How Do You Go From Freelancer to Business Owner? | Cameron King

PROFITABLE TALKS...

On this episode of The Profitable Creative, host Christian Brim sits down with Cameron King of King’s CoLab to unpack the journey from freelancer to business owner—and what it really takes to build a creative career that lasts.

Cameron shares how he fell into the world of political and advocacy media, why niching down isn’t always a choice, and how proximity to outcomes—not just execution—unlocks higher income and impact.

They also dive into the realities of running a cyclical business, the mindset shift from “making things look good” to driving results, and the deeper motivations behind building something that outlives you.

This conversation goes beyond tactics—exploring legacy, money, faith, and what it actually means to be a profitable creative.

PROFITABLE TAKEAWAYS...

•  How Cameron built a niche in political media 
•  Why “the niche sometimes picks you” 
•  The shift from freelancer → business owner 
•  Pricing based on outcomes vs execution 
•  Managing feast-and-famine cycles in business 
•  Why being “closer to the money” matters 
•  The tension between creativity and profit 
•  Legacy, impact, and building something beyond yourself 
•  Faith, money mindset, and entrepreneurship 

Join our community of creative entrepreneurs and get a free copy of our No-BS Guide To Making Your Creative Business Actually Profitable delivered straight to your inbox. We’ll share smart, simple tips to help you keep more of what you earn—no boring accountant talk, we promise.  
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Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01.16)
Welcome to another episode of the Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Special shout out to our one listener in Cranston, Rhode Island. I have visited Providence. I'm assuming Cranston can't be too far away because it's a very small state. But in any case, thank you for listening.

Joining me today is Cameron King of King's CoLab. Cameron, welcome to the show.

Cameron (00:32.984)
Thanks for having me, Christian.

Christian Brim (00:34.46)
Absolutely. So, tell us a little bit about Kings Colab. What, what is it that you do?

Cameron (00:42.316)
What is it that I do? Well, I can give you sort of the long history and the short history. okay. So essentially nowadays I would say my primary, you know, sort of, my primary industry that I work in is in political and advocacy work. So I do a lot of political work, lot of advocacy work, and that is probably the bulk of my

Christian Brim (00:49.182)
Let's start with a short.

Christian Brim (01:04.032)
time.

Cameron (01:10.478)
of our income that comes in here. And then of course, along the way I've been doing this for almost 20 years, I get random random projects as well. But as far as like, you know, a target industry, that is probably the target industry right now. And then that's sort of the sort of the niche that I've I've fallen into and have become very good at and started getting a lot of callbacks. So I decided to go ahead and just go all in on it. So.

Christian Brim (01:35.07)
And so when you say political advocacy, you're working with promoting candidates. No.

Cameron (01:41.602)
Yeah, essentially on the creative and media side of things. Yeah, we do a lot of the ads and strategy when it comes to anything really digital and our say our primary focus is video. So we do a lot of video, a lot of video ads, static ads too, but primarily on the video and motion design side of things.

Christian Brim (01:57.204)
Okay.

Christian Brim (02:05.844)
That's interesting. I want to dig into that. Do you know Chris Wilson by any chance? I guess he's what you'd loosely call a pollster. Been around a long time. OK. So how did you get into political advocacy? That seems an odd thing to niche to.

Cameron (02:11.918)
I'm off topic.

Cameron (02:17.143)
Okay.

Cameron (02:28.514)
Well, I mean, I've been, like I said, I've been in the industry in some capacity in creative since I graduated college in 2006, cut my teeth in Washington, DC. I'm from, I live in Louisiana now, moved back in, back in the day, 20 years ago, you know, to get a job in this industry, you had to actually.

moved to a town that could support your industry. And in Louisiana, there wasn't much of a video market other than working at a local news station or something like that, right?

Christian Brim (02:50.238)
Right.

Christian Brim (02:59.368)
You could do work with James Carville. I mean, he is always entertaining to listen to. Okay.

Cameron (03:04.415)
this is before, this is like when I was in my twenties, man. So I just wanted to, I just wanted to play with cameras and edit videos. You know what I mean? So I was young and dumb and didn't know anything about, you know, business side of things. I just wanted to, and back in the day, you know, it would have a, editing system would cost you at least 20 grand, right? So, and then, but now it's days you can do it on your phone. So, but that's another, that's another thing. So, so yeah, so I went to Washington, DC.

Christian Brim (03:21.278)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron (03:31.821)
And just, you know, start doing work in government, you know, doing communications there. And then, eventually kind of just went freelance up there and fell into, you know, a lot of the work that comes around up there is political work. So a lot of your consultants are up there and your, and your house is up there. This is like sort of the era, the pinnacle era of the boutique post-house. And so there was tons of post houses up there and I just kind of freelanced and hop around from.

from post house to post house during the political season. And that's kind of what I just fell into. I didn't want to get into it. It just kind of happened because I was young and dumb enough to say yes to everything. yeah, and eventually just kind of got into it and always just kind of had the same contacts probably since 2010 and kind of just hopped around from the same people who just wanted to rehire me or rehire me every couple of years.

I did it because the money was good, but I didn't really think too much about it other than like, all right, this is some money every couple of years, I'll do it. And then do brand work on the off years too, except that other brand work as well for other major brands along the journey. And then it wasn't until a few years ago that I decided to sort of take my own business up a notch. And instead of being like a freelancer,

Kind of move myself into glorified freelancer. now I'm sort of repositioning myself as more than just that, but as a studio owner, business owner, and actually pursuing these clients, you know, instead of being a line item, being sort of first, first at the top. So, and getting closer to where, you know, the pot of gold is so to speak. Right. and, yeah. So just kind of just since I've been doing it for so long, I've just gotten really good at it. What I get, what would take me.

Christian Brim (04:59.86)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (05:07.582)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron (05:23.192)
Two days in 2010 can take me two hours now. You just become efficient and become fast and you know what works and you can speak the lingo and it just made sense, right? So a lot of people talk about, you know, picking a niche. Sometimes the niche just picks you, you know, and that's kind of what happened.

Christian Brim (05:40.489)
Yeah, I, you said something there, I think is shouldn't be glossed over closer to the pot of gold. I think the closer you are to the end result, the outcome that is desired by whoever's paying you, the more money you can make. Right. and, and you know, that, that

Christian Brim (06:12.756)
That paradigm of where that, what that rainbow, if we're gonna continue that analogy, has shifted because of technology, for sure. Some middlemen, so to speak, have gone away. And so it's kind of forced you to be closer to the...

Cameron (06:21.691)
Ha

Christian Brim (06:42.034)
ultimate solution to continue to be relevant and to make money. I want to ask this question. You're in an interesting industry or your target market in that they have an unusual sales cycle. Yeah. Politics runs on a two year cycle, at least at the federal level. How do you manage that?

where there are like really busy seasons and then like really slow seasons, is not the normal. Like you might be a wedding photographer and you've got a season within the year, but yours is like spans multi years. How do you handle that as a business owner?

Cameron (07:31.565)
still figuring that out. But there is sort of this saying in our industry that if you can break even on the off year, then you're actually a healthy business. So I, before I actually jumped into this sort of head on a few years ago, I was in a lot of other things sort of shipped it as well in the past, I would say five years within the past.

Christian Brim (07:32.788)
Ha ha ha!

Christian Brim (07:40.288)
Mmm.

Cameron (08:00.526)
three to five years, things have really shifted as far as marketing dollars ago. Five years ago, the off years were filled with brand work and a lot of that money has moved towards influencers and other just things, right? It's moved to other parts of the industry, which is fine. That's sort of the natural way things go. So, you know.

Christian Brim (08:09.599)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron (08:28.736)
Right now it takes a bit of planning. So what I know I'm going to make this year, I need to hold onto some of it for next year. So I might make double or triple what I'd make in the off year. And I know to hold some of that back. Right. But also fill the gaps. Like I said, I still take on other work that might either be word of mouth or, or, or refer to me from someone else and it might have nothing to do with politics. It might just be like, Hey,

Christian Brim (08:40.519)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Cameron (08:58.924)
my company needs a brand video or we need some instructional how-to videos on how to train people or what I could do totally random, right? And that's just from knowing people for a long time.

Christian Brim (09:06.452)
Right.

Christian Brim (09:11.882)
Yeah, that poses an interesting problem because if you're going to get traction in a completely different segment, and you're not doing it for two years at a time or a year at a time because you're drinking through a fire hose with the political season, having something that was you can come back to where the pipeline is not going to be completely dry, that seems like a difficult challenge.

Cameron (09:41.059)
Yeah. Yeah. And it's something that I'm, I'm working on for sure. Like I still like during the off years, we'll still go to, I still go to conferences and stuff like that in the political market just to keep, you know, keep good company or whatever. but yeah, during the off year, still trying to figure that out. Like I said, some, some things of, luckily, you know, God has provided opportunities in between the two, in between the cycles, which is nice, but you know,

Christian Brim (10:05.394)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron (10:09.612)
What do I focus on in between those years? you know, at least I'm, I make enough and get, and get busy enough on the on years to where it has afforded me the luxury of trying to figure that out. now I'm playing around with, there's like local company here in town that I've been doing some other things for, not necessarily video work, but just general marketing in general. And it's a smaller company, probably like

lower seven figures, but like, can we help them go to the next level? So just like kind of doing experiments like that and seeing what I can do. Um, whether it takes me anywhere else, I don't know. We'll kind of figure that out as it goes along, but that's kind of, I'm kind of leaving myself open to that. Yeah. In the off years.

Christian Brim (10:54.952)
I'm wondering, just as a thought exercise, is there anything that these and I'm assuming that you're getting paid by the candidates for the most part, not by parties or, or packs or things like that.

Cameron (11:12.298)
It just, really depends. it's all over the place. A lot of times it is, a lot of times it is packs. sometimes I work through agencies. Sometimes I work, it's, it's kind of all over the place depending on, cause it's a very much a relationship game. so, yeah, I mean, yeah, you know what I mean? You really don't like these sort of like just in a weird way, it's kind of a, what do call it? The game behind the game, so to speak, right?

Christian Brim (11:16.01)
Okay.

Christian Brim (11:22.216)
huh.

Christian Brim (11:30.024)
Okay. Yeah.

Well...

Christian Brim (11:39.443)
Yeah, I guess where I was going with that is like your your candidates don't exist necessarily in the off years or maybe they do but they're not spending money. And I'm just wondering if there's something some problem that you can help them solve during those times when they're not spending money.

I don't know. I mean, I, I'm not familiar with the political money scape. know there is a lot of money, but I I'm just curious if you, if you have any thoughts about that, like if, if there was a, a problem for the same customer, that you could solve for them in those off years that, could sustain you, anything come to mind?

Cameron (12:39.296)
Yeah. A few things. well, one thing in particular, and that is just, you know, I think of, don't quote me. mean, I hope I'm not wrong. Is it FDR? I believe what, who did the fireside chats? Okay. Yeah. just to make sure I wouldn't roll. But yeah. So something equivalent to that, right? Cause a lot of these guys, they get hired and yeah, they might be on the news, local news or whatever, or you'll see a press release or something, but what, some, some of these candidates are doing a good job of it.

Christian Brim (12:51.101)
That was FDR.

Christian Brim (12:57.513)
Hmm

Cameron (13:08.57)
having like, you know, they'll pop up on TikTok once or twice a week, just kind of update people or, it's, it's kind of a, it's a hard sell depending on who we're talking about. Cause if I'm honest, like some of these folks are not made for TV. They're not, mean, the ones that are made for TV are the same ones you see all the time. You know what I mean? Like there's still, you know, 300 other ones you don't see that much. so, yeah. So it's, it's kind of like,

Christian Brim (13:27.911)
Right, right.

Cameron (13:39.246)
Do they want to be finicking or messing with, you know, a social media strategy and their off years if their personality doesn't really, you know, adhere to it.

Christian Brim (13:48.929)
Yeah, but here's my thought on that is that, you know, if I'm a politician and I have aspirations to, you know, go further, a lot of that is about your popularity, your name recognition, you people knowing who you are, what you're about. It would make more sense to me as a person.

that I would do that continuously rather intermittently for a couple of reasons. One, it's cheaper to be consistent and do it when media buys aren't maxed out by the bandwidth of an election. But also from a clarity standpoint, I think

when you get into those cycles, you've got to be putting out a certain type of content to even be noticed. You know, it kind of it kind of lends itself to the extreme or the short snippet or like, as opposed to like, a long form content, a podcast even right, like where you you you

Cameron (14:57.838)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (15:15.282)
are building up your brand as a politician and and like this this is long form content who I am not just sound bites for you know somebody's tic toc reel I don't know that's just kind of my thoughts on it unsolicited but there you have them

Cameron (15:28.75)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron (15:33.967)
Yeah, yeah, no, no, I agree. Right. And yeah, no, I agree. Yes, I don't know how else to say it, but I agree. But I have my sort of like other thoughts on on my hot takes, so to speak, on on things like social media. I'm not the most active person and stuff like that. But, you know, I don't want to get all into that. But, you know.

Christian Brim (16:02.1)
Why not? Let's hear it.

Cameron (16:03.494)
you know, all right. Well, you know, well, some hot takes basically are that, maybe it's just devil advocate. I don't know what it is, but you know, we're becoming so saturated right now. And then you got things like AI slough and, know, all the gurus and all the stuff like that. And I don't know, man, I just have my,

hesitations, but also, I also feel like we're being fed something that I'm not saying it might not work for politicians because politicians are on a different stratosphere of like, you know, name recognition and stuff. But I don't know. I just think, I just think most people are just tired of tired of it all. You know what I mean? So it's just

Christian Brim (16:48.756)
Well, yeah. I mean, I guess what I'm saying is like, okay, you do a poll and they've done these polls of like, negative ads. Nobody likes them. then why do they keep doing that? Well, because they work. Right. but, but I would say that if a politician were more consistent about building their brand and communicating their message outside of campaign ads,

Cameron (16:58.295)
Mm-mm.

Christian Brim (17:18.656)
during election season, it would tone a lot of that down because it's like, you already know who I am. Because I've been talking about it for the last two years and I've been every place and I've been saying those things. I don't even think, I don't know if politicians from a political standpoint even think in those terms. Like they're only focused on the election cycle.

Cameron (17:48.963)
No, I agree. Vast majority of them are, or even their packs too, right? Yeah. No, you're, mean, I think you're kind of preaching to the choir and I think we'll, see, we'll see how it goes. mean, some of them, the more.

sophisticated ones or not sophisticated, that's the word, but just forward thinking ones are probably are thinking of those terms. Like you have, you know, Mom Donnie this year who was big in social media. I'm sure he'll stay that way. but yeah, we'll, we'll see.

Christian Brim (18:15.21)
Well, he might be an interesting case. I don't know a lot about him not being from New York City and not really paying attention to New York politics. But, you know, from the outsider's perspective is like, well, where where'd this guy come from? Like he just had this grassroots. And I would think kind of speaking to what you said that people are sick of.

they're sick of the sound bites. They're sick of the, negativity, the, the polarization, the, the lack of a middle ground. Like it's just this extreme rhetoric, from both sides, even to the point where like currently they're, they're talking about passing the safe act and Congress. And, and if you look at it, just, you know, I don't care what

side of the aisle you're on or what you're, you're wanting to have happen with the legislation. If you look at the legislation itself and the popularity with the people, just looking at the polling data, it should be a no brainer. Like there's, there's nobody. And like, I think like 80 % of the polling is in favor of the, type of election integrity.

but then you get Chuck Schumer talking about it being Jim Crow 2.0 and it's like, okay, no one buys that right? Like, I mean, maybe there are some extreme, you know, elements that, that, and that's who he's messaging to. but it's the strange paradigm of like,

Cameron (19:50.84)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron (19:54.604)
huh.

Christian Brim (20:06.12)
You know what you're saying is a complete cognitive disconnect to what everybody else is thinking and saying. It just I mean that's just an example that comes to mind.

Cameron (20:15.81)
Yeah. Yep.

Yeah. I mean, that's, that's just old school messaging right, right there. So, I mean, I don't know. I don't want to, I don't really know the strategy behind all of that, but, but I, I agree. yeah, I don't know where we're going with that. Sorry. I I got lost in thought, but I'm ruminating here.

Christian Brim (20:38.054)
I kind of veered off on a strange political tangent and and a state of the union kind of thing I apologize We can we can drive back to the purpose of the show So when you started your business Really really relaunched it went from freelancer to you know building a business. What was that mind shift like?

Cameron (20:42.382)
Hahaha.

Cameron (20:46.488)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron (20:49.998)
You

Christian Brim (21:05.977)
What was, what was the thing that changed for you?

Cameron (21:10.52)
man, that is something.

It's still, it's still, cause I still find myself falling back into that mindset to a freelancer, right? And depending on who the client is, sometimes I will take on certain types of project work or whatever. If I have a good, if I have a strong relationship with them or whatever, I'm like, yeah, sure. If you're in a pinch, let's, let's, let's work something out. But really it's just.

Christian Brim (21:20.454)
Mm. Mm.

Cameron (21:39.815)
Knowing how to position your own mind and your own sort of way that you talk about yourself is probably the hardest thing. So right now I'm trying to focus more. And you mentioned this earlier more on the outcomes, right? More on like what I can actually do to help the business versus like, I can make this pretty thing. And I guess that, and I guess that helps your business. don't know. You know, so, yeah. yeah. I'm just saying like, that's how I'm thinking in my own head. Like,

Christian Brim (21:47.039)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (21:53.906)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (21:59.092)
Right, right.

Christian Brim (22:03.408)
No, I absolutely think it does. Absolutely.

Cameron (22:09.1)
Instead of getting out of this, like, yeah, I can make pretty things and make them look awesome. You know, which is kind of like how I used to talk because I was talking to other producers and other movie, you know, other video people. Yeah, I can. I'll make it look awesome, man. You know, we'll make it look great. Whereas now I'm like, but they don't necessarily care. And also we're in a world now where making things look awesome is not is not the end goal because lots of things look awesome and we've become sort of dull to it.

And what actually is going to be effective and what actually is going to move the needle when it comes to politics and, you know, in business too, like we just go the business route, like what kind of outcomes can I get you? So for this other one client I'm working for now, like how can we, you know, they, they're in such a small, just kind of like not, not politics as much, but this is this other client I'm working for, or we're trying to like, they only need their, their, their, their, a B2B client. They only need, you know,

10 to 20 contracts a year or whatever to sustain themselves. So they only need 10 or 20 people in there to influence 10 or 20 people decision makers. So how do we market in a way that I can equip their sales team or their CEO or whatever to make them look like the no brainer, know? So I'm not directly affecting a sale. I'm not getting somebody to go to a button and press buy. I'm saying, I'm building the trust that, know,

Christian Brim (23:11.487)
Right.

Christian Brim (23:17.033)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (23:26.26)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (23:36.67)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron (23:37.514)
so that whenever you get on the phone call with them, they'll, you won't have to ask as many questions. They won't have to, you know, the trust will already kind of be there, you know, at least, at least up to 50 % or whatever that is, arbitrary number in the buyer's own mind. So.

Christian Brim (23:52.564)
Mm-hmm

Christian Brim (23:57.857)
Okay, so that's a partial answer to my question. guess what I'm really asking is why did you make that shift from freelancer to business owner? What instigated that?

Cameron (24:17.794)
What instant you got that? okay. Okay. I can get a little deep with you if you want me to. So I am, I'm 42. I moved back to Louisiana in 2017. So about nine years ago. And the reason why we moved back is because my father passed away. So I was 33 years old and my father passed away. And I started as I started, you know, and that's when I kind of went full on freelance, like I'm working on my own.

Christian Brim (24:22.292)
Please do.

Christian Brim (24:25.898)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (24:36.019)
Hmm

Cameron (24:45.772)
I'm moving back to Louisiana, be closer to home, moved away from the East coast, came back over here. And then, you know, I got a few years into it and I was like, I'm almost 40. And my father passed away when he was 57. And I was like, I'm only like 15 years away from that. I got to figure something out. And plus, you know, there's this other side of me was like, what I'm doing or...

Christian Brim (25:01.664)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (25:05.962)
Right.

Cameron (25:13.634)
what I was doing at the time in my mid thirties. like, I can't see myself doing that at the age of 50. Like not that it's hard work, but that it's just like, you know, it's not like backbreaking hard labor, but it's like, don't know. I just feel like I needed to evolve. Right. So like, like what do I always want to be this sort of executioner until, you know, I'm can retire. And is that even realistic? Because

Christian Brim (25:20.384)
Mmm.

Christian Brim (25:29.877)
Yeah.

Cameron (25:43.319)
I mean, let's face it, when you get, when you're in the creative business, it can be a young person's game, you know, at least certain parts of it, right? Like the, so especially like the, creation, the, creative side, the execution side of things is usually a younger person's game. And as you get older, it's more strategy relationships, you know, boring business stuff. But I mean, it's just kind of the, the way it is. And I didn't just kind of felt like it was.

Christian Brim (25:48.32)
There'll be

Cameron (26:12.322)
the time to do that.

Christian Brim (26:14.848)
That's an interesting turn of phrase you used. Boring business stuff. Is that how you perceived it when you were in your 30s? Yeah.

Cameron (26:26.21)
That's how I perceived it. Probably in my twenties and thirties. Yeah. Like, you know, like I was, I grew up in the nineties, you know, was rock and roll, like screw the man suit and tie. No way. You know, like, you know, so, know, and I was very much like raising a blue carpet collar family. we're always like, you know, yuppies and you know, all this stuff. so, but

Christian Brim (26:39.487)
Right.

Christian Brim (26:49.459)
Right.

Cameron (26:53.902)
I've actually, I love it now. I'm highly more interested in the boring business stuff now than I am the creative stuff because creative stuff has become more like a second language to me. can do it in my sleep. Like I can run these programs like nothing. So I'm like, what, so the business side of things has become the new challenge. But to answer your question, yeah, in my twenties and thirties, that's, you know, early thirties is kind of how I saw it, right?

management's the evil person. But you know, now that I own my business, I know better now.

Christian Brim (27:26.612)
Yeah, I think a lot of creatives struggle with that.

marrying of creativity and profit and and you know Writing my book and interviewing and even reflecting myself It was there was some interesting insights that came from it and and and one of them and that's the subtitle of my book is, you redefining the creative money paradigm because I think Creatives start out in that space

Not everybody, but a lot of them think that creativity is like this pure art that somehow money sullies it, that it makes it not real. You said selling out to the man. mean, like that's a mindset that I think doesn't serve creatives long-term because if you want to sustain your craft, you have to make money at it.

If you want to do the things you're passionate about, you have to have a way to fund it. And that eventually leads you to where you are, which is, I got to do that boring business stuff.

Cameron (28:45.326)
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. And then, you know, I also have four kids. So like that kind of helps. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a little bit. Yeah. So, I mean, I still try to do passion projects. I don't do as many of these days as I did in my 20s and 30s. But, you know, I've actually grown to really like the commercial side of things. Right. So.

Christian Brim (28:51.636)
They run your life. don't know if you figured that out yet, but yes, kids run your life. Yes.

Christian Brim (29:11.007)
Hmm.

What I guess I guess that's really kind of the crux of my question is what changed for you like what what what I understand that that mindset changed but why what flipped the switch you said your father and and it was maybe kind of existential of like your own mortality of like is this what I want to be doing with the rest of my life.

Cameron (29:27.073)
huh.

Cameron (29:31.234)
Yeah.

Cameron (29:36.707)
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, to complete that thought, I think it was more legacy building, right? So it's like, what can I create? not to, not to necessarily leave something for my kids, right? Like, but if they wanted to find, but you know, to build a business as sort of an, as the sort of asset, right? Instead of just freelancer tree grows and tree dies, like

Christian Brim (29:42.4)
Mmm.

Christian Brim (30:00.992)
Mmm.

Right.

Cameron (30:04.546)
What can I grow? How can the tree keep going without me? Right. and that's obviously, I mean, gonna be a long, slow process, which is, I'm, I still battle with from time to time my own mind, like Cameron, you're only been doing this for a few years. It's okay. You know? but that's, that's the big dream idea is just kind of build this thing that goes beyond me, you know, a little bit. but like I said,

Christian Brim (30:08.095)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (30:16.618)
Sure.

Cameron (30:32.526)
or there's two coins of the two sides of that. And I'll just kind of, I'll kind of let life take me whatever direction it takes me. I'm letting that part go. But the idea is either build something like that or make enough money to where like if I am in my fifties, 55 or whatever, I can just shut the whole thing off and not have to sweat any money for the rest of my life. You know what I mean? Or whatever that, whatever that number is like.

Christian Brim (30:56.124)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cameron (31:01.356)
I'll just know and be like, I can either keep this going because it's really fun or not, you know, and just chill.

Christian Brim (31:09.648)
I had a guest on recently who does see if I define it correctly heritage and legacy documentaries and He was talking about legacy had a hit a fascinating story It actually gave me chills when he told me about like what what got him to that point? but the the definition of legacy and what that really

is, at least from his perspective, was not the traditional things that we think of, like a financial legacy or even a name legacy. Because the reality is three generations from now, even in your own family, no one is going to know who you are. And they even if they do know your name, they don't know anything about you.

that legacy to him was ultimately how we impact others. And how I would tie that in, because I agree with that. I agree. Ultimately, I think that is our legacy, that that's the eternal legacy, if you will, is what impact we've made on others. But from a business standpoint,

I think the way I marry those two thoughts is how the business can allow you to impact more people or people more impactfully or more effectively. What are your thoughts on that?

Cameron (32:58.03)
Yeah, I I agree. I'm trying to think and you have to forgive my sort of, what do call it? Just my train of thought can sort of go everywhere. Yeah, yeah, right. Especially these days, right? So I'm like, oh yeah, he did ask that. I forgot. Yeah, okay. Let me come back around to that. But, you know, and I actually just wrote this down in my journal this morning.

Christian Brim (33:12.976)
dude, we're all neurodivergent in the entrepreneur comm yeah, no, we understand.

Cameron (33:26.912)
It was to like, you know, I would like to get to a point where I make enough money yearly where like, would be no problem to give away half of it. Is that, is that, you know what I mean? Like, cause that's kind of like, I've always had that sort of dream in my sort of spirit. was even when I was my 20th, when I first started making decent money and I first started like giving to my church and all this stuff. I'm like,

Christian Brim (33:37.874)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron (33:54.681)
What, how cool would it be to get to a point where, you know, I could just do that. Cause I think I have been sort of blessed, especially as a creative to make pretty good money. Like, and then be able to like write a, you know, a pretty good check at the end of the year for a certain cause without even hesitating and like being able to save and stuff like that. Cause we, we've done things in our lives to eliminate debt and to do all this sort of

Christian Brim (34:06.804)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (34:16.778)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Cameron (34:24.526)
you know, write things financially. Um, so what does that look like? And then the last few years I've kind of been in a sort of, um, especially like when I told myself I was going to build this business up and we had a couple more kids. So I've kind of a little bit been more in a scarcity mindset when it comes to, to, to money. Uh, I know it's not necessarily always healthy, but part of me is like, all right, I got to, know, hang onto this just during this season. But I do want to get back to that point again, where like,

Christian Brim (34:43.744)
Mmm.

Cameron (34:53.934)
We can give more freely and have that, um, have that just have that. mean, it's just cool. You know, it's cool to be able to like, just like give away things and, and, and have that sort of light in spirit when it comes to money. Right. So, um, yeah, so that was sort of the one thing that I just wrote. I'd wrote that down this just as a morning. So I think that I had to remind myself that that is probably the, the, the bigger goal, right. The business is great. And, but

What is it actually fueling is fueling, you know, first of all, a lifestyle that I mean, it's already fueling a good lifestyle. Like I don't work that much, you know, compared to a lot of people who make as much as I do. I don't stress, you know, I to go to an office. This is my office. It's it's at my house. I get to see my kids all throughout the day. It's it's it's great. But at what point, you know,

I'm still figuring that out and I'm still young enough, will that be, I forgot where I was going with that, but essentially like, well, the ultimate goal being like, all right, we've built up what we need to build up for us. Let's start giving the rest away. And that is the most, the more legacy and impact stuff is the ultimate goal.

Christian Brim (36:16.35)
Yeah, two thoughts came to mind as you were saying that one is I think as Christians, I'm assuming you're maybe just speaking for myself, but for Christians, there is a strange paradigm that I think is more tradition than scripture about money, where, you know, greed is frowned upon.

And, so like, it's easy for a creative entrepreneur who has that belief to look at profit in a negative way. but Jesus famously said, it is the love of money that is the root of all sorts of evil. is not money itself. And I think that's an important distinction because what, what do you put your faith in? Do you put your faith in the money?

Cameron (37:03.982)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (37:16.352)
Or do you put your faith in God that provides the money? the second thing is so, that struggle is real and I, I've struggled with it myself. The second thing was one, one of my colleagues, who is, is also, a disciple said, God had told him, I've only given you.

I've given you all the money you can handle.

And I think that's also an interesting thought because I think, you know, money, I think this is true as a spiritual truth and a secular truth that money just amplifies your personality, amplifies the characteristics that are already there.

And so an example would be a lottery winner does not stay wealthy because they have a poor mindset, right? They don't change because they got a lump sum of money, right? Or you see these people that are really rich and they're assholes. Well, they were always an asshole. The money just allowed that to come out more, right?

Is is this idea that you know potentially god does keep us from being more wealthy because we aren't able to handle it and Because of who we are right like if we had more money we'd not use it correctly Not that god doesn't want us to be prosperous It's it's it's more about our character Do you have any thoughts on that

Cameron (39:07.182)
Yeah, no, yeah, that's a, that's a, yeah.

Cameron (39:22.478)
see that for sure. mean, I agree with it. Yeah. And it's interesting and think about it in terms of sort of my sort of area or my own life, right? And yeah, I mean, you're making me reflect right now in my own way about that. So it's a strange tension, you know what I mean? Because like,

Christian Brim (39:35.231)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (39:48.288)
Yes, no it is.

Cameron (39:49.903)
Because the desire is there right? So there's this desire to get bigger and you know, you know and I say oh You know we can make Promises, you know to ourselves and to God like oh wait, if you give me more money I'm gonna I'll give it all away, right? I'll give it all away And then as soon as you get that money you figure out how to spend it or you figure out, you know Lifestyle inflation or whatever that looks like for you, right? Yeah

Christian Brim (40:09.952)
Mmm.

Christian Brim (40:13.993)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron (40:16.68)
It's a strange thing. Okay, we're getting a little like woo-woo here, but like because it's funny because last year I didn't make as was probably my last year was probably my I Wouldn't say I think it was it worst year. I mean, it still a good year It was still I mean by some other people's standards. It was still a decent year But it was probably like as far as like what I made it was probably my lowest year since I went on my own But the year before that was the best year

Christian Brim (40:41.63)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (40:46.559)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron (40:46.668)
I've ever done. So, and from like the best year to the worst year, and this year is already on par to being sort of a pretty good year, better than last year. So that's nice, because it's an on year, right? But it is interesting that, you know, I have found myself the last couple of years being a little bit more...

Christian Brim (40:58.622)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Cameron (41:09.358)
I wouldn't say stupid with money, just Definitely a lot more was it was I'm trying to think of the world

liberal with money, I guess, you know, like, yeah, sure, you know, and then but then I found myself after last year, I at the numbers, I said, I need to tighten up. And now that I've tightened up, more money's coming in. It's like, now that I'm being more responsible. It's like God saying, here's some here's some here's things you can handle. I don't know what to say. I don't know. I can draw conclusions all day long. Right. But and just but I'm just kind of trusting.

Christian Brim (41:21.024)
Okay.

Christian Brim (41:29.951)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (41:36.989)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (41:43.146)
Yeah.

Cameron (41:50.639)
You know, it's, it's, I don't know. I mean, it's a lot, it's a little bit of faith and it's, that tension for sure. But I, I, I usually what happens is I, as a human, tend to forget this. If I'm on top of my game, like as far as like doing the things I need to be done, that I've been entrusted with doing a good job, managing my money, um, taking care of myself, taking care of my family and stick to those sort of basic things and doing well at them and not just.

skimming by them being intentional with them. The other stuff just just happened. It just seems to come easier. And when I don't, if I go off the rails, if I'm like, you know, not taking care of myself, not looking at my budget, you know, just going out and spending things. And that's whenever those things don't come as easily or I get fearful. And then like, I'm not making as much money. And so anyway, that's kind of

Christian Brim (42:28.277)
Ciao!

Christian Brim (42:42.909)
Mm-hmm

Christian Brim (42:48.412)
No, that no at 100 % no that that really resonates with me and and one of the things that I've I've had to ask myself, you know, I've been doing this for 29 years of like, why do you why do you want to grow? Like what what's the intent behind it? And if it is just to me, I've always said to myself, well, it's not about the money. That's just the scorecard.

Cameron (42:48.716)
What are they? Is that track? mean, does that make sense?

Christian Brim (43:18.238)
Right. That's the way entrepreneurs keep score is, is dollars. But, you know, really sitting with the, question of like, what would that mean? Like what, know, you go back to the lottery winner. If, if you won the lottery and had $50 million, what would change? And, being real clear on that, I think helps me align that.

Cameron (43:40.206)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (43:48.289)
and get clear with it because I can say, well, nothing would change. Like, you know, I'd still do what I do, but is that true? I don't know. I don't know.

Cameron (44:03.33)
Yeah, yeah, to me, it just kind of just would depend on the amount, I guess, you know.

Christian Brim (44:10.634)
Let's say $50 million. That's a substantial sum to most everybody. That's the reflective question we'll leave the audience with. What would you do differently? Would you be any different?

Cameron (44:32.962)
would I don't know if I would be any different, but I definitely would do differently. We live a little bit more sort of baggering about me. We live out in the middle of nowhere, like not middle nowhere. We live out in the country. We have a five acres to a lot of people it is the middle of nowhere, but we have neighbors and stuff. It's not like that kind of middle nowhere. yeah. yeah. And you could be buried in no way to refine you. Yeah, there's definitely places like that.

Christian Brim (44:37.248)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (44:54.088)
I've been to nowhere Louisiana and there are places where there is nothing, yes.

Tie your ass to a tree stump and the gators will do the rest.

Cameron (45:02.734)
Yes, exactly. So I would...

I would probably not be doing what I'm doing. If I had this much money, probably not be doing what I'm doing right now. Career wise. just cause I like what I do and I'm fortunate enough to what I do. but I don't think I would want to do it anymore. Just because.

Christian Brim (45:20.608)
Okay.

Christian Brim (45:34.12)
Mm-hmm. No, that's completely fair.

Cameron (45:38.499)
Cause like, I mean, right now I'm kind of just in it, for the provision of it, right? I'm, I'm good at it. Just like, you know, people who do other, like, you know, I don't know. I don't have any good examples, but you know, a follower or yeah, or somebody else, like you just, you get, you do it for long enough and you just get really good at it and you just, it's, it's a living and I'm glad I get to do it. But at end of the day, like if I.

Christian Brim (45:44.832)
Fair enough. Yeah.

Christian Brim (45:52.732)
A plumber. mean, yeah, yeah.

Cameron (46:06.382)
someone provided me something else that gave me all my needs and stuff. I'd probably, you I'd be okay with that. Um, you know, so like I said, I don't know if I would be a different person, but I definitely do some different things. I'd stick, you know, probably 10 of that in, in some IRA and just live off that the rest of my life. And then, um, you know, do whatever else with the other things. And, know, whether that's send my kids through college or

or give it away like I mentioned earlier or whatever, just kind of figure that out. yeah, I'd probably just put just enough in there for us to live comfortably and then the rest would go wherever else it needed to go. So yeah.

Christian Brim (46:50.304)
Yeah, it's an interesting reflective question because it does. I mean, if you really sit with it for a second, because to me, you can also transition that question into. Well, what's keeping you from having $50 million? Like if, this is truly what you would do, if this were your highest and best purpose, why haven't you made that happen?

Cameron (46:53.335)
Uh-huh.

Christian Brim (47:18.216)
Not to say that you should, it's just an interesting flip of the question from a reflective standpoint. And I think it helps you get in line with what we discussed of like, what is the role of money in your life?

Cameron (47:34.575)
Yeah, no, I agree. And, yeah, it's just, yeah. Why aren't you doing like the question is like, why aren't you doing that now or whatever? So, that, and that was kind of the reason for starting sort of the business side instead of there's the freelancing. Right. So, I can make, you know, what I could have charged, you know, an hourly rate or a day rate four years ago, I can charge a project rate or fee and make

Christian Brim (47:44.682)
Right.

Christian Brim (48:01.651)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron (48:04.034)
five or 10 times more just by repositioning that. Yeah. So, yeah.

Christian Brim (48:05.311)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (48:12.12)
Well, once you figure it out and make that 50 million, we'll have you back on the show and you can tell us the story. In the meantime, how do people find out more about Cameron King and King's Co-Lab?

Cameron (48:17.378)
Ha

Cameron (48:20.846)
Mm-hmm.

Cameron (48:26.83)
You can go to kingscollab.com. I'm also on LinkedIn, just at camthemanking. I'm not quite as active as I used to be on those platforms, but I'm also pretty easy to get a hold of. If you didn't shoot me an email cam at kingscollab.com. Yeah. So I'm generally, I like meeting people and stuff that I'm very much a relationship based type person. Try to live in that realm as much as possible.

Christian Brim (48:57.056)
Perfect. Listeners will have those links in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, hit that little message button, shoot us a text and tell us what you'd like to hear and I'll get rid of Cameron. Until next time, ta ta for now.

Cameron (48:58.146)
Mm-hmm.