The CEO Whisperer: Why Strong Leaders Break | ft. Victoria Pelletier

We talk a lot about "resilient leaders," but if I'm honest, most of what I see in companies is not resilience, it's suppression. People white‑knuckling through transformation, pretending they're fine, then crashing later. And the company pays for it in rework, politics, and quiet quitting. Today I want to talk to someone who has every excuse to be bitter and burned out, yet somehow used trauma, discrimination, and nonstop pressure to become the person CEOs call when their culture and strategy are falling apart.

My guest is Victoria Pelletier, a 20+ year corporate executive, board director, #1 best‑selling author, and keynote speaker often called the "Turn Around Queen" and the "CEO Whisperer." She became a COO at 24, President by 35, and CEO at 41, while leading more than 40 transformations across industries at companies like IBM, Accenture, and Kyndryl. When executive teams get stuck between strategy and execution, Victoria is the one they bring into the room.

Speaker Links

https://youtu.be/xFpknOCFMOg?si=iQagqUlimx_VFpz0

https://www.linkedin.com/in/victoriapelletier/

https://victoria-pelletier.com/

Takeaways

• Healthy resilience involves understanding, processing emotions, and strategic intentionality.
  
  
• Authentic leadership requires vulnerability, values, and challenging the status quo.
  
  
• Storytelling transforms strategy into action and builds trust.
  
  
• Creating psychological safety and empathy fosters resilient teams.
  
  
• Being true to oneself and practicing self-care are vital for sustained leadership.
  
  

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Transcript

2:09

Victoria Pelletier, welcome to Productivitree! Thanks for having me, I'm happy to be here. Victoria, your TED Talks about resilience have millions of views. You are a recognized figure in the field, but when was the time that you decided that you will devote a big part of your life to helping others become more resilient? I think there's sort of an unofficial unofficial date for that in that I think I've always tried to support others in the ways that I could, whether that was tutoring kids was when I was in school. I've been very actively working around diversity in the workplace and communities long before we were sort of talking about DEI. But there was a light bulb moment for me how my own story of trauma and how I developed resilience, I started to share it much more publicly and recognizing that it could really support others. And that was probably, well, my mid to late 20s, I started to have an inkling of it. And I think in my early 30s, and I'm almost 50 now, was that moment for me where I made a decision, I do it. a of public speaking. I was speaking for International Women's Day ah and I made a decision to share my story publicly. I'd shared it in smaller settings and at that point and the lineup of women predominantly who were at that event to come and talk to me afterwards, I realized the power in the connection and sharing the story and that was a moment where it changed forever in terms of how I was going to focus on helping others be resilient by telling my story, by supporting them through kind of the journey and how I learned to do it in a little bit more healthy manner. Your story is no shy of climbing Mount Everest or going to Mars because you've been a woman, LGBTQ +, you were young already in very senior rooms. Which one of those was the hardest wall to hit? Which one was the one that you said, wow, this is the biggest hurdle that I need to go through? Hmm. I think it's dependent on the situation. However, probably the one I faced the most difficulty with for a long period of time, and now that I've told you how old I am or I'm soon to be, but it was being a young female executive. You when I stepped into that first role, I was the only woman, but I was the youngest by almost two decades. So questioned. around what experience I had, had I earned a seat at the table kind of thing. So interestingly, and not many women in particular would do this, I lied about my age, making myself older for years, probably until I got to at least 30, because people questioned me all the time. And so that was a hurdle I had to experience many, many times over. I'm used to being the only woman or... one of the only women in the room. I worked in professional services and in technology for a lot of years. So I tend to be one of few. Your TED talk, which I recommend every listener to go through, opens up with a gut-wrenching quote from your biological mother. I'm not going to rip it off here because I really want people to go and listen to it. But has resilience changed as to it means for you today compared with what it means back then? Absolutely. know, for me, you know, resilience was the ability just to move forward despite the challenges, adversity, or the trauma that I'd experienced. And I wouldn't say I wore it like a badge of honor, but I know others do. And so that was it for me. It's like, okay, well, I can just move forward. This is just one more thing. For me, the definition of resilience, actually, I call it healthy. resilience because I think many people wear the badge of armor just as though they have this shield of protection and just continue to move through it all. Yet they never spend time kind of processing the pain, the emotion, and recognizing that in many cases it impacts their ability to move forward. And so for me, it's very different. So I talk in that that Ted talk about multiple steps. that I believe are required to develop that healthy level of resilience versus the hardened mask or armor that people wear. You mentioned healthy resilience. How is it different? You gave a clue, a hint here, processing. How is it different from just that armor, that shield that you mentioned? I think you need to spend some time in it. And by that I mean understanding, in lots of cases, people cannot control the challenge or the adversity that's come their way. In other instances, they can. In difficult relationship situations or work situations, sometimes they're in a position to control that. So sitting in it means... being really self-reflective of how you got to that point. If it was something that was in your control, what can you do to prevent that from occurring again in the future? But it's also allowing yourself the opportunity to experience the emotion around it, whether it's anger, it's sadness, whatever it is. And so when I talk about some of the steps of healthy resilience, I say that there are five. One, there's always clarity around the goal or objective you have for yourself and where you want to move towards. What is your North Star? And you're going to have many of them, right? Whether it's around, you know, a career goal, a relationship goal, financial goal, et cetera. But the other ones, and this is where you need to exercise the muscle and practice it, is that level of self-reflection and awareness, which sometimes is difficult for people to look critically at the mirror themselves. And sometimes they have blinders on. So then... I also talk about one of the steps is surrounding yourself with a community of people that will help you. Sometimes they're your cheerleaders to support you on that journey. Other times it's those who are gonna be helping you remove the blinders, see some of the things that you can't or won't. And other times it can be professionals, right? If you need to see a psychiatrist, a psychologist. a career counselor, whatever it is, so surrounding yourself with those people. And then another one of the steps is then being what I refer to as strategic intentionality. So building a strategy to move past the trauma or challenge anchored back to that goal I said that you have for yourself. And that means that the thoughts and the language and the actions you take need to be aligned to that strategy with intention, which is uncomfortable for many. but step into that zone of discomfort. Victoria, talking to you is nice. What I mean is that you come across and also in your talks as a very kind and close person with everything you have gone through. How do you process hardship without becoming hardened or rough? Yeah, that, I, for me, it's, it's a choice. I, I was, I was a tough, tough kid, um, and young adult. You know, I, when my adoptive mother took me, we were walking on the street at one point, there were some construction workers and they said, Oh, aren't you the cutest little thing? And I said, and I won't swear, but at four years old, I swore I'm like, what the heck are you looking at? Insert another word there. Four years old, like I was tough. um And I used to run away if I feared I was going to be hurt. I chose not to put myself in that place and or push people away. But at some point I made the choice that I may get hurt again. But if you do not put yourself out there, you don't have the opportunity to experience. great relationships, great love. I remember being in a relationship with a partner who after about a little over two years, he cheated on me. And I went back to dating relatively soon afterwards. And I remember one of my friends questioned me about it. And I'm like, if you don't put yourself out there, you won't experience love. And so that's the choice I've made. I also approach people One, from a place of generosity and not greed. And I'm always hopeful that it's reciprocated. So whether that's at the time I give or invest, even from a networking standpoint, but also I give people trust until there's a reason not to. And again, that's my choice. And some people would say that that opens you up and it creates risk to hurt, pain, whatever. But that's the choice I've made. I much prefer I'm happier. to do that and engage that way. Let's talk a bit about work, corporate culture, and what do you think is a belief leaders consistently get wrong about resilience in their teams? I think they, one, not building the muscle around it, around being resilient. And a big part of that is about psychological safety and creating a space where it's okay to fail. you know, and get back up again. And in building that trust in that safety, a significant part of that comes, you know, with the leader themselves being incredibly empathetic. It means being, demonstrating vulnerability, because in that is builds trust. And that was something I had to learn because again, as I've described, I wasn't always like this. wore the armor, I wore the protection. I didn't want to show my emotions or vulnerability. I thought it was weak. And what I've realized is it is so incredibly powerful and it's anything but weak and it builds the trust. to create a much more resilient team and workforce. Do think companies reward their wrong kind of resilience more like quite suffering, swallowing things instead of vulnerability, reinvention, processing stuff? I do. And I don't think it's always done with poor intention. I think, you for many leaders, there's, they'll say, there's never enough time. And it's just like the next thing, next thing. So let's just move forward. And so again, going back to not giving their team themselves the time to process it, to start to think about what intention they have. And so they just move forward and it gets lost. So again, I don't think it's all done with poor intention, but um Sadly, I think it's like, okay, well this happened. Let's just move forward and they forget to take that time. You've been recognized globally for your impact on diversity, equity and inclusion, DEI. Many people still don't get it. So what does resilient leadership look like through a DEI lens? It, I just talked about the sense of belonging and safety. And if someone feels they can show up their whole selves, true selves in a workplace, and that means the recognition of the diversity of... And I say of dot dot dot because it means so many things. is, you in my case, I came out as an openly queer woman at 14, right? I've dated men and women my entire life. And so whether it's your sexuality, whether it is race, whether it's religion, whether it's lived experience, whether it's trauma, we all, you know, bring diversity of all these things to the table. And when... leaders in organizations can create, again, a sense of belonging where that is celebrated and welcomed and people recognize they don't need to hide those aspects of themselves. That creates such magic within an organization. mean, many times it's seen as like, a tick in the box around who we're gonna hire within the organization. they look. different, right? They come with the visible sort of diversity metrics. But I, you know, I come with data, you know, to leaders to say like, it is proven that diverse teams, because of that sense of belonging, it creates higher engagement levels, productivity, that drives the results you're looking for. So they're not separate, like one fuels the other. You have a big presence in LinkedIn. Your personal brand is huge. Does personal brand and the way you portray yourself play a role in resilience? it, can, it can. So definitely my brand, one of the aspects of my brand is about being resilient. but the, the part that, and I'll coach people on is the, on the facade of a brand and whether that's resilience or something else, there's, I, I want to encourage people to be incredibly authentic. um in how they show up there. Your brand is not you portraying some other caricature of yourself. It is about you and the aspects of you that make you you. m That in itself creates a resilience from a career standpoint. And what I would tell people is to be, again, the phrase strategic and intentional around how you build it, the stories you tell. that then can be enduring and don't necessarily change unless you do. You can pivot, you can grow, you can decide to do something different. But that in itself, that level of consistency builds a resilience as people come to know who you are, even if it's the digital, they haven't met you in real life yet, who they see you on screen so that when they meet you in real life, they're like, it's exactly who I thought it was. You mentioned authenticity. How, for someone like you, and let's extrapolate it to not only boardrooms, but how do you stay authentic when there are high stakes decisions at hand? Humans tend uh to group think, you know, to blend in, to not potentially disappoint anyone. How do you manage Victoria to stay authentic and loyal to yourself? I don't know any other way, to be honest. So I, you know, I am incredibly values driven. I want to do the right thing. I'm not saying I don't sometimes make trade-offs in business. I worked in large publicly traded companies, quarter to quarter results. And so sometimes there's some trade-offs, but never from a values perspective. You know, I had someone recently tell me that she had been given advice by a CEO that she worked for around. em or asked a question, do you want to be right or do you want to be rich? And I don't believe one, you trade one for the other. So for me, being authentic, and being who I am means I am going to challenge the status quo, even if it's not favorable, because I want to move us to new heights, because I want us to be bold, I want to be different. And if no one else is going to say it, then I will and call me, you know, a distr, distr, distrber for that, that that's fine, but know that it comes from a very good place of intention in terms of progress, uh, and power for, you know, our employees, for our customers more broadly. You said values, Victoria, and I love what you just said about looking for new heights. Beautifully said. And I just realized I've been repeating this question probably in the last four or five episodes. With all the short-termism, fake it till you make it type of lifestyle we're having today, are we amidst the values crisis? It certainly feels that way. uh It does. We won't get in any political conversation necessarily here, but uh I I reflect on what's happening in the world right now. And I ask myself, why? Like, what are we accomplishing here? And like, was this the right thing to do? And what is right? and connected going back to... to values. we making some of these decisions for money, for some? So it saddens me quite frankly to see where we sit today, because I'm not sure the decisions of leaders, and I'll use air quotes, leaders being whether they be political or business, are all for the right reasons. Let me try to get a prediction from you. What do you think would it take to recover human values and start or continue or go back to make decisions based on growth and not necessarily on personal interests or whatever other reasons? Where are we heading? I don't know where we're heading. Like I said, it saddens me the state that we're in now. I feel like the pendulum swung, and maybe on some things it was too far one way, but it swung back so far the other, even just take diversity, for example. The rollbacks that have happened in corporate America in particular saddens me. But to your question of what do we need to do, I am not a religious person at all. However, you know, the philosophy of like, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Like just treating people with respect, treating people the way you want to be treated. Like, I think it's as simple, as simple as that. Like get back to human decency as we talk about like, you know, values and kindness. Like we're just, a lot of the world is not right now. Victoria, when you look back at the early version of yourself, what did she believe about leadership that you know now it was completely wrong? you know, a couple of things, one leadership, in my mind and success in leadership was moving higher up the corporate ladder, you know, more responsibility, more people, more money, all the things. And so that was a bit of a definition of success for me. So that's evolved and changed very much. So, but also as a leader, I, in part, because I was a young female leader entering. executive roles, and I questioned my seat at the table, ah I showed up with very little emotion or vulnerability. I believed it was a sign of weakness. And so I didn't, even though I'm an extremely emotional individual, like I cry at, you know, the Humane Society commercials, like I'm so quick to an emotion. I never showed that because I thought that was weakness. So as we spoke earlier, like the ability to... process, to allow the team to process, feel the emotion as we then plan on how we move forward. That was a big misstep for me as a leader that I had to consciously change and start to do and show up differently. You often say that storytelling is how strategy becomes action. Can you unpack this with a concrete example? How do you make strategy become action through stories? And feel free to tell us a story. um I think um storytelling has been so important for me. So I was an actor when I was young. I mean, that is about telling stories. My favourite part of acting, even though I've done some commercials and other pieces, stage work. You were on stage conveying a story through words, through your actions, through your face. And so I've known how powerful that is. And so I've brought that into the corporate world. I got recruited out of banking into the world of professional services, 25 or 26 years ago, and trying to convince, you know, other companies to buy products or services. But it's about creating the need, that the story arc. And so for me, like it's in everything I do in every conversation around um you know, setting the stage for the problem statement, you know, and ultimately like, you know, the hero who comes and, but putting your clients who you're engaging with, like in that story themselves. And so it's just, it's a way. So I get asked to all the time, even if I'm not like going to be directly leading an engagement or my team might be part of it to sit in front of our clients. to do that storytelling, to contextualize, to bring some emotion to it. So it's highly, highly powerful and has been a big part of my success. But go back to brand your storytelling authentically about who you are, but you figure out what aspects of those do you wanna tell. So I encourage people to read, there's a few key storytelling methods that can help. And not just in business, I I think in life, people connect. to engage stories. Let's do a little bit of a role play here. I'm gonna play the skeptical VP. Okay. Victoria, that's great all you're saying, but listen, I don't have time to be everyone's therapist here. Resilient and all these things is great, but what I need you to do is to hit the numbers. How do you reply to that? First of all, I'll tell you, I hate role play as much as I was when I was younger, although actually I realize how powerful it is and I end up doing it with my team a lot. for one, I always try and understand what motivates the people. So if you're familiar with the disc assessment or Myers-Briggs or whatever, but I like the disc assessment. I'm a... I'm a high DI, so like I'm dominant, I drive, but this level of influence. So it's again, it's that blend of like storytelling with facts and figures. So when you say that to me, I picture it's a D personality style on the other side. And so like they want short, they want succinct, they want facts, they want data. And so VP says that to me, it's like, I understand what you're saying. Let me start. Here's where I am with the numbers, I've exceeded, like, and here's where I'm projected to go. But then if I feel like there's an opportunity, again, I need to read out the situation to address that whole, you we don't have time for resilience. However, I want to tell you how I delivered these numbers. And I did this with the team and I developed this. And because of that, it's the reason I drove those numbers. great answer. You talk a lot about complexity and translating it, translating complexity into clarity. I figured most executives think they're already doing that. So how do you actually test whether they are or they're just speaking clearly to themselves but nobody is getting what they're trying to say? so I'm very focused on, like outcomes. So clarity, like let's, let's stop all the fancy speak. And I literally was having a conversation with some of my own team members, around like the coming up with, with new words and vernacular. I'm like, sounds really cool and sexy. However, the goal of communication, my, it's funny. I'm gonna, I can't believe I'm saying this to my husband. If he at all is hearing it, he's going to laugh. He says all the time. English is not his first language, it is French. And so sometimes things come out in interesting ways. I'm like, so if I correct him or make a joke, he said, the goal of communication is to be understood. Did you understand me? So I was like that with my team. They're great fancy words, but like the industry or our colleagues know it in this format. And so when we think about like how to create clarity, Let's speak in the language of the audience that we're engaging with. Let's be clear on what the outcomes are to be delivered. know, how, like even if you're coming into an organization or maybe you're selling to a client, how is success measured? You know, I often actually ask that in the B2B world, like, tell me how you're gonna get measured if we're delivering against this. How do I make you successful? How do you get your bonus? Right, like just that kind of thing, bring it down to that level. And so again, speak the language of the audience that you're engaging with in a way that there is absolute clarity on what we are looking to achieve or the outcomes we're looking to deliver together. Let's give some advice for the listener. What are your non-negotiable rituals or habits that protect your mental health, your strength, and your authenticity? so a number of things. So the biggest of which for me is working out. So I protect my mornings. I'm a morning workout person. And so I block my calendar, before 8 AM. it doesn't mean I'm in a global role. So many times I am taking calls at, you know, six, seven o'clock in the morning, but that's by, by exception. So I block it so I can go to the gym and it is both good for my body and my mind. It's a moment I actually listened to. Um, I catch up on news. So I do a quick like what are the top news headlines and I listen to podcasts. I actually maybe 10 % of the time listen to music now, even though I'm a massive music lover, because I use that to think about how I'm going to spend my day and to learn new or different things, many times connected to the work that I do. So having that hour, hour and 15 minutes in the morning for myself, protects my sanity and protects like my body and keeps me healthy in terms of the ability to like. you know, create movement. And so I do that six days a week. I do take one day for rest, but I still use the morning, that morning time for my podcasts and news. Victoria, how do you help high performance recover from identity burnout? The kind where they are addicted to being the strong one. I think there's a, there's a lot, there's, I go back to permission, like, I guess, creating that, like that, that place of like safety. and I guess we will bring that back a little bit to resilience. Like you can be resilient, but it doesn't, you don't need to be on all the time. You don't need to, be strong all the time and it's okay to ask for help. And sometimes it's just saying that, quite frankly, to leaders. However, for those who are uncomfortable asking for help, and I have been one of those individuals, and to some extent, sometimes today I am, offering it. What can I do for you? How can I help you? I see you're struggling. Let's do five rapid fire questions. Number one, what is the number one lie we tell ourselves about resilience? Hmm. I'll go back to the badge of honor, that it is a badge of honor to be resilient. A lot of people, let me take a bit of attention here. A lot of people say resilience is about, not about how do they say, not about how many punches you receive, but how many times you stand up again. Is that true? I think that's a big part of it, absolutely. For sure. mean, like, it's... For me, it's about progress. And, you know, I'll say, like, just putting one foot in front of the other, even if you haven't gone far, that is progress. Number two, self care, big necessity or hype? huge necessity. Absolutely. I think it's a big part of not only just being resilient, but being a healthy human being who hopes, hopefully we all hope to have a long, healthy life. What do you say to people that say that the self-help industry is making us weak? Well, so I disagree. However, I think there are some self-help that create excuses, allow people to create excuses for why they are where they are rather than, again, taking action to move forward to where they want to be. Number three, what's a sign that a workplace is emotionally unsafe? emotionally unsafe, well, take a look at retention rates. How quickly are people attritting out of the organization voluntarily? That should speak volumes about why they're doing it. Most likely, not creating a safe environment, psychological safety for them. Four, can empathy be taught or is it innate? Both. ah I do think there's very much naturally it's innate for some people. However, it's uncomfortable for others. And I think you can teach them how to do that and how to do it in a way in which it's received well by others. And number five, what is the one book that you gift the most? gonna give you like the consultant answer. depends. It depends on what I think they need. ah It's tough. I'll go somewhere between either a Simon Sinek book or Malcolm Gladwell. I love both authors. Really good. Victoria, let's wrap this up. If someone uh in our audience is stuck in a survival mode, how can they start shifting? How can they shift towards a healthy and empowered state? I'd encourage them to move through the steps I talk about around healthy resilience. from clarity around goals or objectives they set for themselves, the self-awareness and self-reflection, the surrounding themselves with community to support them. And in some cases, that might mean professional support to giving yourself permission to fail and being strategically intentional with your thoughts, language, actions, behavior. those are, sorry, the last. The last one is actually the permission to fail in anchoring and going back. So I'd say work through those, continue, and that should help them move forward. How can people get to know more about you, work with you, get in touch? I have the easiest places, my website, is victoria-peletier.com. I'm sure it'll be in the show notes so they can not have to figure out the spelling of that. And then from there, they can connect with me on other social platforms if they'd like. Amazing. Victoria, thank you so much for inspiring us with all your resilience. What I'm taking away today is that to be a leader, you don't need to be invincible. You don't need to be perfect. It's okay to be vulnerable. And I really love what you said about the little steps, one step after the other. Sometimes it seems small, but I think it's just the way we humans move forward. one after the other. Thank you so much for being with us here and let's stay in touch.