Identity Positioning for Connection | Isaac Mashman

PROFITABLE TALKS

In this episode of The Profitable Creative, host Christian Brim speaks with Isaac Mashman, a personal branding expert and consultant. They discuss the importance of personal branding, the journey of Isaac from network marketing to consulting, and the challenges of self-promotion and imposter syndrome. Isaac shares insights on how to build a personal brand that resonates with your audience and the necessity of being intentional about your brand. The conversation also touches on the upcoming second edition of Isaac's book on personal branding, which aims to provide comprehensive guidance on the subject. In this conversation, Christian Brim and Isaac Mashman explore the intricacies of personal branding, the importance of identity positioning, and the responsibilities that come with being a public figure. They discuss the necessity of protecting one's craft, the value of exclusivity in business, and the importance of establishing boundaries. The dialogue emphasizes the need for a sustainable business model that can operate independently of the individual, highlighting the significance of reputation and the role it plays in attracting opportunities.

PROFITABLE TAKEAWAYS

• Personal branding is essential for anyone looking to succeed in their field.
• Your personal brand is a reflection of who you are and what you stand for.
• Many people resist self-promotion due to feelings of narcissism or imposter syndrome.
• Understanding the intention behind your personal brand can help shape your strategy.
• There are three main reasons for promoting your personal brand: money, mission, and vanity.
• Building a personal brand requires consistency and authenticity.
• Imposter syndrome can hinder your ability to embrace your expertise.
• Intentional branding can lead to greater recognition and opportunities.
• The evolution of a brand often comes from personal experiences and challenges.
• It's important to share your expertise with the world, as it can benefit others. It's your obligation to implant a memory in others' minds.
• Redefining personal branding can create deeper connections.
• Identity positioning helps establish rapport with your audience.
• Public figures have a responsibility to educate and help others.
• Protecting your craft can lead to greater long-term success.
• Narrowing your focus can simplify growth and scalability.
• Building a personal brand is essential for attracting opportunities.
• Exclusivity can enhance the value of your work.
• Creating a sustainable business requires removing yourself from the equation.
• Your reputation can work for you even when you're not present.

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Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01.575)
Welcome to another episode of the Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Special, I have problems with this every time. Special shout out, special shout out to our one listener in Gilbert, South Carolina. Thank you for listening. Never been, no, let me think about that. I've been to Hilton Head. That is South Carolina, isn't it? Anyway.

Isaac Mashman (00:01.794)
Welcome to...

Christian Brim (00:30.985)
Joining me today, my guest, Isaac Mashman of Mashman Consulting. Welcome, Isaac.

Isaac Mashman (00:37.614)
Thank you for the invitation to be here.

Christian Brim (00:39.919)
Absolutely. So why don't you tell our audience, who, who Isaac is and what Isaac does.

Isaac Mashman (00:45.934)
Yeah, that's a very in-depth story. So I'll trim off some of the fat here and there, but I'm originally from Jacksonville, Florida. I was raised in large part by a single mother. Grandfather worked in a cabinet shop and I remember getting up with my grandmother to go take him across town and we'd pick him up after school. Growing up, obviously money wasn't something that we had a lot of, especially being in that single parent household. But as I progressed through school, I was a straight A student.

mom kind of leaned into me and said, you need to go to college, you need to go ahead and get a traditional degree. And that's what I was planned, planning to do. You know, I graduated with a 4.44 weighted GPA and my senior year I went to my counselor and I said, Hey, I'm not doing college. And the reason why is I got introduced to the industry of network marketing. And I ultimately got out of the industry after joining three companies on four different occasions, but

I wanted to have more control over my life, more control over executive decisions, more control over frankly the reputation, because we all know the industry has some negative connotations with it. And I went from that industry into music management and wanted to do a record label. But Christian, I realized then that the only way to make money in the music industry is either taking it to a very high level where you're having millions and millions of people listening and going on tours and selling merchandise, or you do aggressive 360 deals where you take a piece of, you

Christian Brim (01:44.435)
Mmm.

Isaac Mashman (02:03.566)
everything the person owns. And I didn't like that at all. And so, you know, thinking about what I could do and what I was already kind of versed in, I realized that I was helping these musicians build out their personal brands and I was already building my own personal brand in my own life, you know, and it was it was amazing because every industry that I moved into every business I pivoted from people still followed me for me, they followed me for the person. And I thought that there was a lesson to be learned there and there was because

Christian Brim (02:16.67)
Mm-hmm.

Isaac Mashman (02:31.936)
Now you have the ability to build out your own personal brand and your own reputation for the individual as well as the professional in terms of the value that you can provide. now I'm building Mashman Consulting Group and it's a lot of fun. And here I am.

Christian Brim (02:46.131)
I love it. Well, yeah, I think I've had some branding folks, and some of them, you know, on the show and some of them specialized in personal brands. I think I think the thing that I have resisted in that is just the idea of promoting myself. It doesn't it doesn't feel right, but

I think there's a distinction between promoting yourself and, what you're, you're talking about in branding. And, I think also that, you know, when I think of personal brands, I think of people like, Damon John or Martha Stewart going back even further. And I don't think in today's environment, you have to be

that like you don't have to be known a household name. You don't have to be a popular in that regard as long as your brand resonates with who you want to listen, right? And technology has allowed us to be very niched if you will. So what do you see in that regard? mean,

Do other people come to you and have this resistance to self promotion? Like I do.

Isaac Mashman (04:18.796)
Well, those aren't really the people that would come to me. The people who come to me are those who already understand the value in it. But I think let's kind of set the foundation here, Christian, define what personal branding even is, because depending on the professional, depending on the expert you talk to, they're going to give you different definitions. Now, the best definition that I've been able to find is your personal brand is quite literally you. It's who you are, your personal makeup, your professional career and your outlook, your ambition, your characteristics.

The fact that you have a beautiful beard that I'm fighting to grow myself, right? That is a part of your personal brand. Now, the phrase has become so not, I don't even want to use the term overused, but it's definitely a term that more and more people are latching onto and using in their day-to-day conversations, whether in business conversations with associates or online saying, hey, this is how you can grow your personal brand on Instagram. But in 1997, a business management consultant.

Christian Brim (04:48.67)
Hmm.

Isaac Mashman (05:12.686)
by name of Tom Peters. He's since retired. He's very hard to reach. I've tried. He basically wrote an article called the brand called you for fast company. And in this 1997 article, he used the example of high paid consultants. He used the example of executives and how all of these professionals and even the emails that they receive and who reaches out to them, they have a personal brand. And he compared it to like Nike as that is the company brand. But now there's this introduction of personal brands.

If we go further, and even though the phrase wasn't used explicitly, Napoleon Hill in the chapter Organized Planning talked about how somebody could take and build a portfolio, present that portfolio to their prospective employer and say, this is all of the valuable things I can contribute and land a higher paying job that they actually wanted to land. That is an early example of a self-help new thought author using that terminology.

Christian Brim (06:01.447)
Mm-hmm.

Isaac Mashman (06:07.34)
And so today, if you don't want to talk about yourself because you feel like it's narcissistic, because you feel like it's self-promotional, which a lot of people do feel like you have to take a step back and ask yourself why you would be promoting it. Why would you want to talk about anything you have going on? And there are three main reasons. Number one is you want to make money. So, and especially in the creative space, I mean, how can you fight through with all the other videographers, the agency owners, the photographers, the comedians, the influencers, if

you are not leveraging every tool at your disposal. So money's the first. The second is mission. So this you see a lot with philanthropic or, you know, people who are philanthropy forward or billionaires go and they use their money and they want to launch a foundation or things like that. Now we could dispute the tax rebate and the tax benefits, right? If it's actually genuine, but some of the best public speakers or some of the best advocates are people who have experienced those exact situations that they're talking about, whether that be

you know, certain diseases or, you know, you know, the debilitating, you know, conditions, domestic abuse survivors, you know, think about the people like Les Brown, who started out with a stutter, who use that, use that to become his power and his leverage and built a fantastic career. And so you have the mission oriented individuals. And then the third category, which obviously, if you don't feel like you want to self promote at all, you don't fall underneath, which is vanity. And you do see that especially in the creative space, because people want

the artist wants to have more people seeing their artwork, right? And vanity is the reason why celebrities exist and why Hollywood exists. so asking yourself and determining the intention behind building your personal brand will help you develop a strategy to where you're not just saying, hey, look at how good I am, but you also have something that you can deliver to your audience. And if you could approach them, just like doing a podcast and say, hey, by listening to the profitable creative, you're going to be able to get educated in how to build a profitable agency.

Christian Brim (07:38.364)
Right.

Isaac Mashman (08:04.504)
You're going to be entertained by an interesting conversations. You're going to feel motivated to take action. And you're going to feel connected not only to me, but all of the other people who are experiencing the same issues. Those are the four outcomes of content, education, entertainment, motivation, and connection. And if you check off those four in the content you're producing, you're not doing it for you. You're definitely getting and reaping the benefits.

but it's also the people who are learning from you as the expert, the person who's been in the field for 20, 30, 40 years. And I think that's a wonderful thing. And so it's a very nuanced conversation around selfishness and selflessness.

Christian Brim (08:43.121)
Yeah, I like the way you laid that out there. That was very well articulated, which leads me to the question you have written a book on the subject, I assume. What's the book? What is the book?

Isaac Mashman (08:57.378)
Yes. Well, I wrote the first edition of the book, Personal Branding. have a copy here, Exclusal the Glare. One of the perks of having a beautiful office in the skies is like you have a beautiful view, but I'm trying to pinpoint how I could get the actual glare to be perfect. But I wrote this book in 2021 and it's rather short. And I just wanted to get something out there and kind of establish the philosophy of personal branding in reference to, you know, a person's education on the subject. And

I knew as soon as I published it that I wanted to do a second edition. I didn't want to do a separate book or anything like that. I wanted to expand on the work. Something like a Dale Carnegie with how to win friends and influence people. If you were to pick up an edition from 1930 and then pick up an edition for 2024, it's going to be a little bit different. And so I wanted to expand on it. And I've been writing over the past couple of years and different bursts and adding more information, but it's coming out in the next, well,

next two weeks, actually, at the time of recording this. And I'm talking about not just what personal branding is, why you should be leveraging mindset you need, how to brand yourself. And I'm going into subjects such as audio branding, seamless branding, the colors you use and the colors you wear in the clothing. I'm talking about reputation management, how to deal with defamation, libel, slander, how to deal with crisis. And I'm talking about marketing as well. So it's really going to be

Christian Brim (09:54.142)
Nice.

Isaac Mashman (10:19.874)
The holistic, dare I say, Bible in the personal branding space is going to clock in at over 60,000 words and over 300 pages. So I'm really excited about it. I've poured my heart and soul into it because Christian, believe that there's so much information out there. People need to have that quality information and the right information. So they're not just chasing vanity metrics or thinking short-sighted.

Christian Brim (10:42.587)
Yeah, there, there are enough, hot hucksters out there, selling all kinds of things that probably shouldn't be sold. so I want to go back to when you started this, this business. So you, had some, had some experience working in network marketing and, and, then as a music producer, what, what was that decision like to,

Isaac Mashman (10:47.118)
No kidding.

Christian Brim (11:12.617)
pivot to being a brand guy? what was that smooth? Was there were there some challenges in defining that niche for you? What? What was it like?

Isaac Mashman (11:24.878)
Well, when you have enough people coming to you and asking for advice in a particular subject, that's usually an indicator that you have a natural expertise, you have a natural way of thinking that would make sense. And I became, was actually, I won't go into the full story, but I was in California, I living in Bakersfield, California, sleeping on the floor. And this was right around the time of the pandemic. And it was, it...

Christian Brim (11:47.325)
That was probably a low point being in Bakersfield, California during the pandemic.

Isaac Mashman (11:52.918)
Being in Bakersfield, California in general is being a low point, right? But the thing is I needed to take a risk. And so I did my my you know, had a round trip flight. was flown out to VidCon in 2019 by Facebook. You know, the precursor to Facebook reels and Instagram reels was in an application called Lasso. And it ultimately failed, but it was evolved and integrated into what became reels today.

Christian Brim (11:54.697)
Period, yes.

Isaac Mashman (12:15.64)
and I was flown out as a star creator, had a round trip flight. was shuttled around in the Sprinter van, had the Creator Pass at VidCon. And for most creatives, and I never really identify as a creative myself, more is that strategic mind, but it was that defining moment in my own life where I could have flown back, but then I would have been in the same situation I was trying to leave. My grandparents were going through a rough time in their house and in their health.

My mom and I weren't on good ends and the pandemic rolled around and it wasn't something that we knew a lot about. We didn't know if it was going to kill everybody who came in contact with it. We didn't know if it was the common cold. We didn't have any of that information. And the artist was planning a concert in Fort Wayne, Indiana. I was going to fly out. had canvassed the area and had, you know, all the tickets sold. And we decided to cancel that concert. And instead he eventually lost his passion. And I knew that, all right, well, maybe the music industry isn't for me.

As much as I love it and I still love it and it's given me a lot of insights, I decided to launch a public relations firm. And that was the precursor of Mashman Consulting Group, MCG for short. And I was building that for several years. I started in 2020 and then I publicly dissolved it last year. And I felt like it came with a lot of labels. And I think as creatives, labels are something that we pay attention to because a lot of times there is some truth in it. And I was never offering

Christian Brim (13:33.597)
Yes.

Isaac Mashman (13:41.486)
public relations, Ford services. It's not like I was helping you get into press or pitching on your behalf or writing press releases for you. Those were subjects that we covered and like, yes, how could you become somebody who is press worthy rather than the person who asked you try to pay your way into Forbes? It's like, Christian, I've been able to lay in Forbes placements myself and I haven't paid for one of them. I haven't paid for any of my press. And I hold that really close to my heart. And I knew it was a change of pace. You my fiance one day, one day came to me in the bedroom and she said, get up, Isaac. You're the CEO of, know, Mashman ventures. And I'm like,

Christian Brim (13:55.58)
Right.

Isaac Mashman (14:11.726)
I didn't feel anything. I felt absolutely nothing. And that was a really defining moment to me. And it took me another year to dissolve the firm. But I knew that I wanted to have something that I could scale and really attach myself to. And that's where Mashman Consulting Group was born. Rather than running away from the label of consultant or doing consulting work, I had a mentor tell me, he's like, Isaac, effectively, you're a consultant. I'm like, no, I'm not a consultant. This is a public relations firm. He's like, it's a consultancy. I'm like, all right, all right. And through enough

Christian Brim (14:13.213)
Mmm.

Isaac Mashman (14:41.73)
you know, conversations and enough experiences and, you know, struggles, I guess you could say without going into detail about any of them. I decided to dissolve that launch MCG, but it was definitely not really a scary moment. I don't feel like I got any pushback because I already had my personal brand developed. I gone from somebody who had no audience to thousands of people online. I've landed, I landed press features. I had the experiences. was flown out places to Washington DC and Los Angeles by other companies.

And then I eventually, was like, you know what, let me just go ahead and lock in here and commit to it and not worry about the label. View that label as kind of a gift. And here I am.

Christian Brim (15:21.267)
So to clarify, you didn't want to be called a consultant. You didn't identify as why, what was wrong with that?

Isaac Mashman (15:25.752)
No.

Isaac Mashman (15:29.486)
I didn't feel like I had the expertise. even though I did it, you know, it really, if you were to look into it, it was a lot of imposter syndrome. I mean, Christian, you go online and you see these guys renting fake Lamborghinis and wearing the Rolexes that, you know, might be from some Chinese bootleg and, you know, launching a program or launching a course or this high ticket mastermind. And that's never been my intention. It's like, I want to build myself into that legacy. And I don't really care about legacy, but the way that, you know, you're perceived, you want to be that legacy business figure. You want to be that celebrity business figure.

Christian Brim (15:31.145)
Mmm.

Isaac Mashman (15:59.7)
And I didn't want to take that shortcut. And I felt like consultant kind of had that negative connotation with it. Or you look at McKinsey and Boston Consulting Group and any of these other high ticket management companies and they're getting paid billions of dollars. And they're also the people who are responsible for the opiate crisis, right? And that's kind of a scary thought. And so I did run away from that label for the longest time, but then I realized, you know what? There's nothing wrong with that. You clearly have the expertise. People are coming to you for advice.

you're at a certain point now to where you're able to go and speak at events. It's like run with it, know, run with it, Isaac. And man, that imposter syndrome and that fear definitely ate away, you know, ate away at me for the longest time.

Christian Brim (16:41.671)
Yeah. And if I'm honest with myself, that's, that's a lot of my resistance to a personal brand. But you know, I, as, as I explained it to a marketing agency owner, just my layman's terms, like every company has a brand. It's just whether you're intentional about it, because the definition that she gave me was the brand is what people remember about you.

And so people, businesses have brands and people have brands. Like you don't necessarily think of it in those terms, but you you have a memory about every person that you've met and the more significant people in your life, whether you know them personally or not, you have an opinion, a memory about them, some feeling around them and that's brand, right?

and so then to me, the question is, you going to be intentional about it or not? I, I think the, the, the imposter syndrome and is also like a huge part of it because it's not like, look, I know I'm an expert. I've been doing this long enough. If anybody's an expert, I'm an expert, right? Like no one's, no one's got more experience, on these, on these subjects.

then I have, but it does feel like a little scary to say to call yourself an expert, right? Because.

Isaac Mashman (18:18.882)
You don't call yourself an expert, Christian. That's the big indication here. You are not ever going to call yourself an expert. Other people call you an expert and then you live into that title. And that's really big.

Christian Brim (18:27.687)
Right. Well, and that yeah, I it goes back to something my college roommate said that was he was a Golden Gloves boxer and a complete badass. You know, like fighting and but no, he never talked about himself in those terms. He never, you know, it was he and he said to me, he said, you know,

if you're really good, other people talk about you. And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, that's right. I mean, that's true. You shouldn't have to talk about yourself. And that's, that's kind of where I'm stuck. Like, I don't want to talk about myself. You know what I'm saying?

Isaac Mashman (19:10.968)
Well, let me, number one, when it comes to your personal brand, you have it whether you want it or not. It's like, you know, the moment you were born, I would dare say, I'd make the argument that you've had your personal brand even farther than you, you know, you have memory of. Your mom named you, your mom and dad determined where you were born. I mean, think about even miscarriages, right? And this is kind of, I've never used this example, but think about a family who has a miscarriage baby. They're called an angel baby. They still have a name.

Christian Brim (19:16.091)
Exactly.

Christian Brim (19:22.665)
Sure, sure. No, I-

Isaac Mashman (19:37.528)
they still have reputation. would say that they even have a personal brand, right? Because, and then people who are in faith, they believe that they'll be reunited with that baby in heaven, right? I would say that every single person who's walked this earth has had a personal brand. And I would also say that you actually don't have a memory of every person you've ever met because you've forgotten about some of them. And if you forgot about them, that is a failed execution on their part for their own personal brand. Now that doesn't mean that they even care.

Christian Brim (19:37.801)
Mm-hmm.

Sure.

Christian Brim (19:45.736)
Right?

Christian Brim (19:56.137)
True. Sure.

Isaac Mashman (20:04.458)
It's like you're not going to remember every cashier you meet at McDonald's or every person you meet out of retail store. But the ones who have the greatest impact on you, you definitely will remember. Or the people who you can go back to 10 years or 20 years after your high school graduation and you're like, hey, how are you doing, Johnny? Great to see you, right? The people who you were closest to. And I would say in your case, if you have and you say that you have more expertise than everybody else, isn't it your obligation to share that with the world?

Christian Brim (20:33.459)
don't know, you know, you're right. And it is, and, if, if you believe that there's a mission that you're supposed to fulfill, it is your obligation to implant a memory in, their, in their minds so that when they are struggling with the thing, the things that I can help with that they remember, no, you're, you're, you're exactly right. And, and I guess kind of like you get stuck.

on, on, got stuck on the word consultant. To me, I just kind of get stuck on the word brand. I mean, it sounds, it sounds wrong. I don't know. Maybe you can come up with a different word rather than personal brand. Maybe there's a, okay, let's hear it.

Isaac Mashman (21:14.434)
Well, I have actually, I have. But it's more of a strategy that I developed earlier this year because a lot of people, you'll go online and you'll follow their social media and they only talk about the business. They only talk about what they're doing. They're only talking about how they can make you money, how they make money. And it's very one-sided. And if another expert came along, another person who had maybe more engaging content, you don't have any loyalty to that one individual because you only know them for the professional, what they can do for you.

Christian Brim (21:33.193)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (21:43.346)
Right.

Isaac Mashman (21:43.352)
But if you incorporate that personal aspect, right? And actually realize, hey, they're a father, they love the outdoors, they love to travel, they're an advocate for X, Y, and Z cause, you are going to become more attached to that person because there's more mutual connection, there's more rapport and more trust. And so I wrote an academic paper earlier this year and the entire paper is gonna be at the end of the second edition called Identity Positioning. Because effectively what you're doing is you're positioning your identity for the world to see.

Christian Brim (22:09.163)
Okay.

Isaac Mashman (22:09.39)
for everybody else to see. And so what you're really doing is you're publicizing your identity here. Because your identity is not just your career, it's what makes you you, right? Your interests, the fact that you grow a beard, the fact that you're dressed in a black button-up, the fact that you have a trophy and what I assume is probably a sound system in the back that tells me that you probably like music. You probably have a record player, right? And then now we can go into it and have a conversation about records and maybe there's some shared interests there, some shared musicians that we listen to.

Christian Brim (22:13.929)
Mm-hmm.

Isaac Mashman (22:38.508)
These are ways to establish rapport with your audience at scale. And so I would say that looking at this instead of a tactic for you to try to find some strategy to make money and make it about you, if you feel like that is a big hurdle, well, make it about the other person and say, you know what, I could create a video right now and talk about where agency owners go wrong. I could talk about how creatives battle with imposter syndrome or some of the similar struggles or if your clients come to you and say, hey, Christian, I'm struggling with X, Y, Z.

I don't know what to do. And that's a common issue, a common pain point, just like me with press, you know, people are like, how can I get into the press? Well, let me record a video and tell you about it. Right. Let me host a webinar and educate multiple people about it. And so I think that changing your perspective there from, you know, brand about you and maybe the outward deliverables that you're able to give is probably a good thing. And it's something that will give you that sense of mission. And not everybody listening to this needs to have some mission of curing polio.

Christian Brim (23:16.903)
Right.

Isaac Mashman (23:37.662)
or making it to where they're the number one creative in their space. But I will say that positioning yourself as a public figure and as somebody who can stand out and cut through the noise definitely comes with more benefits than it does downsides and drawbacks. And that's really the key here, positioning yourself as a public figure for other people to follow and look to. And that's a gift. And Spider-Man, with great power comes great responsibility.

Not using that exact example in my book, but I talk about how this is a gift. It's an obligation. It's a expectation. And just because you have the power to do something doesn't mean you need to do it. You need to have integrity. You need to have a moral compass. But I would say that the world needs more people who are able to say, hey, I have legitimacy. I can get you legitimate results. And I'm here to educate and here to help.

Christian Brim (24:29.095)
Yeah. I think about my, my daughter who is a figurative oil painter and she has, she's done a magnificent job on protecting her brand. Although I don't think she would ever frame it or phrase it that way. you know, in, in terms of like, she figured out early on that she didn't want to do commission work. mean, she did when she started out cause

that was how she paid the bills. you know, it's, it's, she's very intentional about where she shows her art, what, what, you know, what, what studios she wants to engage with. And, and it's, it's, it's all about protecting her, her craft, right? Like, you know, she, she wants, she would say a certain vibe and

Isaac Mashman (25:20.376)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (25:27.107)
And if you're down with that vibe, great. If you're not, that's fine too. Like I'm not trying to be everything for everyone. and, I think that's, that's a struggle. A lot of people have is they make it into a popularity contest, right? And, and, and whether that's business or personal, like, you know, I know in our business, we, we screwed up,

because we try to do too many things for too many different people, right? And it's much harder to scale and grow a business when you're trying to be everything to everyone. If you focus on what you're really good at and who you can really help, it may feel like you're limiting yourself, you know, taking opportunity off the table, so to speak. But I think it actually creates a focus that

Isaac Mashman (25:57.027)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (26:22.665)
allows things to go much easier. It certainly has been in my experience.

Isaac Mashman (26:27.81)
Well, and artists are a great example to use because the fact you introduced her as an oil painter, right? Now I know and have this frame of point in my mind saying, all right, well, she's not dealing with clay. She's not a potter. She isn't somebody who's using charcoal or black and gray. So I'm able to kind of paint an image there. And that's a part of her personal brand. She's an oil painter. And then you think about other artists like Van Gogh or Dolly or H.R. Geiger, who influenced the alien movies.

Christian Brim (26:38.675)
Right. Right.

Christian Brim (26:44.775)
Right.

Isaac Mashman (26:55.842)
These are individuals who had a particular style and that's what made them attractive. Some of them after death, but some of them when they're alive and today, you have these people who are creating artwork and they're like, hey, posting my artwork until it reaches my audience, right? And these are videos that are reaching potentially billions of people and they're becoming known as an artist in that particular field. And that is something unique that they're able to offer. And then what your daughter's doing is she's maintaining and

Christian Brim (27:10.473)
Right.

Isaac Mashman (27:23.832)
protecting her reputation. And she's also making cautious decisions about, all right, well, this gallery isn't going to make sense because they only focus on nature landscapes. I don't paint nature landscapes, but this gallery over here might be more eclectic or be more in line with what I'm trying to do. And then the other thing to move on to the conversation surrounding, know, niching down, I'm not an advocate for micro niching and like being like, I only work with, you know, public figures in this particular field who are trying to become public speakers. Like, I'm not going to do that.

Christian Brim (27:32.807)
Right. Right.

Isaac Mashman (27:53.624)
but I am going to know that I'm not going to be for everybody in terms of finances, right? And if you're not qualified to work with me today, guess what? I have an entire slew of content that you can consume to eventually get to that point. And so even in your business, from a business standpoint, it's also a fantastic lead magnet and a way to generate leads because you're reaching the masses, you're educating people, you're becoming that mentor figure. one of my earliest figures, and I don't follow him today,

is Gary Vee, like so many other people in line, right? I don't follow him, but he will forever have a place in my heart and mind because he's kind of the introduction into this entire world of business. And if you could be that person who's the first mentor somebody has without even knowing that you're their mentor, now you have a point in their heart and a part in their mind and life and outcome. And I think that's a beautiful thing. And so,

Christian Brim (28:24.905)
Right.

Christian Brim (28:33.662)
Right?

Isaac Mashman (28:48.75)
It's definitely, I didn't see the conversation flowing this way, it's definitely an important conversation to have.

Christian Brim (28:54.141)
Well, another thing that I was thinking as you were talking like she, she originally started doing prints and selling prints of her work. But, she, she stopped doing that. And, and again, it was to protect, protect her brand. Right. She, she didn't want copies. She wanted originals out there. And does that mean that she, for she, for went some money? Yeah.

You know the stability of having predictable because he's a lower price point people buy prints all the time, right? Yes, but I what she realized is that it's sullied the original I mean like it made the original less valuable if there were prints out there and Again, you can take that to any business. It doesn't it doesn't matter that it's not the exact same situation, but just the idea

that you're willing to not do things, not do certain things to protect what you actually do. saying no for me has been a lifelong problem. But you know, it's absolutely necessary in business to say no to a lot of things.

Isaac Mashman (29:57.378)
Mm-hmm.

Isaac Mashman (30:10.759)
Yeah. And establishing those boundaries is actually making her work more exclusive, which means in the long run, she'd probably make more money. Right. And so again, you're, you're balancing short-term vision with long-term planning here. And, you know, she could sell the prints for 20 bucks or 30 bucks, but it would be better if she could say, Hey, this is not in reproduction in any form. So now, yeah, that's going to make her become more sought after.

Christian Brim (30:17.597)
Yes.

Christian Brim (30:32.167)
Right. Right.

Isaac Mashman (30:36.734)
And it's kind of like the photographer who only does weddings, right? Who only does weddings. And in that situation, you can either limit yourself or you can become the number one wedding photographer that celebrities pay and have come out. So it's really like a bunch of business decisions here too. And how you want to build your brand is really, you have to ask yourself, what do want to be known for long-term? Who do I want to be working with? How do I want to be perceived? How do I my clients to be like, and then...

from there, it's up to you to kind of fill in the little points of strategy and say, all right, well, now I need to go out and get into the press or I need to have more testimonials. I need to have a better reputation for my business. you know, in the creative space too, a lot of creatives don't feel like they have a separate business, right? And so there's this gray, blurry area between the person and the business and what they're providing. You know, if you're a photographer and you're not trying to build out a photography business where you have other photographers, it's like you are your photography business. relies heavily on you.

Christian Brim (31:33.779)
Correct.

Isaac Mashman (31:35.692)
Now, if you decide to scale or you want to bring on more videographers and more photographers and a team behind you, now you're starting to build a separate business and moving away from the sole proprietor into the business owner. And it's like for me with the consulting business, I'm never going to scale to nine figures as an individual consultant. But how I can scale to nine figures over the next decade is by bringing on a team of consultants, delegating roles and having them go out and get their own clients and do and expand the reach of the business. You know, the lawyer who starts out

Christian Brim (31:52.361)
Correct.

Christian Brim (32:01.437)
Yes. Yes.

Isaac Mashman (32:05.748)
and only practices law and doesn't have any other paralegals or doesn't have any other lawyers or partners underneath their team is going to be very limited. And so I would say building out your personal brand will also make it more attractive for you to hire the right people and people who are aligned with you. Because now if somebody wanted to become a consultant for me, they'd have to fall underneath a very set and strict list of contingencies here and be able to believe in the philosophy that I'm presenting, be able to believe in the

Christian Brim (32:21.011)
Yes.

Isaac Mashman (32:32.546)
you know, the moral compass, the integrity, the ethics that we're setting forth and working with our clients. And so it gives you more power. And yeah, I don't see any drawback. You know, if you were to ask me, the only drawback in building your personal brand to a high level would be a lack of privacy. But we don't have privacy anyway. You know, I feel like privacy is such a, you know, it's like, yeah, I want to be a private individual. All right. If you don't want to share that you have kids, if you don't want your kids to be a part of your personal brand, don't publicize it.

Christian Brim (32:39.773)
Yes.

Christian Brim (32:49.862)
Ha ha ha.

Isaac Mashman (33:00.12)
But the moment you take a photo of your kid and put it on your Instagram, you'll forever be known and people know you're a parent. People might become interested in your life, in their life. They'll know your kid's names. And so it's really a matter of determining the amount of public information you want made available. But for me, for example, if you were to go to Google and type in any piece of information about me, like where I was born, my parents, things like that, you'd be able to find a lot of information. And I made that decision early on.

Christian Brim (33:28.103)
Yeah. And you mentioned that idea of, of the business being separate from the, the creative. And I think that's something a lot of people struggle with. And, you know, it's not just creatives. It's, all entrepreneurs, but I think creatives have, a deeper tie. but I I've said, like, if you can't leave.

Your business and it still make money without you. You don't have a business. You have a job, which is totally fine. I'm not, I'm not knocking that, but if, if you want to have something that is a business that exists beyond you, you have to remove yourself eventually from the equation. You have to set it up that way. doesn't happen that way. but.

Isaac Mashman (34:23.352)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (34:25.677)
you know, most people don't want to put in the work, frankly, that that that that involves because it is work and and it is about checking your ego and say, you know, it's it's not about me. It's not about what I can do. It's about can I business build a sustainable business that that functions without

Isaac Mashman (34:49.334)
That's an entirely different beast. that's something that's a big focus on my point. This year, you know, I'm doing public speaking. I'm getting paid for that. I'm publishing my book. And then now I'm getting ready to bring on a COO, long-term business partner. He's also the editor for my book. And I've known him for years now. And it came about because of a podcast interview in 2019. He's like, he was in college and he's like, Hey, Isaac, I'm doing this podcast. I saw your content online on Twitter.

Christian Brim (34:51.56)
Guess.

Isaac Mashman (35:15.17)
I would love to have a conversation with you and one thing led to another. And that's how that relationship got built. Now I want to bring him on to where he can, he can handle the day to day where he can bring on more consultants to where we can build this into a structure where I could focus on the things that I'm best at. And then while also doing that, I'm scaling my consulting rate because now, yeah, you might not want, you might want to work with me, but it's like what I'm going to be charging is going to be higher than the other consultant on my team. You'd still be able to get great results and great value and you know, be an association and

Christian Brim (35:38.803)
Correct.

Isaac Mashman (35:45.23)
you know, viewing your business as a living organism, right? And as something that has culture, something that has a brand, something that has a vision, something that has, you know, set standards. All of these things are parts of a business that most people very rarely get to. You you look at Robert Kiyosaki, here comes the network marketing side of me, right? You know, if you look at Robert Kiyosaki's cashflow quadrant, right? The four squares, and it's like 60 % are employees, 30 % are self-employed, 4 % are business owners, and 1 % are investors.

Christian Brim (35:48.243)
Mm-hmm.

Isaac Mashman (36:15.126)
Most people fall underneath the self-employed category. I have for the longest time, but now it's like, you know, bringing on a booking agent, for example, to help me with public speaking is an example of expanding my team and building a team around my personal brand. Now, not everybody will do that, but if you want to take it to a higher level, whatever your mission might be, whatever your purpose might be, these are all requirements. And yeah, it might take you five years to start compounding results, but once you get that ball rolling and the reputation is set,

your reputation is going to be working for you 24 seven. And, you know, in my book, I talk about how, you know, having a strong personal brand is like having a promoter, a marketer, a representative working for you, even when you're in bed, because how many emails do I get every single night when I'm asleep in my bed that are coming to me, pitching me, asking me, you know, these are all examples of my personal brand speaking for myself. And that's how opportunities can start to, you know, become attracted to you because you're

Well, you're attractive, you know, it's like, I love the beard though. You got the Greek God Zeus going on.

Christian Brim (37:16.275)
Thank you. I appreciate it. you weren't talking about me. Sorry. Yes. Well, my wife said I looked like Papa Smurf, which I actually took offense to. Yeah. I said I'm not blue and my beard is not entirely white and I don't wear a hat. So Isaac, how do people find your new book or your old book if they want to buy the old version?

Isaac Mashman (37:43.358)
Don't purchase the first edition, purchase the second one. It'll cost you a couple of dollars extra, but it will pay off in dividends when you buy it. It's coming out February 21st, which is next Friday. It's going to be available on Amazon and pretty much every other distributor I can possibly get it into. So it will probably be available on target.com, walmart.com. know, once you do things enough times, you learn a few mistakes and a few better ways of going about it. And so the publication process here,

Christian Brim (38:00.201)
Yes.

Christian Brim (38:08.061)
Yes.

Isaac Mashman (38:11.502)
you will not be able to tell that this book was self-published, which is done intentionally. I'm pouring my heart and soul into this thing. Partly why I feel like my speech and the way I'm telling stories in the podcast is kind of all over the place because I'm in this author writing mode and I'm like, have a hundred plus sub chapters of information I'm putting down on paper. So my apologies if at any point I was a little scatterbrained.

Christian Brim (38:33.083)
No. No. if people want to work with you, how do they find that?

Isaac Mashman (38:38.71)
For that, you would go to mashmancg.com. It's Mashman Consulting Group. We have a really cool AI chat bot on the bottom. It's called KPI. You go through that, have a quick conversation, and it'll take you to an overview presentation with an onboarding survey. Or you could reach out to me directly if you want to work with me and have me help you with your personal brand and put together a strategy in place and optimize it and scale it. So, Christian, it's been a great conversation. I've really appreciated it.

Christian Brim (39:07.013)
Absolutely listeners will have all of those links in the show notes if you like what you've heard Please rate the podcast share the podcast subscribe to the podcast if you don't like what you heard Shoot us a message. Let us know what you'd like to hear and we'll replace Isaac until then ta-ta for now