Alexa: [00:00:00] This week I'm chatting with artist, songwriter, choir leader, and vocal coach India Bourne about life beyond the stage. 

From touring the world with Ben Howard to building a thriving teaching career, India shares how completing the BAST foundation course deepened her understanding of the voice, transformed her songwriting, and enriched her work with singers. 

She also opens up about balancing creativity, teaching and motherhood, revealing how life as a mum has shaped her artistry, sharpened her instincts, and helped her continue to create a sustainable, fulfilling career around singing. 

Welcoming India Bourne. 

India, welcome to the podcast. I'm just so sorry we've caught you on a day where you're a little under the weather.  

India: Oh, it's okay. You know, it's one of those things. It's having kids, to be honest. It's... You get these things.  

Alexa: They are walking germs.  

India: Yeah. Yeah, they are. They are. But, you know, I guess it's good for [00:01:00] the immune system. 

Alexa: So this episode will be sponsored by Kleenex.  

India: I think I need a Kleenex sponsor right now, yeah. 

Alexa: You have travelled the world with Ben Howard and his band. What place or venue has felt really unforgettable to perform in, somewhere that maybe you would go back to in a heartbeat? 

India: Ooh, I mean, outdoor venues are pretty second to none. The first one that came to my head was playing in Johannesburg, and we played in an outdoor stage. And as the sun was setting, like unbelievable colours there were, like, flamingos, flying over our heads as we were singing. We were all just, like, eyes up in the sky going, "Is this actually happening?" Um, so that was pretty, that was pretty insane. 

Red Rocks in the States was amazing. I mean, it's such a joy to play outside. It's not always [00:02:00] acoustically the best venues, but, um, being outside in nature, being able to have that kind of interaction or viewing such an incredible sight you just sort of think, "Wow, we're part of something way bigger than us." And the crowds always love it, don't they? Even in the rain... 

I think one of the most unforgettable UK gigs was only a couple of years ago. We played Ally Pally, but outside, and the rain, like, the heavens opened, and opened not just for half an hour, for about five hours. Like, before the show, during the show, after the show. And the crowd were just... I mean, cr- they'd queued for ages, and they were abs- a lot of them were just completely, completely beyond drenched. And, um, you know, the rain was, like, running in rivulets down the stage all the way, we were moving our pedalboards back bit by bit as we were kind of slowly flooding the stage. But the crowd, the energy was just, it was off the charts. 

So yeah, playing outside is pretty [00:03:00] epic, really. 

Some people ask me kind of, "Oh, wow, you've played- done, like, long tours and you toured for months at a time and you're singing the same songs every night." I think who's watching and what kind of energy they bring makes all the difference. 

It's like you may be singing the same song, yes, but everything else is different. And so when you've got all those external, things that are in- interplaying and interact with the music, it's like it is alive, the music. Each song is never the same every night, you know? 

And it could be, like, the mood on stage as well, but it's like that, the interplay with the audience and your environment is so important. Yeah, it's a great privilege to do that.  

Alexa: What have years of touring and being an artist taught you about voice, and also as a human being in this industry? 

India: Gosh. I think it was when I took a little step back from touring and I had my kids, so it's interestingly in retrospect actually. When I had my [00:04:00] children and I knew that I wouldn't be able to tour quite so much, or if at all at, at times. I was wondering how can I tour with a baby or a little toddler or... 

And the answer was I couldn't at that point. But so I had to kind of reframe what my work was. And 'cause I'd been a touring musician for so long it was kind of a redef- a moment to, of redefining me, I guess. And it was when I was thinking about what really ignited me on stage, like what did I love the most? What did I love the most about recording? 

And it was always the singing. It was the singing with my band mates that we've, you know, we're super close. When you travel with people and you sing with them every day, you play music with them every day, you get so close. And it was those moments of like utter I don't know what to call it exactly, but kind of utter joy and being in the flow. It was singing together. 'Cause we all, the six of us would, would all sing harmonies [00:05:00] together and it was the connection of our voices. It was like looking across the stage. It was interacting, singing, like harmonising, just the vibrations itself of that like resonance of harmonising and singing together and, uh, smiling. 

And it was like, wow, the voice is really like at the core of what I love. I think I knew that at the time. But it was actually thinking, "Well, what do I w- how am I redefining this next stage of my life as not a touring musician all the time? What do I wanna do?" And I was like, "I wanna sing, and I wanna..." 

I'd already set up my choir, but I was thinking, "I wanna deepen that. I wanna deepen my knowledge of the voice. I wanna teach. I want to bring that to my choirs." And so that's really where it started. Even though I'm a classically trained cellist first, and I love cello. It's like another voice, but it's, it's different. This is just so integral. 

So yeah, I think the voice has [00:06:00] a- always been at the heart of my love of touring, playing, recording.  

Alexa: There's that old saying, isn't there, that 'those who can't do, teach.' And I still think that it quietly hangs around and feeds into imposter syndrome a fair bit, I'd say. Taken out of context, really, from a play back in 1903, I think, from George Bernard Shaw called Man and Superman. 

People like you, who have built a career as a performer, as an artist, touring musician, prove this completely wrong. But I wonder, has teaching ever felt sort of in tension with being an artist at all? Or do you feel like it's deepened your artistry?  

India: Definitely deepened. Definitely. I mean, first of all, I would say from doing the course with Line, I deepened my own connection to my voice, which has then hugely [00:07:00] enriched, you know, my own capacity as a singer, my own skill as a singer and a performer. It's only deepened it. 

I mean, she said to me, we were tackling the TA with me. We were talking about it in the, in our training. And, um, you know, she said to me, " you haven't really sort of delved into this, that you sing mostly in your head voice." 

And I was thinking about this. And I was like, Surely... you know, I've performed for, I've been a musician for, like, over a decade, and I've been doing this for a really long time. I should know my voice. And she was like, "Let's, let's really, let's go into this." And, um, she said, "It can take people, some people a few months, it can take people a few years to really, really get into this space." And I was like, "Golly, this unknown part of my voice." and we went for it, and I kid you not, I... 

She said, "You're gonna write different music now. I, I'm pretty sure of it." I was like, "Do you think?" I was [00:08:00] like, "Wow, what's the, what's the scope? What, what are we gonna find out here?" It felt like a little treasure trove. And really deepening into my TA, my, my chest voice, the subtleties of it. It was like, wow. 

It completely blew my mind, and it changed how I write music, how I wrote music. I wrote songs I never would've written if I hadn't had that extra layer of knowledge. And, and really- integrating that myself, not just from a, like, a teaching perspective. It was like, well, to teach it, I need to do it. 

You know, I need to live that. I need to know how it feels. I need to know how it sounds. I need to know the different kind of layers of it. 

It's been the most amazing deep dive, and I'm still finding all parts of my voice that I can... You know, how high can I take it? How gently can I have it? Can I engage it just a little bit? Like, what is mixed voice? Like, all these, wonderful, juicy questions that, I explore with my singers, but I explore with [00:09:00] myself. And I continue to explore that with myself, and I think writing songs and having that as, as a, you know, a deep desire and wish in me and a, a kind of something that I can't avoid, to be honest, it's like it just wants to come, exploring that within myself was absolutely necessary and fundamental for my journey as a songwriter. 

Alexa: What would you say to musicians who might worry that teaching means giving up on being an artist?  

India: Ooh. I would say absolutely not. 

I would say, you know, what are you teaching for? I think is quite a good thing to ask yourself. 

And then go from there. I think, I teach because I love teaching, and I love finding out about people and their voices. And I almost liken it to kind of not being a [00:10:00] spy, but being a detective. A spy. 

But like a detective because it's like you've got someone walks in your room. They've got some feelings about them. They've had whatever journey to get there. They come into your studio, and they sit down, and you go, "Right." And it- you're very present with that person. I think if you've got a real wish to be connected and kind of communicate and be curious about someone, it's an amazing privilege. And you sit there, and you kind of, you delve into... 

And the voice is so, oh, God, it's, as you well know, it's like, you're kind of, cracked open a bit, aren't you? You have to sit there and be vulnerable. You have to be willing as a student and as the teacher. You kind of be humble to whatever you meet and receptive and open. So I find it, like, to be a huge privilege to, for these people to, to be vulnerable enough to come and share with you their voice, which is just essentially them, [00:11:00] right? It's, it's inescapably them. 

And I know we can put, affect our voices with style and different techniques, but it's like, you know, you get quite quickly to the core of somebody if they're willing. So I find it to be immensely enriching. 

And with the knowledge of the training, it's like you can kind of, going back to the detective thing, it's like, okay, great, so you want a bit, bit more like you want to engage that TA a bit more, or that head voice was feeling quite, not feeling as strong as you want it to be. Like let's look into that. Let's explore it. 

And I think if you're going from that, personally, if you're going from that kind of angle of curiosity and let's do this together, and isn't it fun? And, let's not put too much pressure on it and, and see what comes. It's like when I get the best results when my students are just feeling like grounded, joyful, playful, having [00:12:00] a bit of a laugh, daring. 'Cause you have to, you know, it takes guts, doesn't it, to sing in front of someone in a studio. One-to-one that's, that's- big bit of courage.  

Alexa: Also, you have a great name for the detective side, being a Bourne and all.  

India: That's true. Maybe I am a spy. Maybe I should rebrand my singing, my singing name. 

Alexa: I was going to do the same, then I thought Amazon will absolutely tell me off if I try and wangle my way through, uh, with Alexa. Ask Alexa.  

We can actually see your BAST certificate just behind you there- Ooh, yeah ... from your 20-hour course, which is now our foundation self-paced course. When did you take the course? 

India: 2023. So yeah, three years ago now. And it was, it was just, it was exactly what I needed. It was exactly what I needed to give [00:13:00] me the tools, to navigate teaching. And I felt it was so comprehensive. I know it's only 20 hours, but it was just brilliant. And it also gave us such a kind of springboard for, and then, do you know what I mean? It was like, okay, and now we're gonna explore more. It's given us absolutely the fundamentals. 

And I think if you're actively teaching at that point or you intend to start immediately, which I did, I was already teaching as we were going through the course, then it's, it's given you the foundations to then go out and explore more and, and, and try things with singers. 

Like what works, what doesn't work for them, that, you know, it's so individual. And I think, as I was saying to you about my own voice and really discovering really hidden depths to my own voice, and then which translated into my songwriting, I was living that as well. So I think it was very present in me and continues to be, and I continue to work at my own voice and work, of course, with my [00:14:00] singers as well. 

But I think what's so lovely, you asked me about, the fact that I was a performer, a touring musician first. This just gives a whole different kind of dynamic to that work that the kind of knowledge I have now from doing the course has just given a whole new perspective on the voice. 

And it's great. The band, the band asked me to give them singing warmups and asked me why, and, "Well, what are you doing?" And, "What's that straw?" And they're like really intrigued. I've got them doing all sorts of fun things. And, uh, 'cause, you know, I did warm up a bit before, of course, but, a lot of the boys were just like, "No, we just do this and this, and that works," and off we go. 

But, it was really fun taking that into the band as well.  

Alexa: Sharing the knowledge. 

If we're looking at artists like Ellie Rowsell, for example, who's the lead vocalist of Wolf Alice, she's classically trained, I believe, as a singer, and you're [00:15:00] classically trained as a cellist. So how has that experience in, in classical instrumentation influenced your work as a singer and also how you teach, yourself? 

India: Well, I guess I've been there, right? Like, I know what hard work and dedication it takes to really have to do the hard graft. I mean, I don't quite like to phrase it like hard graft, but it does. It takes commitment, passion, practice. You've got to learn how to practice. Um, and I always say that to my students, and I always give a reason why we're doing this scale or that, you know, these warm-up exercises. It's, it's in order to, you know. It's like these are the things we have to do because we're getting more agile, and we're learning new techniques. 

And so because I've been there, and I've had to practice for hours and hours every day with the cello, I had several great teachers, who really... Oh, yeah, I [00:16:00] think when you get to university, you've done the kind of day-to-day, right, I'm gonna learn this scale and that scale, and you kind of start to branch out into the kind of wider picture of, okay, right, this is the repertoire and, deepening. 

Once you've sort of tackled a lot of the techniques, it's like deepening your musical knowledge and really, I loved the kind of deep dives into the concertos that we did and things like that. And I think all that, all that knowledge is still there even though I haven't played, like, a classical piece on the, piece on the cello since, probably since I left university, or, no, since my early 20s or something, playing in orchestras in London. 

But that's still there, and I think I can take, I, I take that into my teaching. And I think so much of, what we need to bring to our students is kind of, okay, well, why are we doing this? It's not just... I think as children, you know, you're like, "Okay, well, we need to do our scales and arpeggios," and I, I, I [00:17:00] don't think I ever thought of the question why. 

And I was like, "Well, this is a bit boring, isn't it?" And it's like, well, no. I mean, it can be, but it depends how you phrase it, how you put it. It's like, okay, this is in order to strengthen your fingers to be able to do these really tricky runs in the piece that you love, you know? 

And I really see it in my son. He's learning Suzuki piano, and it's just phenomenal. So, so much of what he learns is all, you know, by listening first. It's kind of, based on the fact that we all speak a language 'cause we hear it from really young. So he's been listening to his songs on the piano for, for book one for a long time, before he even looked at his score. 

So, when he comes to doing scales now, it's kind of in a completely different angle because he knows what he wants to play. And I say, "Well, that's because your, you know, your ruby ring fingers are, it, it's just a bit harder to get them working. Let's really work at them because then you can do that run that you really [00:18:00] like." 

I think as a teacher you have to look at things from all different angles, don't you? Um, and say it in different ways, demonstrate it, because everybody learns differently, don't they?  

Alexa: What does songwriting look like for you, and where do songs tend to begin?  

India: You know what, they all start with the voice, and I've realised that my best melodies, the ones that just feel great, that are most explorative are always started from vocal lines and sometimes not even the kind of melody. 

I'll have something going on in my head that I will sing, and that might become an instrumental part, or it might become layers of vocals which are kind of the backing part, which then I will top line over. Um, and I think having the choir, who I teach weekly, having them as an amazing, uh, I don't wanna call them a tool, but, like, um, [00:19:00] amazing, well, teaching them these parts is such incredible privilege because I can hear what I've heard in my head straight out on, like, a Thursday night. I say, "Right, we're gonna sing this, and we're gonna sing that, and then, um, I'm gonna teach you the tune, these guys, and then they're gonna sing over the top." 

So suddenly all these voices are just at my at my fingertips, to explore songwriting. So, they really are, the women that I teach, they're really at the core of how I'm writing songs now. 

So yes, a lot of my songs start completely a cappella, and then I'll take them to the band, and I'll say, "Right, I've got all these vocal parts. Who wants to take what?" Or, "How do we..." Or sometimes the singers all just come in with the band, and so everything kind of, sort of fits in around each other. So yeah, they're very integral, the vo- vocal parts.  

Alexa: Do you notice that there's a pattern of when vocal lines come to you? [00:20:00] Is it, like, when you've had a really busy day or when you're loading the dishwasher or doing the dishes or out in the garden? 

Because I'm, I'm just gonna be honest with you here, India, sometimes some of my best ideas happen when I'm on the toilet. 

India: Well, you know what, I can actually, I can share some kind of, uh, some knowledge I've just learnt about how our brain works in that way. So I'm not sure about on the toilet, but on the toilet your mind will probably be wandering, right? And so You're not task focused particularly at that point, so to speak. 

But in fact, I have got my book right here, which is great. It's called 'Why Doing Nothing Can Change Your Life,' and it's got a kind of science backing to what you've just said. I've recently just taken a little bit of time out from teaching and recording and all work due to just kind of a bit of a [00:21:00] burnout and, doing a bit too much and then, an illness. 

And my husband brilliantly got me this book, and it's basically, it talks about, exactly that. So, you know, when we're on the loo or we're hanging the washing out, or we're going for the dog walk, why does our brain suddenly start producing melody or thoughts or it's like, wow. Or quite often people say to me when they're just dropping off to sleep, it's that moment and you get like, "Oh my God, that's a brilliant melody." 

And it is because, oh goodness, it's, it's called the default... I won't go into too much detail... but it's called the default network in our brain. And, they discovered it quite by accident. It was this neuroscientist called, Michael. No, sorry, not Michael. Marcus Raichle. They discovered- 

Alexa: I wish his name was Michael, 'cause Michael Raichle is absolutely brilliant.  

India: I wish he was called that too.[00:22:00]  

Oh, fantastic. He says that it was after a period of studying the brain and they had people do kind of focused tasks, that it was when they finished the focu- focused task and they were allowed just to let their brain wander, the entire brain lit up, and he said it was almost like a dimmer switch being turned all the way up, and he said they've now observed-- they thought it was some kind of anomaly, and they've taken years to kind of prove it with, extra tests and things. But the default network is really, like, the conductor. If you think of the brain as, like, the orchestra, he describes the brain as the orchestra and the default network as the conductor. So he was saying that it, it, as soon as the, the brain is allowed to be at ease essentially and rest, the default network goes woo. 

And I haven't got far enough yet to discover why that is, whether it's that you're processing the task, because when you're doing a task, only very certain areas of the brain are, [00:23:00] are, are lit up. So he, he said it's almost like, you know, the, the orchestra's playing pianissimo when you're doing a focused task, and then when you relax the brain then goes, "Woo-hoo," and then it goes in fortissimo. 

It's, like, insane. And I do think it's those moments when you're, like, just having a bath or you're walking the dog, as I mentioned. I say that because I-- that's when my ideas come, your brain is allowed freedom to just, process, I think it is. And the default network covers four different parts, big parts of the brain, and I think it's the connection between all those parts of the brain. 

So yes, I would say absolutely it's not when I'm sitting down like, "Right, I've got to write a song now." It's when I allow my brain a little bit of freedom and I'm also using my body. I'm not just sort of sitting still. I'm just allowing my body to process what's, what's happening. And also it comes with lyrics as well. 

Like, I think if I've got some [00:24:00] lyrics turning around my head, that's also where I write the best melodies. If I'm really delving into the lyrical content, what I, what do I want to say, then, that's when my best results come.  

Alexa: Heidi Moss has some lovely work on this, and there's some great videos on her YouTube channel. 

We also had her on the podcast recently, and she talks about rest and how actually allowing these things to sort of marinate in the background, and there's a lot of processing happening at rest. We just don't give it enough gravitas, do we? It's like rest equals lazy or rest equals unproductivity or whatever, but that's actually so incorrect, and we, we must have that in order to progress well. 

India: Yeah, 100%. It's something that I'm really learning currently, and it's absolutely... I mean, now it's scientifically proven, isn't it? But I think our culture's so set up for achievement and goals and, uh, not so much on [00:25:00] creativity and playfulness, joy. You know, we, we're missing out actually on a lot of, a lot of stuff. 

Alexa: I've been listening to some of your music, and it's absolutely my cup of tea. Oh. It has made me want to lay down in a forest somewhere far away on a retreat and contemplate what it means to sort of live. 

India: Aw, wow, what a glowing review. That's, that's lovely. I like that you got the nature feeling in there.  

Alexa: I did, and it's, very ethereal, and it has a huge amount of feeling in it. And I know in some of your descriptions, you talk about having that Joni Mitchell leaning in there, and you can really feel that. it's very emotive. 

What's your strategy as a vocalist or, or do you even have one, in order to evoke these feelings in your music?  

India: Ooh, excellent question. Well, like I was saying before about discovering new parts of my voice through extra training and through the [00:26:00] teacher training through BAST, that's come to me more easily, I think. 

There were moments in recording my, my Tender Central record, which was kind of my name. I'm going back to India Bourne, but that was a sort of... I wanted that to be a different project. There was moments there where I could really tell that I was sort of pushing against a wall. And I wanted more out of my voice that I didn't know how to get. 

So now I find that's easier because I'm aware of more parts of my voice. Not that I'm aware of all of them, for sure. But definitely I do think about that much more now. I think, I think it has to come from a, a natural place, though. 

I don't think... I certainly don't sit down and think, "Right, well, I want, you know, real edgy tone here, and I want it to be quite sort of, I want quite a strong vocal fold closure." And I don't think of it like that. It's more kind of that will come because I've done the [00:27:00] work. Do you see what I mean? 

And it will come naturally because emotionally that's where I'm at. But yeah, I think it has to be done consciously first really in preparation for... 

Alexa: ...and is that your strategy in helping singers find that access to emotion and intimacy too? Or h- how do you help them find something that's really gonna communicate? 

India: Well, what we do with songs is once we've learned the notes and the words, which is really their job, we do our six words. And, that was brought to me by a wonderful coach I had back in my early 20s. I was about to record my album, it must have been mid-20s, and she said, "What, what are your six words?" 

And I was like, "What do you mean what's my six words?" And she's like, "Right, okay. I want you to tell me three words that you feel when you're singing this." And it can be like, I feel, sadness or grief or [00:28:00] joy or whatever that is. But, or it could be like an image, I could say, right, the mountains. 

So, I'd write those three words. So really encapsulate.... you have to think quite hard, okay, three words quite specifically, so that in order that if you were to read them, you'd be like, "Right, I'm in the right spot now. I know emotionally where I'm at. I know all the words. I know all the, you know, melodies. That's fine." My three words. 

And then she said, "And there's another three words. And those three words are the words you want your listeners to feel, experience, et cetera, when they hear you." Some of them may, there may be a crossover, but they could be three completely different words. 

So actually you might be feeling grief, but maybe you want them to feel, okay, an edge of anger, or you want them to really dig into a different veil of emotion. And I was fascinated by that, and it instantly changed my performing [00:29:00] actually. And I noticed a change in my singers. 

Because when I, when I have those six words, when I had them in the studio, when I was about to put my headphones on, I was like, "Right, I'm gonna deliver this vocal." And there's a pressure on that vocal, isn't there? When you're standing in the studio and you're like, "Got to, got to bring this because this is a recording." And I just looked at those six words and I was like, "I'm in the zone. I'm ready." 

So when those singers delve into the six words, and we spend a little time on it, it's amazing how it changes. They hold themselves differently. They kind of dig in differently. And I think then we go, "Oh, okay, that was brilliant. How are those high notes landing for you? Was your larynx rising a little bit there? Those high notes were slightly harder." Then let's go into the minutiae of, okay, let's do some exercises with that. Let's free up your upper range or whatever. But I think those six words have played such a big role in how I teach kind of- emotional engagement and really [00:30:00] stepping into those shoes. 

Alexa: Speaking of shoes, you wear lots of different ones because there are lots of jobs that you're doing all together. You're a mother, you're an artist, you're a teacher, you're a choir leader. First of all, how do you do it all? How are you balancing it all in your life?  

India: Ooh, good question. I think, well, the word balance is key. 

I think as a mum, you get very good at doing things in short spaces of time, and I used to be quite a faffer, a procrastinator, and even I'd sit in my studio pre-kids and be like, "Ooh, God, what am I gonna do?" I'm not naturally very organised. I've had to work quite hard at that. But actually having children has made me be like, boosh, you've got one hour to do, I don't know, someone asked me to do, some strings on, um, on a Sam Fender record. So I was like, "Jeez, this is quite a big deal. I've just gotta do some cello [00:31:00] arrangements." Had a baby, and, um, my mu- my mum was like, "I'll come and take the baby." She was like, "I'll just take the dog for a walk." 

So I had an hour before, like, the next feed or something. She was like, "Will that be enough?" I was like, "Fine." Just like, run. Sat down, and I was just like, I cannot, critique this very much. I mean, yes, but I had to trust my gut, trust my intuition. Okay, that cello line came. Go with that. Right. Let's go. The next one, let's layer it up. Was that right? Tweak that. Do, do, do. It was like, had to be extremely quick, but what it made me brilliant at was trusting my intuition and trusting my musicality, and that became, like, a real strength. Whereas before, it'd be like, "Oh, that was a bit, that was a bit of a boring cello line. I better, better rewrite that." But it made me like, no, actually, that first thought was probably the best one, so go with it. You do not have time. And it was great. It made me very efficient [00:32:00] in short spaces of time. 

So I think, like, going back to what you said about balance, everything has to be juggled as a parent and trying to wear a few different hats. But I would say that they all feed in. They all f- nourish each other. I think what I have to be careful of is just having a boundary and amount of times doing each thing and not trying to do everything all the time because, you know, that's what led to me kind of needing to just take a little break, which has been brilliant for me. 

So yeah, I think the juggle is okay as long as you know that you're, it's nourishing each other. My teaching enhances my choir work. My choir work enhances my songwriting. My songwriting makes me a better musician in the band because I can be more, you know, explorative with vocal lines or cello lines because I'm living that day-to-day with my [00:33:00] songwriting. 

I feel incredibly lucky, to be honest.  

Alexa: And where can we hear that cello line that you made? What, what Sam Fender song are we talking?  

India: He did, oh, 17 Going Under, he did a, an acoustic version. I did all the strings for that. That was on the dog walk, my mum's dog walk with my baby. 

Well, he's now five, but yeah. She was like, "I'll take the baby." And I was like, "Wa." So yeah, I did the string parts for acoustic 17 Going Under. it was great fun.  

Alexa: How do you protect your creativity when life is very, very full?  

India: Excellent question. Again, it's going back to harmony and balance. 

I know things that I need. I know I need nature connection time. I need to go out in my garden. I need to walk the dog. Now I know that I need to have those moments of, like, brain wandering, like we talked about, the rest moments. I know that sometimes I th- I will get [00:34:00] overwhelmed, and that's okay, and I'll go and lie in the garden. 

I think it's having tools that you know that work, that nourish you when things get overwhelming. And all of us get overwhelmed, and I think if you know that in yourself, you can see that in your students, and you can feel that. That can resonate. And you have to... just approaching it as a human. Living that, living that, you can then share with others. 

So yeah, I would say knowing what nourishes you and doing it. You have to do it. You have to be quite strong with yourself sometimes, and not let life just sort of keep going, keep going, keep going until you burn out. 

And I've, and it's wonderful. 

I had someone describe very recently about, that we have two batteries inside of us. One is that day-to-day battery which, can go up and down. You know, it's like when you wake up, you're like, "Yeah, okay, got energy," and, "Oh, I've just done a big lesson," or, "I've done a workout," or whatever it is. That energy can go up and down, and that's okay. That's allowed to [00:35:00] do that. 

Then you have a second battery, which is like your long-term battery, and that is... It, it burns down slower, but then it, it, you can't replenish it quickly. It then also grows slowly. So it's, it's this one that really we have to keep aware of, and it's when we, like, burn this one really low, golly, does that take time to buil- build up again. 

So I think it's just, it's being really mindful of, okay, this one's fine. This one can ebb and flow. This one needs real care, and kind of, guardianship. I'm not quite sure what the phrase is, but it, it needs your attention. 

Alexa: You have some exciting new music coming in the summer. I mean, this weekend is going to be a scorcher, which I'm not looking forward to. I'll probably just go and sit in the garage or something. But it does mark this, this new project of yours. So how is it different from the previous work that you've done?  

India: Well, it was all recorded live in [00:36:00] studio in, uh, not far from me in Devon, with an amazing producer called Peter Miles at Middle Farm Studios. 

And Pete's kind of specialty is recording to tape and recording live. So he's got this beautiful live room, which has got like everything you could possibly imagine in it. There's a massive grand piano. so we had 11 of us at one point, there was 11 recording live in the same room. And we'd just come off a Ben tour, and so were very much, like, kind of flowing and, like, on each other's wavelengths in terms of musically we're all kind of buzzing off each other and, so I wanted to capture that. 

Like, that was such an important thing. And these three songs of mine, people didn't know that well, to be honest, had heard of the demos a, a couple of times, a few times. But I wanted it to be quite organic and spontaneous, and so we just piled in. We plugged in, we got [00:37:00] some levels, and then we were off. 

And I'm, you know, we only recorded each song three times. Three, maybe four, and we just went with feeling rather than kind of perfection. And, you know, the thing that was different about that was that to my previous record, to my Tender Central record, as much as I, gosh, that was a real moment for me, that was recorded over seven years between touring, you know, about to give birth to babies. 

You know, it was like, it was a big moment, that record, but it was very kind of quickly in the studio, put down some vocals, then we're gonna track this. It was all track, track, track, and it was pretty much me playing all the instruments and my producer playing some too and... 

but this was like, whew, I can stand there and just sing, or I can stand there, play the piano, play the keys, whatever it was, and just be in a live space. 

So, the kind of the live element was very, very, very present. And exciting and funny [00:38:00] and, you know, the pe- all the people in that room I had a connection and have a connection, a strong one with, and so there's very much that feeling of family in a sense, you know, without sounding cheesy. It is. Like, your f- your touring family, um, and actual family 'cause my sister was there. 

Three of my singers from the choir, they were singing with me. So there was a lot of smiles, and it was lovely. It was captured by a friend of mine, so it was videoed, so you could really see that kind of live improvisational aspect of it. So that was thrilling. So we did three like that, and then the, on the other side of the record is gonna be, live performances of, a big show we did at Outside, which is a venue near me. It's Ben's venue. And we did that with choir, with... It was just amazing, with those musicians again. 

So, it's gonna be a very live album, so I really hope that when people listen to it they get a [00:39:00] sense of that, like- Woo. Like, I don't know, kind of energy you can feel. And I think especially, I'd love to do it. I wanna press it onto a record because there's something like and there's something magical in listening to a live record, on, on, on a vinyl. So I was just thinking, I was looking around thinking, "Where's my Joni Mitchell vinyl?" Because sometimes I listen to a vinyl of Joni, I just, like, think that she's in the room with me. Do you know what I mean? You get that sense of like she could just be sitting there next to me singing that. 

So yeah, with all its mini imperfections, ah, that's what makes it. That's what makes it. It's not auto-tuning vocals. It's not, like, getting rhythms, like, metronomically like this. But I mean, my drummer's amazing, but it, you know, it's, it's about that push and pull and the tension and the... yeah. 

Alexa: Do we have a date yet so we can look out for that? 

India: Ooh. About, well, early July we're looking at. So I haven't got an exact date, but yeah.  

Alexa: Amazing. Oh, we're looking forward to that. So [00:40:00] where can we keep our eyes out? Are we, are we looking on your website or on Spotify and all the streaming platforms?  

India: Yes. Yes. It'll be on there. It'll be on my website. it'll be on Instagram. I'll put up the videos on YouTube and Instagram of the live sessions of us in the room, so that'll be fun. So just, yeah, all the usual, places. 

Alexa: And we'll make sure that those are linked in the show notes too, so we can all go and have a lovely listen and go and find a forest to sit down in. 

India: Yeah. And yeah, and let your mind wander. I'm all into this at the moment. I've just come back from an amazing retreat where we were in the forest actually, and we were able to let our minds wander and our thoughts wander and, and very interesting, poignant questions posed to us. 

So, I'm all up for that. And music just, it was absolutely flowing at the core and at the core of us. And interestingly, even though it wasn't a vocal retreat we sung at any, at any and every occasion. And it brought so close to me just how much we [00:41:00] need it. We need it. And there was, there were people there that, like, afterwards found out that I was a, a, led choirs and stuff and said like, "Wow, where can I join a choir? Like, singing has ignited me. I really need to do this. I want to find a singing teacher." I was like, "Yes!" You know, it's that lived experience. It's not necessarily like what we think we should do. It's like, oh wow, that felt good, and it, it nourished me, and I enjoyed myself, and I've... My brain thinks differently. 

And I just thought, gosh, yeah, it keeps proving itself, doesn't it, time and time again.  

Alexa: Oh, it's been so lovely to chat with you, India. Thank you so much for giving us an insight and, and what's going on in your life. 

India: Thanks for having me. It's been such a joy. Thank you.