A Marriage Redeemed with Marcus and Keli Keener - 38

A hard heart. A bold knock. Tears in a hospital room. That’s how a quiet surrender began—and how a marriage and a man found their footing again. We sit down with Marcus and Keli Keener to trace a redemption story that blends miracle moments with honest, daily work: instant freedom from addiction alongside a longer journey through anger, anxiety, and depression.

Keli shares how she met Jesus first, found a circle of praying women, and watched a determined pastor make a daring promise at her doorstep: give church one month. That challenge collided with an ER scare and a breakthrough Marcus can’t fully explain, except to say that grace found him. From there, discipleship moved fast—scripture first, service next—while emotional healing took patience, counsel, and community.

Marcus opens up about growing up Native in a small town, a father’s war trauma, and how pain hardened into rage. He maps the path back: a Christian counselor who wouldn’t be bullied, medication that steadied the mind, and a brotherhood he calls “two o’clock men,” the guys who answer in the night, pray without posturing, and show up when it counts. We unpack Living Free, a national discipleship program with table discussions on anger, addiction, and identity, and explain how to join or start a group in your city or online.

Keli offers field notes for wives: build a multigenerational prayer circle, speak life when feelings want payback, and choose churches where men pray for men and women lift women. If you’re searching for help with Christian anger, men’s accountability, or practical steps to fight isolation, this story offers language, tools, and hope. The thread through it all is simple and strong: community beats isolation, scripture shapes courage, and small faithful steps add up to change.

If this conversation stirred something in you, share it with a friend, subscribe for more stories like this, and leave a review so others can find the show. Tell us: what’s your next brave step?

If you would like to learn more about Living Free, visit their website at https://www.livingfree.org.

Transcript

Welcome And Rapid-Fire Warmup

Kim McIntire 0:08

Hey everyone, welcome to the It's Time to Rise Up Podcast. We pray you are encouraged and blessed by what is shared today. If you're not familiar with our show, please check out our website at it'stimetoriseup.org where you will find our social media links. And for our podcast platforms, you'll find us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and everywhere else you find your podcast. We are so glad that you have tuned in today. We're honored to have Marcus Keener as a first-time guest. Welcome, Marcus. And Keli, his wife, as a returning guest. Thank you. Yeah, Keli's on our lead team with Rise Up. And you've been on the podcast a few times before, but Marcus is a first-time guest, and we're glad you're here. I'm also joined with my co-host, Amber Sampson. Hello. Hey, Amber. So lately we've been focusing on testimonies and redemption stories, and you guys definitely have one. But first, before we jump into your story, I have some rapid fire questions to get us warmed up. Are you guys ready?

Marcus Keener 1:13

Yeah.

Kim McIntire 1:13

All right. You want to take turns, Amber? Yeah, go you go first. Okay, who is the most likely to be late?

Keli Keener 1:20

It's me. I'm only on time when he drives. You even admit it. That's true. It's because he drives faster than you. That's true.

Marcus Keener 1:27

Not much.

Amber Sampson 1:30

So uh where is your mutually favorite place to eat?

Marcus Keener 1:34

Texas Roadhouse.

Kim McIntire 1:36

Probably so, yeah. Yeah, who doesn't like that? I'm sorry if you don't like it. I'd have to question your taste in food.

Keli Keener 1:42

It's because I have a breadbasket, right, Kim? That's right. That and the salad.

Marcus Keener 1:47

I like the salad just as much as the steaks.

Kim McIntire 1:49

Oh, it's so good. They do have good salads. Which one of you is the quickest to forgive? Me. Keli. Would you agree, Marcus? I agree.

Amber Sampson 1:59

Okay. So what is the one thing about the other you love the most?

Marcus Keener 2:07

Her willingness to serve.

Kim McIntire 2:09

That's a good one. Yeah. What about you, Keli? I love that he's protective. Yeah. Yeah, he's very protective. I can just totally see both of those qualities in your eyes. So, Keli, if you could only describe Marcus with three words, what three words would you choose?

Keli Keener 2:30

Well, he's definitely caring. He's very lovable. But the one that people that know him and know us together will totally agree with this one. He is spoiled. Is that true, Marcus?

Marcus Keener 2:44

Yes.

Keli Keener 2:44

Yeah, it is true. Not even trying to deny it. It's true. I blame his mama, then I took it over. That's awesome.

Amber Sampson 2:53

Oh, I don't think you can blame her anymore. You guys have been married a long time. It's not her fault, Mom, if you're listening to it. Marcus, what about you? What are three words you would describe about Keli?

Marcus Keener 3:07

Caring, loving, and always dependable.

Kim McIntire 3:11

I love that. And how long have you guys been married now?

Before Faith: A Hardened Heart

Marcus Keener 3:14

31 years.

Kim McIntire 3:16

That's awesome. Yeah. Okay. Well, Marcus, we're going to start the story with you. What can you tell us about your life today that is different from your life 30 years ago?

Marcus Keener 3:32

Thirty years ago, Jesus wasn't even on the radar. I mean, there was no thoughts, no perception, no ideas, no nothing. I mean, as a child we went to uh church just long enough to go to camp. You know, because they had a well, if you go three weeks or whatever, then you can go to summer camp. And so that's the only time that we went to the church when we was the children.

Kim McIntire 4:00

Wow.

Marcus Keener 4:01

You know?

Kim McIntire 4:01

And so the big difference is you didn't know Jesus.

Marcus Keener 4:05

No.

Kim McIntire 4:06

Wow. So in light of that, how did you come to know the Lord?

Marcus Keener 4:15

Well, that's where, you know, me and Keli's gonna probably tag team this.

Keli Keener 4:19

Okay, yeah, go ahead. Um can I start? Okay. So I had become a Christian. It was on Easter Sunday, 1998, and I gave my life to the Lord, and um I came home, and of course Mark wasn't a Christian and didn't really want any part to do with it, but I just started go I started looking for churches. I just started, I just knew in my spirit. I needed to go to church. You know, I didn't have anybody to to disciple me or whatever. I just had this burning um because I got saved out of town, and so in my town, I didn't know anybody that was saved. And I had gone to this one church and I was like, I won't go to that church because it has this name and I don't like that name. And it's so funny because that name is freedom is liberty, right? And so um, anyways, I I went and it was just it there was women there that um was in my same position of having a husband not saved and not wanting to go to church. And so there's a lot of us women there, and we just kind of um just we were in that same season of life of having young children. And so we just started meeting um on Tuesdays for prayer meet or prayer and Bible study. We just started studying the Bible and praying, and the church put up with us coming and bringing our kids, and so we just started praying and fasting for our husbands, and several of us did that, and um it was just so meaningful. And our pastor one Wednesday night, he came up to me on a Wednesday night and said, I'm going to your house and I'm gonna witness to your husband. He's either gonna whoop me or he's getting saved tonight. He's gonna whoop me.

Kim McIntire 5:44

It's like you had a reputation, Marcus.

Marcus Keener 5:47

Uh a little bit of a reputation. Yeah.

Pastor’s Bold Visit And The Deal

Keli Keener 5:50

And so I said, Okay, well, I'm gonna go to my friend's house and I'm gonna stay at her house until you call us, because this was before cell phones, and you give me the okay, it's okay to go home. Because I was kind of scared to go home. Wow. And so me and the kids went to our friend's house and he called about midnight. And he said, Well, Keli, Marcus didn't whoop me. He said, but he promised me, he said, I made a promise with Marcus. If he went to church for one month and he did not feel the Holy Spirit, I would not invite him to church again and I would leave him alone. He said, Mark took me on that. And he said, so Mark said he'll be in church Wednesday or Sunday night or Sunday. So we went to church that Sunday, and um Mark kind of fought me all morning. He didn't feel good and he didn't really want to go, and he just, you know, is hee-hawing around. And so we took the kid, we got ready, we went to church. And it's just so funny how God works. Um, just the a week or so before that, Mark and I had an argument, and I was and I literally said, I don't care if you go to hell, I'm not gonna tell you about Jesus anymore. Wow. And um that was really hard because I meant it. It wasn't a slur, you know, it was I didn't care, I was so done. And um, anyways, and so um we go to church that Sunday morning and we get there, and um, it was the beginning of revival. And so, you know, the old school revivals where you have to get ready for the potluck that evening, yeah, and they needed volunteers.

Marcus Keener 7:15

Good old Baptist, they gotta eat, you know.

Keli Keener 7:17

And so we went and I was like, Oh, we'll do it because I wanted Mark to be in the church doors every time it's open, right? So, yes, we'll do it. We'll come, we'll come and set up, whatever. And so that evening we were going back to set up, and Mark was like, Oh, I Keli, I can't do this. I'm not feeling good. I said, You'll be fine. You'll be fine. You'll you're fine. And so we were driving, and on the way he's like, You're gonna have to take me to the ER. And I'm like, if you those that know me know that I'm not empathetic with illness like that. I I struggle with being empathetic to him when he's ill. And so I dropped him off the ER and went to church.

Kim McIntire 7:51

Wow.

ER Crisis And Salvation

Keli Keener 7:52

Yeah, for real. And so I get to church and I start telling my friend and my friends at church what I did that I dropped him off. They're like, you need to get up there with him. I'm like, no, he'll be fine. And so my friend said, Hey, the same lady that I stayed at her house that night, she said, I'm gonna stay with your kids and I'll take them to my house after church if you're not back, and you go up there with your husband. So in the meantime, I didn't know my pastor had already been to the hospital. And as I was walking into the ER room, he was walking out, him and a couple deacons, and I I he saw me, and he was, I mean, his head was down, their head was down, and I thought, uh, I don't know really what I'm walking into. And he said, Keli, that's the hardest man I've ever met. I don't think he'll ever get saved. And so I walk in the room and in the ER, and Mark's sitting there, and or he's sitting up in the bed, and his tears are just flowing down his face. So you go ahead and take it from here.

Marcus Keener 8:50

Now I know that at that point I'd already accepted Christ. And I told Keli, I said, I'm ready. And she said, To die?

Keli Keener 8:59

I thought he'd meant to die. Oh, he of little faith. Wow. But he did die his old self. Yeah, that's so true.

Kim McIntire 9:07

The old man died, right?

Marcus Keener 9:08

I did. I did die. I died to myself, and uh I accepted his grace that night, and um that next morning they took me from that ER in my Oklahoma to by ambulance to Tulsa. And I spent a week at Oklahoma Heart in Tulsa, and they did every test that they can imagine, and did not um find anything wrong with my heart because it had already been fixed.

Keli Keener 9:36

Yeah, yeah.

Kim McIntire 9:38

Wow. Yeah.

Marcus Keener 9:39

Yeah.

Keli Keener 9:39

The broken heart. You know the scripture about that um he stands at the door and knocks. Yeah. He was knocking on Mark's heart, is what it was.

Marcus Keener 9:48

He had to pound them to get my attention.

Why The Heart Was Hard

Kim McIntire 9:50

Well, something that Keli said that just caught my attention was when the pastor said that is the most hard hearted The hardened man, hard-hearted man I've ever met. Hard hearted man I've ever met. So, Marcus, would you care to share about how did that heart become so hardened? Would you like to share a little bit about that? Is it connected to your childhood, your growing up?

Marcus Keener 10:20

All of it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I got I was raised in a small town that was, you know, predominantly not native.

Amber Sampson 10:31

And so, I mean, there was a lot of Well for our listeners, you are you are native. That's a history. That's right. Yeah, he's a share heritage. Yeah.

Marcus Keener 10:39

And and so it was it was hard for that, and I was uh a bigger bigger boy, and so I mean, it was a lot of fighting, a lot of roughness. You know, uh dad left when we was young and we was raised by our mom and she did the best that she could. I mean uh struggling single parent with four children. I mean, so I mean um and no family support. Very, very little family. I mean, the family support that we got was critical. I mean, so and I mean it was yeah, it always came with attachments as well. You know.

Kim McIntire 11:15

Wow.

Marcus Keener 11:16

And so I mean it was just a struggle.

Keli Keener 11:18

Yeah.

Marcus Keener 11:18

Yeah, it was just a struggle.

Keli Keener 11:20

Yeah, his dad was a Vietnam vet. Um he came back with some struggles. Sure. So that kind of worse.

Kim McIntire 11:26

I would say anyone who c who came back from Vietnam probably came back with some struggles, right? And that creates a domino effect on families.

Marcus Keener 11:35

Yeah, and he never dealt with the, you know, his PTSD or his diabetes or anything that he came back with, you know, because he drank a lot to overcome self-medicate his PTSD, and then and then which led to his his diabetes being way out of control and just uh you know, and so it was always a struggle with him just uh just to even be around because of his own guilt.

Kim McIntire 12:00

Sure.

Marcus Keener 12:01

You know, and so that makes sense. But just a lot of anger. Anger just come out of that, you know.

Trauma, Anger, And Self-Medication

Keli Keener 12:10

Um I really think probably some anxiety and depression, but because we didn't really call that in boys very much, it came out as aggression and anger. And I and I'm true. Yeah. So I th I mean uh looking back, that I feel like that's a piece of it.

Marcus Keener 12:26

Well, yeah, it is a piece of it. Because I, you know, I'd I also self-medicated, you know, and so um but you know, like I said, with anxiety and depression, you know, nobody really called it out back then. Sure. And I I was not one to crawl underneath a blanket, just hide from the world.

Kim McIntire 12:45

I was uh I would just go fight the world and just anger really made you a person, I'm ready for a fight whenever. That was kind of the attitude.

Marcus Keener 12:57

I was looking for it every chance I got.

Amber Sampson 12:59

Yeah. So what the pastor comes and visits you in the hospital. Um what were your thoughts when he comes and you see him? What did did he say something that poked your heart? Or just was it like kind of just I'm kind of curious what what took place in that room? Because it sounds like you went in one way and maybe came out some something different.

Marcus Keener 13:27

I'm not even really sure what he said. I mean, to be honest. Yeah. But whatever he said, um the transformation happened between the time he left and the time Keli walked in.

Amber Sampson 13:41

So the Holy Spirit was evident because I think that's I think that is something is that we don't always have to have all the right words because really it's the Holy Spirit working through us. So we don't have to we put a lot of pressure on ourselves sometimes, or at least I do, of like, well, we need want to say the right things, I want to, you know, say it right, all the things. But really it it's the Holy Spirit who does the work. It's not me, it's not Pastor, you know, that night. It was really it was the Holy Spirit, and uh he was just he was the messenger in some way. So Yeah.

Marcus Keener 14:15

Pastor Carroll, he was just so devout on whoever he met.

Keli Keener 14:19

He just He was an evangelist at heart, man.

Marcus Keener 14:22

He I mean he was just so devout on telling everybody he could about Christ. And uh Wow.

Kim McIntire 14:29

Thank God for those hearts and those men and women. Right. You have that evangelistic spirit and gift.

Keli Keener 14:35

I've often thought about um the guys that were with Carol that day, what their thought was because they've never spoken to me about it, so that's interesting.

Marcus Keener 14:43

They've never spoken to me about it either. And they were two of these deacons at the church.

Keli Keener 14:48

Yeah, know them well.

Marcus Keener 14:50

Yeah, know them well. And uh it's I I don't even remember what all the conversation transpired. Yeah. But uh I'm pretty sure I was not gracious receiving what he said though.

Kim McIntire 15:06

You know, because I Because of what he said to Keli.

Marcus Keener 15:09

I was not a gracious person at all.

Kim McIntire 15:11

Right.

Marcus Keener 15:11

Mainly at that point, you know, until you know until salvation.

Kim McIntire 15:16

So backing up a bit, um how long were you guys together before Marcus has this ha heart transformation? I think we should talk about that. Like how long were you living apart from Christ?

Marcus Keener 15:30

Together, I mean. We dated a little bit in high school.

Keli Keener 15:34

Yeah, he was my first boyfriend in eighth grade. Eighth grade. Yeah. We weren't together this whole I mean we broke up in there, but still.

Marcus Keener 15:43

And uh but we broke up and she moved away, and then uh I went to work out on the road and was traveling all over the country, and um she had called me.

Keli Keener 15:54

We always kept in touch for birthdays. His birthday's in January, mine's December, so we talked at the end of every year.

Kim McIntire 15:59

So there was always a friendship then. Oh, yeah. And when you weren't dating. Wow. Yeah that was the Lord. Yeah, oh yeah. Keeping you connected. Because the Lord knew how the story was gonna go. He knew. You know? Yeah.

Marcus Keener 16:12

But that that year I was actually at Los V in Las Vegas and she had called, and and whenever I got home, mom had told me and that she had called, and so um I didn't know her number because she hadn't moved.

Keli Keener 16:27

I was really hard to get a hold of. Uh I didn't have the same home number very long back in the day.

Marcus Keener 16:32

But her grandma was still in the same house. And so I drove to her grandma's house and and uh had her grandma call her for me. And and then from that night I asked her, I said, I said, Well, are you available to talk? I said, 'cause I am. And I want to say it was on a Thursday.

Keli Keener 16:52

No, uh uh it wasn't like on a Tuesday, but was it on a Tuesday?

Marcus Keener 16:56

Yeah, okay. But uh But I told her I said, you know, and I was still an hour and a half away from her. And I said, But I'm on my way. And so just tell me where to meet you. And we met met on uh little 7-Eleven at on Robinson Avenue. Yeah, yeah.

Keli Keener 17:12

Norman, Oklahoma.

Marcus Keener 17:14

Like 12th and Robinson is wherever.

Keli Keener 17:16

So is that when the official dating relationship started? We just started dating pretty quickly. Yeah, he moved down uh within the week. Literally, he said, I'll be back Thursday with my hanging clothes. Oh my hanging clothes. If you guys know Marcus, he doesn't have hanging clothes.

Marcus Keener 17:33

I did then.

Keli Keener 17:35

That's so funny. Yeah. So we've just been together ever since.

Kim McIntire 17:41

So is it a dramatic shift when when he comes home from the hospital? Was it dramatic? Was it gradual?

Keli Keener 17:49

It was, I mean, his salvation and serving the Lord was immediately. We were in church, we were serving the Lord, I mean, we were studying, but he was still angry. Um we were still walking on eggshells for a long time.

Kim McIntire 18:02

Yeah.

Marcus Keener 18:02

I'm talking with one of the guys that I'm uh with in a group now. Uh he said, Man, you was lucky. You had a pastor that walked you around the shallow end and just really got in the deep end quick. And it and it was true, Caribbean said away. He didn't you you just you got there were there was no ankle deep, it was neck deep all the way. I mean you just you just got in.

Keli Keener 18:27

Yeah.

Marcus Keener 18:27

I mean, within the yeah. Within a week of my baptism, we was out knocking doors and witnessing and you know.

Kim McIntire 18:37

That's incredible, Marcus. I mean, really.

Marcus Keener 18:40

And I think I had to wait a week and a half to get baptized. Yeah, because he had to heal from all the procedures that surgeries and stuff, and then um but then um then after baptism we went door to door knocking because he had it on his heart that we was gonna witness to the town. And we eventually covered the whole town, door every door.

Keli Keener 19:03

And you did that with him. Well, and there was a group. So there was probably ten of us, probably that ten or twelve of us, yeah.

Gratitude, Skepticism, And Family Adjustment

Marcus Keener 19:09

Yeah, something like that.

Keli Keener 19:10

But yeah.

Marcus Keener 19:11

But every week we would meet together and we'd go knocking doors and inviting them to church and you know, talking scripture with them and tell them how good that God is to us.

Amber Sampson 19:20

And so Keli, what are you thinking?

Keli Keener 19:22

Like you're seeing your husband do some things like knocking doors and telling people about Jesus and if I'm being really honest, I teetered between being so grateful and sometimes angry, if I'm being honest. Why why angry? Um because I was like, he has been so angry, you know what I mean? And and now he's so soft and he has a heart for the Lord, and I didn't know how to take it sometimes. And so I think it was it was a process for me for sure. And our kids, I think for our kids it probably was a longer process for them to kind of see, oh, my my dad is different.

Kim McIntire 19:58

Yeah. Yeah. Can you share maybe individually or as or together as a couple some just uh spiritual you know, struggles that you've had along the way that you've had to overcome and what you've learned from that? Is there anything specific that stands out to you?

Marcus Keener 20:22

For me, um my day of salvation, I was delivered from all my substance abuse, even tobacco usage and all of that. The day the day.

Kim McIntire 20:34

Praise God.

Marcus Keener 20:36

Yeah.

Kim McIntire 20:36

And so that is rare.

Marcus Keener 20:39

Very rare. Yeah, and I've never had to struggle with that again.

Instant Deliverance From Addiction

Kim McIntire 20:43

I mean, it's just so your addictions broke.

Marcus Keener 20:45

Was gone.

Kim McIntire 20:46

It was delivered never again immediately immediately. Oh, Marcus. Praise the Lord. I just want to take a pause here. So I believe there are listeners who are struggling with addictions, who are hearing this episode. The spirit is stirring in me right now. And we just want to speak over these airways, there waves that there is hope for deliverance. You are not in despair. That is not your story. The God who delivered Marcus Keener from his addictions is the same God. And we speak Jesus over you right now in agreement that every chain break in the name of Jesus, that addictions have to flee in the name of Jesus. Thank you for sharing that, Marcus. We believe for that. And, you know, listeners, if God if God does that for you, let us know. Reach out to us on our social media. Put a comment in our um comment box on on YouTube, but we would love to hear your story as well. But, you know, I know it, I know that happens, but it's not very often that I hear that story. But you know what? He still does it. He still does it. He still does it.

Ongoing Battle With Anxiety And Depression

Marcus Keener 21:56

But one of the things he didn't take away from me was my anxiety and my discipline. Depression. And so I had to um the the process of living and learning how to deal with that uh got better and better every day with it.

Kim McIntire 22:13

Yeah.

Marcus Keener 22:14

But it wasn't a real breakthrough until I got in Living Free. And Living Free is a national program. They have books and Bible studies. I'm not alone.

Kim McIntire 22:38

Yeah.

Marcus Keener 22:38

There's other men w exactly where I'm at, and it's okay to be with those men.

Discovering Living Free

Kim McIntire 22:44

And so for we are in the Joplin, Missouri area. Our our um Rise Up movement, our team is in that area, and that's where we minister largely. Are there places who offer the Living Free program in our area? And if so, could you guys talk about that a little bit?

Marcus Keener 23:05

Right now, Faith Assembly is the only one in Dopplin that I know of that is offering on Wednesday night at 7 o'clock.

Keli Keener 23:13

They do living free tables and national programs, so wherever anybody lives, there's probably a living free Bible study going on. There's online studies. Um they can get on the Living Free um website and look it up wherever they're at. Um there's an online group, there's um multiple studies you can do. You can buy the books and do them yourself and have a group yourself. So it's very versatile. It's very good. Multiple writers, it's not just one writer. Um so you get um a lot of um input and perspectives. Would you guys say that's your passion?

Kim McIntire 23:51

Yeah. Yes it is. Are you guys facilitating and living free now? We are. That's incredible. Yeah. Yeah.

How To Find Or Start A Group

Marcus Keener 23:58

But yeah, that's but yeah, through those classes and and dealing with other men, you know, and like I said, they offer very specific um Bible studies, you know. And one that had the biggest impact me on was uh anger, your master or your servant. You know, and anger is an emotion that is given to you by God.

Kim McIntire 24:20

Right.

Marcus Keener 24:21

So let's let's learn a godly way how to deal with our anger issues.

Kim McIntire 24:25

Yeah. And uh Did you say anger? Is it your master or your servant?

Marcus Keener 24:30

Yes. That's the name of the Bible study.

Kim McIntire 24:32

Now that's a good reflection question.

Marcus Keener 24:33

That's the name of the Bible study, yes.

Kim McIntire 24:35

Yeah. I pray that someone just grabs hold of that that resource. Yeah. And exp I know so many people have had life-changing experiences.

Anger: Master Or Servant

Amber Sampson 24:44

You can buy the books online, you can do it in your life group, pastor or m you know, leaders out there, you can get get it started in your church, you can do it at your, you know, grab some people at w at your job and and do it. And if you've got a program in your, you know, if you I work in a nonprofit ministry where we um serve those in need, and we've we do those classes and they're very helpful. Have you also been a facilitator for the I've facilitated at church and then um at my job and it's um yeah, it's it's a it's a it's a really neat ministry. And it's good because it's not a teaching ministry. It's not I'm standing up here teaching. It's I'm just as a facilitator, I'm literally just facilitating a conversation. Around a table. Yeah, around a table.

Marcus Keener 25:32

So and we're all there even as facilitators, is because we need the material ourselves. Oh, sure. It's not because we mastered anything. We are, yeah, like you say, we're not teaching anything. We're walking along with others in the same place that we're at.

Keli Keener 25:47

And I think that's the beauty of it, is we're walking along. It's not um I'm teaching you this and you're gonna go home and next week and come tell me what you think about it. It's we're walking and and just being really open and honest about how we feel about whatever the topic is. Right. You know, how we struggle.

Amber Sampson 26:06

So, Marcus, um, would you like to share about a personal struggle or a personal failure?

Counseling, Medication, And Scripture

Marcus Keener 26:13

Well, like I said, I when I became a Christian after salvation, I still had to learn how to live with anger and my anxiety and depression, and um it came out as very violent outbursts and um it it hurt everyone around me. It wasn't just a me problem. And uh but I learned it wasn't their fault, it was my fault. I was the catalyst in all of it, bringing out the the hurt, you know. Um uh one of the things I did. I I with my wife's help, of course, we uh we found a male Christian counselor that um was not scared of me. He wouldn't allow me to bully him like the others would. Yeah. And he really put me in my place and helped me deal with a lot of my stuff.

Kim McIntire 27:09

Oh, that's so good.

Marcus Keener 27:10

You know, and uh and that's one of the first aspects of, you know, hey, men need men. You know, because men can really talk about men things with men.

Kim McIntire 27:20

That's right.

Marcus Keener 27:20

Yeah, you know, that women don't they just don't understand.

Kim McIntire 27:23

That's right. That's true. That's a good word.

Marcus Keener 27:25

And it goes the other way around, you know, women need to talk with women about certain things. And uh but at that time I he also recommended that I get on some medication and um I agreed, and so I got on some medication as well. Um but that way we treat the mind health, the brain health, and the spiritual health.

Kim McIntire 27:46

Yeah.

Marcus Keener 27:47

Because he took it back to the word. It wasn't his opinion of it. That's so good. He always took it back to what God had to say in the Bible about it.

Kim McIntire 27:55

Right.

Men Need Men: The Two O’Clock Friend

Marcus Keener 27:56

You know, it was you know, like I said, we we dealt with a lot of things that way. And um and good getting back to my pastor, he was really good about getting me in the word itself. Um he told me something that always stuck with me. He said when I get up in the pulpit whenever I preach, it should be very little revelation to you. It should always be confirmation to what you've already read.

Kim McIntire 28:23

Wow, that's a word.

Marcus Keener 28:24

And so I've always tried to live with that. If a if a preacher's always every week is getting up and bringing revelation to me, then I need to go deeper because I'm not deep enough to where I'm at. That'll be age. Yeah. So that's but you know, we we still believe that you have to take care of the physical and the mental and and the spiritual as well. They all work together as God calls us. Yes.

Kim McIntire 28:54

And we believe, you know, the Lord heals. And we believe that he can do that instantly, he can do that progressively. He can also do that through medical means.

Marcus Keener 29:05

Yes.

Kim McIntire 29:06

And there's no shame in getting a kid. Needing to have medicine or seeking a counselor. Yeah. There's no shame in that. In fact, the enemy would love for us to believe that there is shame connected with that.

Amber Sampson 29:20

I feel like Marcus just kind of gave people uh uh men out there permission that you're not you're not so big and bad that you don't you can't go see a counselor. Like you have you can as a man, and you can might be able to you can probably say that better than I can, because I'm a girl and I like to talk about my feelings. Yeah.

Marcus Keener 29:39

Um well as men, we're raised not to talk about our feelings, you know. Yeah, or emotions. Or emotions, anything. We're not allowed to have them. Yeah. It's it's almost taboo for men to have real emotions. And and that's that's a lie. And it's a lie that keeps us from being close to each other.

Community Beats Isolation

Amber Sampson 29:57

You know, I mean it's I feel like uh don't tell me that. Tell a listener that.

Marcus Keener 30:04

Guys, I am giving you permission. You have every right to seek wise counsel and uh biblical counsel and uh get your life right where it needs to be. You you you have permission to do that. And it's okay. And when they make fun of you, that's their issue. It's not your issue. It's on it's on them.

Kim McIntire 30:28

Amen.

Marcus Keener 30:29

It ain't got nothing to do with you. You're here to better your life and to better the people around you. And no better way to do that than be in a sound mind and a sound body and to be following Christ.

Kim McIntire 30:40

So an admonishment. What an admonishment.

Wives, Prayer, And Perseverance

Keli Keener 30:43

Thank you, Marcus. So hearing Mark share about giving men permission, it really is healing a place of my own heart, of knowing that where we've been, right, and um where God's taking us, that um men need to really know they have permission to seek help.

Marcus Keener 31:05

Right.

Keli Keener 31:05

If that's medication, if that's a counselor, if that's a man in their church, find a man in your church, go do that because your family will constantly be healed. It'll keep touching. It's gonna be a touch that keeps touching. So whether it's your wife or your child or your mother or your aunt or your sister-in-law, um, there's gonna be healing through that.

Marcus Keener 31:27

Yeah. And when we have attacks that come against us, that's where we really need to have our two o'clock men. What I call them a two o'clock men, and it is the time does not matter. But that's those guys that you can call in the middle of the night and wake them up and they're okay with that. That we can share with.

Kim McIntire 31:45

Yeah.

Marcus Keener 31:46

They're willing to share with us, they'll pray together, and if need be, they're on their way to sit with you if that's what you need. And we need to be that for somebody, and so we need those for us. You know, and if we have those two o'clock men in our life, it's easier. Just even knowing that they're there is a comfort.

Multigenerational Women Who Pray

Amber Sampson 32:08

Yeah, you know. So powerful. I think that's I think if you don't have that, ask the Lord. Ask the Lord and ask him until you've until that man comes into your life. And as I'm as I'm sitting here, I'm thinking, Marcus and Keli are are neighbors. We live a mile from each other. And and my husband is that, you know, and he's probably not the only one. And you're that for him too. And um, and so and it's just neat how God brought you all together. And um and so I as somebody who's kind of uh on that side of it, that's it's something it's it is it's a special thing. And so I want to encourage you, men, if you feel like you're alone out there, um, you don't have that somebody you can call at two o'clock in the morning, be asking the Lord and don't be afraid to let that person in and and be and be vulnerable. Um because as a woman, as the wife on the outside, I mean, I know you've counseled and you've helped my husband in some things and uh the value of that, right, Kel?

Choosing Churches By Men’s Health

Keli Keener 33:20

I mean I mean, just the support. I mean, that men, you know, women, we we kind of support each other pretty easily in general. We, you know, we'll kick a meal for each other, we'll do something. But men, on the other hand, it's not as easy to support each other, I don't think. It's not as socially acceptable, maybe, in society. But I feel like God has uniquely placed us in bodies of believers where that was the norm of men supporting men and growing men. And now that we've tasted and seen that, like we want everybody to taste and see that because being in a body of believers where you are supported. And you know, we had we had um our grandson was really sick, and in the middle of the night we would get a text message or a phone call. Hey, I don't know what got what's going on, but God's told me to get on my knees and pray right now, and that's what I'm doing. Um and so that was from a man in our church, and so um several men of a church and so I say pray and seek a body of believers. When you're looking at a church, look at the men of the church. Um, look and see if this is where I'm supposed to be. Right. We there's a lot of great churches and a lot of great men out there that are just waiting for the call.

Kim McIntire 34:30

Right, yeah. And if you're a wife who you know your your husband needs that, pray for him to have that. Yeah. No, he may not even know he needed it.

Keli Keener 34:39

Like I just thought men watched football on Sunday after church and we cooked their dinner. You know what I mean? Like I didn't know that they would pray for each other. I remember the first time hearing um a man pray over my husband and just really battled the l battled in prayer for him. For him. My gosh, it's made a huge difference in me and my prayer life. And I mean Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord.

Marcus Keener 35:02

There's too many men out there that that stand on the watchman theory. The Bible's very clear about having a watchman. And yes, the watchman stands on the watchtower by himself, but he needs to know how to ring the alarm.

Kim McIntire 35:15

Yeah.

Marcus Keener 35:15

Because when the army comes and he sees that, he can't battle that army by himself. He has to call other men to come battle with him. It has to be. You can't do it by yourself. Yeah. Every man in the Bible that was alone was in despair.

Kim McIntire 35:33

That's true.

Marcus Keener 35:35

Was in despair. And so we can't we don't need to be alone with our own thoughts. We need to be with a group of men that holds us accountable, that keeps us God-centered, and and always uh expects us to be more.

Final Encouragement And Prayer

Kim McIntire 35:49

And it it sounds like that that's in large part why you've been successful in your journey with Jesus. Aaron Ross Powell Yes. Right? It has, yes. Because we're more successful when we're in community than we're in when we're in isolation. Yeah. It's when we're in isolation that we experience more failure. And when I say failure, just setbacks or even backsliding tendencies or a neglect of prayer, a neglect of the word. So failure may not be the best word to use, but you know what I'm saying.

Amber Sampson 36:20

I think if you're finding yourself in isolation, find ask the Lord to help you find your way out because it might be comfortable, but you aren't meant to do life alone. And that's that I I mean, I truly feel like it's a playground for the enemy. It absolutely is true. And that's not to bring condemnation on anybody, but just um to have an awareness that you know you're not you really have we are we're a this is the body of Christ, you're a part of the body of Christ, and the body has to function with many parts. And so it's just community, which actually kind of circles back to Keli, like you said, a group of gals prayed together for husbands.

Keli Keener 37:04

So yeah, I'd like just to kind of speak to the wives of maybe that has an unsaved husband, or uh maybe their husband's not serving the Lord, or maybe he just doesn't have a community. Maybe he loves the Lord and he's um maybe a new believer and he needs that support and he needs growth. And um I just encourage you to find a group of women that are that can just pray for each other. Um I encourage you to have women of different ages, not just your same age. You need some wisdom, you need some new people. Um, but you really need that that growth, that um wise person to speak into you. I remember a lady in the church, and it's so funny because it's a Baptist church, but she was pr very prophetic. She said, I know Marcus isn't the best husband right now, but he's gonna be a great old husband. Amen. Yes, yes, yes. And so um, you know, I mean, you know, just speak life and and get around those women that can speak life to you and that can pray, that you can pray with, that you can pray for each other. You know, that is some of the sweetest memories I have of when our kids were small and we'd get together on Tuesday. Like it was our all of our relief for the week. All of us were stay-at-home moms and we had multiple children, and you know, it was a hard season.

Kim McIntire 38:19

Would you say that you would credit that group of women to have a lot of people?

Keli Keener 38:24

I would love to tell you their names because they are such great people. And some don't know what's gonna happen in a prayer group. We don't know. Some have gone on to be with the Lord and they are saints and they've left a trail of just godly women behind them. And um praise the Lord. Yeah. So God is so good. And, you know, he gave us great Sunday school teachers that spoke life to us. I mean, just um just get in a body of believers. Women get together and pray. If your husband's not living for the Lord, he's not saved. I encourage you to do that. Get in a group, start your own group. Don't don't wait to join somebody else's. Call your friends. Who do you who do you call anyways? Who do you call to complain with? Now you can call and pray with them. There you go.

Kim McIntire 39:07

It's such a good word. It's good. You guys have offered so much encouragement and blessing tonight. And we just are grateful for you taking your time to share. And I would just love to pray over our listeners now. If you guys will pray in agreement with me. Okay. Father God, thank you so much for Marcus and Keli in this testimony. Your word says, let the redeemed of the Lord say so. And they certainly have. Lord, we pray for every listener that God, if there are struggles, if they're struggling with community, if they're struggling with addictions, if they're struggling in their marriage, if there are lost people listening, we just speak the name of Jesus over every listener. We pray for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit into every heart, every life. Lord, we believe you are going to use this testimony to draw people close to yourself. And Lord, use this testimony to glorify your name and to transform lives. That's why we're doing what we're doing because we believe there is power in the testimony. We overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony. In Jesus' holy name. Amen.

Amber Sampson 40:19

Amen.

Kim McIntire 40:20

You guys, thank you so much. Amber and I are really grateful for your time.

Amber Sampson 40:24

Yes, for sure.

Kim McIntire 40:25

And thank you, listeners, for taking your time to listen to our podcast. We'd love to hear your feedback. So please rate us, leave a review on Apple Podcasts, and we pray God's grace and peace will be with you all in Jesus' name.