Forced to Let Go: The Leadership Turn No One Plans For

What does it actually take to let go — not because you're wise enough, but because your back gave out and you had no other choice?

Entrepreneur and business coach Chris Shurian started his first company the hard way: handling every nail, every conversation, every quality check himself. Then he herniated a disc playing softball. Two weeks flat on his back, no cell phones, and two employees who turned out to be better carpenters than he was. That injury became a turning point — and the start of a career built on a deceptively simple principle: trust your team, hold the guardrails, and get out of the way.

In this conversation, Chris and Lauri explore the moment control becomes the enemy of growth, what it means to lead from vision instead of micromanagement, and why the best leaders he's ever known were "dealers of hope" — making people feel capable before they believed it themselves. Chris also shares the barefoot principle, why he handed his 12-year-old the keys of a stick shift, and what his platform Bootstraps & Battle Scars is all about.

If you feel like you might need to wrestle something real from your own hands to become the leader you’re meant to be — this one's for you.

TAKEAWAYS

1. The most transformational leadership moments are often forced, not chosen — injury, crisis, and necessity can be faster teachers than any book.

2. Letting go of control doesn't mean dropping standards. It requires trust. Trust in those standards, trust in ourselves, and trust in others. 

3. The guardrail model: define the vision, set non-negotiables, then give people the freedom to deliver within them. 

4. Leaders who magnetize great people embody their values clearly — the wrong fits weed themselves out; the right ones rise.

5.  "Leaders are dealers of hope" — the leaders who changed Chris most made him feel like the best version of himself before he'd earned it.

6. Battle scars aren't failures to hide — they're the curriculum. You build something real from bootstraps and battle scars, not from perfect conditions.

7. Untamed leadership means trusting people to find their own way to the destination — not micromanaging the route they take to get there.

About Chris

Chris Shurian is an entrepreneur, business coach, and founder of Bootstraps & Battle Scars and Founders Exchange. After building a construction company from a truck and

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Transcript

Welcome And Meet Chris Shurian

Lauri 0:32

Hello and welcome back to Untamed Leader. My guest today is Chris Shurian. He is an entrepreneur, business coach, and founder of Bootstraps and Battle Scars and Founders Exchange. Welcome, Chris.

Chris 0:46

Thanks, Lori. It's great to be here. I'm looking forward to this actually.

Lauri 0:50

Me too. I am really looking forward to wherever this conversation goes today. I would love to dive in and ask you where did your leadership journey first begin?

The Injury That Changed Everything — Forced to Let Go

Chris 1:05

Oh man. You know, I've had some pretty awesome mentors in my life, um, leaders who uh I either worked for or worked with, people I just admired. And I, and that was probably, you know, as far back as when I was 21 years old. Uh I was serving as a missionary for my church in Brazil of all places. And uh the leader of our mission was a fellow from from uh Brazil. And uh and I'll tell you what, he had a uh an amazing impact on my life, and I've always looked up to him as a great leader. Um, I always liked how I felt when I was around him and how he made me feel like I could do anything. And that and that started something in me. And um, and I've always paid close attention to people like that in my life, and I've always and I've tried to emulate them over the years. Um, and there's been many, there's been many, but I but really uh thinking back to uh Antonio Jose Mendonza from Rio de Janeiro, what a great man he was, and and how uh what a great example he was to me as a great leader, and I've and and and I've I learned a lot from him.

Lauri 2:15

Hmm, fantastic. And I I jotted down something about the letting go moment that was a turning point for you. Can you tell us a little about that?

Chris 2:29

Um well, you know, Lori, um we're talking about leadership, right? We're talking about leadership. And um there was a point in my early in my business career when I when I really just started my first company and uh I was in construction. Uh I specialized in re remodeling and I was young, and and you know, back then I did all the work myself. You know, I had my truck and my tools and had great customers, and and I really uh I really strived to provide this great customer experience that most people in the construction industry just don't understand. I mean, contractors have a bad reputation, let's just face it, right?

Lauri 3:12

I I can I can feel so we're about to redo our cabin. I can feel my husband going, why doesn't he live here? No. Um I really admire you for for the intention to create a great customer journey.

What It Actually Felt Like to Lose Control

Chris 3:30

Yeah, and and I'll tell you, when I when I went in, when I decided to start that business, I really felt like if I could bring a level of professionalism into the construction world, I might have something, you know. But I was young and uh, you know, I was a control freak. I totally just controlled everything because I felt like that's the only way I could really guarantee that my customers would have this great experience. I mean, I I was at a point where you know they would invite me to their weddings, their kids' weddings, and they'd have family functions and they'd refer me to their neighbors because I really did it, I did a great job and I and I and I had a great relationship with my customers. Um but a couple years into it, I um I actually had two employees uh working for me, and and it was just me and them. I mean, we did everything together. We went to every job together. Um, you know, we did everything so I could still control that whole experience. And uh and there was a point when um I was playing softball, City League softball. You know, this is important stuff, super highly competitive, uh, you know, Olympic type level stuff. And I hurt my back. I I did something weird and I threw my back out. And I mean, I really I hernated a disc in my lower back, um, and it knocked me out. It put me down. I couldn't, I couldn't get out of bed, um, couldn't move. I mean, I couldn't even budge. I mean, even breathing hurt. And so uh fortunately I had these two young fellows working for me. I was a I was a young fella, but apparently they were a little bit younger. And uh, and I had to just let them do the work. I I couldn't, I didn't have a choice. And it and this lasted for probably two weeks before I could actually get up and go to the job site and visit. And when I finally did that, I realized that these two guys were actually better carpenters than I was. Um, you know, who admits that, right? And they actually had seen how we took care with how we took care of our customers and and they did it. I mean, they were they had great personality, they were good guys, and and that's probably why I hired them, anyways. But I I had this moment where I was kind of I was forced to really let go and let them do. And uh that was a moment that just completely changed my whole perspective on how this construction thing or how the whole company could be run. Um in fact, it happened that um I was still I was still hurt, I still couldn't work, but they were doing the work, and then I I had the opportunity to spend more time looking for new jobs and new projects. And the next thing you know it, we were so busy that um, you know, I had I had Clark on one job and I had Jason on another job, and I was running around in between supporting them and bringing in new work. And uh, and and and literally that was this that was a turning point. I mean, I went from the three of us to, you know, within seven or eight years, we had 50 employees, we had um we had huge jobs going on. We had I went from I remember the first time I broke a million dollars in gross revenue. I mean, that was quite a deal back in the day. And uh, and that happened because I was able to, I was forced to let go and let those two guys do the work. And then I just my job was to support them and get them more work and get them more work, and then I had to hire more people. And uh, and and so that was a that was a turning point for me that I, you know, I don't know if that would have happened. It may, you know, maybe it would have happened, you know. Maybe I I was reading lots of books, I was studying lots of leaders and and learning about how to run a business. Um, but it's it's hard to let go, you know, it's hard to let go. And and that moment uh was a huge turning point for me.

Lauri 6:52

Yeah. What was it like for you? Because looking back, it almost sounds easy, like, oh, you hurt your back and you let go. And having possibly been a recovering control freak myself, I know it's it's often not actually that easy, even when it feels like there's almost no other choice. I mean, you could have said, I'm gonna shut the whole thing down because these two can't do it. That could have been a choice. What was it like for you when you were in pain and bedridden and you let go at the beginning of the letting go?

Chris 7:31

Well, um, here and here's a little um a little uh uh backstory, but you know, this is back when we didn't have cell phones, Lori. I mean, everything happened on your landline, so um, it wasn't like I could even just check in and call them or they couldn't call me and ask questions. So it was a little bit unnerving. Now, probably for the first half of that two weeks, I was probably just drugged up so bad out of my mind that I didn't, I just I had no worry in the world, right? Um but yeah, I you know, for me, just shutting it down was never an option because that would have hurt my customers. And my customers, one of the one of the things we really prided ourselves on was staying on schedule. You know, when I gave a customer a schedule and said, you know, we're gonna have your project done by a certain day, I mean that that meant something to me. And I and I did everything I could to make that happen, even if it meant working late, but we did it. And um, so yeah, shutting it down just wasn't an option. I had to perform. And not only did we have jobs that had to get done, but we had other jobs lined up because also along the lines of keeping that schedule, if I made a commitment to be at somebody's house to start a job, you know, that was important. Like, you know, you can imagine, right? We were doing lots of kitchen remodels. Well, I'm asking someone to, you know, spend all weekend moving out of their kitchen, like their food. We'd set up a temporary kitchen in their garage because we would gut that kitchen, it would be empty. And so, you know, I can you can imagine what a huge inconvenience that would be for this dream of having this beautiful new kitchen. Well, boy, when I said I'll have it done, I'm gonna start on Monday and I'll have it done in two weeks or three weeks or whatever it was. You know, that was that was important. And so um, so yeah, for me, it was just, you know, I'm not sure I completely answered your question, but I I don't even know if there was another option. I don't know if I even thought there's only there's no other way to do it. I just hoped that these guys would step up and get it done. And man, did they they did?

The Barefoot Principle — Non-Negotiables Without Micromanaging

Lauri 9:22

They didn't. Yeah, it sounds like there was no other option for you because serving was the number one thing. Keeping the commitments that you had and giving them you know, the home is gonna be disrupted, but being the least disruptive you could be to their lives while making their dream kitchen or their dream whatever come true was more important so that it felt like, well, in order to do that, the only option left at this point is I gotta let go and let the other two people do it.

Chris 10:01

That's right. And I and I'm pretty sure that um, you know, this is a long time ago. I imagine they probably came to my house every morning because we we worked out of my garage. I mean, when you're starting off, you work out of your pickup truck in your garage. So uh I imagine they came to my house in the morning and we and they'd come into my bedroom where I was laying in the bed and they and we'd map out the day and they would tell me what they had figured out and what they didn't have figured out. And we also had great subcontractors, you know, our plumbers, our electricians, all the guys that had to do their job, they were they were equally, equally as awesome that they would show up when you know they said they would show up. And when I put together a schedule, they had confidence in my schedule that the guy before them got their job done and that when they showed up, the job was ready for them. So that whole package just worked. Um, and I and I was able to scale it. And I think even when we grew and got bigger and had more people and more moving parts, um, I still was very fortunate to have great people working for me who could see that vision, who understood what we were trying to accomplish. You know, occasionally someone would show up and didn't want to play along. They wanted to be just a typical contractor and leave a mess or not on time, but those guys didn't last long. They knew that if they wanted to work for us, they had to do it the way we do it. And uh, and and that was a non-negotiable for us. Um you know, we started off doing remodels. I mean, I always stuck to remodels no matter how big I got, no matter how big of homes we were building, or or or what it was, we always stuck to those remodels because that was kind of you know, that was my starting point. And I and there weren't a lot of people like me that would do that. So yeah, so it really worked out great. And it all started with my, I guess would have been my vision in the very beginning of providing this professional experience that's not normally seen in the construction industry. And everyone knew that's how I wanted to do things. You know, everyone, every subcontractor, every supplier, anyone that touched that job knew that this is how we did things here, and you either need to show up and do it or you weren't gonna be invited back.

Vision, Guardrails, and Getting Out of the Way

Lauri 12:02

Yeah, yeah. Uh the group tends to follow the personality of the leader. And the vision that you had and the non-negotiables were so strong that it sounds like a lot of people weeded themselves out. If they just wanted to show up and leave a mess, and that's not how you did it, they would just not come back, do another job with you.

Chris 13:24

Oh, yeah.

Lauri 13:25

Because that's not how they wanted to do it.

Chris 13:27

Yeah.

Lauri 13:28

And you also started to magnetize a lot of people who held the same values and the same care and the same integrity as you had.

Chris 13:39

Yeah, and then because there are people out there that want to do that kind of work, right? They want to, they want to do that, they want to do do their best, they want to uh they want to act that way. But and to work for a contractor that firmly believed in that was refreshing for a lot of these guys. We're still friends. I still bump into these guys. Um, I've watched them grow their business. I've watched some of them have, I mean, huge success. I've I I have a few of my younger trades who are now, you know, I mean, they're doing what's what's 500 million more than like, you know, five, that's I mean, hundred times more than the amount of business I did. And it's funny because we'll go to lunch and they'll say, Chris, we learned this from you. We learned how to take care of the customer, we learned how to clean up after ourselves, we learned how to, you know, be professional, and we were able to grow our business, and they're having great success.

Lauri 14:30

That that brings me to the question ringing in my mind. Once you let go and you became or started to become the leader that you could be, what do you notice that you had in common with the first leader that you admired so much?

Chris 14:47

Oh boy. Well, okay. Um my mind immediately goes to even though I was kind of forced to let go and let them do their job, I still had a tendency to be a little bit of a micromanager. Um, I still had this little tendency of, well, you guys need to do it this way because that's how I do it. And and there was another aha moment where actually one of my superintendents, one of my lead guys, one of those two, I think it was Jason, uh sat down with me and said, Hey, Chris, listen, you know, we I know what I'm doing. I know how to build, I know how to be a great carpenter. Um, I might do it a little different than you, but I'm still gonna get the same result, and it's still gonna turn out great. And that was a that was a that was a little, and and I I'm saying it was a calm conversation, but at the time it was probably a little heated, you know, because I probably came in and said, you know, that's not how you're supposed to hold a hammer. You know, this is something as simple as that. Um but it was a it was a conversation we had where he he put me on my heels a little bit and I had to step back, and that was another aha moment where it was like, okay, um, he knows what the vision is, he knows the budget, he knows the schedule, he knows the quality, and he's gonna get there in his way. And it may not be the exact same way I would do it, but the end result was the same. So um that that reminded me of one of my other leaders who um, you know, he was training me in sales, and we were selling a product that was a little complicated, and I'd always go to him and ask questions and ask questions and ask questions. Well, he was the guy that would look at me and say, I don't know. Why don't you go find the answer? And and I and it frustrated me because I just wanted him to tell me. But instead, I we had this binder that was about this thick, full of information about what we were selling, and I had to go dig through there and read it myself, right? And um, and and that was a great learning experience because, you know, yeah, he could have just given me the answer. He knew the answer, he knew all the answers, but he felt like I wouldn't have really learned the answer unless I went searching for it and digging through that dang binder uh to find the answer. And so that was a that was a moment where I sat back and went, oh, maybe that's what he was trying to teach me. That, you know, I need to learn how to do this on my own. And I knew what the result had to be, but I had to go find the answer for myself. And we all do things a little differently. You know, we all do things a little differently. And so um that was a that was a moment where I tied that back to what what Dick Winder was his name, Dick Winder, an amazing man, great, great example, great mentor, but that was a lesson he taught me too. So, you know, not only did I learn how to let go, but I also had to learn how to just, you know, let them do what they do and do what they're good at, as long as we got the result, then we were all happy.

Dealers of Hope: The Leadership Trait That Actually Moves People

Lauri 17:33

Yeah. And I'm hearing in in what you're saying, because I have three things that I think make up their kind of my non-negotiables for a good leader. A leader needs to have a vision for something in the world or their world to be different in some way. And I hear it in your story as clear as day. There was a way people did construction industry that wasn't good enough. So you had a vision of how it could be done, how it could have integrity, good, solid work, cleaning up after yourself. And you started a company and you started doing it the way you believed it should be done instead of the way everybody else was doing it. You had a vision. And then we need to be able to navigate from the present moment toward that vision becoming real. And then in your story, I hear, you know, navigate again and choose again and back because you had it, you were doing it yourself, and then you injured your back. And you had to make choices to let go. And then you've done that, and you have one of them coming to you and saying, Hey, back off. I know how to do things, I do them differently than you. And you make the choice in that moment that the vision and all of the values being honored is more important than you micromanaging how someone holds a hammer. And then the final piece is being able to communicate the vision in a way that actually calls other people forth to want to join you on the journey to making it real. And you had that, the right people. So there are some people who just the values are not aligned, they're not there yet, they're gonna weed themselves out and not work for your company. I am curious, as you went and learned, what how would you describe being a leader? Like what's really important to you?

Theater, Teaching & Trusting People Before They Believe It Themselves

Chris 19:38

Um you know that that's a that's a that's a really big question, Lori, because uh I have, you know, when I when I started off on my journey of being a business owner, and I was I was forced into this idea that I needed to be the leader and not so much the doer. Um I you know, I started reading books. I started reading tons of books and autobiographies about great business leaders to try and figure out what their secret sauce was. And um, and every time I'd pick up a book, I would read something a little bit different. And I and I realized that all these great leaders had different personalities. And and they led, they they kind of led differently. But as I was reading all these books, I would identify these principles that they all taught, no matter how they did it. Like, you know, one guy was more of an authoritarian authoritarian kind of leader, but there were certain principles that he that he uh what's the word I'm looking for that he that he put out there or uh that he stood for? That he stood for or that he taught his people, right? And um, and so years ago I I wrote this little outline of what I thought a great leader was, and and I'm now taking that information, I'm taking that and I'm turning it into a book of sorts. And um because I wanted to try and figure out how I can take that, take what I learned and share that with other people. And so um so there's a quote I came across several years ago that really hit the nail on the head. And the quote is uh trust your teams while providing guardrails that provides them the flexibility to deliver defined results. Okay, now that quote just hit home to me. And I think as long as you're a great leader and you can provide these guardrails, like for example, you know, the job site's clean every day. We had this thing called the barefoot principle, where you know, if someone comes home at the end of the day, we've cleaned up the job site and we've left. Well, I wanted them to be able to walk out into the job site barefoot and be able to walk through the job site barefoot and not worry about stepping on nails or or tripping on extension cords back when we had extension cords. Um so it was it was the barefoot principle where and everyone knew that was our our idea, our trades, our subs, everyone knew that they had to clean up that job site well enough that that owner could walk out there and barefoot to inspect what happened that day. And and so those are guardrails, right? Um, so we we did a pretty good job of creating these guardrails that we wanted people to work within, um, but we gave them flexibility to deliver defined results, which was a really great kitchen remodel. Everything's done right, the quality work machine is great, the the products were quality. Um and so for me, I think a great leader helps provide that direction, provides a very, very structured guardrails on this is what the expectation is, this is how we do it here, and this is what it needs to look like. And um, and so that's one area of of being a great leader that I think is very important is that they're able to portray that. They can share their vision, they can share the idea of what they're trying to get at, and then they can give their people the ability to get there. And then another trait that I think is really awesome, I think it was um uh oh man, what's his name? Maxwell. Um, John Maxwell. A little quote that said, you know, leaders are dealers of hope. And um, you know, we talked about my my leader in Brazil, and I'll tell you what, whenever I walked into his office and we had a conversation, that guy made me feel like I was the best, you know, employee ever had. I mean, you know, he he Made me feel like I was number one and I'd walk out of that office with a resolve to go be number one. And he and he made me feel like I was just the best. And um and I think it's important for leaders to help their teams feel like they're the best. You know, encourage them, uh, give them hope, make them feel good about themselves. You know, if you have a if you have a uh an employee that's performing here and you want them to perform up here, well, then you treat them like they're performing up here because they'll rise to the occasion. And uh that's an important trait uh for a lot of leaders to remember that. You know, instead of instead of always walking around finding what they're doing wrong, you know, spend some time catching them, doing things right, and let them let them know what they're doing is right and let them know they're doing a great job and let them feel good about it. Now, you know, there's times you have to help and you have to coach and you have to encourage them and inspire them, but but yeah, make them feel good about themselves and people will follow that.

Lauri 24:24

Yeah, you're making me think of a couple of key moments decades ago when I was teaching theater. One, I had someone who was kind of a a TA, and she was so passionate about theater, and the class that I was actually teaching was not for people who had chosen theater as a major. It was the like, this is the fun continuing education class. And her passion was getting channeled into assuming that people would not take it seriously, and it was almost like berating them for something that hadn't happened yet on day one. And I could see it was coming from her passion. And I went and I just kind of talked to her about like, hey, can we turn that into the these are amateurs, which means love? That's the root of the word love. And can we take that passion that you have and channel it through a message that's more focused on the love that you all have in common for the theater and focus on assuming that they are gonna show up with the dedication that you're talking about rather than berating them? I don't think I actually used that word. And she got it instantly and completely switched, and it changed the vibe in the class because it was more of a feeling of hope instead of like, here's how you're not gonna live up to our expectations of you.

Chris 25:59

Right.

Lauri 26:00

And oh, I can't remember. There was another one, but it's gone. So that must have been where we were supposed to go on the topic of noticing. Oh, I remember. Um I taught a college class on a high school campus and was doing everything at the time, including things that like I wish I had never tried, to get people in East Palo Alto, California to do their homework. And in one of the classes, we had them all direct scenes, and some people were directing, some people act were acting, some people were the stage manager, some people were designing the sets to put on a play or put on a collection of scenes. And I realized that they weren't really fully showing up, and the only thing I could think of that I hadn't really tried yet was basically like, I'm gonna remind you that there will be an audience here watching in two days, and the ball's in your court, and I'm over here in the corner if you need me. And I thought this is gonna be a disaster, like this may be a disaster, and I and there was a little bit of we know what you're capable of, and it is more than you've been giving. I know you can do it, and you have not been living up to what we know you can do. I'm over here in the corner if you need me. And it started getting pretty darn exciting, and they would come over to me when they needed me, and some of them were the responsibility of like the balls in your court, and they're just off creating magic. And on the day of the performance, I show up 45 minutes before class to open the door, and they're already in there. They've proactively gotten someone else to open the door so that they can have more time to get ready for this thing, with a few people who just didn't show up for the final. Very similar to your journey with some people just don't fit this, so they're gonna weed themselves out. Some people just chose to fail the final because the vibe was getting so high in the room. And something about what you just said sparked that memory for me. And they were less than 18 years old, and they still were able to rise to kind of the combination of the bar is here, but you're so close. And it's gonna take you to get the rest of the way.

Chris 29:59

Yeah, yeah, I think that's great. And and and it probably to see a bunch of 18-year-olds do that was probably a little shocking.

Lauri 30:07

Yeah, I mean, uh 15 to 18 years old. Yeah. Shocking. And there's something in that for our culture of like the kids under 18, kids are showing us the answers sometimes about what might make the world a better place. This is not totally my zone of genius. And I feel like if I could go back and have a videotape of that entire class and what they were showing us, that shocks us that we might be assuming the answers that might help our world, or some of the answers that would help our world, were in that classroom.

Chris 30:49

Yeah, yeah, that's true. And I, you know, you you were you were sharing that story, and I was thinking about, you know, when I was an 18-year-old, and uh, you know, I grew up kind of a kind of an only child, uh, sort of, uh just my dad and I living in Montana. And and I was pretty, I was pretty much on my own. You know, I just did things, I just figured them out. And uh, and because my dad was busy doing his thing and and I was doing my own thing, and if I wanted something in my life, I had to go get it. And so um it's funny because now I look back at my kids or you know, other youth that I might work with, and and I look at them, and and my first my first impression is they could never do that. They can't figure that out. But then I think back to how I was when I was 17 or 18 years old. So my kids, you know, when I taught my kids how to drive, you know, this is my philosophy. You know, I would show them the basics, I'd drop them off in a parking lot and say, I'll see you when we get home, right? Because they don't need me sitting there next to them, you know, barking orders and being afraid to die. You know, they're old and they're gonna figure it out. I mean, I dropped them off the stick shift in the middle of a parking lot, of course, when there's no school, there's the park lots empty. But it's like even when they're, you know, this sounds terrible, but my kids were 12 years old when I taught them how to drive because I was 10 when my dad handed me the keys of this old beat-up Jeep and said, Well, this is how it works, and uh, good luck. And and so that philosophy I've used in my life, and it it usually pays off. Kids are pretty smart. You just gotta give them a chance, hand them the keys of the car, and say, Okay, this is what you're gonna do, this is how it's gonna work, drive around circles for a little while, practice backing up, practice, you know, doing your thing, and then I'll see you at home. And some parents think I was complete crazy for doing that, but all my kids drive a stick shift and they're pretty good drivers, you know. And I didn't get any, I got plenty of gray hair, and none of it was from sitting in the passenger seat while they're you know gonna drive me off a cliff, which they never my parents went a different direction with that.

What "Untamed" Sparks in Chris — The Wild West & the Guardrail Model

Lauri 32:46

They they hired someone. They both tried, and they did when I got a little further along, come back to the like, okay, now that the roughest parts have happened, it went from they hired like a student teacher to teach me where they have a second wheel. So you're driving sitting on the left-hand side, and they have another wheel. And then eventually I remember my dad taking me to a parking lot too, and the driving was going pretty well. And I have a distinct memory of him as calmly as possible getting me to stop the car. And underneath was the like, I gave him a few gray hairs because I was going in reverse as fast as you might go forward, right? And it calmly but with a kind of an edge underneath. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Okay, there's something that you need to know about cars. The way the wheels work, you can't go as fast backward as you can go forward. It's dangerous. Oh, okay.

Chris 33:52

Cool.

Lauri 33:53

And like I only needed to hear it once, but no one had ever said you because you're in a parking lot, you're starting to have fun.

Chris 34:00

Yeah.

Lauri 34:00

Um, and I remember very much, I know he had a few more gray hairs from that moment.

Chris 34:06

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, growing up in Montana, um, you know, we were all driving. Uh, you know, at 14 years old, I used to drive myself to work. Uh, you know, my dad would just say, Here's the car or the Jeep. We had an old Jeep. And uh, by the time we got to driver's ed, and we actually had to sit in a car with a driving instructor, we all we all knew how to drive. In fact, our little car was a a Ford escort, a Ford escort with a manual transmission. And man, we just jump in that thing and take off. And, you know, the driver's ed instructor's like, okay, well, let me teach you what stop signs are and let me teach you what the speed limits are, you know. But yeah, we already knew what we were doing. It was it was hilarious, yeah. Yeah, and that's who I want my kids to be. I wanted them to be those kids that when they were put into the driver's ed car with their instructor to go get their driver's license, they were comfortable. You know, they've been they they they knew their way around the car. They've been driving around our property for a couple years. You know, I could I could tell my oldest daughter when she was like 12, hey, go grab the truck and pull it around back so we can load it up. And you know, my my wife at the time would just panic because that's how she was raised. And uh, but you know, Casey would go jump in the old truck and pull it around back, and and then I'd say, okay, drive around the back pasture for a little while and just get comfortable, you know? That's how I did it, and it worked.

Lauri 35:21

Yeah. One of the things, so this is called untamed leader. And one of the things that I notice as a theme in your story feels related or your journey, which is eventually you let people find their own way, and that became a strength. And taming is something where we might be taught there's only one way to do a thing. I'm curious about what the word untamed sparks in you.

Chris 35:53

Oh. Well, probably along the lines of what we talked about is I'm a firm believer in, you know, if I can provide the guardrails and provide some guidance and we can together, we can we can see what the defined result is and then let them go and do. Um, I think that's a great way to lead people. I think it's a great way to teach people. Um, so when when I when I think of untamed leader, um I think a little bit of uh maybe a little bit lack of um micromanaging, to be to be honest. Um I I think we've all been around those managers and those people who who I don't man, I don't know, Laura. You're you're this is a this question just all of a sudden is now like rumbling in my head. It could go a lot of different directions, but uh, I like the word untamed. It seems a little bit like uh, you know, I know you're not this person at all, but it's a little wild, wild west, which is how I grew up in Montana, and and you just went and figured it out. You had to go learn it. And uh, and luckily for me, I had some great mentors and people in my life who I watched very closely who I learned from. And then over the years I I refined my delivery, I refined how I like to do things, um, and then you know, let other people go and do and leave, you know.

Lauri 37:04

Yeah, I love that. I feel like the guardrails are actually just enough of some guidance or a container for people to feel safe than finding their own way, which is very different than the way our education system is set up, is more of the like this is how it must be done. And I think in the world that we're in now that's changing so fast, it's really helpful once we pass 18, or even before, like the 15 to 18 that I worked with, to have something that has people understand like, where's my footing? You know, give me something that makes me feel safe here, and then give me the freedom to play and figure it out and try and fail to find my way of doing things.

Bootstraps & Battle Scars — What Chris Is Building Now

Chris 38:01

Right, right. And I, you know, I I talked about a lesson I learned early on, but that I've tried to teach my kids is, you know, for example, when I was when I was 18, 19 years old, I had a vehicle that was kind of a beater. And uh my stepdad was a mechanic. He was a uh a really accomplished mechanic, and he managed a BMW dealership in Southern California. And I would, he had his great set of tools in his garage. And you know, for me, I'd go out and beat up my my car on the weekends, and Sunday night I had to make sure it was running so I could drive it to work Monday morning. And I remember there was times when I'd be out there in the garage trying to figure something out, and I would go into my stepdad and say, Hey, I I've I've got a problem. How do I do this? And he would just look at me and say, Well, there's a tool in my toolbox, it's in this drawer, go grab it and then go figure it out. And and once again, you know, we didn't have YouTube, we didn't have that back then. I just had to go figure it out. And so now my son, my youngest son, uh, who's now 19 years old, when he when it was time for him to get his first truck, I went and found an old beat-up Ford pickup truck that needed work, right? Um, but that was part of the experience I wanted him to to uh to have was to have to figure out how to work on it and fix it and do things. And and yeah, there were things we did together because that was fun for us to do together. But man, now that kid, you know, if something breaks in his truck, you know, I have a little bit of I have a shop at my house and we have tools, and he comes over and he'll be out there and I'll walk out there and say, What you doing? He's like, and he'd tell me what he's doing to his truck. I'm like, You're doing what? And he's like, Yeah, I'm gonna do this. And I'd say, Well, how'd you figure that out? He's like, I don't know, I'm just gonna figure it out. He'd call me out and say, Hey, I'm stuck here, and we'd go out and have a moment. But I just think that was so important for him to figure things out and learn things on his own. And uh, and that's how I learned, you know. I didn't go to college, I went to college, but I didn't go to university, I didn't get a PhD, I didn't get a master's, I didn't go to school and be taught how to be a leader or how to be a business owner. I just figured it out along the way, and I think I've lost success along the way too. Now, have I made mistakes? I've made a couple, but you know, that's more learning experiences, you know.

Lauri 40:13

Yeah, somebody out there says we learn far more from our mistakes than we do from our successes. It's not always fun, and I think it is kind of true.

Chris 40:22

No, no, and that's why my my platform bootstraps and battle scars. You know, the battle scars to me are all those learning experiences. You know, we all have them. We all have them. And and if we can take those moments where we made mistakes or did something wrong and turn those into learning experiences, then then it's not, it's a win, in my opinion.

Lauri 40:42

Yeah, I was just about to ask you where your leadership journey has led you. What are you currently up to these days? And how can people find you? That you'll have links in show notes and whatnot, but for the people out there who are driving the cars that they've fixed up themselves.

Pivot Pivot: Lightning Round

Chris 40:59

Yeah. So um I I've I've had several. I mean, I've found I've started so many companies and several different industries, and and I've got a little bit of a of what I call uh I call a I'm an anthrabolic. You know, so you know, some people say serial entrepreneurs, I'm an anthropolic, you know. I I I do something that I see a shiny object, I'm like, ooh, let's go over there and do that. So that's been a good experience for me. Uh, but now I'm at a point now where um I've I've I had an exit last year um from the restaurant business, which, oh boy, that's a tough business. And um I learned a lot there. And I actually walked out of there with a little bit of money, and uh, and I decided now I wanted to coach others and I want to spend more time uh mentoring and helping others navigate these the treacherous waters of entrepreneurship. Um and uh and that's why I started my little podcast. It's a you know, I'm just a just a young pup compared to what you've done, but uh it's called Bootstraps and Battle Scars, and it's and I'm interviewing fellow entrepreneurs who have who have lived it, who have who have pulled themselves up from their bootstraps, you know, once, twice, or maybe a dozen times, and have the battle scars a show for it. And I hear I want to hear their story, I want to hear their journey, and and that and those stories I think is where people can learn uh all kinds of great things. Um, so I'm I'm doing a little bit of that. Uh and and so I have a website. I put together a website, it's called BootstrapsandBattlescars.com, and that's where people can get a hold of me. They can they can see my podcasts, they can reach out to me. Um, you know, it's really fun. I I I mentioned earlier that you know every business I've ever been involved in has had this, has been heavily uh uh involved in the customer service experience, right? Because I just I love serving people. I've learned that about myself. Um, I just love to serve people, and so now doing what I do now has been such a great opportunity to go serve the people, you know. I can sit down with young entrepreneurs, people are who are fighting the fight, and I can share my experiences. And and I do have a little bit of wisdom packed on you know hidden underneath this gray hair. Um, sometimes I I suffer from imposter syndrome. Sometimes I'm sitting there listening to somebody's story, and I'm like, ooh, man, who am I? Who am I to to help this person? But then all of a sudden it clicks, and I think, yeah, I've been down that road. I know what that road looks like. Here are some things that worked for me, here are some things that didn't work for me, and and they're actually paying me to advise them and to counsel them. And I and I just love doing that because if I can help them be better and help them become better business leaders and business owners, then uh you know it's it's good for the whole industry, it's good for the community.

Lauri 43:31

Nice, very nice. Thank you so much for sharing and for sharing your wisdom and serving through being here on the podcast today. And now it's time to slide into our peebo pivot.

Chris 43:43

I've been warned. I have been warned.

Lauri 43:45

You have been warned.

Chris 43:46

Yeah.

Lauri 43:46

All right. First question What is your favorite word?

Chris 43:53

Oh man, my favorite word. Persistence.

Lauri 44:02

What is your least favorite word?

Chris 44:05

Negativity.

Lauri 44:08

What turns you on creatively, spiritually, or emotionally?

Chris 44:13

Uh I love building things. I'm a I'm a complete visionary. I love building, developing, creating. I'm a creator for sure.

Lauri 44:22

What turns you off?

Chris 44:25

Well, I really have a hard time being around negative people, people that say they can't, you know, they want to complain. I I'm not a big, I really am not a fan of complainers. Um I don't complain. I'm I'm always there's always a there's always a way. Um so being around people who who don't have that same uh idea as I do is really it's it's it it wears on me.

Lauri 44:52

What's your favorite cuss word?

Chris 44:57

Oh, hmm. You know, I do drop the F-bomb quite often, Lori. Different ways. It's pretty hilarious, actually.

Lauri 45:08

Thank you.

Chris 45:08

Yeah. I cleaned it up for you though, didn't I?

Lauri 45:11

You don't have to clean it up if you want to drop the actual F bomb.

Chris 45:14

I'm I mean I I I've got some skills there for sure.

Lauri 45:18

You got some skills there? Yeah. Um, as a friend of mine loves to say, like you've logged the hours or you've iterated on that one a lot.

Chris 45:26

Yeah, for sure.

Lauri 45:28

10,000 hours dropping F-bombs.

Chris 45:30

Oh, I'm good at it. Yep, I'm good at it. Adjective, verb, nouns, whatever. I got it.

Lauri 45:35

Yep. What sound or noise do you love?

Chris 45:41

Oh, the ocean. The ocean sound. I love the ocean sound. Super relaxing for me.

Lauri 45:49

What sound or noise do you hate?

Chris 45:59

Man. Screaming. Screaming children, screaming people, loud obnoxiousness.

Lauri 46:07

What profession other than the ones you've already tried in your life would be fun to try?

Chris 46:15

Man, I've tried a lot of them. Uh maybe well, I'm I'm I'm working on public speaking. That's kind of a new thing for me. I love it, I enjoy it, I'm trying to get better at it, so uh that's probably my next uh my next my next uh thing. Getting more Into public speaking.

Lauri 46:39

Awesome. What profession would you not like to try?

Chris 46:43

Oh man, I can't imagine being like, I can't imagine like an engineer or a or an accountant or a you know, somebody just sits and does the same thing day in and day out. I just can't even imagine what that would be like.

Lauri 46:59

And Chris, what do you hope people say about you on your 100th birthday?

Chris 47:05

Oh man. You know, uh I I hope they say that I I served humanity well. I was a teacher, um, I was uplifting, uh, I promoted goodness. Uh I'm a persistent and very optimistic human uh that was loyal to his family, his friends, and the people that he served. I'm gonna write that down. That was really good.

Lauri 47:37

Fortunately, it's recorded, so you can even grab it out of the transcript eventually.

Chris 47:43

I'm gonna do that.

Lauri 47:44

Chris, thank you again for coming here and serving, again is the word in my mind, serving the listeners. And uh, people, if you are listening, check out Bootstraps and Battle Scars, the podcast Bootstrapsand Battlescars.com. And if you loved this episode, please like it, rate it, share it with a friend, follow it, do all those things so that the people searching for conversations like this one can find it. And I will see you back here next time.