S3 E27: Teaching Overlapping, Socially Pressing Issues

Dr. Lynnette Leonard and Dr. Dakota McCarty join your host, Dr. Rachel Yoho, to explore how we approach from different disciplines teaching difficult topics, including those with social contexts and relevance. 

Resource: Mason Korea website:  https://masonkorea.gmu.edu 

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Transcript

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Rachel 0:08

Hello and welcome to the Keystone Concepts in Teaching podcast. I'm your host Rachel Yoho, and I'm excited to bring to you an episode with some of our star faculty from Mason Korea. I'm very excited to have them join us for this episode. And so we're going to be talking about some interesting, overlapping teaching of socially pressing issues and how we do this and how we navigate situations. And so as we are joined today, I'll ask our guests to introduce themselves.

Lynette 0:42

Yeah. So I'm Dr. Lynette Leonard. I'm Associate Professor in Communication, and primarily teaching Foundations of Communication, well of course it's been renamed, uh, as Communicating Descent, and looking at revolutions and social movements. And so definitely fits within that socially pressing as distinct part of the class. But I've also taught, I mean in this context a little bit, so here in Korea, in my career though, I've taught in the United States, I've taught in Bulgaria and, through there, students from all over the world, as well as then now here in Korea with more of a focus on students from Asia. So kind of a interesting career of people with different international perspectives.

Rachel 1:26

Yeah, thank you for. Joining us, Dr. McCarty.

Dakota 1:29

Thanks Rachel. I am Dakota McCarty. I am an Assistant Professor here at Mason Korea. I'm teaching the EVPP courses, so environmental science. It's a mix from lecture and lab policy courses. My teaching focus, it's connecting these environmental systems with my background in Urban Planning, connecting it to lived experiences. What is climate resilience? What is green infrastructure to sustainability? So yeah.

Rachel 1:55

Yeah, thank you for joining us. So, like I mentioned in this episode, we really do wanna talk about how we teach and our strategies, especially about overlapping and socially pressing issues. So we might be exploring things like persuasion and media and like environment and climate change, and different aspects of resilience across disciplines. So can you each give us just a brief introduction and overview of how these topics and issues, you know, come into what you teach, or maybe expand a little bit on what you may have already mentioned.

Lynette 2:28

Yeah, well, for my classes, I mean, again, the topic lends itself to that. So we are looking at both historical as well as contemporary examples of individuals seeking to speak truth to power and to make change in the world. And so those are already kind of politically charged, as they are stated. And part of the learning objectives of the course is to explore the ways people have asked for change, and the way that it's been responded to. But also I think in communication broadly. I've also taught in journalism and mass communication. And again, these come up. One of the courses I've taught has been media law and ethics. And so within that, again, looking at cases both historical and contemporary, and trying to understand what occurred in that context, but also what lessons can we take to say, you know, how we approach change in the world or how we consider our own practice and how we are going to communicate with others, and how much we ask of others and how they're communicating with us. So that's kind of how those work together in my classes.

Dakota 3:37

Actually it's slightly similar. For example, one of my classes, we talked about redlining in the US how in the past, you know, a very social history behind that, but students didn't necessarily understand that that's translated to environmental issues today. So if you looked at redline neighborhoods in the past, typically today they have no trees, they're hotter. It's just not great environments. In my courses, naturally, climate change is a socially pressing issue, and I think every student knows that climate change is a thing. Some of them have a good idea why it's a thing, but a lot of them don't necessarily know how can we fix it. It's difficult. In some of my classes, they can end quite depressing. I try to give students this knowledge so they can become agents to, you know, improve it. But sometimes, you know, I have to put a picture of my dog in there so they can feel a little bit happy, um before we move on to the next topic.

Rachel 4:32

Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate your sharing there. And so one of the things we wanna talk about here is, you know, how we help students not only with the content. Certainly all of our courses, we want them to gain whatever the learning outcomes are, whatever topic knowledge, all of that, that's kind of the given there. But in some courses, in some fields, in some disciplines, there are engagement components. So sometimes we might be looking at how we help students move from an awareness to action space. So they might be participating in some sort of civic engagement as part of the course. Or some aspect of research, you know, undergraduate or graduate level research or some aspect of like, public communication. How do we take what the content we're learning and communicate it to a different, you know, non university audience. So would you each mind telling us a little bit about this, you know, this move for students from that content knowledge to some sort of action or engagement in a different space?

Dakota 5:33

Yeah, so in my courses I try to bridge that science to policy gap. So they're not necessarily just learning what climate change is, but what does it mean for policy planning, equity, et cetera. One of my examples I will probably use until I am retired is last semester in class, one of the students was asking about flooding in Korea. She noticed that the floods in Gangnam specifically were getting quite bad. That question it turned into a small research project. It turned into a bigger research project. She applied for URSP, the Undergraduate Research Scholars program for Mason. She was accepted. It turned into a bigger project, and then the summer she went with me to Istanbul to present at an international conference. So I think that's my favorite example of how someone in my class has went from this foundational knowledge of science, realizing there's a problem, and to real action.

Lynette 6:24

Yeah. And along with that, I think it's empowering students. So when I have done classes in journalism and mass communication, a lot of it's been saying, you know, at the start of your career or, and really your career starts in college. And so thinking about what you're learning and how might you apply and when you have a topic that you are passionate about and wanna see through, how can you be brave in doing that? And so what can you do to step forward and I also tend to try to provide scaffolding for students to make those steps. So looking through to say, how do we do better than what we see often in the public sphere in terms of making change, which often goes to, we jump to the first solution rather than really understanding. So in part, it's looking through how much base knowledge can we have? So is there a historical context that we need to understand? Are there examples from the past and what others have tried that might give us steps to make us braver to move forward now? So I like to ground it in things that are both happening now, but also, historical context so that they can feel braver that it's not necessarily they're taking the very first step ever taken, but they are building on a strong foundation.

Dakota 7:44

Actually, I think that's a really good point. We want them to feel the urgency behind the problems, but also have the agency to do something about it. The only thing I would like to add is that I try not to sugarcoat the problems. I feel like sugarcoating it can make it harder to understand. So I try to be as honest as I can with them, but pairing every problem with a pathway, like similar to what to Lynette was saying.

Lynette 8:10

And I think I would agree in that honesty part is important. And I think partially what I've understood too over time is that, so that it doesn't feel necessarily that I'm pushing an agenda that I have. It's looking to what are the other voices that are talking about this issue. So what are we seeing across the world in terms of other people talking about this, either international perspective, local perspective, so that it's not just my position necessarily coming forward that I have many voices that are discussing this as well.

Dakota 8:45

Yeah. Right. And I think that's one benefit of being at Mason Korea. We have quite a diverse range of students. Some visiting from Fairfax, but even the faculty here, there's from every country, every part of the world.

Rachel 8:58

Yeah, absolutely, and I think this transitions back nicely into something we were already kind of mentioning earlier is, you know, sometimes the topics are not uplifting. We can have very depressing subjects. We could have subjects like habitat destruction or climate related poverty or different types of, you know, suffering or injustices, something like that. And so as we're doing this, let's talk a little bit more about the ways we keep students engaged and empowered. I know we were just mentioning have a problem and a pathway, but when you're in a class session or when you're designing your class or you know, even extending those conversations, what does this look like in different ways, if you will?

Dakota 9:42

One specific thing I do in my class is we have an entire lesson on climate anxiety and we use resiliency maps. So students have to look at their specific neighborhood they live in, they have to identify the green spaces, schooling centers, community support hubs, whatever. So it brings it from climate change is a problem. We have anxiety about it, but what do we see that's already around us that is doing something good. So trying to find like little small pieces of good that are inside of it. 'cause no matter how big the problem is, there are gonna be good things that are happening. Well good things happening to fix the problem, if that makes sense.

Lynette 10:20

Yeah. And that's when I'm talking about like social change. If we're looking at a movement and seeing how things are going, particularly when we're looking at, you know, really violent government crackdown or military force for those that are speaking up, you know, so part of what we talk about about developed democracies and such is that, that right to speak up. That that is part, not only of a human right, but it is our duty as a citizen to speak up. And so if we're talking about that both as a right and a duty and then to have it be, but they were just speaking up and then the rubber bullets came and the water cannons and the other things, you know, so talking through that and a lot of times what I take both kind of a, what Dakota says, looking for the good, I guess also going back to like, uh, what was that, Mr. Rogers find the helpers. Um, so in part by looking at, so I was kind of taking that, um. So yes, is there a violent response? Yes. How is that being dealt with? You know, what are the tools that are being used to move forward and work through those things? So who is out there helping? And then also looking through and taking an analytical approach and understanding as well, why is this response, you know, so looking at why do governments respond to this way. Why is speech so powerful? Why is that something that warrants that kind of response? And so having that, trying to pull at least some way away from more of that emotional, immediate visceral response to saying, where can we find the helpers and where do we see why this is happening? And also, you know, that it's an indication of how much this issue means to people, that they are willing to put their life on the line to speak up, and that that's an important part of being human.

Dakota 12:33

Right. Actually I like that a lot. Similar in my class, so in a lot of environmental science textbooks, it starts with systems thinking approaches to environmental science. So not just looking at the symptoms, but the root causes of it. So I think that's quite similar.

Lynette 12:48

Mm-hmm.

Dakota 12:49

cause it's like, the student that was seeing the floods, I was trying to get her to not think, don't say the area is flooding, but ask why is it flooding? Look deeper into it, is there a zoning code? Are there too many buildings, too many streets, whatever the problem could be. And then now we have the root cause of the floods. Now we can come up with a decision to make it better.

Rachel 13:09

Yeah, these are great points. I feel these a lot. I've, you know, developed and taught a climate change class. And I was also at my previous institution was teaching like a global public health class, especially, you know, in March of 2020. You know, these kind of things when you see things coming to life in a little bit different way and the ways that can shut down conversations, but can also create conversations and you know, even things like empathy, fatigue. How do we move to the next thing? And I really like that, you know, where are the helpers? That's very cute as well very memorable, yeah.

Dakota 13:41

But I also love that Lynette and I, we have very different subjects, but how we handle them is quite similar.

Lynette 13:47

It is. And I think I like your point though, because it is, it's like there's times we have such intense topics and part of, I think what both of us as we teach is the reason why we teach these things is because they matter to us and helping students, helping them to make it matter to them. Does that make sense? So hoping that students care about this too, does mean at times that we're getting into intense kinds of things. I think the other thing I would add whenever dealing with this is also just kind of reading the room and seeing, is there anyone who feels particularly affected by this. Whereas some people might get really excited about, Hey, let's make the change. Others, it can be hard and as I've taught in classrooms where I had students from different parts of the world and some that were from the part of the world that we were talking about, and they're gonna have a different experience of that conversation than those that are looking into a space from outside. And so also recognizing that some of this might be really hard and that there may be a time to take a break and while you might be excited about what is there and kind of feeding off the energy of others, talking through, also just being aware of that it may be different for some of the people in the classroom and trying to be aware of that.

Dakota 15:06

But also as faculty managing that t hey might not be as excited as us.

Lynette 15:12

Mm-hmm.

Dakota 15:12

there, there have been there have been a few lectures.

Rachel 15:13

Well, yeah.

Dakota 15:16

like, like the redlining class. That's one of my favorite lectures to teach because it's just so interesting to me. But I was going crazy using my hands, running around the classroom, whatever, and I saw students' faces and they were just like, what? This is a thing like,

Lynette 15:30

Mm-hmm.

Dakota 15:30

so.

Rachel 15:32

Yeah.

Lynette 15:32

But I do think that energy can be, you know, what, kinetic, what do I wanna say? Uh, where it spreads to everyone, you know, it helps feed the overall conversation as well. So even if they later on going, wow, my professor really cared about that, it might be, wow, they cared about that. Why? Why? And maybe I should look at that more. And not just, oh, they're a crazy person.

Dakota 15:53

I like that. I like that. I liked that a lot.

Rachel 15:55

Yeah. Well, and that's the thing, our students may come in already caring. We might show them why we care about a particular topic or issue, but especially like we were talking about earlier, it's not really about what we think. We're not giving the students opinions. We're not giving them things. They're reading, they're listening. They're learning from lots of different voices that are not ours, that we bring into the space to give them multiple viewpoints and lived experiences and first person accountings or whatever the case may be there. But I think that transitions kind of nicely into the context of teaching, you know, the context of teaching, especially right now, but always also, is often changing and seems to be also changing rapidly. So I'm wondering what recommendations you might have for coping with some of the abrupt changes, particularly around some of these types of topics. You know, maybe something, for example, if something you've been teaching for ages and you dusted off every semester and it's fun and it's engaging or it's difficult and it's engaging, but then it suddenly becomes, for instance, politically charged or people start having different opinions that they're bringing into the space or something touches a little too close to home. You know, any of these types of situations.

Dakota 17:15

I'm very excited to hear Lynette's response to this.

Lynette 17:17

Yeah, I've had a lot of, you know, yeah, over the course it's been interesting to see, and especially again, back to that when I'm teaching, you know, a fundamental duty and right to speak up. And then to have just the act of speaking become politically charged, it is a challenge. And a lot of what I do is similar kind of to the depressing topic, which is in part, you can acknowledge that there. I think a strength that we have as an educator is to commonly acknowledge what we are observing, and if somebody in the space, or multiple people in the space are having a very strong opinion of something that is not mm, conducive to the learning environment, or is wanting to shut down the conversation. There are ways to acknowledge that, hey, we're seeing this and feeling this in real time. And so let's step back. And it's actually, again, I think it's interesting with Dakota, it's similar kind of process to talking about redlining or climate change or those things. Because I think going back to say, what are the underlying historical context or aspects to this. So let's pull this apart. Let's see what we're looking at. One of the benefits I think for me of going back to theory is that many of our theories are old. And so if someone was going to then try to accuse of all of a sudden that this is brand new and coming out of a specific standpoint, I'm gonna say Aristotle was around a long time ago, and these ideas are going back that far, you know, so he didn't personally know any of the people. So when he was talking about these theories or when, you know, these different ethical perspectives were being constructed, the current context was not present. And so I think that in part allows you to pull it out of the current controversies and say that in many cases what we're witnessing is the clash of just human experience and that ebb and flow that occurs over time. I think also looking at diverse examples from the world. So I think it can be a case that you can also pull out examples that may relate to the current controversy in the place that you are. So if it is not safe in the country where you are teaching to talk about that topic, but it is happening and there are examples in other parts of the world where this is happening, you may not be able to talk about it with your current government, with your current politicians or your current people in power. But you can talk about an example somewhere else and in terms of that going through, and the lesson can still be present in terms of what did those people do in this case and what was the concerns and the issues present. And again, that distance can often give you a place to talk through and move forward. And then, like any good, I'll go back to Aristotle, so enthymeme with the idea of an incomplete syllogism and overall argument that you have, you can let the audience then make the connections from that authoritarian government halfway across the world and what they may be seeing in their present location. And then that's their connections to there.

Dakota 20:42

Actually very similar again, um, to Aris- I'm just joking. Um,

Lynette 20:47

I was gonna say, I wanna see Aristotle and climate change class.

Rachel 20:51

I was wondering where this was going to, and I've like taught that type of class. So yeah, like, wait, where?

Lynette 20:58

The golden mean! Man, Aristotle can just travel everywhere, you

Dakota 21:02

know? It's, my class, it starts with things like laws of thermodynamics. You can't really argue about those. They've been around for a while. So I try to give students this really solid foundation of environmental science concepts. So when we get to climate change and then we bring up, you know, climate change deniers and things like that, that the students similar, they can see all of this other evidence. And then they can make their own opinion that climate change probably exists. So I think for me, I don't necessarily have as much struggle as Lynette probably does. There were things like when Donald Trump pulled out of the Paris Agreement, students brought that up in class, but it was very, I think 99.9% of the class agreed that that wasn't a good idea. So it just became a conversation. I didn't really feel much pushback, so I feel very fortunate for that. But, you know, see what happens.

Rachel 22:00

Yeah, absolutely. With this podcast, even though we have several campuses in the US for George Mason University, we also have Mason Korea, which is amazing. And also gives us a little bit different perspective because we don't want all of the conversation, all of the teaching to be focused on just the US context. Right? So can you expand a little bit on this conversation based on your experiences from the Mason Korea instructional perspective? And I also, you know, obviously know that, and you've mentioned having other instructional perspectives and research perspectives as well.

Dakota 22:35

So for me, my background is more heavy in urban planning. So being in Songdo is amazing because it's this ultra planned high tech urban environment. Students that are in Mason Korea in my class can see how planning decisions can affect environmental outcomes in the real life. So I think it's in Songdo specifically, it's nice because it's like a living lab in my field mixing environmental science that I've been planning. But I also think that our student body's pretty diverse. They have a bunch of different experiences. Even our Korean students, a lot of them have lived abroad. They went to high school in different countries, whatever else. So we talk about things like public spaces. They have different reference points like malls, parks, temples, sidewalks, whatever, like the, the big umbrella. And I think that the diversity, it makes it really interesting in class. But it also makes it more reflective. So they learn this concept and they can think about it. How was it when they were in high school in Indonesia? How was it on their vacation this summer? Or however else. So I think it's interesting.

Lynette 23:36

I think for me, one of the things I learned when I first went abroad to teach was that how much I had rested on assumptions of a shared understanding. So having grown up in the US, having gone through my education in the US, having taught through that as well, there are certain things that I could use. One of the things I had to change significantly was I didn't realize how much sports metaphors had played. I was not particularly

Rachel 24:04

Oh yeah.

Dakota 24:04

That's interesting.

Lynette 24:05

I was in sports, but I didn't, I wasn't, you know, in public speaking you'd say the next speaker is on deck. And my students were like, what deck are we on? What, what are you talking about? Or those kind, just, there would be times I would say, you know, or you know, any case I would have a number of those things. But also just a shared understanding or a shared experience through that. And so recognizing that, so it was challenging when you're teaching students, when you recognize whether you're in the US or you actually move to another location, but when you're faced with an audience of individuals who have a very different perspective to your own, a different lived experience, I think a lot of it is then having to think outside of your own experience. And not necessarily feeling negatively challenged when someone asks a question, they aren't doing so to disrupt the course or to disrupt you, they just do not have that same experience. And so one of the things that I had learned, aside from having to define certain idioms and expressions that were just natural to me, and then no one understood, uh, was also just asking clarifying questions. Yeah. So it's like if no one, if I'm getting blank, looks kinda like, I at one point had to explain the concept of beating a dead horse by drawing on the board, uh, to blame that.

Dakota 25:27

Oh my God.

Rachel 25:28

Well, oops!

Lynette 25:29

Yeah, it was an interesting, yeah, it was memorable. It showed up in my course evaluations, and I had a student who, when she graduated, mentioned that she will always remember what that means. So you can make it memorable, but in part, being overly explanatory perhaps. But also just asking clarifying questions. So if someone is asking, rather than taking an offense, asking exactly where is this coming from, and being prepared to be brave yourself and weighed in to the unexpected. I had one here recently where I am learning more about, Japanese and Korean historical contexts. I often use a lot of media, so do my students. We talk about using soft power and looking at K dramas and those things. And so there was a student who had an example of a K drama that was set in at the time during Japanese occupation. And so I had a student after class come up with extreme concerns, they were of Japanese descent, and of how that was depicted. And so we had a conversation, and again, that was completely unknown to me. So I had no sense that this drama would have been controversial or a position of concern to even have a conversation or to begin a conversation about it. And so I think in some of it, asking questions, recognizing and acknowledging your own maybe lack of understanding in that area. A willingness to do the research if need be, and taking a break if it feels too charged. In the case of my student, it was good because they came up after class, we were able to have the conversation get to a better point of understanding through that. And so we didn't have to necessarily talk about it in the entire class, but you know, if it is a case of that it comes up during class with everyone involved, then if it feels safe, have the conversation. If it doesn't feel safe, take a break and revisit it when we can.

Dakota 27:27

I do think one of the biggest assumptions that people probably have about teaching at Mason Korea is that the language barrier is the biggest barrier. But honestly, I think it's more the cultural barriers, like these things that Lynette's saying. It makes it an interesting teaching environment, but I enjoy it.

Lynette 27:45

Yeah, I'd agree with it. Probably the one that was surprising me is how much as a teacher, I rely on nonverbal communication, particular expectations of nonverbal communication from what students in America would do. Whereas it's very different in other parts of the world. So, you know, trying to then figure out how you work through that. And then also teaching in places where their educational culture, so not just their culture, but the educational culture they grew up in. In both places where I've taught outside of the US, the elementary or K through 12 education is very much one of predominantly sitting still while somebody tells you things and writing it down and you don't really speak back to the professor and you don't, you know, those kinds of things. And so then they get into my class where I'm like, talk to me. Let's work through this. What are the things and, you know, how are you experiencing this? And, and they're, it's a little bit deer in headlights, the first bit through there. And then it's a matter of helping them understand that educational culture that is asking them to participate in a way they have not done so before, and in a way that they would've been actively moved away from. So it's not even a case of they're unfamiliar, but they may have been punished. So if one of the cases that they like this style, but they tried it when they were a kid and were shot down, then they'll be even more reluctant to speak now. So I think that's, I, I would agree with Dakota. It's not so much the language, it's about understanding the culture and some of the comments and when they say something, what is the question behind the question?

Rachel 29:24

Yeah. Absolutely. Well, thank you both so much for your time. You know, I think here we're really looking at the keystone concepts around how do we create balance and how do we create openness, you know, that could be openness for our students to try new things. It could be openness to hearing different perspectives and topics or accounts of topics or issues. But it's also for us, how do we approach conversations to understanding and, and coming from our own perspectives as well. And so we also talked about, especially this in terms of balance. We might be teaching very difficult topics, very challenging topics that might be very personal as well. It might be personal to us, it might be part of our research and something that we're excited about. But it might also be personal in terms of a student or their lived experience, especially with some of these, you know, very pressing social context or issues. So here, I think really it's how do we create that balance? How do we create openness? How do we create conversation and opportunities for students to learn and achieve and maybe see some of the paths forward, you know, where are the helpers, if you will. So with that, I appreciate the time for both of you. Any final thoughts you'd like to add?

Lynette 30:37

I think for me it would just be, be brave, and 'cause I think your own bravery that can come forward helps inspire students and helps them to tackle the challenges that are coming or that are here, but that will also come to them when they finish.

Rachel 30:52

Yeah. Thank you.

Dakota 30:53

Thank you for having us.

Rachel 30:54

Thank you both so much for your time.

Lynette 30:56

Yes. Thank you.

Rachel 30:56

Yeah. Alright. And please check out future episodes or even past episodes. We have quite a few of Keystone Concepts in Teaching. We're posting every two weeks during the spring and fall semesters, so I hope you check out some of our other episodes. Also a shout out to another episode where we talked about some of these similar topics about Mason Korea and teaching and Mason Korea as well with episode 19. So I encourage you to check that out as well as many of the other great episodes that we have in other topics and spaces. So thank you so much!