This is Disruption
This is Disruption podcast explores the pursuit of creativity and shares the stories of the fearless creators in street art, graffiti, music, photography and beyond, who boldly challenge the status quo, break barriers for others and share their work unapologetically. Each episode is a deep dive interview exploring the lives of artistic risk takers, exploring their motivations, their inspirations, and their take on the power of art, in whatever form they make it in.
The podcast is hosted by Irish street artist and DJ, Did by Rua, based in London.
This is Disruption
Hells Gibson: From Corporate Life to Creative Bliss
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What happens when a corporate careerist trades in their hotdesk for a paintbrush? I'm so excited to share this episode as it is with a very dear friend of mine, the wonderful Hells Gibson. Hells is a North London-based artist whose journey from graffiti to a creative corporate job to now being an acclaimed artist and muralist is nothing short of inspiring.
Have you ever wondered what it takes to leave a safe and secure corporate job and follow your creative dreams? Hells shares her meticulously planned transition (she is a Capricorn after all!) from a structured nine-to-five to being a full-time freelance artist. She shares the practical steps she took to alleviate financial stress, the importance of embracing opportunities, and how she found joy in a structured approach to creating art. This episode is jam packed full of great advice for anyone considering a major career change, emphasising that with careful planning, the leap can be less daunting.
Hells opens up about her early artistic influences, from her first forays into the world of street art and how she overcame the conventional expectations of what an artist should be to embracing failure and persistence to find her own unique voice in the art world.
But art is not just about creating; it's about connecting. Hells recounts the stories and goals behind her emotionally impactful work, from making people laugh with her witty text art to touching hearts with poignant pieces. We also delve into her latest projects and the therapeutic potential of art in overcoming personal struggles.
Whether you're an aspiring artist, a corporate professional dreaming of a creative life, or someone who simply loves a good story of resilience and transformation, this episode promises a wealth of insights and inspiration.
One last piece of exciting news (does anybody read this far? I don't know!), Hells and I have been working on our own podcast where we have been doing The Artists Way by Julia Cameron. We'll be releasing weekly episodes for that very soon and we would LOVE for you to join us on that journey. Stay tuned on Instagram for more info on that, and get in touch if you would like to take part in a group of people doing it together and supporting each other.
Enjoy x
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Hello there. You are very welcome to. This is Disruption podcast, with me, your host Rua. This podcast brings you in-depth interviews with the fearless creatives in street art, graffiti, music, photography and beyond, who boldly challenge the status quo, break barriers for others and share their work unapologetically. Each episode is a deep dive into the lives of artistic risk takers, exploring their motivations, their inspirations and their reasons for their willingness to disrupt societal norms. Some of these stories involve revolutionising their industries, while others are pushing the boundaries of legality with their art. Coming up on today's episode.
Speaker 2:If you can imagine it, you can do it. Everything is figureoutable. You can do it, you can figure it out. Say yes to as many things as you can and just go for it. Just try it, do it. And it wasn't until that that I was like actually this dream is could be a reality. Do you know what? I'm just dead impressed. I'm so impressed that, like dreams can become reality. Fail, fail as much as you can, just keep failing. It's fine, because also the world's not going to end. You're not a brain surgeon. No one's life is in your hands. Try something else, fail as much as possible. That's my advice.
Speaker 1:Fail every day I am so excited to bring you today's episode. Today, I am talking to the one and only hells gibson. Hells is a really close friend of mine, as you'll hear in this episode. We met through street art. She is somebody who is super inspiring to me personally, as well as being a great friend. Her work includes bold colours, raw emotions, unapologetic statements and, just like Helz herself, is really special. Whether you have seen her work in galleries or on the streets, it is super recognisable. I can't wait to tell you more about her story. In galleries or on the streets, it is super recognizable. I can't wait to tell you more about her story.
Speaker 1:Helz and I have actually started to record another podcast together where we are doing the Artist's Way program. We would love for you to join us on that journey, and this is a great opportunity to get to know Helz a little bit better before that gets released. As always, you're very welcome. Back, sit back, relax or, even better, go and make something as you listen to this. This is Disruption. Hello, I am so delighted to be here in East London today with the one and only Helz Gibson. Helz is a good friend of mine and she is an incredible artist. She's so motivated and so driven and is really inspiring to me, hells how are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm good. I'm even better after you just said all that about me. I'm great now.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad to have you here and to be able to pick your brains, have a little bit of a chat, so thank you so much for coming down. For anybody who hasn't yet found you or your art, can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what is it you do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I am an artist from North London. I'm a predominantly text-based artist, so I do a lot of screen printing, stenciling with text, words and things like that, and I'm kind of branching out a bit more into muralism at the moment. I come from a bit of a graffiti background, so I'm kind of going a bit back to go forward, if that any sense. But yeah, I'm predominantly a text artist, I'd say Amazing.
Speaker 1:So you've just touched on something that I love to talk about. Something I usually ask people is what's the first bit of art you ever remember making, because what I find is that often it's reflected in people's work when they're older. So you said you come from a graffiti background. I love that, and what is it the first time you ever remember making art? What was it?
Speaker 2:I think that actually, the first memory of art for me was colouring in. I don't consider myself a very good artist. I can't draw. I struggle with drawing. My brother, however, is an incredible artist in terms of illustrator drawer. I remember growing up he could draw like anything. I asked him if I was like, can you draw me a robot? He could like draw a robot. So the early memories were colouring in my brother's drawings and my dad's an architect, so he could draw really straight lines and he could draw really realistic things. My first memory was actually colouring in my brother and my dad's pictures and I became obsessed with being like staying within the lines and being really precise and colouring in. So I think that it's interesting.
Speaker 2:You say that kind of influences how you move forward with your art. I think with all my art, I feel like everything has to be really precise. I do a lot of stenciling, like I said, a lot of like text based stuff, so everything's quite graphic and precise and straight. I'm not very fluid, if that makes sense. I'm not good at just like drawing and experimenting. I'm very like rigid, which I struggled with a lot because as an artist, I feel like I should be able to just like pick up a pen and just start like drawing incredible flowers and all this stuff. I just can't do that. So recently I've had to really like lean into what I am good at and what I can do, which is straight lines and coloring in basically. I'm basically a professional color inner aren't we all?
Speaker 1:yeah, everybody is. That's what we're all doing. We're trying to keep our lines clean, yeah and we're putting colors on walls or wherever it is that we might be doing it. Yeah, yeah, so that's brilliant. Now I know that you have. I know that you've recently become a freelance artist. Can you tell us a little bit more about your career and your journey?
Speaker 2:okay, how long have we got? So I studied photography at.
Speaker 2:Glasgow School of Art and I was really wanting to be a photographer and I had kind of dreams of being this like incredible fashion photographer. Didn't feel like I was very good at that, but I was very good at coming up with like ideas and directing other people how to create these ideas. So after university I came out of uni and went into magazine world. I became picture editor at various magazines. I was like I was at Grazia and then ES magazine and then finally Telegraph luxury magazine as director of photography. So I've had a very creative career within the confines of very corporate, structured environments and I found that I kind of flourished in that because I really like unlike most graffiti artists or artists in general, I really like rules and regulations. I seem to do very well with those kind of things. So I kind of flourished in this creative job within quite a strict industry Until about a year ago. And something I noticed after a few, maybe a couple years I noticed that I was really really sad but like you wouldn't have known it if you'd met me, you'd be like oh, she's really happy, she's really like loving life. I was miserable and I had to take a real deep look inside myself and I realized I was miserable in that corporate world and I think I told myself for like 10 years that I loved it and I was really good. And you know, my career was because I was on paper my career was really impressive and in reality I was just miserable. So, yeah, I had about, yeah, I, after about 10 years in this industry, I realised that actually I was telling myself I was enjoying it, but actually what I was enjoying was the small bits of creativity I could have. So I started to kind of picking up artwork on the side in terms of like a hobby, you know, kind of like a hobbyist, like crafting, making little prints and cards and stickers and running around London sticking things up. And that hobby kind of grew and grew and grew to the point where I was miserable Monday to Friday going into work and I was so happy in the evening and weekends when I was doing my like quote unquote hobby until it got to the point where I actually couldn't, I couldn't continue on in my career, in my job at the time, because I just hated it. I hated the office culture. I hated living for the weekend, I hated living for like the hours outside my job. This sounds really dark, but I had this moment when I was like I don't want to be on my deathbed and look back at my life and go, oh, do you know what? I'd worked really, really hard for the Telegraph for 45 years. Or like, oh, do you know what? I made that company a really good amount of money. Like, well, done me. No, I wasn't going to be proud of that, I wasn't going to be happy with that. I thought, if I look back on my life, I want to look back and go, shit, I did that amazing piece of artwork or I influenced that person, or I worked with that incredible talent. You know, I kind of was like I need to work for myself, basically. And I finally took the plunge a year ago and started working for myself. Congratulations, thanks, babe.
Speaker 2:The practical advice not that anyone's asked for it, but I basically saved up enough money that I could not work for six months. So I figured out how much I needed for my bills, my mortgage, all of that, and I worked really hard to save up for six months. So when I left my job, I gave myself six months where I didn't have to make money so I just could create. I think the hard thing is when you go from a career of being paid monthly, having your PAYE sorry, this is really boring, I'm sorry, I just talk about taxes. When you have your taxes paid, when you have your pension paid into, all of that stuff does alleviate a lot of stress, right.
Speaker 2:So I knew when I wanted to become an artist full-time, put all my effort into it, I had to take that stress out of my life. So I saved up enough. I thought six months was a good enough time to kind of go right. I mean, even three months would have been great, but like I'm a Capricorn, so I'm quite like. So, yeah, I gave myself six months and I thought, right, I'm just gonna make art and see what happens. And because I had the you know that's pretty privileged I was able to do that. But because of that I just I just went mad. I just did art every day. I still got up work nine five, but I worked nine to five on my artwork and within a month because that was what I was doing just doors just started opening everywhere. So, yeah, that's how I did it.
Speaker 1:I love it. Well, congratulations for making that move and for being brave enough to take that step. I think that's probably the dream for a lot of artists. They want to be able to do it all day, every day. That's the creating, is the dream for a lot of artists. They want to be able to do it all day, every day.
Speaker 1:That's the creating is the dream yeah, so well done for working so hard and for getting there and for getting up and still structuring yourself and still doing your nine to five working on it. It's really impressive and thank you for your honesty in saying that it may look on the outside that you're living the dream, but you might not actually be truly loving life yeah, and you?
Speaker 2:I think that's the thing I mean. When I left my job my mother was furious. She was like what about your taxes? I was terrified. I was absolutely terrified because I was like, if you know, I'm so used to my whole career since university I've had a job that pays me every month. Like I said, my taxes are paid, my pensions paid into.
Speaker 2:You get kind of confined to that and you you in my head anyway, I felt like that was so important. You know, I have to, things have to be taken. Obviously you do have to take care of them and as a freelancer, you have to pay your taxes. I mean, you can try, not, but it doesn't end well. But I think I became so resigned to the fact that life is you have to go to work Monday to Friday. You have to. You know, friday night drinks for Saturday, sunday. You know I was kind of structured in this way of Monday to Friday work you go to an office, because that's what I grew up knowing.
Speaker 2:Covid came along and changed a lot of people's opinion on that and I think that maybe actually that's when I first realised, because I was working from home so I could kind of do a lot more art in my spare time. But as soon as I've left the world of nine to five, I could not. If you told me now to go back to an office like five days a week, I'd be like are you mad? That's madness. I did it. I did it for almost 15 years. Most people do it and actually it works for a lot of people and it worked for me for 15 years, but then it just didn't work for me anymore so how does it feel now to have achieved what you were trying to do when you decided to take the leap and to become freelance?
Speaker 2:I literally I realize I'm quite an emotional person. I didn't think I was. I thought I was like super cool and like stone ice, stone queen. No, no, I'm super emotional. I once a week have a little cry, like burst into tears out of god this sounds so cheesy out of happiness. So I had them a moment the other day. I just got a studio in camden near where I live. I walked into studio the other day and I just burst into tears and I was like hysterically crying from happiness because I was like, oh, my god, I'm gonna cry now.
Speaker 2:I was like I have wanted my whole life. I've been sitting at this desk like different companies and don't get me wrong, I enjoyed my job. It wasn't. I wasn't miserable the whole time, but I was like, oh, imagine one day like I could be. Imagine sitting in a studio one day and just making art, imagine that. Oh well, that will never happen to me.
Speaker 2:Like, off, I go, like you know, back to work. I go. And then suddenly I'm like that dream that I had god, I sound like a Disney that I didn't dare to dream. But there was years where I was like I didn't dare to dream that I could leave my job because I was so conditioned to think that I can't. I have to work day in, day out in this structure, so I kind of didn't really dare to dream it. And then a couple of to be fair a couple of other things happened which I can't really talk about, but a couple of other things happened which also forced me to really decide to leave my job. And it wasn't until that I was like, actually this dream is could be a reality. You know what? I'm just dead impressed. I'm so impressed that, like, dreams can become reality.
Speaker 1:I love that well, it truly is a really brave step, and I bet so many people want to do the same thing. So if anybody's listening to this, hells has done it. She's managed. So do you think that the fact that you were in such a disciplined role beforehand, working for a creative corporate environment, do you think that's paid off because of that experience in disciplining yourself? Now, how do you stay motivated?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I've always been really disciplined. As a kid I was really disciplined. Like I said, I'm a Capricorn, so I'm very disciplined. I'm very good with a spreadsheet. I'm very good with a deadline and a budget, which I think, as an artist, is quite rare but also really useful. Yeah, having a, I was also working for companies that were quite strict. You know, there was a lot of deadlines, there was a lot of tight budget, there was a lot of strict rules and regulations in place which, like I said, I was very good at following.
Speaker 2:I think working in companies that are so structured just it just gave me real life training on structuring my day, handling multiple projects. I mean, when I was at the telegraph, you know, I'd have five shoots a week, so I'd have to be working on five different shoots a cover shoot, a smaller shoot, whatever and actually, as a freelancer, that's exactly what you need. You need to be able to handle multiple projects, you need to be structured, you need to be quite strict with your timings on things. I think people think freelance and art means you're just kind of a's the word, you kind of a bit like wishy-washy and you're like oh, I'm an artist, you know, I sometimes pick up a pen and actually it's a business. You're, what you're doing is a business, and you know the telegraph is a business. I'm a business. I've kind of put the same rules on myself and I think to keep myself motivated, I actually really respond well to structure, always have. For me it is getting up at the same time. You know, go for a run in the morning, come home and start my working day.
Speaker 2:Now, my working day might not look like what you think a working day looks like. My working day might be going to Tate Modern, then walking from Tate Modern back to North London. That, to me, is a working day because whilst I'm doing that, I'm seeing art, I'm finding spaces, I'm looking at walls that I want to paint. It might just look to other people like, oh, she's going to an art gallery for the day. That's my working day. My working day might be I go to my studio and just play about with some new paint, which I did the other day.
Speaker 2:I had such a creative block the other day. I just walked to my studio and on the way I saw a few. I get inspiration for everything. On the way I saw a few little things, kind of made a note in my head found actually found a couple of half empty spray cans on the wall that some builders were throwing out in like interior paint. It wasn't like you know, montana or anything like that, it was just like some furniture spray paint. They said I could have them, so I took them to my studio. I just started spraying stuff. But that was like that's my working day right, just like walking to my studio messing about with some paint and then walking home.
Speaker 1:So yeah, Can you tell us a bit about what's your creative process?
Speaker 2:It's actually changed a lot. Honestly, in the last two weeks I my creative process used to be like I said I did a lot of screen printing. My work is a lot of text-based stuff. I also only work with the colours pink, gold and white. So I'm again restrictions. I've put that restriction on myself. So my creative process used to be I'd kind of get some pink card or gold card or pink paint or gold paint and really plan out what the piece is going to look like, measure the paper, either stencil it or hand paint it, and everything was really structured. And in the last couple of I've really struggled with doing that. I think I'm getting frustrated with myself because I'm restricting myself too much. So my creative process in the last couple of weeks has been walking around London taking photos. I take photos as a photographer as well. I take photos of everything, taking photos of things and getting to my studio and just like.
Speaker 2:I bought a watercolour palette the other other day. I've never done watercolors in my life. If you know my work. It's just not what my work looks like. Your work's quite bold, it's very bold and like, yeah, it's quite kind of graphic. So I bought, I bought this watercolor palette and I just started messing about with it and from there I started painting flowers. Now you know me. I'm not. I love flowers, but I've never I don't include flowers in my work. I'm not like a very floral my work's not very floral.
Speaker 2:I suddenly found myself like painting watercolor flowers, which never in my life. If you told me last year like oh hells, paint me a watercolor flower, I'd be like fuck off, why the fuck would I do that? And I loved it and I started painting these flowers and so I've developed these flowers into these kind of dripping. I started letting the watercolors drip down the page and I've started experimenting with drips now in different mediums, so like getting different types of paint and seeing how it drips, how to make it drip and stuff. I'm like I don't know why. I don't know why I'm working with drips now, but I'm like loving this, I'm loving this.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, my creative process is at the moment is just trying random stuff, like anything I can think of that's super important, though it's super important if you find yourself feeling like you're not fulfilling the creativity that wants to come out and you experiment with something new. Who knows what the future looks like for you in terms of your art. Some people have very specific brands. If I see something from a distance, I'm like that's hell's. I can tell yeah, because it's the pink, it's gold, it's white. Super interesting being able to experiment, maybe change that and move the viewer, the people on the streets usually, or that are coming to your shows to take them on a bit of a journey of your creativity, which is pretty cool yeah, yeah, and actually I think it's interesting to say that because I had a show in february.
Speaker 2:A really, really nice local gallery just opened in archway called the gallery at the playroom and it's a charity that helps teaching disadvantaged kids. It's actually started as a toy. It's called the toy project. It started as a toy shop and you can donate toys and then they give them to kids that need them and stuff. It's a lovely, lovely local charity and they've just opened a gallery and anyone in the local area can book this gallery for free and you can have a show. And I was like, oh, fuck it, I'll book it, like I've got no work but I'll book it. And I spent two weeks in this gallery just making stuff and I had the public coming in and had the kids coming in and stuff and obviously it started out me doing lots of text pieces my pink, my, my golds and all of that. And then I was sitting in because it's a toy. It was originally a toy shop.
Speaker 2:I started painting chessboard pink and gold and people went nuts for it. People were like coming to see the pink and gold chessboard. So then I painted some dominoes pink and gold. They sold instantly. This guy came in and was like I have to have them. Other people were like do you have more? People were like do you have more?
Speaker 2:I started painting dice, pink and gold and that kind of just natural progression people got really into and I think because I continued my colours on it made sense. Now I suppose my not difficulty, but my like why am I suddenly playing about with flowers? Why am I suddenly picking up other colours that aren't pink and gold? Why am I starting to work with watercolours? Like not that I need a reason, but I suppose I'm kind of like interested in the journey as to why have I gone from this very structured pink, gold and white text to suddenly all the colours of the rainbow floral works. Yeah, I'm finding it quite interesting, but I'm also trying not I have a tendency to want to categorize everything and like put everything in a box. That's that work and that's that work. And actually what I need to start doing is just being like it's just your fucking work, like make it, put it out there.
Speaker 2:I think that's the other thing I'm learning a lot is I'm really enjoying making work and just putting it out there for no reason other than hey, I've made this and just putting it out there, and I'm noticing on social media, I'm just putting stuff out, I'm fucking about with this. What do you think? Or like, not even what you think, but like you know, here's something I tried the other day and people are really loving it because I think it's also showing people that I mean, I'm not great at drawing, my flowers aren't realistic. I'm like, oh, I tried this, but it didn't work. And people are like, oh yeah, I've tried stuff that don't work either, and like, do you know what I mean? It's quite. I think it's nice to share processes 100%.
Speaker 1:For anybody listening who doesn't yet know, hells, I'm going to to disagree with her for a second. I think you're great at art. Stop putting yourself down, girl. No, I think you're really good, and that is the beauty of it, though. Especially with social media, you get to try something new and then get immediate and direct feedback from people who are already invested in you and your art. So that's really great, whereas when you put things on the streets, you put them up, you walk away and then you never know what people think and you hope that it's helping somebody or it's doing the benefit, or sometimes it's good to just put something up. But the reason that I loved your work, it was text and it was pink and white, it was messages to the world and I bet so many people because I did, I saw it and I was like, oh, that resonates.
Speaker 2:Oh, I feel that. Do you want to?
Speaker 1:talk a little bit about that and maybe tell people how we met.
Speaker 2:Oh my, God, I love our origin story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we met because, okay, so I was last year, I was doing a freelance job, so you still need money as an artist and I was working this lovely company in Brick Lane and every lunchtime I'd walk up and down Brick Lane and I'd see all the paste-ups and the graffiti and I just love it. I noticed this guy pasting this huge paste-up and I was watching him and he was look, he, I think I can, look, I have, I definitely have a resting bitch face. But I was looking at him and I must have been scowling or something, because he was like looking at me like what? Like as if I'm about to start something, and I was just like, oh sorry, no, no, I just really want to know how to do paste-ups, because I've never done them before and because my, my work is tech stuff, it's quite, they're kind of like poster-ish, my work's, like you know, quite graphic posters. I was like, actually, that makes so much sense for me to do paste-ups. Introduce myself as this guy social sniper, hi social sniper.
Speaker 2:Hi, social sniper, we love you and of us both yeah, he's amazing, he's so, oh my god, the nicest man. I was like I'm so sorry to be staring you down whilst you're pasting, but could you explain to me like what paste you use, like what paper? And he was, honestly, I'd say, single-handedly, shout out, changed my life in that sense. Like he was like here's the paper, here's the paste, here's what you do. He then introduced me to to art house and he was like you should make some paste ups and put it in this festival.
Speaker 2:And so I started following everyone on Instagram and they had a sticker swap down in where was it down? Around here, dalston, haggerson, haggerson, that's it. And it was a really cool sticker swap and I went, I went down. I mean, I could make friends in an empty room, I literally can talk to anyone. But I went down and I just started chatting to everyone and I saw this girl there and she had the most amazing neon eyeliner and I was like, excuse me, I love your fucking eyeliner. How have you done that? And it was you and you were like this is the eyeliner I use, this is it? And I was like fucking great. And I think, like you were so open to like, I was like I'm new to this, here's some stickers and I'll never forget it. You were like oh my god, come to my like, come to my flat and we'll do some paste ups. I'm like this stranger's invite I remember telling my boyfriend, my boyfriend's like who is this person?
Speaker 2:you're just going around to her flat. I was like no, no, she's really sweet. I was like she's not crazy she's not crazy, she's really sweet.
Speaker 2:My boyfriend's like you don't know this person. I'm like I'm gonna go to her flat, we're gonna do paste ups. And I came around that day you made me the best iced coffee I've ever had and we were going to go and paste up, do you remember? And then we end up sitting and chatting in your flat for hours, hours and then we were like, oh shit, we need to actually go out and do something.
Speaker 2:And you taught me like everything. I mean you and social sniper and shrug, just taught me everything that I didn't know about paste ups and from there I just it just opened up this whole world of one posters, paste up, sticker art. I never really kind of went down that route. When I was trying to be a really when I was a really shit graffiti artist, I was trying really hard. When I was like 17 I didn't know anything about paste ups or stickers or anything like that. So that you guys opened up this world to me, that I can make my work and just paste it all over London and just like show it all over London.
Speaker 1:It was amazing so yeah, so you need to take some credit yourself, because you were brave enough to put yourself out there first of all, talk to somebody doing art on the street. So that's great that you spoke to social sniper and he is so lovely and so helpful. He's super, super lovely. Another story for now, but for another time is he's the one who actually got me interested in getting on the radio, so I'll tell that story another time.
Speaker 2:He's basically just created me and you. I love it I know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when they ask about the origin story, it's social sniper. Every time I'm going to shout out. So you have to take some credit for being brave enough to go down to get in touch with all these people to find out about things and then putting yourself out there and going in and talking to people and making connections and networking, which you're really, really good at. Then being brave enough to go to a girl who could have been a weirdo. Thankfully you didn't think so.
Speaker 2:Oh, you could have been a total weirdo with your neon eyeliner, but I wasn't.
Speaker 1:But you weren't, yeah, coming down over to my flat and we sat down for hours and had a really great chat. It was so good. Then we went out and did some art and you were brave enough to put yourself out there and do that, so take that credit. You're really really good at networking and really good at meeting people, and you do a lot of curation for shows and you put a lot of shows together. That's a skill that you naturally have. You're naturally really good at talking to people and looking for these opportunities. It's true, you're really good at looking for these opportunities, seeing where you can support somebody yourself, and that's so important in the community. Yeah, to see somebody wants to learn, and I know how to do that thing, so let me teach them, and you're really great at that as well. And also empowering girls. We need more girls, yes, in street art.
Speaker 2:I just, yeah, I really really enjoy meeting people. I love meeting people. I love it. I could find something interesting in everyone. It's a skill that I've always had. What I say always when I was younger, I was basically mute. When I was young, I, like, was really shy when I was younger, really really shy. I remember my brother would have to order for me at a restaurant, so I was painfully shy. And then I just one day just woke up and went fuck that, I'm gonna talk and.
Speaker 2:I'm not gonna stop talking. You're waking up for last time. Yeah, I really enjoy meeting people everyone. I could talk to absolutely anyone and I can find something interesting in every single person. Even people that are so different to me and we have nothing in common. I can find something that I find interesting about them and I also love when people thrive. I fucking love seeing someone do well. Because of that, I'm very encouraging of other people and I want people to do well. I don't, I don't care if you do well, I don't care how you do well, I'm just happy that you've done well and I think I love seeing people happy.
Speaker 2:I love seeing people connect. I love this sounds again really cheesy I love seeing human connection, absolutely love it. So when I meet someone, I instantly want a human connection. I'm not very good at small talk. I'll go like deep straight Tell me about your relationship with your mother, let's talk. I don't care about your name, let's talk. I love a kind of human connection and I love seeing human connection in other people and I think because of that I find it quite easy to curate not curate people, that sounds weird, but curate situations for people. So curating shows or curating even just meeting. I love hooking people up. I love playing cupid. I'm not not very good at that, I've never had a success story in that, but I love it. I've always enjoyed seeing people do well, which sounds really cheesy, but it's true. I just love seeing people do well. That's beautiful, I love it. I'm like let's all do well, let's all thrive, yay and.
Speaker 1:I totally agree with you. I love when you put two people in contact with each other and then something takes off. I love it.
Speaker 2:it's so satisfying and it's not like I don't want anything back, I don't want to hit it, I don't, I don't need to like, oh, it's because of hell's this I don't need, I don't, I'm not interested in that, I'm just I like to see people moving forward and developing and something like you said, like a spark happening or something coming out of a meeting between two people. This is nice. That's what that, to me, is what life's about, like what. That's what we're all here for, right, let's, let's all come together, let's all. I'm gonna start singing please do.
Speaker 2:That'll make a great sign fight but you know, I mean, I just yeah, we're all, we're all in this city together, all on this planet together. Let's just like, let's just have a good time. Let's all be kind to each other.
Speaker 1:Let's just like, let's just have a good time.
Speaker 2:Let's all be kind to each other, let's all be kind, let's be nice. I mean, don't get me wrong, I can also be a bit of a bitch sometimes, but that's that's a different podcast. That's the tea.
Speaker 1:We'll do another podcast with that. No, I think that's really beautiful. So one of the questions I like to ask people is what brings you joy? But you've described a lot of things that brings you joy already, so what is it that makes you so happy?
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, everything. I think. For me, joy comes in so many different forms, even on the way here. This sounds really weird, but I saw a piece of rubbish on the floor. It was this beautiful pink colour, I don't know, it was like a packaging. It's like beautiful pink colour. Know, it's like a packaging. It's like beautiful pink color and it's like orange and I love that color combo. I was like oh god, that's nice. And I stopped to look at this piece of rubbish. I was like that's lovely that even that brings me joy. And then, yeah, like I love meeting new people, the thing that brings me the most joy and I think this is kind of going back to what you said about my art, with the kind of phrases I use what really brings me joy is is hearing people laugh, laughter.
Speaker 2:I just I love stand-up comedy. I love hearing laughter, I love seeing people smile. I think that's a lot of my art, my kind of original stuff Seeing just hearing people laugh. I was part of London Made Me, which was a mayor's initiative. Last year we had a shop in Carnaby Street and I had my posters up and one of my posters says an apple a day you die anyway. The amount of people that came into the shop and just laughed Like out loud, barely laughed, didn't buy the fucking thing by the way.
Speaker 2:Didn't fucking buy it, took pictures, laughed. But it's that laughter, just really. I was like that's what I'm making my art for. I mean, I would like to make it for money as well. If people want to pay me, that'd be great. But that's why I make art I want to hear people laugh. I had this. It's an ongoing project. If anyone wants to contribute to it, please do. It's an ongoing project.
Speaker 2:It's a question that says what would you say to the person that broke your heart? And some of the answers are just fucking brilliant, absolutely brilliant. And there's sad ones there. Fucking brilliant, absolutely brilliant. And there's sad ones. There's like, you know, there's really tough ones to read. And then there's really like really bitter ones, but it's like in a newspaper form and whenever I display it, just people stand there and they just laugh and they laugh and then they kind of get sad. You know they might stop in their tracks and go shit, that's. You know that's quite a hard-hitting one. Or they'll also be like oh my fucking god, this is about my ex-boyfriend or whatever. So I guess, yeah, what brings me to is, though, people resonating with stuff, people going that's me like, yeah, relating to something I like people being able to relate to each other. I love it when I, you know, make a piece of work and someone goes oh my fucking god, that's me, that's me.
Speaker 2:A piece of work I actually did last December, which was in the shop in Carnaby Street, and it's a saying that my mum used to say to me growing up when I was bored and as a kid I'd say, mum, I'm bored, I'm bored, and she'd say, only boring people get bored, and it used to wind me the fuck up. Oh my God, as a kid I'd be like, ah, she's like, only boring people get bored, and I'm like shut up. So I made it, I painted it onto a canvas. I'm talking 20, 30 people a day will come into that shop taking pictures of it. The amount of times I heard people say, oh my god, that's what my mum used to say to me. That's what my mum used to say to me parents, be like, that's what I say to my kids all the time. And it really it resonated with so many people. That's actually been one of my most successful pieces now. So I've sort of then created prints of it and stuff and because I hand print everything, it took ages but I was screen printing, everything you know. People went nuts for it because it resonated with them. It's like, oh, it reminded them of their mum or whatever or their friend, and that really brought me joy. That for me was like the absolute pinnacle of what I'm doing it for.
Speaker 2:I remember the original piece. The canvas got bought by this guy. He came running into the shop I've never I thought he was like being chased by the police. He came running into the shop and he was like, oh, thank god it's not sold. It was like the canvas on the wall and he was like I saw it through the window when the shop was closed, like two weeks ago, and I couldn't come back and I have to buy it, because my mum used to say this to me all the time. We had this really lovely conversation and he was just like my mum says it all the time and I say it to my kids now and he so he bought the canvas and that was just.
Speaker 2:I mean it wasn't an expensive piece of work. I didn't, you know, I couldn't dine out for weeks on it. It was quite a cheap piece of work that he bought, but it was priceless that for me, that it went to him and he'd come running in and like do you know what I mean? That sort of like that relationship he had to the work was better than any money. I mean obviously still enjoy the money, still want the money, but yeah, that's. That's a long way of telling you what brings me joy.
Speaker 1:It's making art that resonates with people that's it.
Speaker 2:That's the short version yeah, that's lovely.
Speaker 1:That's the thing about street art when you put something on the street, you walk away and you never really see people's reaction, unless they find you and reach out to you and let you know. But the fact that you could instantly see somebody who really loved it and could tell you the story about why he loved it and why it resonated with him, that's really special.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of the people who buy my art. I do ask them like would you mind sending me a picture of it when you put it up or whatever? And I very rarely get people doing that. They say they will and they never do, which is totally fine. I mean, you get it. You maybe don't want to send me the picture of their front room or whatever, but I just really that would be. I'd be so happy to see my art in someone's house. I actually, a couple of days ago I got a DM from someone I didn't know, a DM from someone I didn't know, a couple of pictures and it was one of my prints up in her house and she'd come to the shop in Carnaby Street. She bought it, found me on Instagram, whatever, took a picture and just sent me the picture Like no, didn't say anything, wasn't like hey, I bought one of your pieces, thought you might like to see it up, just like. Sent me like four different pictures of it in her house.
Speaker 2:And I was like I can't tell you how much this means to me. If you sell prints, especially, people buy it and they go off and you think, will that see the light of day? Where's it going, you know? And she put it like beautifully framed in her front room and I was just like I, honestly I was in tears, I mean I'm, I, was so happy because I was like there it is up in someone's house that someone's seeing every day like that. Oh, I love it. I loved it. That was so nice. So anyone who has my artwork please send me pictures of it up, even if it's fake up, put it up, take it down, take a picture.
Speaker 1:I love what you just said about the heartbreak pieces and who's broken your heart and what would you say to them? Have you ever heard of the Museum of Broken Relationships?
Speaker 2:Yes, oh my God it's one of my favourite places. It's in Croatia I think in Zagreb is where I visited.
Speaker 1:I spent hours and hours and hours in there. So what they do is they ask you to send an object that represents your heartbreak or not a heartbreak, a broken relationship. I hope I actually say in the name of the place, right? They ask you to send an object and then a short explanation of why it's meaningful, and I suppose for some people it's probably a bit of closure. But in there I laughed and I cried. I literally cried in there.
Speaker 1:It was so beautiful there was one really beautiful poem that it was an Irish lady actually. She'd sent a clothes peg and she wrote a beautiful poem and I won't do it justice so I won't try to recreate it, but it was about the loss of her mother ultimately, and the poem was painful to read and so beautiful and it was bawling, crying. I loved it so much that I could. I looked it up online, couldn't find it. I emailed them and asked them what was it called or can I find it, or do you have it on an archive on your website? They were so kind and messaged me back straight away and said yeah, we know exactly the piece you're talking about, and took a picture and sent me a photo of the poem as well, and again I cried because it was so beautiful.
Speaker 2:But it's that human connection yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's like we all go through loss, we all go through heartbreak. One thing about the piece the newspaper I made with everyone's answers in is every single person that's read it has said I really relate to this. I really like everyone will find something that they really relate to. But I think that's also kind of going back to the. What brings me joy is people relating to each other. I've created a piece of work that I could just leave there. You can pick it up, someone in somewhere else can pick it up and everyone will relate to it in some way. And I just I love that idea and I really want to see that a museum. It's been on my radar for a while.
Speaker 1:It looks amazing yeah, it's really, really great. It's just exactly what you said it's connection, whether it's happy or sad, if something makes you feel something. I think that's why we all do what we do. Exactly where we have a feeling, we need to express it. We want other people to relate to it or maybe feel a bit better or say, oh, somebody feels like me that's about.
Speaker 2:Do you know what that's? You've hit the nail on the head it's not feeling so alone. I suppose with the work I make, I like it that people relate because then I feel like hopefully it makes makes them feel like they're not alone in that feeling and I think that's a really important thing in the world to feel like you're not alone even when you feel the most lonely or the most alone you've ever felt. You need to know there's other people out there who've been there, done that feel, feel the same thing and understand you kind of thing Definitely.
Speaker 1:I totally agree when we talk about connection. One of the things that I love about doing art is the community, the way that we met and that you met, social Sniper, and it leads one connection to another, to another, to another, and something that you do is you do group shows and you promote other people, especially female artists, and you're always building people and encouraging people, which is such an amazing thing to be doing. I would love to hear more about some of the people that you've met. Has there been anybody who has had a particular impact on you?
Speaker 2:I think every single artist I've done shows with or had in my group shows has made an impact in some way. Often it's not their art that has made an impact, it's them themselves, and I think I try and curate group shows as much as possible and it's always female shows and I think women coming together always sparks fly with women, really positive sparks fly with. I'm not talking, we all batter each other. I've every group show I've done with female artists there's been something brilliant to come out of it, because two women have met, got talking, something sparked, and then whatever so, now that you are freelance, I would love to talk a little bit about goal setting and the dream.
Speaker 1:Is there something that is the dream that you're working towards?
Speaker 2:okay, this is so interesting. It's like you've read my mind, because this is all I've been thinking about recently. I used to be very goal-driven, very, very, very goal-driven in, especially when I was in my career, it was the next promotion, the next um step up in the career ladder. I was so goal-driven so when I became freelance, I thought I'd be really goal-driven, like, okay, I want a solo show and I want to be in this gallery. I want to do that.
Speaker 2:The minute I stepped out of the career that I was in, I had no goals. I had absolutely none in the sense that I didn't focus on goals. I was just like I just want to do everything, I want to try things, I want to see what where life takes me, in the sense that I now just do. I just continue through my days, my weeks, my life, just doing and seeing where it takes me, in the sense that I now just do. I just continue through my days, my weeks, my life, just doing and seeing where it takes me. If you told me that a year ago, I'd be like there's no way I'm so goal driven. I'm so like determined and getting to where I want to be. There's no way that will ever falter Totally forward. That's just not me anymore. I kind of oh God again this is going to sound cheesy I just want to be happy. And I realise what I'm doing now makes me so happy. As simple as I work with a really lovely company called Picasso's in the Park which do art classes for kids. It's twice a week. I'm a teaching assistant with them and I love it and it makes me so happy. And it's like I didn't have the goal to teach kids art. That wasn't a goal of mine. I never thought I'd be interested in teaching kids art. These two sessions a week I do are like my most happiest because I'm making art. I'm like I'm literally being paid to like, paint a picture of a snake. What were we doing the other day? Tutankhamun why would I want to paint a picture of Tutankhamun? Loved it Seeing the kids painting the gold.
Speaker 2:I realise now my goals are to enjoy what I'm doing. Don't get me wrong. That sounds really idealistic. And there are days when obviously you know I'm doing my taxes or I've got my admin to do, or I'm picking up a couple of odds and bits here that I have to do money-wise, that I have to do money wise. That sounds worse than it doesn't. Nice things, but like there are. You know, freelance isn't completely idealistic. There's some tough bits that you have to go through and there's boring admin you've got to do, but ultimately I'm happy every day of my life now, whereas before I was happy, let's be honest. I was happy on a Friday night after work when I was drinking, or I was happy on a Saturday Sunday. I had the dread for the next week. So, like, looking back at my life, I was miserable six days a week. Now I'm happy every day and that's my goal.
Speaker 2:It should just continue to be happy, whether that is teaching kids art, even if it's like picking up odd jobs here and there that I enjoy doing. It's just to be happy, I guess is my goal, that's the perfect goal.
Speaker 1:I think that's ultimately what we all want. It may be that people think reaching those targets or those goals will be the thing that brings them happiness. You've skipped that. You're just saying just take me straight to the happiness, please.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, yeah, I know that because for 10-15 years I thought the same. If I become director of photography, that will make me happy. If I get a pay rise, that will make me happy. But the minute you get that, that's not you chasing happiness, that's you chasing a goal. That's a tangible goal and I think as soon as you get that goal and you're like, right done, you're gonna naturally look for the next one. You're never going to be happy in that sense. But also happiness. That's not saying that for the rest of my life I'm going to be teaching kids art and making art.
Speaker 2:That could change in two years time. We could sit back here and I could be I don't know. I could turn around and go. Do you know what I realized? I wanted to be a lawyer and I could be a lawyer. But as long as I'm happy, that's the only thing I care about. And some people are happy with the nine to five, and good for them. You know, I mean, I was for a while. So it's finding happiness in what you do, regardless of what that is, and it's hard. I'm very aware that I am lucky that I have that mentality. It like it can be a struggle.
Speaker 1:So I love a quote and a lot of your pieces are words that you have felt or thought or things that resonate with other people. Do you have a favorite quote that comes to mind?
Speaker 2:I have a favorite quote. It's a the first, first bit of a poem and it says and I'm gonna be quoting this wrong, I'll do my best. It says, uh, they fuck you up, your mom and dad. They may not mean to, but they do. They fill you with all the faults they had and add some extra just for you. And I just find I like that part of the poem. Just, it makes me laugh, it makes you cry, it's like really resonates. You can really relate to it. We're all fucked up by our parents and we're all going to fuck up our own kids if we have kids one day. I say that at the moment because a lot of my you know I'm at the age where all my friends are having babies and stuff and everyone's reading these books and I'm like you mustn't do this because it's going to give them child anxiety. Your kid's going to be fucked.
Speaker 1:We're all fucked. Is this the tap top you give to your friends?
Speaker 2:This is what I give to the kids in art class. I'm like you're all fucked, we're all fucked. No, but it's true, we all have our issues. Every single person in this world is walking around with some sort of issue going on and I think that quote for me, that beginning of that poem, really it ticks all the boxes for me. It's funny, it's real, it's quite sad. You know, your parents fuck you up because they're fucked up. That's what they're saying. They fuck you up because they're fucked up and they're going to make add extra fuck up just for the spice of it.
Speaker 1:I just I'd love to give a little bit of context for anyone listening to this that Hal's texted me before the pod and said can I swear? And I was like you can swear as much as you fucking want, and she is coming through Fuck fuck, fuck.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that's definitely one of my favourite quotes and it is a part of the poem. But yeah, I get ideas for text pieces everywhere. As soon as you pull them out and put them on a canvas, it kind of highlights I think that's where the humour comes from is taking these words and kind of putting them in a space that you don't expect to see something like that, and it kind of highlights that and makes it. It kind of just makes I like to make a joke out of everything as well. I really do enjoy taking the piss out of life. I find life quite funny. I always do. I find life hilarious.
Speaker 2:I was on the way here and there was these two guys on the bus in front of me and they were just chatting. They obviously knew each other but weren't great friends, and they were having quite an awkward conversation. I was just finding it really funny because of how awkward it was. And then they were having quite an awkward conversation. I was just finding it really funny because how awkward it was. And then they were like they went to get off the bus. I think they oh, they both went bye. So you're like, yeah, bye, nice to meet you. Yes, nice to see you again, like say hi to beth for me or whatever, and they're like yeah, bye. And you could see the relief on both their faces like fuck, that's over. And then they got off at the same stop and were walking the same way. And the embarrassment and awkwardness. I could not stop laughing. I just find life funny. I find things like that hilarious.
Speaker 1:The observed comedy that you see out and about. I was on a train the other day and I had the exact same situation Well, not the exact same. It was two people who were going for a walk together, I guess, and they clearly didn't know each other very well. And the guy had a newspaper and he was reading out the horoscopes and he said watch your star sign. And she said libra and he went oh no it was just really funny.
Speaker 2:Hilarious, yeah, I don't. I find it. I don't like you know, like people falling down and stuff. I don't find that funny I don't like laughing at people. I don't mean that's nice. I find life very funny. I find it hilarious these little moments like that, where you just or like these awkward interactions between people, and that's also why I don't. I don't get awkward, because I just find it funny. I laugh at myself all the time. Awkward moments, embarrassing moments I've had, I just find hilarious.
Speaker 1:Can you tell us an embarrassing story I've had?
Speaker 2:millions, I don't know. Oh God, I've had loads. I think I'm quite embarrassing. I don't know, I don't think I'm very smooth, God. I've had loads of embarrassing moments. I can't think of one at the moment.
Speaker 1:But yeah.
Speaker 2:I moment but yeah, I just find life funny. We have to look at life with humor, and you definitely do.
Speaker 1:I have to make a joke out of most things, but that's probably why you see life with so much joy.
Speaker 2:I do. I just love it. I mean, don't get me wrong. I think I try to find joy in everything because I have. I understand how bad sadness can be and I have had very, very low times and I've have had very, very sad times. Deep down I can have quite a darkness inside which I fully accept and I not celebrate, but I understand and I accept and I go. Do you know what? It's part of me. I do have these sad low times, but because I know how dark and sad I can get, I don't ever want anyone else to feel that. So I want to uplift people because I know how sad and difficult your mind can be, you know. So I'm like if I can make sure someone else isn't feeling that way, I'll do whatever the fuck it takes. I'll fall over a million times if I have to and thanks for the honesty there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, sometimes it's hard for people to admit that things can be hard and life can be difficult and you can struggle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, thanks for the honesty and I think that's why what I'm really looking forward to actually in my artwork is exploring that side of me I do. Often my work's very jovial and funny, which I really enjoy because I want to hear people laugh and I want to bring people joy. But there's a whole side of me that I haven't explored for fear of exploring it, because I don't want to go there, but it's also relevant to other people. So basically, I need to do, I need to take a month out just to get deep. I need to sit in my studio and just start exploring those thoughts and those times when I do get dark and I do get sad and I do get low. Those thoughts and those times when I do get dark and I do get sad and I do get low. I'm getting better at accepting it and understanding that it's okay, this is how I feel. It's okay. You'll come out the other side but actually starting to really look into it and go okay, but what are your feelings? Like vocalize, like start writing stuff down.
Speaker 2:I've always, since I was a kid, I've written. I just write. I constantly write. I've always kept I haven't kept diaries, but I've always. I do it in forms of letters. I write letters to people and I'll never send them, but I'll write a letter to whoever I'm, you know, and unless I was going for a breakup, I'd write pages and pages and pages of my feelings to that person. Babe, I've got like five boxes full of these letters.
Speaker 2:I've not, I've not reread any of them because I just I kind of don't want to because there's some sad things in there, but I want to sit one day and just get them out and start reading them and pulling pits of text out and start working with that. I need to be in the right frame of mind for that definitely.
Speaker 1:I love that you have this record of pain or maybe happiness or whatever, and now you can look back and take inspiration from it and share it with other people. That's really amazing.
Speaker 2:I did pull out one because I found an old sketchbook of mine from a time when I was going through this really horrible I want to say. It was a relationship. It wasn't, it was some. I was having sex with a guy who didn't give a shit about me. Basically was the situation, and I was thought I was in love and I was writing to him in this notebook. Obviously he never saw it. It never saw the light of day, found it the other day in a box and I was reading through it and I was like I got it, got a few pages in.
Speaker 2:I was like god, but there were so many things in that that I was like I started thinking about friends of mine maybe have gone through the same sort of thing or have sort of said similar things to me and I'm like there's so much in here that I can look into. I just need to figure out. I'm quite an open book but there's that part of me that I haven't opened yet and I just don't know how to do that, so that's, that's like my next thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, watch the space watch this space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hell's gets dark. It's black paper and black and silver yeah, black and silver, gold and pink. Yeah, imagine that would be pretty cool, quite cool actually, and then we can look at it and we're like jovial hells or oh, dark hells. Yeah, dark hells, I love it.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, I've just thought it could be a nice black with black ink. So you can't really read it unless it's in the right light a matte black paper with shiny black text I'm gonna go to my studio straight off and dig out these things an idea was born.
Speaker 2:An idea was born here but yeah, I think because I naturally I've pushed that side of me down so far. I've made very bright, colorful, glittery, jovial, because that's easier and I can do that while still resonating with people, because people still relate to it. I'd be interested to see how I tackle that side of me.
Speaker 1:So we're going to have to watch what hell this is up, to see what comes next, oh God.
Speaker 2:That's exciting, though I know it is, but because I've put my full energy into my art, now I'm starting to really develop these things, which I would never have done if I'd stayed in my job. Because you don't, you don't have time, you don't have the mental capacity, you're fucked by the end of the day, you're completely exhausted, whereas now I'm like I have the emotional and mental capacity to start delving in deep.
Speaker 1:I can't imagine trying to have your 95 where you have to be super professional, yeah, and then go home and open up a box of heartbreak, essentially and feel all the feelings again, yeah, then go back to work normally, yeah the next day.
Speaker 2:Well, you can do it if you turn into an alcoholic or not advised by the way.
Speaker 2:Do not recommend, do not recommend yeah, and I think that's the thing I mean. I was. You know, I was very good at my job. I held my job in very, very high regard. It was very important to me and I enjoyed certain aspects of it. So that importance and that that focus and importance I put on my job took over everything. So by the end of the day I was exhausted. I'd come home, which not I'm not saying this is a bad thing if this is how people live, and that's absolutely fine, and if you're happy, that's fine but I was coming home and I was just just trying to switch off because I was so exhausted, whereas actually I was switching off a lot of my feelings, my emotions and everything for years.
Speaker 1:They are switched back on now and now we're seeing it all over London. Poor London now has to bear the brunt of me not working. London is delighted, let me tell you, do you have any advice for people who were in your position and would like to make the same leap of faith that you have?
Speaker 2:I have loads of advice unsolicited.
Speaker 1:Tell us.
Speaker 2:The biggest advice, if you are looking to go freelance, you're looking to put energy into your art, first things first is really handle your financial situation. I think it's so hard and it's so easy for me to say, because I did it but trying to get a kind of buffer. So if you are looking to leave your job, if you're looking to go freelance, get yourself three to six months buffer financially. That means that you're not worried about paying your bills. Just get that sorted if you can. Obviously. And my biggest advice is talk to everyone. You don't know who someone is. Talk to people and show people that you're interested, but also that you don't know what you're doing. I think often people feel like they have to kind of bulge their way in and be like I'm an artist, I know what I'm doing, I'm the best. Got someone go, like I did with you hey, babe, I don't know how to do a paste up, how'd you do it? Your reaction was I'll teach you. If someone came up to me and was like I really like what you're doing, how did you do it? I'm going to help them. I want to give. I think just be your genuine self and ask for help. Tell people your situation. I went freelance. I was like guys, I'm terrified. I've been working for 10 years. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm absolutely terrified. Help. And everyone's like oh, help, yeah, cool, like you know what I mean as well. Just talk to everyone. If there's something you want to do, let's say you want to. I don't know, make a sculpture. You've never made sculptures before. You want to make a bronze sculpture? Look up bronze sculpture artists and reach out to them and say I don't know what I'm doing. Love your stuff. Can you give me advice? Just just do it, just go again.
Speaker 2:I feel like I can say that easily because I naturally do just talk to people. But even before, when I was trying to get into the world of magazines, you know, I would just cold email people hey, I have no experience, could I shadow you for a week or could I come and meet you and take you out for coffee? I've had people message me, dming or emailing whatever, and just saying can I pick your brains or take you for a coffee? Yeah, of course. And then, like, lovely things happen. Reach to people. That's what I'd say. Talk to everyone and also, don't be a dick. Just, I think some, and I'm probably guilty of it too. I think some people can, when they're scared, put up a front, and that front can be quite rude or quite dickish. Just understand your feelings. If you're nervous, if you're scared, that's fine, that's a human emotion, that's absolutely fine to be. Just don't be rude, don't be nasty. Just say I'm scared, I don't know what I'm doing. Help, there we are excellent advice.
Speaker 1:Really, there's so much in that to discuss. There's the vulnerability of saying I don't know what I'm doing. So many people want to fake it like they know exactly what they're doing. The thing that I come to everything with is the honesty and the vulnerability that I don't know and asking the questions and, being very honest, I actually don't know much about this, but I'd love to learn if you can teach me and by the end of that I will know something and maybe I can share that with someone else. It's very important to be vulnerable because people see that you're coming with a genuine curiosity.
Speaker 2:That yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, you have to remember that everyone started not knowing, yeah, what they're doing. I mean, people weren't born knowing how to paint perfect. People weren't born with the best tags and throw-ups, like they had to learn these things. There are, you'll find people who are like oh no, I'm just naturally talented. Okay, whatever, you have to practice, you have to, you have to practice, you have to put the time in, and I think that's sort of what you're saying about the genuineness. If you're genuinely interested in something, you're going to learn about it, you're going to want to practice. And I think if you put yourself out there and just say I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm willing to learn, that's the first step.
Speaker 1:And the amount of doors that will open will respond well to that. It's as simple as that. What a perfect bit of advice to end the show on.
Speaker 2:So talk to people, be authentic, be genuine be curious yeah, and you never know what's going to happen yeah and actually a good piece of advice that someone gave to me is say yes to everything. Which is funny because a lot of people tell me, as a freelancer, you know, you know, you need to learn how to say no. You need to learn how to say no and yes, you do. But I do have the mentality of I say yes to everything and I'll figure it out later. And actually I remember I said in a job interview once and this line got me the job. The guy told me afterwards everything is figureoutable. Yes, everything is figureoutable. If you can imagine it, you can do it. Everything is figureoutable. If you you want to work full time and juggle an art career, you can do it. You can figure it out. Everything's figureoutable. Say yes to as many things as you can and just go for it. Just try it, do it. Also, don't be afraid of failure. If something fails, it fails. That's absolutely fine.
Speaker 2:I have failed so many times in my career. I could tell you some stories from my career that I have absolutely failed and bombed. And I look back and I'm like, holy God, I really did badly there. Fail, fail as much as you can, just keep failing. It's fine, because also the world's not going to end. You're not a brain surgeon. No one's life is in your hands, right? And I always think to myself if this fails, no one's gonna die, and because of that I'll just try everything. You know what I mean. I won't try brain surgery because I know I'll fail and someone will die but aside as the exception no brain surgery no, but everything else I'll give my hands.
Speaker 2:I'll try, but just fail. Fail as much as you can. Yeah, who cares? Like all right, you failed and no one cares. Tomorrow someone else will fail, you know you made a tit of yourself who cares just do it, make up, make a fool of yourself, fail figure out why it felt yeah, figure out why it failed, take lesson, or fail and go.
Speaker 2:I failed, I can't be asked to do that again. All right, then you've ticked that off your box. You don't want to do that again. Move on. Try something else. Fail as much as possible. That's my advice. Fail every day.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. I see a book in your future by that name Fail every day, fail every day. There is the title of a book by Marie Forleo I might have said that wrong and David Speed, who's one of our fellow street artists, says that all the time.
Speaker 2:It's my favourite and I said it once in a job interview and yet the guy said it was between me and this other lady and I got the job because of that quote, because everything is figureoutable. It might be tough, but everything's figureoutable. And the more experiences you have in life, so of things to figure out, and the more experiences you have in life, so the more times you've failed and the more things you've tried out, the more you realize you can figure everything out.
Speaker 1:And if you can't figure it out, ask someone else there's other people with the expertise, yeah, that you might need and they can teach you something and they can teach you something.
Speaker 2:If you can't do it, figure out someone who can and work with them. Be nice, nice, work with them and you'll get there.
Speaker 1:One of my colleagues said we were talking about failure and about trying difficult things and they might not work out, and that's fine. Basically, we were both of the stance that's fine, we try, we fail, we learn from it, we do something else. And he said this amazing quote I wrote down straight away and I'm going to paint it. And it says if you've never failed, you're not trying hard enough. You know, he's not trying to be inspirational, he just said this so naturally if you've never failed, you you're not trying hard enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like I'm going to paint that I'm going to blazing that on my wall. But also I have learned throughout my life. I have learned more from what not to do than I've learned from what has gone right. A colleague of mine once said years ago it was like you learn more from what not to do than what to do. And the amount of things I've learned from times I've gone right well, that's not well, don't do that again. And they're lessons also that will stick with you longer when you really fuck up.
Speaker 1:It's hard to remember sometimes when you do fail really fuck up. It's hard to remember sometimes when you do fail at something. It's hard to remember and it's it's easy to look back in hindsight and be like, well, at least I learned something from that, but at the time it can be devastating, oh it's devastating.
Speaker 2:I'm now very much of a mentality, even when it happens in the moment. I know. Now I'm like I'll be fine, this is fine, it's gonna be fine because, again, I'm not doing brain surgery, I'm not saving anyone's life. If I fail, it doesn't hurt any. I'm not harming anyone hopefully, anyway, unless someone's like this is like a dm from someone's like actually you really hurt me every time you fail someone is deeply invested in your career deeply invested in who I am and they're like actually you're really upsetting me.
Speaker 1:I think it's unlikely. We're gonna hope that's not happening out there, if I hurt anyone from my failures.
Speaker 2:Please let me know. Actually, don't let me know.
Speaker 1:No, we sometimes it's better to not know. Ignorance bliss we don, bliss we don't want to know. Okay, so Hel's unbelievable advice to end the show on Do you have anything exciting coming up at the moment?
Speaker 2:I have a couple of very exciting things. One I'm working on a public mural for a community centre in my local park. It's an early years hub where me and my brother actually went when we were kids. I'm working with the children that use the space. I'm working with the community to design and paint a mural which I'm so excited about because it's a building I walk past every day. It's such a heart of the community and I've met some amazing people just through that. And then I'm working with Barge East, a bar in Hackney Whip. I'm organising with them a big installation, let's say on their terrace bar. So they've got this really nice covered kind of wooden terrace and they've asked me if I'd be interested in kind of curating something on that terrace.
Speaker 2:So I've decided to go down the paste up route thanks to you and social sniper to hopefully kind of make it a celebration of paste ups, because I think there's a art and paste-ups which I'm really enjoying learning and seeing from people like you. I want this terrace to be a place where artists come have a drink. I think the great thing about paste-up it's so accessible. Any artist non-artist I mean we're I think we're all artists in our own way, but anyone can make a paste-up yeah, any size, any shape, any colour. It's so accessible and I want people to understand how accessible it is, but also to feel like I could do this. Yeah, I think that's also that again, going back to like lifting people up and being like you can do it. Come on. I want to make this terrace like a destination to see paste ups in London, where you can have a drink as well and some nice food.
Speaker 1:That is fantastic and well done for again curating other people, getting other people involved, involving the community. I love that idea. It's going to be fabulous. I can't wait to see it. So you're going to have to share all about that journey and that process. I'm sure people are very keen to hear yeah, yeah, so that people can find you. You where can we find you on socials?
Speaker 1:so she's instagram hells gibson h-e-l-l-s gibson all one word make sure that you go and check hells and her art out. Follow the journey of her exploring her creativity. Hells I can't thank you enough for coming and spending time with me. You are such a joy to be around and you have the best, most enthusiastic energy, and I wish that anybody listening to this could spend time with you so they could experience it as well they can come and hang out with me.
Speaker 2:I love hanging out with people yeah, you're a people person. This is let's hang out whoever you are, this is an invite.
Speaker 1:Yeah, open invite to hang out there. You have it an exclusive open invite to go see health. Nobody health. It has been such a pleasure to spend time with you and to be able to ask you these questions and hear your story and your journey and your vulnerability and also, most importantly, your advice at the end talk to people, be kind and admit when you don't know what you're doing, so people can help you. What a special message. Thank you so much thank you.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's been amazing. Thanks, babe. Yay, I love it I love it.
Speaker 1:There you have it. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of this is disruption. If you enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to follow the podcast and never miss an episode. You can find us on all major podcast platforms apple podcast, spotify, etc. Stay connected with us on social media. You can find the podcast at thisisdisruptionpod on Instagram and TikTok and you will find updates and snippets of upcoming shows. Until next time, keep challenging the status quo, embracing your creative spirit, and be brave. Go and create. Thank you and see you in the next episode.