reading Armageddon Deception by Mike Sullivan too, as a matter of fact. But one of the things that I'm grappling with, and this is actually pertaining to full preterism is demons, you know, because there are so many people who say there is still demonic activity. And I swore for the longest time that I lived in a haunted house, you know, and there were things that I thought was evidence of it. And so that's something that I'm still struggling with. have a pastor, not the church that I'm at now, but another one. He was a missionary in Africa and he was telling us this things that he actually saw with his own eyes there. And so I know that Revelation 21 is it talking about or 22? It says that outside the gates there are sorcerers and things like that. Yeah. So that's something that I'm grappling with. I'm trying to come to terms with that because it says that Satan and his angels would be reserved for the lake of fire, but I don't believe that demons are angels. I believe they're disembodied souls of dead Nephilim. So which might be another topic altogether. So I have just I have a different view on Nephilim, but as you've said, I'm like, I'm just not, I'm not even going to get into this now. And so it's not even something that I really have been looking into it, but I'm still trying to figure that out. But I'm at the point now where I'm like, the Bible is not wrong. It is my understanding that that is having issues at this point in time. So but if the Bible says that I believe it. So my next episode, which I'm recording in a couple of days, so it'll be the one that comes out after this one, is the topic, we're doing like a little side study and the topic is demonic possession. So I have three guests. It'll be Mike Miano, have you come across Mike? you love Mike, Mike's really, really good. And so Mike's position is that... I'm pretty sure his position, I won't put words in his mouth, I'll let him clarify it, but I think he sees more or less that sort of preterist idea that demons equal idols. Then I've got Kirsten Barton, I don't know if you've come across Kirsten yet, she was also a guest on the show. She thinks that demons still exist. And then the third guest is Stephen Barton, who came on... who came on the show, not a Christian, grew up in a Christian church, was homosexual, left the church, became a minister in the satanic temple, then left that and now, and he's a great guy and we had a really good discussion, totally opposing worldviews. And he, so he's, I don't know, he would say his faith now he's working it out. You know, he doesn't know the answer to all things, but He has a blog called, sort of sacred tension. So he writes a lot of, and he wrote a blog post on demonic possession. And he obviously grew up his entire life. His father was an exorcist. So believing that he was possessed by demons. So I've got three different, totally different views. And we're just gonna. and see where we land on it. Not as a debate, more just like an open round table conversation. So, I think it's a fascinating topic. I probably lean towards the Mike Miano position that demons equal idols. And I think, cause I don't, I mean, I was the same as you, I completely believed in Nephilim being sort of the fallen angels. I don't hold to that view anymore. that changes. That changes a lot about how we think about these spirits, but it's a fun topic. So I'm looking forward to, I'm not dogmatic on it either. I'm, I mean, I'm pretty sure Mike Sullivan is absolutely a believer in your position on the Nephilim as well. And Mike's humble. think Zach Sullivan if you know if you've heard of Zach Sullivan. Zach Davis my gosh I'm sorry Mike Sullivan I'm combining their names okay Zach Davis yeah he has the position that you have that they are that they are idols yeah and it's something I have to look into more you know I'm just I'm at at this point I'm not willing to say anything I just need to look into it first I've, I mean, I was atheist for like 30 something years and then end time, then little season, then full prayerist. My days of saying I'm settled on something are over. If I see something that changes my mind, it'll change my mind. It's yeah, what do they call it? At this present time, this is my position and in two weeks it may well change. Yeah. And that's what's, you know, that's one complaint that I get from people. A lot of people on my channel are not happy. I told you with my eschatological position and they say that I'm wishy washy because I changed and I'm like, well, would you rather have me lie and pretend? Or, you know, if I come across new information, I'm going to share it. I'm not going to pretend. that I didn't come across it just so that I don't change my mind. I have to change my mind if I believe that I'm wrong. Where's your integrity if you don't admit to that? So, yeah. cognit. There's so much cognitive dissonance in critics of that. You're like, well, do you want me to be fixed on like, is there a point in time that you're happy with what my views are and you want them to be fixed or do it is me? Cause for me, me changing my position, like being going from atheist to believing in Christ for starters is like proof that I'm open-minded and we won't even get into the of the sovereignty of God and whether I chose or whether he chose but you know that and then changing positions like for me that strengthens my case of showing that I can study new things and learn new things but it's like people are happy with it until you start disagreeing with them and then they want you to just go back to what you were. yeah, that's what I said. You always want to question the narrative until your narrative is being questioned, then you're not interested anymore. But yeah, I have said to people already, well, you're calling me wishy washy now. But my question is, if I would have been coming from a different point of view and then all of sudden started believing your point of view, would you still be calling me wishy washy or would you be OK with it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. well, can't please them all, right? you definitely can't. Shelly, thank you so much for being so open. I've loved having you on, loved digging into your views and watching your channel now evolve and seeing how you're starting things out. So I can't wait to see where you go next with different things. And I love your humility in terms of the way that you've gone about it. what's ahead for the next year or two for you now. Yeah, channel and life in general. Yep. Can you hear me? You've just... your screen's frozen. I am so sorry. My laptop, I'm so sorry. My laptop randomly said that it had a problem and just restarted. I'm so sorry. Did that ruin your entire podcast? Okay. fine. I did. I replied to your email. I was like, we've pretty much covered everything anyway, but maybe I'll just, um, no, I'll just edit it and change it back in. Do you want me to, do you want to just restart that final answer to the question? What's ahead for the next? that I don't remember. just said, yeah, thanks so much for the chat. What's ahead for your next year or two with your channel and life in general, and then we'll end it at that. At this point in time, I don't have any long term plans for my channel. I still plan on having it. I'm sorry. no, it's, now it was Riot client and I don't even play games. Anyway. You point in time, I don't have any long term plans for for what I'm going to cover. I do plan on having my channel though. I'm just going to go wherever the Lord leads me. And then just life. just continue homeschooling my children, looking forward to the birth of a new grandchild, enjoying my children. I do I also run a biblical womanhood ministry at my church. So I'm going to do that as well. Continue with that, Lord willing. And I think that's about it. I'm just Go wherever the Lord leads me in every area of my life and hopefully I'm not kicking and screaming while it happens. Perfect, and it helps that you're not having to do all that whilst also planning for the final year or two of the world until it gets burnt up, Awesome, Shelley. Well, thanks again. I look forward to staying in touch and really appreciate all that you've shared with us. Have a great night. See you later. Bye.