S4 E34: Career Readiness as a Teaching Practice

George Mason’s University Career Services Executive Director, Saskia Campbell, joins host Dr. Rachel Yoho to explain the role her office plays in supporting students at the university and highlight practical ways faculty can partner in preparing students for life after graduation. The conversation explores George Mason’s career outcomes data, the chaos theory of careers, and the transferable skills employers value most. Faculty will also learn about low‑effort, high‑impact teaching practices and resources. This episode is a must‑listen for instructors interested in helping students make clearer connections between coursework and career pathways. 

Resources: University Career Services: https://careers.gmu.edu/ Career Readiness Guide: https://mymasonportal.gmu.edu/bbcswebdav/xid-193714404_1 Career Influencers Network: https://careers.gmu.edu/faculty-staff/career-influencers-network Request a Classroom Presentation: https://careers.gmu.edu/faculty-staff/request-presentation

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Rachel 0:08

Hello and welcome to the Keystone Concepts in Teaching podcast from the Stearns Center for Teaching and Learning at George Mason University. I'm your host Rachel Yoho, and I'm very excited to be joined by Mason's Career Services office today and our executive director. Would you like to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about Mason's Career Services office?

Saskia 0:31

Sure. Thanks Rachel. Um, Saskia Campbell, executive Director of University Career Services. I have actually been at Mason now for 13 years and really consider myself yes, long time. I'm a long timer here. And I consider myself as the Chief Career Readiness Equation Champion here at the university, and I find my work very rewarding.

Rachel 0:52

Excellent. Well, thank you so much for joining us. I'm very excited to have this conversation because I think there's a great opportunity here for faculty, for our listeners or instructors to make maybe some connections with maybe an office that they don't get to interact with as often, as well as for us to think a little bit about, you know, some of the ways that we maybe think about career readiness in our teaching. So to get us started, can you tell us a little bit more about your office and your team and some of the really cool stuff that you all do?

Saskia 1:25

Sure, sure. So we are the centralized career center providing comprehensive support to both undergraduate and graduate students at every stage of the career development process. University career services plays a critical role in the career of readiness ecosystem here at the university. And so we are helping students through the decision making process around choosing a major and how they might use their degree after they graduate. We are providing opportunities for students to gain exposure to different career paths. In terms of internships in particular, so connecting students with alumni and employers for those types of experiences, and we are coaching students on how to effectively communicate what they know and what they can do as a result of their George Mason experience. I think we're perhaps most known for our career fairs. These are multi-day large events taking over the Johnson Center. And so we hold those each semester. Our career fairs typically draw close to 200 employers representing a wide variety of different career paths and industries. We also manage Handshake which is the university's job and internship platform for students. So that's where we're connecting students with employers who are specifically interested in recruiting Mason talent. And then of course, students can meet one-on-one with members of university career services for resume reviews during our drop-ins, which we do daily or to come in for an appointment. So we stay busy.

Rachel 2:53

Absolutely. Yeah, a lot of cool stuff coming out of career services across a wide range of supports. So can you tell us a little bit about, you know, some of the things that I've found particularly interesting, and I think our listeners might as well, some of the things about like the Mason impact and some of the survey results that you have are particularly compelling.

Saskia 3:15

Sure. So, okay. So not to be confused with the graduating or the exit surveys, that are administered, which ask students to reflect on their experience at Mason. The career plan survey is forward looking. And we administer that in partnership with the Office of Institutional Effectiveness and Planning, and it asks what students are planning on doing after they graduate. So it's administered August 1, December 1, May 1, to correspond with each of our three graduating cycles. And it's asking what students' first step, their first destination is, after they're completing their degrees, whether an undergraduate or a graduate degree. The data is collected and made publicly available because it benefits all of us to know the wonderful things that our grads go on to do with their mason degrees. And so for the last class, the class of 2024, the positive career outcome rate was 85%. And by positive career outcome rate, I mean the percentage of our students who were either employed or continuing their education. The median salary was about 70 K. And as to be expected, the majority of our alums do stay here in the region. So, DC, Maryland, Virginia, a great place to live, work, and play. And for many years now, the top industries have remained pretty consistent. Government, technology, education, healthcare, consulting. Those are the fields that our students tend to go into after they graduate. And that's to be expected given the major employers that we have here in the area. The big names amazon, MITRE, Inova, Booz Allen, Deloitte, the US Department of Defense, Fairfax County Public Schools, CGI, Peraton, the State Department. Now to be honest, we do expect to see some shifts in some of those outcomes for the next class of 2025.

Rachel 5:10

Yeah, absolutely. Definitely a lot of things going on in the region. So if we take a step back for just a moment and, you know, great numbers, certainly lots of good things, lots of placement for graduates or what they're doing next with their degrees. But if we take a step back into your approaches, can you tell us a little bit about some of your approaches to like career development, that model and some of the, like the pathways and things that I've heard from your office, like the chaos theory of careers. Can you explain this a little bit to our listeners?

Saskia 5:47

Sure. So I mean, the average time that a graduate stays in that first position is around a year, 12 months. It's pretty short these days.

Rachel 5:58

Yeah.

Saskia 5:59

So therefore the placement model of previous generations, is now outdated and career services, that's not our role, to put students or make work assignments. Our role is to support the educational mission of the institution, just like our teaching faculty and instructors. So we are teaching students the skills associated with the career development process. So they need to know how to do that self-reflection and assessment. You know, what are my strengths and abilities? What are my goals? How can I make a contribution? They need to be able to research the job market and identify opportunities, how to market themselves in a resume, in an interview. And then of course, how to stay relevant. That commitment to lifelong wondering, staying up on the latest technology and skills so that they can continue to advance in their careers. And if they know how to do these different components, then they're gonna find and maintain success over their lifetime. So we really see ourselves as teaching students the life skills of career development and management. Yeah, because they're gonna be duplicating this process again and again and again. This serves all of our students very well, whether they're undergraduate or graduate students, career starters, career advancers, or career changer for that matter.

Rachel 7:16

Absolutely. I think these are such great points because I think it really reflects well also with like, when we talk about what the Mason graduate is and one of those things is really looking at that lifelong learner and engagement and all of that stuff. And I think here what career services is doing, as far as like the reflection and the searches and how to advance professionally really resonates well with what I think a lot of our instructors are looking at is how do we teach people, not just a skill, maybe sometimes we're doing skills or training or something like that, but we're also teaching our students how to be learners and how to continue to be those lifelong learners and grow. So I see these things really working very well side by side especially.

Saskia 8:00

I'm realizing I never did address chaos theory. I think given everything that's going on in the world today, it's very apropos that chaos theory of careers serves as the underpinning for the work that we do in university career services. It's ideal because it embraces uncertainty and rapid change, which is exactly what our students and graduates are experiencing in today's job market. So it helps students build that stability, resilience and openness to chance events. So as you can imagine, and maybe this was you as well, everyone imagines that their career path is gonna be a straight line up. But most career paths are in fact not linear. They're full of turns, redirects, pivots. And you know, this is for a number of reasons. External and internal factors that play things like evolving interests. As you get more exposure, developing new skills, changes in employer demand. More family responsibilities, chasing love, you know, one's own health and wellbeing, global events, all of these things are impacting the job market and career prospects. And so, chaos theory of careers really helps us to focus on how we are broadly preparing students, with the eight transferable or durable skills, power skills, career readiness skills. They go by many names, but they are communication, critical thinking, teamwork and collaboration, professionalism and work ethic, leadership, technology, diversity and inclusion, and career management. And so we are finding that if we focus on those, then we are really setting students up, not just for the first job, but for subsequent jobs as well.

Rachel 9:45

Yeah, that's a great point. I feel that, one, I have a PhD in engineering, like, what am I doing here? So, yeah, no, I think that's a great point. And I really, I also really like the visual that goes with that, you know, with the difference between that linear career and one that looks like a plate of spaghetti or a ball of yarn, you know, spilled all over the floor. I think that's such a great point and really goes back to the importance of what we're doing. We're not just learning a thing, we're learning how to approach things. We're learning how to be learners as we go on as well. And so I guess let's maybe transition this conversation a little bit more specifically into teaching. What are some things that you might see as examples of lower effort but higher impact types of teaching practices that instructors might think about to help their students either be or perhaps maybe just to see themselves as career ready?

Saskia 10:40

Sure. So, again, one of the services that we provide is resume reviews, and when we see students, the first thing that I do with the student who comes in, I'll say, I don't even wanna look at your resume right now. Tell me a little bit about your career goal or interest, and what do you think that you have done that best qualifies you for that? It could be coursework you did. It could be for pay, not for pay, in and outside the classroom. It doesn't matter where you gained the experience or skills, but what do you think most qualifies you? And nine times outta 10, a student will name course, projects, research papers, group work as what is most directly relevant to the step that they wanna take next, and it's not on their resume. It's not on there because they did not realize, they didn't know that academic coursework counts as experience that's worthy to be put on a resume. And so I think the very low effort, but high impact work that our faculty can do is to give students permission to put their coursework on their resume. So simply saying, this was a really significant project that you worked on. It's experience that you can put on your resume. Career services has examples of how to include course projects. Check out the career readiness guide for sample resumes. Just that would go a long way in helping students to fill out their resumes and give their greater confidence. I think another example of something that would be easy to implement is when teaching content, explicitly name the transferable skills that students are developing. So essentially translate the student learning objectives into the top career readiness skills that every employer is looking for. So translating student learning to the language of employers. And when we do national surveys of employers across all industries, all job sectors, every supervisor or manager is looking for essentially the same eight skills they have withstood the test of time, you know, communication, critical thinking, teamwork, technology, leadership. And so, if faculty could help students make those connections, it really reinforces the relevance of coursework to their professional development and prepare students to answer, comment, interview questions that ask them to provide an example of a time when they demonstrated a particular skill. So that would be huge as well. And then I just have one other one I'd like to highlight, which is reflection. So to existing assignments, adding a short reflection question, like, in what ways could the knowledge or skills you applied in this assignment support your goals after graduation? Or think about a professional setting where this knowledge might be useful. What role could you play there? Find a current job or internship posting that lists skills similar to those used in this assignment. What connections do you see? So, actually, Dr. Jihye Moon in the Modern and Classical Languages Department, she served as a faculty fellow with career services last year, and she's been doing assessment on the impact of brief career interventions, like those that I named. And she's been very encouraged by the results in terms of the positive impact on student engagement that she's observing in her classes when she implements these interventions.

Rachel 14:08

Yeah, I think these sound great, especially when we're in such a time where broadly in the national conversation, there's a lot of questions about the value of higher education. You know, the time investment, the money, whatever that might be. Certainly that's not the conversation we're getting into here, but there is still a lot of importance. Not that we're trying to sell our students on the importance, but making transparent what we're doing, why we're doing it, how this helps them. Because like you said, you know, students aren't necessarily going to see that this activity that we did in week seven or even maybe a semester long project is actually building tangible skills that they can use. I mean even a great example is like using that as "tell us about a time when" types of interview questions, but even looking at what are we doing? Why are we doing this? I'm not assigning you busy work, I swear, you know that kind stuff. I, maybe we're not having that conversation, but having that connection there of what are we doing? Why are we doing this? How does this help your future profession? Or even just building teamwork. How do we work productively across our differences in this course to do whatever it is we do in our field? So I think these are such great points. I also really liked what you were talking about with the reflection piece. I think that's really an easy and very accessible way that faculty can bring that in and have the conversation. We're not always say, talking about things in advance, but bringing that in as sort of that really nice wrap up to an assignment, an activity, something in the, you know, semester long project, to bring in that reflection, helping our students hopefully a little bit with their metacognition, their thinking about their thinking, but in this case, maybe just thinking about their skills, thinking about their professional development through this. So I think these are really great points here. Are there any other things that you think instructors might be considering or want to consider about either their courses or their students' future endeavors? Anything, you know, it could be anything about the changing job market or anything along those lines. Things that you are thinking about or your office is thinking about right now.

Saskia 16:18

Yeah, I think the elephant in the room all the time now is AI, right?

Rachel 16:22

Yep.

Saskia 16:23

Which is disrupting every industry and profession. So employers absolutely expect college students and recent graduates to be curious about the latest technology and know how to use it to work faster and smarter. And so we are able to get some network trends, reports from Handshake who recently surveyed more than a thousand employers, and over 80% said it's important that new hires are comfortable with AI. Now, what do they really mean by that? Things like researching and synthesizing information, automating work, self-teaching, brainstorming, written communication. And so I think to the extent possible, it's great if instructors can embed AI into course assignments so that students can get experience with how to use it appropriately which means that they are adding value to whatever output they're generating using the tool.

Rachel 17:20

I think that's such a great point and one of the things that, you know, I talk about it a lot in workshops when I talk about, well, what do we do about teaching in the age of AI? And really thinking about what does this look like professionally? What does our field, what do our professional societies expect? What do I as the faculty member, what does my field do? How do I model that type of behavior? But also really looking at, hopefully, avoiding some of those reactionary stances. Okay, we're gonna go to paper and pen or whatever, because our employers are, whatever our students are going to be doing is probably not going to be doing that. So how do we think strategically? How do we continue learning? How do we continue actually interacting with the content, but not perhaps just from that, like I'm gonna catch cheaters or frustration with our students are overusing or like you said, maybe not using AI correctly or appropriately to the field, something like that. So how do we make that so we have those conversations? How do we have that preparation? Because our students need it, our employers want it. And obviously we also wanna be thinking about this just in terms of a tool. So I think that's a really great point there as well. Any other resources you'd like to share with our faculty? Anything that they might find useful, not only to their teaching, but just to know about your office in general?

Saskia 18:40

Sure. So for those who may not feel as comfortable having some of these career conversations in the classroom, we can always request a presentation and a member of the career services team would be happy to come in and talk with your students about writing a resume or looking for an internship or how to network. So that is a request form that you can just fill out on our website, careers.gmu.edu under the faculty staff heading. And then also I would definitely be remiss if I did not mention the Career Influencers Network that we have here at George Mason. So this is actually now a nationally recognized best practice for how to embed career, education, and support throughout the student experience. So by empowering and equipping faculty and staff who are interacting with students in the classroom and advising sessions and on campus employment roles, you know, whoever's interacting with students and is having these kind of career conversations, helping them make these connections, they are extending the reach of career services and really ensuring that there are no barriers to access and that, you know, all students are getting this great support. So that is a professional development opportunity that is open to all George Mason faculty and staff and we would welcome you to attend the next training that we're offering. And I don't know, Rachel, if you might wanna talk about your own experience going through it. I think that's how we connected.

Rachel 20:02

That is how we connected. So yeah, for transparency, I thought, hmm, I'll do this career influencers training. 'cause I think there might also be some good opportunities for bringing this information to our podcast audience. So not only for myself, which I think it was great, it was a great way to connect, especially with people from different areas who, you know, I don't normally interact with, but have those conversations about our interesting and different career pathways and the ways we support students, the ways we reflect. But yeah, I think it was also a great opportunity just to be in community. With that, yeah, I think this is also what that came out of this conversation. And I think there's also great opportunities moving forward for bringing some of this integration into other, hopefully other Stearns Center programming as well, so, absolutely. All right. So with that, this is a great conversation. I appreciate your joining us. I think here what we're really looking at for our keystone concept today is really looking at connection. You know, helping our students see the connections between the work that they do and their professional development. Whether that's, you know, current, like we talked about, career advancers or career changers, future careers, whatever that might be. But also the connections as, you know, we build lifelong skills. We can certainly build individual skills, but we're also connecting with a deeper learning base. How do we learn not only how to navigate our own careers and hopefully have a little bit more of a feel of power or control over our future directions and all of that. But also really thinking about how we put that into action. What skills we build, not only in the class or technical skills or whatever our discipline is, but our personal skills. How do we build ourselves, how do we see those connections? So I think that's really our keystone concept for today, is really making those connections, making those obvious, helping our students see them, but also helping our faculty and our instructors see ways that can be possible, that they can support their students in making those connections as well. So thank you again so much for joining us. I'm very appreciative of your insight, your collaboration, and your sharing your time with us.

Saskia 22:16

Thanks for having me.

Rachel 22:17

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much and please catch our episodes every two weeks during the spring and fall semesters. So thank you so much for listening.