Solving Problems | Jessica Adanich

PROFITABLE TALKS...

In this conversation, Jessica Adanich shares her journey of starting her own agency, highlighting the challenges she faced, particularly in sales, and the mindset that helped her navigate these obstacles. She emphasizes the importance of a positive attitude and the willingness to learn and adapt in the entrepreneurial landscape.

PROFITABLE TAKEAWAYS...

• Not knowing how to do sales was a major challenge.
• Jumping into entrepreneurship felt like jumping out of a plane.
• The mindset of 'say yes and then figure it out' is powerful.
• Learning how to sell is crucial for business success.
• Resilience is key in overcoming entrepreneurial challenges.
• A positive mindset can help navigate uncertainties.
• It's important to embrace learning opportunities.
• Success often comes from taking risks and adapting.
• Entrepreneurs must be willing to learn on the go.
• The journey of entrepreneurship is filled with growth opportunities.

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Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01.125)
Welcome to another edition of the Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to... I'm gonna start that one over. Welcome to another episode of the Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Special shout out to our one listener in Holland, Michigan. Evidently the Dutch got lost and claimed the entire state.

Thanks for listening. Joining me today, Jessica Adnich with DesignPod Studios. Jessica, welcome to the show.

Jessica Adanich (00:41.964)
Thank you! Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Christian Brim (00:45.317)
Well, I'm excited you're here too. I I've been stumbling all over my words, but you, you, you are going to elevate the show. That's what I've decided.

Jessica Adanich (00:54.072)
I... okay. I... that's a lot of pressure, but I will take it. We're starting off strong.

Christian Brim (01:01.809)
So tell us about DesignPod. What is it that you guys do specifically?

Jessica Adanich (01:07.692)
Yes, so Design Pod Studio is a design agency that focuses on branding, which is your logo and everything visually and aesthetic that makes up your branding. It's not just your logo. then graphic design pretty much for anything. And then marketing strategies, which is really a fancy term for saying we help you make a plan because to really be successful, you need to make a plan and execute it well versus just driving aimlessly.

Christian Brim (01:28.198)
Yes.

Christian Brim (01:35.447)
And how long has DesignPod been around?

Jessica Adanich (01:38.752)
It will be seven in December, so seven next week. Thank you.

Christian Brim (01:42.223)
Nice. It's gone into grade school now.

Jessica Adanich (01:46.26)
I know, we graduated.

Christian Brim (01:48.133)
Yeah. And you went through COVID. So congratulations. what did you do before that?

Jessica Adanich (01:52.504)
Thank you. Prior to that, I actually ran the design and marketing department for Mace brand pepper spray for six years. Yes, it was. It was. I really, really loved it. I felt like I was using my.

Christian Brim (02:01.907)
okay. Okay.

Christian Brim (02:09.137)
See, I didn't even know that was a brand name, Mace. It's kind of like Kleenex. just, you know, it's just, you know, okay.

Jessica Adanich (02:14.252)
Yes. Yeah, like Xerox, Kleenex, Rollerblades. And I appreciate you bringing that up because when I was there, that was one of the main things that we worked on daily was making sure that we did not lose our registration because technically if you have a registered brand, another company, any company, but usually it's a competitor can come after you claiming that it's been genericized if people use it as a verb. And often if you hear a story or someone will say,

Christian Brim (02:18.843)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (02:39.611)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Adanich (02:44.302)
someone was maced. Well, you're losing your registration because now it's become genericized. Yeah. It was a constant battle because whether it was a positive or negative story in the news, whether someone used mace brand pepper spray or not, it was always they were maced. And that's a very difficult thing to get away from. You know, if you have a tissue in your house, it's a Kleenex, right? Yeah.

Christian Brim (02:46.225)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (02:50.375)
So were you successful in that endeavor?

Christian Brim (02:55.42)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (03:10.215)
Kleenex, yeah. Except my friend that worked for Procter & Gamble and she kept calling them facial tissues because they didn't sell Kleenex. like, okay, yeah. Right. It's been, yes, evidently it had been beaten into her. I mean, in a lot of ways, you're talking about being a victim of your own success there where you've got such a ubiquitous product, everybody uses it.

Jessica Adanich (03:23.116)
That's when you know that it's been beaten into you.

Christian Brim (03:40.043)
And yeah, so okay, that's interesting. So who is it that you work with in your design pod studio? Like who's your target customer?

Jessica Adanich (03:51.532)
Well, Target audience, you know...

I tell people that our target audience really is about the mindset of the business owner. We work with a lot of different companies. We do specialize in the tactical industry because of my background. We work with companies that are in the firearms, self-defense spray, ammunition, firearm accessories, because it is a niche. But we also work with a lot of other companies, realtors, chiropractors, authors.

Christian Brim (04:09.447)
Mmm.

Jessica Adanich (04:22.882)
But the one thing they all have in common is that they understand the value in investing in professional design and professional marketing services. I think that marketing and design has in today's world almost become a luxury service, especially with AI and Canva and other tools. A lot of times people think that they are a graphic designer. We now have smartphones with high resolution cameras so you can be a photographer.

So it really is the mindset of the business owner where they want to hire someone to be a teammate and help them elevate their brand.

Christian Brim (04:57.305)
I've been using a Canva for a long time and I would definitely not claim to be a designer, but you, you, you speak to a common problem. as, as the tools become cheaper and more available, it opens up to people thinking more into the DIY. but, you know, I, I, the reality is you, you can't.

Jessica Adanich (05:18.893)
Yes.

Christian Brim (05:27.847)
teach someone to be a professional. Whether that be a designer or an accountant or a doctor or whatever. Or a plumber. It doesn't really work, right? You either do something professionally and are good at it or you don't. And DIY tools have a place but they're not a replacement.

Jessica Adanich (05:54.488)
Correct. And I love that you said tool because that's what I tell people is that AI is not going anywhere. It is a tool. Would you use a screwdriver for every project? No, it's just a tool in the toolbox. Knowing how to use it well, responsibly and when is very appropriate. You know, it's important. I'm finding now a lot of

startups, solo entrepreneurs are coming to us because they've utilized AI or some of these tools and then they've gotten so far down the road where now they're having to invest the money that they didn't want to invest in the first place because their logo file isn't the proper file or it wasn't, you know, it's not, it's not registrationable. You know, there's, all these different things that happen when you don't use tools, when you're uneducated on the tool and then you create something and

Christian Brim (06:32.977)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Adanich (06:45.058)
There you are, you have this stuff and now you gotta work with it.

Christian Brim (06:48.807)
I've often said it's like that old joke about the plumbers rates and it's like, you know, it's $50 if I do it, if you watch it's 75 and if you help it's a hundred dollars an hour. And, you know, that is true in our job. I've said this to so many people and accounting technology, QuickBooks, I started Core Group before QuickBooks even existed.

That's how old I am. And... Thank you. I have a face for radio. This is why this is an audio-only podcast. We do record it in video for some strange reason. But in any case, my point was that with QuickBooks, I have never, ever, not once, zero times looked at someone's QuickBooks file as an accountant.

Jessica Adanich (07:22.529)
Never would have guessed.

Christian Brim (07:48.43)
and seen something that was accurate. Now, have I seen some that were usable? Yes. Even people that had professional bookkeepers or full-time accountants working in the business. The thing with QuickBooks was just kind of fascinating to me, and I wonder if we see this. Maybe we do with Canven. Maybe you can opine on it, but like...

What happens like with the accounting space is QuickBooks is designed for the business owner that does not know anything about accounting, right? And so the user interface is entirely different. And so a professional bookkeeper generally hates QuickBooks because they get into it and they know what they need to do or want to do, but they can't figure out how to do it because the software is not designed for them. Yeah.

Jessica Adanich (08:44.92)
Yes, yes, it does. Yes, because I will say, I will admit, I use Canva for clients because at the end of the day, it is a tool for me and I'm all about creating a box for someone versus forcing them into a box. So if for the company and the team, if it's best for me to design a product sell sheet in Canva so they can make adjustments themselves, then I'll do that. Obviously it's gonna look better for.

Christian Brim (08:45.637)
Does this happen in Canva or some other software? Maybe not Canva.

Christian Brim (08:56.529)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Adanich (09:14.072)
professional does it versus them. But when I first was learning Canva, it's so different than other design softwares out there that it was not intuitive. It's like, okay, this is, this is definitely made for somebody who's not a designer. And now I need to change my way of thinking to function in it, which is quite fascinating. And now I just had a client the other day that I was designing their logo for them using Adobe Illustrator, which is

Christian Brim (09:22.972)
Right.

Christian Brim (09:28.033)
Exactly. Exactly.

Christian Brim (09:34.887)
Yeah.

Jessica Adanich (09:43.854)
Aside from Affinity, it is the best software out there to use when you're creating logos. And he said, well, just send it to me in Canva and I can make corrections to it. And I had to explain to them, no, it's not in Canva. And even if it was in Canva, you wouldn't have a proper working file for your logo. it's just fascinating to me because we've gotten to the point where you can be at the store and hear someone in the next aisle say, that's Photoshop.

We now live in a world where people can recognize if something's been photoshopped or something's been used with AI, but there's not enough of the learning curve or that intelligence to understand how we got there. You know, they're just using these terms. So it's, there's.

Christian Brim (10:13.596)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (10:27.911)
I'm still trying to figure out how cell phones work, right? I don't know. mean, there's, there's radio waves in the air somewhere. don't.

Jessica Adanich (10:37.26)
Right? Yes. The Wiffy. It's connected to the Wiffy.

Christian Brim (10:39.387)
Yeah, yes. And it goes on the interwebs. back to my point of like, you know, it's actually harder for professionals to unfuck something that you've done and then then it is to do it yourself. Right. And hence the different prices for the plumber. Right. Like if you're going to help, it's going to take longer and and it's not going to be as good.

Jessica Adanich (10:55.426)
Yes.

Yes.

Jessica Adanich (11:07.918)
Correct, yes. you know, the other part of that is the saying where the mechanic comes in and he fixes it within five minutes and the bill's $300. Well, he had the knowledge and he had the tool. You can get something done much faster and more efficient, but I've also been in the business 20 years. So of course I'm going be able to do something more efficient and better because that's what I do. I wasn't good at what I am doing, then I shouldn't be doing it.

Christian Brim (11:27.942)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (11:36.976)
Absolutely. And that is, that is one of my main arguments that, professionals and creatives, should not bill by the hour. Like the whole concept of billing by the hour, puts you into a no win scenario because as you get better at what you do, as you utilize tools and technology, you're going to be quicker and better at it. And therefore you should charge less. No, that's, that's exactly opposite. Right.

Jessica Adanich (12:05.838)
Yes. And it does. I think it really depends on the person. know, there are scenarios because I own the business because I like to work with people. You know, I feel like all tides rise, all ships. So if a company starting out and I see it as like a farming situation, you know, if I plant a seed with them and I help them out with their budget, then that's great. But then I also have gotten very good at reading the tea leaves. And if it's a client that there's going to be 87 revisions.

like we're going to have parameters in it. think that creatives should protect themselves because accounting two plus two for probably the rest of our lifetime should be always four unless things change. Whereas...

Christian Brim (12:47.459)
Well, you just, I'm sorry, you just opened the door for my favorite accountant joke, I'm sorry. And they were interviewing accountants. And the only question they asked them was, you know, what was two plus two? And they get to the final candidate and they haven't hired anybody. And they asked this guy, what's two plus two? And he leaned back in his chair and he said, well, what number did you have in mind?

Jessica Adanich (12:54.243)
Yeah.

Jessica Adanich (13:13.002)
Christian Brim (13:15.554)
Hahaha!

Jessica Adanich (13:16.014)
Okay, okay, yes, yes. I like that one. I like that one. That's very good. No, that's, I'm glad you did. That's brilliant. I'm gonna steal that. I will give you credit to it. I'll put you in the footnote.

Christian Brim (13:19.953)
Yes, yes. Yeah. Sorry, I interrupted you. Go back.

Christian Brim (13:30.929)
Thank you. I didn't, I did not invent the joke. I just repeated it.

Jessica Adanich (13:34.924)
Well, it's brilliant. It's very spot on. But to that point, two plus two should be four. But in creative design land, there could be endless revisions because design is something that makes us feel. It gives emotion. So often people will say, well, that makes me feel X, Y, Z. They can't articulate how they want it to aesthetically be. They can just explain how they feel. And as a designer, you might like something and see it as this is the way we should go. But

the client's not going to like it. So the revisions can be endless. So I think it's very important for creatives to have healthy boundaries in the quoting process and the revisions because otherwise it could be a revolving door of just endless, endlessness.

Christian Brim (14:17.203)
absolutely. But that still doesn't justify charging by the hour. You can't talk me into that argument. I won't accept it.

Jessica Adanich (14:24.622)
Yes. Well, I've also, you know, if you've worked your way up to have a good hourly rates, you know, this isn't a $20 Fiver situation. It's, know, you're charging. mean, now professional designers can go anywhere from 100 to $250 an hour based on their experience and what they're working on. So, and I think that those people also at that point, they

They charge it because they know that at the end of the day, they can be efficient. instead of like, and I think it comes down to like morals and ethics. So if I know a client is tight on their budget and I can get something done for them in an hour. And yes, I probably could charge more for it, but their budget can only do an hour of my time. I'll get it done because they'll

Christian Brim (14:56.72)
Right, right.

Christian Brim (15:11.397)
Right, no, no, no. You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm saying not tying the outcome to a time, unless it's a deadline, right? So like, I need a logo. I don't really know or care how long it takes you to make it.

Jessica Adanich (15:19.938)
Yes.

Jessica Adanich (15:26.502)
True. Yes. branding, branding prep packages are what they are. I'm talking regular graphic design work, you know.

Christian Brim (15:28.378)
Yeah?

Christian Brim (15:35.249)
So you're you're paying others.

Jessica Adanich (15:38.452)
No, I, a client comes to me and you know, I have a self-defense spray client that I do label work for them. You know, anytime they have new labels or changes, not Mace, different company, not Mace. But it's easier for me to charge them by the hour because it's kind of like an attorney. They need one change on the label. It takes me 15 minutes. I do the work. So, okay. I mean, fair, fair.

Christian Brim (15:45.255)
Not Mace.

Christian Brim (16:01.915)
You're not talking me into it. No. Okay. Here's, here's my example. Here's my example, Jessica. Okay. When I was very new, oftentimes businesses come to us and they've got a whole bunch of shit that they haven't done for a long time. We call that back work. And, he, he was saying, how much to clean this up? And I said at the time, well, it'd be a hundred dollars an hour. And he blew his stack. He was like, I don't even pay my lawyer a hundred dollars an hour.

And I'm like, OK. So I changed tax. I went and I asked the bookkeeper, said, what's the most amount of time it would take you to fix this? And she said, I don't know, 10 hours. I went back to him and I said, it'll be $1,500. He goes, oh, OK, that's not bad.

Jessica Adanich (16:57.326)
Yes, no, there's a psychology to it. You know, it's the 99 versus the zero zero. Yes. Yes. No, I do. You know, like 99 cents versus a dollar that psychology.

Christian Brim (16:59.687)
100 %

Christian Brim (17:05.675)
Right. But no, he got stuck and that's the problem with pricing is there's always some reference or anchor. Right. And so he got stuck on his attorney's billable rate and attorneys are the worst business people besides accountants in the whole world. So you shouldn't really use them as an example. But my point was is that he couldn't get over that because he thought we were worthless than an attorney. Right. So I was stuck on that.

Jessica Adanich (17:16.205)
Yes.

Christian Brim (17:35.407)
Right. And you can't, you can't say I'm going to charge you by the hour and then like pad your hours because that's unethical. Right. So I just, I just shifted it to, okay, I'll, I'll, this is what I'm going to charge you and whatever time it takes us, it takes us. And, and that he was tickled as punch.

Jessica Adanich (17:36.611)
Right.

Jessica Adanich (17:43.64)
Correct.

Jessica Adanich (17:56.174)
Well, that makes sense. And I do understand that because in his mind, he probably thought hourly rate. my gosh, there's no cap. What do I do? This could go on forever. I don't have a set number for my budget. Yes. Yes.

Christian Brim (18:06.471)
Yes, yes. And in your situation, if someone is anchoring against Canva, which is free, I don't

Jessica Adanich (18:15.756)
You actually have to, there is a free version, but there is a paid version if you want to do certain functions within it.

Christian Brim (18:21.497)
Okay. So, so I I'm saying I'm anchoring in my head. Well, I can do this for free. I don't know how much time it's going to take me. I really don't know how good I'm at it. And I don't know what it's going to look like. Right. But it, but it, comes back to, I think what you're saying is not getting, not getting sucked into that because I think the DIY wires of the world are not the ideal, professional, customers, right?

Like the person that's going to not go to the doctor and say, yeah, I got WebMD. I'm fine. You know, I don't need to go to blood work. Yeah, I Googled it. It says I'm going to die of cancer in six months, know, whatever. Like they're not the same people that are going to pay for professional advice or appreciate professional advice. So

Jessica Adanich (18:51.022)
Correct.

Jessica Adanich (18:59.521)
I googled it.

Christian Brim (19:14.919)
I think the thing is to just not get engaged into that conversation at all and do what you can to keep those people from even coming and asking.

Jessica Adanich (19:25.134)
Correct. And there's, I think it's the book called Book Yourself Solid, where they talk about the concept of the red velvet rope policy that you hopefully get to a point in business where you have that VIP line of getting to work with who you want to work with. And when you interact with a potential client and you see maybe writing on the wall that either your personalities might clash, you might not be a good fit, they might cause a lot of problems, you're able to say, this might not be the best.

Christian Brim (19:29.894)
Mmm.

Jessica Adanich (19:52.771)
fit, you let me help you find someone else that might be a better, you know, working partner. that's a great position to be in because over time, I know I'm much better now than when I first started my business at reading people at understanding, they going to nitpick? Are they going to micromanage? And the people that haggle about price versus understanding what the project and my years of experience and skillset are worth are different. You know, the person who haggles on price is going to be the bigger pain than the person who says,

Okay, that's your bill, that's in our budget, awesome, get it done, I trust you. And... No!

Christian Brim (20:26.939)
Yeah, so not accountants, not engineers. We're going to argue all day about that. Absolutely. Okay, so I'm going to pivot here and ask a question. So why, if you have this deep background of self-defense type companies, why have you not exclusively targeted them?

Jessica Adanich (20:36.685)
Yes.

Jessica Adanich (20:56.888)
Well, I do within the company have a division, DesignPod Tactical that on the website, if you go to designpod.studio, you can enter DesignPod and then there's DesignPod Tactical. And I did that to your point to target them, no pun intended, because when I show up to a trade show, know, chick, blonde curly hair, brown curly hair, depending on what it's dyed. And I say I specialize in the tactical industry. don't really.

Christian Brim (21:00.743)
Mm-hmm. okay.

Jessica Adanich (21:24.738)
there's a disconnect, right? But if I'm able to have a website or part of the site with experience saying, I've worked with these brands, I know what I'm talking about. It lends to that, not to mention it helps with SEO and all of the algorithms there. So I do definitely target that market, but I don't want to put myself in a box because we do love working with all sorts of different companies.

Christian Brim (21:49.576)
Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to push here a little, see how far you'll go. do you think that there is enough work in that industry? Like to take your business wherever you want it to go, whatever size or revenue or whatever, is there enough in that space to, to get you there?

Jessica Adanich (21:53.836)
Yes.

Jessica Adanich (22:16.854)
Yes, there is.

Christian Brim (22:17.113)
Not that you have personally yet, but like the whole universe.

Jessica Adanich (22:20.27)
Correct. that industry is absolutely massive. You if you think about during COVID, the three top biggest sellers were obviously healthcare, firearms and alcohol. mean, yes, every industry goes through ups and downs, but it is quite a massive industry.

A lot of them do value good design and understand that it's needed to help sell their products.

Christian Brim (22:51.235)
Okay, so why are you hedging?

Jessica Adanich (22:55.128)
What do mean hedging? Well, I'll tell you, when I first started, I'll be completely honest. I started doing the math 28, well, I'm always honest. In 2018, when I started, I was going to come out of the gate with a tactical name, but I didn't want, that was even before cancel culture was really cancel culture at that time. I didn't want to put myself in a box where maybe I wasn't gonna get.

Christian Brim (23:02.439)
I'd prefer that.

Christian Brim (23:11.731)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Adanich (23:22.004)
brand new clients that were in the tactical industry as a new company. And let's be real, I was really, really, I am really good at design, but I was a new business owner. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing when it came to getting clients, sales, any of that. So

Christian Brim (23:32.583)
Mm-hmm. So we'll boil that down. We'll distill that down to fear. Okay.

Jessica Adanich (23:41.792)
yes, was the fear of I didn't want to put myself in a corner and limit myself when I knew that I didn't know what I didn't know and I knew that. So I needed to keep my options open to be able to get the clients that I needed to to grow, to be successful.

Christian Brim (23:53.617)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (24:03.623)
So now seven years onto it. Onto it? Is that even a word? Into it. Onto it. Here's another aside. We used to have a client a long time ago. He has since passed. I don't know if he had some type of Tourette's or I really don't know, but he would say onto it randomly in the conversation onto it, just like that onto it.

Jessica Adanich (24:06.754)
Yes. Very British of you. On to it.

Christian Brim (24:31.043)
And, and, but he never said anything else. It wasn't like Tourette's where I don't really don't think he had Tourette's. I really just think he said it onto it a lot. Anyway, so you're seven years into it. yeah, it's crazy. We meet a lot of strange folks. you, you, you're seven years into it. Now you talked about that velvet rope book yourself solid.

Jessica Adanich (24:46.958)
I love it. I love it.

Jessica Adanich (24:55.981)
Yes.

Christian Brim (24:57.617)
Do you see maybe that you are splitting your efforts? This is not a critique. don't know you. I don't know you at all. We haven't researched you. I'm just.

Jessica Adanich (25:02.313)
No, because... No!

We've only been 25 minutes into this new friendship. Yes. No. And I've gotten that question many, many times before. And the reason the answer is no is because it goes back to the mindset of the business owner. I can meet someone and I have a client right now. She has been making soap for 40 years in Alaska. She is of the same mindset in terms of how she looks at design, marketing, investing in it as someone in the firearms industry.

Christian Brim (25:09.978)
Right, right.

Jessica Adanich (25:34.562)
So I, yes, I do love that industry and it's a niche of mine, but I would much rather have a positive, healthy working relationship with the client than be in the right industry. So I, cause to me, I tell potential clients all the time, it's like business dating. What I do is fun. This should be fun. And if you don't enjoy working with me, no sweat off my back, I will help you find someone else that you like the aesthetic of their design. You like their personality, but this should be fun.

Christian Brim (25:44.273)
Hmm, no.

Jessica Adanich (26:01.112)
There's too many stressful things in business to have us not have fun while we do this. So it really is about the business owner, not necessarily the industry.

Christian Brim (26:10.341)
Yeah. But being a branding person, I'm sorry. I'm not, does it cause any confusion? Right? Like I'll give you, I'll give you core as an example. Okay. We, we did a rebranding this year, because our, our head of revenue said our old brand does not resonate with our target market. And I'm like, yeah, I wouldn't disagree with that. but now

Jessica Adanich (26:18.924)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (26:39.015)
This is the reality. We've had some of our existing clients, what I call legacy clients, not target market clients. So we didn't just go through and fire everybody just because they weren't in our target market, right? This is a relationship business and our clients stick with us for, you know, on average nine years. And so like, we're not just going to get rid of those people. But what we saw when we did the rebrand is we actually had those people leave us quicker.

Jessica Adanich (26:51.863)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (27:06.651)
Because I think subconsciously they were saying, well, this isn't, this isn't my place. This isn't my people. Right. And, and, and I think that's the, that's how my definition of branding, like that means it was a success is because it's not only attracting the right people, but it's repelling the wrong people. So putting that back to you is, is the tactical turned off.

Jessica Adanich (27:14.103)
Yeah.

Jessica Adanich (27:30.018)
Yes.

Christian Brim (27:36.497)
by pod bean pod pod pod pod pod peoples.

Jessica Adanich (27:40.614)
pod pod pod people pod pod yeah no it actually had and now I have a business card I have a few different business card designs based on what I'm doing because I'm a design right but the one because one of them is like a mini billboard on the front it clearly says branding graphic design marketing strategies because design pod could be an interior design company I could be an architect it doesn't really tell you what you do so I literally have a business card that's a billboard I go to trade shows

Christian Brim (27:53.788)
Okay.

Jessica Adanich (28:09.634)
Here's my card. You'll remember what I do because it's really big on the front unless you have, can't see your, know, but then I have another card that, you know, all the cards have both logos on them, but there, I see them as like stepping stones where it's both design pod. It's an entry point because at the end of the day, they're still getting me. It's just allowing them to access the company through a door that works for them. And those that enter through the design pod tactical side,

Christian Brim (28:24.711)
Mm.

Jessica Adanich (28:38.978)
they might have a spouse that has a soap company or is a realtor. And in their mind, instead of putting me in the box of she only works with tactile companies, she's helping our firearm company. I actually have a cousin that she could help that is a realtor. I love working with Jess. I love working with her team. Let me connect her. it, cause people, they're goldfish, right? And if you tell them one thing, they're going to get stuck on that. Bless you.

Christian Brim (29:07.303)
you sorry good lord huh okay I appreciate you letting me push a push on that I because here's here's the reality I believe to be true after sorry the bird clock means it's the top of the hour

Jessica Adanich (29:09.902)
You're good.

Jessica Adanich (29:14.553)
yeah.

Christian Brim (29:27.525)
Okay, I think it's got one more in it.

Jessica Adanich (29:31.63)
Three is a good number.

Christian Brim (29:33.828)
in my, in my almost 29 years of, of this journey of entrepreneurship, I can tell you that the fastest way to traction and profitability is a clear focus on who you're solving a problem for and, and, and what the value of your solution is. and the tighter you can get that.

target that that problem that you solve, the easier it is to, you know, take care of their needs, and to market to them. I also have seen in myself, and in virtually every entrepreneur, the resistance to taking that focus, because exactly what you said is the fear factor like

Jessica Adanich (30:18.317)
Yes.

Christian Brim (30:32.059)
I don't want to leave business on the table. And those are real things. Okay, so, but thank you. I'm gonna pivot. Go ahead.

Jessica Adanich (30:40.598)
And I will, and before you, before you pivot, will say in the beginning, was fear. Now I own that we have design pod and design pod tactical and that they are virtually the same. But again, it's not about fear. It's connecting with that person who wants to invest in good design. There's a reason I don't have pricing on my website.

I very easily could be like many other agencies right now where you go to their website and there's packages for certain things. It's like when you go to a restaurant and you don't see pricing on the menu, you know that they're probably going to be really good, but probably more expensive. So yeah.

Christian Brim (31:17.829)
Right. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So pivoting, what, what, what were some of the challenges that you encountered, seven years ago through the seven years, in, in starting your own agency, coming out of working for a private company, what were some of the challenges?

Jessica Adanich (31:38.04)
The big one is not knowing how to do sales for myself at all. You know, how there's a lot. No, God no. I never even thought about it. I mean, I jumped out of the plane not knowing if my parachute would open. I did not have a business plan. kind of, had a, tell people an early midlife crisis and spontaneously resigned because

Christian Brim (31:43.719)
Mm.

Did you think you were good at sales?

Christian Brim (31:51.003)
Okay.

Christian Brim (32:03.867)
Hmm.

Jessica Adanich (32:07.118)
because of, you know, at that time there was kind of a takeover happening at Mace and I saw the writing on the wall that we were all gonna be kind of let go anyways and I saw that as an opportunity to either, you know, try my own thing or apply for other jobs and I thought, well, screw it, I'll try to do this. And I knew that I could figure it out. My parents had always raised me with the saying of say yes and then figure out how to get it done. And I had always done that my entire life. So it's, you can learn it.

Christian Brim (32:24.849)
Yes.

Jessica Adanich (32:36.622)
It wasn't a matter of if I could, it was just how do I get there? And that has been something over time. And yes, what I do for a living is branding and marketing, but I think every entrepreneur overthinks their own shit to death. you know, I can tell it's like when you have a friend who's asking for advice and you can tell them advice very easily and they can look you in the face and say, well, why didn't you do that? You know, it's very hard when it's your own stuff. So that's been two of the big things is

How do I, what are my core values and foundation of my company? How do I want to want to run it morally and ethically? And how does that connect to getting sales? Because there's a lot of different ways to run an agency. And what does that look for look like for me and my team and the future of my company?

Christian Brim (33:25.553)
So did you do any formal sales training? Did you just kind of learn it on the job?

Jessica Adanich (33:30.962)
No, I just kind of learned through experience. Definitely over the last seven years made mistakes for sure. But I will say that to date, the majority of our clients come from referrals because I feel and I know that that does at least for us, that works the best because people like to do business with people that they know, like and trust. And especially in the creative world, going up to someone saying, hey,

your logo is not so great. That's like telling them they have an ugly baby. It doesn't go real well, but if they know their baby's ugly, using that analogy, and they understand that they need help in whatever area and they have the money for it, that already starts the sales process. Then it's just about closing it in terms of do they like myself, the team, do they like our type of work? And that's much of a smaller gap to close versus me trying to explain to them why they need us in the first place. So over time it's been learning.

that sales process and selling ourselves as to what we're good at. In the very beginning, good Lord, someone would come to us and I'd say, yes, we'll do it. We don't do that now. If it's not something that we're really, really good at, we say, we're not really good at that, but we know someone we can introduce you to. And I think that that's very important in terms of growth because you can't, unless you're a massive, massive company, you can't do everything really, really well.

Christian Brim (34:58.241)
No, you're, you're a hundred percent right. And I think that the quicker that you figure out the nose, like this is not what I'm good at. This is not what I want to do. This is what we can't make money at. Like figuring out the nose, quickly is, is recipe for success. getting bogged down and those things that you should say no to, are, are that can be a, a nightmare, frankly.

Jessica Adanich (35:17.57)
Yes.

Christian Brim (35:27.751)
So anything else that you didn't know you didn't know when you started out?

Jessica Adanich (35:34.586)
I think a lot of the everyday business things like accounting, creating contracts, proposals, how to quote a job, that was something in the very beginning I had, you know, no idea what to set an hourly rate as to then calculate what a project would be. How much, how much time would know I know that but to give you some sort of baseline for

Christian Brim (35:56.806)
You shouldn't. We already discussed that. I'm sorry.

Jessica Adanich (36:02.454)
what a project would cost you, right? You just because you go online and Google says it's going to be, you know, average range is $500 to $5,000 for a logo design. Where are we at? you know, all of that was very difficult to decide because when you're in the beginning, you want all the clients, you need the clients to succeed, but where's your breaking point? At what point do you say, yeah, we'll do it for that cost versus no, sorry, we can't.

Christian Brim (36:14.715)
Right.

Christian Brim (36:30.289)
Yeah, yes, 100%. And it kind of goes back to that statement I said, knowing what the problem is that you're solving for who and what the value of your solution is. And when you're dealing with the things like marketing and even to a certain extent, accounting, maybe all professional services.

They're they're very intangible and it's hard to quantify The value and oftentimes it does go back to what you mentioned which was feelings and How do you make someone feel I just finished unreasonable hospitality. Have you read that book?

Jessica Adanich (37:08.365)
Yes.

Jessica Adanich (37:19.47)
I have not, but I've heard very good things about it.

Christian Brim (37:22.119)
It actually inspired me, it re-inspired me. I waited tables many years ago and I always loved it. And I loved the hospitality aspect of it. But this guy who was one of the founders of 11 Madison Park, which went on to become the number one restaurant in the world, he was talking about

all of us being in the hospitality business, you know, and it's really how do you make people feel? Try explaining that to a bunch of accountants. Because, know, in their mind, like, I did the work, I did it right. They're very linear analytical thinkers, right? I did the work, I did it right, I did it on time, why are you not happy? Right? And trying to make them understand that it's not...

Jessica Adanich (37:58.648)
Yeah.

Jessica Adanich (38:04.95)
Yes.

Jessica Adanich (38:11.853)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (38:15.641)
what you did is how you made them feel.

Jessica Adanich (38:18.69)
the customer service aspect.

Christian Brim (38:20.589)
Right. And that's something we spend a tremendous energy, amount of energy, time and money on in our education internally is around emotional intelligence and communication styles and all of those things, because that's the difference between doing business with us and other accountants is not the math. The math is two plus two equals four. Right.

Jessica Adanich (38:47.052)
Whatever you want it to be.

Christian Brim (38:49.729)
you know, but do they feel heard? Do they feel seen? Do they feel understood? know, those exactly, those are the most important things that you deliver in service, whether where there's graphic designer accounting.

Jessica Adanich (38:56.398)
Do you have trust with them? Do they have? Yes.

Jessica Adanich (39:04.898)
Yes, but all of that comes from the foundation of your branding, how your company's built. you guys probably within everything that you have, those elements are in there, right? Like your, how you treat your internal team, how you educate them, how that's passed forward to the client, all of that goes back to your foundations of branding. You know, I tell people,

You have to figure out what your mission and your core values are because that is going to be your true star north. And if you understand that customer service and how you interact with your clients is something to be valued and that it should be treated a certain way that needs to be across the board in every aspect of your company.

Christian Brim (39:48.306)
Yes. And I think that, you know, treating, treating your internal team, as well as, or better than you do your customers is, is really critical. That, that old statement of like, if you take care of your people, they'll take care of your customers. And that, is true. and, and, and there's also this

Jessica Adanich (40:11.438)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (40:16.889)
understanding that you can't assume that your team knows what that looks like. Because, for instance, none of my employees are ever going to be business owners, right? So a lot of the conversations are around getting into how what their day looks like. What what you know, like, accounting is what you think about all day every day. It is not on their mind every day all day, right? Like it's an afterthought, right?

Jessica Adanich (40:45.516)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (40:46.035)
and, so like getting, getting your team up to speed on understanding what the customer's experience is like is important because they're never going to experience it. like I had a guest on here that was talking about customer service and he was talking about, client of his, which was a high end, hotel. said, well,

Most of the staff, your maids and your house cleaners, they're never gonna stay in a place like this. So you can't assume that they understand what the standard should be because it's not that they don't want to, it's just that they don't have a frame of reference.

Jessica Adanich (41:29.568)
Yeah. No, I mean, that's very, very true. and I, I, reminds me, I have a client who every time he brings on a new team member, he does either like a disc assessment or some sort of personality assessment to understand where their strengths are so he can put them in the best spot and also be able to communicate with them better because he understands as an entrepreneur and someone who has several businesses that not everybody

Christian Brim (41:42.769)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Adanich (41:57.442)
has the same experiences, will have the same experiences in life, or can communicate in the same way or process things the same way. You can say the same thing to five different people and they might take it five different ways just because of the way that they're learning processes.

Christian Brim (42:18.009)
Absolutely. So, anything that you have learned in the last seven years that you would, like to go back and tell yourself, from seven years ago.

Jessica Adanich (42:32.826)
I guess there are, for sure. I had a client that I put all my eggs in one basket and when that did not work out well, then that I started out at ground zero again. And so I once heard from someone when you go into business with someone that you should treat it kind of planning for getting divorced.

Christian Brim (42:33.284)
like watch out for this one.

Jessica Adanich (43:01.686)
Not that you ever want to get divorced, but you should prepare as a business owner that when you enter into a partnership, whether it's a client company, you know, two business partners, you plan for divorce because you protect yourself. And had I had that mindset going in with that client, then I would have covered my ass. But they were people that I had known for over a decade and I felt comfortable. And when they were put in a position, they

ended up choosing morally and ethically not the right route. And many of us got the short end of the stick. And now I trust people, but I also in the back of my mind plan for how can this go wrong? Not that it's the glass is half empty. It's the real list of you need to plan for both positive and negative. And I think, you know,

But it got me to where I am now. I very much believe that things happen for a reason and I needed to learn certain lessons and I clearly learned it well. So...

Christian Brim (44:04.665)
Well, you were, you were good then it takes me like multiple times of getting beat over the head to learn the lesson. So if you, if it only took you. okay. Okay. Yeah. I, and that's often a challenge for, for, for new business owners because they don't understand that, everything is on their shoulders, so to speak. And the, the decisions,

Jessica Adanich (44:11.406)
Well, we're not talking about my dating life. That's a different...

Business is different.

Christian Brim (44:33.497)
are yours to make and yours to live with and no one's coming to save you and and and people look out for their own interest 99 times out of 100 right so if it's me or you it's going to be you jessica's gone like not me

Jessica Adanich (44:45.56)
Yes.

Jessica Adanich (44:53.124)
yes, yes. And that was this exact situation to a T. People that I thought would never cross me or throw me under the bus. I was very clearly looking at the bottom of the bus. that then, yeah, I was like, okay. I saw who was driving that bus. Note to self. And when...

Christian Brim (45:05.607)
saying this looks interesting.

Jessica Adanich (45:16.232)
I'm lucky that I learned so quickly and that there were things that turned around for me, but it was a big slap in the face of, Jess, you really F'd up here. You know, you, not that you shouldn't trust, but that you didn't plan properly. And then once I heard that saying of always plan for divorce, it was like, okay, that makes sense. so yeah, I think that that's one thing. And also the idea, as cheesy as it sounds, work life balance. I love what I do, but

Christian Brim (45:42.887)
Hmm.

Jessica Adanich (45:45.122)
to your point of it is on your shoulders all the time. I think it's important to have a healthy work-life balance, whatever that looks like for you. I'm still working on that because I do love what I do. But asking for help, you know, when you realize that you might not know what you don't know or you don't know what you, you know, asking people. There are people that I'm very, very lucky that I have individuals in my life that have been in business.

30, 40 years that I can go to and say, Hey, I'm in a pickle. I don't know what I'm doing. What do I do? I can't see straight. I'm the walls are closing on me. That happens in business and being able to say, okay, I might be screwed in this situation. How do I get out? And being able to say that that makes a strong business owner. A lot of people don't want to admit their faults or admit that they need help. And that is going to make you very successful waving the white flag of somebody helped me.

Christian Brim (46:37.551)
Yeah. Entrepreneurship is, I mean, you can do it solo, but it's a lot harder. and you, know, I think for me, the struggle has been this holding these two things in, in mind at the same time of confidence in where we're going. but the, lack of clarity of how we're going to get there.

And that manifests itself in a lot of different ways. One of which is, you know, I do have to ask for help because I don't know. But I still have to have the confidence to move forward, which is hard to do sometimes to hold those two things into.

Jessica Adanich (47:17.219)
Yes.

Jessica Adanich (47:21.406)
Yes, and because someone can give you their professional opinion, their experience being in business for very long, but it's up to you to make that decision. No one's going to make that decision for you. So you could have five different opinions and you're like, okay, that's super great. It's like being a little kid again. Can you just put me in timeout? Like give me a snack, make me take a nap. And everyone's like, no, you need to do that yourself. Yeah.

Christian Brim (47:29.735)
100 %

Christian Brim (47:39.782)
Yes.

Christian Brim (47:43.333)
that that's exactly right so just if people wanted to learn more about design pod how do they do that or design pod tactical I want to that in

Jessica Adanich (47:51.244)
Yes, they can. Well, you can get to both by going to designpod.studio and then you can also connect with me on LinkedIn, Jessica Adnitch.

Christian Brim (47:55.558)
Okay.

Christian Brim (48:04.571)
Just thank you very much for going along this journey with me and playing playing ball. Listeners, if you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. We'll have her link in the show notes. And if you don't like that, shoot us a message and let us know what you'd like to hear and we'll get rid of Jess until next time. Ta ta for now.

Jessica Adanich (48:09.11)
Yes!

Jessica Adanich (48:28.376)
Yeah, it's fine.