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Conscious Living with Lucy
Through this podcast I engage in dialogue with spiritual practitioners, therapists, coaches, mental health and wellbeing professionals to support my mission in guiding people to live consciously in relationships with themselves, others and the world.
This podcast provides a platform to share the work of many wonderful souls working in service, offering their work to support people in discovering themselves and supporting them on their spiritual, healing and transformative journey.
Conscious Living with Lucy
Soul Work: An Exploration of Indigenous Wisdom, Nature Connection, Breathwork and Alchemical Process for Healing and Transformation
Join us for an episode filled with wisdom, practical insights, and a heartfelt journey into the realms of healing and transformation.
Our esteemed guest, Marie-Hélène Dalila Boyle, is a seasoned integrative and transpersonal psychotherapist, who reveals her path from a challenging relationship to becoming a guiding light for countless others. With over three decades of experience and wisdom drawn from indigenous teachings of West Africa and the Lakota Sioux, Marie-Hélène shares her unique approach to soul work, highlighting her roles as a therapist, hospice worker, doula, practitioner of breathwork and healing arts.
Prepare to be inspired as we uncover the transformative power of Vortex Healing, a potent energy work that connects to divine sources, and the deep emotional release offered by breathwork. Marie-Hélène delves into how these practices are intricately woven with other healing modalities and the universal significance of breath in spiritual traditions. Learn about the practical applications of these powerful methods and how they can cleanse spaces, enhance food, and foster deep emotional and spiritual healing.
Marie-Hélène discusses the profound interconnectedness of communities and the healing power of her nature-based retreats. Marie-Hélène eloquently describes the importance of soul work, working with the elemental energies, and honouring ancestors and the earth through daily prayers and rituals.
Through heartfelt stories and insightful guidance, discover how a deep connection with nature, genuine care, and communal support can transform personal suffering into collective healing and spiritual growth.
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Podcast Music created by Vitaliy Dominichenko
Title: Long Road Trip
To hear the full track and others from Vitaliy please visit https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=iuOM-gVaUgQ&list=OLAK5uy_lQQ7YHnzEbywBY3y4SOiPITLFqrXymtJo
Welcome. I'm Lucy, host of Conscious Living with Lucy podcast. Today I'm joined by marie ellen delila boyle to hear more about her spiritual work with people. Marie ellen and I discuss the work that is important to her, the training she has embarked on and how she is pulling this all together to work with people online, in person and through her wonderful retreats in Portugal. Marie-hélène is a qualified integrative and transpersonal psychotherapist. She holds a postgraduate diploma and is registered with the UKCP. She has been working for over 30 years with a variety of clients. Marie-hélène's many interests led her to take her practice into a woodland setting inspired by the wild therapy and the forest school movements. She also worked as a counsellor with people at the end of their lives in a hospice and as a doula.
Speaker 1:Indigenous training from West Africa and North America, lakota Siu, has brought depth and connection with nature into her work. She is an experienced practitioner of healing arts such as rebirthing, breathwork, vortex healing. She leads sweat lodges and ceremonies. She is on the endless path of exploring her inner world and undergoes continuous spiritual training. She serves as the head of the healing concentration of the Inayatiyah UK, a school of universal Sufism dedicated to the healing of all beings and the planet. She is a spiritual guide in this lineage and holds space for solo and group retreats following the alchemical map of the elements, to facilitate healing and transformation. Marie-hélène loves singing and dancing and she has found great joy in leading the dances the Universal Peace meditation in movement in the name of peace.
Speaker 1:I'm delighted to have the beautiful soul that is Marie-Hélène with me today. Whenever I talk to Marie-Hélène, her vast spiritual knowledge and experience comes through, as does her connection with nature. Marie-hélène always helps me to deepen my understanding of indigenous knowledge and nature-based practices. So before we begin and I hand over to you Marie-Hélène, I would like to take a moment to connect us all with a short centering practice.
Speaker 1:So if we just take a moment to connect with our breath, feel the earth beneath us, feel the earth supporting you and guiding you, feel the inspiration that comes up as you inhale through your feet all the way up through your body to the top of your head, pausing for a moment as you reach the top of your head, feel the connection to the sky above you and as you exhale down, feel the breath moving down to your feet and back into the earth, releasing anything you need to as you connect down with the air.
Speaker 1:Continue in this way for a few breaths, drawing in through the earth up to the top of the head, drawing in through the earth up to the top of the head, pausing at the top to feel the connection to the sky, and exhaling down to the earth and releasing a couple more breaths in this way On the next breath. Almost imagine you are breathing up from the earth and down from the sky and feel the connection of those two energies as you're breathing at your heart centre. Place your hands on your heart, take a few breaths and feel gratitude for yourself, all that is around you, nature, and just take a moment to feel gratitude for the insight, experience and wisdom that Marie-Hélène is here to share with you today. Thank you. So, for our listeners, it would be great if you could start by telling us a bit about your experience and training and what inspired you to embark on this lifelong journey and work to embark on this lifelong journey and work.
Speaker 2:Yes, while I was preparing for this podcast, I realized often that when we embark on this kind of healing journey is when something doesn't work, and in my case it was a relationship and I really wanted to understand what was that about. It was a very difficult relationship. So that was my first step was to seek for counseling and after a while I decided I wanted to train because I had received so much from my counselor really. So I got really inspired that it could be a career for me. So that was my first place of trying to bring healing to my life really. And later on I realized well, you know, a lot of people are in similar cases. So that's my first training.
Speaker 2:I think I've always been interested in healing, without knowing what it was. Even very young, I think I was always reading some interesting books, not necessarily books that my friend used to read at school. So there was something a kind of a seeker in me. So the training that I did was a spiritual aspect to counseling and psychotherapy. That's what really drew me. So there was a sense of finding a little bit more about my inner world already doing that training, and then I went into full friends.
Speaker 2:Really you know things happen to you and then you just say, oh yeah, I come. But really it's like they are messengers and they open the door to other places. So I discovered the teaching of Sobunfusome through a friend who was very close to that work. So, ceremony, there were a lot of teaching about nature in there as well, a lot of teaching about grief and a lot of teaching about how people in a village live, a community, living in community. And then again another friend discovered this teaching from the Lakota Sioux who came to England through a dream. They were told to come to the West and that brought another level of understanding of nature and teaching for myself and also my husband. We both did that training together, which was very, very special. And again, little by little, you know, when you're back on this path of healing, things come your way and they resonate and then you just go for it.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think that's what I can say, right now, amazing how you just, yeah, really trust, trust the things that come in the process and trust that journey and then, as you say, more seems to unfold for you. And interesting. You know, relationships seem to be primary in everything in our lives and they offer so much potential for, you know, healing and growth and transformation. Wonderful, yes, yeah, amazing, amazing journey so far. Can you also tell me a bit about your healing arts work, just to give our listeners a bit more insight into the healing work you offer? And particularly, I haven't actually heard of vortex healing.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:That's a new one to me, so it'd be good to hear about that too, yes.
Speaker 2:Vortex healing is an energy healing and it came from the state Rick Wayman and I trained with him many years ago. So this training is the opportunity to really connect to divine energy of healing, which you know divine means a lot, but it's very alive, it's very potent and it's linked with the realm of healers. So we kind of go into meditation and we receive a little bit like raking away, but you receive something in your body which is called vortex wheel and from there you activate this and this is connected with the energy of Merlin. So it's very wizardry. You create some light structure in yourself first, so you attune and you create your crystal greed and your healing greed and then from there you send healing to a different part of your body, for yourself, but also people you work with. It's a lot, a lot, a lot of level of training.
Speaker 2:So I haven't done the whole thing because I had younger children at the time. But the purpose of it is really to clear any of the they talk about DNA, actually clearing at the level of the DNA which is all in your spine. So there's a lot of technology about it and different level and different connection with other healing forms. So I can access this grid and I can also access the grid of homeopathy, for example, or I could access the grid of acupuncture. So this kind of treatment within treatment, within treatment. What really excited me was this kind of connection with the healing realm of healers. You can invoke whoever you feel connected to. You should do that in another work as well. Um, and I remember the first session I had, I was completely zapped. I just remember my body, I just could not even move, I mean, and it took about a few days to really integrate and really felt like my spine had been cleansed.
Speaker 1:So it's really deep Sounds very powerful Also reminded me when you were talking of the vortex of. I was just reminded of Sufism and the whirling and the spinning to connect with this consciousness. It kind of just I don't know if there's any resonance with that at all but, just kind of just this sense of I know it's a very different practice, but just a sense of the kind of another thing to access this kind of energy and consciousness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you, you know all those things are so difficult to put into words. Indeed, it's a very alive energy, very sparkly. And it came through Rick when actually he was into a hotel room and he just felt like so many people are coming into this, so many people are sleeping on this bed and so many people you know, and he wanted to clean the room and the energy came to him. It was like really sparkly. So you can use it for cleansing Also houses energies, you can enhance your food. It has a very practical tool. You know it's a very practical tool and I use it, not necessarily all the time, but I realize I use it when I do massage. That's energy conscious. You can put crystal grid on your massage table, activate my own, link it with a person, and it's always such a bigger practice than the ordinary massage somehow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's quite universal. You can use it in many ways. Yes, yes, right, and any of the other healing arts that you just want to talk a bit more about in terms of what you offer.
Speaker 2:Yes, I offer breathwork or rebirthing, or conscious breathing. That's been a love of my life and I discovered this when I was pregnant with my daughter over 32. Yeah, she's 32 now. It was connected for me with pregnancy, to do with my midwife, who was really into it big time, and it's been such a support during my pregnancy, during the birthing process, and I've worked and I brought that many pregnant women as well. So for me it's been very much connected with birth. But you can use it all the time.
Speaker 2:So breath, you know every esoteric school, every path talks about breath. Yes, everybody talks about breath. It is like the prana, your life force and everything, and you can just notice how you're breathing right now for a moment, yeah, straight away. So when I use this type of breath work, it is like connected breath, so we don't pause in the middle and it has this benefit of bringing up a lot of our thought, body, sensation, emotion to do with things that we've been suppressing. So the connection at birth is when you are the first breath.
Speaker 2:You have been conditioned by what was going on for your mother, for your father, for your doctor, for the nurses around.
Speaker 2:You're completely working in receptivity and you pick up things good things and things are not, so life enhancing and by doing this ref work for about 40, 45 minutes, things really come up and you can actually look at them and say, you know, is this something I want to carry the rest of my life? That I'm not wanted or something, or I don't belong here or, you know, could be anything, or I'm the wrong sex, or you know, archetypal thought comes up and then the second part of this work is to really noticing where the thought come breathing again and keep changing your thought for what you want. So it sounds really simplistic but it's very deep and profound work and I tend to do 10 sessions. After 10 sessions, people really get what it is about and then they kind of access, integrate and put different thought patterns because, you know, thoughts affect our emotions and so on, and it's a huge tool for transformation and I breathe regularly. It's something that has been in my life for a long time, so I always feel it's been such a powerful support.
Speaker 1:Obviously, I practice a lot of Ashtanga Yoga and we use Ujjayi Pranayama and there's very much the emphasis as well on not just about the physical asanas, it's all in the breath. We always say it's all in the breath. You know again, you listen to your breathing, you just focus on the breath. So yeah, and the power of the breath is very, very powerful and transformative. That sounds wonderful.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I guess, does it matter, like how people, when I say, how well they can breathe? Obviously, if you practice, like if you meditate or you do some kind of like you say pranayama practices or breath work, does that enable you to go deeper or does it not matter? Can you just be just someone who's just breathing, normally, is not focused on the breath, or will you get more from it if you've, you know, studied some kind of breath work already?
Speaker 2:I would say yes, if you focus on your breath, like straight away. Let's focus on the breath right now. Okay, something changes, yeah, yeah, okay, something changes, yeah, yeah, straight away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:I do sometimes some. This is in my psychotherapy client session. I tend with some clients to just start with what's your breath, you know, what is it that you really want to talk about today, you know, and suddenly there's something deeper comes in. It's not, oh yeah, today I did that. It's like, okay, oh yes, if you pay attention to your breath for one minute and breathe really slowly for one minute, everything, your whole state of being changes. Okay. So the first step, always noticing, and then, if you can just be with your breath as a friend, really, you know, you say, oh, I'm really being shallow today, what's happening, and then stretch away something. So I've got this little sentence with some client. I say, okay, just what are you thinking right now? How is your breath and where do you feel? Whatever you feel in your body. So you bring that attention to the breath, you bring that listening and you bring the body.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's really accessible wherever people are at working with the breath.
Speaker 2:They are actually. It's like you say there are some contraindications because it is a powerful tool. So said there are some contraindications because it is a powerful tool. So there is a list of contraindications if you have heart failures or all kinds of things, you know, because you change your circulation, you change everything Okay.
Speaker 1:So there are some things people would need to be, aware of, but there is always something they can do.
Speaker 2:And this type of breathing. You have two ways. You can breathe through your nose and you also can breathe through your mouth. The mouth, breathing in and out from your mouth, is tend to access a lot of deep feeling, so it can be quite strenuous if you breathe in that way for for a while.
Speaker 1:But this is why you need a practitioner next to you to remind you, you're safe to hold that safe space for you, which is always very important with any of any type of spiritual work, is always very important. Yeah, and I, I guess, yeah with the, which is something we yeah, our attention is not on our breath when we're about our life, it's just because it's kind of automatic. You just take it for granted almost and forget it's there. So, but, like you say, there's so much in that, so wonderful.
Speaker 2:I was just thinking of something else I've been doing and I'm and it's connected to the breath is our first breath with the birth, but our last breath as well at the end of our lives, and I think people who start working with breath in that way or midwives they also. You know, maybe we're getting older, we tend to also be holding space for end of life and if such a privilege both hands, really such a privilege to be there for the last breath of someone you know it's quite extraordinary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean even just saying first breath and last breath. It, yeah, there's so much in that, yeah, yeah, wonderful and yeah, seeing that whole journey as well. I know you're passionate about many practices healing and transformative practices and you did touch on a little bit in the introduction about why you started this work. But what else inspires you to to do this work with people?
Speaker 2:I think it links with. We are all connected. If you feel on the top of the world and you feel great and your neighbor is completely depressed, doesn't go out and can't feed themselves, something doesn't quite compute. So I think the passion is that we all rise. You know, this is a very special time. We all know that and there's a sense of the whole world is shifting, changing the planet, everything else, and it's like we are all on a call. That's one of my beliefs. We're all called to rise to a different vibration.
Speaker 2:So the desire to be able to be in service of others, to bring more peace in people's lives, to bring healing, to bring balance, whatever people come, you know their issue is to have maybe a different perspective, to support them in their trial and tribulation, to hold them when they need to cry, whole heart is part of you know, just being able to connect with everybody and knowing that we all need to do this work together. So it links with. You know the teaching of the Bontru in a village, in a community, if someone is unwell, everybody is unwell. If there's somebody who has a mental health problem, they don't say what's wrong with him. They say this is a message for the village. What can we do about this person? What is the message that he's bringing? Again, it goes into we're all connected.
Speaker 2:So my own support when I needed some healing, it's like paying forward. Somehow. You know you receive something and you want other people to also feel better in their life and thrive. You know and I was just thinking of some clients we call them clients, but you know they're people who come in to see me for healing, who are totally, really, really my heart, are in love with those people, so of course I want the best for them. You know, and this is something from my training I say you cannot work with anybody you don't like. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:No, you don't like yeah, that's true, it's, it's no you don't love you can like them and not love them or whatever, and and it is this kind of rapport these people are touching your heart with their pain, with their suffering, and it's sometimes, you know, necessary. We learn so much from our suffering but you are able to hold them and that is an incredible privilege. People trust you to hold them in their most vulnerable places.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and it is really wonderful and really important, as you say, that we care about everyone, not just this work for ourself and you know, as you say, it impacted the collective conscious.
Speaker 1:And if we want the world to change or, you know, in a way that serves us and the way that we can serve the planet better, then we need to think about everyone.
Speaker 1:This isn't just work in isolation, of course, we start with ourselves, but it's really important and great that we have people like you who have a big, open heart and want to take that out to support others and care about, you know, not just your own joy, but the joy of others. It's very important. So you mentioned mentioned obviously, on your website, even um, people can see it there that you offer soul work really, which I believe, any of the work we do, if we really want to work with people, it needs to be soul work, but not everyone will know what that means and we can interpret it in different ways. So what does kind of soul work mean to you? You might have just touched on it and what you said, really, but maybe there's a little bit more to add so what soul work means to you and how this can support people in relationships with themselves others in the world yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:well, soul work, I think the image I like to bring maybe it's you know, you'll be able to see a beautiful pond, beautiful lake, the sunshine, everything is flat and shiny. But then suddenly you go into the depth of the lake and there's something else happening there that you will never see. So soul work is a little bit like this. People could come and say well, you know, I want to sort out my relationship with my daughter, or whatever, yes, yes. And looking for the cause and the essence, it's a bit like a detective work. Sometimes there is a sense of is it just with your daughter, I know. So you just start finding ramification of a certain type of behavior, and for me it's like having the place where you can start responsibility. Or maybe it could be about me, maybe, and not everybody. Start work the work with that thought.
Speaker 2:You know, it's very much always projecting. Yes. So for me it would be the first step is like turning the mirror back and saying okay, and then from there, the soul. You know, the Sufis say the soul is covered by a thousand veils. So when we we say soul work, yeah, what does it mean exactly? So maybe some people call it a shadow, some people call it the kind of journey you go. So you start as a happy child or unhappy child, of course, and then there is, you know, the place of adolescence, when you start exploring your own world and in the soul work it's very similar you get to maturity, where you take responsibility, you question.
Speaker 2:I think we start by listening and questioning. So you're at the top of the pond and you can hear there's a rumble underneath, so it goes a little bit. What is the rumble about? You know, before he goes and becomes like that, yeah, so it's a listening and it's not taking things for granted. I would say so something happened in my life. Okay, what does that tell me?
Speaker 2:I've got the story of this friend right. He was a businessman and he had the roof of his factory he was doing tin food. Tin factory collapsed, oh gosh, and for him that was the beginning of his spiritual journey, for example. Right, he said I can't keep doing those things. It's not really me. I think it's really finding within yourself the resonance of what is in antiquity in truth who I am. And that is part of the soul work, and it's very difficult to do that on your own. Yes, absolutely. Who am I? You constantly need to have a reflection, absolutely. So you know, I have people who know. They say, oh, I want to work with you, but I don't know what it is. I know it's not psychotherapy and I know it's not. They don't really know what it is. Usually it starts that way, yeah, is usually it's. You know, start that way, yeah, and then it's for dreams, working with dreams, the soul is knocking at the door.
Speaker 2:You know I keep having this dream. What is it, I don't know. So that's a way of working through with, uh, soul work. It could be like a huge, big change in your life, you know. So it's a kind of sometimes it's crisis, yes, and it's like the soul is waking up, say, hey, you know it's time, it's time to, to listen to me, to be in balance with who you really. You know you are.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely, I do similar with my coaching as well. I do also soul life coaching, because exactly this, and I think you're really kind of helping to explain that. So it's people just present with something. But, yeah, the soul is coming through and it might be just coming through one of these experiences because, like you're saying, it's just making me think of it at the moment, as you're describing it, that there's something that needs to be communicated or needs to be understood and no, like you said, the relationship, the challenge with the daughter is just the way this is is coming through. Yeah, yeah, but but people, as you say, are not always ready to go there, or you start to see the similar patterns coming on in the same different scenarios, but similar things coming up all of the time, and I guess this is the the soul, as you say, trying to to come through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to express just saying pay, pay attention. You know this is time to to really move on now.
Speaker 1:It's time to let go of yeah, yeah, but you definitely need, like you say, you need the relationship of someone to mirror that back to you to help to help. You see, it is very important and it's very it's very difficult to describe soul work, um. I think you just really helped to articulate it then, because sometimes I struggle to describe it, um, but that was really helpful just to give a bit more clarity to that, because these are things that are, you know, they are ineffable, it's really difficult to define, it's something very hard to grasp. So what does it mean? But that was a beautiful way of helping to convey what it what it is.
Speaker 2:You know the, the idea of the soul being covered. I think that's why it's so hard to grasp, like you say, or you know, maybe another word for some people would be your essence. What is your essence? What is it that makes you you, yes so unique? We are connected we talked about that, but we are so unique. Unique, we are connected, we, we talked about that, but we are so unique. So there's a beautiful uh term that I love from uh um rumi, which is a sufi poet, um, and it talks about be your note, the poem about it. Be your note, what is your note in this symphony of the universe? You have your specific note, and I've been thinking about that a lot. I think that's maybe the work. What I like is to find what is your purpose, what is?
Speaker 1:your note.
Speaker 2:So the transformation is about unlearning all the masks, all the ways you're trying to adapt into this world which is, you know, gabo, mate say, toxic. The word is toxic and we're trying to adapt to something which is toxic. And I feel my work, the essence of the work that I like to do, is actually the opposite Do not adapt. What is it in you who is longing to burst out and who will make a difference into the world? Because, when you think about it, if everybody find their sole purpose, their essence, I have a sense we'd be much more at peace, Absolutely.
Speaker 2:We'd be less jealousy comparison war. I really feel this is so important. Yes, and it is not easy work.
Speaker 1:No, so I know.
Speaker 2:So, as always, I have a lot of great respect for anybody who embarked on this journey.
Speaker 1:I know it's not easy, not for the faint-hearted. Yeah, beautiful. I really like how you describe that as finding your note being part of yeah, as a beautiful music will play when everyone is singing their note Exactly, exactly, yeah, so wonderful. We'll be working more in harmony, so exactly yeah, yeah beautiful. So I just yeah. I wanted to ask you a bit about. I'm noticing more and more people are coming around to this and they're coming around to the idea of the non-dualistic view of life and accepting or becoming aware of that we are not separate and distinct from nature and that we are indeed part of it. We are it, it's in us, it's everywhere. Yeah, how do you see this? How can we help people to cultivate this connection and understanding further?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the first part of your question I want to bring the kind of the indigenous teaching, because for them it's always been there.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You know, I think it's a kind of a Western concept that we're separate from nature. So the tribe, you know, in Africa and many, many places really. It just reminds me actually, of the speech I don't know there was a speech of Chief Seattle. He wrote to the president of the America at the time I can't remember who it was Washington, maybe In the 1800s or something and the whole speech is about how can you not see that the sky is our brother, the earth is our mother, the animals are brothers and sisters? You know, and you want to buy this land. There's nothing to buy, more or less. He was saying there's nothing to buy. We're all you know together. So that deeper connection for myself I just found it when I was doing the sweat lodges yeah, that was so tangible. You can intellectualize it. You can just say, yeah, okay, you know I'm close to nature. Whatever I'm doing, my recycle, you know you can just be in that level.
Speaker 2:But the deep nature connection, it's like those stones in the lodge or, if people don't know what it is, the ceremony of a swine lodge, the ceremony of purification, and we have the connection with the stone. So the stone had been picked up and every stone has been asked are you okay to come for a swan lodge? And they all said yes. So we listen, first thing. We listen the wood we collect to burn for the fire. We listen, we give thanks, we acknowledge that, uh, the tree was. You know the wood came from. The tree was planted by somebody or whatever. It is a deep connection with everything we do is in respect. And then we enter these structures made of willow or azole. Again, those have been connected with respect, with asking. Each time we ask for something, we give some tobacco Tobacco is a plant to say thank you. So everything is done in that total sacredness, in that total sacredness.
Speaker 2:And when the stones are placed in a fire with an intention, usually we start with gratitude. That's the first thing with everything. And when they come into the structure, we're all sitting down around representing Mother Earth, really the womb of Mother Earth. Suddenly everything becomes alive. The stones are talking to people, the fire is talking to people, the water is talking to people. You really understand that. All the elements are so alive and it's really hard to connect. You know everyday life with that. So how to bring it in your life?
Speaker 2:I would say start just saying thank you, each time you drink some water or when you have your shower, enter a relationship with things around you. You know, enter a relationship with a tree in your garden or one of your plants. Each time you water the plant, you talk to the plant, they would respond yes, it could be that simple. Or I had a friend who did a diary with a tree in her garden. She was going there every single day at the same time and write what was happening for her or the tree change according to the season, of course, what bird was coming, what she saw.
Speaker 2:There is a basic practice and we call it a sit spot. So you sit at the same place at the same time every day and see the world going past. You know, it could be in front of your front door, it could be in your back garden, it could be. You go in somewhere special in nature, the top of a mountain, and you do that every single day and this is what we call a sit spot and it would deepen your connection with nature so that everyone can do that.
Speaker 1:So people can just really start in small ways in every day. It doesn't have to be big. But so many of these things we do kind of mindlessly, like you're saying, even in your garden, you, you might water, but people don't think about it. They just, yeah, just water the garden. It's just something they just do and and look.
Speaker 2:Look at the plant when you start talking. Look at it just oh, you're beautiful. Oh, you got a new rose today, wow, yeah, all these things like he would be your friend. So that's how I would say we can bring it in our everyday life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, starting us from your ways and I know in your work you talk about the elements as an alchemical process Can you talk a bit more about this and describe your vision and understanding and how we can practice it?
Speaker 2:It's quite a big question, so it really follows with what I was just talking about, really. So I said the elements. If you have a thought that the elements are alive, how do you relate with the element? For example, we know in the summer we had a lot of fires in Portugal, in Greece, I mean, last year. So what is our relationship with fire? Why are those fires arising everywhere? What's that about? And Marie de Massomy talked about this We've lost our relationship with fire. So fire is out of control and doing its own thing. Maybe it's just grabbing our attention. If he was a friend and he was erupting everywhere, you know we say okay, what is it? What do you want? You know? Maybe that's type of thing.
Speaker 2:Again, you know, it's so many cultures we talk about, like, we talk about the breath, we talk about the elements. So my training as a psychotherapist and transpersonal are very much based in the elements. So we have all the elements in us. The Chinese talk about the elements, so many people, yeah. And we have one predominant element, let's say. So, you know, you might be someone who's really drawn to water. Water feels really important. You have to swim every day, or I don't know. Or you're someone who just loves climbing and go at the top of the mountain right. So it's not astrology called element so much, it's your relationship with one element. And sometimes you can actually see on people's face. You know, you can see someone who is really like a lot of, I would say, chicks is someone I know with more water in them, more emotional. So it's basic. I'm just talking about basics. So many different layers, but I say what we try to do, the whole purpose is to balance everything. So you're going to have a receptive side. You know I'm a fire and I'm shining and everything's, and then I can be completely distorted, taking over, and everybody's fed up with this person who's always thinking they're the best thing on the earth. So that could be, you know. So we're trying to balance and it's constant, it's constant.
Speaker 2:So what practice that I do and this is from my other lineage, my Sufi work is to breathe with all the different elements every day. So we called it. We have different ways of different breath connected to different elements Is to, you know, go out in the morning early rising. There's something about seeing the sunrise. Yes, absolutely, you know, it is kind of a whole magnetism around you and a lot of people know that they get up just before the sunrise. People pray sunrise the same thing with sunset, you know.
Speaker 2:So those two pauses of the day are very important. Even if you're not able to see the sun, you could just pose. You know, in France you know sun six o'clock every night. She stops and she prays, or you find your own ways to acknowledge those two. That's like ancient, yeah, ancient.
Speaker 2:There's something about posing on the different festivals of the year. You know the Celtic, whatever wheel you choose to follow, there's something the energy is strong. You know summer solstice, that's out. You know you just want to do things. That's the fire, right? Yeah, that you just know, and there was a lot of fire festival at that time. Yeah, and it's the same with, you know, when you think of the winter. So all the things all kind of the year, the wheel of the year, you know the ancient knew and there was something special and they connected to different elements.
Speaker 2:So which one do you feel the most comfortable with? You know that would be something to pay attention to. You know I can be someone who feels really, really good in the winter and I'm cozy and I'm just, I want to be in and okay. So you're really earthy. You love the earth. The earth is giving you everything you need nurturing. So I would say, you know, look at your life and where is the earth in your life? Maybe you're someone who wants to do conservation work and you're never giving yourself that, yeah. Or you're someone who just love swimming with dolphins or something and are you going to do this for yourself one day. So I say the element can call you like this, okay as well. Yeah, but practically, maybe we do that later. I can do the the breath according to the elements. Okay, that would be nice, yeah that'd be wonderful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's just interesting about what we can learn from, as you say, which element is calling. I mean obviously portugal, greece, you know mediterranean is having more fires, but in the uk, for example, we're having water, rain, rain. You know non rain. So it's interesting to see what changes are also needed collectively in a place. Yes, as well. Yes, different, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yes, so in the Subunfu work we had some different shrines to different elements, and one of them was the water shrine, and the water shrine is all about forgiveness. For example, who do we need to forgive? It's always a bit of tricky work, this one, but it's always constant. And it could be just make a list. Make a list of all the people coming into your consciousness that you see. Oh, I've got these things. I haven't talked to her for 10 years, or who is that person? And you know, maybe, even if they're not alive, that's a type of work with the element as well. Yeah, and you can teach us yeah, and you could choose.
Speaker 2:You know, you could just say you know I really need to make a list of all these people and burn it in the fire and that's forgiveness.
Speaker 1:It could be very simple ritual and I I have done that with some client and it's very powerful um, you just touched a bit on, uh, your work with, so on, food, so it kind of leads me to where I wanted to. Something else I wanted to ask you about, you know, your different training in various west african and indigenous practices and and in the spirit of knowing that this knowledge is obviously sacred, so you don't have to share all of your wisdom and experiences but what's been most profound about, I mean I think you've mentioned lots of it already as we've been talking, but if there's just anything else you wanted to add so what's really been profound about these teachings and how have they helped you personally and and people you've worked with, I mean?
Speaker 2:I think something I haven't mentioned is the ancestors. So in both tradition we talk about the ancestors. The ancestors are around us. You call on the ancestors, um. In the sufi tradition too, actually, it's called about the people who have been doing the work before you. So you know, you have this type of ancestors.
Speaker 2:So this is a support in the unseen, and I think this is something people don't understand. I didn't understand, I don't know what it means. So when you say you need to renegotiate the contract with your ancestors, and it's like no idea what you mean. So it's you know people you've known. You know parents or grandparents. They are ancestors. As soon as you pass into another realm, whatever your belief is, there's a kind of an impression or something of an ancestors and you can ask for their support, you can ask for their guidance. They're not all good ancestors, so you have to be also discriminate who you call in or cut in the ties with the one who are not helpful.
Speaker 2:So this is another type of work altogether, but I would say that comes up sometimes in sessions Very clearly. You just sense an energy in the room, not only for me. I mean both. You know the client as well and it's been very profound. It's been very, very profound. Some people To know that you know grandmother is looking after you and watching you and helping you and you know it's been so healing. So that's something in Lakota as well. Lakota, the ancestors are fed. You know, before you eat anything, before you finish your ceremony, your sweat lodge, whatever vision quest, you feed the ancestors so it gives thank you for all the sacrifice and all the tribulation that those people have been through for you to live a better life. Yeah, that is. Yeah, it's a kind of reciprocity. I think I haven't mentioned that, but it's been constantly. We need to give back. It doesn't have to be the person who gave you something. Sometimes you, you know, but you, in your own way, you give back to something, somebody or some energy, some beings, your pet, or you know it could be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so just balancing this energy of giving and receiving, and, yeah, the gratitude, and yeah.
Speaker 2:All the indigenous talk about this gratitude and, yeah, all the indigenous talk about this. In in south america, north america, aborigines everybody talks about the reciprocity, not taking and and um, it's the same with the earth. You know, we talked about, I think that we talk about nature, but that's a sense, it's what we've been doing taking, taking, taking, taking, yes, so balancing. You know the, the kind of vision really for us to shift in something different. I is to give back. So what does it look for you and me is different.
Speaker 2:You know, everybody's got to have their own ways and it could be, you know, some people really into conservation at the moment, or planted trees or whatever, but something I think, mainly in the 80s, everything was for grab, everything was. We had an abundance of everything, and we still do, we do, but it was a sense of there was no tomorrow. Yeah, and now we know better. So that's a relationship with the earth. Okay, yeah, and now we know better. So that's a relationship with the earth, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, now I wanted to talk about one of the prayers, another prayers. You know, those kind of tradition have a sense of praying and people say I don't know what prayer means, it's just talking, just have your relationship. If you say to your plant oh you're so beautiful today, this is a prayer in a way. This is like thank you for your beauty, that's a prayer, right, and we have in Lakota traditions, again, that could be every day a prayer every day, and we have different category to pray.
Speaker 2:So you pray for spirit or the unseen, or your ancestors, or you know people who have passed on recently, you know, so there's that. And then you pray for the creation, so what we call maybe nature, now, I suppose Nature. So you pray for the regeneration of nature, the nourishment of nature, for reproduction of all the animals. We know they're going down. You pray for the balance in the elements, where we're just talking about, the fire is out of guilt, or the water. You pray for the balance. And then you pray for the human beings. So be for the spirit nature, human for the human beings. So be for the spirit nature, human for all the people in your heart, the people you know need people in Gaza, people in war zone. You pray for the sick people. And then, last, you pray for yourself. So I say, this is a practice. Whatever prayer means for you, maybe just having a thought of. You know there's no water when you're drinking water without making you feel guilty.
Speaker 1:Right, it's not a bad guilt, this one, yes and it almost you as you do that I guess you, you see, you're just sensing into and deepening your almost. It's like an energetic connection as well, yeah, as you're saying your prayer, or talking, or however you want to describe it, I think, because people have the association with going to church and praying, saying prayers, as it were.
Speaker 2:Their purpose. You know, thousands and thousands of years, people are saying the same prayer, saying the energy can be strong. Yeah, true, yes, but this is like a heart conversation with something bigger than you.
Speaker 1:With all of this sacred knowledge you know there is people do approach this, some of this thing. I think there's, you know, more interest in indigenous practices at the moment and many people are wanting to take plant medicines and go off and it's like, yeah, I've been here and I've taken this plant medicine. And again, I think there's a danger that we just get into the consumerism approach and we don't really respect the knowledge, the wisdom, the teachings, how important it is to the people who you know are indigenous to that area. So how, yeah, how do we yeah, it's a big, a big thing actually um, how do we make sure we take care and people respect it? I mean, in some ways it's a bit out of our control what individuals do, but I mean, maybe there are some ways we can well this this is not my expertise, but obviously I hear about it there is a calling of plant teachers.
Speaker 2:They call them. I have the experience of someone I know who is really involved and she's now saying you don't need to go to the jungle, you don't need to do that, you don't need to do that. You know you could access it from your own bedroom because this energy is to do with energy, so you can decide to do. It's like a retreat in life, more or less. You are in retreat, you and us, and you completely concentrate on that plant. So you meditate on the plant, you ask guidance for the plant. So this is a way, yeah, for the people who are traveling to those places. I think, yeah, you're right about the consumerism. I think we have to be very careful because there's another thing take, take, take. Whatever. I think you have to be. I would do research on good teachers. It's not someone who's done two weekends and you know. I think that you have to be very with those things. So the credential of the people, I would say, and also the integration what happens after two weeks when you go back to England or wherever? What happens? Is there a follow-up? Because I have had some people in my counseling psychotherapy practice who had been on weekend with you, know different plants and they are completely frazzled. So I think the integration is really important.
Speaker 2:I think, um, how many years these people have done this? I would just check. You know that is not two years. I would just go to someone who's done at least 10 years and they know what they're talking about. It is a calling. You know People are being called by the plants.
Speaker 2:Okay, I really hear that it's everywhere from you know cacao, you know cacao. Yeah, cacao, from this is like becoming. You know, people are on yearly drinking cacao every morning, so it's becoming a practice. I think it's important to hear the call of nature. There's something there. The indigenous people are traveling, they're bringing it to the West, they are being shown in dreams. We need it. So there's something there. I think I would be a yeah, a very, and you know when somebody's teacher can't be your teacher. So I think I would do your own research. And again, for anything like that, you know what is your reason, what's your reason? What do you want? If you haven't got a clear vision or goal of what is it you want, I think it's quite tricky because it can get being thrown.
Speaker 1:Definitely, and because people are just thinking, oh, it's a thing to do right now without, like you're saying, really identifying what it is they want or why they're going in search of this as well.
Speaker 2:And maybe we talked about earlier. Maybe they're in search of their soul Journey. You know it's a yeah, I say the. For me, the integration is really important. So even the person offer that they can offer follow up calls, or finding someone who knows about this well, who can really help you to ground.
Speaker 1:I'd like to know about this a bit, our inside nature and outside nature which kind of resonated with me a lot.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if there's anything you want to talk about immunization to this. Yeah, if there's anything you want to talk about emulation to this.
Speaker 2:Well, it touches a lot of things I talked about already. I think the reciprocity comes then as to self knowing that it cannot be disconnected from the earth, and vice versa. So the people who just find a project to create, rewinding or something, how does that affect you? Rewinding inside that reciprocity, that balance between the two. So, looking at what's happening on the earth and looking at what's happening on the earth and looking at what's happening in yourself For your landscape, your inner landscape, connected to the outer landscape, and vice versa, and it's very much the theme of my retreat in Portugal, so I can jump into that too, so connecting with all the elements we talked about.
Speaker 2:We would be kind of immersed in the elements. You know it was the ancient practice the Sufi and other people actually buried you in the sand. Oh wow, you know, with a little straw when you were spent at night there or something. So there's something about immersing yourself in the earth. How would that feel like actually, which, you know, some people are going to choose to be buried one day, or some people are going to choose to be cremated or something. But it's the same with the fire, just really gazing at the fire and finding that connection with fire.
Speaker 2:So this retreat is elemental because of the location as well. It's high up in a mountain in Portugal, the Estrela, and the Estrela is a mountain of the stars, so we ride up. There is crystal mountains. There is a history of the Templar going through there. There's a ley line. It feels very hot to do a retreat in there.
Speaker 2:So the schedule is very early, rising with the sun, doing some light practices, sound practices. So it's like mantras, recitation of mantras which are linked with qualities. You know different mantras. So to connect with that quality within yourself and again, using the magnetism of the earth. Early morning there'll be a beautiful natural pond where you can really immerse yourself in the water and spring waters you can drink. So that's morning. Do it to practice. We can have a walk in practice as well.
Speaker 2:And they follow that pattern of the elements. So we start with the earth, it goes into the water, the fire and the air, the ether, and then you bring back everything you gain you receive as a gift. And then you bring back everything you gain you receive as a gift, bring it back into the earth and then you just take that back into your life to work. So that's based on alchemy, the transformation of each element. So you start with the murky earth or shadow, or you know all the stuff that you don't want even to look at yourself.
Speaker 2:You know, you know he's there, you say no, and we have, on retreat, the possibility to do that, to go deep, and we do this in silence. So we have the first and the last day would be, um, not in silence, it would be talking, but talking. Those five days of silence, because the silence it's likely to be like the poem I was talking about. You know, you just drop, you don't talk. For I remember one of my first retreat, when I came out. Each time I said a word, I could feel the energy coming out and we saw not. It's only when you stop that you realize and this is a practice as well Some people it's going to be very easy. Some people they're going to really want to talk and to watch that, to watch it. So this is based on silence. This is based on very basic, not basic, beautiful, organic, homegrown food, so the food doesn't become a distraction.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But for some people it might be because you're confronted with all the things. Suddenly we dance in the evening. I've just brought the Dances of Universal Peace. This is another kind of meditation in movement, coming from a lot of tradition. They are simple chant, such a beautiful attunement and a transformational path. Free time, so it will be some afternoon free time. We're coming all the way to Portugal, so we trust the weather will be fine in September. All of this retreat it's always feel very, you know, such a privilege to lead people on retreat because, like we said.
Speaker 2:You know, this is like a place where you can actually listen into your thoughts without the distraction and I've ever done that to cook Other people cook for you. You're totally immersed in this beautiful holding of the elements of nature and the really sense of the offering is like if you heal yourself, you heal the earth. If you heal the earth, you save yourself. That reciprocity, it can't be separate Absolutely. That's the idea behind it.
Speaker 1:And also in community too, with others. Yes, thank you for that. Held in community.
Speaker 2:Thank you for saying that, because I had the most amazing connection with someone I was in silence with and we became friends after the retreat. Amazing, you know, because it's again. It's that soul connection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sounds amazing. I wish I could go. At this time it won't be possible, but definitely in the future I'd love to join one of your retreat and I will include the link and the information about your retreat as well. So, and if people can't make this one, the next one for sure you would do many yes, yes yes, okay, well, wonderful.
Speaker 1:Um, I'm conscious we've been talking for quite some time. Wow, which time flies. It's amazing. I think we will conversation there, but before we go, it would be wonderful if you want to just lead us through a short practice of your, your choice, so we can experience some work with you thank you, lucy.
Speaker 2:It's been really uh enriching to be able to express all this, you know, um, yeah, thank you for your pertinent questions as well you're welcome, it's just.
Speaker 1:It's wonderful for me to have the opportunity to have this bit of time with you and hear your wisdom and, yeah, you always bring so much joy and knowledge and I it's a blessing for me and I'm very, very grateful that you were happy to join me in conversation.
Speaker 2:So I feel we talked a lot about the elements, so I'm going to bring the purification element from a Sufi practice and play you the song Wonderful, perfect. So actually you know the achievement you gave at the beginning. This is the earth breath. It's more or less coming into the earth. So let's take a breath and bring yourself into this practice. So, just connecting with the soles of your feet and just imagining what's underneath your feet, you know below your floor, what's the foundation of your place, wherever you are, that connection of the earth where you are, you know the earth knows you. So bring in that, maybe your roots, and find in, you know, maybe underneath your house there's a big boulder or there is a and a of water or this. Just use imagination to go deep of water, or this, just use imagination to go deep. And we breathe through your nose. So breathe in and out through your nose for this breath. Our breath is very much connected to gratitude. So what are you grateful for right now? Bring that into your heart right now. Bring that into your heart and, if easy to visualize for you, the earth is kind of an ochre color and it spreads, spreads and you can just feel that connection with the mycelium underneath your feet. So do five breaths with that, in and out through your nose. Now I'm going to invite you to bring the water element. So the water of your body, the water of the lake, the water of your body, the water of the lake, the waterfall, the shower, whatever water, the rain, and then you breathe in through your nose and it's a kind of vertical going down. The water flows down. So imagine, at the top of your head, in your crown, you are the top of a waterfall, breathing through your nose and re-breathing through your mouth when you exhale and feel the water spilling at the level of your second chakra, just two fingers below your belly button. So breathing through your nose, water, imagine. The water really cleanses you. It's a purification practice. So you've been cleansed, your cells, your bones, ligaments, muscles, everything has been cleansed by the water. And then when you breathe out, you feel like everything is giving back to where it needs to flow back to the ocean.
Speaker 2:That five breaths, breathing in through your nose, top of your head, and breathing out through your mouth, of your head and breathing out through your mouth, and this practice is linked. Image of a rising sun. You're walking in a desert, walking to the sunrise, into the sunrise, and you breathe the sun into your solar plexus. So this is a little bit higher than your belly button. You're breathing through your mouth open, gentle.
Speaker 2:So imagine you breathe the sun in that place of your body and you feel it like purifying again, cleansing, burning anything there's no need to be there anymore. And you bring your breath right up into your heart. So you breathe in through your mouth, rising like the fire rise, and then, at the level of your heart, you breathe through your nose and you radiate that light through your nose and you radiate that light. So it's like the fire being transformed into light. In through your mouth, out through your nose Fire breath, fire Breath and finally just connect with the air element.
Speaker 2:So, whatever that means for you, the air coming from all different directions, sense of freedom, and we breathe in and out through our mouth, feeling that you are breathing in everything that exists and you breathe out everything out in the universe. So it's a really expanding breath, it's a breath of freedom. Maybe in a yoga it's a mudra, a front. You really feel that inspiration, freedom coming in Focus, the dirty bowl of your third eye, and then, when you breathe out, you're giving back everything to the universe, so the stars, cosmos, as far as it feels comfortable for you. Sense of all your cells have space. You're looking at space. Really Nothing is solid. Just bring yourself back in your room and really sensing your feet on the ground, just sensing your state. After that, journey through the element, very quick journey through the element.
Speaker 2:Wonderful you might need to move your hands your fingers yes, everything to move your hands, your fingers yes, everything. So I would like to finish with a song from the Buddhist tradition may all beings be well, may all beings be happy. Peace, peace, peace.
Speaker 1:A short thank you so much. That was wonderful. Yeah, I could have stayed in that for ages. Well, you know it's short.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, that was wonderful. Yeah, I could have stayed in that for ages, no, no.
Speaker 1:Again, this is something take what beings be at peace, Peace.
Speaker 2:Peace, peace, peace Peace.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:It was amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time, great to have you with us and for your knowledge and wisdom. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Thank you, much love to you. Bye.