Getting Unstuck: How Obstacles Become The Path To Your Life’s Calling with Ben Hummell

What if the hardest seasons in life and along the mental health recovery journey aren’t detours but doorways? We sit down with depth psychotherapist, coach, and author Ben Hummell to unpack how identity, transitions, and purpose intersect—and why your most stubborn obstacles may be pointing you toward your life’s work. 

In this episode Ben and I discuss the following:

1. Navigating identity struggles

2. Handling life transitions

3. The "wound drive" versus the "genius drive" and why both matter

4. What it means to feel stuck and why it isn't as bad as it may seem

5. Practices for getting "unstuck" in life and recovery

6. Essential tips for finding one's purpose and life's calling, one's "Genius"

By the end, you’ll have a language for your inner drives, a way to inventory your brightest moments, and the courage to outgrow identities that no longer serve. Subscribe, share with someone in transition, and leave a review telling us the micro step you’ll take today toward your genius.

Learn more about Ben and his work at https://www.thegeniusway.com/

Disclaimer: Guest views and offerings are their own. Any links, resources, or services mentioned are provided for convenience and informational purposes only. Please use your own judgment when exploring or purchasing anything. We appreciate our guests for sharing their insights and experiences.

*AI was used to help with the creation of the episode title and description

For more information about the Five Building Blocks of Recovery and/or to contact Jared, go to Five Building Blocks of Recovery (thefivebuildingblocksofrecovery.com)

Transcript

Welcome and Episode Focus

Jared 0:00

Welcome to today's episode of the Five Building Blocks of Recovery. In today's episode, I'm going to be interviewing Ben Hummel. But before I introduce Ben, in today's episode, we're going to talk to Ben about finding one's purpose, especially for those in recovery from a mental health condition. This includes navigating identity struggles, handling life transitions, getting unstuck in life, and of course, finding one's purpose or life's calling. Ben Hummel is a licensed depth psychotherapist, coach, author, and creator of The Genius Way, a life skill system that helps people of all ages and backgrounds to uncover and express their own unique gifts and callings for a more fulfilling life. For decades, he's guided individuals through identity struggles, depression, anxiety, and life transitions, helping them unlock their true potential. At the age of 49, Ben faced a deep spiritual crisis that forced him to question everything he had previously concluded about his life. In his search for meaning and clarity, he discovered the ancient concept of genius, a life-guiding force unique to each of us. That realization changed everything he understood about his journey. And now he helps others uncover their own genius, reclaim their life purpose, and step into the life they were meant to live. Welcome, Ben. Thanks for being here today.

Ben Hummell 1:42

Hey, Jared, thanks for having me.

Personal Identity and Mental Health Struggles

Jared 1:44

Absolutely. So let's just jump in because we've got a lot of great topics to cover. Okay. Uh in the introduction, I mentioned identity struggles. And that's something that really interests me because as somebody in recovery from a mental health condition, I've definitely seen that in times in my life when I don't have a solid sense of self, sometimes my anxiety gets worse and my mental health gets worse. And life just feels a lot harder. And so, can you tell me what do you think about the connection between mental health struggles and personal identity?

Ben Hummell 2:18

Yeah, so you know how this life is kind of set up. We'll just do a big, big overview of this. Um for every individual, um we kind of need to identify with our life as it is, regardless of what's happening, in order to just grasp, you know, where we are in life, where we're going, you know, what we're needing, what's uh, you know, what's our our, you know, not our life purpose, but like our our function. What are we doing? Right. So throughout life, we we we tend to um kind of identify with something, and then a trauma happens, you know, addiction, a mental health issue, something happens, it shakes us loose of our identification, and then the effort is to kind of re-identify with something that is more appropriate for that time period. You know, so it's like a palm tree shedding its leaves and it keeps getting taller. Um, our crises and even our traumas are sometimes needed to grow and to you know shed an old identity, let's say, that has become too small for us, that without the disturbance, we would never have uh uh reached for a new identity. Does that make sense?

Jared 3:39

Yeah, absolutely. It makes a lot of sense. For example, I mean, when you say that, what comes to mind for myself is that, you know, as human beings, we can sometimes get comfortable. We can sometimes get comfortable with our life as it is, with the status quo, with maybe we're not living the best life, but it's it's okay and we get used to it, and then something shakes us out, and then suddenly our identity is uncertain, and we have to figure our way through that because of the trauma, because of the anxiety, whatever it else may be, but there's obviously a huge opportunity in that as well, right?

Obstacles as the Path to Growth

Ben Hummell 4:14

Oh, yeah. Not only is it an opportunity, um, it is it's necessary. Uh, there's an old um saying or idea that the obstacle is the path. So if you ever want to know what it what you need to grow, you just have to look and see where you're stuck, where you're having the problems, right? Because right there is exactly by by working that muscle to overcome that difficulty, is exactly what you need to grow. It it makes me mad that it's that way. It sucks, but it's absolutely true, you know. Um, so that you know, that's like a a real important idea here to to learn as we're like re-identifying with something appropriate for where we're at, to learn that our obstacles are not like um not punishment, they're not bad luck, they are, you know, I think you just said it, they're opportunities for growth. And again, as much as I hate to say it, it's not fun. Um, when you use those muscles to kind of grow in that way, um it deepens you and you develop different qualities that you would never would have been able to develop otherwise.

Jared 5:40

It's yeah. Well, when you said that what kind of what I what makes what it makes me think of is the path creates the warrior, the the path itself, the obstacle itself is actually the key to finding a new identity, yeah, in a sense.

Navigating Major Life Transitions

Ben Hummell 5:53

Right.

Jared 5:54

So let's talk about uh life transitions as well. And because I I can I can share with you, Ben, that with my mental health journey, you know, for the first 22 years of my life, my job in life was student, right? Which means you go to class, you take tests, you write essays. You know, I was particularly, I had a particularly good memory and I'm very good at research. So I knew my lane, I knew what I was supposed to do. And then when I wasn't when I wasn't in school, I had friends and could hang out. And then suddenly college ends, and I'm left without any structure or direction in my life. I didn't want to do anything with my major. And I come back home to my childhood home, and I I kid you not, over the next three years, my mental health just deteriorates completely. Uh, I feel hopeless, suicidal, eating disorder, depressed, socially isolated, and everything just gets worse and worse and worse because I didn't have a next step after being a student. And but of course, life transitions don't just happen after college. You have the midlife crisis, and you know, or people get fired from their job and suddenly they're wondering what to do with themselves. And, you know, I've just seen in my work and my own experiences amongst all the advocates that that life transitions can be incredibly hard to navigate as well. Maybe in part because of maybe our identity is shifting too. And so how can people, when they're going through a life transition, regardless of the age or the circumstance, how can people, how can they navigate these life transitions in a way to promote better mental health and better resilience, which is also a buzzword that I love?

Ben Hummell 7:39

Well, yeah, yeah. So that's a great question. And you know, whatever we're going through, whatever experience we have, there's always an identity issue with it. And so we're not one thing from birth to death. We're many, many, many things, you know, and that's one of the reasons why hopefully we have long lives is so we can keep, I don't want to say reinventing ourselves, but keep discovering different aspects of ourselves that are meant to be expressed at different stages of our life, right? And so to navigate a life transition, you have to at least be familiar with, if not embrace, the idea that I need to look forward rather than backward. Because the the the panic that sets in about when you lose a loved one or uh a long-term situation like you're talking about disappears, or even if you know, you lose a pet or you move or whatever, anything like there's as many life transition um and you know protagonists as there are people, and you don't get to say what should be traumatic for whoever, it doesn't matter, it's just what it is, right? So any um any kind of transition, there is a tendency to look back, to kind of like, no, let me stay where I was, and like you said about your situation, you know, you didn't have an identity going forward, and that's you know, usually the case. We don't like to pre-plan our next uh thing that we're identifying with, but we have to do it sometimes out of necessity, right? But if you can become familiar with the idea that we are supposed to change as we grow, we're supposed to have experiences that seem to kind of rip us away from our previous identification, and that's not a weird thing. And if you look at it, you know, I would say at least 95% of the time, things turn out pretty pretty good. You're gonna have countless stories. I'm sure if you're gonna be interviewing people for a long time, you're gonna have countless stories of people going through hell and coming out of it better off from having to have gone through it. Right? Um, so anyway, it's in a nutshell, it's you know, watching how much you are looking back or trying to stay rather than moving forward, if that makes sense.

Jared 10:19

That makes a lot of sense. I full disclosure, I'm somebody who gets nostalgic about the past. And maybe too much sometimes, yeah. Where I think about the past and I'm recreating it in my head as if it was perfect, even though it of course wasn't.

Ben Hummell 10:39

Right, right.

Jared 10:40

But it's hard because we do tend to look back at the past and we do tend. I've had moments where I'm like, I wish I could just go back to that time in my life. I feel um so unsettled right now, and I feel so unstable right now, and this is not fair. And I just want to get back to that comfort and that certainty, and it it's funny too. It all goes back to identity as well. Um, yeah, maybe kind of a running, a running line throughout this episode. Absolutely, yes. Which is identity.

Ben Hummell 11:10

It's identity, that's right.

Jared 11:11

Absolutely. Um, but it sounds like the main thing is to embrace it, to not look back, and to realize that our identities are gonna be shifting through the course of our lives, and it's not something bad that's suddenly hitting us or happening to us, it's a part of life to embrace.

Ben Hummell 11:56

Yeah, yeah. And you know, so if you can get comfortable with the idea that it's gonna suck for a minute, you know, it's not supposed to feel good because if it felt good, like you were saying, you would just stay there, and somehow life is asking us with these transitions, no, there's more for you.

Wound Drive vs. Genius Drive

Jared 12:15

There's so there you go. That that right there, that is that is a beautiful little uh blurb. There is more for you in the future. You can't see it right now, see it yet, but there's more for you in the future, and that's something I think if people can remember, uh, it's like, oh, there's more for me, and it's gonna be good, and it's gonna be juicy, it's gonna be fun. But I just have to get through this difficult period, this difficult life transition.

Ben Hummell 12:41

Yes, yeah.

Jared 12:43

And so, you know, I think another thing, maybe through the life transitions as well, and in recovery, something that I think I've gotten stuck with is this difference between healing wounds and expressing genius. And obviously, genius, I mentioned in the intro as you described it, is a is a life guiding force unique to us, to each of us, that kind of pushes us forward. Um and kind of in terms of looking back or going forward, there's there's the part of healing and recovery that's healing our wounds, maybe trying to fix certain things and overcome traumas, but then there's also expressing genius, which is, in my understanding, is like the moving forward and creating something new and something beautiful. And I can just share on the on the negative side for myself, one of the biggest mistakes I made during that life transition after college was I I started to become aware of my wounds. And instead of trying to think forward, like you said, I was just fully fixed on what was wrong within myself, on the hurts and and and stewing in the hurts. And so can you talk about and I look back, and that was one of the biggest mistakes I ever made in my life was that was that focus, that too much hyper focus on on the wounds.

Ben Hummell 14:10

Right.

Jared 14:11

But can you talk about the difference between healing wounds and expressing genius and the two ways of expressing ourselves, the wound drive and the genius drive?

Ben Hummell 14:22

Yeah. So, you know, drive theory is basically um a drive is like picture like a wound up spring that has like when you release it, it has the kind of this energy to kind of keep going. When we have those um kind of centers of wound up energy, expressive energy within us, uh, the two main ones that I identified are the wound drive and the genius drive, right? So the wound drive is something's been hurt, something's been wounded, and there is a bunch of energy stored up to heal, fix that, to return to homeostasis, right? So that's one of the main ways that people express themselves is from I need to heal this, and that is my priority, right? And some people can spend their whole life doing that, and it and you know, that is mostly the work of a psychotherapist, you know, or a doctor, or it's like healing the wounds, and that's very important. And, you know, it's uh, you know, it's necessary, really necessary, right? So the trick uh or the problem comes in when we over-identify with the wounded part of ourselves. So I'll give you an example. Um, for a minute, we have to identify with the wounded part. So let's say you're going along your way, and then uh you fall off the curb and you fall over and you break your arm. Okay, all right, we need to deal with uh now my arm is broken, now I've got to do something about it. So I have to identify with like I'm the guy that has this broken arm. So I'm going to the hospital, I'm gonna get it set, get a cast, and for the next eight weeks, I'm gonna be very careful with it. I'm identifying with it to grasp, okay, this is my situation. Right? But once the cast comes off, it's time to start to disidentify with the person who has the broken arm. Okay, so that's one thing, you know. So identifying for a minute is necessary, like is in any trauma. Oh, my wife left or my husband left or I got cheated on or something. Like, okay, I gotta grasp this. Okay, what do I do as this person? What are my actions? What's the best way to deal with this? And then after after that gets resolved, it's like, okay, time to move on and disidentify. So that's one side of it. When you when it comes to expressing genius, genius is um very interesting thing because um we are born with this set of callings and expressive leanings, and there's a there's a bundle of energy that are that's just for expressing ourselves. Okay. And this expression of the genius is um, you know, everybody has it, everybody has this level of of energy, uh, and it exists in a certain, I'm gonna call it like a certain plane of our consciousness, where unlike the unconscious, um, this plane is called, I call it the prima conscious, and it's just a repository of expressive energy that contains our particular genius gifts. Okay, this expressive energy is totally different than healing a wound, it's only there for expression, and it's only there basically to create something new. And there's a feeling that comes with this, like, like you know, I I know I can I can sense that you really like doing this podcast. Am I correct?

Jared 18:09

Of course, of course.

Ben Hummell 18:10

Yeah, you're you're you're showing interest, you're like, wow. So within this, I can guarantee there's some wound-based stuff from trying to heal a wound. There's also some genius in there for like wow, I can be really helpful to other people. That's kind of exciting and really like you know, uh rewarding, right? So in in your particular one, they're kind of close together, and both things are happening at the same time. It's not always so, okay. But the main uh reason to differentiate between these two drives is is you know, one wants to heal and come back to where I was before I got wounded, the other one wants to create something new, and the newness is like this is your job, unique in all existence. No one is going to be able to do that expression for you. You have to do it. You're the only one that can do it. Right. And there's a certain existential responsibility that comes with that. It's not heavy, but it's you can feel it. You can't like, this is mine to do.

Getting Unstuck and the Value of Being Stuck

Jared 19:20

You can feel something pushing you forward. Right. Right. Right. Which is interesting because my fifth building block is expanded self-awareness and following your intuition. And for me, intuition has always been that guiding force of this is what I should be doing. Right. This is what I should be doing. And so, you know, as you kind of talked about, you you made the great analogy of a broken bone or a broken leg, for example, and how you have to go to the doctor, they've got to, you know, they do the surgery, they they they fix it, they give you the cast, you wear the cast for eight weeks, you know, you avoid contact sports, etc., etc. But then at some point the cast come got has got to come off and you've got to keep keep living. And you know, I think especially for myself being in recovery from a mental health condition, it's easy to just get mired and like stuck in stuck in in the the wound drive.

Ben Hummell 20:21

Yes.

Jared 20:21

And you know, but you but as you said, like there comes a point where okay, we've done everything that we can to deal with the trauma, to deal with the wound, to deal with the life event that throws us throws us off. Yes. And now we have to kind of move forward in a way. So for people that are stuck, maybe it's being stuck in the wound drive, maybe it's just being stuck in in general, in life. Right. How can people you know, and also another thing I'll say about being stuck is I've seen over and over and over again for those in recovery, and especially myself, sometimes because the traumas are so heavy or things are so heavy, there's this hopelessness, helplessness, existential despair that nothing is ever changing, life is not moving forward. So, like, how can people, whether they're stuck in the wound drive or stuck in something else, how can people, how can people get unstuck? And also, what's the value in being stuck? Because I know you and I talked about that as well.

Ben Hummell 21:26

Yeah. So, you know, let's start with the value of being stuck. So, you know, to I mean, there's a zillion people talking about how to get unstuck, which shows you that it's kind of like the human condition. I mean, it's a big question, like what is God? Right? It's a big question. And anybody that says, you know, this is exactly how you become unstuck, you know, they're they're selling you something that they don't really have. There's there's like different angles to approach this, right? And so my angle is this we have to um see what our identity, what our let's see, what our relationship with stuckness is. Like, so I choose to see when I'm feeling stuck, I choose to see it as all right, if stuckness was my nature, this would feel fine. But it it doesn't feel good to be stagnant and stuck. So that shows me. That some part of me doesn't want that stagnancy, right? It wants movement, it wants flow, right? So that's the good news right in the beginning. So if you feel stuck and you feel bad about being stuck, it shows you it's not your true nature, and your effort has to be like, okay, let me move out of this by whatever means. Like right now, you and I are talking about this means, and whoever's going to be listening to this is going to be exposed to this as part of their thing. Some people will never hear this podcast episode, and they'll they'll be gravitating towards another way of doing this, right? So that's the first thing. What's my relationship to like stuckness? Okay. The second thing is um realizing that whether you like it or not, you know, whatever you think about time, it it's moving. Right? We cannot stay. Like you could not stay as a college student. Even if you went to I couldn't. I couldn't.

Jared 23:28

Maybe I would have been able to, in my case, because I decided I didn't want to do my major anymore. Maybe I could have done a fifth year, switched majors, done something, but then it would have been only one more year. And then I'd be in the same quandary of what the heck do I do with my life now that I'm not a student.

Ben Hummell 23:45

That's right. Yeah. And and what have what do I do with my life now that I'm not, you know, 26 anymore, now that I'm 40, or now that my children have left home, or now that I'm not an auto worker, whatever it is, right? It's it's there's as many as there are people. So so here's the thing to to move into a place of becoming quote unquote unstuck. Um, you change your relationship to what stuckness is, and you kind of feel the pull of oh, the reason this feels so bad is that something isn't moving in my life. And I've got to find whatever in my life has some movement right now, very small. Like, like, for instance, um, I don't know if you've ever done this. Sometimes, you know, I have always have a list on my desk of things that I need to have get done, little things. And sometimes I'll try those things and they just can't get any movement on it, right? And so instead of being depressed and bummed out that I can't make any traction on that, I'll go to something else. And then if if that isn't moving, it's like, well, maybe it's time for me to just be quiet and go and sit in my backyard and look at the mountain and just kind of have a peaceful mental health break today. Right. So anything that can move, and do you know what I mean by movement? What when I say that, what is it, what do you think?

Jared 25:19

You know, I was actually dealing with this recently in my own life, where sometimes I was just getting flooded with negative thoughts and feelings. And I tried like a somatic approach, like I was trying to feel into my legs. I tried to, you know, this is something I learned in in in uh this is something I I learned recently is like I tried to like put my hand on my forehead to get the blood running, going to the prefrontal cortex. I tried thinking positive thoughts, tried thinking what I was grateful for. Nothing worked, but the only thing that worked to get me unstuck was I, you know, I finished my drive and I went to a park and I changed my environment and I changed what I was doing in the moment. And I looked out at the ocean, and the change in activity was the little bit of movement that I needed to kind of get myself a little bit unstuck. Just a little bit of movement.

Ben Hummell 26:15

Right, yeah. Yeah, that's right. And so, you know, I are you familiar with the the idea of DAO?

Jared 26:23

The the DAO like T A O, D-A-O, yeah.

Finding Your Genius

Ben Hummell 26:26

Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. So think about it this way. If the DAO, the DAO is like a a stream or a river that's moving, and it's always moving. The flow of life is always moving. We're either in the flow or we're sitting on the bank somewhere. And anytime you get stuck, it's like you've gone outside of the Dow, out of the flow, and you're sitting on the bank looking at it, wondering why nothing's happening. Right? So the only effort is to get back into that movement of life. Okay, because that's everything is moving forward, and if we're not moving with it, we can feel it. It feels bad. You know, it feels really bad. Um so it it again, the relationship to stuckness, you realize okay, life is moving and I'm not. So, how do I jump in that flow again to feel that natural movement in my life? And so you gave a good example, you know. Let me just go out here and sit on this bench and look at the ocean. That works. If you don't have an ocean, you know, maybe yours is to go and watch some kids play basketball or whatever it is, you know, or to kind of just derail how you were thinking and just be go on to something else. But some little trick, and they're just tricks to begin with, uh to shift your state so that the natural movement and flow can happen again in you. Because it wants to. It wants to, you know, we have no choice but to yeah, we have no choice but to move forward, like in time at least. Nobody gets to stay anywhere, you know, and so if you can like make peace with that and know that when I'm not moving with life, it feels bad. And let me kind of make whatever kind of effort I need to to to place myself in that that sense of flow again. That's uh, you know, that's my job.

Jared 28:27

And it can be small things, is what I'm hearing.

Ben Hummell 28:30

Very small things, yes.

Jared 28:31

Very small, very small.

Ben Hummell 28:33

Small enough to do small enough to do in one moment.

Jared 28:36

In one moment, that's all we have, right?

Ben Hummell 28:38

Right, right.

Jared 28:40

Well, so let's kind of go into the the the best part, the the thing we've all been waiting for, which is finding people's genius, finding their life's purpose, finding their life's calling. So I found for myself that, like you said, there's the wound drive, which is like healing, working with my mental health condition, traumas, et cetera, et cetera. But then at some point I found having forward direction for me. This podcast is part of that, public speaking is part of that, uh, mental health advocacy is part of that, uh, leading mental health support groups is part of that. And it's it's my mental health is is so much more stable and better because of, you know, because of the forward movement and and connecting to what I believe may be my life's calling and doing that. And so for people, how how do people, how can people find their genius? How can they find their life's purpose, the things that, the things that light them up and make life worth living?

Ben Hummell 29:46

Well, that's a very beautiful and huge question. And that's why I uh developed the genius way, which is a uh process for people to find their genius. It looks at your your genius from like 10 different directions, so that you can kind of orient and find what's right in the middle there. Um, and um, so in a nutshell, um, our genius has visited us, and I'm saying this in you know in kind of like a poetic way. Our genius has shown up, shown up at different times in our lives, and there are you know inventories that I have with the genius way where you can kind of go and look and see when it showed up. So let's take you for an example right now. You just described about five different things that you're doing that um kind of feel fulfilling to you.

Jared 30:43

Yeah.

Ben Hummell 30:43

Okay. Um, and you said, maybe it's my life purpose, and you know, it makes me feel good to do them. And, you know, and as you were saying that, you know, I know we're just audio here, but I can see you now, and I see your eyes light up, and you're kind of speaking with a sense of authority, and you feel like, man, I have something to offer here. In in short, you're identifying with this aspect of your life that has an opening to it now. You're shifting your identity from uh I was really, you know, had a mental health issue that I was struggling with to, oh wow, I have an expressive side to me that feels fulfilling. Okay. So when your genius shows up in your life, when it kind of gets uncovered in in a moment, you will notice that you have a sense, like a sense of urgency that's not anxious. That's like this is important. This feels really good to be able to do this thing, say this thing, be this person in somebody's life. It there's just an extra layer of importance that you find with it. There's a familiarity. There is like a a uh kind of a secret and that previously hidden sense of authority that comes out of you that you don't even really know where it comes from. It's not from years of studying, it's just something that is so profoundly true about it to you, you know, and again, this sounds like a tall order, but I guarantee everybody that's listening to this right now has had that aspect of themselves come out from time to time throughout their entire life. It's just there was nobody there to point it out and to kind of show them this is very important, and you need to pay attention to this because this is where life fulfillment comes in. You know, you you are here with a handful of things to express that nobody else in the world is capable of expressing the way that you do, and it's important that you express these things, it's your contribution to the world, right? And it doesn't matter whether you're contributing as a gardener, as a musician, as uh somebody that's you know creating spreadsheets, it doesn't matter, it's just that it has to have that feeling for you, that importance. So the first thing in finding your genius is do an inventory of when that those moments showed up for you throughout your life. That's one of the first things. Does that make sense?

Jared 33:24

That makes sense, yeah. Take an inventory of pay attention, remember um the times in your life that you were lit up, that you felt good, that something just felt natural to you, right?

Ben Hummell 33:38

Yeah. Another thing to look for, and again, there are 10 life skills in the genius way process that that point to all these these things. But another one is what is something that you would do for free? What's something that you would do in terms of, you know, let's say you're looking for an occupation. Um, and genius and money don't always match up, but a lot of times they do, they can, okay, but not always. But let's just say there's something that you would do is like, I don't care, I just love doing this. Like, and so I know that for myself is like as I'm developing the genius way, um, you know, um, literature and different things, it almost doesn't matter to me that anybody ever benefits from it. You know, that's not the point. The point is it's coming out of me, it's like being expressed by me. Whatever happens to it after that is not up to me. My job is to express this and to make it available, you know. Um, and that feels just in and of itself fulfilling. You know, for me also, communicating um maybe a complex idea and sharing it with somebody in order to give them a more expanded view of their own life is extremely important to me. It just is I don't think there's anything better than to help somebody understand themselves more. To me, that's like that's a life well lived, and that's my personal genius that I'm aware of. So the key is when you find these things, you know, genius appearing in your life throughout your life, when you find those things that are just really important to you, even if there's nobody around, to stay with those things and be kind of committed to expressing those things is part of what the genius work is about. You know, it's like knowing this is my job, this is my responsibility. And even if I don't know what my part is in this overall structure of the universe, I know it's important for me to do this, and I I know how this feels. You know, you're looking for a sense that uh me doing this feels important. I don't even know why, it just feels that way, you know? So so there's a there's a couple points there.

Jared 36:12

And if it's if it's something intuitive like it was for me, where I would just have these intuitive hits of I want to do public speaking, or I really need to do a podcast, or I really want to start facilitating support groups. Like, do you have any advice? Like, how do people pay attention to that intuitive nudge? Like, you know, because it's one thing to say, let's do an inventory of the of certain times in your life, but sometimes people may go, especially like if somebody's suffering with depression, everything feels bleak. Yeah, yeah. So, how do people like access that perspective? How do they access that voice? How do they access that intuition?

Ben Hummell 36:50

Right. Well, see, you know, there the it's like a a couple steps here. If somebody's like deep in depression and at in a depressive dip, they need to be in therapy. They might need medication, they might, you know, they need all that.

Jared 37:05

Obviously, when it comes to medication, that's something that people discuss with with a psychiatrist. But certainly for some people, you know, medication can work and can be helpful.

Ben Hummell 37:15

Right. It's whatever, whatever their situation is. The main thing is they need to deal with the depression, right? Because underneath the depression, on the on the other side of whatever got them into that state, there is your genius waiting to be expressed, right? And there is a feeling that comes with an unexpressed, you know, genius. There's a feeling that comes with it. It's like a dissatisfaction, it's a little bit of, you know, like I said, it's like a like a little bit of urgency. Okay. And so, you know, mental health, in order to express genius, you've got to kind of like get yourself to a place where, you know, through whatever work you can do, where you can actually feel your genius calling you. Right. And you can feel that like, I need something that feels fulfilling in my life.

Jared 38:11

Right.

Ben Hummell 38:11

When we're in the midst of a depression, it's enough to kind of get out of bed and make yourself breakfast sometimes, depending on what it is. And that's good. That's good work, you know. But on the other side of that is like if you can feel the urgency to express yourself in a creative and helpful way for the rest of humanity, yeah. Um, that feeling, you you nurture that feeling, even if it feels like I don't know what to do. Hold on to that feeling because it's going to elicit an expression from you. You're gonna see where I can place myself to express that certain thing. Like, like the importance of mental health to you, uh, you know, to me, it feels very important, it feels urgent. And so, what did you do? All right, I'm I've got a podcast, you know, you're I'm you're setting yourself in these different lanes to be able to express that thing. So that's like more kind of advanced um genius expression where the next step is, okay, I've got this thing to express, to say, to whatever. How do I place myself in a context where that gets to be done?

Jared 39:28

Right.

Ben Hummell 39:29

Right.

Jared 39:29

Right.

Ben Hummell 39:30

Right.

Jared 39:30

So there's a certain amount of of you do the inventory, you see what lights you up, what would you do for free. And then there's a certain amount of action taking that needs to happen.

Ben Hummell 39:40

Absolutely. Yeah.

Jared 39:41

And it may be slow, like I mean, I'll I'll be honest, you know. Um, I was intimidated to start a podcast because uh I gotta come up with a name and I gotta come up with a logo, and then I gotta come up with um an intro and an outro and a mid-roll, and I have to decide if I want to interview guests or not interview guests. And it took me years of like sort of being stuck and afraid to start. And eventually the thing that got me going was just small action steps was okay, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna just see if I can get a logo done. Great, okay. Then I'm gonna see if I can get like uh uh an outro audio clip recorded, and then okay, this is my title. And so sometimes I'm a big believer in like micro actions.

Ben Hummell 40:31

Absolutely, I agree 100%.

Jared 40:33

Right.

Fear of Becoming Your Future Self

Ben Hummell 40:33

Yeah. So again, I've I've developed this, you know, 10 life skills system. And with each one of these life skills, I'm gonna shed a little more light on on how to find your genius, locate, express it. Great. So with each one of these things, there's there's um it's they're developed to bring out an insight about your genius. So there's a guided um journey in each one of them where you kind of pull out material from your own awareness, right? And that you might not be aware of. Um and as you do so, you learn to kind of um kind of uh collect that information so that you have like a portfolio of what are what are your genius qualities. Okay. And when you have that, you you uh you know, you use that insight to um kind of remember as you're going through your day, wait a minute, what what is my genius about? What am I looking for? And and the more that you identify with your genius as part of who you are, um, you're gonna see opportunities everywhere. You know, you're gonna see what to do because you're orienting yourself from that place of oh, I've got these these qualities, these latent qualities in myself that all I need to do is kind of find a way to pull them out, like you were doing, you know, it might be excruciatingly slow or whatever. Um, but you're doing it, you're doing it, however you're doing it.

Jared 42:21

You know, you're making a space for it, you're being brave, even when your mind is saying, uh, you know, I don't know how to do this or what to do, you're taking aspect even when we have internal resistance to it.

Ben Hummell 42:34

Yes.

Jared 42:35

Um and that's actually something I wanted to ask as well, because uh I've found for myself sometimes sometimes there's I've feel a lot of fear about stepping into newness in my life. Yeah, stepping into the full potential of a life's calling.

Ben Hummell 42:53

Yeah.

Jared 42:53

Because it will affect my identity, it will affect how I walk through the world, it will affect how I orient to myself. Um and so for people that sometimes it's it's it for me at least, it was unconscious that I that I have resistance to stepping into something new. Oh yeah, to stepping into life's calling. And so for people that are kind of maybe in that fear mode or their mind is giving them so much resistance, even maybe, you know, maybe they had that intuitive hit like I did, where it's like public speaking, public speaking, or do a podcast, or lead support groups, but then like then it's like, oh no, that's a big change, and and you know, it's a lot, it's gonna change how I think about myself, and I don't know if I can handle this, and this is too much. And how how do people kind of navigate the fear of stepping into a life's calling?

Ben Hummell 43:49

Yeah, so you gotta see where's the fear coming from. The fear in in your scenario comes from the continued identification with your past, yeah, and the terrible things that were very hard to get through, right?

Jared 44:12

The wound drive, right? In a sense, that's right.

Ben Hummell 44:15

That's right. Wound drive. Something's broken and it needs to be fixed, right? And so, you know, we're always gonna have stuff to fix, but we also have a genius, we also have Something that is directly related to life purpose that needs to be expressed. Okay. And so, you know, one of the biggest fears that people have is to identify with something that they actually want. It's like the upper limit of their life.

Jared 44:47

And now we're back to identity. We're back to identity.

Ben Hummell 44:51

All identity, all of it. So the thing is, can you allow yourself to be successful, let's say? Can you allow yourself to be sincerely expressive? I mean, put those two words together to express myself in a sincere way. Because if you do that, you know, you know, the word courage comes to mind. You know, the etymology of the word courage is to be able to express what's in your heart.

Jared 45:22

That's right. That's right. That's right.

Ben Hummell 45:25

And that that's like, I'm vulnerable, but also this is really important to me. You know, that idea is like, this is what's in my heart, this is what I care about. If I care about, I know others care about it too. Not everybody, but enough people where this is important for me to say and do. So part of the thing is, you know, the the scariest thing for somebody who is identified with the wound is to see themselves as somebody who can actually, you know, reach a higher expression of themselves. Right. And I'm just here to say that is not the uh exception, that's the rule. In other words, you are not here to just be stuck in an old version of yourself and to be afraid, right? There is way more, and we all need you to come out of that and identify with somebody who has a life purpose and who has something valuable to offer. You know, it's totally okay to come out of that. So, what was that old, that old quote? Um, I'm gonna mispronounce this person's name, but the it's an author named something like Nin. Do you know what's talking about?

Jared 46:43

Not sure.

Ben Hummell 46:44

I I mispronouncing the name, but it's the quote is you know, the moment, and again I'm paraphrasing, the moment came where it was more painful to remain small than it was to open up.

Jared 46:57

Ah, yes, I've heard of that, I think.

The Importance of Self-Awareness and Reflection

Ben Hummell 46:58

Yeah, something like that. Right. And that's exactly what we're talking about. You know. Um, so if you can be in touch with that, and I know it's it can be agonizing sometimes, like, oh how do I do this? Yeah, but take those micro steps. Remember, time goes. If you take one micro step today, that's one more that you don't have to take tomorrow. And the week will go by and you have seven micro steps towards expressing yourself, right?

Jared 47:28

Instead of zero. Small actions. Yes. Right.

Ben Hummell 47:32

Yeah. That's right.

Jared 47:33

Absolutely. Absolutely. No, that that's identity seems to be this running theme. It is running theme. And uh the last question I wanted to ask you actually, um, and I think because I think we've given people like some good beginner steps to kind of identify their their life's calling, for example. Um, I wanted to touch on the fifth building block of recovery, which is self-awareness, which we've talked about, like taking inventory of the things that light you up. I think that's part of self-awareness. Um, we also talked about identity and about maybe being stuck in the wound drive and being so used to having our life identified with the things that have happened to us rather than the place that we want to go. And, you know, I'm a huge fan of self-reflection because I think self-reflection can help us to actually deconstruct these identity struggles and free us to actually embrace the future and to move forward. And so, can you just talk about the importance of expanded self-awareness, which is the fifth building block of recovery, um, and specifically the importance of self-reflection as it comes to one's life calling?

One Last Piece of Advice for Finding Life's Calling

Ben Hummell 48:52

Yeah. So, self-reflection to me is the ability and the kind of you know quiet sensitivity to be able to see what you are experiencing at any given time. To kind of like, hmm, how am I how am I feeling right now? You know, what's what's happening inside of me right now? So it's an absolute must when you're trying to sense into your genius because the feeling of like I remember the first time I felt I felt my genius. I was in second grade and I was in a play. And something about being on stage and knowing my lines and going through that and feeling the audience reaction, I was just in heaven. Um I'm a kind of person who in front of people I get very, very calm. You know, it feels really natural to me, right? And so to sense that in oneself, you have to have self-reflection. You have to be able to kind of notice the subtle differences between, you know, anxiety, peace, you know, longing, yearning, urgency, you have to kind of become an expert at your own inner world, basically, and what's going on in there. Right. So, yes, self-reflection is like big time, a you know, a lifelong thing to develop. Okay. Um, so in terms of self-reflection, um, to be able to use that self-reflection to then make decisions about your life and where to go and how to kind of use your time, that becomes a lot easier. You know, it becomes much more simple once you know, whoa, doing this, I feel very, you know, enlivened. Doing this, ooh, that felt like a waste of my time. You know, when you can reflect on how you're experiencing your different things that happen in your life, you're gonna really know, okay, this is where I need to spend my time. This is this other thing is like, you know, off the table, not interested in that. And that goes for people that you spend time with, things that you spend time doing, or not. Right.

Jared 51:07

So No, excellent, excellent. Yeah, I've always found what whether it's for the the the wound drive or healing of wounds, or it's the or it's the um the expressing of genius and life's calling, self-reflection, I've always found to be a very powerful tool.

Ben Hummell 51:25

Yes.

Jared 51:26

Um, which I like to do through journaling, but it can be done in many different ways. Um and so before we end, the last thing I'd like to ask you, Ben, is if you just had like one golden nugget takeaway, one golden nugget piece of advice for people who want to find their life's calling, um, what would that one golden nugget be?

Ben Hummell 51:44

Well, today what it is is um spend time looking for the part of you that is wanting to express something new. Okay, because everyone has one. Everyone has this part. It's just been largely ignored, mostly because everybody lives such a wounded life and they spend all their time healing the wounds. Again, good work, necessary, but in order to find life fulfillment and purpose, you have to kind of be sensitive enough to see what is really, really, really important to me, and how do I take one step towards that? Right. And then go to thegeniusway.com and you know that that kind of talks about my website, talks about that.

Jared 52:36

Uh can we I can put that in the show notes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ben Hummell 52:41

Yeah.

Jared 52:42

Well, absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Ben. Um, this is pretty educational and I think touched on a lot of things that, especially for folks in recovery, that we go through uh consistently. And I just, yeah, I think it's so important that we not only heal the wounds, but that we move forward in life. Yes. And we find what lights us up. And and in fact, what lights us up is going to help us to heal the things that happened to us in the past.

Ben Hummell 53:12

Yes, yes.

Jared 53:13

So yes. Well, anyways, thank you, Ben, for coming on today. It was a pleasure.

Ben Hummell 53:18

Sure. Nice to be with you.

Jared 53:19

Awesome. Thanks so much.