ProductiviTree: Cultivating Efficiency, Harvesting Joy

ProductiviTree #19 How Frequent Flyers Stay Sane & Productive with Danielle Riddle

• Santiago Tacoronte • Season 1 • Episode 19

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In this conversation, Danielle Riddle shares her insights on the travel industry, emphasizing the importance of a human touch in corporate travel, strategies for maximizing productivity while traveling, and the balance between work and leisure. She discusses the challenges faced by digital nomads, the role of AI in travel, and the benefits of luxury travel for productivity. Danielle also provides practical tips for managing jet lag, essential travel tools, and budget luxury hacks, concluding with rapid-fire questions that highlight key travel habits.

Takeaways

  • Danielle started her career in travel in Australia and later founded her own company in Vancouver.
  • The human touch in travel is crucial, especially in corporate settings where automation can overlook nuances.
  • Transition time between travel legs is essential for maintaining productivity.
  • Companies often overlook the importance of rest and rejuvenation for their traveling staff.
  • Planning and organization are key to avoiding time-wasting during business trips.
  • Jet lag can be managed with proper hydration, sleep, and exposure to natural light.
  • Incorporating leisure into business travel can enhance employee satisfaction and productivity.
  • Digital nomads need strong self-discipline to balance work and travel effectively.
  • AI can enhance efficiency in travel but lacks the emotional understanding needed in complex situations.
  • Working with a travel advisor can provide significant benefits and luxury experiences at little extra cost.



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Have questions or suggestions? Email us at info@santiagotacoronte.com

Danielle Riddle is the co-founder and CEO of Inspired Travel Group, a boutique Canadian travel agency specializing in high-touch corporate travel services. With over a decade of experience in the travel industry, Danielle has built a reputation for curating seamless, personalized travel for busy executives and business teams, helping them stay productive on the go. Known for her deep expertise in executive travel planning and her passion for blending efficiency with luxury, Danielle leads a team that delivers white glove service for everything from corporate retreats to international bleisure trips. Under her leadership Inspire Travel Group has become a go-to resource for business looking to streamline travel without sacrificing quality. Hi Danielle and welcome to Productivity. Hi, thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here. How did you get into the world of traveling? my gosh, well, I started my career back in Australia when I was much younger than I am now. And I started working for one of the big box travel agencies and it quickly taught me about what I can do to make this better, what I can do to turn this into a more productive business and how it can work better, particularly for corporate travelers. And so when I came to Vancouver, just on sort of to explore while I was still young, I couldn't let it go. And so I ended up working in the industry here in corporate and then started my own company way back in 2009 with that focus of really changing this into a human-based philosophy for travel and bringing back that human touch and how important it was. And it was something at the time that was kind of people thought. This is crazy, but I think at that point when the pendulum is swinging, that's when you need to come in with something innovative and turn it back around. And we're seeing now that that's exactly what we need in this industry. And it's why we have been so successful in our endeavors. What do you mean with the human touch? I mean, everything has become very automated in our industry and rightfully so there's certainly a place for this. It's very important that we can have a cohesive relationship with AI. But what's happened is that, and particularly in the beginning, because the technology wasn't there, people turned to automation. But what that's done, particularly in corporate, maybe don't think, they think the opposite. They think corporate would be really easy to do with automation, but corporate is actually has so many nuances and so many complexities that having a human there to help you makes the world of difference, particularly in terms of you being able to have a productive solution for your company and an actual problem solving opportunity in the way you manage your travel. What is the least productive trip that you or one of your clients have ever taken and what did it teach you? the least productive or the most. Well, you can talk about both. Yeah, I think, look, this is when people don't take our advice, there's method to our madness. And I think it's interesting because we do see this. Clients will come to us and they focus on cheapest, cheapest, cheapest. And they focus on their people sort of becoming a number rather than a human. And I would say this is the least productive way to manage travel because if you only focus on the cheapest flight, you are going to be on three and four connections to get, you know, to get somewhere you can get in nine hours direct. You're to be tired. You're going to not be on your game. You're potentially going to hinder the success of the company you're working for. So I would say the least productive um trips are always those that don't take into consideration that sometimes even if you spend a little bit more in the beginning, you're going to save exponentially at the end of the day. So this is about education and that's what we. we're here to do really. What's one travel habit that completely changed the way people work on the road? I think that in terms of habits, having transition time is just so important. And look, this is something that I do regularly. I carve this into my calendar. It sounds small, but putting those mental buffers between travel legs or meetings, like 15 to 20 minutes, just to recalibrate in an airport lounge or reset after check-in, it just helps you stay sharp. It helps you avoid any decision fatigue. And you know, it really makes a huge difference. So would say make sure that you're planning that transition time very strategically. When you say transition time, do you advise for people to, particularly when they need to take long trips to reach their destination a bit before they need to work? absolutely. think either you have to have, have to look at this strategically. So depending on what the company's budget is, you have to look at how the best way is to make your, your staff member rested. So whether if they're flying, doing a red eye, for example, if they're on a business class flight with really good bed and facility and they can rest and they can be rejuvenated in some cases, the most productive thing to do is spend that money, put them in business class and have them go straight to their meeting when they arrive. On the other hand, if the budget isn't there and it not always is, flying economy but giving them the rest time when they arrive is crucial. Because if you arrive and try to go straight into work mode, you're sabotaging your opportunity there. So I think having that buffer day and maybe just spending the money on that accommodation when you arrive just for one night is certainly going to be a lot cheaper than a business class flight. So it's a good way to get that rejuvenation and that rest and know that you can go into your meeting ready. There are companies that have no business class policy. And I work with people that have reached certain destinations completely exhausted. Why do you think companies prefer to save a few dollars instead of having their people energized and hyper productive when they reach their destination? Look, I really do think it's just short-sightedness and the inability to empathize with the fact that these, this is people, we're human beings and it's tiring and it's stressful. And it's this, these decisions are often made by the people that don't travel at all. So in most cases, you're dealing with the people in the company that look at spreadsheets most of the time and everything is black and white. What's important is that if people can become open-minded, take the opportunity to sit down with professionals that know what they're talking about to help you actually make your team more productive and happier. This is gonna promote staff retention. This is gonna make people wanna come back for more. This is gonna make people excited to go on that work trip and to perform for you. And I think it's... It can be a very difficult roadblock for us when we go into these meetings. It's the biggest thing that we can educate them on. And it can be very insightful for people. And it can really change the way they think about things. What is the biggest lie people tell themselves about being productive while traveling? What is the biggest what, sorry? ah I think they to be productive, people think they need to be, they need to be on 24 seven to be productive. They need to be go, go, go, go, go. They think it's fast and furious and it's all about hustle. This is a huge misconception because the highest performing and most successful corporate travelers are those that have that strategic rest. So those that are sharp, those that are preventing burnout. So, and also thinking that the same tools and habits that work for you at home will seamlessly work on the road. mean, travel realistically, it demands that you have flexibility and that you have like a curated toolkit for what you're doing. So to be productive, you have to be planned, but don't have to be going a million miles a minute. How do you build a structure, this is perhaps for frequent travelers, how do you build a structure when your environment keeps changing every couple of days, every week? Oh, I think this is a big one for me because I do obviously I travel a lot and so habits are just so important and having anchor habits. So small repeatable routines that you do take them with you. I think the biggest thing is if you allow your life to be erratic without routine in it, you're going to start to really feel the pressure of that and you're going to be craving normalcy. And so even if it's, you know, a morning stretch or making sure You'd stick to your usual exercise routine. For me, it's hitting the pool. uh I swim and it's something I need most days in my life and it really makes me sharpen on the ball. So when I'm traveling, I'm very strategic about making sure that I have that facility available to me so that I can, you know, if I'm staying in a city, I was just recently in Sydney and I actually made sure I booked a hotel that was affiliated with a big gym that had a lap pool. I was able to get up in the morning, get myself into my routine, grab my coffee. I felt like I was at home, but I wasn't. these sort of things, know, checking your emails, trying to do it at the same time each day and unpack when you arrive, feel normal. ah That's the biggest thing that you can do to really create that sense of routine and that you're not so far out of the ordinary. We live in the times of gadgets. There are gadgets for absolutely everything. What do you recommend your clients to have in the mobile office survival kit? Yeah, again, I think like being organized with this, make sure you've got everything that you need. having a laptop stand is so good because then you can do whatever you need to do anywhere. ah Noise cancelling headphones are kind of a game changer for me. I know it's just so important whether I want to get work done on a plane or whether I want to get work done in an airport lounge. This is one of the one of the best things that you can always have a ring light. Obviously, if you're recording, I always have my ring light. and a wireless microphone. just, and universal adapters, obviously, this is a big one because we don't want to get stuck somewhere where we have to run out again and waste time. So just make sure wherever you're going, you plan ahead, know the requirements of that area and make sure that you can be set up quickly and have your little, like whether it is in your little packing cube, just have it ready to go so you can put it straight into your luggage and you know you've got everything with a quick checklist. What is the number one time waster for business travelers? I think without a doubt this is poor planning. if you do not structure your corporate trip properly, you will waste so much time focusing on fixing things or trying to get somewhere or, and this lost time, it really adds up fast. So it's all about being proactive. So you need to use a trusted travel app. You need to pre book all of your ground transport, make sure someone's there waiting for you. and consider the commuting times for your meetings. So what we always do with our clients, which I think is something people maybe overlook, is that if they have a meeting somewhere, we always ask where they're going or if they've got an office. If you're going to New York, for example, and you've got to be at a certain office space for meetings for the week, New York traffic, as we all know, is horrendous. You can be sitting in traffic jams, even just choosing which strategic airport to fly into New York is very important because of the traffic jams. So understanding that. And then knowing, okay, if your meeting is this address, I've got you situated so you can walk. It's only 200 meters from your hotel. You can wake up, you can grab your coffee, giving them the options that are right there makes such a difference. Because if you have something that requires you to jump into a cab, you've just added an extra 45 minutes to your day that you didn't need to do. So, you know, it's always optimizing for flow and not friction. That's kind of how we look at it. And I think really, really important. These things are not the average thing a person thinks of or even an executive assistant can think of because it's not their expertise, right? So really important that you think of the little things that can make minutes here make huge differences. Give us some advice on jet lag. How can you stay productive when you're falling asleep mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and you need to work and you need to attend meetings? Yeah, I think this is so important. Sleep, I think everything in our life right now, sleep is becoming at the forefront of what we need to focus on. And I think being able to make sure you're adequately rested before you leave um and keeping that routine is really, really important. I think hydration, you've got to stay hydrated. This is something people drop when they travel because they don't think about it. Being up in the air, even more so you need it. So I always travel with my little, My little capsule of electrolytes, I love them because I use them in my active lifestyle. I have them all the time in my handbag. And so when I'm on a plane, I can just pop on into some water, keep the electrolytes going. You feel so much better when you arrive and it really sort of helps you. Movement is always important and natural light. So when you get to your destination, the best thing that you can do is the morning you wake up, open those blinds, let the natural light in, go outside. breathe in the fresh air, it's gonna help you to sort of reset your circadian rhythms, all of these things, they're so important. And if you don't do that, you're gonna be jet lagged for three or four days. So, you know, plan around your energy peaks, schedule into those times when you know that you're gonna have the energy based on what the time zone is at home, and then keep the admin and the quieter work for when your energies drop again, and you'll slowly but surely transition into it. While I was researching for this interview, I came across the term pleasure, business and leisure. It was completely new to me. What's your advice on mixing? And I see this more and more in companies, people that go for work and stay then for a few days. uh What's your advice on that? Should people stay longer and enjoy a little bit the city they're visiting? Should they go back home? Yeah, look, pleasure is, it's so funny because it's one of those like, it's one of those really trending terms at the moment. But if, on a superficial level, it sounds very fluffy and, but realistically it's actually a really, really good strategic uh option for businesses to use. uh Really promoting this within your company is a great idea because you've got to think about it from the perspective as well of like, the economy at the moment and how it is a little bit tougher. If you can incorporate leisure into your workforce, people can go and travel for work and then they've got almost like subsidized travel into their program from work where they can then add on and have that experience of the area. They're going to come back from work even more positive because you have given them that opportunity to see that destination, to experience that destination. So they got to do their work, but as a bonus, they got this added amazing experience. And what that does for you to come back, you've got a newfound perspective, you have innovation, it just feels so much. And so I think incorporating the two is an amazing thing to do, but it's very important to find the right balance and to be intentional about it. So you have to make sure this is well. segregated and planned properly. It shouldn't just be a throwaway term that's like, yeah, tack on something to the end and we'll see when you get back. Because then the expectations may not be accurate. The company might think, oh, well, they're available to me the whole time now because they're working, but they're on holiday and vice versa. The staff member may feel obliged to work when they really shouldn't be. So setting expectations for pleasure is extremely important and being open and honest about it. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Slack messages keep coming and you are somehow extending your business trip. Is this an honest conversation that needs to happen between the traveler and the management? How do you truly disconnect when you have finished? Because one thing that happens with business travel is that it always or generally means more work. You have the work that you left at home and you have the work that you created when you went to visit colleagues or other people. How do you stop thinking about work and decide to, okay, now it's time to disconnect? Well, again, I think this is where before you leave for that trip, you have to be very organized and intentional about it. You have to sit down with your manager and say, this is what I've mapped out for this trip. I'll be available and obviously working these days. And then I'll be on vacation. So please block in my annual leave. Do not try to confuse the two by saying, I'm going to just do a few hours of work in the morning. Then I might go and... and like have some leisure time and then I'll come back. So I'll count that day, I will be available. The minute that you say that, you're working. So unfortunately, I think that if the employee sets that standard, then they're sort of making a rock for their own back in that and vice versa. If the company expects uh a person to travel that way, I don't think that's a realistic expectation either. So, you know, in that instance, the employee needs to speak up and say, well, I'm more than happy to incorporate this into my vacation. However, I will be finished at this time and back at that time. So again, it's all about expectations. And if they're set properly, it works wonderfully because you only, you have to think about as if the person is home and they're back at work or they're not. And so this is great for remote offices because people are working remotely anyway. They often don't even feel it at all if it is done properly, but. sitting down and having those meetings or having a schedule pinned up so everybody has it, making sure it's dispersed to everybody in your team so they know if you're available or if you're not, and just forcing yourself, and I think this is hard to do in general because of our access to screens and how often we pick up our phone. I'm a victim of this myself, but by forcing myself to incorporate like a really good idea is if you're somewhere that is really busy and hustle and bustle in the corporate side of things. What you want to add on at the end, you want to try and go the extreme opposite. So you want to take yourself into a situation where you almost don't have Wi-Fi or it's spotty and you can't do it. It forces you to have that break. So it's all about intentions and it's all about expectations, but it does work very well if implemented effectively. What about digital nomads? Can they, I mean, yeah, in terms of, you know, digital nomads, they spend long periods of time traveling from one place to another and they still working. And I've heard and I've seen, I've read in Reddit that a lot of people is giving up on the digital nomads life because they find difficult to disconnect and enjoy the place. how do you... disconnect when traveling and working is blended into one thing. Well, again, I think this actually takes a very specific personality. And maybe it is that people are realizing that they sort of took the approach that, this is easy. This is so relaxing. This is so stress free. But work at the end of the day is still, it's still work. And I think it's, can't forget that if we have deliverables and if we have KPIs, this is a part of life. We actually do need to fuel our our purchasing and our lives. So you can't forget that it's not just a holiday. And I think too many people go have gone into that lifestyle thinking I'll never work a day again. And look, I'm a huge proponent of you've got to do what you love. I'm very passionate about what I do. So it doesn't feel like work, but it is still a responsibility and a job. so if you're not good at structuring yourself without someone there, without the office environment, without the routine environment, it may not be the right choice for you because it takes so much self-discipline to structure in that time. The calendar of a digital nomad can sometimes be more busy and convoluted than that of a person who works a nine to five in an office and then takes their vacations. Because think about it, you are being you're, you're, you are going in a million different directions. You have to be very structured and organized to do that. It's like an ironic choice. It's like, I want to relax and take it easy and just live my life and wander. But how do you get the structure in there? Right? So a lot of people end up saying, this is like remote offices. People end up, it's not for them. They need the office environment. They need to get in a car, drive downtown, go to the office, get their coffee, have this set up. This is a personality thing. And I think this is why too many people didn't, wouldn't, didn't realize that it required that kind of attention. ah But again, those that are in that environment, if you look at a successful digital nomad, so to speak, they're super organized, structured. They've got everything down to their, what time they're getting up and having their morning coffee and doing their breath work and going for a walk and all these things. They're very structured. So structure is key. What is your favorite and non-negotiable travel application? For us, for me, it's Tripscape, something that ah we use to manage everything for our clients, for ourself. Everybody has access to it. Your executive assistant can have access to it, getting real time updates. This is just crucial. This is an essential part of corporate travel. If you don't have that on hand, you're going to run into mishaps, whether you like it or not. And also I think Slack, that's just become part of our life. I'm connected everywhere. know, you know, I've got my different huddles. I've got my different teams. It's so organized. It's so easy to know what's going on. I can see my updates very quickly. I know who needs me. These sort of things are just essential when we're traveling. Connectivity. How do you deal with internet connection when you need to send executives to remote areas or to countries that doesn't have a large coverage, enough coverage? Yeah, I think you need to make sure that you've got that wireless Wi-Fi opportunity or have it set up, whether you need to even, ah people will travel with a small, like a remote travel router. It really helps. We've used them ourselves when we've done our own retreats. So we have two retreats a year and inspired for our staff. And we take our own router with us to ensure that we've got the highest level of connectivity. Because if we go somewhere off the beaten path, yes, they will say, we have Wi-Fi. but I rarely trust it to the extent of the power that we need it when we're fueling like 10 or 12 corporate travelers at a villa. So these things are very, very important, but also vetting that accommodation very carefully. So read reviews, the real people advice is better than anything. Make sure they've got those business amenities. If you're in a city and you want to make sure that the hotel room, if you want to work in your hotel room, make sure there's a good office desk in there for you. to set yourself up um and have that wifi. You can set up your devices. um Again, having your noise canceling headphones, all of those sort of things are very important, but making connectivity is key because if you don't have that and you're out for a week, you can lose a lot of important information. yeah, getting your hotspots set up, having that wireless opportunity and even traveling. I know it seems extreme, but you do need to be prepared, like I said, Having a uh router on hand is great too. Let's talk about the biggest hype of the last 15 years, artificial intelligence. How is AI changing your business, the business of corporate traveling? Where is it helping and where it has been a flop? Yeah, I think look, AI, if you're not involved in it, if you don't embrace it, you become a dinosaur. There's no doubt about it. So for us, it's essential and a fantastic tool. you know, AI, the biggest issue with AI is how it's actually managed. So it needs to be managed effectively. It's not a simple point and click transaction because there's so many complexities and nuances to travel. that, and I think one of the biggest things when it comes to AI, it can be fast and efficient and get something done without you having to pay someone else to do it. However, without the emotional approach in travel, it's a very different situation. So people think corporate travel is not emotional. They would think it would be more leisure, but I would argue that it's actually even more emotional because these people are, a lot of our clients are on the road 80 % of their life. So as you can imagine, their stress levels are high. uh It doesn't take much for them to really get rattled and they have somewhere to be. They've got something to do. They've got to get it done. And it's very important when you're working with high level executives or any, any corporate travelers, they're there to get a job done. So when something goes wrong and there's nobody to call and you stand in a line at the airport and nobody can help you because the AI you're waiting for AI. or the machine did it and the machine says no, ah this is a huge problem. So what we've seen particularly in the last five years or so, our industry has suffered greatly from the implementation of AI taking over the human roles. And where companies like mine, which is a humanized approach to travel have really flourished is that those corporations are coming to us and saying, I need someone to talk to. We need someone to empathize. We need someone to help us do this strategically and understand why it doesn't always make sense in an algorithm, but it makes sense when you talk to somebody. So where AI falls short at the moment for us is that. However, we can use it so well as a tool to help us in the backend. We use it every day. So it's fantastic for keeping our the machine running and getting us more efficient, more productive in that way. And then our agents can focus even more on the human element. So if you use it properly, it can be highly efficient for you. It's just about making sure that it is being managed properly. So you can let the technology handle the routine so that you can sort of add the human touch at the forefront, which I think is really important. Does luxury travel actually boost productivity or is just comfort? um Look, yes, absolutely. mean, without a doubt, you can't deny that if you have a bed in business class, um when you're traveling somewhere and you've got a meeting to go to, you're going to prioritize rest and rejuvenation. There's no doubt about it. Some people think of it as just being a perk, but it's absolutely not. It's very strategic. um Access to lounges and lounge services, without a doubt, this is a luxury that is probably um underrated, I would say, as well. People don't realize having access to wifi, food, a quiet lounge, even sometimes there's the business pods where you can work. So even if you're not traveling business class, if your company invests in lounge passes for their stuff when they're traveling, this can make a huge difference to becoming high touch travel and like becoming more productive for their teams. So for sure, premium accommodations. Like everything, if you're more comfortable, if you're more rested, if you've got access to better facilities, you're obviously going to end up with a better result in the end. And it takes away a lot of the emotional stress when you've got someone on hand looking out for this, after this for you, which is a luxury in itself. You don't have to deal with all of that. So you're much sharper. You're much more on the ball without a doubt. And what's the most overrated travel splurge? The most overrated? look, there are many answers for that because a lot of people will say spending excessive amounts for business class flights is overrated. But then others will say it's worth every penny. But, you know, first class travel is extraordinarily expensive and I'm not sure whether you can justify the price. oh for the rejuvenation that you get out of it. like realistically, if you're considering business class or first class, I would say the price difference that you'll pay, yes, it'll be a lovely, it's an amazing experience, but it is just a luxury. It's not gonna help you anymore than that business class see. And even considering, know, compared to premium economy, some of the premium economy services are so good. And if you're very good with your routine, you can. arrived just as rejuvenated. yeah, think, I think going the extra all the time, there's a certain line where you don't need to go that far. And that also comes to accommodations, accommodation levels do not need to be luxury five star properties because when you're traveling for work, because the chances are you won't actually get to take advantage of a lot of those added added costs, because that's what you're paying for Butler services and you know, extra facilities and check-in counters that are VIP. This doesn't help necessarily more productive. Can you give us one budget luxury hack that nobody talks about? Ooh, a budget luxury hack. I would probably say the most important, the biggest luxury hack you're going to get is working with a travel advisor. And the reason I say that is because it's often very little cost to you to have an advisor on your side, particularly as a corporate traveler, but the rates and the perks just outweigh it and also their knowledge. So This is a luxury in itself. You know, get access to early check-ins or upgrades and there's someone on hand, obviously, like I said before, to take care of all the problems for you. This is a luxury that I think is the biggest thing that we get praise from our clients is just, it was so much more relaxing. It gave me the time. If there's a delay when you're at the airport and you see people lined up in that counter line and it can be an hour, an hour a half, bumped to a different flight. Sometimes that line, don't even get there soon enough to get put on the next flight. When you have an agent that can just reissue your ticket within two minutes, because we have control of everything for them. And we simply say, go and take a seat in the lounge or have, go and have a drink, have something to eat. And then we'll let you know what your next gate is and you can just arrive at it. That is a luxury that is really hard to beat. So I would say having someone there for you, having an advisor, the costs just are... negligible compared to what it is you're getting out of it. Danielle, rapid fire questions. Answer in one minute or less. Number one, aisle or window seat for getting work done. Isle, easing in, easing out, no interruptions. Yep. Two, one airport habit that saves you every time. ah I think probably the biggest is a TSA pre-check, making sure that you can avoid those lines. That's huge. You save so much time in the airport. Number three, best city in the world for a productive workation. um Coming from being in North America and thinking about Europe, for example, I would say a city like Lisbon is fantastic. It's got a great ideal sort of time zone overlap. You've got a huge digital nomad community growing there. And at the same time, you can work in a city that's affordable luxury, great culture and culinary scene. It's got a little bit of everything for you. Number four, the most common travel mistake that wrecks productivity. I would say overpacking your schedule and not being planned. Five, if you had to pick one golden rule for travel and work harmony, what is it? I think I would say you should plan your travel like you plan your meetings. So you have to be intentional and you have to be and be flexible. So always allow for contingency because travel is so unpredictable. So plan, plan, plan. Let's give some final advice to our audience, Danielle. What's one simple change listeners can make today to get better at working while traveling? Um, I think I would say, you know, be sure to audit your next trip like a pro. Um, look at where you can build in rest. Like I said, have those, you know, prep better transitions and upgrade your environment to support how you can actually work best. So stick to your habits and make sure it's all about the timing. So really put those buffers in and, and yeah, make sure that you've got that rest and rejuvenation. Where can our audience avail your services, get in touch with you, and know more about what you do? Sure, um you can visit our website at inspiredtravelgroup.ca and also visit us on LinkedIn. we'd love to connect, especially for those looking to rehumanize the way they organize business travel. That's what we do. And we're to focus on productivity at the end of the day. Danielle, I want to thank you for a hack packed interview. So many things to take away and many things to consider that I will consider on my next business trip. And I wish you the best. We wish you the best and let's stay in touch. Yes, thank you so much. It was great to chat and hopefully, yeah, I've given you some advice that people can take forward and make things easier and more productive for them in the future. Thanks. Bye bye.