This is Disruption
This is Disruption podcast explores the pursuit of creativity and shares the stories of the fearless creators in street art, graffiti, music, photography and beyond, who boldly challenge the status quo, break barriers for others and share their work unapologetically. Each episode is a deep dive interview exploring the lives of artistic risk takers, exploring their motivations, their inspirations, and their take on the power of art, in whatever form they make it in.
The podcast is hosted by Irish street artist and DJ, Did by Rua, based in London.
This is Disruption
BeatFox: Inspiring Others With Beatboxing And Street Art
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Super excited to share this conversation with the legend BeatFox, the UK's three-time Vice Beatbox Champion and an incredibly talented calligraphy artist, who shares his journey in the fusion of sound and art.
Raised in a time without the tools we now take for granted like YouTube, BeatFox honed his beatboxing skills by mimicking everyday noises, proving that unconventional methods and sheer determination and passion can lead to artistic mastery. His story is one of resilience and creativity, where structured techniques blend seamlessly with spontaneous freestyling, leading to him now inspiring the children he now runs workshops for to find their own unique voices amidst life's many sounds.
This conversation was a special one. Earlier this year, I played a 10 minute radio edit of this conversation, and to this day, it is the interview I still receive the most positive feedback from. In this longer version, we have the chance to delve into the art of adaptation in BeatFox's life and career. Discover how missteps and a second-place finish in a competition fueled his determination and growth, while collaborations with other artists and diverse cultural influences have enriched his creative expression.
This episode also explains BeatFox’s journey into street art, ignited by the constraints of lockdown, and his determination to learn calligraphy, which sparked a new artistic direction and became a tale of transformation, where street art became a canvas for personal and community renewal. His journey is a testament to how creativity can thrive even in adversity. BeatFox shares how graffiti and calligraphy became tools for storytelling and empowerment, encouraging others to embrace their passions and create meaningful art and brighten the urban canvas we find ourselves in here in London.
This is a fantastic episode filled with rich insights and the vibrant energy of a true creative spirit.
You can find BeatFox on his website or on Instagram here, be sure to check him out.
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Hello there. You are very welcome to. This is Disruption podcast, with me, your host Rua. This podcast brings you in-depth interviews with the fearless creatives in street art, graffiti, music, photography and beyond, who boldly challenge the status quo, break barriers for others and share their work unapologetically. Each episode is a deep dive into the lives of artistic risk-takers, exploring their motivations, their inspirations and their reasons for their willingness to disrupt societal norms. Some of these stories involve revolutionising their industries, while others are pushing the boundaries of legality with their art. Coming up on today's episode.
Speaker 2:I love having that element of just playing around as well, like I've done. The seriousness of the work. Now I'm just kind of freestyling over here. That's why I'm doing this. You know, like one, I enjoy doing it. But to making what people just walk past or scuttle past, stop and look at you know it's a beautiful thing. Having any kind of creative outlet is so important because you're going to go insane. You can work on any job and you can do these things, but you need to go out and be creative.
Speaker 1:In this episode, I'm chatting with Beatbox, who is a super talented beatboxer artist and all around legend. I played a short radio edit of this conversation on my radio show earlier this year and to date, I have never had such positive feedback on any interview. The word that came up constantly was inspiring, and that is exactly what BeatFox is. I'm super excited to share this conversation with you. Welcome back to another great episode. As always, sit back, relax or, even better, go and create something. As you listen to this, this is Disruption. Something as you listen to this, this is.
Speaker 2:Disruption.
Speaker 1:BFox, let's try this again. Let's go. It is so wonderful to have you here. Thank you so much for coming and speaking with me today. I have been super keen to talk to you for ages because you do the two things that I love, which is art and music, and I really want to pick your brains about how you do both of those and how you manage to have time to do everything that you're doing so in your own words. Can you tell me a little bit about who you are and what do you do?
Speaker 2:I am a beatboxer, slash calligraphy artist and I basically someone said this to me recently, so it's resonating in my head I wake up every day and do what I want to do.
Speaker 1:That is the dream. Well, I'm living it. Yeah, so you're somebody who's living the dream. I love that art and music. Yeah, I would love to hear a bit more about your origin story. You originally started out beatboxing, yeah, and you are now a really established street artist with a very distinctive style. In my opinion. I think a lot of people will agree with me. How did you discover beatboxing? How did you realize that you had such a talent for it, and how did you develop the talent?
Speaker 2:well, I was a very annoying kid. I was um, born in 89, and when I grew up there was no youtube. I couldn't just, you know, go and type something and learn. So when I was younger, I always made noises. For some reason, I just always made noises. And as I grew up, I learned more sounds, whether it was birds like or anything that I listened to. I just tried replicating it. And then one day I was in the bath and I've gone While my ears were submerged and, yeah, it sounded like there was a drum kit in my head, basically, and that satisfied me a lot. So I just started making more noises that satisfied me. And then, as I grew again, my vocabulary of noises got more and more and I started replicating songs, found timing and drum sounds, and then, when I was maybe about 13, someone come up to me and they were like oh my god you can beatbox.
Speaker 2:I didn't know it had a name, you know I was just doing it. I saw films like, uh, police Academy with Michael Winslow and I was like, oh my god, this guy's like me. You know he's making noises like me. And yeah, when I discovered that it was called beatboxing, tried researching it as much as possible, found some mp3 files and kind of really listened to these files, I was like, how are these guys making these noises? And most on the first attempt I could make most of them and some I had to really sit and figure out.
Speaker 2:But there was no lesson for me to learn. You know I couldn learn. You know I couldn't see the way their mouths moved. It was just an mp3 file. So for me my style and my sound is a lot more unique, because I've created a sound that isn't the organic way how to make it. I made it on how I thought it was made, not how they were making it. So a lot of my sounds are inwards, not outwards, or outwards not inwards, if that makes any sense yeah so my breathing pattern is different to a lot of beatbox beatboxers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then as I grew older I found out about the beatbox championships and there was a whole community of people doing it, a global community. Now, yeah, I just kind of grew within myself and got a lot more confidence doing it, ended up going into the battles. I'm the three-time UK Vice Beatbox Champion and Regional Champion in other areas and yeah, it just kind of that kind of snowballed for me. I didn't do well in school and music just kind of took a hold of me and I was very comfortable doing it and seeing where it took me.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. So it's something that was just an ability you had from a young age, that you were able to develop by ear, by sound, by practicing. Is there anything now for kids who want to be a beatboxer? Are there like academies for them to go? And yeah, there is.
Speaker 2:So there's a thing called the bac, the batsy art center, and it's the beatbox academy there that they hold and they've got several lessons. But then also you've got world champion beatboxers globally that sit on skype and teach people. You know you can have one-on-one sessions with champions that can teach their techniques to you. It's just crazy now that you can have a phone call with someone in america and they can teach you their abilities. Yeah, it's nuts.
Speaker 2:It's evolved much, even the fact that I was in Indonesia one time in a tiny little island and this kid went running over to his parents, came back with a phone typed in my friend's name on YouTube and showed me a video of my friend and I was like I know him access to this, you know, because I didn't even have access to that when I was his age. So people now their starting point is world champions. They're looking at people that are insanely talented at what they're doing and learning from that, rather than just hearing a small skit in a movie that I started from, you know. So the levels are constantly changing so much and there's nine-year-olds that are doing stuff that is insane I love that movie.
Speaker 1:By the way, it's so good. We had that on video when I was growing up. We used to watch that all the time. Yeah, great movie. The world has expanded so much and children are now able to learn. When you went from being a kid who was practicing by yourself getting really good learning just by doing when you went to your first championship, how did it feel to be there, to be taking part?
Speaker 2:it was crazy for me because I'd never really seen myself was good at anything, you know. So, like any competition, any race, anything kind of involved anything other than tech and I was pretty good at tech and when I was younger, but yeah, anything else I was like I'm, I'm never gonna win anything, like I'll never get a trophy, I'll never get a medal.
Speaker 2:So for me to enter this and be confident in myself was a massive thing and it kind of built me up a lot, you know, and gave me a lot of confidence within myself. So I actually do workshops and go to schools and this is what I tell them. I'm like you won't be an expert beatboxer from the end of today, but you will feel a lot better about yourself and a lot more confident. And it's great for me to show that, because if I had myself teach myself when I was their age, I'd be 10 years ahead of myself you know, so it's really nice to kind of feel this confidence and what it fills me with.
Speaker 2:But yeah, the entering the championships, they had a car as the prize and I just got my driving license. So I really, really wanted this new car. But yeah, I came second. That was gutting for me because I had so much confidence in myself. But then it showed me, you know, like got practice more, you know you're not good enough, you've got to practice more.
Speaker 1:That is amazing. Some people take coming second place or not coming first place, whatever it might be. Some people would take that so hard and say, oh, I didn't make it, I give up. Now, when you take something where you didn't come first place and it drives you more, that just shows that you have a really powerful energy. That just shows that this is something that you really want to do, yeah, and you're going to achieve it.
Speaker 2:And also I go with the element of freestyle, like I don't really plan too much, because sometimes when I plan I put so much pressure on myself and then when something doesn't go to plan in my head, I'm like oh no, no, no. So if I'm just freestyling and free-flowing and replying to what's coming at me, it can't go wrong because there is no plan, you know, know. So I love that element. And because I came second, I was like, well, I came second without planning. All the people I beat had a plan. They practiced their routines for weeks and I just came and freestyled and that, for me, showed a lot.
Speaker 2:And then the next year I was like, cool, let me no dairy. Like I put a lot of pressure on myself, I trained, and because I put so much pressure on myself, I came third. I think that year and it hurt me a lot more than coming second because I'd put all this pressure on all this training and cut out dairy, you know. And yeah, I didn't need to do that because all the pressure was in my head, whereas actually if I just relaxed and freestyled and just went with what's natural to me, it went a lot better that's a lesson for you.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's the same with my art. A lot of time when I go and tackle a wall, I'll take so much stuff with me, use about half of it because I don't go with a plan. I just put it all in front of me.
Speaker 1:Look at the wall, look what I've got and kind of make it up as I go yeah, we'll talk a bit more about this in a little while, but I just have this belief that creativity flows the way that it should do, and if you try to plan and organize the creativity too much, it's a bit of a hindrance. It's not really flowing through you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like a bad commission when the client is just like, can you do that? And you're like that's not as easy as just doing that. It'd take me two, three hours to just do that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that hint about Tekken. By the way, I love Tekken so much that when I was a kid we had Tekken 3 on the PlayStation. When we were kids, my mum would come in and my brother and I turn off our PlayStation and say go outside and play, get some sunshine. And we would go outside and fight each other as if we were playing Tekken. So I love that Classic. But back to being on track. So that is a really good lesson when you can play somewhere and take something from it, no matter where you place. If you've learned something, I think you've really taken away something there.
Speaker 1:It's so cool that you go and inspire kids with your music. What's it like working in schools and getting to inspire a younger generation? Has there ever been a takeaway moment that you'd like to talk about?
Speaker 2:There's been a couple. The main recurring thing that I do notice, though, is a lot of the kind of louder, immature kids you know. When you go into a classroom you can see the ones that you know kind of play up to the teacher. They go quite quiet when you put a mic in front of them, but the shy and quieter kids really come out of their shell with the beatboxing, because that was me when I was younger. I was the weird quiet kid that made a lot of noises.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's really nice to see certain people come out there, and the one question I ask because there's so, like, if I do five classrooms a day, that's 30 kids times five and I ask who's got a unique sound, who has a sound that they can make that they think someone else can't make, and it's really nice seeing what these kids come up with. A lot of them can do things like this, and technically that's called a click roll in the beatbox world, but just figuring out that you can do that at such a young age is a great thing, you know, and making them hone in on you know having that ability, because English language, our mother tongue, isn't very strong, but you get languages that roll their R, people that can't even speak and roll their R because the English language doesn't require you to do that. So people that speak other languages already have an advantage because they can add different a palette of sounds organically to this. Yeah, it's quite nice to see that within certain groups and certain schools, what sounds can be made.
Speaker 1:That's really cool. I bet if you're talking to kids who have different backgrounds, who might speak different languages, or their parents speak different languages, or their cousins or wherever their families live abroad, you're probably getting a whole range of sounds that kids didn't know they could make.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, I've got a friend called toya and she's from a zulu tribe in south africa and her music. She puts a lot of the click um language within her song and she taught me a few words. But it's just mad because I can't replicate some of the sounds because I don't know where the clicks are placed within my mouth. So it's nuts. Even as a beatboxer I'm still figuring out how to say words, because with other languages like german and french, the, the pronunciation is pretty easy. But yeah, when you have stuff like that, it gets really complex. So if that's your mother tongue, you're already at an advantage.
Speaker 1:That's a really good point. So when you go to competitions I love the fact that you said you trained really hard what's a training schedule like for a beatboxer? I'm really curious how do you prepare?
Speaker 2:It depends on what you're preparing for. So recently I haven't been preparing for much because I've got my shows that I do in certain places. I'm working on a few new shows with a few other beatboxers, so it's nice to kind of back and forth ideas. But recently I'm just thinking of more concepts. So if I go and do a show or something, I'll try all these concepts and see how the crowd reacts, you know. So I might have a song in my head what did I do recently? It's like this ready or not, here I come, you can't hide, hide, hide, I'm gonna. Yeah, but that's just an idea I had recently. So then I've tried that at shows and people are like, yeah, so I'm just kind of figuring out where the drums are placed and stuff. So I'm slowly getting a more defined routine of that.
Speaker 2:But I've had routines. I've had for 10 years. I'm still changing them and making them the way I want them. But that's what's great about beatboxing no show is ever the same. You know you're always going to need to breathe or do something differently every time. You might have too much saliva in your mouth. You know what I mean. You might need to swallow when you're doing a drop. So then you'll do an extra four bars and freestyle.
Speaker 1:I wish that anybody listening to this could see my face, because I am astonished. That was amazing, that was so cool. It's just incredible that you can just make that noise. You can just make music like that sitting here.
Speaker 2:I mean generally, it lives in my head anyway. So if it's not coming out my mouth, I'm doing something in my head or I'm silently going within my mouth. Um, so yeah, there's always something, always some kind of tempo or melody in my head yeah, so do, other than beatboxing.
Speaker 1:Have you made any other music or have you played any instruments?
Speaker 2:I'm instrument illiterate. I've tried. I passed key skills piano when I studied music, but I can't fathom the music as a language. So I numbered it like one, two, three, four, five. So I'm better at playing by numbers than I am. Abcde I play the didgeridoo, but yeah, no, I'm not any good with instruments. I can make beats. I've studied music technology, I went to college and done that but yeah, I don't play any, play any instruments. I can't really fathom it. You know, it doesn't really work for me. That's why I kind of make everything with my mouth and that's why I think I was more drawn to that as a child, because my dad DJed, my granddad was a drummer and it kind of passed through into me in this weird way.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, but you can make music like that, you can make those beats with no equipment. Yeah, exactly, which is even cooler.
Speaker 2:Well, someone said to me that I was blessed the other day because I could listen to any music anytime that I wanted, and it's true, but at the same time, you still get songs stuck in your head. You still might sing a song in your head that you don't want, and then I'll be beatboxing that and nodding my head. I'm like, oh, justin Bieber got in my head.
Speaker 1:Intrus super cool it's amazing.
Speaker 2:I have zero musical talent at all, but my brother is incredible. He's incredibly so you're looking at him.
Speaker 1:You're like how the fuck honestly, he's one of those people that can pick up any instrument.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's like some people just pick an instrument up and then they've like, oh yeah, I know how this works you know. I mean like I understand music, just I, just I know how this works that's exactly it.
Speaker 1:he just he like somebody had a violin. He just picked it up and was just playing the violin. We call it a fiddle. I said, when did you learn fiddle? And he was like I don't know how to play it, but he was playing it, he knows what sounds right innit. Yeah, thank you so much for demonstrating some of your beatboxing skills. That is so cool, and the fact that that just flows out of you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you just flow. Actually, artistic flow and creative flow is something I'm so interested in. I love asking people about. So can you tell me what inspires you, or is there something in particular that inspires you?
Speaker 2:for my beatboxing or for my art is it different things?
Speaker 1:is it the same? That's an interesting question in itself. Is there something that inspires you musically and something that inspires you in art?
Speaker 2:for me. Musically, I love currently working with other beatboxers and other musicians because it's just like lighting that fire that's within me. I've been doing performance in now for like 10 years, no, 15 years even, geez um. So I'm a veteran when it comes to performance and especially solo performance. So it's really nice when I'm working with other artists and creating new shows that are exciting to me, because not that it's boring, but it's a lot of the same when I'm traveling by myself and doing a lot of solo shows. You know I know what I'm doing, I know what I'm about to do. So, yeah, working with new, new talent is really inspiring to me, and with art it's quite new to me. So I'm constantly learning new techniques and evolving it.
Speaker 2:Like I painted a wall the other day in Thailand and the background was still wet. So when I put my first line on with the roller, I knew that the outcome of my piece isn't going to be what I want. So on the first line, I knew I had to adapt and then, about an hour in, I'd created a whole new technique. Because the back wall was wet, I would get one or two strokes before it would bleed through and then I started using the color blending into my what I was putting on the brush as a technique, rather than being like nah, this doesn't look good, you know. So through doing this piece, it was a whole, entirely different project, just from the materials I had and learning on the go.
Speaker 1:When you're able to adapt, that shows a really skilled artist. When something doesn't go right and you can adapt to that and make it work, yeah, so a friend of mine, frankie.
Speaker 2:He done a lot of the kind of background work for the new star wars movie and the way he got the job is incredible. And I love telling this story because basically it shows a true artist and he's a graffiti artist and he was in the room with, like I don't know, specially trained classical artists or whatever I don't know.
Speaker 2:But they gave them a brand new item, said make this look a thousand years old, you know, and he basically stood on the spot, scraped it on the floor, spat on it, got some mud off his shoe, maybe, got a bit of spray paint and sprayed it on it. But then these other kids were running around being like, oh, we need b11 black and this specific gray and this and this pigment and that and this, running around the whole classroom trying to get these specific things, and he'd done it in five minutes with a like two meter radius, you know, and got the job, because he can think on his toes. You know, if you're on a job, you're on a site and you don't have the equipment you need, you need to be. Oh, you know, don't worry, I, I can make that out of this, you know, and figure it out like that, and I love that element of being creative and also just creating instruments that you need. You know, I've had, I've been in that situation a lot.
Speaker 1:Don't have a roller tray, fine, let's find something that I can contain this paint in exactly so adapt to your environment use what you've got exactly especially if you're on the streets yeah, no ladder, let me use a pallet exactly, if there's a way to get up, if there's a way to do it, if there's a way to adapt, that's the key, and that's a sign of somebody who really wants to.
Speaker 1:So we've talked a little bit about what inspires you in your music and you say you really like collaborating, so we'll talk a bit more about your collaborations in art. You have a super distinctive style of street art and it's this really beautiful calligraphy and I would love to know how did you learn calligraphy? How did you start painting it? How did you first start painting, doing street art in general?
Speaker 2:So during lockdown, basically I've been performing all my life and during lockdown it was the only time in my life in the past however many years that I haven't been allowed to do what I do. When lockdown happened I was traveling Australia and didn't kind of believe this whole thing was happening, you know, like no food in the shops. So anyway, I had to come back to England and I had nowhere to live. I was living on my mate's sofa big up Lewis um, and there, to keep myself sane, I started studying calligraphy. So basically I'm heavily dyslexic, can't write at all. My brain does stupid things, like I'll turn a t into a four and then put a dot onto it because it's an I. But none of these things make sense. You know, my brain just malfunctions and does weird squiggles. So then I wanted to learn how to write again and kind of make writing beautiful, which is calligraphy, and I love art. So it made sense for me to create letters that I would do and I'm like oh, look at that J. Like look at look at that.
Speaker 2:J look at that S you know, and it would make me happy doing these letters. So I literally went through pads I've burnt through so many pads just learning while I was during lockdown because I had nothing else to do and then a few graffiti ice friends of mine kind of came out of retirement and I was like, yeah, I'm kind of up for putting something on a wall. So I went down Leak Street and done my first big piece and the next day it was gone.
Speaker 2:So that taught me a massive lesson, you know, because it took a lot for me to even leave the house and put something that I found sacred on the wall and it was gone the next day, or at least ruined. You know, because I went all the way to the top. I bought a ladder and went right to the ceiling and half of it was gone and I felt very disrespected. But then I spoke to the guy that done it and he was like, oh, it's just what happens, you know. So instantly I learned that lesson and I was like all right, cool space. And then the more and more I practiced, the better I got.
Speaker 2:And now I was at a place where you know, I would go around and ask for commissions or find an ugly looking wall and ask local residents and be like, do you mind if I just? You know, like this is what I do? And most people like, yeah, fine, go ahead, do it. So finding these little ugly places and making them bright again was a really nice thing for me to do and, uh, just kind of gave me a lot of energy. And when people would walk past and go, wow, I'm like, that's why I'm doing this, you know, like one, I enjoy doing it, but two making what? People just walk past or scuttle past.
Speaker 1:Stop and look at you know it's a beautiful thing absolutely and your work, like I said, is super distinctive and it really stands out and it's so beautifully done. Like your shading is incredible, so were you artistic before? Also? I just want to come back and say thank you for sharing that about being dyslexic and that's how you got into it. What a way to turn that into something really positive I've always hated my writing.
Speaker 2:So say, I've had a letter to write and you know I'm writing someone's address on the letter. I would write it on a sticker so that if I do it wrong I'll just go to another sticker and then I can slap that on. Otherwise the envelope would have loads of scribbles on it, basically.
Speaker 1:But that's adapting again.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really clever being able to do that.
Speaker 2:But then, through lockdown, I started a brand, 100% ethical brand, you know. I made sure everything, every step of the way, was completely ethical and through that I put my art on merchandise, you know, and that got me out of this hole that I was in. I was able to get a place of my own again. So through my art it kind of when lockdown was over, I had enough money to start renting my own place again and that was all self-sufficient. That was all because I had spent the last two years studying and learning these letter forms and then making art and selling that.
Speaker 1:So I'll just say that when beat fox came to the studio today, he is one of the nicest backpacks I've ever seen. It's so beautiful.
Speaker 2:It's pinks, purples, calligraphy style a bit of gold on there and we're going to need to know where to buy them yeah, I'll be opening up a shop soon, so yeah, you can just check that on instagram at beatfox uk. I'm just going through kind of the test period and product testing, making sure that you know the quality is good enough, because I wouldn't want to sell anything that I wouldn't want to buy well, I love it and I'll be on the waiting list for sure, but that sounds like an ending.
Speaker 1:But let's go back, because I want to ask more about your calligraphy style now. So you spent so long learning this and you're able to go out and put it on walls? Do you have beautiful handwriting now?
Speaker 2:uh, it depends if I put time into it. Yeah, give give me a parallel pen or a chisel tip, and yes, give me a biro and it'll just be a hand style like graffiti but that's still pretty cool, my brain still malfunctions.
Speaker 2:You know, like I'm still dyslexic. I've done um a commission recently and my brain does stupid things, like I'll go to write a word, but in my head I've already written the first letter, so I'm jumping straight to the second. Or I've done the second letter so I'm jumping to the third. So sometimes I'll put a d where it was a d. It was just silly things like that. So I still have to wait out. But when I'm concentrating it's all good. It's when I get too relaxed that it, you know, creeps back in and I just make silly errors.
Speaker 1:That's a really interesting point. When you're in the flow of things and when you're painting what's going through your head, are you thinking about something particular? Are you thinking about what you're making? Is it just creatively coming out of you?
Speaker 2:With the huge calligraphy pieces. I love the element of freestyle. I'll look at a wall and just find shapes or certain. It depends. You know, if I want to do a circle within it, I'll do a circle within it, but if there are certain fractures within the wall that I want to avoid or enhance, then I'll go for that and kind of work them into it. But generally I'm just putting how I'm feeling that day on the wall. There is no real I'm going to put this there and do that here, unless that's a something that I want to create balance for and were you a painter before?
Speaker 2:so I loved art as a kid. Art was the only GCSE I got. I've always enjoyed it, I just never really spent time onto it. Yeah, like I vividly remember being about four years old and doing a painting I loved, you know, and really being like I'm proud of this, you know, and it was I wouldn't say it was terrible, it was very unique, uh.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that kind of showed me that I definitely enjoy art and I've always liked drawing. You know, when I was younger it was one of my pastimes. I would just draw and sketch on paper and I've really enjoyed it. And then so when music came into my life, art kind of took a backseat, because music was just the forefront and I never really spent time creating again. So it's nice to bring it back and kind of learn new skills again.
Speaker 1:The things that we do for free when we're children, because we genuinely enjoy them. Those are the things that give you life. That's your passion.
Speaker 2:And there are so many people that are so talented at drawing or doing portraits and random things, but they just, you know, doodle on paper and they don't take it seriously. But it's like if you actually spent time, maybe half a day, on something and you would walk back and be like, oh, I've done that, look at what I've done. You know, because half the time when I'm painting these things takes me a week or two and then I'll look back and be like that's actually mad. Look what we've done. You know, in that amount of time it really is.
Speaker 1:the creative process is so incredible when I see people like yourself or Ra just going out with a can and spraying something, or with a roller or whatever it is, and just taking something out of your brains and putting it on a wall for everyone else to enjoy. It's so incredible that people can do that. And if you love it when you're a kid, you have to do it as an adult. Even if you're not taking it as a business, even if you're not doing it as you know your only job, do it for happiness, do it to be creative and to make something.
Speaker 2:This is it so when happiness do it to be creative and to make something. This is it so when I do the workshops and I go into schools, so I do graffiti workshops within schools as well as beatbox workshops and I teach them. You know cool. You may not be the best graffiti artist in the world, you may not be the best artist, you may not be the best beatboxer, but having any kind of creative outlet is so important because you're going to go insane otherwise. You can work on any job and you can do these things, but you need to go out and be creative if there's a creative element to you at all, don't let it die no, exactly, and hold on to it.
Speaker 2:And this is what I teach them, because you need that, whether you know you're tapping like just don't lose, don't lose that, this is what it is.
Speaker 1:You know, sketch, doodle, make noises, have fun with it, basically so I have to ask now what was the first painting that you ever remember doing, that you're proud of?
Speaker 2:It was a load of squiggles. Basically, it's very similar to my calligraphy style. Now, I'm not going to lie, it's funny. The more I think about it, the more there's similarities there are. It was basically thick lines followed by thin lines in different colorways. So yeah, it's probably at my mum's house somewhere.
Speaker 1:You'd be surprised at how many people have the first painting that they ever did or the first drawing that they're really proud of, how much it matches what they do now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:You're going to have to dig that out.
Speaker 1:I'll find it yeah for sure, I'd love to see it. So what inspires you in music was your collabs, and you really like nurturing new talent, and in art, you're putting something beautiful on a wall. You collaborate in art as well. We have a mutual friend, hello, as well. We have a mutual friend, hello, rah. If you're listening, yo yo hi rah. So rah is a mutual friend of ours and he is just absolutely wonderful, a truly special guy. So how did you meet rah and how did you start painting? Because usually when you see one of your paintings, it's accompanied by his character, cleo, or they're usually to be found pretty closely together because you're buddies and you go out together all the time. So how did you? You meet Ra?
Speaker 2:So I met Ra down Leek Street and you know we just kept linking up and painting and I saw that he was doing this character, cleo, that he does, and saw that there was a lot of blank space in the backgrounds. Sometimes he would do like one planet or kind of like a gold fade or something. But I was like, can I do your background one time and he was like, yeah, let's do it. So then we kind of picked that spot at the Pirate Studios and, yeah, had no real plan apart from an idea and a big space, and I know that I wanted to fill that space completely. So we just kind of went for it. We took all our paint down, went for it and the way it came out like looking at it now I wouldn't say it's terrible, but how far we've come, we have evolved so far. So it's very simple compared to what we're doing now. But the way it came out and on that day I was so proud of it and the scale I'd never painted anything that big before.
Speaker 2:I'd never spent that long painting something before and painting next to him for that period he was teaching me techniques because we do completely different things, but he was like yo, what about if you do that to this? And I'm like I can't, how that to this? And I'm like I can't, how about you show me? And then he would show me and I'm like, okay, I think I can, I think I can do that, and then I'll give it a go and I'm like, yeah, you're right, that looks good. I'll do that for the whole thing. So it's nice kind of getting other eyes on my work. That wouldn't usually be there, and same with his, you know. So I would bring some calligraphy onto his work and he's like I would never let anyone touch clio so it's nice to kind of have that trust and be able to collaborate and actually go over each other's work.
Speaker 2:You know because? Because yeah, it's really nice understanding how we work together and now we kind of works in biologically, we just telepathically talk and move around each other and it's beautiful but it is so beautiful what you can create together.
Speaker 1:I love.
Speaker 2:I love that he mentored you a little bit, like he mentored you some of the techniques techniques completely different, like I do graffiti and calligraphy, so a lot of the time I'm not using the shadowing techniques. He's taught me all of that. I had always done quite flat work before he taught me how to kind of bring this depth to it. So, yeah, it's been really nice to kind of learn these techniques and kind of evolve them into my style and what you can teach him as well, what you can use together.
Speaker 2:You know, symbiotic relationship of learning and it's nice, kind of like I'm saying having fresh eyes on our pieces, because I'll be like, oh, how about you do this with that? Or he'll be like, how about you do this with this? And it's really nice to kind of have an open conversation rather than someone saying, oh, you should have done that or why don't you do this? This is kind of oh, let's try that, you know, and it's more positive than dictating communication is key inively, and I think that's why we work well together as well, because we've both kind of got this same outlook.
Speaker 2:Let's just go and attack a wall. See what comes out. There's no real stress or drama Like what happens happens.
Speaker 1:But you're both super chill and like just open to what's going to happen.
Speaker 2:It's a great friendship it is.
Speaker 1:I'm glad that Ra taught you a little bit and you were able to teach each other and to learn from each other. Do you have anybody that you would love to work with, or what artists do you really aspire to work with or to create with?
Speaker 2:so I haven't really thought about that too far. I've had a couple of ideas of collaborations that I want to kind of tick off this year, but in terms of, like I don't know, a fantasy artist that I would like to collaborate with, I haven't really thought about that. I, I mean, I've got currently on my body I'm collecting tattoos off of friends, you know. So that's kind of where I'm going with that. But in terms of a collaboration that isn't my skin, yeah, I've got a few talented artists around London that I definitely want to tick off, like Dave Blance Capo. Yeah, just a few people that I want to see the spin of other people's ideas. Like I don't know if you've seen the ones I've done with Slay1. We've done like a massive sphinx cat with a load of calligraphy around it.
Speaker 2:It was insane, and just the scale and how good it looked. We've done a tiger in Barcelona, big orange calligraphy coming out of it and yeah just getting other people's ideas, the one that I was thinking with Dave Plants.
Speaker 2:he sent me an image with a girl and her brain was like coming out of her head and I was like that's crazy, because we could do the calligraphy as the thoughts you know like spiraling out of the mind. But I don't know. So getting other people's imagery and ideas is always good because it's a fresh palette of ideas.
Speaker 1:That is such a good idea. I'd love to see that. So those are the people that you'd love to work with. Is there anyone that you've always looked up to as an artist?
Speaker 2:and actually that question for both music and in art there's a lot of people I look up to in the art world. Again, I've got a guy called mayonnaise tired on my chest and I love his lettering style. There's a guy called keeps who I've got tired on the back of my head. These kind of people, just how free-flowing they are and how unique their lettering is, kind of just turns me on in a way. You know, I'm looking at their letter forms. I'm like wow, like that's crazy, like you must have mastered this skill. You know you spent thousands of hours just creating shapes and now every time you do it it's perfection and I really love that, that fact of just free-flowing and going for it. So these artists I look up to and, yeah, I've got them collaborating on my skin.
Speaker 2:Maybe we'll do a piece at some point in the future. I don't know, we'll see how my journey goes. But yeah, and music, I don't know about collaborating with people. It's just more what happens. You know the people I meet and how it free flows. There isn't really any dream collaborations I've thought of. I mean, I've warmed up for a lot of people. I warmed up for Busta Rhymes a few weeks ago, warmed up up for Snoop Dogg just to throw that in there toured with Jessie J. So I've done some really cool things, but in terms of creating something I don't know, I'd love to just keep it local and work with my friends and make something that is uniquely us.
Speaker 1:That is very, very cool.
Speaker 2:I love that that you just want to like make something with your friends because then you know it's kind of then people will want to collaborate with us. If we create our stamp, that is that unique people be like okay, I'll see what you lot are doing.
Speaker 1:This, let's kind of create something together and when did you get the idea to have people tattoo you and do you trust them?
Speaker 2:yeah, I had to the guy on the back of my head. Of course I couldn't see what he was doing, um, but yeah, so I've dedicated my left leg to friends, that tattoo, and kind of. I'm just kind of collecting people's artwork that I really love and respect. So I've traveled to Australia to get the one off mayonnaise. You know, um keeps. I was going to travel to Prague to get it off him, but he actually came to the UK. Yeah, just, things keep popping up and it works out really well. You know like I'll be watching someone's artwork evolve and then suddenly I'm like, yep, cool, let's do that. You know what I mean. So it's working out quite well and yeah, so I'm dedicating my leg to my friends. I've got a piece from raw on there. Just, yeah, my friends, that tattoo, I'm gonna put them all on my left leg until I run out of room and then we'll figure out more space do you tattoo yourself?
Speaker 2:like no, no no, I want to learn, but I'm not there yet not recommending this to anyone, so I probably won't put this in.
Speaker 2:You just buy really cheap tattoo kits and my missus wants me to do her leg, but I need the confidence, you know. I mean like, so I've had this conversation with raw, you know. I mean like, when he done this, I was talking to him about it. It's ripped off. Yeah, of course, with cleo.
Speaker 2:But I need to get past the thought process of scarring someone for life. And that's what's going on in my head. I'm like, oh no, I'm not ready to to scar someone for life. Like what if I do it wrong? And he was like yeah, but think about it like this, you've done the best you can. That day I'm like, yeah, I just need to get into that headspace because, okay, cool, I've done the best I can that day. But then in 10 years I'll look at it and be like, oh, that's fucking shit, but then that's what I do with everything, that's what everyone does with everything, so you just need to start, that's it you are so right, you just need to start or don't want to hurt somebody, so you're holding yourself back a little bit, but it's consideration.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't just want to, you know, tattoo everyone because I've got a gun in my hands and they're saying, yes, because I'm good on a wall. What if I'm not good on a skin?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I want to make sure that you know when I do it on a wall for the first time. If you can tap into that same confidence, you can do it on skin and you can practice. You can get practice sheets yeah, exactly but what was it that day that pushed you down to leak street, to to paint?
Speaker 2:the funniest thing that we thought of is you're not allowed outside your house to do anything other than exercise, and if you are, you have to be two meters apart. So we were basically, because a lot of police would come down the tunnel and we would basically claim mental health and say that you know, we're out here because we're locked inside. I want to create art. I can't just do it on plain paper anymore. We're doing huge pieces. We're two meters apart.
Speaker 2:Anyway, we were playing music and actually having conversations and it was a really beautiful space. So just leaving the house and going there with five or six people in a time where you weren't even allowed to meet friends, we were two meters away and painting, that was it. You know, it wasn't even the confidence at start. It was just being able to be out and in an environment where other people were being creative. And then the confidence came from it, because there were times where I'd look at the wall and hate it, roll it out four or five times, you know. But that's why I'm down there, because I'm trying and I'm learning. And then I'm like, no, I don't like that, let's try again. Or someone be like that's cool. I'm like, yeah, but I don't like it, but you like it. Why do you like it?
Speaker 1:And I find certain bits and I'm like, ok, that area and try something else. So, yeah, it was more just being in that creative space and then the confidence came. There's a lot to be said for being around people that can encourage you and give you feedback and make you feel like you can create really.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I have another question for you. How do you walk away from something? How do you know when something is done and you're able to walk away from it?
Speaker 2:When you get chased. No, I'm joking, it depends. Joking, um, it depends. So for me I've got quite a particular way in that I paint so I'm doing all my big, thick, bold lines first, and then I'm coming in with a brush when I'm doing my calligraphy pieces. So I know when I'm done, when I step back and look at it and I feel like all the gaps are filled, because that's essentially what I'm doing, the way I paint, and if there's certain gaps that need to be filled, then I need to do other lines. Or if it's like more spread out, then it's harder to tell, because then it's like I could do one more here, I could do one more there.
Speaker 2:But then if I do one and I don't like it you know it's it's hard to tell when you finish, because there's a lot of times where I've done one with rar recently in an abandoned building and the calligraphy was kind of free flowing along the wall. It was very congested in one area and then was like just flowing in other bits and I would keep walking away and then adding something else and then be like, no, no, I'm done. No, no, no, one more. And it just became me playing with kind of optical illusions, you know, because there'd be a bar in the way. So then I would paint a bit on the wall and then something on the bar, because I now had a bit of free time. But yeah, I love having that element of just playing around as well, like I've done the seriousness of the work.
Speaker 1:Now I'm just kind of freestyling over here I don't know when to walk away from something I'm asking for myself.
Speaker 2:I keep seeing things that I want to focus on it and I'm messing it up and making it worse I mean sometimes daylight's a factor as well, so if it gets too dark, then you know we naturally have to finish anyway yeah we have to do that a couple spots and I'm looking at pictures like oh, I could have done that, I should have done that, but you know, it makes the piece a bit more raw and organic I can't just go back to it, and I mean I could at some places, but it's nice just leaving it how it was meant to be.
Speaker 1:I suppose that's it. That's how it's meant to be when you walk away and that's what it is. You leave it to the streets exactly yeah, so on that point, actually working on the streets, have you had any super positive interactions or any challenging interactions?
Speaker 2:yeah, I've had a couple um. One of the main standout ones was I think it was about two years ago now and there was a. It was the back of a pub and there was like a, a scene from covid with someone getting a vaccine on their arm, like a painting, and it was tagged loads of tags all over it and it's the perfect spot to get revamped. So we're halfway me and rah halfway through this piece, and the local residents come by. He's like, oh, you've covered the painting, it's one of my favorite pieces. Yeah, I'm gonna come and roll your piece out in a week. Once, as soon as you finish, I'm gonna come and get rid of it. And then he walked off. It's still there, no one's touched. There's not even a tag on our piece. So that was funny One, because we were a bit like, oh, we hope this stays. And it still is there.
Speaker 2:Bar that, it's all been very positive. You know like even there was a house that burnt down in Whitechapel. I had been watching it for about a year seeing that there was no movement on it. So I was like you know what, let me just paint the side of this wall. Me and Ra, we went there. We got lights. You know, we made sure that even when it went into the dark, we would have enough power to light the whole wall.
Speaker 2:We were there for about, I think, 10 hours and during this time it was the day that the builders started work I didn't know that on this house. So they were like do you know, john? I was like, yeah, yeah, john. And then they went back inside. It was fine. Then they've obviously got John on the phone. And then he's come outside and been like so he's saying you don't, he doesn't know you, but I'm looking at the wall and it's really beautiful. And the guy on the phone has been like so is it good? He's like, yeah, just let him carry on. Then and then a woman has come about four hours later and been like why are?
Speaker 2:you painting the side of my house and I was like, well, the house burnt down and you know it's just kind of a bit of a trashy looking wall. It's fucked, sorry.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I can swear, um, it's got loads of tags over it. So you know, I'm doing a public service and making this wall look better. And she stepped back and she was like, well, it's quite beautiful though, because I was doing big gold calligraphy, you know it was I spent a lot of money on this paint. It was a really good quality paint and, um, yeah, it was really nice to kind of win them over and now it's a pillar of that community. You know, like there's one or two pieces of street art within that postcode and this is one of them and it's really nice that it's kind of just been accepted. And even the people who owned the house there was no one living there, it was still trashed, but they have left it and they accepted the fact that. You know, we were just there trying to do a good job because it was covered in bad tags.
Speaker 1:That is such a lovely story. Did John ever come by and see it?
Speaker 2:No, but we did meet his wife.
Speaker 1:Was his wife, the lady.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, and she liked it too.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. You just never know when you're doing something on the street. You never know who you're going to encounter. They're going to be positive. It's going to so good feedback.
Speaker 2:Yeah, generally. I mean, I've obviously had a couple of situations with some crackheads, but you know that's what happens when you're painting shortage.
Speaker 1:That is, yeah, every day. You just never know what you're going to get. Another question for you yeah, so you obviously do art and music and you are working on many, many different things. How do you organise your time? How do you stay organised and stay on top of everything you're doing?
Speaker 2:well, sometimes I'm mad busy and sometimes I'm not. You know, sometimes I'll do like three gigs and one painting in a day. Other days I'll just do nothing apart from chill at home, cook food and chill with the missus. So it's just about balance. Really, I try not to burn myself out. Sometimes I'm stupidly busy. But you know, it's okay to power through for eight days as long as you've got a couple days off at the end of it. So that's kind of that's kind of what I do. But it's hard to balance the art with the beatboxing because a lot of the time I'm turning up at shows with paint all over my hands because I haven't been home in between a session. So yeah, it's kind of hard to stay one or the other because I'm bleeding into both worlds constantly but yeah, that's an interesting point to you.
Speaker 1:And how do they meld together? Where should they be separated out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it works really well together. And it's funny because I find myself, when I was beatboxing a lot as my main kind of passion. I would always find and focus on beats, whereas now I'm focusing on colour palettes and shapes, and it's funny how the mind changes into what it is excited about you know. So I'll be looking at things like, oh, look at that purple, whereas before I'd be like, listen to that snare. And I still am on both levels. But certain things with art are more at the forefront of my mind.
Speaker 1:On that. Where do you think creativity comes from? A philosophical question for you. What do you think inspires us to make or to create?
Speaker 2:I would say an aspect of boredom, but also to satisfy an urge, you know, because I was beatboxing long before I knew what it was you know, I was probably doing art before I knew what it was. I would probably create things.
Speaker 2:It's just something that naturally comes out of me there are some people that aren't artistic, and I can't believe that there is no creative outlet for certain people. But for me, yeah, I just think it's a raw form of expression and a nice way for your mind to just go. This is what I want to do perfect answer.
Speaker 1:That was really beautiful. So I'm very sad to say that our time is coming to an end, unfortunately. This has been such a pleasure to talk to you and thank you for letting me pick your brains and ask you questions that's all good what is next for beatbox?
Speaker 2:so I kind of want to start creating a lot more of my own clothes. I don't want to stop giving money to a lot of these brands and just kind of create clothes that I would want to wear, you know, and putting wearable art into the fashion world because who wants another night tick on a t-shirt? You know where you can wear something that is beautiful art as well as a wearable product. That's what I want to start creating and that's where I want to go with it, you know, because if you can spend a grand on a painting, why not get that painting on a jumper and get?
Speaker 1:it for a hundred and actually wear it around and have you experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and let other people see it, rather than just hang it in a house. So that's kind of where I want to get and I want to kind of showcase my art and style in unique ways within fashion.
Speaker 1:I can't wait to see what is next for you. I'm really excited. Where can people find you? On socials.
Speaker 2:Just type in BeatFoxUK or at BeatFoxUK on most platforms and I'll pop up.
Speaker 1:Perfect, and you'll have a store coming soon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. Just check out the link in my bio on Instagram and BeatFoxUK soon will be linking straight to the website.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Thank you so much once again. Again, this has genuinely been such a lovely conversation. I'm so, so happy to have got the chance to talk to you thank you okay, thank you.
Speaker 1:There you have it. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of this is disruption. If you've enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to follow the podcast and never miss an episode. You can find us on all major podcast platforms Apple Podcasts, spotify, etc. Also on YouTube. Stay connected with us on social media. You can find the podcast at thisisdisruptionpod on Instagram and TikTok and you will find updates and snippets of upcoming shows. Until next time, keep challenging the status quo, embracing your creative spirit, and be brave. Go and create. Thank you, and see you in the next episode.