Alexa: [00:00:00] If you're listening to this podcast, then it's quite likely that you have experienced the joy that singing and music making can bring, and the power that it can have over our human experience. I don't know how many times I have sat in the theatre auditorium and felt chills in every corner of my body. I've cried. I've laughed out loud, and I've sat next to my pregnant sister and witnessed my unborn niece at the time, kicking and fluttering during Dreamgirls the Musical at the Savoy. 

But what happens when that power is taken into a palliative care setting? 

Well here to tell us all about that is the founder of music in hospices, Joseph Cavalli-Price.  

Joe is a musician, a musical director and vocal coach, and he's worked with the likes of Ramin Karimloo, Zizi Strallen and Victoria Hamilton Barrit. He is also been an educator at institutions like Italia Conti, Trinity [00:01:00] Laban and East15. 

Music In Hospices has received international recognition, and Joe is here to tell us about the importance of reframing palliative care, the really important role that the arts can play in such settings, and the collaborative research projects that Joe and Music in Hospices are involved with to continue this journey in transforming music and palliative care. 

You might just wanna have the tissues ready for this one.  

Joe, we are recording this on World Voice Day, so Happy World Voice Day. What are you doing to celebrate?  

Joe: Oh, happy World Voice Day. Um, maybe I'll celebrate by moderating my alcohol intake this evening over dinner, and not down an entire bottle of red wine.  

Alexa: Fair enough .  

Joe: Was that the answer you were looking for? 

Alexa: It, it's, it's not an answer I was expecting  

Joe: Vocal Health is very important, you know. But you know what? Every day is World Voice Day for me, Alexa, [00:02:00] because, you know, I, I wake up and I, and I listen to, I actually do wake up and the birds are singing outside. It's very picturesque. I mean Highgate in North London, so the birds are singing and you know, often find myself humming various tunes around the house. Usually things I've coached students on that are just ear worms.  

Alexa: And which don't sound as great on a bottle of wine.  

Joe: Exactly, exactly. Although, you know, we've all been there, haven't we? Oh, in rehearsals after a night out.  

Alexa: Yes. So if you had to write your own Wikipedia page, what would it tell us about you? 

Joe: Uh, that's a really good question. Gosh, I'm too British for this. It would probably say like musician vocal coach, broadcaster, writer, and then founder of Music in Hospices, which is my little social enterprise that, that brings the creative arts, live music to palliative care setting across the [00:03:00] uk. 

Yeah, quite diverse Wikipedia page. I also wear sort of like lots of colourful clothes and silly hats, so maybe that's, that would make it on there as well.  

Alexa: The Music in Hospices organisation has been recognised as one of the top 20 social enterprises of 2024 by Deutsche Bank. Firstly, what is the story which inspired Music in Hospices to be? 

Joe: Yeah, so it was, it was 2019 and, um, you know, my Mum sadly was very unwell. She had a terminal illness. And 2019 she was admitted for end of life care in a local hospice. And to be honest, it was the first time I had ever experienced hospice care. I had no idea what it was, nor what it meant. I didn't really understand the idea of a terminal illness either. And she was there for about a month and a half, and I felt pretty helpless to be honest. She was nonverbal, unconscious predominantly, so I didn't feel like I could communicate with her. 

And [00:04:00] on a walk around the hospice one afternoon, I discovered like this honky tonk piano tucked away in the corner of the hospice, covered in blankets and books. 

I wheeled it to my Mum's bedside and I opened the lid and I began to play Somewhere Over the Rainbow, We'll Gather Lilacs, really familiar tunes. And in that moment I sort of felt this incredible physical sensation of my breath steadying and my shoulders releasing, and my mind quietening. 

You know, it was just a really personal moment between Mum and I but it had this wider impact other patients and their families were telling me how they felt hope and joy and laughter for the first time in months, and how it connected them together, how it gave them their own special moments. And meanwhile, the staff were saying how wonderful it was to hear music across the wards and how much of a, a stress relief it was. 

And [00:05:00] yeah, even back in 2019, I realised that something special had happened, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what and why, and I definitely never could have foreseen Music in Hospices being this top 20 organisation. But the journey's sort of been incredible.  

Alexa: And how does it compare to something like music therapy? Is it, is it on the same sort of bandwidth as that?  

Joe: Yeah, so you know, music therapy and music performance are sort of two different things. Music Therapists are highly trained, specialist musicians that really key into the specifics of the, um, client that they're working with. You know, whether that's breath and movement, they often work on a regular basis within many healthcare organisations. 

 That could be to help a patient write a song or process emotions or some memory, um, recollection, whereas music [00:06:00] performance is, is slightly different. So Music In Hospices is something slightly different. We go in with, well established professionals, sometimes world class musicians. And we really just perform, you know, we perform and the performances are completely spontaneous. So whatever the patient wants to hear in the moment, whether that's classical music, jazz, rock and pop, reggae, RnB, we can do it all. And we create in musical environments, which are conducive to social wellbeing and connections amongst patients, families, and staff members. 

Alexa: Can you tell us what is palliative care really?  

Joe: Hmm. Yeah, so I think people think like palliative care is just for people who are about to die and end of life. You know, that's not the case. Palliative care is treatment given to anyone with a life limiting illness. It's not only cancer, it could be any life limiting illness and for duration of [00:07:00] illness. 

So people could have months, years, days, weeks to live, it's very broad and it's not just medical, it's spiritual and psychological, emotional support as well as medical intervention, um for patients and their families. So they look after you as the whole individual, but they also look after your loved ones as well throughout the duration of your illness. 

 And it's free of charge in this country, which is amazing. So, our wonderful NHS and also through hospices, which are two thirds privately funded, but it's free of charge, for anyone in the country with any life limited illness.  

Alexa: What do you mean when you say it? It is time to rewrite the narrative on palliative care? Is it, is it like what you've just said, it's not for the cancer patients only, it's for anyone with a terminal illness.  

Joe: Yeah. I think you know the narrative around hospice [00:08:00] care and palliative care more broadly um has always been fear predominantly, and fear that it's sort of just about death and dying, and people will walk into these spaces with, people, having a, a very terrible time. 

And my experience, of hospice care, palliative care with my own mother was actually, grief aside and bereavement aside, was very positive actually, and very joyful. I remember the staff were very smiley and warm and comforting. I remember connecting with other families in the hospice and, and chatting to them and having cups of tea with them. 

I remember there was like this beautiful garden where you could hear the water trickling from the. There was like a library and , an area for children and young people. I was able to have some, some counseling there. I remember a male voice choir coming in to perform and it was just filled with life and [00:09:00] people living as fully as possible, you know. We're all really sort of , colourful, vibrant individuals, and it's my belief that we should live like that up until our final breath. And that's what hospices provide. They provide spaces for people to live fully and comfortably.  

Alexa: How have your musical studies do you think, and your experiences as a musician, influenced your approach to music, both as a teacher and in a palliative care setting?  

Joe: Yeah, I've been really lucky. Like I studied with the most amazing teachers at the Royal Welsh College of Music and the Royal Academy of Music. Also I trained as an opera singer at first, hence I'm on this wonderful podcast. And then I trained as a collaborative pianist. I had the most incredible experiences put from my performing at Buckingham Palace for the Coronation Festival for the Queen and the royal family with a choir called Only Boys Aloud. We did Britain's Got Talent. We placed third on that. [00:10:00] I remember singing with the wonderful choir, The Sixteen in Hampton Court Palace in Maudlin college in Oxford. 

I remember performing at the Wigmore Hall as a pianist with my duo partner as well as the Oxford International Song Festival Leeds Lieder, the International Lieder Festival in Holland. I remember studying in Paris as a singer and as an accompanist. I've been really fortunate to have all of these beautiful performance based experiences. 

 I think as I've like gone more into this community participation world, my mindset has changed from being on this never ending treadmill of seeking aclaim and notoriety and affirmation through high level performances and winning the best competitions you know, now viewing music as a very holistic, accessible, art form that is really for everyone. [00:11:00] So, you know, when I'm teaching at a good couple of institutions, everywhere from the Royal Academy of Music to Trinity Laban to Italia Conti, what I'm encouraging in my students is self-fulfillment and affirmation in their talent and guidance, but guiding them in a really sort of like dialogical way. 

So my relationship with the students is very like student teacher, teacher, student. So we both learn from each other and really my job is there to dialogue with them, to converse with them about the music, about their singing vocal technique. And really use the skills that I have to bring out what is really already inside of them, but they're just not quite sure how to unlock it yet. 

Concurrently, I always encourage in my students like a curiosity for music and the creative arts outside of simply performing, [00:12:00] you know, the life of a thing is really tough. You are putting in hundreds of hours of practice, learning time, performance time, commuting time, and the pool of work is relatively small, I think. 

And we're seeing cuts to music institutions across the country right now. And I think we can't, we can't sell students like a pipe dream. I think we have to be realistic. And so I always say that of course, invest time in honing your craft and in your performance. Never lose that and never lose your hunger for it. 

But also, don't be afraid to be curious about music in all its avenues. You know, whether that's community participation, whether that's research or education or , devising. I think music is much broader than we think actually, and the tools that we use for music and for singing. The communication [00:13:00] skills really can be harnessed for social good. 

Alexa: And, and the work that you do with going into hospices and singing for those people who are patients and families there, how does that then influence the way you go into your teaching work with people outside of those places?  

Joe: That's a really good question. I, I think the first thing to say is that singing is the most beautifully powerful tool that I, I think I've ever come across. I remember when I was a student at university, one of the first community events I did was as a singer, and we went into local nursing homes and community centers where individuals predominantly were suffering from dementia and, you know, singing, the musical theater, classic songs from the shows and seeing patients who were medically inaccessible and predominantly non-verbal. Their eyes lit up, a smile appeared on their face and they sang these songs word perfect, you know, every song [00:14:00] in fact. And at that point, I just remember looking around and going, oh my gosh, this is the most beautiful thing and this is what music is all about and this is what singing is all about. And I want that to always be part of my life. So similarly there's been a research done on singing and, and dementia, which is beautiful. Not so much done on singing and palliative care, but the reaction, the responses we've had to, to singing in, in, in our performances has been absolutely remarkable. 

Um, I could go on about this forever. But one that really sticks out is one of the first concerts we did and there was this beautiful Irish lady who, who was suffering from a brain tumor, just like my Mum did actually. And she was nonverbal and she was medically inaccessible, to hospice staff for about two weeks. 

And we were actually told, you know we're not, if there's benefit of you performing to her, we're not sure that she'll respond. And I said, well, listen, just tell me about her. And she said, okay, well, she's from a big Irish family. She [00:15:00] loves rugby. And they sort of told really quite basic information. So I started playing and singing Fields of Athenry and very gently within the first 40 to 60 seconds this woman arose from a coma and began singing the words of Fields of Athenry, like word perfect three verses. And at the end of the, performance, we were sort of all just like looking around like disbelieving in what had just happened. And, and from there we spoke at length about Her family, her loves, her losses, you know, going to the, the rugby games, talking about her daughter and her grandchildren, she had regained almost full cognition from one sung piece of music. And that is really incredible and how I engage with my students from that [00:16:00] is I think I experience that music and singing access is something like so deep within something so spiritual that we can't even begin to imagine. And so a lot of my vocal coaching is emotion based. And that's not method, that's not putting students into really vulnerable emotional states. That's just connecting with the music on a, on, on a fundamental like primal level.  

 And that's about like world building. And it's actually really fun. It's really fun. So I always explore with students this idea of cinematography, which is sort of when you're looking at a piece, I'd love you to build it in a way where if I'm switching my TV on and I'm watching you perform I can imagine this sort of Netflix like scene or storyboard appearing in front of me, and that's often revolving around like colours, sounds, [00:17:00] feelings, what we're wearing, hearing, smelling, touching, our relationship with the characters and the music. 

Something incredible happens, you know, and scientifically we know that's because of the vagus nerve. And, 90% of what we feel in our heart actually transmits to the brain. It's very beautiful. But , fundamentally it changes the way people breathe and the way they colour words and their tone of voice and the way they hold the space. 

 And suddenly those students then become exceptionally involved in the music, in a very safe, accessible way, but also something that will adapt and change every time they need to perform it. So I guess the link there is seeing how a song, transmits a palliative care, and seeing how it unlocks something within them and taking that same feeling and approach and just [00:18:00] changing the dynamic in which you apply it to a student in a conservatoire. 

Alexa: My mother-in-law used to do reflexology in hospices, and actually quite a sweet story was how she was working on a patient, in the hospice who had cancer. And it turned out that that was my granddad. And I found that out when I started dating her son. That she was working on my granddad's feet. 

Joe: That's incredible.  

Alexa: And she, she talked about how, you know, this sort of stuff when she was working in the hospices would have, they would've bitten your hand off to get you in, not that that would've been helpful. 'cause we need you to play the piano. 

Joe: I, you know, I'm pretty dodgy with both hands Let alone let, with just one. 

Alexa: I've heard you play you're amazing. But she was saying a story that she heard from a music therapist who came in where I think a, a lady was on oxygen. She wasn't, [00:19:00] able really to breathe without it, I'm probably adding bits in from the story that I've been told. You know how stories get recycled, but somebody started to sing Frank Sinatra's My Way, and she took her oxygen mask off and then belted out the next phrase when she hadn't really been communicating verbally because of her situation on the mask.  

Joe: You know, that's absolutely incredible. It's absolutely incredible. And it's in keeping with my experience, you know, we ran this pilot scheme in Greenwich and Bexley Community Hospice and, we reached over 70 patients and over a hundred family members participating. and what we saw was an 85% reported emotional uplift and memory recall, combined with I think a 70% reduction in agitation and distress. On one occasion, we did a performance for three hours, and it was the first time in the hospice's [00:20:00] 30 year history where there was no need for medical, spiritual, or psychological intervention. 

Oh, so what you just described with that lady pulling off an oxygen mask and belting is similar to what we're seeing. Music is almost pausing for that moment anyway, terminal decline. And that actually, westernized healthcare in general, not just in hospice and palliative care is still very medically based and it's a specialism upon specialism. And there is now a school of thought, which is coming over from eastern medicine from places like India where we do really need more of like a a community engagement approach to healthcare, like a socio civic approach. Um, there's a big movement in the UK called Social Prescription, which is like Creative Arts on Demand. You go to your GP, he might prescribe you a [00:21:00] creative arts program instead of medication. And, you know, there's various studies being done. The National Center for Social Prescribing have evaluated that for every one pound invested, we can save, depending on the program, between £2.50 and eight to nine pounds. If you multiply that across every individual in the country, we'd save the NHS and private organisations, millions, hundreds of millions. 

So what you've just expressed, and what I've just expressed is really tangible evidence that singing heals and music heals. 

Alexa: With some of the scenarios that you've been in, have there been moments where it's not the performers performing, but you've actually handed over the instrument to the patient for them to get involved?  

Joe: Yeah. We, we do that every session as much as we possibly can. In fact, the whole purpose behind music in hospices is to empower our community in any way [00:22:00] possible. And so we often encourage patients and young people in, in the families with them to play with us. So sometimes that might mean them strumming on the harp just to feel what the harp sounds like and the vibrations against their skin.  

Other times we've had children come over and we've taught them tunes on, on, on the instruments, on the piano and the harp, and they've performed with us from a singing point of view, we, perform music that's very accessible. I remember a wonderful occasion where we were placed on the water and we started singing what should we do with a drunken sailor? 

And we had one of the kids like hitting a drum in rhythm, and we had all of the people on the wards and their families and the staff just singing. And there was laughter and there was joy, and there was movement and finger clicking. So it's such an accessible environment and, and, and an [00:23:00] accessible space. And, and we actively encourage participatory music making and, singing is just the most wonderful thing because singing allows you to engage in a way that feels right for you, it allows you to engage in, no matter your physical verbal ability. You can hum, you can sigh, you can sing, you can just form vowels. You don't even have to sing at all. You can just listen and let it soak over you. 

 And that, that is quite an incredible thing.  

Alexa: How do you go about hiring the singers, the  

Joe: musicians to come with you? Is there like a, a protocol for that? A cv? You have to see a show reel.  

So the majority of the musicians, come from within my own circles. People that I know who have been trained by, some of the foremost sort of, community participation institutions [00:24:00] that I know they'll have the skill set to be able to go in and deliver these sessions comfortably and confidently. 

Saying that, there is sort of a real open door policy. So we have the professional musicians that are going with us, but we have a growing sort of community musician scheme where amateur and semiprofessional musicians will come in with their ensemble, their choir, their ukulele group, their orchestra schools will come in with their choir and orchestra, and they'll perform for the patients. 

 Everyone is welcome. Everyone is welcome to make music. What I want to ensure is that everyone feels comfortable within the space. So if someone comes to me and says, I'd love to perform, but I'm not quite sure if I'm musically ready to perform one-on-one to a patient and do these spontaneous requests. That's completely okay. We can set you up in a, in a more public space and you can play and people can just let the music wash over them. Music In Hospices is really about empowering [00:25:00] all musicians. Whether you are amateur, professional, young or old, it really doesn't matter. You know, what I want to see more of is musical institutions and healthcare institutions partner together because I think we've got two really beautiful things, but I still think they're working very much separately. And I think both can thrive, with mutual support of each other.  

Alexa: Is there any evidence about the differences between the effects of live performance versus putting on a recording in the hospice?  

Joe: You know, I think, um, I think they're both strong in equal measure. My experiences is, my experiences are rather that post our performances, lots of people have been recording. And then they will play that for days and weeks afterwards [00:26:00] that will subsequently be shared with family members, not only in the UK but across Europe, Australia, the world. 

So the gift of life performance can never be underestimated and under appreciated. But there is value as well in recording that. So individuals who have barriers to music of any form can really enjoy music in their own home. And actually it allows us to connect and certainly allows our patients and our community to connect with loved ones overseas, who, because of time or financial restraints, can't make it over. 

So what we have also seen is family members turn around to us and say, thank you so much for doing that for my loved one whilst I couldn't be there, I saw the recording and it was so joyful seeing them make music, seeing them sing, seeing them smile, laugh, converse. That made such a difference to me and it alleviated so much guilt that I couldn't [00:27:00] be there because now we are talking about these moments together. 

Alexa: You say in one of your YouTube videos that you're working with leading research institutions to evaluate the work that you are doing. What's involved in that and what's coming up so far, and what's the future of that? Yeah,  

Joe: We, we've got something really exciting coming up. A really exciting research partnership, I'm hoping with Kings College, London and UCL funding, pending, , that would see the two heads of both the Dame Sicily Saunders Palliative Care Institute in Kings College and the head of the Mary Curie Palliative Care Research Center in UCL combined with me and Music in Hospices and our partners in hospices across the country to co-design a creative arts framework. 

So not only will we evaluate barriers to entry with hospices and with the wider community, [00:28:00] including multifaith groups, to create creative events, concert series, arts-based interventions that will encourage community engagement with hospices even if there is no medical need to encourage, diversity in the hospice system so that Western healthcare becomes representative of a broad range of, cultural views on what healthcare should look like and really to provide our partners in the hospices tangible steps to implement their own creative arts programme.  

It's something that I've been wanting to do for years and years and years, since I started this. I'm very lucky that the team of people that I've spoken to are so enthused and completely on the same wavelength. So fingers crossed if we secure funding, I think I wouldn't be like over exaggerating, or purely [00:29:00] exaggerating if would probably be like a world's first research project that I really do think probably transform the way we interact with palliative for life.  

Alexa: Oh, I've got everything crossed for you, Joe. I really do.  

You have some really great backing. One of those is the Lang Lang Foundation, and we might know Lang Lang from the TV show, The Piano. Can you tell us about how that came about and what it means to have this backing and exposure?  

Joe: Yeah, that was the most incredible, one of the most incredible experiences I've ever had. We were very lucky that our work has been supported very early on, by the BBC. So we've been quite, extensively, featured on BBC radio 4, The Today Programme, Saturday Live as well as BBC Breakfast. And from there, Lang Lang and the Lang Lang International Music Foundation picked up on our work and they have the most incredible [00:30:00] sort of community participation scheme. They work with, state and private schools to set up piano hubs, really to support young people in their journey, as pianists and to really find that sort of once in a generation talent to nurture and support. So I remember just, getting an email from the head of the foundation in the UK saying, could we set up like a call to discuss how we could work together? And within 20 minutes we had a Christmas concert sorted and we had like a commitment, to each other of longer partnership and you know, that is what happens when you have two organisations youth led that want to make meaningful change, want to do it now, and 20 minutes is all it took for a World's first partnership for palliative care and, and for music as well.  

So we did the most beautiful Christmas [00:31:00] concert in Grinch and Bexley Community Hospice in Christmas 2024. 

And we had Lucy, who won the first season of The Piano. We also had Malachi the famous, treble who, I think, I'm not sure if he won Britain's Got Talent, but he placed very highly and we had lots of the Lang Scholars wonderful pianists to perform in a hospice. And there were about a hundred people there, inpatients, outpatients, people from the dementia support group, bereaved children and young people and families. 

BBC were there filming it all, and Lang Lang recorded the most amazing video, which I have on my phone, I still can't believe it. He talks about his excitement of working with Music In Hospices, but also the power of music in hospice care. Um, and that is transformative really, to have someone that [00:32:00] is internationally renowned Grammy Award-winning, really the top echelons of, of classical music to have him enthuse about, and actively encourage and support community music making is an absolute game changer. And we're seeing Ed Sheeran doing it now with his foundation and I think it amplifies the voices, not just of their work and our work, but of the voices of the community. The videos that we put up of those performances got like hundreds of thousands of views on Instagram and, the response from the BBC interview was incredible because you had people reaching out, telling their stories. 

We had people reaching out, wanting to perform, wanting to donate pianos, wanting Music In Hospices to come to their hospice and community setting and, um, just incredible, incredible. I [00:33:00] remember listening to Malachi singing and just, , it's just so overwhelming. I was just in floods of tears in floods of tears because it's difficult to describe really, like how something you've created from nothing, like watching it grow and seeing a hundred people in, in the room with you, lang Lang on screen supporting you, the BBC, they're filming it all for international broadcast. I just looked around going, oh my gosh, like I can't believe we've come so far in like under a year at that point.  

And yeah, and just seeing most beautiful thing was just seeing a patient called Jean and her daughter. I actually met Jean a few weeks before, but now she was actively dying, which, which means that she had a few hours, really a few days left to live. And she specifically requested to be in that room and as Malachi was singing, Jean and her mother were [00:34:00] cuddling and cwtching and having that moment together and singing together and, and I think some people would find that story sad. I find that story like immensely hopeful and joyful because what it shows is that singing throughout our lives, even in those final moments, can still produce moments of joy, happiness, and connection.  

Alexa: These stories, they do get you right in the hyoid bone. Right, right, right in the old larynx. I do wonder how, as you say, I can understand that it's, it's probably really quite a sad thing to witness, but, the overwhelm and the beauty of it, how do you cope with that as a musician and, and especially if you're singing a piece.  

Joe: People ask me this and they, and they say, don't you find it sort of a bit too close to home after, after your Mum has died? Surely it's quite like a sad environment? But honestly, I have like the best time there. [00:35:00] I have wonderful conversations. I laugh sometimes, like I've never laughed before. The humor and the life and the vibrancy of the people and the place is just huge. As a musician, as a singer, I just love it. I just love performing and seeing other people sing with me and seeing people really actively participate in, in creating a piece of music. The architecture of these places is beautiful, natural, light filled wards and public spaces that lead on to wild and vibrant gardens. Wonderful food and coffee. There is so much to love. In fact, I often go to these places for meetings that maybe last about half hour to an hour and I'll end up staying there for like four or five hours if I've got work to do, 'cause it's just such a lovely place to work and relax. In terms of music, I think I would say to any musician that this space is of [00:36:00] course, has the obvious sadnesses that is predominantly a very joyful, accessible bounteous place in life.  

Alexa: And how far do the donations go? I know that you've got a page on your website where we can donate to Music In Hospices. What, where does that money go? What do you kind of put it on?  

Joe: Yeah, so if you'd like to donate to music and hospices, we have a website, www.musicinhospices.org.uk. And you'll see, the donations page is broken up into different funding levels. We've got three pillars. So we've got creative arts and intervention. We've got children and young people, and we've got advocacy. So, creative arts is the provision of the concerts to as many hospices as possible. Then the children and young people we're developing a schools program, so we're partnering with state and private schools [00:37:00] to bring them into the hospice to perform for the patients to improve death literacy. We're gonna go in and we're gonna run workshops around death, dying, bereavement and music. I've just, written, co-authored a, children's book called Little Elephant Visits the Hospice which is support children's journey through the palliative care system with their loved. So it's a really colourful activity, uh, book, which has got lot emotional process tools in as well. Little Elephant is just little thing ever. I love her to bits. Um, and what else do we have? We've got an instrument donation scheme where we work with partner organizations to donate secondhand instruments to children and young adults. 

So the purpose is, is we're trying to alleviate social and financial barriers to music making and also, rewrite some of those. With something hopeful to allow the children and young people [00:38:00] to make music in, in memory of their loved ones. And then the advocacy, we do a lot on, on national radio and tv, but we also do lots of Instagram series. 

 I call them Coffee Chats and Community Voices. So community voices, we speak to the patients in their own words about their life, their loves, the importance of music and community for them. And then coffee chats. I, I interview sort of people involved in the palliative care system, whether that's nurses, doctors, anyone, occupational therapists. 

We go for coffee and we just talk about how they came to work in this environment and to show those individuals as part of their community. I think some people separate the people in the community from the people in the hospice, but they're one, we're all part of the same, , it's all about amplification and it's all about addressing the community as a whole. 

So, to answer your [00:39:00] question, the donations are put to very good use and of course people can donate how ever much they like on a basis as regular or irregular as they want. There's no pressure, but everything really does go direct to the hospices to palliative care.  

Alexa: Joe, you've really created something amazing here. 

I just wanted to finish off on a question of if you ever found yourself in need of care and you were in a hospice what's the one song that you would want played for you?  

Joe: Gosh, this is like Desert Island Discs. What is the one song... you know what I am going to get so rinsed for this, amongst my friends. Bruno Mars 24 Carat Magic.  

Alexa: Okay.  

Joe: I just remember watching it on stage and Bruno Mars can dance like God, he can dance it. It's just incredible. And the music is just so like uplifting. It's got a little beat towards it. It just makes me wanna [00:40:00] dance around my room . If someone can do that for me when I'm in palliative care, I'd be very happy. Thanks very much.  

Alexa: Amazing. I love that you've given us the website there. Is that the best place for us to find you and find out more about you and get in touch?  

Joe: Yeah, so the website, www music in hospices dot org.uk. Or we're on Instagram and facebook @musicicinhospices. If you want to follow me directly, god knows why you would, but it's @ joecavalliprice. 

Alexa: Thank you so much. It is been a real pleasure and I couldn't wish you any more luck with this.  

Joe: Thank you. Thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it. And, and thank you for your support. It's been beautiful to chat.