From Jockey to Riding Alongside Derby Winners 🎤 | Donna Barton Brothers Interview

What’s it like to ride alongside a Kentucky Derby winner… while delivering a live interview on national TV?

This week on Horse Races Now, we sit down with legendary jockey turned NBC Sports reporter Donna Barton Brothers—one of the most unique voices in all of sports.

Donna takes us behind the scenes of:

• Riding in the biggest races in the world
• Her transition from over 1,100 career wins to national television
• What it’s REALLY like chasing down Derby and Breeders’ Cup winners on horseback
• The pressure of interviewing jockeys seconds after crossing the wire

If you love horse racing, the Kentucky Derby, or want a behind-the-scenes look at the sport from someone who has truly seen it all—this episode is a must-watch.

👉 Don’t forget to LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, and follow for more insider access to the world of horse racing.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

It's like a stock at 50 weight two. It's 49.5. Blackout time, second in the future. He shows that he's fifth in the grade one caliber, exceptionally fast. He's a spot on serious code. Universe. This is the horse that's not on the door of the high level, but when it's being very competitive at grade it takes well, and just a good post overall takes it by the wind. Just still eight to her to be a grade one win already. He's done everything right every time.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Obviously, trying to get his stable in order, but what we've been trying to do is bring in really great guests until he's back in studio. And today is the best we've had. So I'm so excited to invite Donna Brothers to the to the podcast. Donna, thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Well, thank you for having me, and that's a lofty praise considering you had Doug O'Neill last week. Um I'd beg to differ that I'm the best guest, but thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Well, listen, for me, this is so cool because you've got to understand growing up watching the Derby, watching the Preakness, watching the Belmont, you're a fixture there, right? You always get to see you a part of that. Now, I don't know that I I I've I I remember too much of your riding career, but I certainly remember all the broadcasting stuff. And it's this is this is a really cool moment for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Well, Teague, I don't think you're are you at least are you 40? I'm 46. Okay, well then you were uh probably around 16 when I retired. I retired in 1998, so you wouldn't remember much of my riding career. And um, yes, I've enjoyed the work I do with NBC Sports for the past 26 years. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

All right, Donald, let's start from the beginning. How did you get started in the horse racing industry?

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Uh well, it was not a uh novel concept for me since my mother was a jockey. Um, I think you know my mother was the leading female jockey in the nation um for a number of years. Um, she started riding in 1969, so that was really the first year that women uh were able to get licensed as a jockey. Uh actually, the first license was in 1968. Kathy Cusner fought for the right for women to be able to be licensed because of the Civil Rights Act of 1965. But she was an Olympian and she um had a riding accident, uh, going over jumps and broke her leg before she could ride the first race. So that honor fell to Diane Crump. And then my mother was in that first wave of the first half dozen women to be licensed as a female jockey in the United States. And I want to say that by 1970, she was the leading female jockey by a number of wins. And that was a distinction that she held throughout her career. So she retired in 1984 because she had a pretty bad riding accident. As she says, she was squished into retirement. She um had a number of injuries. Um, and it she was 39 at the time. They weren't the kind of injuries that you would come back to riding from, but she does have a good life. She's actually here at my house today.

SPEAKER_04 3:16

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Um thank you. And then in 1987, um I I graduated from high school a year early, not because I was precocious, but because I lived for four years in Pennsylvania. And when we moved to Kentucky, I was a year ahead in the curriculum. And um it just got to a point where I was just ready to get out of school. And so I managed to graduate with enough credits uh when I was a junior. And I went to the track to, I thought, well, I'll just gallop horses and pay my way through college. And um I didn't ever go to college. And also, you know, I I I learned that once I started galloping horses, um, I grew up in a family where my brother, sister, and my mother were all horse riders. And in my family, I was not the best rider. And so I didn't have a lot of confidence in my skills until I went to the track. And honestly, compared to other people who I was not related to, I was pretty good. Like I got along with horses pretty well. Horses liked me, I liked them. I was light, um, I weighed 98 pounds. Um, I could handle a strong horse. And but I did that for four and a half years. And so now I'm 21 years old and I'm thinking, okay, this is a job, not a career. It's been great, but I either need to go to college or I need to figure out what I'm gonna do. And I had an agent who'd been asking, his name was Pete Antonucci, he'd been asking me to ride for a while, and so I said, okay, if you can get me on a horse, I'll give it a try. And that was in Birmingham, Alabama in 1987. That was their inaugural racing season. By the way, a great lineup of people who were there. Larry Colemus was the announcer, it was one of his first big jobs. Steve Astmussen was training horses there. It was the first time he'd gone out on his own as a trainer. Um, Tammy Fox was riding there. Um, oh gosh, Randy Romero, uh Julio Espinosa, lots of names that you would recognize. But in any event, I rode that first race. Um, and and one of the things that had kept me from becoming a jockey was that I honestly didn't think it would be very challenging because, you know, when you grow up in a family and your mother, your brother, and your sister, my only brother, my only sister were all jockeys. I thought, like, how challenging could this be, right? So I rode the first race and wow, I was blown away. I thought not only is that the most challenging thing I've ever done, it's also the most exciting thing I've ever done. And so I definitely want more of that. And so that was how it began. Uh, Birmingham, Alabama, 1987. I was 21.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Donna, not many people choose a career that an ambulance has to chase you around the track. So it's got to be in the DNA, which obviously it was for you. I want to read some of these stats off for our listeners. So 1,130 wins, nearly 19 million in career earnings. You're among the top earning female jockey ever. Um, you rode top horses like Boston Harbor Harbor, Golden Attraction. In 1997, so this is 10 years after you turned pro, um, you had 136 wins with four and a half million in earnings. I mean, you had to be on top of the world at that point.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Um, yeah, uh, you know, I was pretty I was happy with my career. Uh I loved what I did for 11 years, but I I just got to a point uh where the last six months weren't that fun. I rode for 11 and a half years. And I, you know, in in horse racing, trainers and jockeys both go through ups and downs, peaks and valleys, whatever you want to call it. And um at that point in time, I was in a valley and I thought I'm gonna have to work really hard to peak again. And I had become a bit disenchanted just because um, I don't know, it just I had lost my desire to uh I had lost my passion for it. Right. And and so I had been um dating Frank Brothers, who uh was a successful horse trainer. He retired in 2009, but I'd been dating him for a few years, and he and I had never gotten married because of the conflict of interest rule in racing that applies at most racetracks, where anytime he ran a horse in a race, if we were married, I would either have to ride his horse or sit the race out. Well, as you mentioned, I was having a successful career and I rode for Dale Romans' dad, Jerry Romans. I rode for Wayne Lucas, um, I rode for Carl Nasker, um, lots of successful trainers. And so I didn't want to put myself in that position. And so we just didn't get married because it just didn't make sense from a career standpoint. And then when I was um at that point in time, it was just uh he was actually getting ready to go to New Orleans for the winter. I was gonna have to stay at Turfway Park to build my business back up, and we talked about it and decided maybe it was time for me to make a change. And I made a pretty big change.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

So, Donna, yeah, okay, so almost immediately uh you transitioned into TV, um, discovered by NBC Sports around 2000, um, and really and truthfully became the you know the signature on horseback reporter. Now, Donna, I'm curious, was this your idea? Did somebody come to you and say, hey, let's put you on a horse and let's talk to the jockey right after the race? Or was that something they're already doing? How'd that come about?

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Well, Charles C. Canney was the first one to do it. So when I started the broadcast with NBC Sports, Charles C. Canney was the um analyst, the racing analyst. So Tom Hanman was the host, sort of, I guess you would call him the play-by-play.

SPEAKER_04 8:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

And Charles C. Canney was the analyst, and she started it. Um, I don't even know what year it was, but she was an exercise rider at Belmont Park and was approached about doing some post-race interviews from horseback on television. And I think she was resistant at first, but then decided to do it. And um, I do remember as a jockey, I was riding at uh Keeneland one meet, uh, I don't know if it was in the spring or in the fall, and um Charles C. I was at a party and um Charles C. Canney walked into the room and I thought, oh my gosh, that's Charles C. Canney, because I'd been watching her on TV for years, okay, just the way people have been watching me. Right. And so I was pretty fascinated by who she was and what she did. But by the time NBC came around and asked me to do it, Charles C had uh left that position sometime back. At the time, Greg McCarran was their reporter on horseback. But the the trouble with Greg McCarran doing it is that he was also a full-time horse trainer. And so he didn't have any desire to go into broadcasting full-time or make a career out of it. For him, it was more of like you need somebody on horseback and I can do that. And so he did it, but he he didn't embrace the role. And so when NBC came to me by that point, I was already uh a racing analyst and on-air handicapper for Churchill Downs. And I was doing a little bit of work for TVG, but at that time, TBG, all of their hosts for California, I mean, I should say um talent, were all California-based. And so I couldn't work for TBG full-time unless I wanted to move to California, and that wasn't going to happen because again, I was married to Frank Brothers, who was a six successful trainer. We were in Kentucky, and so yes, I was covering the um Kentucky Derby for Churchill Downs, and it was 2000, and NBC came in to observe that year's derby because they had got it from ABC for the following year. So in 2000, ABC was still covering it, but NBC was there to observe. And unbeknownst to me, they were looking for an on-track reporter, and Tom Hammond and Mike Bitaglia, who were both working for NBC, suggested they watch what I was doing for Churchill Downs on, you know, on the simulcast and on their local TVs and in-house TVs, I should say. Luckily, Tom and Mike didn't tell me that because I probably would have been pretty nervous. But by the uh by the time they were wrapping up, uh Tom Roy, who was the um executive producer at NBC at the time, came to me and asked me if I wanted to do some work with NBC Sports and join their on-air broadcast team. And so my first show ended up being that fall. Um the Churchill, I mean the uh Breeders' Cup was at Churchill Downs that year. And um my first network television show was the Breeders' Cup. Nothing like Baptist by Twitter. Five hours, seven races at that time. It was seven races. Um, yeah, just back to back to back. And um there I was initiated.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

All right, so I have to know this can't be easy. What was the craziest moment you've ever had trying to interview alongside a writer?

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Uh okay, well, let's start with the not easy part. After that first year's Breeders' Cup, and I'll try to make a long a little bit of a long story short, um, I thought this is really hard. It's a lot harder than it looks because they don't tell me what questions to ask. All they say is let's go to Donna. And so I was I all the same, I was still excited to see that year, um, that week's Breeders, I mean uh Blood Horse magazine, because at that time the Bloodhorse magazine would critique all the uh races or events that were on any major networks. And Lenny Shulman wrote the article, and then the article, um, without mentioning me by name, Lenny Shulman said, I do not understand why NBC continues to persist with these interviews from horseback immediate, no, I'm sorry, these fluff interviews from horseback in the immediate aftermath of the race. And I thought, okay, that was harsh. But I was like, all right, I need to be open-minded to this. And as a jockey, I was definitely used to criticism.

SPEAKER_04 13:06

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

And so I went back and watched the replays and I did think they were fluffy. There wasn't a single question that I asked of any rider that I couldn't have asked of any other rider in that race or any other rider on that day's card. Interesting. So my questions were along the lines of, you know, at what point did you realize you had the race one? Uh tell me about your connection with this horse, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

And so I thought, okay, how can I make this better? And I I realized that let's talk about the Kentucky Derby. Whoever wins the Kentucky Derby, it's gonna mean a lot to them.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Yeah, change it.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

But it's gonna mean some correct, but it's gonna maybe. Because if John Velazquez wins it, it's not a life-changing win for him, right? Um, but if he wins it for somebody who's never won the Kentucky Derby, that would probably be where I would go with that. You know, Johnny, you've already won three Kentucky Derbies, but this is picked somebody. Brendan Walsh's first Kentucky Derby win. Can you imagine what he's feeling right now? Can you talk about that? And so what I learned that I had to do was like figure out a way to make each interview unique to that person, because the only point of me being there on horseback in the immediate aftermath of a big race is to capture their emotion. And I can't capture their emotion if I don't have some idea of what's going on inside them. And so I'll my first question will never be tell me about your trip. Um, you know, when did you know you had the race one? I'll always try to get them to talk about truly what it means to them from their heart instead of what it means to them in their head. And um, so a lot of the preparation that I do is around understanding everybody's stories, the jockey's stories, the horses' stories, the trainers and the owners' stories, because maybe that horse was uh orphaned as a as a wea lane. And, you know, this was a horse who really was up against it from the start. And maybe that's the story, and maybe we want to talk about that instead. And so that's kind of how I prepare for it. I mean, I do understand the race dynamics, and I have a good idea. I mean, I can handicap a race, I have a good idea of who's gonna be in front and pull stock and who'll be off the pace. But for the most part, I try to zero in on what it'll mean to that person.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

That's fantastic. It's brilliant. That's absolutely brilliant. Have you ever had a moment where things just kind of went haywire that maybe maybe the listeners or the viewers didn't see and and kind of a behind-the-scenes story on that?

SPEAKER_02 15:34

I do have a moment that just happened at this year's Kentucky last year's, I'm sorry, Kentucky Oaks. Um I think it was three races before the Kentucky Oaks, was the first race that I was actually on air and on horseback, and the race was a mile and a 16th. And again, it was the first race of the day that I was on air on horseback. I had been on air already, but my horse uh was behind the starting gate. It's the same horse I've ridden for the last eight years at Kentucky. It's Laura Mokwett's horse, who's Ron Moquet's wife. Ron's, of course, a trainer. And um, his name's Sharman, and he's awesome. Love him, know him well, he's great. But he was really wound up behind the starting gate, which was unusual for him. And so when the horses leave the starting gate, I'll go to the right side of the starting gate and squeeze between the gate and the outside fence, and I'll follow the field away from there. But he was resistant and I was like, Come on, buddy, you have to do this for me. Like, we've got to go. And so I had to spur him a little bit, which I normally don't do. And so when I did, he took off and he was angry. And so he just took off at a fast speed. And I was like, that's great. As long as we're going forward, I'm fine with that. So we got around the turn and I started to try to slow him down a little bit, and he was still, he was going. And so I was like, all right, I'll give you another second. He's a quarter horse, so he's not gonna go forever. So then I tried again and I had to like sort of shake the bit in his mouth a little bit, and then my left rein came back to me. So my left rein, it didn't break, it came undone from where it hooks onto the bridle. Yeah, so now I have one rein, and I'm still going around the turn. Oh, and by the way, about this time my microphone falls out of my saddlebag, and now it's on the ground.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Yes. And so I'm like, okay, this isn't good. But I turn up the backside, and by that time the horses are already to the second turn. So I'm not gonna be in anybody's way. And there's an outrider sitting under the big screen at Churchill Downs on the back stretch, and he looks over my way. The field's just gone by, and he looks over my way, and then I see him, you know, turn around again and then look back again because I'm sure he's thinking she's going really fast for the pony, right? And so I, when he looks back again, I wave my hand and I'm like, hi. Um, and so he knows I need help because I've waved my hand. And so as I got close enough to him, he ran out there and I said, I don't have a left rein. And so he pulled me up from the bridle and I used the right rein. And so, yeah, that was a little hairy. And then we rode back to the outrider's barn and got another set of reins on my horse. I had to call my producer on the phone and say, Don't try to come to me for a post-race interview because I don't have a microphone and I don't have a rein.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

So, yes, those things do happen. And luckily, nobody watching the broadcast knew it was happening. And the next race, we were in good order.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

Oh, that's crazy. Don't somebody somebody without your skill set, I mean, that could have been a disaster.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Well, that's why it's important that whoever does that job has a lot of experience riding. Because to be honest, I wasn't even the least bit panicked. My first thought was, you're a quarter horse. How far are you gonna go? Right? Like you can go ahead, run. I can ride you as fast as you can run. But I also knew that outrider was on the backside and that uh I could get a little hand pulling him up. And even if the outrider wasn't there, he wasn't gonna go a whole lot further. But yes, it you'd have to have experience riding to, and so I don't know if you know this, Teague, but this is gonna be my last Kentucky Derby. Oh my god. My last preakness stake. Oh, did not. Oh I'm retiring after this year's preakness stakes. And so one of the things that Andy B and Cone is most likely gonna um build my saddle, and she did shadow me at Breeders' Cup this year, and and I told her like the two things that you have to remember. Number one, your number one priority that you have to remember is that everybody has the right of way on the racetrack besides you. Yeah. So I just have to stay out of everybody's way. And number two, be in position for the post-race interview. So I like to try to be behind the starting gate as the horses are loading and then get into position for the post-race interview. But that's not always possible, you know, especially if they're coming down the hill at Santa Anita. You definitely can't do both.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

And so you have to sometimes pick your spots. But um, yeah, it's it's been exciting.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

So I have so many questions here, and I don't I don't want to miss this one before I get into the weeds on some of these other ones. Talk to me about female jockeys, Donna, because that's something that I mean, obviously, when you were doing it, you're at the top. You don't see that a lot anymore. Is there a reason for that? Should we have more? Is it a gatekeeper thing? Talk to me about that whole dynamic.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Well, T, I think there's a couple things at play, and I don't think they're at all related to gender discrimination. I think if you look at American racing right now, the other thing you don't see a lot of is young men born in America coming up through our system. Great point. Right. And so we have when I was growing up and when my mother was growing up, we had an agrarian society. And so a lot of kids grew up on farms riding horses, and you just don't have that so much anymore. The other thing is that the young girls, the young ladies who do ride typically come from well-to-do families because it's not an expensive endeavor. So if you don't grow up on a farm, then you probably, if you're riding, you have a come from a family who has some money. And those kids, whether it's a female or a male, are expected to go to college before they make any career decisions. And if they're smart, they decide to become a doctor and then ride horses as a hobby rather than make that their occupation. Now we have that dynamic here in the United States, and simultaneously in many Latino countries, they have phenomenal jockey schools. Um, Puerto Rico, Mexico, a lot of these places, these kids grow up riding from the time they're, you know, they're they can get on a horse. And so they've ridden horses their whole lives, and then they go to these really phenomenal jockey schools that give them the kind of skill set that they need. And uh they come to racing in America. America as an apprentice really polished, much more polished than our apprentice riders are who've grown up in the United States. So while I would like to see more female riders in the United States, I don't think it has anything to do with gender discrimination. I think it just has to do with our the kind of culture we have now.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

Makes total sense how you painted that picture. And I'm glad to hear you say that. But yeah, that makes you're right. Because if you want to get into riding right now, it takes a significant amount of money. And um you talk about these schools, these jockey schools. I don't know that I we don't have one in the States, but I also don't know of one either.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

We do, kind of. We have the um, it used to be called North American Riding Academy, and then it got changed to something else. And now the name is so long that I can't even remember it. It's some sort of like technical bluegrass college, vocational school, and it's essentially based at the Kentucky Horse, not I'm sorry, not the Kentucky Horse Park, but the training center in Lexington, Kentucky. And they they actually a couple of the riders who Katie Davis and Dylan Davis graduated from when it was the North American Riding Academy. But I think that ultimately they were graduating so few successful jockeys that they made it um the North American Racing Academy. They changed it to that. And so then they were and they offer an associate's degree. It's a two-year degree program. But I think ultimately what it comes down to, Teague, to be honest, if I'm a if I'm a risk taker, I'm not gonna go spend two years to get my associate degree to try to gallop horses for Todd Pletcher and then eventually become a jockey. I'm gonna go ask Todd Pletcher for a job, right? And then I'm gonna try to become a jockey. And so I think it's just a different mindset in the kind of person who would go to a vocational school to learn to be a jockey versus somebody who will learn it the old school way, which is at the track.

SPEAKER_03 24:00

Makes perfect sense. Okay, I want to touch on your book. So you're the author of Inside Track, Insider's Guide to Horse Racing. Um, you had actually multiple editions of this. Was this a something you've always wanted to do? Was this a fun process for you? And how has the reception been?

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Um, it's in its fourth edition now, and that's only because it has to be updated continually. When I first wrote the book, Gary Stevens and Jerry Bailey were jockeys. Okay. And uh um there was no point system for the Kentucky Derby. So when I first uh I don't know if Jerry Bailey was actually still jockey, to be honest, but there are many who were that are now retired. And um the Ortiz brothers were definitely not on the scene yet. And so that's why it's required so many updates. I don't have to update every chapter, but I've had to update a few of them. Um, so I've published the published the first edition in 2010 because after I went to work for NBC, one of the things our producer would drive home all the time before we'd go on airs, remember it's a broad cast, not a narrow cast. I need for you to use terminology that my his name was Rob Hyland, that my mother Ann Hylan, who knows nothing about horse racing, is gonna understand.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

And so it really helped me to understand just how um, you know, inside our language is, we we talk in a way that we think everybody's gonna understand. Like let's just say I do a post-race interview with somebody and I say, oh my God, they went in 21, 43, you came from off the pace. Did you realize they were going that fast up front? Now you think about somebody who knows nothing about horse racing, they have no idea what I just said.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Clue, yep.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Right? Or if I say something like, you know, oh my God, he won the Kentucky Derby like secretariat. Well, they they also don't know what that means, especially if they've been born in the last 25, 30 years. And so, in any event, um, I kept thinking somebody needs to write a book with uh a glossary of terms at the back, but also just to explain all the things like how do you make a wager? How do you decide to make a wager? One of the things I say in the book, by the way, is that if you've never bet on horse races and you're gonna go to the races with your friends, don't try to beat the house because this house wasn't built on the backs of winners. You bet with your friends. And so you bet on who has to go get the car and pick everybody up, who has to buy the next round of drinks, who has to buy dinner, like all those sorts of things. Um, and so I wrote the book just to try to make horse racing more accessible. Uh, so it's not for somebody who really understands horse racing already, it's for somebody who's gonna have four friends come into town for the Kentucky Derby from New York, and they've never been to uh a major horse race. And so buy that book, send it to them in advance of their visit so they don't pepper you with questions throughout. Um, and yeah, again, I just felt like the book needed to be written. And finally it occurred to me nobody's gonna write this book. And so in 2010, I just sat down and I wrote out the the chapters, which essentially became my outline. And I really felt like from there the book just wrote itself because I knew what information I wanted to have in there. And about three or four years ago, I made the decision to donate 100% of the profits to the Thoroughbred Aftercare Alliance. And number one, I think it's important to support Thoroughbred Aftercare. But number two, I I had become reluctant to talk about my book because I didn't want to feel I didn't want people to think that I was, you know, like just trying to make another buck on the game on the backs of horses. When in reality, I was just trying to make the game more accessible. It's a lot of what Kenny McPeak has done with horse races now, right? Just try to make the game more accessible.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

And so that's why I wrote the book, and that's why it's in its fourth edition.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

I love it. All right, something else, and please forgive me if I I got this wrong, but I know that you are in an executive leadership role with Starlight Racing, and that you're a strong advocate for racing partnerships. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 28:06

Uh, two things, uh, but one thing is correct. I used to be in an executive role with Starlight. Now I'm a new client liaison for Starlight. Got it. And that started because when my husband retired in 2009, Jack and Lori Wolfe asked Frankie if he would be their blood stock advisor. And so he was buying horses for them until he retired from bloodstock agent in 2022. And so they asked me for like three years before I said yes, if I would go to work for them, but essentially as a new client, liaison, but also as, you know, to help them with marketing and communications. And I just said no for a long time because I didn't want another job. But then ultimately, um, I asked Jack Wolf one day, okay, so what happens if somebody says they want to join Starlight Racing? And he said, Well, I tell them to call me and I said, And then you give them your business card. He said, No, I don't have any business cards. And I said, Well, so is your number on the website? No, I don't think my number's on the website. I was like, okay, fine, I'll join.

SPEAKER_04 29:04

Okay, you need help.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Yes. And so it wasn't that hard to like move that ball forward a little bit. But now the one who handles most of the marketing and the communications is their daughter, Eleanor Wolf, who graduated not only from college, but also from the Goodolphin Flying Start program. And she is in a beautiful position to do what she's doing with Starlight Racing. And so I do still help with bringing new partners in because I think they're a good partnership. I like the structure of the partnership. I think it's fair to the partners. As you probably know, they play at the high end of the game. Right. And so it's not for, I also love my racehorse. I think my racehorse is great. Somebody can spend, yeah, I don't know,$89, maybe less than that, and own a piece of a racehorse. That's right. I think whatever you can do to help people get into the game at a level that's going to thrill them. So if you have a billionaire and you get him involved with my racehorse and he owns 10 horses at$89 a piece, that's still not enough risk for him or her to get excited, right? So if it's a billionaire who wants to get into the game or multimillionaire, they probably need something more like um Eclipse Thorbread, Starlight Racing. You know, there are I I think there's something at every level in this game for people.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

Donna, what what should a new owner understand before jumping in?

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Uh I think that one of the common pitfalls for new owners is that they feel like they've been, you know, really lucky and to and that's led to their success in whatever it is that's led them to be successful. And they probably don't give themselves enough credit for how much they know about their area of expertise, right? They've probably made a lot of their own luck. And in horse racing, you're not going to be able to make your own luck unless you understand the game. And so I think that's one of the great things about partnerships as a first level of entry, is that it allows people to get into the game with a minimal risk and learn more and more and more about the game every single day before they try to go it alone. Uh, we have some partners in Starlight Racing, Ted and Mary Nixon, who started it started with Mary getting in on Starlight Racing, and then she decided also to do Star Ladies Racing. And then her husband, Ted, came in on Starlight Racing and he brought his father in. And he brought his father in, Bo Nixon on Justify. And so the very first horse that Bo Nixon, who was 90 years old, owned was Justify. And of course, we we know what happened with Justify. And so now Ted and Mary Nixon are still Starlight and Star Ladies partners, but they also have their own racing partnership called Storyteller Racing because they feel like they now know enough to be able to hire their own bloodstock agent to do this or that. And so I think that that's the great thing about the partnerships is that, you know, a lot of people who are successful in other ventures think, well, I'm lucky, I'll go buy a horse. And if you don't understand the game and the people in it, you're probably not going to be as lucky in horse racing as you were in your career because you don't realize how much of your expertise went into that luck.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

All right. Awesome. Donald, what what is the most emotional or memorable jockey interview you've ever had? What's the first thing that comes to mind?

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Calvin Bro, 2007. I remember that one.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

I as soon as you say that, it's like, boop, yep, I got it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

I feel like everybody who saw that remembers that one. I don't think you can forget it because he was so emotional. Um, it was uh memorable for me for a couple of reasons. Uh, first of all, as you'll recall, the queen was in attendance. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

And uh that's right, huge racing fan.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

Yes. And um, that's not one of the reasons why it was memorable, but it did make it memorable for Calvin, and I'll get to that in a minute. But so when Calvin pulled up after the race, I had all this litany of questions I was ready to ask him, but he was so emotional. And he just started talking about his mama and daddy, and I wish they were there. And um, to be honest with you, I couldn't re- I didn't know if his mom and dad were not. I knew that for years they had been in a nursing home in Arkansas and he would go spend time with them in the winter. But at that point in time, I didn't know if he was saying, I wish they were here to see this physically, or I wish they were here on this planet still to see this. So I didn't know if they were even alive. Gotcha. And then luckily, after he said, I wish my mommy and daddy, my mom and daddy were here, he said, My brother Cecil Burrell will Cecil Burrell was a trainer at Churchill Downs. And I was able to seize on that and say, you know, speaking of your brother Cecil, you've worked on him since you were 12 and 10.

SPEAKER_03 33:47

Okay, I know the answer to this. I'm gonna go that way.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

He's he's like a father to you. And then that just, you know, it brought a flood of tears for Calvin and well of emotion. And then we just went on, we just went in his direction. And at the end of it, I threw it back to Tom Hammond and I said, as you can see, a very emotional win for Calvin today as he has tears streaming down his face. Well, after Calvin rides off, I'm thinking, I am so fired. I didn't remember a single question to ask him. And then after that, a lot of the NBC execs, uh, before I even got back to the trailer, they were on their way out with the police escort, but the cars hadn't moved yet. And two of them got out of their car to shake my hand and tell me what a great interview it was with Calvin.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

And I thought they probably didn't even see the interview. Like they were probably already in their car ready for the police escort.

SPEAKER_04 34:38

That's funny.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

So when Tom Hammond told me the same thing, I said, okay, what made the interview great? Because I thought I screwed up. And he said, No. And he said, What made it great was that it was conversational, that you let that conversation evolve, let Calvin sort of lead the way on it. And he said, and honestly, our camera guys hadn't zoomed in on him. We couldn't see that he had tears streaming down his face until you said that. And when you said that, he said, then I knew it. And our camera guys zoomed in and we could see it. And then the next week he was invited to um to the White House. Yeah. And then Tom said, That's prop, you're the reason he got invited to the White House because the queen was there. And then you mentioned the tears. And so, in any event, that is the most memorable for a number of reasons.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Well, and it made the whole world fall in love with him, too. I mean, that was sure that was huge. Okay. I'm gonna hit you with some kind of some, you've been so generous with your time, Jonathan. Thank you. I'm gonna hit me with some fast ones. Um, do you miss riding competitively at all?

SPEAKER_02 35:38

No, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

And why how come? Because of just the physical, it just takes a toll?

SPEAKER_02 35:44

No, because I really, really, really love riding fast horses. So do I miss riding fast horses and and being in that position where you know you're gonna win, and the horse literally drops three inches when it shifts into that high gear because it stragged and so much. I miss that a little bit, but I have never forgotten all the work, all the blood, sweat, and tears that it goes in to being competitive at the highest level in the sport, and I'm not willing to do all of that. And so for that reason, I have to say no.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

Okay, hey, honest answer. I love it. Uh, favorite track atmosphere Churchill Down, Saratoga, or somewhere else.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Uh Keeneland, Saratoga. My tie. Keeneland and Saratoga? It's it's a tie, yes.

SPEAKER_03 36:28

I love it. I've met you know, I've yet to be to go to Keeneland, which is crazy. I need to do that.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Oh, that is crazy. Yes, you yeah. Living in the middle of Kentucky. April 3rd. You gotta get over there.

SPEAKER_03 36:38

I will do that for sure. Um, if you could ride one race again, which obviously you wouldn't maybe, but what would that race be?

SPEAKER_02 36:45

It would be a race I would win. Uh, it wouldn't, you know, I never rode the Kentucky Derby. I have a little bit of regrets for never riding the Kentucky Derby, and one of them is because I may have had a chance or two when I was a successful jockey, but I thought those horses didn't have a chance, and so I didn't want to ride them, which I think is a basic reason.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

So you could have rode, but you didn't because you didn't want to lose.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

There was a possibility that I could have ridden Honor and Glory for Wayne Lucas, the year that Honor and Glory ran. Aaron Grider ended up riding him. I had been working him. Wayne wanted me to ride him, and I probably could have picked up the phone and called Michael Tabor and talked him into it because um, yeah, because I probably his his best chance would have been with me because I worked him in the morning, I knew him really well, but I also knew he wasn't going to be able to get a mile and a quarter. And ultimately, he went the fastest half mile of the Kentucky Derby to that point. And I think he stopped and ran last or second to last. And at the end of the day, I still justified it because I said if that was me, they would have just said that he ran off with the girl. Yeah and you know, she couldn't control him. But I don't think he would have gone that fast with me because I did know the horse. And I maybe would have got him along a little further. I mean, Aaron Grider is was a great rider, so not because I was a better rider than Aaron, but because I knew the horse better and the horse knew me. So maybe I could have nursed him along a little bit longer than Aaron had. He still wasn't gonna be probably even a top 10 finish. But so yeah, maybe I shouldn't have been so discarded that opportunity so easily. Um, but again, it it wasn't really an opportunity. The race, the horse wasn't really offered to me. Michael Tabor is based in England, and he uh they weren't used to, you know, Haley Turner wasn't a thing yet, Holly Doyle wasn't a thing yet, and so they weren't used to female riders competing at the top level there. Sure. And he just wasn't comfortable with a female rider. I think I could have talked him into it a bed tried, though.

SPEAKER_03 38:43

Awesome. Okay, one horse you wish you would have got a chance to ride.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

Oh gosh. Oh, justify, justify would have been a nice horse to ride. I mean, he was long after I retired, but God, what a beast. The first time I saw him at Churchill Downs, I in my mind going into it, I thought, oh, another one of these overhyped horses from California. And if Curling couldn't win the Kentucky Derby on little experience, what chance does this horse have? And then he walked out of his barn, and I was like, oh my God, I was blown away. He looked like a Greek Adonis in horse flesh. And yeah, just probably the most beautiful specimen I've ever seen. And there are a lot of beautiful specimens out there. I mean, look at sovereignty right now. Sure. But I would say uh justify, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:29

A lot of people say that about American Pharaoh, too. That's just a just a specimen to see.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

He wasn't um American Pharaoh was the the kindest, um I I guess uh most affable, if that's a word you can use for a horse. Okay uh horse I've ever met. And he, you know, obviously was ultra competitive, but he if you stood him next to sovereignty and justified he'd be third. Okay. He's not even close.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

Interesting. All right. Um last question. You've seen the sport from every angle jockey, broadcaster, owner. What does the future of horse racing look like? And what has to change for the sport to really thrive in the future, Donna?

SPEAKER_02 40:21

That's a great question, Teague. And I think you'd need a crystal ball to be able to answer that. You know, we've seen would would you have said 10 years ago that Heiss was gonna come along? Probably not. And now Heist is here. Um, but I I will tell you this. I asked Steve Asmussen a couple years ago because his boys are now into the sport. Well, Eric and Keith. And I said, Do you really like, are you confident that we're gonna be racing in 10 years? And he said, Oh, we'll always be racing. He said, We may not get paid for it, but we'll always be racing because somebody's always gonna have a horse they think is fast and they're gonna want to prove it's faster than somebody else's horse. So I don't know. I don't know what the future holds, but I'm I'm hopeful. And uh yeah, I think I think we have lots of opportunities and hopefully we use them wisely.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

Donna, thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it. Our listeners are gonna absolutely love this.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Well, my pleasure, Teague. Always a pleasure to talk about horses and horse racing, and nice to spend time with you.

SPEAKER_03 41:19

Thank you so much, and hopefully we get to do this again sometime.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 41:23

Awesome. Well, thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for listening to Horse Races Now. Hit that subscribe button, give us a comment, give us a like. We'll see you at the racing.