Is Kenny McPeek Retiring in July?! 👀 (Listen Until the End) | HISA, TVG Exit & Top Horses

Kenny McPeek is back in the studio—and this episode has EVERYTHING.

From a shocking retirement announcement (or is it? 👀) to major changes in the horse racing world, Kenny opens up like never before in this can't-miss episode of Horse Races Now.

We dive into:

• Kenny’s current health and how it’s impacting his day-to-day life
• His honest thoughts on HISA—and why he believes more solutions are needed
• The looming exit of FanDuel & TVG from horse racing and what it means for the future of the sport
• Why Horse Races Now could be positioned to step in and fill that media void
• Updates and breakdowns on his top horses and what’s ahead this season

And then… there’s the big moment.

Kenny hints at retiring this July— Or is it a different July?

You’ll want to watch this one ALL the way through.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

It's like a stock market in place. Morning mind. Morning mind up.

SPEAKER_04 0:30

Interviews. We've had the brothers on. We had to double meal. Please just come back. But Kenny is back. Kenny is back in studio. I know, I know you guys have been waiting. The questions have been coming. You guys have been very patient. He's had some health things, and we got a lot to talk about. What's up, my man?

SPEAKER_03 0:48

Oh well, we've been traveling a little bit. Um for most that know out there, I've had some health issues. Um I had a sec another surgery on March 4th. I think we may have discussed that to address some issues with my C567. Um a little beat up still. Yeah. You know, still trying to get my body in order. I mean, they went through the back of my neck and they went through a lot of muscles and nerves and everything like that. It's been um a little more complicated and more difficult to get over than I ever anticipated. So I do have a special announcement, but you're gonna have to wait till the end of the show to really hear the whole thing. I'm gonna I'm gonna retire on on July 1st. Oh my goodness. So um, so um I'm gonna quit training July 1st. But um there's a little added to that, and and um and you're gonna need to listen to the end of the show. And so we're moving in here into April. So we'll um we'll fin I'm gonna finish off that top that that that train of thought at the end of the show.

SPEAKER_04 1:47

All right. Sounds good. All right. Um Kenny, we got so much to talk about, man. Where do you want to start? I mean, the FanDuel news is huge. I mean, I uh what's that gonna do to the sport?

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Well, you know, look, um so I've been around long enough to remember when when on-demand services, which is actually the the foundation of FanDuel, and TVG evolved into TVG. Yeah. And then and then FanDuel acquisition as well. Um, yeah, I think it's I think it's a big deal in the sense that they had grown that that product and they had created a really good team of people. Agreed. Extremely talented people that were that we're all you know empathetic, sympathetic for about them losing their jobs. We need those people. There's some some incredible talent out there that's gonna be unemployed, and and that's a big deal for the sport, and they've done a great job promoting and um and and lifting the game. So the fact that FanDuel's not committed to to really promoting racing or at least being the media uh center of racing i is disconcerting. And and um, you know, we all are anticipating you know how that void to be filled. And the truth is is that horse races now can fill some of it, but we need um.

SPEAKER_04 3:09

Well, that's the question. And that's the question that keeps coming in. Can it? I mean, what where where can horse races now step up and fill that fill that gap?

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Well, when we first when we first launched, before FanDuel ever even bought into TVG, we we had uh 129 racetracks that we were streaming live. Um the problem with that is is that there were those that didn't didn't agree with us streaming for free. Um at the same time, there were streaming costs that went to went with that streaming, and that cost was burdened by us, right, and we couldn't carry that. And and subsequently we lost our streaming. Um if racetracks are out there willing to pay for the streaming, we're willing to show it. Yeah. We would like to have live, we would like to have replay, we want to be able to promote the sport, we want to be able to continue to innovate. Um, I think we've done a good job keeping our head above water since we lost video years ago. Um I know that people get irritated with the ads, but you can opt out of those advertisements. At the same time, we've got to figure out a way to keep the lights on until until we you know monetize horse races now, and it has not been profitable ever.

SPEAKER_05 4:18

Right.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

So the notion that Kenny McPeak has made any money on horse races now is so far from wrong.

SPEAKER_05 4:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Um so and I've I've been open about that here. However, we want to get those streams back. We want to be able to find a working relationship, whether it's with Roberts or Keeneland or whatever race course wants, and we can in many ways uh really help show the sport. We've got the vehicle to to do it. Um, but there's got to be a collaboration, whether it's with horsemen's groups or whether it with it's with independent racetracks. And um, I think that I've always said if you open the sport, it will grow. And yet there are those that don't want to see it open. They want to keep it behind a paywall, they want to keep it behind a um we they want people to subscribe. They're not new fans are not going to subscribe to a sport that they don't know anything about. Sure. Um you can't put it behind an ADW, and if you're not old enough or you're in the wrong state, your signal gets blocked. Um you can't those ADWs can't show their races internationally. Right. Why is it in this day and age that it's not really that difficult to be able to show horse racing and it should be easy worldwide? And the truth is that we're really interested in in getting um an international um uh data and international video. We want to be able to show any racetrack anywhere, anytime. It's a very altruistic idea. However, I don't think it's a big deal in this day and age with technology and streaming video and data. It's all out there, it's just a matter of marrying it all. So um, you know, the conversation came with Mike Rapoli this weekend. Mike says, I'm in. I'll help however I can. You tell me what you need, I'll help. You know, the guy's an amazing guy, really. Love him or hate him. He's an amazing dude.

SPEAKER_04 6:06

Kenny, sidebar real quick. Have you did you catch the USFL, the football team, the Louisville Kings that played last Friday night? No, no. I missed that. Well, that's his whole deal, right? He he he's he's behind that whole thing. And it was awesome. Yeah, it was well put together, super cool. Like, I have a lot of respect for what he does. Um, it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

Well, you know, look, he's outspoken. Um, you know, there are people that can't handle that. He calls a spade a spade. I like people like that. Yeah. Um, he doesn't beat around the bush, he calls it. You know, he and I had a conversation at Oakland last weekend. He he won he won the Arkansas Derby. The horse didn't run well. We'll get on that later. Okay. But um it's a um, he's a guy that really the sport needs. Um, you know, you so sometimes with Mike, he said, Mike, slow down a little bit. Slow down, calm, you know. Yeah. Matter of fact, I think like working together with with Mike, I I I would be excited about it because he's kind of like the bull in the China shop. And I'm probably more of the more like I think I can smooth some things out with some people with him. I'd like to work with him in some capacity, but he he he's he's an amazing guy. I I love his energy, I love his passion. He's got um you know a lot of people's attention out there, and he's got the money to be able to call BS on BS.

SPEAKER_04 7:21

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

You know, and that's what he I've told him. I said, Well, you know, we've run into barriers. He said, Whatever those barriers are, I'll help you. He'll run through them. I love it. Yeah, so so we'll see how that goes. Um, you know, and my Mike uh has got Pat Cummings. I've got to talk to Pat. I really need to do that this week. Um, but um there's some things, it's some wheels turning, um, you know, and and I think I think they're in a positive way, and we hate the the fan duel announcement, and they're uh out read last night that there was some notion that they were gonna try to t talk them out of closing it. I don't I don't know how well that'll work, but um you know sometimes a big company makes a decision, they make a decision and it's done. But um but horse races now could could pop possibly, you know, uh we could get a lot of eyeballs if we had the content.

SPEAKER_04 8:14

That would have been that is TVG. Yeah, so that's like the it's I know that there was two different networks there at times, but I mean I guess it's all going away.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

Yeah. No, it's it's it's yeah, if they if they shutter it, they shutter it. And and and back to my position on this. I really in the long run want to see horse races now as a nonprofit. I really I'm willing to give it to the industry to an extent. I mean, I've got I've got seven figures, I've got almost seven million dollars of my own money in it, and it's lost money. At the same time, I'd love to just if I could just get even and and give it to the sport and say, okay, you all utilize it and use it to grow the sport, and let's um let's take it from there. And and maybe we could get some return on our efforts on the other side of some profitability and then make it a nonprofit where really the greatest nonprofit in racing is Keeneland Racecourse. Yep. And so all their energy and money goes back into the game, and and I think that that HRN could do that and would do that. Yep. Like I said, I didn't do it to get wealthy, I did it because I thought a sport really needed to open itself up and grow itself. And you've said that over and over and over.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

I actually had a uh a friend uh stop me last night and said, Hey, something has to be done to bring back the the 25 to 35 year olds because they're not interested in the sport, and there will not be a future if we can't get them interested. This is how you have to do it.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

I've told the story about the 10-year-olds. The kids. Yeah, I mean, I've told the story about the kids looking at me, you made the app. I said, Yeah. Yeah and that's kept me going. So anyway, um, you know, let's let's just keep putting one foot in front of the other. We had a good Monday meeting with Chris Carper and Cindy Great House. We've got plans, we've got ideas. Um we we've got to um iron some things out with others in the sport. I'd love to think we could work with Roberts in some capacity. We're um, you know, we tried stef several different angles, but they, you know, they they have um and are the movers of the video. And you know, um if tracks want us to have it, then they're gonna have to change how that relationship's established. But um it's a um it can it very well can be an exciting time. I'm about problem solving. People say, Why are you doing that? I said, Well, but let's just put it this way I started in thoroughbred racing with nothing. I learned I knew how to read a pedigree. I loved the races and the horses. Nobody gave me any great horses to train in the beginning. But I tell you what, when I won the Oaks in the Derby, you could pretty much say I figured out how to get there. Amen. Right? And I'm very proud of that. Yeah, very proud of that. So it's about problem solving. I started as a young trainer with nothing. I worked through it. I've gotten, I may, I've hit the top of the mountain, you could say. Um my future as a trainer, and we'll talk about I'm gonna talk about further about that July 1st retirement. That's right. Um we will um between now and then we're gonna win some races. Yeah. And we're gonna win some nice races, and we've got great young horses. And at the same time, maybe my focus to shift into some other other problems that the industry has, right? I'm I'm all for moving into that. So we'll we'll we'll hit the let's just not forget to finish off the cut.

SPEAKER_04 11:30

All right, as of today, it's April 1st. So Churchill Downs has reached an agreement with HeISA. Um, there was a dispute of over it was almost six million dollars of unmaid uh unpaid assessment fees. Okay, what what's what's what's your feelings on on where HISA stands today and what it's doing to the sport?

SPEAKER_03 11:50

Well, let's talk about Churchill's position on this. Originally, this was put in there at per start, and then the the the they moved the target, they changed it to a purse value, a percentage of purse. And Churchill's position is we're more than welcome to pay for the per start. But just because our purses are higher doesn't mean we need to pay more than every other racetrack for the same tests. That seems fair, right? That seems fair to me. So I would say Churchill's position on this is is correct. Okay, why is it just because their purses are big, they have to pay more for the same services. Sure. And so I think they settled it in that regard. And yet, you know, for HISA, you know, look, we deal with all the bureaucracy that they put in front of us. We're dealing with all that. Um, but they're still not and and I would I would um and I have friends at HISA. I have friends that are working hard, you know, Lisa Lazarus, um, I've got you know others that are in the middle of all that. I have said all along, get the rules aligned, please. And get the financial responsibility rules aligned. If an owner's not paying his bills, address that. Amen. You're worried about the care of the horse. If trainer doesn't get paid, trainer can't pay the feed bill, feed bill, feed company doesn't want to bring the feed because the owner didn't pay. Correct. Address the owner. Yeah. All right. That's one thing they need to do. Meteorites. Okay. Licensing. For example, there was a horse scratched in Tampa last week or we a couple weeks ago. Why isn't there a national license? We're under federal rules now. Why is it that we still have to go state by state by state? Yeah, which is why isn't that we can't just can't just do a federal license? We have to be registered with HISA. And once we are, okay, pay a fee by state. Just give them a credit card number, run a card number. Done. Right? Instead, they scratch the guy's horse because somebody in Tallahassee wasn't in the office. That's one topic. Media rights. Okay, now here we are under federal rules, federal HISA's a federal operation. Yet there are many states, 13, 15 states we cannot watch racing, bet on racing in. And that's a media rights issue, or that's a okay, if we're n if we're now federal, why is it that states are blocking the streaming of video on ADWs, et cetera? Why isn't that you know Texas, if you could open the state of Texas, you could raise the Persh money in the United States a minimum of 10, 15, 20 percent. Absolutely because m more Texans use horse races now than any of our users. We have state-by-state analytics. Oh, yeah, sure. Texas is massive. But if we're federal, why isn't that HISA doesn't put any energy into saying Texas, let us have source we'll give you source market fee or source market um money and let your people bet. But it's politics. And once again, if HISA is going to be problem solver, I'm also for supporting um HISA if they solve these problems. Right. We go racetrack to racetrack, state to state, the rules are different everywhere. We've got a different licensing every year, every place we go. It's crazy. There's not another sport that's a national sport that deals with that, is there? No. No. I mean, i i if you can get really what I want to see Heise do is that I want to see him align these rules. I want to see him address media rights, I want to see them address licensing. You know, Mark Gilfoyle, he's in the middle of it too. Mark, let's get some stuff solved here. I mean, uh for me, uh th there aren't any really bad guys out there in the sport. I know we had a few years ago that the stock service and Navarro issues, but they studied that and that that whatever they were using was just all fluff. It was the equivalent of waters, what one one Kentucky State vet told me. However, you know, there there's an enormous amount of really, really hardworking, honest horsemen out there that are doing everything in their power to play the game straight. And they were doing that before HISA. Sure. And I don't think anything's changed since. Yeah. All these metformin positives, there's methamphetamine floating around everywhere, there's a lot of things that they seem to think that they're catching people, they're not. All right. And and we were pretty clean game before HISA came around. So back to Churchill's position, how much money do they need to do all this? If they've got, I don't know how what their annual budget is, from what I understand, it's 70 million, 80 million. Okay, fine. But get the things that I just listed done. Amen. Let's get that done. Then you've actually got my attention to say you're a problem solver. You know, I would love to get in the middle of their meetings and say, hey, this is these are the things you need to solve. Um, you know, as I people know I'm pretty well outspoken, I call it. It it it is what it is. But HeISA, for them to continue on, they're gonna really have to get into more problem solving.

SPEAKER_04 17:06

It's kind of like if you were, you know, in the MBA and you played in Florida, there was a three-point line, but then you go went and played in California, there's not. You know, just because you're in a different state. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Like i i it there should be a uniform policy for the whole country. I brought condition books in here before, and the front of the condition book are usually race track rules and state rules, and those rules just need to be aligned. If if uh if it's a heist of state, you know, we sit down and we we talk about what rules make sense everywhere and align them. It's not rocket science. No, it's not. It's a matter of pulling people together. But there's a lot of people that have to be pulled together to do that, and states might push back. But um anyway, but Churchill, I think they settled it and they think they settled.

SPEAKER_04 17:49

That's what it that's what I was reading. As of today, it's settled. Um the dispute was it was a ban there was a ban on wagering at its tracks. Um the deal was reached in late March.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

And I did think they did it by date, by races, number of races as opposed to the purse. Yep. Yeah, because it affects they have the biggest purses in the nation, all the racetracks. They're gonna be paying the biggest, why are they paying the biggest fees? But I I I took their position. And it seems to me like they sorted it out.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

Alright, let's talk some horses really quick. The the barn's been really strong over the last month. Um now it's a lot of the younger horses, uh, but there's been some wins at Oakland. Um, you're seeing some allowance horse wins, some young horses develop uh multiple runners hitting the board. Let's talk about some horses.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

No, the barn is not is not. No. Okay. So look, we have been on the top of the mountain for the last two years, and every every stable goes through this. You have for every peak, you have a valley, and for every valley you have a peak you're trying to get back to. And no, I'm not like my group of three-year-olds and four-year-olds are modest. Um I'm not, you know, look, but but I'm spoiled. Uh Torpedo and Mystic Dan for two years. So now here we here we are in in my viewpoint in a valley. Um, but the team's diligent, they're all doing a great job. Um that's not a reflection of them that we don't have you can't expect torpedo and mystic dan every year. And and rattle and roll went to Saudi and you know, he he he made a few dollars, I mean 300,000 over there to run normal race. He's back. Um, you know, Guldschold's a good solid older horse. Let's talk about my three-year-olds. It's been um, you know, unfortunately, we lost Liberty National to an injury. Oh um, and and more fortunately, that was complicated injury, and and he he was I didn't know that. Yeah, he he had a spiral fracture that we sent him to the clinic to get it repaired, and subsequently they had to put him down. And yeah, and that's that was a tough one because that was a really nice horse. Yeah. Um, blackout time, talk about the Arkansas Derby. The inside of that track, he was inside the whole trip from the three-hole, and I think it was heavy and deep in there, and then horses that day, in my opinion, were coming down the middle. And I think he got bogged down in there, and he's off the derby trail in the sense that we're not gonna, you know, we're gonna force that, we're gonna step backwards, and we're doing that with a lot of horses. We're gonna take a little step back, be, you know, I have choices when I'm chip picking races. I can be aggressive or I can be conservative. Sure. And I've been relatively aggressive in spotting some horses at high-level universe, ran fourth in the Louisiana Derby. Respectable race, made money. His physically, I think he's a horse that needs a little bit of a break. Um, we're gonna give him that. He's he's got the points to get in, but he physically is is let's just say he's played a lot of games consecutively and he needs to sit one out or two out. That's right. And he's gonna do that. Um, taken by the wind, ran respectable third, although the you know the winner was would pretty much dominated the fantasy. But she's third. You know, she's it's it's a million-dollar race, and she she cashed some checks for us, but I'm not going to pursue Kentucky Oaks with her. No, I think that she's a Philly that um with some more maturity, um, we're gonna, you know, probably point her towards maybe the black-eyed Susan or or maybe I might even try a grass before the season's out. She won her first few races though, and the sky was a limit there, right? Yeah, but those are two year old races, and and now that she's running against older fill three year old fillies, and the water's gotten deeper and the competition's gotten stronger, and um she still runs okay. Um her previous race before the fantasy, she came out with the thumps, which uh for those that know what the thumps are, it's got To do with the diaphragm and breathing, and she got a little bit out of rhythm in her breathing in the race. And then we um the third, you know, like I said, I think I'm gonna space her and we're we're gonna zig as they zag. We're gonna let those Oaks fillies, Kentucky Oaks Phillies do their thing. We're gonna go another direction, a little easier. If she jumps through that hoop, maybe we'll take those on the Oaksfillies on later in the summer. Got it. I'd love to think she's an Alabama Philly because she's one at one at um Saratoga. However, she's gotta graduate for some levels. Okay. You know, grade three, grade two, before you go into really deep water. But um and then and then beyond that, we've got um, you know, we've got some horses that we're probably gonna sell this spring. I've got a lot of trainers going on, sell me this one, sell me that one. Um, and what we're gonna do that. We're probably gonna turn, I'm gonna say 20, 30 horses over that are claimers. Wow. Yeah. And then that makes room for the youngsters that are that are in O'Cala, Silverleaf, and and allows them, you know, the opportunity to fit in, and then we'll start developing those young horses. And so it's not any different than a basketball coach, you know, football coach. One year you get great players and they make you look really good, and next year you've got modest, or maybe we didn't do a very good job. I I question that too. But we are um you know, we're regrouping and this is normal. Sure. And um like a bridge year. And and we and you're right, we all we've won 21 races this year, which is.

SPEAKER_04 23:31

And I've got a list here. I mean magical wish, classic time, gold's delight, honey's to blame, hucks agenda. There's a lot of wins here, too.

SPEAKER_03 23:39

Yeah, they're winning. They're winning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:41

Hence why I said it's been, you know, the barn's been strong last month.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

But I didn't nominate any horses to Keenland Stakes for opening week, and that was really rare for me. And it just didn't have the ones, the timing wasn't right, and I ran some at Oaklawn, I ran some at the fairgrounds first. And um, you know, that's just kind of how the ball bounces sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

Any of these younger horses I just I just mentioned, I mean, uh are you high on any of these? Who's that?

SPEAKER_03 24:06

So I mean You mean one at a time, I'll tell you everything.

SPEAKER_04 24:09

Okay, let's let's start with Magical Wish.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

They claimed him. So it's not my horse anymore. So not your man. They're running back. He ran fourth, fourth, or fifth the other day.

SPEAKER_04 24:17

Classic time.

SPEAKER_03 24:19

Classic time?

SPEAKER_04 24:20

Yeah, one in Oak Lawn, February 19th. Classic time, no. Not yours. All right. Well I'm I'm getting bad info here from uh from my uh uh what about Honey's to Blame?

SPEAKER_03 24:31

Honey's to Blame uh should have won last time, stumbled to his knees leaving the gate. That was unfortunate. He he was I think one to five. Oof, bridge jumpers didn't like me that day. What about Huck's agenda? Huck's agenda ran kind well we helped fill a race at the fairgrounds with for Scott Jones, and she ran flat. I ran her back quick. Um but we may try the grass with her, and I may even wait for Churchill for her, any other than allowance race. But she's won twice this year. So that's a good one. Yeah, she's good solid, Philly. Um Gould's gold. Gould's gold has you know, he he hooked magnitude, which who went on and won the Dubai World Cup. Yeah. Um and then his last his last race, he he was oh, I was gonna say a fair fourth. Um Shame he got nosed out for third to Skippy Longstalking, who's a beast. That horse is just better and better and better. But um Gould is gonna stay at Oaklawn and we are gonna point him towards a May 2nd uh listed stake down there. He's a lovely horse. It's just maybe a notch below some of these top graded horses, and we need once again, we need to zig while they zag and go at a little bit easier spot.

SPEAKER_04 25:42

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

Um, there's a couple other ones here. Uh 20 to black. 20 to black. Um 22 black. Yeah, no, he's a useful horse. I mean, he's gonna run maiden claiming Kentucky. Gotcha. Right to party? Right to party. Okay, we're in the wood this weekend. Um, you know, we're a long shot up there with Jimmy's got that horse. Jimmy Jerkins has got that horse up there in New York. And um, you know, that horse has got an outside chance. He's begging for two turns. Um if he gets a pace set up, and I don't think it's a stellar field, but if he gets a pace set up and they can time it right, that horse very well. I mean, you know, I might be in the derby with him if he jumped up and surprised.

unknown 26:21

See.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Now I've left Jimmy alone mostly in completely leave him alone up there in New York. He's only got a half dozen horses, and and uh he's he's had that horse some that's one of his original clients. Okay. Uh Chester Broman. Lovely man. Yeah. Has completely first class guy to have horses for. But that was one of Jimmy's originally client, original clients, and he brought Jimmy brought him into the fold. And um, I'd love for you know Chester to to win a race like that. And um I'm not gonna attend that one. I'm gonna go to Keenan for the weekend because I've got runners there, but um, you know, Jimmy's got that under control. Um there's a couple others here. Uh JJ Gray. Um JJ disappointed as the favorite at Turfway last time out. He was three to two and and ran for half mile, five-eighths, and and stopped. It was his first run over the synthetic, and then he's gonna come back. And it's of course it's one on the turf, he's one on the dirt. Um, but useful cult, but but I don't think he's high-level stakehorse. Last one here. Um, Rena's Revenge. Rena's Revenge is another New York Bred Philly for Harold Lerner, and she's won twice up there. The the race coming up this month for the New York Bred Phillies is a restricted stallion stakes race, so she's not eligible. Yeah. So we are putting her on ice a little bit in the sense that we're gonna give her a little bit of a break, keep her fresh, and then when the New York Bread open races come back up, she'll be in those steak races later in the summer, late spring summer. All right, let me hit a couple of these questions real quick.

SPEAKER_04 27:54

Um Blackout Times showed so much brilliance as a two-year-old in the breeder's futurity and has been throwing down absolute bullet works lately. Um, and this referenced something at March 14th, so that's a little bit of a time ago at Oakland. Um, since he's shown so such high natural, high cruising speed, but seems to flatten out late in these mile preps, have you considered cutting him back to a one-turn mile?

SPEAKER_03 28:23

No. Um, you know, his works have been okay. Um he worked against rendered judgment in his last work before the Arkansas Derby, and rendered judgment galped out in front of him. And render judgment actually ran really well last weekend. He was tough beat second. Yeah. Beaten ahead. But um, you know, the air gets thinner the higher you go. And the horse that renegade, the horse that won the Arkansas Derby, is a is a phenomenal horse. I mean, we were fifth. Um, I do think that he was stuck down inside. That's the only excuse I can come up with because physically he's fine. But um, you know, we're gonna we may we may get a little outside of the box with him. I may try him on the grass. Um he's got some turf pedigree on the female line. Um, the knot this time's run okay on it. Um, but he may show up in the American turf at Churchill, and that's a win in your end for the English Derby. So that would that that's a race that I've always talked about. I would love to have Orson, but he's gonna have to run exceptionally well there, and I I don't think it's out of the question that he would have a chance in that spot. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 29:29

Um I I I I'm not gonna pronounce this right, so you're gonna have to help me here. I'm assuming it's a jockey. Esquivel. Esquavel, Manny's. Okay. So so Manny apparently, according to this particular listener, I'd like to like to hear your thoughts on this. Um running every horse three to four wide turns. Everyone knows that's a death sentence. Gotta fire that guy. Kenny has to be furious.

SPEAKER_03 29:55

No, I think that I think that Manny is very professional, workmanlike. I think he's a very underrated rider. He he we have a good working relationship similar to Brian and I. Um, this is a guy I don't have to worry about. And he knows my horse is in the barn. Is he perfect? No. Um he went wide on a couple, but um Honey's to Blame was unfortunate. The horse stumbled, then he did go wide in the turn. Could he have found his way inside? Possibly. Um he doesn't do that regularly, in my opinion. Um you know, but you know, look, I watch all these races and and and I'm hypercritical, but I'm not gonna criticize him to the public so much as if I have a if I have a issue with the way he rode a horse, I tell them straight to their face right after we run. Absolutely. I mean, and then at the same time, you know, once it's over, it's over. You can't do a lot about it. If you're not happy with a rider, you change. But he he won a lot of races for us down there this winter. I mean, he he um he's a get things done kind of guy, and um any of them you ride regularly are gonna are gonna have races they don't do well in or they make mistakes. Yeah, makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

It's like a stock market for racehorses. Morningline.io.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

Universe. This is a horse that's knocked on the door at a high level, and he's very competitive at graded stakes level and just a good cult overall.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

Morningline.io buy, sell, trade, own the game.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

Um, how do you know when a horse wants to run to the front or come off the pace to close?

SPEAKER_03 31:29

Well, we train most of them in the beginning to come from off the pace because they typically you you don't want to be controlled by the pace of the race every time a horse runs. So if a horse is a is a known front runner that can't win unless it's unless it has the lead, that's kind of the worst horse to train because because then they know to send somebody after you. So we like to teach horses to settle, brake, settle, wait, and finish. And then you do, as a trainer, have to at some point say, okay, let's put this one on the lead because maybe they're not good at coming from behind. Got it. And so we will try that. So as a trainer, and I think I've said on this on you, you're gonna try horses short, we're gonna try them long, we're gonna try them turf, we're trying dirt, we're gonna try them on the pace, off the pace. And so you try a little bit of this, that, and everything. And then when you when you settle on that horse's level according to all the adversity or that it's been able to handle, then you start getting an idea of where you need to place that horse. And and um on occasion you get a horse that that that wants to be a front runner that you have to send up there because they're not very brave. Sure. And then sometimes when you send them up there and they quit badly, then you realize, well, maybe it wasn't about bravery, maybe it was just about talent. Got it. Is that a do you have a preference on how you like horses to run? I like to be I like to stalk. I I like for them to break, be able to stalk second, third, fourth, and and be able to position themselves to be able to make one finish. The deep closers are tough because they're they're controlled by a slow pace. Slow pace, deep closers get beat. When you have a favorite and he's a deep closer, all the other jockeys just slow the pace down and turn it into a sprint. And those horses are tricky. Um they they run well when they're the long shots because the jocks aren't paying any attention to them. They set a lot of pace, they set it up for the closer. Here we come.

SPEAKER_05 33:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

So um I've won some big races doing that in the sense that they ignored me and then and then we came. Rattle and rolls a horse when there's a pace in the race, he runs well. If he's the favorite and there's no pace in the race, then that then they slow it down and they make it hard for him to get there. So those are the dynamics of timing and races and and uh pace of the race. All right, let's talk about this July retirement. Um July 1st, 2034. April Fools, gang. April 30, uh 2034. Here's my math, okay? And look, a lot a lot of guys that that I'm I've worked with and raced against over the years have retired recently. And there's not gonna be any surprises with Kenny McPeak, okay? 2034, I will be 71 getting ready to turn 72. Okay. Um I've got a fantastic team and set up right now. And in 2034, my daughter will have graduated from high school. My mortgages will mostly all be paid, and physically I will be ready to call enough's enough. Yes. Now, when I when I quote unquote quit training, I'm not gonna be, you know, look I'll still manage the business. I'm gonna still buy horses for people, I'll still give them advice, I'm gonna find a young trainer, actually might have several that I say, okay, you work within the McPeak Racing operation, I'll do the buying, you handle horses and clients and such. We can still handle the business. But me as a program trainer, I I've I've I'm in stone. The end of June 2034 will be done. Yeah. And that way I can get through that triple crown, yeah. And and then, you know, turn it over to somebody that wants to see their name and lights. I've had my name and lights plenty. Um, I think uh, you know, that what's that eight eight years? Yeah. I think that's a good good eight years. And you know, if I can as long as physically my body holds up between now and then. So um hopefully those that watch the whole whole podcast today. I gave you a reason to watch the whole thing, right? It's July 1st, 2034. I love it. And so there won't be any idea or or or people aren't gonna have to guess why I stopped. They're not gonna have to have any idea other than I planned this a long time ago. Yeah. That'll be just under 50 years training horses. So we gotta get you an English Derby before then. Well, you know, I my my goal is to do, you know, kick some tail between now and then, and and um I think that's that's a good time to call it a career. And uh Annie would be off to college by then. And that's right. Like I said, the m the mortgages, I think most of the mortgages will be knocked out, at least I hope so. And um, I think it gives me gives me some direction, something to point towards. You know, I like to I hope my health holds up and I hope I can physically do this. And you know, as you can I'm still stiff. I mean I can't you can tell I cannot get comfortable in this thing whatsoever. And and I'm uh you know, I'm hopeful that in the next two, three, you know, six months it it it rectifies itself and I'm pain-free.

SPEAKER_04 36:45

Last question, and and kind of forgot about this or would ask this earlier. When we were interviewing Doug O'Neill, who was awesome, by the way, um he he talked about how he likes to go to the yearline sales and buy horses, but he says he he he feels like he's not as um experienced at it as like as you would be and probably not as good at it. Does experience matter at those yearly and sales?

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Absolutely. Yep, absolutely. I'm thrilled that Doug and Donna and others have come on. DJ. Um, you know, I'm fortunate because I'm a Kentucky-based trainer. Those sales are right here in my backyard. Yeah. Doug, it's different. He has to come from California, he has to lodge up in a hotel. Um, if he's gonna work every sale, logistically, that's really hard. He's got to leave his stable. I'm in town. You know, my farm backs up to Phasick Tipton. I'm I'm 15 minutes from Keeneland at most. My home here in Louisville can get me to phasic in 50 minutes and Keeneland in 55. Right. Um, he doesn't have that luxury. So I do think that positioning uh me, me being a Kentucky based trainer, Kentucky horseman, Kentucky resident, is different than Doug. Yeah. And Doug's brother's brilliant, brilliant agent, Dennis.

SPEAKER_04 37:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

I mean he's he's brilliant. So Doug's Doug's got his own man out there anyway, and he's bought a lot of really good horses for a lot of nice people.

SPEAKER_04 38:05

Well, I was just kind of curious curious if that experience, because he said, hey, listen, Kitty's got way more experience than me, which makes him better than that at but better than better than me buying horses. I was just curious if that mattered. And you obviously you think it does.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

Well, when he was young, when he was a young trainer, he was probably looking at claiming horses or getting horses purchased while he was on the west coast, and and to to source your horses that way is different. Um I I went through that stage at one point in time. But every horse you handle, you have to learn from. You have to look at them. You know, look, when whenever somebody sends me a horse, the first thing I do is I say, My office, bring send me the pedigree on this horse. I want to see what am I looking at? Am I got I got top line speed, I got turf, dirt, uh, is there any class in the family? Right. And then I start looking at the horse and then putting together in my mind what kind of horse I think that is can be. And then um, then after that, you you know, once you get into a work routine and a pattern, then that horse's level will adjust itself. Yeah. And um, like even today, I I've got a client I just left a message for, and and I haven't been around him. Um, and we have a filly named Maisie Blue, and we are this is a sound Philly, but she's just not very talented. And that happens. And and um I'm gonna help him exit strategy. I've as I've said repeatedly, I don't worry about my win percentage, I worry about helping people. That's right. And so his Philly, she's not very talented. She needs to find the easiest level we can find, and we need to sell her. And so we'll help him do that. And that's the process on each and every horse we get. Yeah. It's not any different, it's not rocket science, in my opinion. It's just work, and it's, you know, um, you know, we're we're I think we're right most of the time, and we're rarely wrong, but we're wrong on occasion. Sure.

SPEAKER_04 39:53

Yeah. Um, I did you hear Donna? This is her last uh Oaks and Derby. She's retiring this year. Did you know that? Yeah, she announced that on our show.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

No, no, she announced that on our show. You know, I love Donna. You know, um people don't realize, but the first stakes winner I ever had in my career, Donna Rode. Really? She didn't tell us that. Oh, Donna, come on now. Really? Yeah. She didn't. She didn't talk about that. Um, Donna won a stake for me at Canterbury Downs in 1989 on a Phillany Miss Echo. I drove from Lexington, had her stable to Keeneland, and I drove up to save the owner money on a plane ticket. I didn't realize how far it was. Right. And I got there and got f Philly was settled in. She came up on a truck a few days before me, and um my assistant Jane was there, she handled her, and we got there, and I was I was tired from the drive, and I I actually got spun by the agent. I was supposed to have um, I was supposed to have oh um Scott Stevens on the horse. Okay, and Stevens agent spins me to ride another one and then says, Oh, well, I've got this girl Donna Barton. And so we put her on, and so I got in the paddock and I said, Donna. And didn't never met her before. Okay. Um she's always been a very pretty girl, woman, just beautiful woman person. And I said, Listen, do not move before the quarter pole. If you move in the middle of the backside or even in the middle of the turn, she'll quit. Do not move before the quarter pole because she will stop. And if you do that, I'm gonna kill you when you get back. Because I just drove 17 hours to get here. And I said, if you screw this up in a minute and 20 seconds, I am gonna be pissed off. Do not move before the quarter pole. Okay. She was like, uh Did she follow the instructions? Yes, she did, and she won. Oh, love it. Yeah. But she was a filly that if you let her run down the backside, she would run for a quarter of a mile, then she would stop. Got it. But if you held her, held her, held her, held her, held her, and waited and waited and waited, and then you like almost like a slingshot, and you saw the white of their eyes, then you let her loose the last part of it, she'd sprint home. But if you let her go early, she would flounder home. But yeah, we she and I laugh about that. And then subsequently, she came to Kentucky in the early 90s, and I rode her in Kentucky. And then she was a heck of a jockey. Yeah, she's a very good jockey. Well, she's just really good hands. I mean, she'd sit on a horse and she had really, really good hands. Um, some people think the jockeys need to be strong. No, I think they need to be savvy. Yeah. And they need a Brian has those those really soft hands, but but when Donna was in her prime, really soft hands. So I went a race at Turfway and I'm in the spitbox with Wayne, Lucas. Yep. Who she wrote for a ton. Well, you know, why? Because I told him. He said, he said, what do you think about that girl? And you've been riding her a lot. I said, yeah, Wayne. I said, um, no, look, she does a great job. She's she's got a really good touch with the horse, and um, no, she's she she's gonna give you every chance she she can. And and uh he started riding her, okay, and he put her on the best horses she ever rode.

SPEAKER_04 43:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:09

And um, you know, it's you know, Wayne and I even then I was how old was I? I was I was in my early 30s then. Wow and Wayne and I talked talked even then about things, but he would ask me, you know, what about you know, what about this, what about that? He he he was inquisitive even even um you know when I was younger. Uh I got a lot of really good memories, you know, talking to Wayne. Love it. Yeah. But I I I told him, I said, yeah, ride her, she'd do a good job. After that, I couldn't get her. Now yeah, I was riding her, I rode her on a horse named Car Dealer. She was supposed to ride Tahana Run in the um cradle, and we rode her on another horse in that race, and he didn't run any good. She was mad because she wanted to ride Tahana Run. But uh wonderful person. Yeah, her interview was great.

SPEAKER_04 43:52

I've I've actually had several comments from there saying, Oh man, we love the daughter. Very very disciplined.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

She's very disciplined about her health. She's You know, very, very astute about the sport and she's great at what she does.

SPEAKER_04 44:04

The interview, I mean, it's and we got into that, which was cool for me. So we got into the whole kind of interview process and what she's thinking about and doing. I thought that was really cool.

SPEAKER_03 44:12

Yeah. She tried to tur turn me. Actually, she she said uh one time I was down at Ellis and I ran a horse, and the next day it was Sunday, and she convinced me to go to church with her. Really? And I went. I actually didn't have any clothes. I had to go buy a pair of slacks to get into church or to go to church. So I went to church with her at Ellis Park, and I don't know if we went in Evansville or Henderson. Donna might remember that. But that's yeah, but um, yeah, she thought I needed a little religion. Anything else where we get out of here today? I don't think so. April Fools. April Fools. July 1st or June 30th, 2034. I'm gonna I'm gonna step step back. It's a long time, but anyway, um little April Fool's joke there. Love it. Rock and roll. All right. See you at the races. See you at the races.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

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