Ep. 211 The Beginner's Mindset: Finding Clarity in Library Values

Sunshine and Stories Episode 211: The Beginner's Mindset: Finding Clarity in Library Values 

Episode Summary: 

Kieran Hixon, CSL's Small and Rural Library Senior Consultant, has a conversation with Sharon Morris focusing on the concept of the "beginner's mindset" and how core library values are learned and sometimes conflict. 

Outline:

00:19 Who is Sharon Morris?  

01:21 The Beginner’s Mindset & "Aha" Moments 

03:32 Learning Core Values: Privacy vs. Service 

06:37 Structure and Responsibility 

07:37 Defining Moments & Conflicting Values 

10:20 Values Conflict: Consistency vs. Service 

14:39 Practicing the Beginner's Mindset 

17:25 Déjà Vu and Library Excellence 

19:15 Growth from Frustration ("Fertilizer") 

21:48 Closing 

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CSL projects like this one are funded in part by the Grants to States program administered by the federal Institute of Museum and Library Services. The views, findings, conclusions, or recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily represent those of the Colorado State Library, Institute of Museum and Library Services, or the U.S. Government. 

Transcript

[music] [00:06]   

00:00:06 Kate B: Welcome to Sunshine and Stories. 

Kate C: The podcast that shines a light on big ideas and bright moments in Colorado's public and school libraries. 

Kate B: Brought to you by the library development team at the Colorado State Library. 

00:00:19  
Kieran: Hi there, this is Kieran Hixon. The Small and Rural Library Senior Consultant at the Colorado State Library. On today's episode, we have Sharon Morris discussing the beginner’s mindset, librarianship, and conflicting values. 

Sharon Morris is a patron service substitute at the small library in the mountains of Colorado. She's worked there… 

How long have you worked there, Sharon? 

Sharon: So yesterday would have been like my second week. 

Kieran: Alright, so two weeks in. Great. 

Sharon: Yeah, I feel like I kind of know what I'm doing. No, I don't know anything. 

Kieran: Well, Sharon's also worked at the Denver Public Library for 9 years, a library software company for a couple of years, and the Colorado State Library for about 20 years. Twelve of those years, she was the Director of Library Development. She has a Master's Degree in Library Science and a PhD in Managerial Leadership in Libraries.  

So, Sharon, tell me, what brings you joy in library land? 

Sharon: Man, there's so much. It's like the people, the stuff in the library, all the learning sweet people that come in to use the library. It's just it's something for everyone. Gives everyone hope. There's just so much. It's been great to be back in a library again. 

And also, it's kind of funny that I've been meeting all these people who just started working in the library. They don't have any library background at all. So I'm just trying to be beginner mindset with them, and it's just kind of cool to get to know people and why they started to work in libraries and what brings them joy, so do you. I mean, you know, it's made me think about when I first started working in a library way back in the day, harkening back. Do you remember what it was like for you when you first started working in a library like what brought you joy? 

00:02:06  

Kieran: You know, when I started, I started at 2 libraries at like kind of the same time, and I was working the front, like the circ desk at one library, and the back room at the other library. So it was really like a mix, and the thing that brought me joy was when I started to make these aha moments of like what I was doing in the back room and how it helped me in the front with a with a customer, with a patron, and kind of putting together these -How the library works or how library works even, not just the libraries I was working in, but how the general concept worked. 

00:02:42  

Sharon: It's really cool, isn't it? It kind of reminds me, you know, when I first started working at the Denver Public Library, and I did a lot of different things in my time there, you know, I was like a circ clerk, I did outreach. I did children’s services, reference. I did collection development. I mean, interlibrary loan, you know, and so you can't like this feeling. And especially in a small library, you just do all of those things just in this one little position as a substitute, filling in for people. And so you're returning books and checking things out and everything. But I remember when I first started, I had come from, like, working in hospitality and working in retail where you supposed to kind of like, establish a relationship with people and chat with them and be chatty. So I was kind of chatting with people at the circulation desk. Not knowing that that was verboten. And so it's just, you know, naive. We, back in the day, Denver Public Library just put you out. They just didn't really train you much. And so I remember my first week I. Like checking things out to people and you know, just before self-check was way back in the day but everything was automated. I'm not that old and I and I would just say ohh dog books. That's awesome. That's like you getting a new dog. And then the next person come up and like ohh, you know John Grisham you're gonna have some fun reading tonight, you know like and some people would just kind of look at me funny, and after, kinda during a break in customers, because there's people waiting in line, they could maybe listen into this. And so my colleague Rose is like, you know, I've worked in circ now for a little while. And what I learned was we don't really comment on what people are checking out because it's kind of it's about their own intellectual freedom to choose what they want and not really share it. So there's confidentiality so she sort of politely talked to me about those core values and actually the law around privacy, but in a really kind way. Sort of like it's a different kind of service here. And I was just like, you know, she didn't make me wrong. She's really nice about it, but really like, that struck me. I was like, oh, that's so cool it, you know, that's how I like to use the library. You know, I like to just go in. I don't want anybody to bother me. I want to do my own thing.  I'm pretty private about what I want to do, and I can give that to other people and allow them the freedom to just to explore on their own and do what they want without getting in their business. 

You know, and so it really did instill in me that core value that I believe in, even with children, like when I worked in the children's department, giving them the freedom to explore and do whatever they want, and that intrinsically motivated aspect of librarianship is still such a core value for me that I really believe in. So yeah, I mean, I think that that's what happens when you start working in a library. You start to learn the things, but then as you learn the things, you start to, it's almost like you get kind of imbibed in the values and the sort of why behind it, and it makes you feel even more of a sense of like, oh, this is kind of a cool thing to be doing, right? 

Kieran: Right. It's that first year arc, figuring out that it's not, it's not the tasks, it's not the like, ‘Oh, I want to be a librarian so I can sit around and read’ or like all those little things. It's more about these, these bigger values of librarianship. 

Sharon: I kind of wonder about that. If there is, it is an arc. I have never seen any research on that, but it'd be cool to study. 

You know, sort of like when somebody first comes to work in the library. So, what are their first aha moments, like, wow, I didn't know the library had all of this, like, structure behind it. We had this big conversation, us and the other new people that all started in the last month, yesterday, we were talking about the Dewey Decimal system. And like, how that works. And I mean, it was just this great, fascinating and fun conversation. You get into access and then you get into, you know, just all kinds of things about sort of the deepness of what library work is in terms of organizing all of the content of knowledge into something that people can actually find. 

00:06:37  

Kieran: When I worked at my first libraries, when I was in the backroom of the one, one of the things I did was cataloging, and I went from learning basically how to copy and paste and you know,  a tiny bit of like original for some of the weirder books, but, you know, figuring out how to put a Dewey decimal number on it and all that. I went from like learning how or like the basic how to do parts, to having this overwhelming sense of like responsibility to like how I do this, or if I mess up, then it will become unfindable. You know? And it suddenly felt like oh oh gosh, you know like, do I know enough to do this? It was kind of, yeah, it impressed me. That whole structure behind. 

Sharon: Ah, there is such a structure and so much of a feeling of responsibility, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I wonder, too, over time as people work in libraries, how that kind of evolves or changes. So my research, when I was in my doctoral program, was around values and defining moments.  I talked to a lot of different library directors with a variety of research studies that I did about sort of like when are those moments where something happens where your values get clarified or your values get shifted. That's what a defining moment is like when you have this “aha”, where you get greater clarity on your values. So, one example was this one woman who's like a rural library person, and she had started in the library and worked her way up, and now she was this the director of the library and she was checking somebody out because small library, at a school/public library, and this kid. And we all know this kid. If you've worked in any kind of rural or urban library, you know this kid. It's like the kid who can't get their books back on time and maybe has charges on their cards for like DVD's and CD's . Maybe they're never going to be returned because their parents have sold those for drugs. You know this kid and they're coming into the library cause it's like a safe place for them. It's a haven and yet, but they can't really get their act together to get things back. Right. And so she had this kid and it’s a small town. Everybody knows this kid and he came up and he, 10 years old, was super excited to check out this book on drawing. 

And she, up until that moment, had really believed that her role as the director was to be a good steward of tax dollars and take care of all the materials. When she went to check it out and he had this $12.00 fine because, you know, he hadn't returned something. And she realized in that moment that she could tow the line on being a good steward of tax dollars and say he couldn't check it out or she could choose a higher value, even though stewardship is important in libraries, you know, this higher value of access, and kind of offering this opportunity for this kid to find something new in his life. So, she basically deleted the fine and made that choice, like it's worth, like $12.95, she, like, remembered the exact amount, but the defining moment was for her to shift from like it's not about the stuff, it's about, you know, really providing access to people in a way that's going to improve their lives. And I, I just love that. I love that, like we have these kinds of conflicting moments there, there's tension, and we can maybe shift our values around a little bit, and it happens within the first couple of weeks of work in a library, but it can happen throughout your career in a library. Have you ever had a time where you've like shifted your values and had a defining moment? 

00:10:20  

Kieran: That's a good question. Yeah, I mean, I think the first part of it was about learning values. You know, like, what does it mean? Like you just said, people over materials. But yeah, part of it, you know, like we're more than a warehouse of books. Absolutely. But part of it is that stewardship of materials. And part of it is that kind of greater good. And I think, I think I have been in positions where I've had to kind of rank my professional values, and some of that is in conjunction with my personal values, but also as they come into conflict with other people. And somebody else saying, “it's better that we're fair”, right? It's better that even though you know this family that just came in, you know, our rule says 3 DVD's, you know, check out on a card. And you know that they always return them, they have for years, and they like to get 5 at a time. You know, and if you bend the rule for one person, you have to bend the rule for everybody, you know, like, I totally understand that. And I understand this like, well, I know that they live, you know, out pretty far, and they only come to town once a week, and they'll be at the library once a week, and they'll turn those in. And they would like 5 DVDs between now and then. And kind of getting what is equal and what is fair in comparison to like I I don't know. 

Sharon: Yeah, like individual service needs. I think that is always a conflict in libraries. Like, you know, these things, we call them our core values as if they all are like bright and shiny, but we all prioritize them differently. Don't we? And that's where the conflict comes in. They don't always mesh, and that's really a good example. I think about these all the time because I tend to be a little bit more of a service-first. And I remember when I was a manager and I was working with another manager, we didn't always see eye to eye. A lot of times when we were together, there was all this tension and rub between us. And I never could figure out why. So I just tried to avoid working with her. But you know, then I was like, you know what? I gotta find a way to work well with her. So we worked together on the hiring project. And there's a question that I ask when I hire, which is, “Tell us about a time you broke a rule to provide excellent customer service”. And so, this obviously is a way to find out a little bit more about like what's the threshold people have for breaking a rule, and the stories are always like really dear or sweet, you know, like, I had to get something somewhere, and you know, maybe I sped 5 miles over the speed limit or something, you know? Or, you know, like, oh, this rule that she broke about, like checking out the drawing book, you know? So my colleague was like, “Can we get rid of this question?” And I was thinking like, but it's my favorite question, you know. Hell no. But instead, I was like, well, tell me why you don't want to use this question. And she said it's never appropriate to break a rule. And in that moment, I was like, I had this aha moment. I'm like, oh. Oh, I now understand her. And what matters to her. And we have this values conflict where I often say like, let's find a way to make things happen for the individual to get what they need, that service. But she is like, we have to have consistency, rules are there for a reason. We have to be honest and clear. And I said, you know, that's actually a really good answer to the question. So I want to keep the question because that tells me everything that I need to know about what you would bring to this job if you were applying for it. So we kept the question and it helped me to work better with her in the future once it was clear that we had this values conflict. And so I think that sometimes what happens in our work as we start to have a like tension between people. But if we can find out like, what are their values, what matters to them, and what are mine, and are we ordering them differently, and we can talk about the conflict and where we have common interests. Then we don't make it about each other. We can make it about kind of making things better and we actually become stronger relationship wise. 

Kieran: Yeah. 

00:14:39  

Kieran: So, you're taking your new position, and you have this beginner's mindset with it. Do you want to say a little more about the beginner's mindset? Like what that means to you? 

Sharon: It means really listening and understanding the people that I work with, and understanding the processes that they do, and understanding, like, this particular library is just, they have certain values, and just finding out what their mission is and their values and how they are manifesting those on a day-to-day basis. So that I can show up in a way that I'm part of the team, and also, I think part of the beginner's mindset for me is just having that growth mindset. So, you know, there have been some things where I don't know how to do a system. There's some people that are training me, and they, like, know the keyboard strokes. And I'm like, I'm OK. Here's the thing. Like, I'm the substitute and I’m not gonna memorize all the keyboard strokes for the software for the ILS software. Good for them for doing that, because you know this person, she's like 21, and her brain can memorize all of her passwords and everything. And I have mine on my phone because I'm an old lady. So. But, you know, it's like, we all have our workarounds, but I just try to go in each day and take each moment like I'm not sure what to do. And listen, and be mindful, and try to learn. And then there are times where, you know, something comes up, and I just know because of my background. Like the other day, somebody came in and said I want to get a list of all of these concerts that are coming up because my granddaughter plays the harp, and you know, I wanna see harp things. And so one of my colleagues who, she just was like, well, let's just print you out a copy of the schedule. And she gave her the copy of the schedule. And I said and I'm just, I have the PDF up. Let me keyword search it cause it's this tiny print. I'll keyword search it for harp, and I'll tell  all the things where there's definitely a harp featured in the concert, so that you can highlight those, and I gave her a highlighter, so I just did a little bit extra to help her with her need because I just know to do that because of my years of library experience, right. But the key was that, that just comes up innately for me because I've done it before, but it's not what I lead with, you know? 

I lead by letting somebody else in the organization who knows more than me and has worked there a long time lead, and then I add on to it. Yeah, the key here. 

Is that whether I'm like checking in materials or helping a kid find a book, or, you know, just saying hello to somebody and making them feel welcome in the library. It's just so great to be back in the library again and see that every day people are coming in for different reasons and leaving happier than when they came. It's really satisfying.  Yep, substitute patron services person. 

00:17:25  

Kieran: That's awesome. Have you had any aha moments with your personal career? Now that you've restarted and have this beginner's mindset?  

Sharon: No, I think it's like, so what I notice is, you know, if you're going into a library after having not worked in a library in a really long time, it's all new. But it's almost like, when you were a kid, maybe your parents took you to some National Park when you were five or something. You have a vague memory of it. And now, as an adult, you go back to that same National Park and you sort of remember the look of it, but you don't really. It's like that, like every, you know, my memory is like that about the library. It's like all new. But then there's like, oh wait, this is kind of familiar to me in some way. 

00:18:08  

Kieran: A distant sense of déjà vu? 

Sharon: Yes. Yes. So yeah, there's somebody's just in their second week of working in a library as a substitute, or they've worked in libraries for years. I think it's cool to know that they're doing things that they care about and that matter to other people. I love that idea that you have that like there's no, it's not like a board game where there's a winner and loser, although that would be fun if we created that together. If we invented a “I did it right at the library” board game. But even when things are, you know, done a certain way, nobody is like blaming me as a new person, and they're just like, oh, yeah, let me help you show you how to do this, this way. So, I love that. I love the spirit of the people that work in at least the library that I'm in, where they're just, like, super helpful. And it's all about learning to do and excellence. You know, they care about excellence, so. 

I hope every library is like that and pretty much I don't know you and I've visited many, many libraries over the years. I always detect that as a common theme in libraries as people who care and care about excellence. 

00:19:15  

Kieran: I consider you to be one of my mentors, and I want to find a way to pass some of the wisdom I've learned from my mentors on to other people. So, I think that anything that you have to add, please take this opportunity, and you have the floor.  

Sharon: Yeah. I think getting back to this idea about defining moments, I think when we feel frustrated in our work in libraries, or we feel like there's a conflict or we have a situation, we don't know what to do with, where we're befuddled. All of that is actually ripe for growth. and development. It's almost like fertilizer, you know, it smells bad in the moment. That's. That's all the stuff that feeds a defining moment and a key insight about seeing things differently or feeling more strongly about our own values. So whatever my reaction is if I have a really strong emotional reaction. It's because there's something that is unexpected that I can learn something from. So rather than being frustrated by the unexpected, how can we be open to the possibility for insight or defining moments in our work? 

00:20:28  

Kieran: So are you saying that by the light of the dumpster fire, you can see the new possibilities? 

Sharon: So yeah, sometimes I am a bit of a Pollyanna. However, I do think that the reason I guess I am is because we do have. It can be really like a lot of work and people can put a lot of pressure on themselves. Like you said, you put a lot of pressure on yourself to get things right. I just think we need to be generous in spirit. With each other and with ourselves is a more we kind of give each other slack. The better we function like and like a rubber band, you know, like a rubber band can only be stretched so far if it's already stretched, like the worst thing to do is to pull harder. You need to give it more slack. So I like that metaphor for like when things are tough in the library. Like how do we find some slack with each other? And with ourselves and with the maybe even the people that are misbehaving in our libraries. But it's like whether you've worked in a library for two weeks or many years, there are these moments, and sometimes they're tough. And so how do you step back and look for the values and the kind of defining aspect of it that really matters to you or to the other people in a way that makes it like you said, kind of a win-win rather than I have to win. We can all maybe just be a little bit more open to the other. 

00:21:48  

Kieran: Thank you, Sharon. I really do appreciate your joining me with this conversation. Getting to hear about your beginners mindset and to talk about those library values and defining moments and values conflicts. I think that's some incredible insight and I really appreciate having a conversation with you. 

Sharon: Thanks, Karen. You're always fun to talk to… with… talk from. 

00:22:16  

Kate B: That's our sunshine and stories for today, y'all. 

Kieran: If you want to hear even more about what other Colorado folks are up to in their libraries, check out libraries learn.org. For all our past and future learning opportunities. 

Suzi: This podcast is offered at no cost to listeners. Thanks to the time, effort and dedication of CSL library development consultants, as well as our state library colleagues and all our volunteer guests from across the field. 

Kate C: CSL projects like this one are funded in part by the grants to states program, which is administered by the Federal Institute of Museum and Library Services. 

Polly: The views, findings, conclusions or recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily represent those of the Colorado State Library Institute of Museum and Library Services or the US government. 

All: Thanks for joining us. We'll catch you next time. 

[music]