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This is Disruption
This is Disruption podcast explores the pursuit of creativity and shares the stories of the fearless creators in street art, graffiti, music, photography and beyond, who boldly challenge the status quo, break barriers for others and share their work unapologetically. Each episode is a deep dive interview exploring the lives of artistic risk takers, exploring their motivations, their inspirations, and their take on the power of art, in whatever form they make it in.
The podcast is hosted by Irish street artist and DJ, Did by Rua, based in London.
This is Disruption
Tiny Hands Big Heart: Illustrating Life's Notions
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What happens when an Irish artist decides to swap a career in teaching and commercial illustration work for sharing her work on the vibrant streets of Barcelona? Meet an absolute legend: Tiny Hands Big Heart, whose artistic journey took her from back home in the hills of Donegal to the bustling art scene of Spain. Tiny shares her unexpected leap into street art during the solitude of the COVID-19 quarantine, where she found her character Ita and her love for the act of adorning public spaces with her creations.
In this chat, we explore the Irish concept of having "notions"— those brave, unconventional ideas that often challenge societal norms, which I am alllll about. From the therapeutic creation of Ita to the fun but chaotic experience of preparing for and hosting her solo art show, Tiny's narrative is all about the courage it takes to pursue creative ambitions whilst also balancing life's demands.
We delve into the rebellious world of street art, from dodging undercover police to embracing the unpredictability of freelance life. This is a story about the unyielding drive to keep the creative spirit alive and flourishing, and I can't wait to share it with you.
Find Tiny on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tinyhandsbigheart/
Tiny Hands Big Heart online shop
Tiny collab with Callum Design Studio
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Hello there. You are very welcome to. This is Disruption podcast, with me, your host Rua. This podcast brings you in-depth interviews with the fearless creatives in street art, graffiti, music, photography and beyond, who boldly challenge the status quo, break barriers for others and share their work unapologetically. Each episode is a deep dive into the lives of artistic risk takers, exploring their motivations, their inspirations and their reasons for their willingness to disrupt societal norms. Some of these stories involve revolutionising their industries, while others are pushing the boundaries of legality with their art. Coming up on today's episode.
Speaker 2:And I always wanted to push the art, but I didn't exactly know what I was pushing or where I wanted to go. People with notions or just believing stuff that's so ridiculous. There's not enough people that do that. So not enough people are trying to do the ridiculous stuff. So there's more opportunity. Do you know what I mean? So she was definitely created in a moment of rage and I think it was just my outlet to get my rage out there at the time, and so many people connect to it. That was never anything that I intended to do ever Like. I loved all the stuff I saw on the street, but I didn't think that I would ever get into it. Now that I know how to do one thing, let's do something else I don't know how to do. Need to put in the time that's all it is. Need to put in the time that's all it is in this episode.
Speaker 1:I was lucky enough to catch up with irish artist tiny hands. Big heart. Tiny is also from dunny gall in ireland, although she's now based in barcelona. This was a fantastic conversation. It was a long time coming. I'm delighted I finally got to speak with her. As always, these episodes are best enjoyed if you listen while you create something. This is Disruption. So delighted today to be talking to a fellow Irish artist, tiny Hands Bighart, also known as Teenie. Tiny is a street artist who's now based in Barcelona. She is not only from Ireland, but she is from my home place of Donegal. I am slightly biased, but I think it is the nicest part of Ireland. I'm willing to stand by that. Tiny, I'm sure you agree. Before we get into it, how are you doing today? Absolutely fantastic, now that I've got a glass of wine. You've got your glass of wine, we're good to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're doing the semi-seco January.
Speaker 1:So drive home early for some.
Speaker 2:It's all on brand, though. I should have had a can, but no, we're staying away from beer. I've got weapons to get ready for this year, so no beer for me.
Speaker 1:You're having a classy glass of wine. I have my massive bottle of water here.
Speaker 2:That's what this month is for.
Speaker 1:So thank you so much for speaking with me. We were meant to do this a really long time ago over a year ago now and it didn't work out for one reason or another, and now we're finally getting a chance to do this, so I'm delighted to be speaking with you Finally, long before either of us were ever doing street art, I knew of you and I'm sure you knew of me, because we have a mutual friend, lauren, who will be listening to this, I'm sure. Hello, Lauren. I lived with Lauren in New York. It's a really random story. She moved into my apartment. She turned up one day with her bags on her doorstep and said hi, somebody said I could move in here. Um, we became fast friends immediately and she's still one of my closest friends. So, long before either of us ever did street art, you also knew Lauren, yeah, from first year university so we were.
Speaker 2:When we were studying teaching, or studying education. We were put out for teaching practice for the seven weeks and we were sitting in the reception that day I was like, oh, I'm a student teacher and I'm a student teacher too.
Speaker 2:She's like I'm in first year and I was like, yes, so am I. And she's like I've never seen you before because I just never went to class. So then we ended up teaching together for those seven weeks and then we both had a friend, or like two friends, that lived together and we were planning on moving into this apartment. But we did, or into the house, but we didn't realize that both friends thought there was two bedrooms. No, it was like we were both kind of fighting for the one room to move into. So they rented out the attic room to me and we were housemates then for like four years oh, lauren is the best.
Speaker 1:She's a queen. So when you first started doing street art, then she was telling me and I was like that is so cool and I'd love to hear more. So I can't wait to get into this and hear all about your journey, okay it's been quite an unexpected journey. Nothing was planned so let's go all the way back to the hills of Donegal.
Speaker 2:Well, actually you were born in the US and you moved to Ireland, moved to Ireland like four months after, so just when I was old enough to fly, my parents went deeper into the story of all of this happening. Over Christmas I I was like what were you doing? Like such a crazy story? But anyway, they moved back when I was four months old and then stayed in Ireland until I was three and then moved back to the States and I was there from three until nine and then back to Llywelyn again.
Speaker 1:And what was that like? Or do you remember being in Ireland when you were really little?
Speaker 2:Not really. No, the first part I didn't remember. I do remember the States, but I don't it's weird. I didn't think that I remembered it quite so clearly until I went back there when I was 18. I was like this all kind of felt like a sort of fever dream and I was, like I remember, Very surreal feeling. I'm not sure I was back there this year again Back and forth quite a bit.
Speaker 1:Having dual citizenship is the best thing, especially for a European country and the US. It gives you so much freedom, so much freedom, but I think I prefer being in Europe a bit better. Yeah, so you're in Barcelona. Now back in.
Speaker 2:Barcelona again. It was the plan to go back to the States again last year. I think I was supposed to go the 6th of January and then I moved it to the start of February and then just was like no, I just want to stay here and settle, settle.
Speaker 1:But yeah, necessary. I love Barcelona. It's one of my favorite cities and I make an annual pilgrimage every year to Primavera Sound.
Speaker 2:I know it's. How have I still not met you? This makes no sense yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I love it. I go every year. It's so fun. I love Barcelona because it's a super fun city. There's a bit of everything there's the city, there's the beach, there's a great music scene, but the art scene is incredible and I know that when you moved there, you saw it all around you and you became inspired as well. But let's talk about your journey into tiny or teeny, depending how you put it.
Speaker 2:I know it's a Spanish. The Spanish pronunciation started to teeny, so I don't really recognize when people say tiny me or even just using my real name, so strange. So from doing that here, when did that start? July 2020.
Speaker 2:There was a lot of COVID artists that came out at the same time. So I was doing like I was just doing illustration beforehand, but more commercial type things. So it was more for commissions, for invitations or small brands, and it was very much people telling me exactly what they wanted me to do, like, for example, if I was doing an illustration of a person to be like my nose doesn't look like that, I hardly think your nose looks like this. It's an illustration. So I knew that I did want to take a step away from that and just create stuff that I wanted to do myself. But then, for this street character, that was never anything that I intended to do ever. Like I loved all the stuff I saw on the street, but I didn't think that I would ever get into it.
Speaker 2:But it was during the quarantine I had to quarantine. I went back to Ireland and then was stuck there for three months while I was still working online and no one knew that. I knew that I had left the country and then I had to quarantine here for two weeks. So I've been speaking up to my mom on the phone and just doing a wee doodle and she was really small, like I'd say, like five, five centimeters, a wee, tiny thing on the bottom, literally tiny at the bottom corner of the piece of paper, and she was kind of leaning up against the side and I was like, oh, she looks quite cool, like what, if I like? Drew her out bigger and then just started putting her in my room. So the originals are still in my room sticking up on the wall. So it's during the two weeks of quarantine I was doing those and then I drew them small, got them enlarged, printed them out the first day that I was sent free and then started pasting that night.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that the ultimate burst out of the house and onto the streets like absolutely terrified doing it as well, like the shaking made the mask up the whole time. The mask was good at that time because you were anonymous. You've got an automatic disguise.
Speaker 1:Bring that back again. You went pasting for the first time. Were you solo?
Speaker 2:tell me about that experience so I was even experimenting making the glue at home at that time. And then the idea of like what do I even put the glue into and how do I?
Speaker 1:brush it or how does?
Speaker 2:this work. So I did a couple of trials, like I've got a wee tiny terrace out the back of the house so there's not a big piece of crumbling plastic where I put the first one. It's like this is historic, okay, this is historic art. And then the first thing that I used to take the glue out that night my friend had given me one of those big giant greek yogurt type tubs. So I was like with the handle, like carrying that around the streets, and it was my friend from Limerick that was out that night as well, keeping an eye and looking out for the police. For me it was unbelievable, it's truly addictive. And then you just learn so many different ways of like how you're going to make the glue, how you're going to transport things, like even your folders that you're using. Do you use a big envelope?
Speaker 1:and everything just sort of progresses very, very slowly but unreal you definitely pick up little tips and tricks on how to do things as you go along. That's something I wanted to talk about, actually. So obviously I'm based in London and there's different scenes all over the world and what I've noticed is, wherever you travel, there's different ways of doing things and Portland, for example, a lot of their stuff will be screen printed, and in New York there's a certain style. London has a certain style. It's very graphic. There's a certain style. London has a certain style. It's very graphic.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of graphic artists that do paste-ups, but in Barcelona it's very handmade, like almost everything you see on the street is handmade. Well, I think it is. From what I've seen, it really varies place to place. And then also your paste, like the recipes, because I think what happens is one person learns in that area and teaches somebody else and it spreads and spreads, and in Barcelona correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's handmade paste ups and hand like homemade paste is really a lot of people don't use the handmade pastes here a lot of people use it's like the powder that you mix in so the first night that I met everyone, I was coming with my really small prints as well and everyone was disgusted that mine's more handmade.
Speaker 2:But I was like, but I made the glue and then they were like you know the fountains that they have on the street, so they were there like mixing up their glue. It all felt very gangster and cool when I was out with that group. But it's just like the powderized version of the glue that they use here mostly. But the paste-ups themselves are mostly handmade. Either they're done with acrylic or there's a lot of people that use stencils and spray. Yeah, that I've noticed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's really cool because you can see the difference in different places. When you travel to a new city, you can kind of get a sense of what the style is, and some places have more installations of like tile work or things stuck to walls.
Speaker 2:Barcelona has a lot of handmade paste-ups, which is really cool. Yeah, like I struggled with it because the size and like my drawings were always so small. So then when I started it was like to draw big was nothing that I'd ever tried before. But then I was like this is so much more fun, like I like this way more. So I was doing that, but then it's difficult as well when you're working to have time to do all of that. So it was a mixture of doing the like having your prints and then having the originals. But when I went to New York last year, the standard of the printing was so bad when I experienced the quality of prints and they were so expensive and it was also just difficult to access things, whereas here everything's on your doorstep. So then I did start doing a lot more originals when I was there too, and bigger, because you get noticed and everything's bigger definitely.
Speaker 1:I was bigger in. America so what was it like? You spent a lot of time in New York last summer and I loved watching your stories because I love New York. I mentioned at the beginning that I lived there with Lauren, who our mutual friend, and it was just magic. I love New York so much. There's this incredible energy to it.
Speaker 2:It's so surreal, Like you feel like you just stepped into the TV. You're like you let me in here. This is nuts Again. It's like that out of body experience where you're like looking at yourself doing stuff and you're like, is that me? I didn't get it Unreal, I I was just. I was so lucky with the people that I met there that I was just catapulted right into the middle of everything as well.
Speaker 1:Like could not ask for better oh, that's so good, but that's a really interesting point as well, because a lot of this doing street art and doing paystubs, especially a lot of it is about community there was a guy that came over.
Speaker 2:So that must be January two years ago or three years ago. Oh my god, time after COVID doesn't make sense. There's a time after your 30s doesn't make sense, I don't know. But I'm just gonna blame COVID.
Speaker 2:There was a guy from New York his street name is Sold Out Art Show. So he was over here visiting and he had reached out to me saying it was one of the first paste-ups that he saw and he was like maybe we can organize a night. So it was one of the first paste-up nights that I organized for a group to go. And when I was speaking to him like he's originally from Colombia but he's been there for, I think, like nearly 20 years and when I was explaining that I had the dual citizenship, he was like why are you not there? Like I was stupid. He was like if you come, like I will help.
Speaker 2:So that was in the January and it was in the March then that I decided to just like give it a go, go over and try it, and he just brought me along like unbelievable, such a good mentor for the city. And then we set up the gallery over there too, in New York. Yeah, it was like a pop-up gallery that we were doing in like different shops and different was. I guess it was mostly just different shops where they had like space there, but then they liked the project so much that they just kept the space for the gallery like on real, yeah, amazing. So what's that like? That would be like something I think I would like to go down down that avenue. I think. Step away from not step away from doing my own art, but just to be able to facilitate for other people and set up events. It's something that I really want to dip my toe into this year. I've got ideas.
Speaker 1:I'm having notions, notions. I feel like we should remain the concept of notions to people. No, that's it, that's it, but it's actually having notions. So how do even explain that it's?
Speaker 2:it's an Irish thing that we speak into this, and then I got like the Catalan version of it and the Spanish version of it, because I was speaking to my friend you know, joanne Dungosa, the guy that does the titles oh yeah, yeah, me and him were sitting down having our little weekly sort of meeting the other day and I was telling him about the idea of notions, because that's the events that I want to set up in the new year, and I was saying that it's whimsical and it's a beautiful thing for the English version of what it is, but the Irish version is that you think that you're better?
Speaker 2:than everyone else and it's like a negative connotation behind it and he said in Spanish, notions means that you it's like you have 70% of like the tools and the know-how to do something and it might get done, but it might be a complete disaster. I love it.
Speaker 1:So you pretty much nailed it. Notions is where you have an idea, and to me you have an idea and people will always make judgments about what it is you're doing, and if you have notions, you might think you're going to do something really out there and unusual and people might judge you for it Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Like when I, for one of the first Christmases, I came home I was wearing a bum bag, but like across my shoulder, and it was the boys that I met, like my friends. I met them in the bar and they're like oh, I live in Barcelona and I'm having notions. Look at my body. It's that type of thing. I just get robbed so often I need to wear this well, you've nailed it, I think I've just.
Speaker 1:It's just occurred to me that people with notions are the brave people that I like. Talking to exactly notions.
Speaker 2:I love it but I take it and switch it around. Yeah, we're gonna do a positive thing, exactly, but it is a positive thing. We've just destroyed it with our irishness yeah, in a smaller place.
Speaker 1:If you grew up in a smaller place, people don't expect you to really break the mold and to go do something that they consider quite outrageous, and it takes quite a lot of bravery to go and do that, that mad thing, but you have. So what has it been like? So have you? We both have you donegal girls, because my parents are amazingly supportive of all the mad things I've ever wanted to do. What was it like going back and being like I'm a street artist now?
Speaker 2:everybody loved it. Like everybody just jumped on board. I think any anyone that has known me for quite a while was like whatever. I've been doing before was not what I was supposed to be doing and I complained enough that everybody was very very well aware that I was like. I hate this. I want to do something else and I always wanted to push the art, but I didn't exactly know what I was pushing or where I wanted to go.
Speaker 2:Even, the idea of being an illustrator but working for other people, I don't think I think I would get annoyed doing that too, Like maybe I just don't take direction.
Speaker 1:Well, it's not for everybody, though. Not everyone suits being in a role where they're told do this, have this spreadsheet ready at 11. Like, some, people are just much more free spirited and want to do their own thing.
Speaker 2:That's okay why do I have to do that? I know it's bad, but I was so good at school, like I was so obedient and diligent and all of those things, right up until the very end, and then, I don't know, the shit hit the fan and I was like I don't actually want to do this though. I've got my pieces of paper, that's enough.
Speaker 1:I don't want to do it anymore so what led you into becoming a teacher yourself? So you said you studied with Lauren.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she can back me up in this, complaining like I wanted to leave university the whole entire way through. Even before Christmas in the first year I was like how do I get out of this place? Like I don't want to do it so bad like. But I got to meet all my best friends and I wouldn't be in Barcelona if it weren't for that. So it all happened for a reason just not for my career, I think.
Speaker 2:But um, no, I had gone and done my foundation year in art and design and dairy for the first year. Really good course, what do you call it? The Northwest Regional College? Yeah, that was free as well time. It was such a good course. And then I had applied to do illustration. So I got into Cheltenham and the place was unreal and the man that interviewed me was wearing like a wee dickie bow and braces and he like drinking his lovely green tea and he was like taking notes and at the end it turned around his notebook and he just drawn a picture of me and I was like I love this place so, but it was just way too expensive. Like it was not possible, because you know from being from the republic that it's just to get the funding to go to university. It's not the same as when you're in the north of Ireland, so then it was like second choice. Then my mom was like you can't sit around and not do anything, so you have to go and do teaching.
Speaker 1:So I went and did teaching oh, what a cute thing for that teacher to do.
Speaker 2:I know, the place looks so good For that university. Their first school trip, or the first trip for the year, for the first years, they took them to Amsterdam and then they used to take them to parks. They're like oh dear, this is my dream. But no, maybe this wouldn't have happened if I had gone there anyway.
Speaker 1:That's it. I'm a really big believer in things happening the way they're meant to, even if it takes you the long way around. The friends you picked up on the way were the people that you were meant to have.
Speaker 2:Exactly, I wouldn't be speaking to you. Well, here we are.
Speaker 1:So we did know about each other long before we were doing ours.
Speaker 2:Must have been 2011. Was it 2011, 2012?
Speaker 1:2012. Yeah, mad, absolutely mad. That's 13 years, my gosh we all know well, it's been fascinating seeing you emerge, kind of, and seeing where you've taken it. Let's go back to the teaching. You qualified as a teacher and then what happened?
Speaker 2:so then I was working. So this is a weird thing. I worked in a cafe right next door to the university and I loved working in that cafe so much it's one of my favorite jobs I've ever, ever, ever had. So I continued to live in Belfast after that and I was doing substitute teaching, doing my own art as well at the same time, and then working in the cafe too, and then it turned into do you remember the first ever crisp sandwich cafe in the world? Do you remember this thing? So we moved into the city center but there was no hot food license.
Speaker 2:So instead of having a normal like greasy spoon sort of cafe, I was like what about turning it into a crisp sandwich shop, like the way the people did it like serial killers in London, because they were Irish as well. So we did it sort of just as a joke to see how it went. And the whole thing sold out in the first day. Like it was like two o'clock we had to close. There was like queues of people out in the snow, did all these things.
Speaker 2:But anyway, that didn't turn out to be as successful as I thought and at one point my boss had to turn around to me on the Wednesday and said that the place was closing on the Sunday, I think it was. So he was like so we need to like, close up shop. And I was like that was my main source of income. So then I had to leave Belfast and move in with my mom and dad and I was like, no, can't do this either. So then I moved over to America and I was there for three months working in a bar and during that time I got the opportunity to come to Barcelona. So then I moved here for six months, and that was nine years ago.
Speaker 1:I love. I went to London for a year and that was four years now and you're. I think you're settled there as well yeah, yeah, it'll be four years this year, but that's it. You don't know where you're going to end up. You're just redirected to where you're meant to go. It's like just give it a go, keep an open mind, just be like.
Speaker 2:Or again like it's just when the shit hits the fan and you don't know what you're supposed to do but where you're meant to go. It's like just give it a go, keep an open mind, just be like. Or again like it's just when the shit hits the fan and you don't know what you're supposed to do, but you just keep going with it anyway, and then opportunities just seem to arise. Yeah, really nice to just land on your feet somehow.
Speaker 1:That's it or on your ass.
Speaker 2:On your feet or on your ass. But I think a really important part of that is your attitude. Yeah, no, but you need to keep that attitude because, like again, like you were saying, people with notions are just believing stuff that's so ridiculous. There's not enough people that do that, so not enough people are trying to do the ridiculous stuff. So there's more opportunity. You know what I mean? Delusion is the word.
Speaker 1:We love a bit of delusion over here. It's so important that people try and do things and learn from it. Whether it's successful, that's wonderful. If it's not, at least you've learned something and you can apply it again the next day.
Speaker 2:Well, I've tried to say this to my dad one time and I was like, well, if I didn't make mistakes, what would I make? And he's like sense, you make sense.
Speaker 1:Fair enough, I was thinking about that your parents seem lovely and they seem really supportive. So when you headed off to Barcelona, were you teaching first?
Speaker 2:yes, when I moved over here, I was working in a nursery and then I left the nursery and I started working as a nanny. I had the same boy for four years. Oh my god, he was such a good boy. Oh my god, my favorite. He's one of my favorite jobs as well. And then I started teaching more teaching adults and company, and then after that I started teaching art in a private school and I did that for four years and then that's when the stick that broke the camel's back and I went to America again there.
Speaker 2:There seems to be a pattern form in here, doesn't there?
Speaker 1:Back to America. It's like your safe space.
Speaker 2:I know, just take off rolling. Well, that's what you get when you get two passports You're allowed to just take off absconding somewhere.
Speaker 1:Freedom, and whenever you want to get away fromica, you're there.
Speaker 2:No, no. So I then it was after I finished the that last teaching job. I was like, no, this is not for me, definitely I'm not going back to teaching. I could do private classes, I think, or working as a nanny, something like that I could easily do, but no, the whole primary system.
Speaker 1:Don't ever put me in there again, please what was it that made you be like I can't do this anymore and I'm just gonna get out there and just try doing my own thing?
Speaker 2:well, it was. The school that I was in was particularly difficult. I think it's just private schools are just not the thing. Like they banned me from wearing my sunglasses on the playground when I was out doing patio duty it's so sunny in this country and it's white concrete Like how can I vigil it if I can't even see the children? They were just normal sunglasses and then they banned Doc Martin type shoes, so I was just wearing my brogues. They said that I wasn't allowed to wear them. I was like what am I supposed to wear? I don't understand if I was coming in in a big pair of new rocks with flames up the side or something. They're just brogues now. It was quite a strict, strict environment to be in, so I needed to get out, yeah, and focus on the art.
Speaker 1:It sounds like you did the right thing, but that's absolutely wild that they wouldn't let you wear brogues or something. Why? What was they're the most?
Speaker 2:sensible shoes. They're like wee old man shoes for a funeral.
Speaker 1:Why no sunglasses? You look too cool, miss, just too cool for school. You're too cool to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's why I left. I was just officially too cool for school, yeah. So then I left and went over to America and I was working in a bar over there too, and the money was very, very nice, very good money, and then doing street art at the same time. So it was a very successful trip.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that you managed to break free and now you can wear whatever you want. That's magic, exactly.
Speaker 2:Well, I suppose this isn't video. People don't see this, but you can see it. This is not my choice. I suppose this isn't video, people don't see this, but you can see it. This is not my choice.
Speaker 1:It's just cold. It's so cold right now in London, but you have the beautiful weather of Barcelona, hopefully coming back soon, hopefully.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's coming back. I think we get a cold snap next week where it's going to be one degree, and we're not prepared for that over here, like our buildings are not insulated, we don't. We're not ready, but you have the tips from home.
Speaker 1:You know the crack. Yeah, I'll be fine. I'll water bottles go over. Yeah, you'll be grand. So you are now in Barcelona full-time, which is wonderful. You're doing lots of work. So I would love to talk about your character, ita, who is, I'm gonna say, sassy you might have a better word. Yeah, that's not right, she's sassy, she's a badass. She has a don't fuck with me attitude, which I love completely yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:I didn't really think about it until recently. It's when I had to do my artist statement for the, the show when art came in and I put that off and put it off because I find it one difficult to actually speak about things when they're important or try to look into it, you know what I mean. Like it's just, oh, this is gonna like drag up emotions that I don't know if I'm ready to deal with them. So then I had to sit down with the owner of Artkemi Bernardo, and the more that we started going through things, the more I was starting to understand what she was, more myself, and I was like, oh god, this is like therapy, like I wasn't ready for this. So she was very much created at a time where I think I felt like everything was out of control around me and I felt like the things had just been pulled out from under my feet because I went from being in a really long relationship and in my 20s to suddenly I was like fucking in my 30s. Covid happened.
Speaker 1:I was now single and then living with my parents. I was what the fucking, what is this?
Speaker 2:it works so hard and this is what I get like this is not fair. So she was definitely created in a moment of rage and I think it was just my outlet to get my rage out there at the time, and so many people connect to it, which is really, really nice. The amount of people that write to me on Instagram and it's just the people that follow it are the sweetest, sweetest people I've ever met in my life where they're so kind, but then they've got the rage inside them too. You're my people.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love it. But there's something so interesting. It's like such a juxtaposition between a cute character with like anger. I love it.
Speaker 2:And kids love it. There was at the show the show that I did in December. There were so many kids that came to it, but it was their parents that were really encouraging them, so it was like that they were just happy that their child had any interest in art or wanted to go to these things. And I met this wee girl, maria, and she was the cutest thing I had ever seen. Her brother brought her over to introduce her to me and she was like a little matilda, tiny, tiny person with these big purple glasses, and she was showing me that she loved the one doing the middle fingers, but she was refusing to put her fingers up because it was too bad and I was like, oh, so surreal. But yeah, there's loads of kids that are involved in it too, so it's not that.
Speaker 2:I hate children. I just didn't like teaching in that setting.
Speaker 1:I do enjoy them. I won't be titling this tiny child hater clickbait, right? No, I think that's totally fair as well. I love kids like. I love how that a lot of stuff that I make for the streets is like cartoony and bright and like neon glittery, like if you saw that as a kid, you would love it. Yeah, it's so lovely, like the amount of parents that reach out to you and say my kid loves this and there's just so much joy in that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's unbelievable. I love that I can still make the connection somehow. Even though I'm not teaching them art, they can still see it and appreciate it and do something similar yeah, which is lovely there's a girl back home and her wee daughter recreates ethos at home. They're so beautiful. Yeah, she sends me three photos of them.
Speaker 1:She's really good so, so sweet, but you're.
Speaker 2:You're also obviously inspiring people, just not in a classroom yeah, because even in the classroom, like the whole idea of me doing that type of art would have to be completely secret.
Speaker 1:There's no way I could have shared that to those students in that school, but that's how I could have gotten fired report yourself she's on those shoes again oh, I'm so glad that that worked out and that you ended up taking this little bit of anger that you have, or you had at the time, and then making it something that's so recognizable now.
Speaker 2:Yeah because my sister messaged me at a time and she's like um, do you notice any correlation between your mental health and how many eaters are on the street? Well, now that you mentioned it, because I was getting up at like six in the morning because there was a, there was a curfew at that time as well. You had to be home from 10 10 at night until six o'clock in the morning, so everything was just closed like even there was nothing open during the day either just like normal supermarkets and hairdressers and things.
Speaker 2:So I was getting up to get down to the beach for sunrise but I was doing my paste ups the whole way down and then cycling back up and taking my photographs. So it was just movement is medicine. I was still doing all of those things, but she was a good thing to get me out of the house and go in as well yeah, I genuinely think art is therapy.
Speaker 1:I really do, and so many people don't realize it, but they're actually doing self-portraits, whether they were.
Speaker 2:Well, I know I didn't realize this about her until recently. Oh god, it's me. I still don't know if it's me, but there's definitely traits in there, yeah yeah, I mean you're saying artist therapy. When the lead up until that show this year it did not feel that way at all. It was the most stressed I've ever been doing art. I was not enjoying the process at all.
Speaker 1:So let's talk, talk about that actually. So you had a solo show this year, which is amazing. Last year it's still on right now. Actually, Congratulations. Tell us. How did it all come about. What was it? Like You've just said, it was challenging.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was.
Speaker 2:I think it was just July in the year past that it was Ian and Bernardo in our Caymay Gallery that asked me to come in for a meeting, because I signed with that gallery when I decided not to go back to America, so it was a couple of months afterwards.
Speaker 2:They had said that they wanted me to be the next solo show that was on there and I was like this is the best thing ever and I love this and I've got so many ideas and I went like completely over the top with all of the ideas that I had and then felt like I couldn't do anything and then got like this whole paralysis of not being able to do any of the ideas that I wanted to do and then just got completely stuck and I was like I don't know if I like art I never wanted to paint ever again like I drove myself insane completely, but then towards the end, I pulled myself out of that, thank god.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think it was a really good thing to do, because now I would definitely love to do it again and I would have different tactics as to how coping mechanisms, as to how to go about it, but no, I was an over my head, I think, for the last couple of months, if I go honest, the thing is, once you've done it, once you know you can do it again because you're like I've survived absolutely and just learn from the mistakes as well.
Speaker 2:And my sister my sister sent me a voice message the day before the show and she's like, oh, it's shitty knicker time, you're gonna be shitting your pants. And she's like I can't wait for your message the next day. That's like that was the best day of my life and I can't wait to do it again. She knows me like. I am so predictable, straight away.
Speaker 1:I was like again. Let's do it again yes, and what was it like? So you had your own show. You had everyone come for the opening night. How did you feel?
Speaker 2:oh, that, night was unbelievable and like the weather was well. My birthday was on the third and then this was on the fifth as well, so it was a double celebration and it wasn't even cold that night, which was so surprising, because normally it's cold for my birthday. But anyone that was giving me a hug outside they were like you're really cold. I was like no, I'm just really nervous and when I was trying to speak to people and be like, be the proper artist, formal person, my chin kept going like chattering because I was so nervous but the because when you're in the middle of it you don't really I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's hard to soak up what's actually happening around you. So I was just focusing mostly on my friends and just being present with the people I was speaking to. But the next day then you go through like analysis and see how things went and the owners were telling me they were like normally at those shows it's like 50% the artist friends and then 50% it's people that are just sort of moseying and then the art scene and stuff and they were like this was the weirdest group that we have ever seen. Like there were so many kids. It turned into a full-blown party. It was hard to tell who was your friends and who were the people visiting.
Speaker 2:Like it really turned into a proper full-blown event, like the way Shania Twain blasting at the end. It was fantastic. That sounds amazing, such a good night. And like they made me stand up and do a speech uh, and they promised me that they weren't going to do that and like people are supposed to be standing in front of me. This is how it normally goes in that gallery space where everyone has to go down. Now my friend stood in a semi-circle behind me like booing, because they were also hammered, and then for my speech I panicked and I curtsied and give the middle finger, just said go fuck yourselves, it was on brand, it was okay anybody who was there for the show knows what's up oh god, they promised me that they weren't going to make me speak.
Speaker 1:I was like please, after all of this effort, if I do not make me speak, I can't do it.
Speaker 2:And then they did, so that's what I did to retort.
Speaker 1:I wonder. Will they be like that was amazing and let's make her do a speech next time, or what? No more speeches. I started throwing bottles and stuff oh no, it's so good. I'm so delighted for you that this character has brought you now to being the artist that you always were insane like it's so surreal.
Speaker 2:It really doesn't make any sense, because it was so quickly this year then to go home and then everybody at home asking me about it. I was like I don't understand what's happening. I love it, but I don't understand it. Just keep going with it.
Speaker 1:I always thought ETA would be a really good book, like a children's illustration book. I always thought that would be a really good thing and I listened to the fantastic interview that you did with City Kitty. I recommend everybody goes and checks out and you mentioned that was something you would quite like to do. Is that in your plans?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because this year, even though that I've been drawing, painting bigger things and painting on canvas like after preparing for the show see just the act of just drawing small things and sketching. It is just the nicest thing to go back to again. I'm like I'm home again. So, yes, that's what I want to get back to this year. I'm not sure if Eda's going to be the main character, but there is a book in the works oh, that's so exciting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an author and illustrator. That's what I always wanted to be. So I think now is the time. Strike when the iron's hot.
Speaker 1:Exactly, Especially if you have the inspiration and you've just done a very big different project.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's definitely where I'm most comfortable, like. Roald Dahl is my idol.
Speaker 1:How do you go about getting into that? How do you go about starting? If you're going to create a book from scratch, how do you go about getting into that? How do you go about starting if you're going to create a book from scratch? I'm not 100% sure because the people that I know that are working as illustrators.
Speaker 2:it's normally someone else has written the book and then they're illustrating it and then I've been looking at scenes a lot recently, but I don't think there's any money in scenes. They're more like passion projects, more so than that. So I think it would getting the idea roughly in the format of a book and then taking it to editors and publishers. I think that's what I'd have to do. Scary. Now that I know how to do one thing, let's do something else.
Speaker 1:I don't know how to do things Exactly. Never be boring.
Speaker 2:Keep those notions Just keep myself in a constant state of panic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great, because you're going to learn something brand new and you're going to get to do something that you've never done before. And then, after you've done that, you'll be like OK, I'm bored, what's next?
Speaker 2:In the midst of that, I can promise you that I'm going to be like I hate this too, and then I'll love it at the end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is genuinely the artistic journey. I believe Everything I ever create.
Speaker 2:I go through like iterations of it where I just like I just can't get it right and it's really frustrating, and then by the end I'm like, okay, I'll be, I can step away from this now. Is it the same with your music too? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that too. We're talking about positivity and putting yourself out there and we just a whole podcast about eating things no, I do.
Speaker 1:I love it, like whenever I'm DJing or whenever I'm putting a mix together. I love it. It makes me so happy. When I'm in the studio I'm just like beaming with happiness. But whenever you're trying to get something right and it's just not working, you have to change it and it could be really frustrating. Things aren't working out. But then when you finish that and you've got the sense of achievement, like I nailed that now I'm really happy with it. It's the best feeling.
Speaker 2:Oh, my god, the best, the best, yeah and then selling is quite nice too, like I don't need external validation.
Speaker 1:Yes, we do give me a gold star, please so that's another really good topic actually is moving from being somebody who's employed, even if it's a job that you absolutely hate, the bravery to be like I'm not doing this anymore and I'm going to go and I'm going to focus on the passions and the things that make me happy, and obviously you have to keep a roof over your head while you're doing that. It's a really brave step to step away from the very secure world of teaching.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but the money was so bad still, it wasn't that difficult to separate from that. Honestly, the money was so bad Nobody would believe me when I was in America. Per hour, no a month, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but really no, it was so bad.
Speaker 1:But it's still a very brave thing to step away from security to do it. Do something brave and on your own. So thank you. It is. It's amazing to see that If somebody else is looking for the courage to go and follow their dreams and their passions, what advice would you give them?
Speaker 2:Oh God, it's a really, really, really tough one. I think it's very important to have to keep your day job and the dream at the same time. It sounds very, very, very boring, but it is just so important. So you don't leave yourself a shit creek without a paddle, but it is just so important. So you don't leave yourself a shit creek without a paddle. And I think by doing that, if you can still get your art out there at the same time as working full-time, then you know that you can do it afterwards as well. But you need to put in the time. That's all it is. Unfortunately, it ain't easy.
Speaker 1:I just spoke to House of Lucy recently, who's an absolute icon. She's amazing, and she gave very similar advice because she also had a full-time job. Well, she was. She was a freelancer, but for magazines, and then she became freelance and was doing art for herself, and her advice is really similar. And it's excellent advice because, like I said, you have bills to pay, you have to keep a roof over your head and be able to hustle while you do that.
Speaker 2:I think you're working three jobs at the same time. Yeah, so if you can do that because most like I've noticed for myself mostly when I'm happiest and things are happening in the best way, it's normally when all the plates are spinning, like there has to be like five different things at the same time, and it's like normally when that happens, it should be that everything is done or not done as well as it should be. It's the opposite for me, it's like it's all done better and more efficiently, which is quite strange.
Speaker 1:I'd imagine you're the same we all have such different personality types. Like some people dream of the nine to five and excel and spreadsheets, and other people which I have a corporate job and I really like it, but other people just want to be freelance creatives. Give me my paintbrushes and just let me create. The reality is, if you're an artist or a creative, you're probably somewhere in the middle. You're doing the day job to pay for the materials that you need to follow your dreams yeah, oh.
Speaker 2:The thought of a spreadsheet makes me want to throw up. I hate them.
Speaker 1:I'm allergic to them oh no, I love a spreadsheet Show me Excel.
Speaker 2:Give me an anti-histamine.
Speaker 1:I hate them?
Speaker 2:Oh no, and then people try and make them color-coded to make them look friendlier. Nah, don't fool me. Hate them, take them away.
Speaker 1:Not you me here, yeah, but that's just exactly it. Like it's all different types of people and even people color-coding their Excel they're creative, this is their outlet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just keep it to yourself, explain it to me in a nice way, but don't show it to me at all. I can't look at those rectangles no.
Speaker 1:So you're definitely doing what is right for you in the fact that you're freelance now and you're doing this for yourself.
Speaker 2:I hope so. At the moment it's feeling pretty good.
Speaker 1:Good, so you are happily in Barcelona right now. What is next for Tiny or Teenie? If the Spanish fans are listening to this, what's next for Teenie?
Speaker 2:Next for Tiny, tiny or Teenie, I think. I say Tiny, I'm going to get back into doing paystops again. I was working on a good couple of them today because the police cracked down recently and the fines went from being 75 maximum to 600. So that's a big chunk of money and the last time that they called me they took what's the equivalent of your national insurance number here and we're like we know your stuff and if we see more popping up then we've just connected it to your account and I go oh no, oh no, they were undercover too, and they were like beside me while I was doing the piece and they look like tourists with their little backpacks.
Speaker 2:And then they just flashed the badge and I was all oh, you tricked me because they were like, oh, so cool, are you the artist? Yes, that's me. Gold sticker pat on the head. No, fine, they didn't find me. But I was given the warning. But that's because I was doing the big, big, big pieces in the center. But I think again, like I said about the small sketches, I want to go back to the roots of doing my wee, small, funny ones where she interacts with the environment a bit more again, a bit more imagination, and then the book. I think I want it all to be a little bit smaller. I have a couple of ideas as well that aren't exactly the tiny, the tiny brand, or with Ita, where there's other ideas of prints and things that I want to do, but I'll do completely separate. What's the word? What's the word if you have a fake name? A fake?
Speaker 2:name of a fake name alias yes for pseudonym yeah, pseudonym yeah, for other things as well, just to keep on the back burner, I think that's a plan for the new year that's exciting and that's a really common thing to do.
Speaker 1:Like the thing about Eta is she's like so recognizable. She's almost like a logo or a brand, exactly without seeing tiny, you know immediately that's her with this other alias or pseudonym. You can just create and try it out and play around and there's no pressure, exactly because this like this has now been going.
Speaker 2:it'll be five years this july and even though, like there's like the ideas are never ending and there's so many things that I can do, but I just think for myself as well, to feel a bit more. I don't know, it's not that I'm bored of doing ethan, but there's just, there's other stuff that I want to venture into as well, so I can keep them both going. Again, got the plate spinning? I keep them both going at the same time. I think it's necessary to have something else ongoing.
Speaker 1:Another plate, throw another plate on More Another. Well, you'll never be bored, and I'm so sorry that you got that fine from the police.
Speaker 2:I didn't get it, though I didn't get it, though I didn't get the fine, they let me away. But they just warned me.
Speaker 1:And then the other time that I was out pasting to advertise for that show, they caught me and I was like oh no, because it was undercovers again, but it was only for the beer that was in my hand, it wasn't for the pasting, so it was only, it's only, 25 euro that you know what, when I was in Barcelona last, I was pasting with my boyfriend he's an artist as well we were pasting and I I have a sense for police or guards could tell. I swear. It was so strange. I just had a feeling this. Something clicked in my brain. I was like okay, danger. And I just looked around and I saw this guy and I was like he's undercover. Oh god, he wasn't. He didn't appear to be looking at us, and some of them are so gorgeous as well.
Speaker 1:Beautiful snake but yeah, I swear, I had a feeling like my danger senses tingled, my peace sense tingled, and then I looked around and I was like it's him. I was like let's get out of here. So we dished and we went back up to the main boulevard, la Rambla, okay so you must have been down in Gothico where you were born.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'd been in both. We'd been all over the city that day. And then I clocked this, we went this. We went to the next spot and he was looking through all these fly posters that had been like taken down because he collects them and makes collage out of them. So he was like looking through these and your man showed up again. I just looked at him and pointed at him and said he's been following us. Oh god, like at him. And then he got freaked out and like walked away. But he was, he was undercover and he was followed.
Speaker 2:The amount of things that they could be doing in this city, instead of just picking people out for putting a sticker somewhere like please, lads, get over yourselves More important things to be done Much more important things. The last time that I got caught, I asked him could I see his badge as well, because I really didn't believe. And my friend was like you don't start arguments. I was like but I wasn't though, but I was in a really dodgy place so like I'm not going to, take out my wallet card out of my wallet unless I know that he's actually police like I was protecting myself.
Speaker 2:I wasn't fighting. He's like don't ask any questions ever, so they definitely have cracked on here quite a bit, oh it's a shame, but hopefully, if you're doing smaller pieces, hopefully you can be discreet about it and I think going out on my own as well.
Speaker 2:I think I get better ideas when I'm on my own. I find better places like going as a group. I don't think suits me and I think maybe that insults people sometimes when I say it, but it's like it's not. It's not you, it's me, it really is me. I just don't see the places where I want to put anything like I need. It's just me and my zone doing it.
Speaker 1:I think that's how it works better that's so true as well, because it's sometimes lovely to go out as a big group and kind of do a big takeover, but it draws a lot more attention to what you're doing yeah, but you have more lookouts as well, which is good, and there's more people to kind of charm. If somebody shows up, you can kind of oh, we're just a group, we, we're an art company.
Speaker 2:That's why the guys like the proper like tag artists here, like the people that do spray and stuff they used to always bring me along because they thought it was just easier to have me there for the place as a distraction. They were like, look at her, like she's not going to do anything.
Speaker 1:Look how sweet, sweet and innocent. I wouldn't do anything like that Just before we wrap up today. I like that just before we wrap up today. I know something else that you've been working on, because I've seen it and it's very, very cool, and that is your t-shirts that you've got at the moment. Can you tell us how did that all come about?
Speaker 2:so again, it's just Instagram has been the thing that has given me the outlet, like even meeting you. Everything has kind of come from Instagram. For me, if you use it as a tool in the right way, it is fantastic. So it was a Scottish guy, callum, that works like he does screen printing here in Barcelona and I had done a paste up. I think it's on the corner of his apartment and it was his girlfriend had spotted it like Ingrid was like Callum, I love her, we need to find her. And then he reached out about doing a collaboration. So this is probably two or three years ago as well and since then, like we've just been adding in different products, but this year we've got like a different line that's coming out. We started it last May and it's taken until now because he brought like a brand new studio and he was like doing all the renovations and stuff in it. But now we're back on track again and there might be pinafores pinafores, oh, that's so cool is absolutely beautiful, like the quality of the stuff that he does.
Speaker 2:It's beautiful, like you can see the video I'm wearing a tiny on-brand merch. I'm wearing it you can't see it, but I'm wearing it can you tell us where people can find that? I think I have the link on my Instagram. I have it like look at bio, one of those deckhands, aren't they? Yeah, mine's there, so it's like Callum Design Studio, but it'll be in there. Yeah, callum Design Studio, tiny. You can find it through that.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. And where can people find you on Instagram to go and see Eta for themselves? If they're not already familiar, I'm sure they are. So mine is tiny hands, big heart, because my hands look how small they are.
Speaker 2:You actually have really tiny really small hands, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I have a giant head as well, though, I've been explaining to my boyfriend the concept of big Irish head on you just chatting with big Irish heads, did you see the science project, the? Way you did yesterday.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it's been debunked, so we don't have big heads yeah, it's been debunked.
Speaker 1:This young scientist did a hilarious. Well, it wasn't meant to be hilarious. She did a science project on big Irish heads. Is it factual that Irish people have big Irish heads and apparently not. It's been debunked. You definitely do have tiny heads, fantastic.
Speaker 2:I have a friend as well, called well, he's called Pete, but he's got his artist name as well, for his music is Worseners. And then he has another one called Pete Loaf. I'm not sure which one he recorded off, but he has a song called Big Irish Heads and it's fantastic.
Speaker 1:I'm going to have to send it to you, please do. That's amazing. I'll check that out. So Tiny. Thank you so much for this chat. Like I said, it was a long time coming. Yeah 13 years that I've known about you oh my God, before the world of street art and it's been over a year since we were meant to do this first, so I'm delighted we finally got to. Thank you so much for your time Got there.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Everybody. Please go and check my name. All links will be in the description of the podcast. There you have it. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of this is disruption. If you enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to follow the podcast and never miss an episode. You can find us on social media. You can find the podcast at thisisdisruptionpod on Instagram and TikTok and you will find updates and snippets of upcoming shows. Until next time, keep challenging the status quo, embracing your creative spirit, and be brave. Go and create. Thank you, and see you in the next episode.