This is Disruption
This is Disruption podcast explores the pursuit of creativity and shares the stories of the fearless creators in street art, graffiti, music, photography and beyond, who boldly challenge the status quo, break barriers for others and share their work unapologetically. Each episode is a deep dive interview exploring the lives of artistic risk takers, exploring their motivations, their inspirations, and their take on the power of art, in whatever form they make it in.
The podcast is hosted by Irish street artist and DJ, Did by Rua, based in London.
This is Disruption
Vanessa Wallace: Becoming a Paralympian - The Power of Yes, Red Lipstick and a Tweet
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How does one become a Paralympian? Vanessa Wallace's answer might surprise you: "Red lipstick, a tweet, and a year of saying yes."
I was lucky to speak with the incredible Vanessa Warner, a former Paralympian, who shares the journey that took her from facing serious health challenges to representing Great Britain at the Paralympic Games. This was a deeply moving conversation, I had goosebumps during the interview and got very teary whilst editing it in a coffee shop. Growing up in North London, Vanessa was diagnosed with Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and dystonia – conditions that changed her life trajectory. However, through what she describes as a series of fortunate encounters and a commitment to saying "yes" to new opportunities, she discovered a path to elite sports that nobody (including herself) could have predicted.
Vanessa's story is especially interesting as she's never considering herself naturally competitive. She instead developed a strategy focused on tiny, manageable goals rather than overwhelming four-year Paralympic cycles. "Can I get through today? Can I figure out what I need to do today to do tomorrow?" This perspective not only carried her through eight years as an elite athlete but continues to influence her work as a professional development coach and storytelling facilitator today.
The conversation explores the vital importance of community support, representation in Paralympic sports, and the power of embracing your unique differences. Vanessa's "Turn Up Your Volume" storytelling workshops now help others discover their authentic voices and share their stories effectively. As she powerfully states, "Your differences are your superpower" which I know is a message that will resonate whether you're an athlete, creative, or corporate professional.
Vanessa is such a special women and she truly lights up every room she's in. Follow Vanessa @freshness_uk on social platforms and discover how your story, authentically told, is exactly what the world needs to hear.
Vanessa's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freshnessuk/
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Hello there. You are very welcome to. This is Disruption podcast, with me, your host Rua. This podcast brings you in-depth interviews with the fearless creatives in street art, graffiti, music, photography and beyond, who boldly challenge the status quo, break barriers for others and share their work unapologetically. Each episode is a deep dive into the lives of artistic risk takers, exploring their motivations, their inspirations and their reasons for their willingness to disrupt societal norms. Some of these stories involve revolutionising their industries, while others are pushing the boundaries of legality with their art. Coming up on today's episode.
Speaker 2:When asked, how did I become an athlete? What made me become an athlete, I say red lipstick, a tweet and a year of saying yes. Sometimes your biggest decision is simply have a go, try a ting, as Granny would say. It's hard. It's hard sometimes again believing in yourself when you're getting a thousand no's, when people are like, no, that's not my thing, no, I'm not interested. And you're like, well, I'm interested, interested in it. That's what makes it important. When you've got people who will speak your name in spaces that you're not in, oh, you can do some fun stuff. People know what you're doing. Let people know what you need, but, more importantly, be ridiculously kind to yourself.
Speaker 1:be really, really kind this conversation with vanessa was so special. I had chills while I was recording it with her. She is so inspiring and such a wonderful person, and when I was editing it in a coffee shop, I got very teary and emotional because it's such a good chat. I can't wait for you to hear it. As always, these episodes are best enjoyed if you listen while you create something. This is Disruption. Today is a super special interview because I am honoured to be having a chat with Vanessa Wallet. Vanessa is a retired elite athlete who uses a manual wheelchair and she has represented Great Britain in the Paralympics, which is amazing. This is a fascinating topic in itself and I have so many questions. But Vanessa also has a creative side and has been pursuing her love of storytelling with the goal of teaching others the power of their story. She's also a professional development coach. Vanessa, I am so excited to talk to you. I have so many questions. Thank you so much for your time. How are you doing today? I am doing absolutely amazingly.
Speaker 2:Thank you, it's so lovely hearing all of that it's all true.
Speaker 1:It's all true. Like I said, we have so much to talk about, yeah, so thank you so much for your time. I'm so delighted to have this opportunity. I generally like to start at the beginning, so can you please tell us about your early years and the experiences that have shaped you into who you are today?
Speaker 2:Oh okay, so early years. So early years started in North London, although apparently I was born. I was born in North London and then started in Billericay, of all places, in Essex, and then came back to North London as a little bubby. I am from a Jamaican heritage family, which absolutely has influenced who I am. I actually name my inner Jamaican she's called Martha after my grandmother, my late granny, and I actually say that Martha is who won all of my medals, would you believe I love that. Yes, that's the character that came out. So we've got Ness that's, you know, your day to day lovely for lovely one. And then you've got Martha, who's a little bit spicier. Yeah, she's a badass. Yeah, completely Red lipstick wearing badass.
Speaker 1:That's great. So you have Jamaican heritage, but you grew up in North London.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I'm still there to this day and my family is, I guess, relatively small by comparison to some others, but that's what it was. I remember finding out when I was young that I'd read all the books in the children's library. That literally summed me up Face in a book, sometimes hiding in a cupboard Because you know it's quiet in there, there's no humans. But that was me. I was someone who loved going to the park with mum and picking leaves up and then going to the library and identifying the trees. And I was that kid, I was that child. Yeah, that was me.
Speaker 1:You said you have a relatively small family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so mum's side is, I'd say, quite small. Granny came over from Jamaica and her sister, and I feel like there was a couple of cousins on that generational level and then you know, everyone's had children and children, and children, and then dad's family is definitely a lot larger, but I'm a little bit newer to that side of the family.
Speaker 1:I am from an Irish Catholic family and there is a lot of us, there's a lot of cousins, but it's lovely. It's nice when you have this connection with family and where you're from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, I would 1000% agree with that. Like the cultural wise, like my everyday connection with Jamaica is food. Oh my goodness, there isn't a day that goes past that I don't have something from Jamaican culture. It's just, it's my comfort food. Yeah, we'll have some of that today lovely and have you spent time?
Speaker 2:out there I've only been once. I actually went for my 19th birthday and I remember it raining and thinking, oh my gosh, we're going to get soaked. And then the rain was warm. I was like what is this, I like it. And and thinking, oh my gosh, we're going to get soaked. And then the rain was warm. I was like what is this? I like it. And then it stopped. I was like oh, definitely not like the British rain, I know it has a different personality it has multiple personalities throughout the day.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, it picks and chooses, but it's what we've got yeah.
Speaker 1:So you've grown up in North London, and what did you do there? Did you go to school? Did you go to school? Did you go to university? I went to school.
Speaker 2:My mum actually lives right by my old primary school or Infants and Juniors as it was called then and then I went across the park and that's where I went to secondary school. And then I had a little bit of time out and I actually went to university as an adult, a grown up. I just started working from when I was about 17. So I worked in retail and then worked in finance and then had a bit of a break which I think we'll probably come to and then found my way into sport, which was employment, and eventually as an athlete. So I kind of did it the other way around.
Speaker 1:Well, I can't wait to hear all about this. So can we talk about the break that you mentioned?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I should start with. So I say that I was a bit greedy at the buffet table of conditions so I picked up at least two, because you know why would you just have one? They might get lonely. So I have something called Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and there is a I think it's a Pixar movie, if we're allowed to do brands, but it was a film called the Incredibles and it was a family of superheroes and the mum used to have this fabulous red cat suit and she was really stretchy and bendy and that's a little bit like what EDS is like.
Speaker 2:So your connective tissue, instead of being long strands, it is almost like I say, it's almost like confetti. So things are not as I guess, supported. They're a bit more lax, they're a bit looser. Or you could compare it to when you take a balloon out of the packet, you try blowing it up, it hurts your cheeks because it's so hard to blow up and then, if you let the air out and you try and blow it up again, it's easier because everything's stretchier. We're like the stretchier versions.
Speaker 2:So EDS, which I knew about from when I was much younger, and then I have a condition called dystonia, which is entertaining is what I would say so. It's a neurological condition and it's a movement disorder. So the messages get a bit lost in translation. So it starts off in my brain, correctly. What it is when it reaches that part of the body is anybody's guess.
Speaker 2:So when I was throwing, when I was an athlete, I used to do what I'd call a royal wave.
Speaker 2:So instead of if you can imagine shot, put, if you've ever seen it you take a metal ball, put it to the side of your neck and you basically push it away from you as if you were throwing a punch almost.
Speaker 2:But you push it away and you flick your hand away from you, but with the dystonia I would push away and turn my hand as if I was doing a royal wave, like our queen used to, and that was the message getting completely lost. It didn't start that way, but it ended somewhere, did a bit of a almost like philosophical thing on life, and so a body that has a movement disorder, in a body that is very stretchy, it's just funky. Honestly, the things that my body gets up to. I'm just like, okay, today we're doing that one. But as a result, um, I did get quite unwell after an operation and my body just decided no, we're gonna, we're gonna take some time out, like long term time out, but sport and encountering sport brought me back into back into things is what I would say employment and also, yeah, eventually becoming an athlete amazing.
Speaker 1:So when you were going through this and taking time off, because sometimes, if you don't hear your body, your body will make you hear it. So you have to really stop. Yes, yeah, so how was that experience?
Speaker 2:hard, really tough. I said. I worked from when I was 17 to suddenly not being able to do the things I was used to being able to do. That's a, that's a head screw really, really tough, but less being less always talk about myself in the third person. I found something else, so I was like okay, if I can't physically manage getting to work or manage in work in the workplace, what else can I do? Because I don't do boredom, I must have something to do.
Speaker 2:So I discovered adult education and explored more of my creative side and started learning how to make underwear of all things. Yes, ness went and learned how to make knickers. That was me underwear, it was. So it was a lingerie city and guilds, um, and at the time, I was still functionally able to get to the class. It was starting to get to a real stretch at that point, though, so I did the lingerie run, um, I did corsetryetry, with this whole dream of maybe having an adapted underwear line, and then my fingers said no, we are not going to be pushing fabric under a sewing machine.
Speaker 2:Part of EDS is that your joints can sublux, which is a partial dislocation, or fully dislocate. So it's a party, absolute party, and my fingers were partying, so that had to stop. But it was lovely doing it. I like learning new things. If I don't know something, I quite appreciate that I don't know it, because then I've got a journey to learn it, even if it's something I don't use, and I love that. So that's why I ended up doing so. I did little bits of adult education just to try and keep, you know, can keep myself ticking over, and then when I couldn't do anything, I just had to stop and that's that was the hardest bit.
Speaker 1:I was. If you're somebody who's always striving to be learning and to be growing and to be developing, just doing, doing, yeah, yeah, I can imagine it would be really hard. So how did you come out of that? That was a really difficult time. How did you move past that?
Speaker 2:So I have been blessed to have some really interesting people come into my world. I say the universe sends them now and again. So there was a doctor called Professor Graham, rodney Graham, and he was a rheumatologist, a consultant, and, with the body being as funky as it was, eventually I was able to kind of get some hospital input and I went to Prof Graham and he started seeing me and then he told me about this programme. So there's a hospital called the Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital I hope I've got it in the right order up in Stanmore and it's known for its spinal and orthopaedic type work that they do so in this place. They have a program for people like me with my condition, so with EDS and it's's residential.
Speaker 2:So you move into the hospital for three weeks. You go home on the weekend, you have, you have homework, but it's unlike anything you can experience. So, whereby you know almost atypical NHS, you may see your consultant once twice a year. Maybe, depending on frequency of your appointments, you would see them, I think, every week. You would have access to the physiotherapist once or twice a week. So it's almost like you know your typical NHS management program on steroids and it changed my life in so many ways they recognized that I was no longer driving and they arranged for me to have a driving lesson. I thought I was just looking at an adapted car and then it was basically get your backside in there. I'm like for what? But to drive it? How do I drive something? I don't know how to drive? Please make it make sense.
Speaker 2:But again, it was just that exposure to things can be different in order to do the same, and that changed it so that they had a horticultural specialist again. How can you use horticulture as therapy but physically learn how do you do it as you are? Because that was the main thing. That and pacing techniques mind-blowing. Honestly, I could do a whole podcast on dash that alone.
Speaker 2:But more importantly, they had I used to call it adult PE, which I do realize sounds a little bit funny, but once a week they would take you into the sports hall and they would set things up so that, no matter how you were, what your function was, what your pain levels were, there was something you could engage with, because they've tried to eradicate every boundary, every barrier possible, boundary, every barrier possible. And I'm wheeling in there like you guys must be on crack if you think that us lot, who's literally got bits falling off us, are going to be able to do? Because I only knew PE in one way from school. So I went in and discovered that it was possible.
Speaker 2:Who knew? And I tried. A couple of bits came out tried. It didn't quite land the same way, but we will go back to that story afterwards. But that's what happened to change where I'd moved into and didn't know how to unstick myself and it was simply that I just didn't have the right input with other people thinking differently, experiencing things differently, to say actually, have you thought of that's so powerful, just for somebody else to show you what's possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's how I kind of that's how the shift to change happened when you finish your residential treatment there.
Speaker 1:how long was it between that and you taking up sport?
Speaker 2:your residential treatment there. How long was it between that and you taking up sport? Well, it was actually, I think it was about three years, so I was really blessed and got to do the programme three times, so between, I think, 2010 and 2012,. I think it was, and it was in 2012 that the sexiness happened, as I like to call it Okay, okay. So when asked, how did I become an athlete, what made me become an athlete? I say red lipstick, a tweet and a year of saying yes. What happened was I was looking for a walking group for my mum on our council's website and, being thorough, I was going from A to Z under events in case something was called, something that I wasn't expecting it to be called. I got to W and I saw wheelchair racing and I thought, well, that sounds like wheelchair basketball and I tried that a couple of years ago, thought I was going to die.
Speaker 1:So a little bit intensive for me.
Speaker 2:So I thought, I don't know, but curiosity. I clicked on it and it said come and try wheelchair racing or learn to push your own chair better. So they almost had two offerings within the same space and I thought, oh well, I wouldn't mind learning how to be a bit more independent in my chair, so it won't hurt, maybe, to just make an inquiry. Just an inquiry. So I dropped an email and they were more than happy for me to come along. The track was frozen at the time, so I had a delay of going down there, but I went, and that's when, again, I encountered some different people. So I was the only participant for the first maybe five or six months, so it was just me and the coach. The coach was also a chair user. That was a new thing for me. The coach got me into a gym. Didn't know that was possible because I'd had no exposure to it. So this is going on through the year. And then something else happened in 2012 with sport in the UK. What was that?
Speaker 2:I wonder it might have been like Paralympic Games or something like that, but from that we had a few more people turn up, so suddenly it wasn't Nessa. But from that we had a few more people turn up, so suddenly it wasn't Nessa, nomate, it was actually. We had a few people, but what came out of that was the activator who looked after athletics in the borough Shout out, tamsin Fudge, who was a phenomenal strategic consultant. I'm just putting her out there. She came to me and just said would you like to train up as a coach? Because I think you've got the personality and the skill set to do it.
Speaker 2:Now, I ain't never been no damn coach. I didn't know nothing about it, but what I did know was that I didn't like not having something to do and I thought I'm good with people and if this lady thinks, I'll give it a go. And I decided from that point point I was going to have this year of yes, whole year of saying yes to anything that came towards me, and it would sound bigger than it is, but it was more a case of I just didn't want things to stay the same. So if someone else thinks that I can do something, the worst I can do is have a go and try it out legal. So she put me on the course and then, I think within a few months, the coach left. I think he went back to uni or something like that. So they said would you like to take over the group? It was the year of yes, isn't it? So you've got to say yes, got no choice. The universe is listening. But more importantly and this links into the Paralympics in disability sport there's a process called classification and in classification it is to look at what competition group that you would compete in and it looks to try and level the playing field. So each sport will have a different set of criteria for each classification and it's to look at how does your disability impair you in your sport, not necessarily how disabled you are. It's like a little bit of a differentiation. So somebody put my name down for classification. Remember, I'm not training as an athlete, I'm not doing wheelchair racing. I think I did one 5k and thought not a damn chance, am I doing that again? That was way too much. But someone put my name down so I had to go because it's the year of yes.
Speaker 2:Year of yes got me in trouble. So I went. I went through the process, came out of the room and a gen called Steve, who is a coach up in Barnet in North London, shout out. Steve came up to me Ness, have you thought about being a thrower? You're built for it. And I just thought in that moment Steve, I love you. My inner Jamaican wants to have a conversation with you right now. However, year of yes. Ness is just nodding and being like what do you mean? And he said go down to this place, go and find this woman, she'll take care of you. And I thought, right, year of yes then, isn't it? So I'm going to this place, go and find this woman, she'll take care of you. And I thought, right, you're a yes, then, isn't it? So I'm gonna have to go. So I did, and this coach knows this person and thought it was quite humorous as to how he put it. But she says I can see what he means. You have the traits that you could potentially be an athlete. And I'm still sitting there like I don't know what you lot talking about and I had a couple of sessions with her went off.
Speaker 2:Did life fast forward to? So this must have been, I don't know, maybe like the March April, maybe of 2013, fast forward to about the November, late November, maybe early December 2014 so almost two years and the same coach tweets me and congratulates me on a role that I'd just gotten and then asked me essentially, when am I getting my backside back over to do some throwing? And I'm thinking, oh gosh, I don't know. You know, life is lifing right now. I don't know if I've got capacity. I then have a really great in-depth conversation with a colleague at work. We were talking about women and we're talking about bravery and things we would really love to do and what other things that sometimes, as women, can get us stuck, even if it's not our own doing. Big, deep conversation at lunch.
Speaker 2:I then end up in boots in wood green to buy some clear lip gloss, because that was, you know, that was my thing and I got tag-teamed by two ladies on the number seven counter who convinced and I say in quotation marks, convinced me to try some red lipstick and do some makeup, which just wasn't my thing at the time, and I felt really brave, ridiculously brave, by doing it and wearing it back to the car. So I tweeted back and it was like you know, when do you train? She's like well, same as when I met you two years ago love, I'll see you next week I thought, ah, really, okay, took me a couple of weeks to get there, tried it that was in December. I feel like it was Christmas week. I went back at the end of January, started training once a week. She got me competing by mid-April.
Speaker 2:I was British champ by the summer. British athletics then were like who the hell are you, where did you turn up from? And it just carried on from there so that by then that was 2015, beginning of 2016. I go back and get classified again internationally. By the summer I got my first GB call up and then, a few weeks after that, found out I was going to the Rio Paralympic Games Crazy story.
Speaker 1:Absolutely crazy.
Speaker 2:The power of yes, it is absolutely Power of yes, but also the power of no. That's another thing. But yeah, power of yes got me.
Speaker 1:Paralympian. I love that. I read an article that you'd done with Stylist which was so lovely, it was so good and it was really inspiring and you said something in there because you lipstick experience and I love that the little daily interactions you have with people. You have no idea the impact that you're having just by having a chat. That colleague that you had that really good chat with that was just a chat that day, but look at the difference it made and I love that something that you said in the article and I wrote it down because I was like I want to talk to her about this. This is amazing.
Speaker 1:You said it was scary to give up my job to commit to this without knowing what was on the other side. The bravest thing was actually saying I love this and I don't know what it looks like, but I'm going to give it a go. I say my inner Jamaican made that decision. I know that is Martha, not me, because she's braver than I am, and I just loved it because it's talking about bravery and taking the leap and believing that you can do something that you didn't know that you could do previously yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Martha. I said we said badass in with coaching clients I've had before. I do strongly recommend that people sometimes, when again you're not sure if you can then think about who could and can you name it or could it either even had some people you know they've changed. If you wear a certain color nail varnish, that's your prompt. So if you're going to have a meeting, if you're going to have a conversation, you're going to have an action and you're not too sure if you can, if you've got it, it's almost like paint your nails that color. You know that color, that specific one that you chose. So you know that's your armour and that's how you can move yourself forward.
Speaker 1:That's so powerful. I used to live in Amsterdam and work in Amsterdam and I had a boss there who was such an inspiration for me. Her name was Yanni and Yanni was such a badass, such a strong woman, she was amazing and she was very encouraging to me, loved her, very encouraging to me, loved her, I loved working with her, I loved working for her. But when I had to do something brave, if I was trying to make a decision and I I knew the right thing would be to do the brave thing but it was a scary thing I used to say what would Yanni do? And then I would do the brave thing. There you go. That's what Yanni would do. She's fearless, she would do the brave thing. So, yeah, it's having somebody that inspires you as well, that you're like I can do that. And we talked about seeing something done and knowing that if you see it and you see representation, you know that it's something that you could do as well, absolutely it's.
Speaker 2:It's more important than some people think about. You know, with children, you know they have role models. But even as adults we need role models. But if we don't know that moves can be made, that decisions can be made and again that thing around not always having the answers, then we don't always know that we've got that badassery in us, even though we absolutely have. I said I blame every single time, but it really does help to have representation, like even as an athlete.
Speaker 2:You know I wear many hats or wore many hats. So you know black, female, uk based and a field event athlete who is a wheelchair user, who competed sitting down and to compete for GB. I think I was one of the first and you're just thinking again in this day and age, how is that still a first? It's wonderful. But at the same time you know how do we grow from that. But when Steve came up to me and you know thought about being a thrower, it wasn't even on my radar of that's something I can do also. I grew up in the era of, like Jeff Capes and that kind of athlete, so I only knew shot put in one way. I only knew throwing in one way. Fatima Whitbread, like that was. Those were my, my people that I saw on TV. I didn't know about seated throwing most people don't so to be able to change the face of what that looks like in order, hopefully, as a legacy, to make it more available, more accessible, more known about. That's pretty cool, that's a pretty cool thing.
Speaker 1:That really is yeah, and you've done that and you're telling people that it can be done and showing them that it can be done.
Speaker 2:And again, it's not always that you have to have the absolute blueprint. Sometimes your biggest decision is simply just have a go, try a ting, as Granny would say.
Speaker 1:That's what she would say I love that Were you always competitive.
Speaker 2:No, I still don't think I am. My coach would probably agree. Um, I wasn't competitive, or maybe not competitive in the standard sense, maybe because I didn't really. You know, I did PE at school and then you leave school and you stop doing PE. Or I did um, let alone doing it in with discovering a new body and in a new space, um, but I wouldn't say that I was competitive. I would actually probably say I was the complete opposite, not confrontational, no major drive, nothing you know like, just exist and experience life. And then I got into this competitive environment. I'm like what is this? What do I do here? Well, the only thing I can do is just do me and figure out it as you go along.
Speaker 1:So no, I don't think others might change.
Speaker 2:Might might question that, but I would say that no, I'm not a overly competitive person.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's amazing. So what was it like being somebody who has gone into a typically very competitive environment to being, I imagine I correct me if I'm wrong surrounded by people who are very competitive? What was that like? Slightly scary?
Speaker 2:at first, but then it was again around. I guess building my I don't know boundaries it's not necessarily the right word, building, I guess, my space, what was it I was looking for out of the experience, and my thing again went back to just growth. Every training session was something new because I've never done this before. I didn't know I could do that. That day I didn't know that would fail. That day I didn't know I could do that. That day I didn't know that would fail. That day I didn't know I didn't know. So every day was the voyage of discovery. Every competition, my goodness, was that a voyage of discovery? But my thing was always what do I need to know out of this? And then that made it feel a lot safer to me and manageable.
Speaker 2:My mum has this wonderful saying, which is you know how do you eat an elephant? One, one bite at a time. And that's how I approached it. I kept what I was striving for tiny we're talking 24 hours whereby, you know, a lot of athletes will have a four year plan. Looking at the four year cycle of the games, I didn't want to think that far. It felt way too big and I didn't know if I had the skills to manage that or manage the disappointment when you build things up high. So my goalposts were tiny. Can I get through today? Can I get through today and figure out what I need to do today to do tomorrow? Okay, if I've gotten to tomorrow, how can I maybe make today better? It was literally just constant dance with myself. Really tiny goalposts.
Speaker 2:My coach was thinking long term. She had the bigger picture, but my thing was how do I manage myself in this new environment, this competitive environment, knowing I don't match that, what do I do? And it was that it was goalposts very small and I ended up getting some shiny things and doing some pretty cool stuff. So for me that worked. I know it doesn't work for everybody, but it just again. It kept things safe and it kept things manageable, whilst always knowing. The whole goal is just to know a bit more, and maybe it's around language rather than I need to achieve. No, actually, I just like to know how do I do this today and do it differently next week. That's it. Tiny goals, yeah, yeah, yeah. That kept me going for eight years it did.
Speaker 1:It really did so eight years in that space, when you had never expected to find yourself in that space. I can imagine that would change your life quite a lot. What was that experience like?
Speaker 2:up to now. I think I'm still processing it. I'm constantly just saying wow, even just explaining it and sharing it with other people. I hear myself and I'm like, yeah, that was yours. You know, you really did that. How did you do that? Well, you must have done it because you were there. It's, it's like amazement, still amazement. I mean, I'm honoured that I got to do it. I feel like I learned so much about myself. But what I found interesting was some of my closest long term friends said to me yeah, but who you were as an athlete is who we always knew you were. Maybe you just didn't know that. That was a lesson in itself. That took some. Some adapting to that took some adapting too.
Speaker 1:Something you've just touched on that I like to talk about is, first of all, believing that you can do things. Sometimes you can't see what you're capable of, but somebody else will see it in you, and this is the experience you had with Steve, and this podcast is called. This Is Disruption. I passionately believe in the power of breaking past people's expectations, disrupting societal norms. What society tells you you can and cannot do, and I love talking to people who have done it, who continue to do it and then lift other people. It's so important, and community is something that I like to talk about quite a lot as well, and you've mentioned some of the people around you, so how important is community?
Speaker 2:Community is something that I feel, as humans, we're not meant to be without. I think it is detrimental and dangerous when we are separated from community, and community can look so different to different people, and it can look different at different times of your life different ages, different environments, different roles, different whatever and it's that whole thing. You know you find your tribe, but sometimes you're in spaces where you don't. What does that feel like? How isolating can that be? And also it makes things harder because you're trying to do everything on your own. It's like that thing around with. Professor Graham was one of the first people who was my tribe and changed things by their input. It's so, so, so important because I feel as well, not only do you learn from community and they learn from you, but also it. It allows for growth, but it also allows for nurturing. So within sport, maybe I might get challenged by this, but no athlete does it on their own. You're not an island. It just doesn't, doesn't work that way. So part of your job as an athlete is to build that community, and so it could be your, your direct technical community, so your coaches and then maybe senior leadership in whatever sport you're doing. That's the community there, your training group, those people who are feeding into that element of you, that personality. Then you may have your support network outside of that. That could be friends, it could lead into family, it could be a neighbour, it could be anybody. And it's like you have these little, these little pods, and I couldn't have done any of this, even with me royal, with funky world wave, without my community, without my coach, who is now Dr Alison O'Riordan, without, you know, my uni seeing something and offering me a scholarship which allowed me again to build on that team, my original S&C coach, duncan Ogilvie. You've got your nutritionist, you've got your all your ists, all your um, your uh, what's the word beginning with a p? And I can't think of it. All the people who feed in. I'll find the word in eventually.
Speaker 2:But then having your people outside of sport is so important. When I've worked with athletes, that's been something to always look at. Who are your people outside of this space? Because sport is all consuming in all ways. If you don't have somewhere mentally to go, that's where things can get a bit dangerous, but that's where your communities can feed in. So is it that you need a hobby with other people? Is it that you need to engage with friends and family a little bit more or differently in order to just fill those gaps. We're allowed to fill gaps, it's not selfish. Again, this is where community comes in. Do you have somewhere you volunteer or work, or just who else is in that space? Because if it's just you one and all of those thoughts and all of those experiences good, bad and ugly you need to find the balance and that to me, community to me is one of the most important aspects of my life was there anybody who was particularly inspiring or a role model for you?
Speaker 2:I think there's just a list. There's a list of people. I think again, because if I think about sport, it was so new, everybody and everything that they did was new. And again it's that hunger for how do we do that? How does that happen? I don't want to do that, I actually don't want to do that. But how do you support that? How does that happen? I don't know what. I don't want to do that, I actually don't want to do that. But how do you support me in doing?
Speaker 2:And to me, anyone who ever gave their time, and especially in sport, like, shout out to volunteers and coaches and officials again, nothing can happen without you. That's another community that sometimes isn't really addressed, but those people supported, those people inspired they. They loved the fact that I used to wear really leery coloured leggings whenever I competed and it was just. You know, it was that it was. You're going to see a friendly face. They inspired, as I said, my coach. I've had some amazing women around me athletes, staff, friends. It's just. The list is extensive. So I'm going to actually be really, really cheeky and just say everybody to me has inspired me somehow and I'm grateful for that that is a perfect answer.
Speaker 1:That's lovely being able to inspire future generations and other people who can move into a space where they didn't know that they could belong. I know that's something that's really important to you, and you've got a few different initiatives that you work on. But let's start with storytelling, because I love this. I am obviously Irish. We are storytellers. We love we call it telling yarns. I love that Tell yarns. My dad is the best it telling yarns. I love that Tell yarns. My dad is the best at telling yarns. There's a night here in London and it's all about storytelling and you go and you just watch people tell stories and it's sell out every time. But storytelling listening to other people and sharing your own can be so empowering and I know this is something that you are really passionate about. So can you tell me more about your storytelling and turning up your volume?
Speaker 2:No problem. So it was born in the first year of lockdown, funnily enough, you see, this whole thing of me not having a lot to do, it comes. But it was also an observation that I'd seen in my environment, in one of my communities, where I just felt there was a little bit of a gap, there was a little bit of a mismatch and I was thinking, okay, these two areas storytelling and the people I was around it's not mixing Something's not mixing the oil and the water. So I developed a course. I didn't know I could do a course, so you know, again, we just have a go. I was teaching it to some of the high performance athletes at uni and it went down really well. I kind of knew it would, but the impact that I saw brought me to tears.
Speaker 2:So it's without giving too much away. It's a blend of, I guess, personal development, a bit of personal awareness, as well as being able to identify what your story is. And it isn't just about, you know. I don't know. I came out of the womb and I was kicking a football and that's what you're developing Perfectly good story. Might be a few more characters in there, but you know this is what we do.
Speaker 2:But it could be that you want to literally turn up your volume in whatever area you work in or an area that you share. You want to feel more authentic when you speak and that, to me, is storytelling. It doesn't have to be a huge story, it could be I went across the road and I bought a sandwich, and you want to feel more authentic and be able to hold a crowd when you're telling them that you went across the road and you bought the sandwich and you press the button that the traffic lights and so on, and you build and you build. But I want you to feel comfortable speaking as you are. I don't want you to feel you need to sound like anybody else. That dilutes you. We don't want to do that. That's not sexy. So that's what I do, that's what I take bookings and it's bespoke, so it's in whatever format is needed, whether it's one-to-one, whether it's one-day workshops, half a day, whether it's a series of sessions, it's a series of sessions it builds around what the individual or individuals need, and I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it to be able to empower people and to see it. Have you seen any particular cases where somebody has really owned their story and come into their own?
Speaker 2:oh, yes, I have, and I'm trying to do this with it by keeping people anonymous, but there was a person I would say it was a young man.
Speaker 2:A young man who'd been already identified as a future leader in an area that he was very interested in but and funnily enough, already had a platform where he did some speaking and interviewing, but joined to see what else could learn and, as a result of doing this and if you ever hear this, please tell me if I've got it wrong but ended up doing a public speaking gig that they had previously turned down because they realized, actually, what I have to say and how I say it, and what I'm going to say, as I am, is exactly what fits into that space, not the other way around of how do I mold myself to fit into that space, and that was phenomenal.
Speaker 2:That was phenomenal, let alone as I've done it within groups, and hearing the stories that get shared and then seeing people see people respond to what they didn't really think was that interesting or didn't really see the, the depth or the the breadth of what they were saying, the impact, and you just kind of, as the facilitator, sit back and, like I tried to tell you. I tried to tell you but go on, go with it, do it. That is wonderful. Again, it's that thing of making yourself redundant. It's like let me give you some tools for your toolbox, and every single time I've had people just their mindset about themselves, who they are, their experiences. More importantly, their authenticity changes every time. I love it.
Speaker 1:Love it. Oh, you said something earlier, before we were recording in relation to this, because we're having a little bit of chat and you said your differences are your superpower and I was like that's the best quote and I was like that's the best quote, and I love that because that's what that's all about is using your own experiences to tell your unique story authentically.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. I mean, if we were all going to be the same, it'd be a really boring world. So, yes, again, something to do with representation as well. If we're only used to seeing a certain type or things done in a certain way, disruption, for you to go and do it, it's different. It's a massive mountain to climb. No, darling. No, please, go and do you, because there's another person who may look, sound experience and feel different to you, but because you're the difference, it inspires them and that's where you pass the baton. That's how I see it. But yeah, our superpowers are our differences. It's like embrace them. Embrace them even more, and we're in a world where we've got platforms where differences can be seen and experienced literally just by opening your phone. So feed into it. Keep those differences Amazing.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Something I'd love to come back to is it's a big deal to represent team GB Paralympics.
Speaker 2:GB oh, paralympics, sorry yeah, so this, but no, this is a common misconception. So team GB is the Olympics and the Olympians. So the ring, the five rings, Paralympics GB as it five rings. Paralympics GB, as it says, is the Paralympics. We are not an offshoot, we are. It's almost like Nike added us. You know you both make the same thing technically. Don't come for me marketing people, but two different brands I guess is the, you know a generic way to describe it but also two different identities, and both areas have had two different paths of how they were born thank you so much for letting me know.
Speaker 1:I actually don't know that much. I am not an athlete and I don't actually know that much about sports and how it all breaks down, so it's really amazing to hear so you say a very good point that it's two very different pathways. Are there any changes that you would like to see in the world of para sport or in society that would make sport more inclusive for athletes with disabilities? Oh how?
Speaker 2:much time do we have? Okay, if I am being positively constructive with my answer, with this, one thing we've commented on it a couple of times today is representation. If people don't see, they don't know and that isn't just you know future athletes or future referees or future coaches or anyone like that Put them on the television, put them on there. Don't just put it on there when the Paralympics are on. That's every four years. People's attention span nowadays is not four years. Parasport is big. It doesn't get the exposure it and the athletes and the staff and everybody involved should get, and it's a travesty. Put them on television, put them on the radio, put them on billboards. Use them for marketing. We are fabulous, sexy creatures. We can sell your stuff. I won't say the word I was about to say, but a lot of times we're not given the opportunity because apparently you know whether people think we're not marketable, which is bull, or you know we're not going to. People don't want to see us. Everyone pretty much has somewhere somehow seen another person with an impairment, even if it's not a visible impairment. So there's not so few of us in society that we're a tiny bit. So use us, use them, show them that you see that they have marketable value. I'll get on my soapbox about this big time, but it's important also. You know, those young, young kids who have their role models and want role models, don't even know things exist, don't know avenues exist to them. What are they meant to do? Go around with blinkers on because you're not showing, you're not exposing people to para sport. So, media people, if you are listening, brave up yourself. Not that you should need to be brave, go and find some para athletes. Go and get some different perspectives. Go and get some different imagery. For goodness sake, get some different imagery. That is huge. Because now I don't know the numbers, but I believe for the Rio Paralympic Games they got higher worldwide TV viewing figures than the Olympics, but yet you're not putting people on television if that doesn't prove it. And remember, the paralympics are broadcast and happen after the paralympic game. So you've got the high, supposedly, of the olympics and it kind of dies down a bit and then you've got, you know, paralympics. That's how people see it. But no, thealympics are getting so much more interest. People say all the time oh, I don't always watch the Olympics, but I've started watching the Paralympics. That's interesting, isn't it? Yes, it is because we are extremely amazing athletes, no different than the Olympics. So make that happen. Yeah, and it's doable because the platforms are there. So that's an important thing. But then you've got things around. You know how.
Speaker 2:When money comes down from the upper echelons of government into sport, how is it disseminated? Put more funding into para-sport. Being a para-athlete costs money, whether that's down to equipment, whether that's down to adapting your clothing, because a lot of clothing doesn't necessarily suit para-athletes. Who wants to constantly have to go and get leery leggings, like I used to wear, constantly have to get them taken up? That costs money. It's the littlest of things, but it all adds up. Being an athlete in general is expensive. So if you've got the additional costs of living in this life in your body, as a person with know local clubs, how do you tap into making yourself inclusive? Again, the platforms are there, the infrastructure is there to make sport more available, so maybe they need to look at that too.
Speaker 1:That's a great answer. I hope that the work that you are doing is going to let other people see and hear about this, because those are things that people probably haven't considered. And the Paralympics are amazing. The Olympics are amazing because they're elite athletes. The Paralympics are amazing because they're elite athletes and they have a very unique experience. Yeah, it's really inspiring.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but a lot of those experiences don't get out, they don't get seen, they don't get heard about, even though the athletes are shouting at the top of their voices. So we, that's where you need allies who can amplify, turn up the volume on those voices and push those stories. Don't just expect it to just kind of drip feed out. Push it. You've got the capacity to, so push it. Use your resources and push. They deserve it. Athletes work their backsides off. They deserve that.
Speaker 1:Is there anything that you wish you'd known before becoming an athlete? Ooh, maybe, when you first started out as an athlete. Is there anything you would tell yourself if you could go back and speak to you then? Oh, that's a bloody good question. I can phrase it slightly differently. So if you could give advice to somebody now who is starting out in sports with a disability, what advice would you give them?
Speaker 2:I would say, be open to the experience, and that might just seem like a really general, broad thing to say, but you're going to encounter things, including yourself, that you didn't know. It might not be on the plan, but I would also, again going back to storytelling, shout as loud as you can. No storytelling. Shout as loud as you can. Speak to local businesses, the local fruit and veg. Look at the things that you need and try and figure out someone willing to help you with that. I would say that. And from early on, just know whatever you're doing is so different to anybody else. Even if you're in a training group of 47. Your experience is different, it's unique and it's important. So I would say shout, shout more. Let people know what you're doing, as long as it's safe to do that. Um, I would definitely say that. And you know and also document what you're doing. I know nowadays everyone has their phones and their. You know videoing and this, and I definitely didn't like my early years. I think unless there's anything on my coach's phone, I probably don't have much of anything. Document it, because again you will get to maybe part way or the end of your career. That in itself is. It's amazing. That's a thing to share. That's a thing you can monetize in all honesty.
Speaker 2:But collect your experience, get a box, stick your newspaper articles, contact them, let people know that you're an interesting as hell person and they should be interested in you. So shout, make your connections. Grow, team, whoever you are, grow that. Let people do some of the work for you. You're going to be physically and mentally and emotionally spending what you've got. Let other people spend something for you and let them feed in. I think that's important because it's hard work being an athlete. It's very hard work being a para athlete. The equipment can cost I mean racing wheelchairs thousands and that's a basic. Just that's just getting you in to try and do something. A throwing frame you could be looking at upwards of a grand and if you've got people who income may not be massively high based on what their life experience is, where are you meant to get that? That's a huge barrier. So again, it's like shout, let people know what you're doing, let people know what you need, but, more importantly, be ridiculously kind to yourself. Be really, really kind, oh, vanessa.
Speaker 1:So lovely, apart from the equipment, everything that you've said. This podcast is mostly speaking with creatives, and everything that you said applies as well. All of that other advice shouting, telling people your story, letting them know that you have something unique to say yes, I can really see that that would be helpful advice for anyone who is a creative, who's listening to this.
Speaker 2:I know some I have some of my closest friends are creatives, and I see the contrast and where it overlaps and it's hard. It's hard sometimes, again, believing in yourself when you're getting a thousand no's, when people are like, no, that's not my thing, no, I'm not interested, and you're like, well, I'm interested in it. That's what makes it important. Again, same with being an athlete. Or if you're working in corporate. Again, funny enough, corporate and sport overlap quite a lot within high performance, especially the similar type of growth mindset. Within high performance, especially the similar type of growth mindset, self-belief, again, it doesn't have to be the loudest, I say sometimes you can make the most impact by being as quiet as a mouse. It's about being strategic with what you say and how you say it and the spaces that you say it in. But again, when you've got people who will speak your name in spaces that you're not in, you can do some fun stuff. But it is important, important.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more. I totally agree. The other thing that you do that I'd love to touch on, but your professional development coaching, that's something else that you do. Can you tell us a little bit about that, please? I can that's funny.
Speaker 2:Funny enough, it came out sport. So within sport, executive coaching I guess falls under a term called performance lifestyle, and I was a performance lifestyle practitioner, again picked up by a lovely Irish lady called Elizabeth at uni who was my performance lifestyle practitioner and identified like Ness. This is what you actually do, naturally you coach. Would you like to be? Would you be interested in in kind of learning a bit more and becoming this? And it was. It was eye-opening for myself also to be even given a title to something that makes me me.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that I naturally coach people, but my old coach, alison, had a phrase of she likes to you know, where possible, make herself redundant, and that's what, as a coach, you do. It's not about kind of carrying people for months and years, it's about what? How do I support you in identifying what you need right now to unstick, to make a change, to move, continue. How do I do that? And once we've done that, once I've, you know, empowered you with those tools and you've had some self-realisation, go with love. I don't want to see you again unless there's a new thing to tackle. But we shouldn't still be tackling the same, same, same same, and I absolutely love that. I love seeing people learn about themselves. If you're in a team environment and I'm going to say sport and corporate, again learning about those differences but learning about the similarities and seeing connections and community being built, oh my goodness, it does something. It really does. But again, I love that type of of work. Come and find me if you need it.
Speaker 1:I just love it so can you please tell us where people can go to find you on socials, if you have a website?
Speaker 2:so the website is under construction at the moment, so it's partially done, so it's there, but I would say, yeah, give me a little bit longer. If you're on socials, then it would be at freshness uk. You can find me on on the clock app, as they like to describe it, and what's the other one? What's the ig? What? There's another term for calling it something, matter, no, I feel. I feel like it's like the picture app or something. There's another another term, but yeah, instagram and tiktok, essentially, um, come find me there, drop me a message and let's have a conversation. I always say everything I do is bespoke. So if you've heard me say something today and you're like, kind of, but maybe that's not quite me, then have the conversation, because there's obviously something in there that potentially could just be turned a little bit and it could work for you. Let me help you help you Beautiful.
Speaker 1:I really hope that everybody does go and find you. Go and show Vanessa some love, please. It is so lovely to be in your company and you always have the biggest smile Every time I see you. You've just got this beautiful smile and you just radiate joy and happiness. I feel so lucky to have had the chance to have a sit down with you and to ask you all these questions. Once again, thank you so much for your time. Like I said, it's just a pleasure to be in your company and to see this joy that you fill rooms with when you're in them. It's just lovely and I've really enjoyed this chat. Thank you so much. It was really lovely. My absolute pleasure. There you have it.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of this Is Disruption. If you've enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to follow the podcast and never miss an episode. You can find us on all major podcast platforms Apple Podcasts, spotify, etc. Also on YouTube. Stay connected with us on social media. You can find the podcast at this Is Disruption pod on Instagram and TikTok, and you will find updates, and at thisisdisruptionpod on Instagram and TikTok, and you will find updates and snippets of upcoming shows. Until next time, keep challenging the status quo, embracing your creative spirit, and be brave. Go and create. Thank you and see you in the next episode.