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Digging Deeper - Captain’s Mindset: Chloe Allen on Leading Malory to Glory
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In this episode of That Volleyball Guy Dig Deeper I’m joined by Chloe Allen, captain of the Malory Eagles Women’s team, who has just led her side to an unforgettable season, winning both the Super League and the National Cup. It’s been a long time since Malory were at the top, and Chloe gives us an inside look at how this team came together, grew in confidence, and found their winning edge.
Chloe takes us right back to her early volleyball roots, sharing how she first picked up the game playing in the garden with her sister, then fell in love with it properly during high school in California. She reflects on the impact her high school coach had on her game, mindset, and leadership style ,lessons that have stayed with her through every step of her journey.
She then talks us through her college years at the University of California Santa Barbara, where she spent four seasons competing at a high level, learning about herself both as an athlete and a person. After graduating, she moved across the world to London in September 2020 to pursue a master's degree at the University of East London, only to be met with lockdowns and COVID restrictions. Despite the challenges, Chloe eventually found her way into the heart of the UK volleyball scene, joining Malory Eagles and becoming a key figure in their return to greatness.
We dig into what it’s like playing in the Super League, what sets Malory apart as a club, and how coaches Jefferson Williams and Carol Gordon have built such a strong, supportive, and driven team culture. Chloe speaks openly about the journey to winning the double, the hard work behind the scenes, and what it means to be part of something bigger than yourself.
For anyone thinking about stepping into a captaincy role, Chloe also shares her top tips on leadership from building trust and unity to navigating tough moments and motivating others. Her experience and wisdom make this a brilliant listen for aspiring leaders, coaches, and teammates alike.
We round things off with Chloe’s thoughts on what’s next for her, how she sees volleyball evolving in England, and a fun final round of This or That to finish.
This is a great conversation about commitment, culture, and character — and one you won’t want to miss
Connecting Through Conversation
That Volleyball Guy Hello, I'm Luke Wiltshire, the host of that Volleyball Guy, and if you love volleyball as much as me, then you're in the right place. That Volleyball Guy Hello, and welcome to another episode of that Volleyball Guy with me, luke Milcher, and you're joining us for a special Digging Deeper conversational episode in partnership with Volleyball England. Just a reminder, then, that these episodes are conversational, feature-long episodes where I'm joined by some amazing guests, and if you haven't listened to any of these episodes yet, then why not go back and listen to my conversation with Sam Shenton, head coach of Newcastle Knights. What a conversation that was, sharing his insights as a coach and as an ex-player moving into coaching. And then, more recently, go back and listen to the conversation with Deb and Bob Pickens from Volleyball Development Camps, who two absolute legends, people that have given so much time to the sport and developed so many juniors over the years, and what again. What a conversation.
Speaker 2:To be honest with you, I could have probably had a three-hour conversation with them, to have known them for such a long time, and it was just a pleasure to sit down and talk all things volleyball, but away from the noise of the National Volleyball Centre in Kettering and a proper conversation and I have got a proper conversation lined up for you tonight with another fantastic guest, an athlete that I've had the pleasure to commentate on as part of the cup finals and Final Four weekend. Someone who is an absolute machine on court, and we'll get into conversations about that and some of her playing abilities. But today I am joined by ex-University of California, santa Barbara, athlete for four years in that programme, moving to the UK in September 2020. And now the current captain of the Mallory Eagles women's team, who this year done the double by winning the league and the cup final. I'm really pleased to be joined by Chloe Allen. Chloe, hello and welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Hi, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:And thank you for giving up your time and we've had to reschedule this call before because I've not been very well, but we're here, we got there in the end and thank you for giving up your time of course we're powering through well, we'll try my best and I might cough a few times, but we'll be fine.
Speaker 2:Um so, chloe, like I said in the introductions, I've had the opportunity to uh, watch you over the last couple of years and part of the commentary team for Volleyball England and done some comms for some of your matches, and this year managed to just have the pleasure of watching the cup final this time around, and what a game that was, which I'm sure we're going to come on to. But I'm really excited just to find out more about you and share some of your insights.
Speaker 1:So I want to start the conversation, like I do with all of my guests around tell us more about your introduction to the sport and how you got involved in volleyball yeah, so I actually have an older sister who I kind of just followed around, um, when I was younger and when she got to about like 12, 13, we had a couple babysitters who had been on actually, the University of California Santa Barbara volleyball team and so they were watching us and they would kind of help her play and then help me play, and so she's joined a club team one year and obviously the next year I had to join as well and I would just join in some of their practices and that, um, and so then I just kind of stuck with it ever since and uh, we've got something in common.
Speaker 2:See, I love these conversations because my introduction to volleyball is the same. My brother played volleyball, so followed in your, your older siblings footsteps, so, um, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned that you got involved in club volleyball, so tell us maybe a little bit more about that yes, I feel like the club scene in um america, and specifically california, is so much different like pretty much everyone plays for a club team outside of their school team. It's quite like you train two to three times a week, travel two plus hours to games on weekends, so I feel like it just gets you started on kind of like an intense course quite early, but it was also very fun. It's a way to meet people from other schools which you don't get to do very often. But yeah, I got involved in that when I was about 12 13.
Speaker 2:Awesome. And what about other sports? Any other sports you played at that time?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I played football um, or soccer as we would call it, but uh yeah, football here, um, and then I also did track and field. I did some throwing in high school, but those are my main three.
Speaker 2:And so what was it then about volleyball that, you know, maybe hooked you or got you a bit more committed than the other sports?
Speaker 1:I think I got to a point in football where I was just towering over everyone and getting uncalled for fouls just because I knocked everyone over. So I figured volleyball was a better fit for me and then, yeah, I just liked it a lot more than track and field. I like the team aspect a bit more than solo competition, so stuck with it.
Speaker 2:And did you have the the pleasure of being able to? You know, some people don't know how lucky they are when you've got a sibling that you can pepper with and you can dig and spike within the garden, right? I'm sure there was many summers where you spent out in the garden with your sister.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Like we. I think we pushed each other to be a lot better because she was only one year above me in school, so we play on the same high school team. We were always going to club trainings together and then we actually played at like at two universities within the same conference. We would play each other every year, um.
Speaker 2:so I don't know how fortunate I felt in that moment, but we definitely um egged each other on, which I think led to a better outcome so, for those of the listeners that you know, talk us through maybe like high school volleyball before we talk about college and university, like, talk us through high school volleyball and what that looks like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think that's like your first introduction into being on like a real school team. So we trained every day after school and then had games where you could get a big crowd and all your friends were there. So it was the first kind of sense of like pressure moments. Obviously you can put that pressure on you when there's not a crowd there, but having people and spectators be there was a a taste of what it could be like at a higher level. So that was quite nice, um, and you got to play with people of all different ages, like spanning four years. So you're 14 playing 18 year olds which is kind of wild, um, at that age, but it was. It was really fun to be able to be in that community and just have everyone um be in a academic environment where volleyball is not their main focus. But also when you come to training you have to kind of lock into that separate side of yourself.
Speaker 2:So yeah, interesting.
Speaker 2:Like I mean, it's so alien to those growing up in England, like we just don't have that, like like I went to a school where volleyball was quite popular and we trained twice a week, um yeah but you know to train every day and to play in front of a crowd like that's obviously gives you such a good footing and a good starting point, for you know the life of a professional athlete and playing in front of crowds but talk. So talking about that sort of high school volleyball then have you got any sort of like really early vivid memories or matches or maybe coaches from that era that have influenced you?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean, my high school coach was probably one of the most influential coaches I had. I had known her since growing up. She was probably one of the most influential coaches I had. I had known her since growing up. She was actually one of the babysitters I spoke about that played in my town. We just had a really great relationship. But I was actually a freshman I was the only freshman on the varsity team and so that was like a core memory for me of just interacting with these people who are four years older than me. I think you're such a little dweeby teen and don't really want to be your friend, but then also kind of get forced into this role with you and then everyone older is coming to watch and just being so nervous to be the like odd man out, but then again also having, like my coach, who I was quite close with my sister there. It was a very formative experience but in a very odd way of feeling so alien but also so comfortable.
Speaker 2:Now I'm going to pick up on two points there, really. So the first one was you mentioned that that coach was so influential on you. Why, what was it about them and why were they so influential on you, do you think?
Speaker 1:I think she was the first coach that was actually quite hard on me.
Speaker 1:She knew me very well and she was the same position in college and so she just wouldn't take any of my attitude. Um, and she just she would like make me run when I did stupid things, even like regardless if I was younger, regardless if I was, or on my senior year, regardless if I was the only senior. She just held me accountable for everything that year and I got to be with her for four years, whereas every other coach I had had been like one, maybe two years. So she really got to be with me for that whole progression and even like the college hunt. She was a huge like influence in that part talking to coaches for me, advising me on what I'm looking for and that sort of thing. And also she was still good at that point when she was coaching so she could play with us and I would be like, oh okay, gotta listen to her because she actually knows what she's talking about. So I think that kind of makes a difference in a teenage mind.
Speaker 2:It so important, isn't it? Like sometimes you forget as coaches, um, like I coach right and played volleyball to a fairly decent standard no, no end there like the standard you played up. But like sometimes, when I'm coaching, I, I, I dig a ball and people look at me oh god, he can, he can, he can do it yeah, I think it definitely makes people clue in a bit.
Speaker 1:They're like, oh, they actually know what they're talking about. Like I listen now yeah and um.
Speaker 2:So when you said about you know, playing in front of a crowd and those sorts of things as a as a female athlete, and I wonder if you could share some insight then because, as you will have seen from maybe the cup final weekend, you'll see that volleyball england are trying to sort of also push junior volleyball um, and you know, this year the cup final is being played in front of a crowd um noise at the the national volleyball center before your your matches um.
Speaker 2:Going back a while, and I've been around volleyball in this country for a while it's not always been like that. Often the finals might take place at an external venue and not in front of a crowd and those sorts of things. And as a commentator and part of the commentary team, I got to see that some of those young athletes really struggled with that, you know, because it's mindset and it's new, it's something that they're not used to. What advice would you have then like if you could go back to younger, your younger self? What advice would you share with maybe younger players that are stepping onto the big court for the first time?
Speaker 1:I think it's really just to embrace it. I mean, you can't let. I think. Well, half of me says just completely tune it out, don't listen to anything. And then half of me says, embrace it, because if they're cheering for the other team, maybe they're even heckling you like they're trying to throw you off. You got to just let it go and focus on who's on the court and what you're going to do the next play.
Speaker 1:I think that's the beauty of volleyball is it's so fast that you get to just be like, okay, forget that, now we're on to the next one, and so kind of have your own, keep your own space and focus on what you're going to do next. And then the other half of me is like, yeah, if they're cheering for you, use that energy, because volleyball is also a huge energy sport. You need all the momentum you can get and get that to rally your team and push you even further. So, um, use it when it advantages you and then block it out when it's when it's getting in your head. It would be my advice really good, really good advice.
Speaker 2:I mean. Someone once told me a quote, which I love, which is, like you know, the past has happened. The future hasn't happened yet. All you've got is the now. Right, and just focus on the now and enjoy the moment and be present and, like you say, enjoy it. You know and just and go for it. And you clearly do that in your games and shows that you know, and some of the other American athletes that have come over to this country you can see that they're used to playing on that level. You know playing in much in front of much bigger crowds, I imagine. Do you, do you know the biggest crowd you've ever played in front of? Do you know the number?
Speaker 1:I don't, unfortunately. Um, no, sorry, putting you on the spot there. Talk to us, then, a little bit more about the move to college and the University of California in Santa Barbara. Talk to us about that and your experience there. Really hard transition for me.
Speaker 1:Um, going from kind of a smaller team, um being one of the better players, to going to like a really good program and having people who are just so much better than you and again so much older than you, um, kind of going from a big fish small pond to a small fish big pond moment was a definitely an adjustment period, but it was also a great period where you get to meet, like some of your closest friends, like the people that you make it through that experience with stick with you for a long time. So that was nice. But it was also just adjusting to the intensity of the trainings. Right, you're waking up at 6am, you're going to weights and you're going to conditioning, then you're going to training, then you're going to classes and then you might have a second training. So it's just nothing, nothing you could be prepared for, like, everyone tells you how intense it's going to be and yet you're still not ready for it until you get there, but it's also a very formative experience and how do you get through it then?
Speaker 2:how do you, how do you do that every day? And you, you know, wake up gym, wait. You know. I'm sure there was classroom sessions as well, and analysis and stats.
Speaker 1:How do you do that as well as studying full time? Go to sleep at about 8 pm every night was basically my strategy. But also I think that having people who have gone through it so I think that's when me and my sister got the closest is when we were like, oh my God, we're so miserable, but also just got to keep pushing through and then, like you have your friends around you. I found it very easy to just kind of dislike when I had free time to just disassociate and do something that I wanted to do, which was really nice. But it's really just a mindset. Like you know, you're there for volleyball, especially if you're going in on a scholarship in America. It's such a different mindset, like that is why you're in college. Your studies obviously come first, but you are there to play volleyball and so that's kind of what keeps you going the whole time is and it's you don't have an option, you got to do it, so yeah you.
Speaker 2:You said something like it's like a, I imagine like a switch, right, you'd switch that brain from. This is what I'm being paid to do, this is what I need to do, this is what I and you and you treat it like a job and a and a career, right yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:There's just yeah, you don't like you can't. I think that that was a big adjustment for me when I came to England actually is, you can't just not show up to practice. So when I came here, I was like, oh what, I have a cold, I can just not go. But there it's like you have to show up every single day and you have to go to everything um, unless you're on your like, your deathbed or have an injury. So yeah, it's a full-time job yeah, no, it's so interesting.
Speaker 2:And again like, uh, I'm curious to know, like, what's? Talk us through, like a, a training session at your, at your university, at your college. Talk us through like how does that work? Like the themes, the, the sort of style.
Speaker 1:Talk us through, maybe, what training felt like um, it depends if we're prepping for like a specific game, so like if we're in season, a lot of times we'll get there like 30 minutes early. Just the team will have a little prep session in the locker room, kind of get yourself hyped up, and then a lot of times we'll start with um film. So we'll sit in our like media room and watch either a different team play or our team play, look at stats from games, look at players, look at tendencies, and then a lot of times we had volunteers, so like for our team we had men who played on a club team and they would try to emulate players from the teams we were about to face. And then we would do like a bit of. We'd do like a 30 minute warmup and probably some serve and pass drills, and then we would do breakout courts. So just between our team we have three courts going.
Speaker 1:So like outsides would go to one court, liberos would go to one court and middles would go to another, and then you work on something specific, whether that's hitting hands, whether that's more service-y for liberos, defense, just anything, and then generally around like this, like after two hours then we would do a final hour of 6v6 um, whether that has a focus or whether it's just kind of who can get the best stats to be on the starting lineup the next week? Um yeah, but it was very focused, so we had, like the majority of our time was like small skill oriented.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, so yeah and what was your and what was your sort of? Were you there for four years, did I? Yeah, so what was that? What was that? Four year, like first year, second year, third year, four year.
Speaker 1:Talk us through this sort of journey and your own journey through those four years yeah, so the first year I went in um it was it was like two older girls who had like gotten their starting spot and then me and another freshman were kind of fighting it out for that, basically third position of who would get on when someone wasn't performing um. So it's kind of in and out um, but just kind of adjusting to the lifestyle and whatnot.
Speaker 1:And then my sophomore year I played all the time. It was just me and one other outside pretty much. We had a lot of injuries that whole season so played a lot. And then after that year I hurt my back so I actually had I hurt my back so I actually had what's it called a disectomy where I had two herniated discs, and so I got surgery that summer and so missed the majority of my junior year or the. Or actually I got the surgery in my junior year season, missed or was there but not really playing for that season. And then my senior year came back after the surgery, was playing there but not really playing for that season. And then my senior year came back after the surgery, was playing but not actually like I wasn't in the starting lineup and that, and then just kind of seeing where I would go from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if you had to pick one of the years as your sort of favorite year at your time there, which year would it be?
Speaker 1:um, I mean obviously I would say probably my sophomore year where I was playing a lot, but also that year was very hard for me mentally because I felt like I didn't have a sub. So even if I wasn't performing well, it was just so mentally taxing to be like I have to stay on this court and I have to figure it out myself. There's no one to help me was probably my most like fun year because I had just come back from surgery we had brought in other people in. I didn't really have super high aspirations of starting and playing a ton because I knew I was leaving and so I just got to have the most fun with it. Obviously I showed up and did what I could to help the team, but I was just there for a good time kind of, and so I think that was a very freeing position to be in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome and you said earlier then that you, you, you played your sister during this time so how was that like? Who won?
Speaker 1:it went back and forth. Honestly, um, yeah, it was a. It was a very odd experience, but also so much fun. So we would play two games um each season one home and one away versus her, and the one that was home was in my hometown and so basically all of my family, friends, all of my family would come out watch us together. My parents would have a huge party before the games, after the games, um, so they loved it. My dad would wear two shirts with both our faces on it and flip them up, like when someone, one of us, did something good. Um, so, yeah, it was good and it was fun to see her get to play and like it was very funny to do, like the scouting reports on her and be like, oh yep, know that one um, but yeah, it was. It was a very cool experience. I would say I loved it.
Speaker 2:Your dad always won, right, because yeah, he'll win either way.
Speaker 1:I think my dad loved it either way and my mom hated it, because you also always lose because one of us was always fuming after the game.
Speaker 2:Did you ever fall out with your sister during that time, or was it always quite sort of competitive and or no?
Speaker 1:I I think playing against each other was actually easier for us and being on the same team yeah, I can imagine, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, um, I want to sort of pick your brains a little bit. So about about your playing and your technical sort of advice and some insight. So you've been playing as an outside hitter, that's where I've seen you play, but have you always?
Speaker 1:been an outside hitter. Yeah, pretty much. I think the only time I ever played anywhere different was my first season with Mallory. Jeff tried to make me an opposite, but then after that I went straight back and I don't have any plans of leaving.
Speaker 2:So are you saying Jefferson got it wrong?
Speaker 1:I mean, it worked out fine, so he might have gotten it right, but in my stubborn brain he got it wrong.
Speaker 2:So talk us through what you think makes a good outside hitter. Tell us some of your secrets. What?
Speaker 1:you what you think makes a good outside here, like tell us some of your secrets, um, I think it's really just watching the game, like I think obviously serve receive is a huge aspect that makes a good out outside or a great outside, like I think you have to be able to take a lot of court and improve yourself on that defensive aspect, but also just like reading from middle back is huge. And then also being able to like see hands, see where on the court is open, cause, like, realistically, you have the most time out of most hitters because of the balls traveling the furthest and especially, you get set the most out of system. So being able to see what the other team is doing in that time where you're preparing to swing, um, definitely makes a good hitter and where.
Speaker 2:How do you think your outside hitting has like evolved over the years? Like what do you think your strongest part of your game is now?
Speaker 1:I think I've definitely like, as I'm here and as I'm not as volleyball oriented or a fitness oriented, I think I'm definitely losing some power, but getting smarter and seeing, like, like I said, watching the game more and more, I just add with experience, and so I think I'm becoming much more tips and roll shots versus just trying to power through every time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that would be the biggest change but you gotta have like as a hitter right, you gotta have variety in your shots and your offense. You've got to be able to. You know it's great that you can get a murderable and kill it inside the three meter line, but if you come up against a huge block you're gonna have to tip it or take out the setter if they're back row, right. So I think I you know, as a coach myself, I I need to have a mix of players.
Speaker 2:I need intelligent players that know volleyball IQ and sometimes you do just need that hit and that's just going to go up and bounce a ball.
Speaker 1:But having someone who can do both is surely like it's a dream, yeah it doesn't always give you the glory to get a tip kill, but it definitely a point, is a point. That's what you gotta say.
Speaker 2:I couldn't agree with you more. Um and so what about your sister then? Was she an outside hitter? I'm just again curious both outside hitters yep cool, that's really cool. So let's move on the conversation to how you transition from the USA to England and to to London Mallory, where you are now. So I'm aware, and I know that from conversations with you, that you, you moved over to the UK in September 2020. Um, obviously, covid, um, talk us through your move and transition from the States to to England yeah, it was quite.
Speaker 1:It was quite a whirlwind actually, because I was trying originally to play a fifth year in the States Because, as I mentioned previously, I missed one of the years for when I had my back surgery. So I had a red shirt year is what we call it and so I had one more year of eligibility. But then it kind of fell into my lap that like I had never heard of UEL or didn't know anyone who had come abroad to play and get a master's, and then all of a sudden it kind of popped up and so I was like, absolutely, that sounds like the opportunity of a lifetime. And so it was quite late, it was after I had already applied to everywhere in the states and like kind of already decided. I was like actually, let me just completely redo that and we're going to try London.
Speaker 1:And so obviously in that full lockdown it was a weird time, just be like waiting, being like Can I go? Am I stuck here? What do I do? And I was chatting with Ian and he's like we'll see, we don't know, so just kind of playing by ear. And then I think I got a message and it was like OK, in two weeks you can come. And so I was like, ok, I guess I'm going.
Speaker 1:So just packed up and kind of made it over here, had to do the full two weeks of quarantine in the uni accommodation, which was not my happiest time, but made it through. And then, yeah, I was one of the first people here actually for UEL, did a couple trainings and then we got switched into only six people per training, so that was a little difficult. And then we went into full lockdown again where we couldn't do anything. The season officially got cancelled so I was just doing an online master's basically after coming all the way to England to play volleyball, um, but that's okay. Like we made friends with the team at the time, so we had a bit of a social group. And then I was even more excited for the following year to play for Mallory.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that must have been tough for someone who's you know, from sharing what you shared about the intensity of playing in the States and training every day and being with your team and being with your like, with your core right and with your group, to all of a sudden being in a foreign country you know, away from home, in a place you've never been before and not allowing, not being allowed to do the thing that gives you probably that safety volleyball right, the thing that you know.
Speaker 2:So how did you deal with that, like mentally as well?
Speaker 1:It definitely was an odd experience, um, but luckily we like the strength and conditioning uh program or like that room, stayed open pretty much the entire time. So even though we weren't playing volleyball, we were still allowed to go to lift and we still had pretty like regimented um programs for us, which was nice, which made me feel like I was still in something. And then, as like the volleyball players came over, we all just like made friends kind of, even without training. So I still felt like I had that community of everyone, was like kind of in the same boat of like. Yeah, we all just played in the states. Like that year, I think we had like 10 Americans coming in and then we were all living pretty much together. So, minus the volleyball, it was actually not too bad Like it was. We all were stuck together anyways, so it was okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:Had you been to England before, or was that your first? Was this your first time over here?
Speaker 1:I had been when I was about like 10. So like didn't quite remember all of it, but I knew that I liked it enough, um, so I was quite excited to come back, but then it was still felt pretty much like a new experience, which was nice moving.
Speaker 2:So you're moving over in September. I'm sure you were like shocked by the weather, right?
Speaker 1:it's the pride. It's funny you say that because the day I flew in it was sunny and warm and I was getting. I was like, oh, this is gonna be easy.
Speaker 2:And then it went downhill very quickly and I was like, oh, lockdown in the rain is tough yeah, you learn that, chloe, right, I'm sure you've learned that now, in this country, you have to be prepared for all weather eventualities in one day it could be sunny in the morning but chuck it down with rain in the afternoon.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I remember, though that that COVID summer, so the sort of like May, june time it was hot, like it was, like it was a nice summer yes, it probably was one of the nicest I've experienced here, which again set me up for false pretenses.
Speaker 1:I was like oh, I can do this, At least we got the summer. And then the next one was horrible and I was like oh no.
Speaker 2:So you weren't able to. So I believe your first season then with Mallory was the 2022-2023 season, right?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So you've been at Mallory now this is your third season, right, awesome. So let's talk a little bit more about Mallory. So Mallory, a huge club in this country. You know like so much history with that club and especially Jefferson and Carol and Ian. Um, you know icons of our sport. Um, talk me through, like some of your like early memories of you know, first couple of training sessions and getting to know jefferson and carol like what, what are your, what are your memories of that?
Speaker 1:I mean I feel like you gotta start off with carol. She's a freaking legend. Like her energy, her whole vibe is just unforgettable and I was like this is supposed to be our coach. She feels like she's just ready to have a good time and she just is so passionate but also so caring and just wants to bring everyone together all the time. So like having her be your coach, it was a crazy experience. I was like this is crazy because I actually just want to hang out with you as a person, let alone play for you. So that was very nice. And then Jeff is just. He's also so passionate just even seeing him talk about volleyball. He just he wants and we all have this like running joke through the first seasons of oh, he's never happy, he never will cheer for us, and it's just because he's never satisfied, like he actually just expects the world of us and thinks we could be so good that I think this year was maybe the first time we've seen him happy with us.
Speaker 2:So but I was gonna. I was gonna come on to this later, but I think it feels natural now, right. So the dance moves right, let's just talk about the dance moves for a second we've all seen it um how when's Jefferson gonna join in never he would.
Speaker 1:He's not a dancer. He says I'll sit here and watch you guys from afar, but he leaves that domain to Carol.
Speaker 2:Absolutely he doesn't want any part so, um, let's rewind a little bit and talk about mallory. So I haven't got it to have, but I've known mallory for a long time. Um, they were dominant in british volleyball and english volleyball for a long time. Um, winning the league, I think it was again, don't quote me on this, I need to go back and fact check it but they won the league. You'll probably know they won the league. You'll probably know they won the league for like every year for a long time, especially in the men's program. And then they sort of had this dip and I remember challenging Carol and asking Carol a difficult conversation when she was on this show about you know why? Why haven't you been able to win it, like you won it every year? What's changed? Mallory women not winning the title since the 2009-2010 season? So 15 years ago, their last title win, their last league win, and you managed to do it this year. So obviously I'm going to ask you how? What's it been like? Let's talk about this season.
Speaker 1:Uh, maybe start off by talking to us about training, intensity of training and why this year has been the year for for you I think this year was just kind of a culmination of people, the right people coming in at the right time, um, like we've had a core group for a couple years now, but with a couple of dishes, and we were always so close for a couple years now, but a couple additions just brought us to the next level, um, and we've all just every single year we've just become closer and closer and closer, right um so, and we've had so many people like our depth this year was crazy.
Speaker 1:I think we had like six outsides at one point, so our trainings can be a full six on six, where no side is lacking. So I think that helped us exponentially. And then I think I've said this before somewhere else but I think the biggest thing for us this year was Grace going back to her original position as a middle, like that was a huge game changer. And then bringing georgia in um middle of the season, like those two people, just because even I think that was the last game we lost, or the only game we lost to polonia was right before georgia came in, and then after that we just couldn't slow down, like it was just, um, exactly what we needed at exactly the right time.
Speaker 2:So I think, and I think everyone bought into the goal this year, which was nice to see yeah, so you're right, you, you lost one match all season in the regular season, right, and that was to uh side out Polonia. Uh, I think it was 18th of january, and then since then you've been unstoppable, you have been fierce, you've been, you know, like I spoke to carol um after the match briefly, uh, after your cup final match, and she was like I've never seen these, this group, train like they trained the other day. You wanted it. So how does you've alluded to the depth? Right, like as a coach, I always I talk a lot about depth. You need depth for lots of reasons training intensity, injuries. You're going to get injuries in the season, but you're right, like, you've got a group of of girls and group of women there that you know some of them might not have seen the court that much this season, but how important is it, from your experience, to have that depth, do you think?
Speaker 1:Oh, it's like it is a make or break factor, especially at this level, I think, when all of us have other commitments right, where, like 99% of us are working full-time jobs, we can't make every weekend and even if we can, like you said, there's injuries, there's there's family commitments, like there is just people have off days, they're tired, they've been worn out, so like we could not do, we could not perform at the same level without the depth we have.
Speaker 2:Just having those people who can step in and the rest of the team feels no difference makes such a difference, like you don't win those big games without them yeah, definitely, and I, and I recall I think there was a weekend I think you played again I'm using my memory here I think you played Leeds Gorse and another team where both games went five. Was that right in the weekend? Um, so yeah, like talk to us about that weekend, because that could have gone like you lose both those games and all of a sudden it's different, it's a different story, right? So how do you, how do you win a five set thriller in the super league like share?
Speaker 1:tell us that was a tough weekend for us, honestly. Um, we were missing our starting libero, ari um. She was in the states, actually, I think, for a wedding, so obviously we have patty um, who's our second libero, but then we also had like four outsides on the bench, so it was a matter of are we going to pull one to be a backup libero? Are we going to keep everyone hitting and just trust what we got? Um, but both of those games and we had traveled up early to leeds that morning, I think we were just not entirely in it um, but both, both of those games.
Speaker 1:I feel like we talked so much about how much character we showed. It was that everyone, even in the bad moments, we were still coming together. We were still like, encouraging each other to do the best. The sideline was talking to us about what the people on the court needed to do, but I think that our bond between our team is what pulls us through those games. Like sometimes we look across the net and we're like oh yeah, they're falling apart, like they're bickering. That never happens on our team. Like we're all together all the time, like you got this, like we believe in you get out of your head. Like just trust yourself, and we trust you, and so I think that that's how we pull ahead in those tight moments where um a lot of teams have struggled with that.
Speaker 2:I mean from an outsider's perspective. Looking in is what you've got, and like your, your culture and your intensity, your ethos, all those things like just looking in, like I'm a bit of a geek about body language and what I do for my professional, for my professional life and, like I said to people in the audience, like this team, are unstoppable. You can just see it like. You can see it like I call it, like flow, like all of a sudden everything's working and right. Sometimes volleyball you win ugly, but you can win um, right, yeah, you're what you've got. I think if you're, if you're listening to this podcast and you haven't watched Mallory Eagles this season play, go back on the YouTube channel and Volleyball England's YouTube channel and try and watch some of their performances, because you're right like there's been times right that I've watched you where you've gone down in games and all of a sudden you're back in it and it's like, how have you done that?
Speaker 2:like you were six points down and now you're back to equal yeah it's a lot of trust a lot of trust and I think a lot of coaches and a lot of teams out there would, you know, love to be able to take what you've done. And I think it leads me on to the next part of this conversation, really about you and your role as the captain of this team. You know so great teams have great captains, so let's talk about your captaincy and what you think makes a good captain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think this team is easy, like they really don't need a lot of leadership in trainings on the court.
Speaker 1:I think the biggest thing I have to offer is just emotional consistency. I'm not super energetic all the time, but I also don't get super flustered, and I think that we have people on kind of both ends of those spectrum, and so to have that middle ground is pretty like what I offer. And I think that maybe in moments when, like we're struggling, yes, I'll have a couple of words to say, but I think for the most part, like this team, we lead as a group, like everyone has their moments where they stepped up, um, everyone has their moments where, at training, they've had to be the one to be like, hey, come on, like let's get it together, um, so I wouldn't even say it's me, that's the one leader of this team. I think it's just this group is so bonded that, yes, maybe I may be the face of the leadership, but it's not just me, it's everyone leads from within well, to have a team of leaders again like every, every coach's dream.
Speaker 2:Like so, um, what's the most, what's the what's the hardest part of being a captain, do you think?
Speaker 1:I mean, I think there's always going to be little issues here and there, and that's kind of when people do look to me to to voice their issues, and whether or not we agree on them is kind of where I struggle. I don't want, like I never want, people to be upset and then kind of having to be the mediator between players and coaches, um, and just trying to be able to see both sides. I think the one thing maybe we had a bit of an issue this year was on playing time, and so it's hard to have those conversations with people where you're like, listen, I'm not the coach, you're not the coach. Yes, you may have a different idea, but we got to respect and their role, um, and not take it too personally, um. So I think for me that's been the toughest is kind of knowing that we're all friends, but also when I gotta be like, hey, cool, your jets a little bit, so, um, it's a fine line fine line indeed, but you obviously do it very, very well.
Speaker 2:Um, and you said like we talked about depth in the squad and you just alluded to it then that sometimes that has its problems right, with people not being happy with their court time, um, but sometimes do you think it's? You know, when you're in, when you're in such a good place, like you were this season, it's hard to like. You know, if you're on the bench you just want to be part of it. Um, so it. But but to have a captain there who's sort of like doing that groundwork for the coach and having those conversations when the coach is back his turn or when they can't, you know, here in whatsapp groups, or like, that's so important to have a coach and relate your relationship with a coach. So tell us more, maybe a little bit, about your relationship as captain with the coach.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think we get on great. I think that we, even when we disagree, we try our best to like see eye to eye. So we've had a lot of conversations about a lot of different games and and over the years. I think that like channel of communication has just grown so much. Because in my first year I maybe voiced some like discontent with decisions made at like intense moments and they wouldn't really be like yeah, well, it was a coaching decision, like that's just my prerogative. I'm like, okay, that's fine, like that's your role. But as I've kind of grown into this role, I think they find that I'm willing to have a conversation. So long as you tell me a reasoning, I could be quite happy with it.
Speaker 1:I don't think they obviously I have a lot of trust in them as well Like they want to win at all costs. They will only do what they think is best for the team. Um. So I think we've just had a lot of conversations and we've started to kind of see similarly, um, and now when they make decisions, I'm like, oh, I know what he's thinking. Even like sometimes in trainings, jeff won't explain a drill. I'm like, okay, come on, you're here. You're here, you're here, just like we know what this is three years down the line, he doesn't need to communicate, uh, so I think that relationship has gotten to a really special place of kind of thinking the same way and just trust.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, having, yeah, like you said, having a having a good captain is so crucial, and if you have that relationship with your coach where the coach doesn't need to say you can read it, you can read their mind, like you know what they're thinking, then that that is so, so key. So I'm going to put you on the spot, chloe, and say so. Imagine that someone's getting their first experience as captain. Okay, what are the what? What is your biggest piece of advice for someone who's new to a captain role?
Speaker 1:I think it would coming from again when I say I do well. I think it would coming from again when I say I do well. I think it's just to keep your emotions in check, right, like you need to be that stable force on the court. Hypothetically, as a captain you are. You're not coming off the court, right. So you need to be able to weather the storms and the highs without like making anyone too hectic. People are going to look to you when they make mistakes and you need to be that sense of calm for them, but then they're also going to look to you in the highs and you also need to be right there with them, but also still level. They can't get distracted like. You need to just kind of be that median for them. And and then again I would just say, lead by example you need to be locked in. You can't have a day when you're just messing around like you got to. You're there to perform. I think would be the two main things you gotta.
Speaker 2:You're there to perform. I think would be the two main things. Well, if you're listening, take note, because that is some great advice from Chloe there about how, how to take on the captaincy role. It's a role that you know, some people are born to do it and some people struggle and, like, when you get a good one as a coach, they are worth their weight in gold.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, um, and you know, doing a bit of research on you and reaching out to some people, I I did reach out to one of the coaching team and they said that you are a huge role model within the team. You know a fabulous role model, and that's probably one of the most important behaviors, isn't it as a captain, to role model and lead by example. So so yeah, and on top of that, everyone, let's just give you some stats here. Right, the final four match against Essex Rebels, where you won 3-0, you had 17 kills. You've had 207 kills all season in the regular season Like that's impressive. And in the cup final, where Mallory won the cup final the first time they'd won it since 2006 Chloe, 16 points, 12 kills, three aces. You've got to be happy with that yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:I don't think I'm the strongest server, so to get those three aces, I was very happy awesome Chloe.
Speaker 2:look, I could, I could. I'm loving this conversation. I'm just conscious of our time, but I want to move on to find out a little bit more about Chloe, then, because we know you as the captain, the fierce athlete that's on that court, but what's life like for you outside of volleyball? So you mentioned earlier about full-time jobs, so maybe tell us a bit more about your career and what you do away from the volleyball court.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it still revolves around sports actually. But yeah, my job right now I work for a sports insurance company it's called Sports Cover, which I guess my fun fact would be that we actually insure Volleyball England. So it's just anything gyms, fitness related insurance for that. And then I guess my favorite part of it is that we get to go to a lot of sporting events so it kind of keeps me in the loop the Olympics, that sort of thing. So while I might not be playing or participating as much as I could, I still like to be involved in that world. I think working all the time is hard to do and you're not interested in it, but having it be something at least a little bit relevant keeps me, keeps me engaged.
Speaker 2:We spend a lot of time. We spend a lot of our work and our adult life work into some things we enjoy.
Speaker 1:Right, so yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And what about away from volleyball, then, and away from work? What do you do to let your hair down? What do you do for fun? What's what? What does? How do you do to let your hair down? What do you do for fun? How do you?
Speaker 1:recharge your batteries. I feel like I'm just going to be very cliche and say that I like to travel, like to spend time in the sun. I've been trying to get out more in England and explore more of England, because my default is to go abroad, but I'm going to try to find some hikes. So still staying active, I feel feel like it's the main thing. But, and getting out in nature, kind of having a sense of calm to get away from the stressful volleyball gyms basically the polar opposite but yeah, just hang out, and I hang out a lot with the girls on the team. So that's kind of my core group and maybe that's why it keeps us so close and bonded.
Speaker 2:But yeah, well, it's, you know, it's so important that you, you know, get on with your. Your spend a lot of time with your team, right? So to socialize and to to enjoy their company away from the volleyball court only makes the volleyball team stronger, from from my perspective. So, yeah, the fact that you do socialize and and bond with each other away from the court, probably, you know, is probably a huge testament to the results that you get on the court, as well as you all being amazing volleyball players as well, right?
Speaker 2:definitely yeah, so let's think about the future in volleyball and what, what, what are your aspirations with your volleyball game? Then you've mentioned earlier that you're like, you know, I'm not hitting the ball as hard as I used to, maybe, but like, where do you want to take your volleyball?
Speaker 1:That's a tough question because, if I'm being honest with you, I don't know how many more years I will be playing at this level. At least. I think I'm kind of at a point where I don't necessarily aspire for greater things, um, but I very much so enjoy it. I enjoy the team. I'm really hopeful that volleyball in England can continue to grow, because I think that's something I'm very excited to see happen. If I'm still a part of it, that would be great. But if I not, I'll still definitely be a happy spectator. But for now, I definitely think I'm coming back next season, but after that it's TBD and hopefully it's just a repeat of this year, because you can't go out on a loss.
Speaker 2:So then, if we don't, win, I'll be stuck here forever. Let's hope it's not a 15 year. Wait again, chloe, right, because absolutely not and always intrigued to ask those that play and playing at the top level um about coaching. So have you ever thought about going into the world of coaching?
Speaker 1:I have um here there, I think um kind of thought about it either here or at home. Um, at home it's just such a like it's a lucrative career, which is the polar opposite of here, kind of um, but and then here is a lot more qualifications to even be able to coach. So kind of weighing the options. It's obviously a big commitment as well. I think I would, um, time permitting and probably once I'm done, I think the player coach role is very difficult to do, so um, and I already feel like I invest so much time playing that I don't think I would be able to coach a separate team on top of it. So I think that might be a few years down the line if that happens. But I think that I would be interested to get into it because, like I said, volleyball England is just going to go up and up and up hopefully, and I would love to see that and maybe be a part of it.
Speaker 2:And what do you think you could bring to a coaching role then from your time and obviously playing in college volleyball and your time playing now for Mallory, like what do you think you could give to the world of coaching, do you think?
Speaker 1:I mean, I think there's an entirely different skill set. I think everywhere globally coaches like the finite skills a little bit differently. So I think that that would be interesting to see how that differs and just kind of how, like what stages you learn things at, because obviously beginners start with different skills and each coach has their own philosophy of how they're going to get people up to a high level. So I think just coming from a different country and a different type of program would be at least offer a different viewpoint and then, like we said, could potentially be the coach that they have to listen to, because they can prove that they know what they're talking about.
Speaker 2:Awesome and I think you know from everything you've shared with us on the show, then I think you'd make an excellent coach. So, when the time comes to hang up your shoes, definitely, definitely. You've got more to give, I think, and share your knowledge and wisdom. Think about that coach that you had in your high school. You could be that influential person to another young person and I think we don't often really understand as coaches how much of an influence and impact you have on the people that you coach. I know you've joked about Carol, but Carol, like you said earlier, gives so much of her life to volleyball, and to not just the volleyball but also the pastoral bit, right, the caring bit, making sure you're all okay like coaches in this country and, like you say, most of them doing it voluntary, like just a huge part of this sport. So, yeah, so you heard it here first, everyone, chloe Allen's going to be a volleyball coach, all right don't quote me on that so, chloe, look, we're coming to the end of the conversation.
Speaker 2:Um, what we do on this show is a bit of a tradition is the previous guest has left a question for you and not knowing who you were or not knowing who the next guest was. So this question was actually quite a big question, so I've split it down into two smaller ones, to two smaller ones to help you out. Um so, what do you think and you, you sort of were mentioning a minute ago what do you think and this question was from Bob Pickens, from Volleyball Development Camps, fellow American? Um, so what do you think the vision of volleyball should be in England?
Speaker 1:Oh, I mean, I personally think it should be to compete with the rest of Europe. I mean, I think it's a huge opportunity that maybe has been missed or maybe they didn't want necessarily from the beginning, but I think, especially coming from America and seeing how many people come over or go over to Europe to play professionally, I feel like they would love an opportunity to play in Europe that also speaks English. So I feel like they're missing out on a huge opportunity. And if the Super League can keep growing at the rate or even faster than it has been, it will in no time pick up to be a huge league in the world and I think that should be the aspiration.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I'm sure Jefferson and Carol have told you some stories of the Super League, of years gone by and what it used to be like and how much it's developed over the years.
Speaker 2:It's come on so much in the last couple of years, I must say like the, the standard and, yeah, just everything about it, like the, the, the stream and the cons and all those sorts of things. It's going to take the sport to the next level. And then the second part of this question was, uh, sort of linked to it, which is when do you think we could see the first pro club in England?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a tough one because I would love to say very soon, but I think it's a matter of finding the money is where it is what it is, I think the level and I'm sure you can entice people from all over the world to come here I don't think that's the issue. I think it's um getting the platform to be big enough to bring in those big sponsors to be able to fully fund the team, which I think everyone knows. It's not cheap, um, and so if I had to guess an actual time frame, my guess would be about five years wow, wow.
Speaker 2:there we go 2030,. Here we come, chloe. Thank you so much. You get the opportunity. I talked to you after we've recorded this episode, where you get to ask the next guest, the next question, so you get to think about that.
Speaker 2:But before I let you go, then, and before we wrap this conversation up, we'll finish with a bit of fun. We're going to finish with my favorite this or that game, so I'm going to ask you some questions just to find out a little bit more about you. Some are volleyball related, some are completely not volleyball related, but here we go, so early mornings or late nights- early mornings. Uk or USA lifestyle.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a hard one. I think it depends on the phase of life.
Speaker 2:It's going to be my answer. I just needed this one, you're dodging it Right now.
Speaker 1:UK.
Speaker 2:Okay, good answer Leading by example or being a vocal motivator.
Speaker 1:Leading by example. I knew vocal motivator Leading by example.
Speaker 2:I knew you were going to say that. Killing a bull or getting a roof block.
Speaker 1:Oh roof block.
Speaker 2:Yeah, voice note or a long text message.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go with the rogue one actually and say long text message.
Speaker 2:M&M's or Reese's Pieces.
Speaker 1:Reese's Pieces.
Speaker 2:Loud locker room music or quiet focus before a game.
Speaker 1:Ooh, I like both. But I'm going to say directly before a game is quiet focus. You do the loud music afterwards, right, I've seen the videos Exactly exactly or even an hour before, but right before is the focus time and you wait for the celebration.
Speaker 2:Dial in. And then my favorite question of all time time love to win or hate to lose?
Speaker 1:oh, that's, I think you gotta love to win.
Speaker 2:That's a good one, love to win chloe, look, thank you ever so much for your time. Uh, a thoroughly enjoyable conversation. I say it to every guest that I have on that I could do probably two, three, four hours, four hours. We could probably have you back in another time, but for me and, yeah, for the podcast and for all the people that are listening, thank you ever so much for sharing your insights and I hope you've enjoyed the conversation.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:So, guys, that's it. That's the conversation with Chloe Allen. You can, like I said, listen back to previous episodes now, but from me, luke Wiltshire, host of that Volleyball Guy, whatever you're doing, keep playing, keep supporting, but, most importantly, keep that volleyball spirit alive. Thank you for listening that Volleyball Guy.
