This is Disruption
This is Disruption podcast explores the pursuit of creativity and shares the stories of the fearless creators in street art, graffiti, music, photography and beyond, who boldly challenge the status quo, break barriers for others and share their work unapologetically. Each episode is a deep dive interview exploring the lives of artistic risk takers, exploring their motivations, their inspirations, and their take on the power of art, in whatever form they make it in.
The podcast is hosted by Irish street artist and DJ, Did by Rua, based in London.
This is Disruption
Aoife Dunne: Breaking Barriers - Creativity Beyond Privilege
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I had the honour of sitting down with the amazing Aoife Dunne, a force of creative energy and someone I greatly respect. Aoife has an inspiring story of initially encountering barriers, experiencing profound loss, and ultimately embracing her artistic rebirth.
Growing up in beautiful Galway (where we both agree the wild Atlantic way shapes not just the landscape but also the people), Aoife dreamt of acting since childhood. In what was a beautifully candid conversation, we unpack the journey her life has taken, how at one time she gave up on her dreams and how grief became her greatest teacher. "Death has taught me so much about laughter and about the necessity of sadness," she reflects. This wisdom is evident in her one-woman show "Good Grief," where audiences have found themselves both laughing and crying. It is truly not to be missed.
What makes Aoife's story particularly powerful is her advocacy for creatives from disadvantaged socioeconomic groups, and the powerful stories born from diverse experiences that risk being lost as the creative industries become increasingly accessible only to the privileged. The message to fellow underdogs is clear: If you don't belong in existing rooms, we're building new ones and you're all invited - I couldn't love this more.
Join us for this profound exploration of creativity, resilience, and finding your authentic voice against all odds. x
Follow Aoife on Instagram at: @aoife_is_never_dunne and catch her show as it tours Ireland, including the Ambassador Theatre in Dublin this September.
All Aoife's links can be found at the linktree right here x
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Hello there. You are very welcome to. This is Disruption podcast with me, your host Rua. This podcast brings you in-depth interviews with the fearless creatives in street art, graffiti, music, photography and beyond, who boldly challenge the status quo, break barriers for others and share their work unapologetically. Each episode is a deep dive into the lives of artistic risk takers, exploring their motivations, their inspirations and their reasons for their willingness to disrupt societal norms. Some of these stories involve revolutionizing their industries, while others are pushing the boundaries of legality with their art.
Speaker 2:Coming up on today's episode and I was like okay, this is more of a fire in my belly to keep going, because I want to write my show and I want to do well and I want it to go on tour and I want to be a story for people like me and to be like we can do this too. I have loads of stories because my life hasn't been that easy and I think people who maybe aren't from such privileged backgrounds, who've had to struggle I mean struggle creates great art, like when you touch close to the raw experience of being alive I think that can make you weep. Of course it's sad, but being sad is also a beautiful thing as well. That's what death has taught me. Death has taught me so much about laughter and about the necessity of sadness as well.
Speaker 1:I had the honor of speaking with the amazing Aoife Dunn. Aoife is a comedian, a poet, a storyteller, educator, an activist, and she shares in a refreshingly relatable and honest way. She is the embodiment of empathy and I have so much respect for her. This is a really special episode. As always, these episodes are best enjoyed if you listen while you create something. This is Disruption. Hello from beautiful, sunny Brighton, where I am joined by the one and only Aoife Dunn. Aoife is a multi-hyphenate. She does so many different things. She has many skills, many talents. She is currently at the Brighton Fringe, which is where we both are Delighted to be here, with her one-woman show, good Grief, which I have been to see this week and it was absolutely fantastic. I can't wait to talk about it, can't wait to get into your head, aoife, here, a little bit more, but in your own words. Can you please tell people a little bit about who you are and what do you do?
Speaker 2:Firstly, I hate intros about myself because it makes me so uncomfortable. Then you know you're Irish. When you're like squirming on the seat as someone's like reading your CV, you know when you get introduced on stage like a book or a promoter, will also come down like how do you want me to introduce you? Like what will I say? And I, like a booker or a promoter, will also come down like how do you want me to introduce you? Like what will I say? And I'm like just tell them I'm shy, just say she's awful and that will be better than promoting me. So I don't know what I am.
Speaker 2:I met another performer the other day and he was like someone asked him like what are you? And he looked at me and he's like what do we say? I was like I don't know, because, like I get called a comedian but I don know, I don't. I don't think I am a comedian. Comedian, I like to do poetry as well and storytelling, and I'm also a bit of an activist, I suppose, as well, and I make content online. So that doesn't really roll off the tongue, does it.
Speaker 1:That was perfect. I summed it up by multi hyphenate.
Speaker 2:I thought that was way better.
Speaker 1:Because you do so many different things and you have so many different interests in lots of areas, all of them very entertaining in one way or another. Yeah, you do. You've got many hats, many strings to your bow, so it's hard to know to say are you a poet? Are you a comedian? I love your spoken word. Yeah, so you have many different things that you do. You're also Irish. Yes, yeah, if people can't tell, yeah from my name.
Speaker 1:I get lots of comments about my accent. Whenever I do these podcasts, I get lots of comments about my accent and my voice, and I did one with my friend Tiny Tiny Hands, big Heart. I'll show you her Instagram and the comments from that one were like oh, those two Irish accents were so lovely, so it'll be the same, I'm sure so whereabouts in Ireland are you from.
Speaker 2:I'm from Galway, but my mum was from Kilkenny and my dad's from Dublin, so we were still always called Blowins. Because you know the way, if you're not from the area, it doesn't matter, like, even though I was born in Galway, because my parents weren't from there and my parents' parents we were still always considered like blow-ins. So I guess when people meet me, they don't always automatically assume I'm from Galway.
Speaker 1:I don't have a strong. I don't think I have a strong accent. Really, do you think Galway is just this beautiful kind of it's Irish? Yeah, but it's not like if you hear a Cork person or you hear a Donegal person, you're like, okay, you're so obviously yeah or a Dub, or whatever yeah or Dublin, but Galway is just beautifully.
Speaker 2:Irish. Yeah, it's true, it's quite flat. You wouldn't be able to tell, I think most people if they're from the west coast, I think the west coast in general, like Mayo Clare, but I loved it. I always. I write a lot about the Atlantic and I think, growing up like I've moved in with my boyfriend now in Kilkenny and it's landlocked and he always laughs that I don't know any of the counties in the middle of Ireland because I'm like, what county is this?
Speaker 2:and he's like, how don't you know where Leish is? Or Longford? I'm like I know every county that borders the water, the sea, and then everyone else in the middle. I just go, why would you live there? Because living by the sea is the greatest privilege, and not even like the Dublin's, like the what is that sea? The North Sea or the Irish Sea? Like living on the Atlantic coast, like I don't know.
Speaker 2:There's something about like walking to the edge of the world and hearing the roar of the Atlantic and I think it. You know, I, sometimes I, when I was a kid, like we used to go, cause we're very close to the Cliffs of Moher, and like you'd stand there on the edge of these cliffs and you'd feel the wind moving you and you'd hear this drum of the ocean and you'd watch how it like moves all the cliffs away and it literally like erodes the, the land and it takes a bit of the land with you and I'm like it has to change the people too. There's something about living close to that energy and I met a girl the other day at my show and she works in offshore wind farms and uh, natural renewable energy and she said, like, wave energy is some of the most powerful energy on planet earth, yeah, and so we should have more you know, renewable resources along there. But she actually confirmed she's like it is. It is phenomenal, the energy.
Speaker 2:I was like I feel that I. That's why I feel like when I meet people who grew up along the Atlantic, I don't know there's an energy in them. Yeah, the wild Atlantic way, yeah, it's the most beautiful place on planet earth. I always tell people I was like you got to like get a car and drive from Donegal to Kerry.
Speaker 1:It's unbelievable it truly is. It's so gorgeous but you're so right, it's this incredible energy. Yeah, where I'm from is right on the beside the beach as well.
Speaker 1:Beaches and mountains Donegal is amazing it's amazing and there's just oh, there's nowhere in the world like it where the breeze comes in. And I took my fiance there. We were standing right on the edge on this peninsula, in Donegal, and I was like the next bit of land is Iceland, the next bit of land that way is Canada, the next bit of land that way is the US. We're on the edge of Europe and it's just incredible oh, I love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too, and.
Speaker 1:I don't think I ever.
Speaker 2:You know you take your home for granted or you take kind of nature for granted when you're a kid, but I don't think I ever did Like we were, my family, were so good, like my mom and dad. On Sundays we always went up the burn or we go. We call them the Sunday rambles. So we always like I. Yeah, it was inbuilt in us from such a young age to appreciate nature and the wildness. And, yeah, and even now as an adult, I'm so outwardly joyful for all of this. Compared to like I mean like my boyfriend now, he would be very quiet. Even when you see something so breathtaking, you know, like the sea, I'm always like moved by it, even though if you could see it every day, and I'm still like, wow, look at that. And he even said, since he started dating me, he's like I should be more outwardly expressive, shouldn't I? When I see something beautiful, I'm like, yeah, why hold it in?
Speaker 1:be like, oh my god, look at that sunset every single day yeah, well, we are both very lucky to be born on the wild Atlantic way very lucky. But you also, as I did, and we never crossed paths there, but you also lived in Amsterdam. Yes, that's pretty cool. Amsterdam's an amazing city. It is amazing, and how did you enjoy it? What were you doing there? So I was doing a storytelling course there in the Mezrap.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I used to go there all the time. Yes, it's amazing, eva, that's crazy. So they do these, they're not. They do them once every two years. They're not doing it this year, but they do these professional storytelling courses for six months, oh my God, by Iranian refugees, basically, who had come to Amsterdam. And when they first, the story is very sweet. When they first set up the school, because storytelling is such a wonderful tradition in Persian culture as it is in Ireland, and they went and they realized there was no storytelling whatsoever amongst the Dutch, no shit. And then they set up this, they found this room and they put Persian rugs down and then the dad made soup, persian soup, and then three people came and they told their stories of their ancient land and they kept telling their stories. And 20 years later, uh, they have. I think that even last week they set up a second venue and you know, 300 people come on a friday night now. But so sweet because his dad still comes in and makes the soup. Yeah, he comes in in the morning and he still. He's still the same tradition that they started with.
Speaker 2:How I met the mezrab, this is how I actually got into. I suppose comedy and storytelling is actually through the mezrab. So I really believe in things like I'm not super woo woo and you know spiritual and stuff. But I think I believe in a sort of an energy exchange in the universe of some degree. And I that it was like two years ago now and I did a bit storytelling, like a storytelling kind of competition in Dublin and I got through to the finals and I went to the Abbey Theatre and I got on stage and I choked and it was my first time being on stage since I was 19 and I was. I was so nervous. There was all these spotlights on me and I it's so unlike me, but I just couldn't and I I fumbled over my words and I got down off stage and I was mortified. It was like my first you know back time back onto the stage.
Speaker 2:I said to John I'm never doing this again and he's like are you sure? Because that was just once off. So I said, look, I have two choices. I'll either never do it again, or I'm never doing this again. And he's like are you sure? Because that was just once off. So I said, look, I have two choices. I'll either never do it again or I'm going to double down and basically figure out how to get better at this.
Speaker 2:So I Googled that day storytelling courses in Dublin which there was one of the Mesrab guys randomly was in Ireland doing a weekend course. I had missed a day already and I was like, fuck it, I'll fire across an email. I said, hey, I've already missed a day, can I join? And he said, yeah, no problem, come on in. And I fell in love and I was like, okay, where is he from the Mesrab? I flew to Amsterdam a month later to do a short course with them, saw the venue and I was like and he said, then they do professional story. And I was like, and he said, then they do professional story. I was like, okay, I'm going next year. And that's what kind of propelled me back onto the stage, back to stories, and through that there I kind of found my way back. So I think like I have this weird affinity with the mezrab now and what it's helped me, the confidence it's given me.
Speaker 1:I'm mind blown because I love the mezrab. It was my favorite thing to do in Amsterdam. For anybody who doesn't know, as it's exactly as Aoife described it, you go in, anybody can tell a story, you can. You just stand on a stage and anybody can tell their story, and there's stories that I heard in that room that I still think about oh, same, same.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it reaffirms your like faith in humanity and and also it breaks down any sort of prejudices you might have towards people because certain people get up. And it's amazing how we of prejudices you might have towards people because certain people get up, and it's amazing how we run that script. You know straight away when we meet people, because when people say I'm not judgmental, I always say bullshit, everybody's judgmental. It's just part of being human. In the first few seconds you meet someone, you're running it through a filter which has judgment attached to it, because you want to see if they're safe or secure, and that's just part of it.
Speaker 2:So you, this person, might get up and she might start talking about being, you know, rich and traveling.
Speaker 2:You're like, oh, you know, you hear yourself roll your eyes, but then all of a sudden she'll tell something about you know, maybe her mom died and how she had to, like you know, learn to get over the grief or something.
Speaker 2:And then you find yourself softening, even towards someone that maybe is from a completely different socio-economic background to you, or someone of a different generation, and I don't know. I find like if you go to these kind of storytelling nights, it would be very hard for you to be a bigot, like I really do it. It like pierces the soul of you, like the colorfulness through which people see the world as well, because you're we're so focused on how we see the world and our own stories and then when you hear other people's experiences and they're not even big things it can be something so small, like I heard a girl tell a story about her obsession with salt. It was beautiful and the way she's from a little girl to growing up and yeah, I don't know it reaffirms my faith in humanity. Nights like that oh, I love and you don't pay that's another beautiful thing.
Speaker 1:Exactly it's free. It's free and then you can donate. At the end they pass around a jar or a little bucket or whatever. It's just the best activity. So if anybody is in Amsterdam, please go and support the Mezrab and have some lovely soup and give them loads of money because they deserve it.
Speaker 2:They deserve it. No, they're amazing people yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, that's amazing. I honestly didn't know that, yeah, so I'm delighted to hear that, because it's a really special place for me too. When I first got sober, I got sober in Amsterdam and I had to be like what can I do? That doesn't involve alcohol, and that was one of the things I loved to do because it kept me entertained. I felt this connection with every single person that told a story. Like I said, I still think about some of them, but it was a free sober activity kept me out of trouble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's just a great way to meet new people. Yeah, I met some lovely people there as well, because they encourage you to talk on the breaks as well, to talk to other people in the audience, so it's a really nice way to sort of meet people as well, like away from drink yeah don't you think Amsterdam's a good city in general?
Speaker 2:I thought it was like as much as people go there on like hen parties and stags. It's not like a heavy drinking like the Dutch for me. Well, the Dutch I knew didn't drink that much. They're very much into their hobbies there, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a hobby city. This is what I always say about Amsterdam. You can have whatever life you want there, and I did True, true, true, I had both lives. You can have this crazy party life, and it's all available for you. Or you can have the brunch and bicycle life, yes, swimming in the river, and there's. Whatever life you want in Amsterdam, it's available. It is yeah, and they are just lovely. I think so too. Oh God, I'm going there in two weeks for a week, and I still go back and see all my friends.
Speaker 2:Same. I'm going back in July, I'm going back in September. Like, yeah, I've made friends for life there, so I'll be going back all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really special, so they love that to the stage. You had acting dreams when you were younger. Can you tell me about that?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I, I always tell the someone was like, oh, you're so lucky because you have a genesis story of how you got into performing, because not everybody has one. But I can remember. My memory of my childhood is so scatty but I remember this exact scene so well and I was. We were preparing for our communion, so I must have been seven, and I even remember the color of the room.
Speaker 2:It was in St Joseph's primary school in Kimbara. The walls were purple and I remember I was, uh, gary Kavner, one of the boys in the class he had. He was trying to run, he was running around the class and he knocked into the corner of a table and he hurt like it knocked into his balls and he was, he bent over, screaming with the pain. But the whole class were laughing at the yelps that he was making and he, I remember I remember seeing the color red on his cheeks and me looking over, feeling so bad for him, thinking this isn't nice because I don't. I don't think, you know, anyone should ever laugh at somebody, um, unless you're making jokes.
Speaker 2:So I was like, oh, I have to do something. And I was always like, because I'm the middle child, so obviously to get attention, like my older sister is special needs and my younger brother was born with cancer, and then there's the baby. So I was always the like, the child that just sort of had to just get on with things and just like you know, just just even just be normal, please, and don't cause me any trouble. And I was, I was, I was a really good kid, but I also needed to get attention, and how I did that was like putting on silly voices or, like you know, dancing in the living room. So I had all these. I was always doing party pieces.
Speaker 2:So I did one there and I think I did an impression of the teacher Because she gave out to Gary, and so I went oh, don't do that, or something, because I did such a good impression of her. Imagine like a little seven-year-old doing an impression of a teacher. It must have been really funny because all the kids turned around and they were laughing at me. So I kept doing it and the teacher was shouting at me obviously to tell me to stop, like I'm not allowed to take the piss out of her. But I could see Gary, like looking beyond the group of students now laughing at me with relief, and I felt this thing in my body and I felt I would say this like fireflies shooting up and down my spine, and some kind of beast was awakened that day because I was put into every pantomime group and even the local drama classes on a Saturday.
Speaker 2:There were these expensive classes in Gulley City. They're still there, trading faces because my friend's daughter is going to them now. It's like so full circle and me and my friend would drive in, my mom would drive us in every Saturday morning and Nicola Coughlin was there with us as well in those drama classes. So all four of us. After dramas class on Saturday, we would just practice our Oscar speeches together and it's all I like, it's all I think.
Speaker 2:It's all I ever talked about, it's all I ever wanted to be, even in secondary school, like I was really good at school, like I got the highest marks in the school for my leaving certain stuff. And they all the teachers were like, please, do something else with your life. I was like I don't want to do anything else. So I did arts in university just with the hopes of like, okay, I'll get a degree. Because my mom begged me. She was like, please, just get a degree and then you can go do acting. But I stopped acting when I was 19. So, before you know, my mom passed away and stuff. I stopped acting because I went to London with our local like the youth theater, the Galway Youth Theater, and we had won a youth theater competition with our show that we had written and performed ourselves. So we got to go to London to perform it at the National Theatre. So it was this amazing thing at like you know, 19 to have this show and I loved it. It was incredible.
Speaker 2:And in the changing rooms I met these girls who were also performing and they kept asking me where did I study and do I study? Did I study at RADA or Lambda Is that the other one? And I was like, oh, just Galway Youth Theatre. They're like, where's that? And then they asked me what university I was studying at and I started to hear all their accents and see the way they were dressed and I felt so insecure Because when you grow up in Galway, there's no such thing as class, there's no such thing as class, there's no class.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that. You know, being from a single parent family, and we were on welfare support, even though my mom worked. We still needed all the welfare. We got free books, free uniforms, but I still never felt like I was different. And for the first time in my entire life, at 19 in London, surrounded by all these very wealthy girls and boys, I was like I don't belong here. And I remember even my clothes. Looking down at my clothes, looking at my shoes, I was like, oh, this world is not for me. And I came home and I said to mom I get emotional thinking about this because I was like, oh my God, I can't believe I bullied myself out of it. I was like I'm never again, I don't. I've actually told that story loads and I think I never get emotional. But I'm getting emotional now because I'm I'm in a deeply um what's the word? Like healing uh space for my old self, like looking back on myself with like deep uh love and compassion compassion, mad compassion yeah, because before you'd be embarrassed about your younger self.
Speaker 2:But now I think back to her at 19, being like I just want to give her a hug, yeah. But yeah, I was like bullied out by, I suppose, my own perception of privilege and that I didn't belong there and I I thought acting's acting's for people who have money or parents that can support them. And I was. I was like this isn't for me.
Speaker 1:I'm so sorry that that was your dreams. Yet now you said you're not spiritual or woo. I am.
Speaker 2:I mean, I am a little bit, I tone it down for some people.
Speaker 1:I am and I think obviously such a shame that you weren't able to throw yourself into it and pursue it. But I do think things sometimes we have to go on journeys, yeah, that we don't expect to end up where you ultimately want to be and maybe that just wasn't the right space for you at that time and you're ultimately going now, through all of the experiences you've had, into what you're actually meant to be. But I am sorry and the statistics I don't know off the top of my head. Sorry, but Scroobius Pip, I think recently, was talking about it, scroobius.
Speaker 2:Pip, yeah God. I used to listen to him in university the whole time.
Speaker 1:Me too. I met him in Galway Stop. Yeah, he doesn't know who I am, it was just at one of his gigs, but I love him. Yeah, he was trying to make a film recently and it was crowdfunded and they didn't get to do it and he purposefully had it was a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of working class people in both music, film, art, everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, even in the media, in journalism yeah, everything it's.
Speaker 1:It's this barrier that people feel they don't deserve it, they don't belong and they're looked down on. And it's real, it's. It's real, it really is, and it's even in art as well. A lot of people are like you know, you might have gone to some art school, and that's why I love street art and graffiti, because literally all you need is a pen, yeah, and a can, and you can just go and do it. It's so accessible, anybody can do it. You don't need a degree, you don't need anything, and that's why it's so beautiful, and I hope now that that was some time ago. Yeah, I hope now that people can see you can make your own way in the world, yeah, like we don't need other people to give us permission. Yes, yeah, and I hope that that's what's coming well for me.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I would like to say, but I think that I think it's. I'll speak specifically about the art. I think it's getting worse. I think, if you think about the way you know the cost of living and everything is going up right, so like if even the cost of rent, like even for people from sort of middle class backgrounds, it's very difficult for them to make the choice to become an artist. So I think a lot of people who want to dedicate their life to art and I don't mean just as a hobby or a side hustle, I mean this is your life, your career, let's say you either have parents who work in it, so you know the concept of nepo babies, because, yeah, they have networks that they have. There's also the confidence you need as well.
Speaker 2:So a lot of people talk about access to the arts and you know you can say there's a lot of diversity programs still and maybe there's grants and bursaries and scholarships. Say there's a lot of diversity programs still and maybe there's grants and bursaries and scholarships. Sure, those need to be there, but those are getting cut year on year. I mean the arts is losing money year on year. It's always the first sector to be cut. So, okay, there might be sort of access programs still available. But, as we talked about there, what a lot of people don't consider, when you're when you're not maybe from an artistic background and you're not from a wealthy background and you're also you're not in a peer group that is also into the arts, it almost feels like um insane to think you could do it. And I think, like for me, what I battle daily is my confidence levels. I I'm doing this in spite of myself, because I don't think I still am that 19 year old girl and it's probably why I was emotional there because she still is inside me and begging me to stop. She still doesn't think we deserve to be here and that we're worthy when we step out onto these stages. I have to do a lot of work to make myself go forward and I think, like the part of me is doing it for the 19 year old girl in me. I'm 100% doing it for her now, but I also want to do it for other people and that's what my show like talks about. My show's a show for the underdogs, because I went to the Edinburgh Fringe last year and I just as a punter to see loads of shows and of course there's amazing art there, but I can hear in the accents and I can see these people and I know privilege now sniff it out and I'm like I'm not taking away from their artistry at all. And these are still amazing artists, but the majority of people I saw were privileged.
Speaker 2:And I was speaking to another friend about this. She goes no, no, this is what Edinburgh Fringe is becoming about now. If you want to make it at the Edinburgh Fringe, you need to to be repped, you need to have a big agent, you need to have a lot of money, you need to have network behind you. So, either through family or whoever, it's becoming near impossible to be an independent artist from maybe a lower socioeconomic background, to quote unquote make it. And I was like, oh, I thought the Edinburgh Fringe was supposed to be this all access, open space for anybody, but it's.
Speaker 2:It was, I think, but it's really changing and luckily. Even when I went to Edinburgh last year, I was incredibly intimidated. But it actually gave me more of a fire when I saw that like, oh, everyone here is privileged and not everyone, but a lot of people are and I was like, ok, this is more of a fire in my belly to keep going, because I want to write my show and I want to do well and I want it to go on tour and I want to be a story for people like me and to be like we can do this too. Like fuck the privilege.
Speaker 1:I love that. Something that I talk an awful lot about on this podcast is representation and how important representation is. And if you can't see that it can be done by somebody who looks like you, sounds like you, comes from a similar background like you, you may not know that it's possible, but if you see somebody doing it breaking barriers, leading the way it's literally in the intro to this podcast breaking barriers for others yeah, that's what we need. We need more people doing that.
Speaker 1:So you're being really brave and showing other people who might not have the confidence and walk into those rooms like I don't belong in this room. Yeah, you can own the room, and if you don't belong in that room, open a door to a new room. Yes, invite everybody else in and have a new room.
Speaker 2:Oh my god. Yes, I say this all the time. And also when people get worried that, like you know, let's say you know, maybe I'm coming in and maybe they think, oh well, the IFA's there now, so there's no space for me. And it's like no, no, no, I'm opening more doors, we'll just build another room, you know, an extension down the back, a granny flat, like there's so many. That's just a scarcity mindset again as well, built into people who are from less privileged backgrounds. We think like, oh, no, that's not for me, or that's there's not enough left for me, and it's like no, no, no, we create more space for people and the more people like us in the room, the more, like you said, the more I think, audience there'll be different audiences coming to as well, because there's also, like my show wrote.
Speaker 2:Someone was like how long have you been writing it? And I was like a few months Like. And even I met people last night and they were like, how long is your show? I was like it's an hour, but I wanted I would, I could do an hour and a half, like I have that much material. And they're like, oh, you must've been writing it for years I was like, well, no, but then I suppose, like, in a way, like I have loads of stories because my life hasn't been that easy and I think people who maybe aren't from such privileged backgrounds who've had to struggle I mean struggle creates great art.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know, without the struggle it's very difficult to create good stories. And you're also probably surrounded by people who have good stories and who have struggled and who have suffered, and I really think in the suffering and in the struggle that's where true, authentic art is born. And so I want more of those diverse voices in the world of art as well, in the world of journalism and writing and media. Like, unfortunately, we're at a precipice now, where there is, we're at risk of only hearing a singular voice across the channels, and it's, it's dangerous actually yeah, I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1:I totally agree. I had this conversation with a friend in the pub last night. This conversation is very similar and he was saying the same things as you and I was saying, yeah, but the hard times make great stories, yeah they really do?
Speaker 2:they say the worst thing to happen to a poet is they fell in love like you can't. Uh, no one.
Speaker 1:No one writes good stuff when they're happy so, yes, I totally agree with all of that. And if you get a seat at the table, pull up a chair for someone else. Let's get more voices in the room. They don't think they belong to be there yeah, and you get more audiences.
Speaker 2:I think the fear as well is that like, oh, those audiences now are going to her, so now I've no audience. It's like, no, we can encourage even not just diverse people into the arts to perform and create, but we can, like, encourage diverse audiences as well, because sometimes as well, the art, the arts, can become a bit also exclusive. It can be a bit too much, um, what do they say? Like highbrow, or for a certain type of people as well? Um, that's what I I think we're.
Speaker 2:There is a good movement now, I think, where more and more people are coming back into the arts, maybe on a more mainstream level, even with comedy. I've noticed, you know, people like Kyla Cobbler. There's people coming into the comedy, audience-wise, that maybe would never have come in before, because they're going for Kyla, not because they like comedy, but because they love her. Yeah, and I think it's brilliant. I'm not looking at her going. Oh my God, another female comedian who's doing better than me. Okay, I won't do anything. No, I'm like, brilliant. She's attracting more people into the sphere. That's more to go around for everybody else. She's creating a new path for other females. So, yeah, I don't think it's a moment to compare. I think it's an opportunity actually to expand, exactly.
Speaker 1:They're just leading the way, trailblazing.
Speaker 2:Trailblazing for a reason 100% so you decided at 19,.
Speaker 1:This isn't for me. What direction did you take then?
Speaker 2:I 19,. What did I take from there? So I was still in college doing Spanish and English literature. So I had no idea. I had no idea. I finished college in 2008 when the crash, financial crash hit and I remember we were graduating and the the dean was like he referenced the financial crash and like there's, there's one thing, you know, graduating in the financial crash, but there's one thing graduating with an arts degree which is worth nothing. He essentially said it. He stood on the podium and he was like some people might say that this is worth nothing, but I suppose it is. Uh. And we were like great, you've essentially told us it's worth nothing.
Speaker 2:I have a degree in English literature and Spanish literature. At the height of one of the worst financial crashes of all time. I'm like what am I going to do? So I went to Spain to I did my CELTA, my Teaching English Certificate to Adults. That was like a month-long course and it was my mom's partner at her newer partner at the time who suggested I do it. And so I moved to Spain to teach English in an academy there. And yeah, I did that for two years before and then I decided, okay, I'm going to go to South America. I had met a boy, an English guy, and he wanted to go, so I was like, okay, we'll go traveling South America, and that's what I did at 23.
Speaker 1:And then you had a phone call. Yes, that changed your life.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then, yeah, and then my mom passed away and I had to come back. So I think I was traveling two and a half months and then I had to come back and I suppose, yeah, take care of my younger brother who was still in school. He was finishing his leaving search at the time and our dad had been out of the picture since I was 15 and yeah, so it was up to me to sort of take care of the household then, and at 23, I became like, yeah, big sister, mother, uh, lunch, lunch maker yeah, it was crazy and that, and also dealing with my own grief, and also didn't know what I was supposed to be doing. Like traveling was just a way of, I suppose, running from what I was supposed to do with my life as well. Yeah, I'm back in my small town again.
Speaker 1:When you have these dreams you're gonna go traveling, you're gonna go see the world, and then you find yourself somewhere that you never planned to be and you were also dealing with grief. Yeah, I can't imagine it's like such a change. And the comedy show that you have well, I don't even know if I'd call it a comedy show. Yeah, but amazingly touchingly raw, beautiful, vulnerable and also funny show. Yeah, yeah, that you have now written multi-hyphenated good grief. It's based on this whole story journey yeah, the whole journey, the story and how you find yourself to where you are now. Yeah, I don't want to give anything away for that, because I really think people should go and see it. Like I said, I've been to see it the other night and it was brilliant and I was crying at the back and afterwards I was. I said to my fiance I've never wept at a comedy show before oh my god, so many people said this.
Speaker 2:When I did it in Whelans as well, like someone was saying, saying like I've never cried this much after a stand-up comedy show, I was like, well, it's not really stand-up, but even those old guys I was telling to you earlier, there was like two men from Belfast came last night and they came up. I don't, I was saying to you, I want to find out how people knew about the show, cause, like, what is it that? Like drew them in. But yeah, so they came and I was thinking they're just looking for the toilet or something. They're hardly coming to my show.
Speaker 2:And that staunch older Balfast man you know what I mean and they're like we're here for the comedy. I was like, um, are you sure I think you have a ticket? And they're like no. And then they're like a key 11 and John was like we charged them as like no, no, because in my head I was thinking they're gonna, they're gonna hate it, so I'm not gonna charge them because this is not their bag. And at the end, um, I stand at the door and like rob hugs off everybody. I was like, and then they came out and, uh, one of the guys, he was crying and he was wiping tears from his face and he's like in his like you know, late 60s or whatever, and he's like that was beautiful. Oh my god, I can't believe I made an old man from Belfast cry.
Speaker 1:I was like this is an achievement Breaking them all down, one by one Milestone reach Milestone yes, no, it was, though, it truly was, and, like I said, it's so good, genuinely, and you cover the whole story, so I actually don't want to really get into it. I genuinely think people should go and see this and see for themselves, but, man, I cried, and I wasn't the only one. There was loads of people crying. There was a dog sitting in front of me on a chair. Yeah, I love dogs yeah, me too, and I think the dog, crazy dog person.
Speaker 1:But there was this really cute. He was a service dog and I was crying and he was looking at me like do you need service? Do you need my help, are you okay? He was looking up at me. I was like oh, this is amazing. No, it was genuinely amazing and it goes through your whole story.
Speaker 2:But I think I need to clarify as well with the crying, because when people I post it a lot and then I'm always like but like, is it sad? I'm like it's not. It's not like sad because I was like I try to write it in a way that it's it's not like it's uplifting.
Speaker 2:I would say and and I think the tears is the beauty when you touch close to the raw experience of being alive, I think that can make you weep. Of course it's sad, but being sad is also a beautiful thing as well. And I think, if I wrote a show because when I do the comedy clubs, when I get invited to do the comedy clubs, you do 10 minutes 20- minutes.
Speaker 2:I'm not making people cry at those. Of course I'm booked and I'm paid money to make people laugh. Imagine if I was like my mom's dead. How do you feel about that, dublin? So I obviously have different materials.
Speaker 2:Some of the bits from the show that you would have seen I worked out at comedy clubs, like the more funny bits, but a lot of I actually have different material because I was like I, yeah, I have my, my comedy club material, but I only if I did a full hour of that of what I do in the comedy clubs, I wouldn't feel as like a performer, writer, satisfied, and it's no shade on people who do that, who do a full hour standup, because that's what they love to do and that brings them alive and that's amazing.
Speaker 2:But I realized when I started doing the comedy clubs and I was just doing comedy, I came home to my boyfriend. I was like I just feel a bit empty inside, like it's nice every now and then but like, if this is it, if I just make people laugh, I don't feel good Because my whole life story is yes, as you saw from the show, it's just punctuated with just sheer laughter and hilarity and absurdity, but the only reason those things are funny is because of the heartbreak, the contrast, the contrast, and and it's it's that, that's what death has taught me. Death has taught me so much about, about laughter and about the necessity of sadness as well. And if I didn't hold space for the two, and if I don't hold space for the two, I feel like a fraud. So to honor both of those things, I was like I'm gonna write a show that is both heartbreaking and hilarious, if I can.
Speaker 1:I don't know, still, if I've achieved it, you achieved it you did, I can say for sure, definitely achieved it, and that was beautiful, aoife, that was so lovely. It's also true and, yes, I would like to clarify I've talked a lot about the crying, but there was a lot of laughter. There was a lot of laughter. There was a lot of laughter too. It was really hilarious and, oh my God, there were things that were so relatable. There was one part, when you talk about what we can learn from grief and death. You talked about the amazing experience of an Irish wake and an Irish funeral In Donegal. We wake our dead in the house as well and it's just oh, oh god, it's laughter. And people come to your home and they tell stories and we get to hear all these amazing stories of how your loved one interacted with all these different people, yeah, and made them happy, and you just hear all these great stories about people you never knew.
Speaker 2:Yeah and they come alive in another way, like stories from my mum's past that I, like you said that would never have known from friends of hers that I would never have met. They all come together for a few days after they die and it's yeah, I think it's a beautiful tradition in Ireland that we I'm so glad we still have it, me too.
Speaker 2:And we used to tell people from England, you know, that we have the dead body in the house and they're horrified. They gosh, this is heathens. But I'm like it's beautiful to touch their hand and I think it's such a like. You know, I did plant medicine with the indigenous people in Brazil and they have such also a beautiful relation. A lot of indigenous cultures have a beautiful relationship with death and it's not something to be feared, it's something you have to bring into your life to understand your life better, and that's what I think I've done. The last 15 years is like now I now I see it for what it is and it's if you allow death into your life, you get closer to living.
Speaker 1:I think, wow, I totally agree. And something you said was that the only difference in an Irish funeral, an Irish wedding, is one less person and another one that I love that what they say back home is that a good wake one less person and another one that I love that what they say back home is that a good wake is better than a bad wedding oh, I love that feeling that you can have, that you can have that it's true, yeah, it's so true.
Speaker 1:I think it's just us in general in our culture, and it's just storytelling, laughter, joy. Yeah, even when it's a sad situation, there'll be someone like you, someone like hit off a table and you're like let's make something fun happen in this room now yeah.
Speaker 1:And there's, you know, a lot of darkness, a lot of tragedy, but if you can see the light, it's really special, yeah. So I would love to hear a little bit more just, but we're going to wrap up very soon. But you had this experience and you've now come back to what you're doing now. Can you tell us about the journey back to actually embracing what you're doing now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's so many reasons, Like in the show. I obviously pinpoint one particular part of the journey that helped me, but there's loads of sort of impetus, like it was the we talked about last night, the pandemic. Obviously a deeply tragic time for so many. But it was a necessary heartbreak for me because I lost my teaching job in the academy and I was cruising in that for, like you know, 12, 15 years and I was in a relationship with somebody who was in a band and a lot of our relationship was about me helping his band, you know, make it. They were always on the cusp of making it and whenever I met his family it was about making it. And then I was like, okay, I'm, I don't know, I just forgot that I also had dreams as well.
Speaker 2:And then the pandemic happened. He broke up with me a week later and moved back to London and our landlord was like, well, if he, if he, can't pay the rent properly between the three of you, you're gonna have to move out, and my the academy that I've been teaching it was like you were the last in, so we can't give you a job back, so we're just laying off people in the pandemic. So all of a sudden I have no job, no boyfriend, nowhere to live and I started making comedy content because I was like well, well, firstly I was like deeply heartbroken. I started therapy for the first time in my life. It was like in that space I, I think I finally had space to grieve as well. I realized I hadn't really been grieving. I had maybe, but I think I was always running from myself in and putting myself into other things, like other people, other relationships. My brother and I also kind of fell out, so I just had so much space, or emptiness, you could call it, and in that I yeah, therapy was one of the greatest things to happen to me ever and that has given me strength and confidence to figure out that what I want and to help me see that like yeah, that I get to go for what I want. I didn't even I didn't even dare speak those words for 12 years. Like she would ask me what do you want? And I remember even saying like yeah. I remember saying I don't, I don't even dare speak those words for 12 years. Like she would ask me what do you want? And I remember even saying like yeah. I remember saying I don't know and I felt deep shame over that and she goes well, let's figure it out. And I did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I started making comedy content videos then because I knew my students were online and they were also sad and depressed because it was a pandemic and then it was just for my students, but then it was. I started making them funny and then Irish people started finding my videos because I was doing like you know Irish kind of cultural differences as well and all of a sudden I realized I was getting a really big Irish audience from it and international audience and I grew, I think, to like I don't know, in in the space of like a year and a half I grew to like 80,000 followers or something and like now I'm on nearly 130,000 followers and I, yeah, then I just stopped making language kind of content and I started just making comedy content because I realized how much I enjoyed acting again and like being in that performance space, learning how to edit, like I'd never done anything these things before. And then, yeah, and then I got approached by another comedian who was like, do you want to do some comedy? Because she saw my online profile and was like oh, she's a comedian. And I said yes and pretended I was a comedian. She was like are you a comedian? I was like back to its spiritual boo-boo stuff. I was like this is the universe opening a door. You have to say yes. So I said yes.
Speaker 2:Then I got booked to go to New York because they thought I was a comedian. I got paid, like they paid me to fly over there. I said yes. Then someone off the back of that was like, oh, do you want to come do 20 minutes? I was like yes, and then from there on it was the easiest.
Speaker 2:This has been the easiest year and a half in terms of I've just said yes to everything that's come my way the last year and a half. But if you were to believe in divine intervention, like I feel like I forced so many things from ages like 20 to 35 and from 35 to now, let's say it's felt like a, like a real ease. I haven't this whole comedy storytelling, creating my show, everything about this has felt like a divine intervention. Somebody, something, whatever you want to call it has literally given me this free pass. I've just like the weirdest things have come my way. Honestly, I am a big believer in all of that stuff. Have you ever heard of the artist's way? Yes, another comedian friend of mine had recommended to me, actually literally last week. Oh really, she loves it.
Speaker 1:This sounds like synchronicity, yeah, so I did the artist's way with my friend hells. We did it as a podcast actually, so we did 12 weeks and put out an episode every week nice and an intro and an exit and what we learned, and we talk the whole way through, because that is all about creating and the universe will guide you. Yes, my friend hells is not at all a believer in anything. She thinks it's a load of shite, whereas I am very much a believer.
Speaker 1:So we have this like balance nice, that's me and my boyfriend we balance each other quite a lot, but I really do believe this and I think when you put yourself out there, when it's your time, it will happen for you, and that's what I meant earlier. Like, maybe at 19 you weren't ready because you hadn't had all the experiences you would have needed, yeah, to be where are now. But here you are and you're doing it, yes, and you're showing other people that it can be done as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, 100%. That's amazing. Just also quickly want to mention that you have two masters in human rights.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, the first one is in international human rights law, so it's an LLM, and the second one is with King's Inn.
Speaker 1:And it's a specialization in a refugee protection and asylum law amazing. But that's also just incredible that you've done that. So we're talking about you being a language teacher and doing comedy and acting, but you've also done some incredibly accomplished education like that's amazing yeah, well, because that was my when you were like, when I was teaching I then I thought, okay, I'll move into human rights law.
Speaker 2:but then again I also saw that, like I did two or three internships so I went to the ICTY, the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia, and I worked there under the appeals chamber on the genocide case of Srebrenica. So I got to learn how to write legal drafting and researching and we researched all the kind of yeah, all the cases around that genocide case. It was amazing experience. And then after that I went to Ecuador and worked with Colombian refugees escaping the FARC and paramilitary so they would go into Ecuador, so they have their own refugee protection system in Latin America specifically for those escaped victims of paramilitary activity and drug lords. And that was amazing.
Speaker 2:But I did all that unpaid and then when I came back I was like, ok, I'm going to get a job. And then people and organizations NGOs still demanding I do more unpaid work to get experience and I was like I can't afford to do this anymore. So that was another thing maybe about privilege and stuff as well that I was like I just don't have the money to support myself in that field. But also maybe, maybe also, like you said, I didn't want it enough.
Speaker 1:Like maybe this, this I always knew I maybe wanted to perform deep down maybe I'm so impressed by everything you've done, but you were also so clearly a natural performer, like when I was sat in that room the other night and you're on stage. I've never seen somebody look so at home. Yeah, on stage like you look like this is my place. You're an amazing storyteller.
Speaker 1:You do a spoken word or written word spoken word yeah poetry and, yeah, I just feel like I'm so happy to see you just doing what you're meant to do, obviously, thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's crazy because I, when I'm backstage, I'm super nervous, like I can't tell you like my Fitbit thinks I'm going for a swim. It keeps giving me little updates nice work on your swim. I'm like, no, I'm just shitting myself like, pacing back and forth, and I saw other comedians and they were looking at me like oh, you're really nervous. And I was like no, no, I get so nervous. But then you know people who've seen me live then or it's like, but you never seem nervous on stage. I was like no, no, the minute I I'm on stage, I feel okay, it's the piece before I can't. I just yeah, it's awful, I get so nervous. But being on stage, I feel okay, it's the piece before I can't. I just yeah, it's awful, I get so nervous. But being on stage, I feel very at home, yeah.
Speaker 1:You look totally at home, like you belong there, so it's so lovely to see this coming to life, everything that you've dreamt of. Please tell us where can people find you?
Speaker 2:and find the show, so you can follow me on Instagram. If so, you can follow me on Instagram. Aoife's Never Done on TikTok as well, but I don't really go on there as much, and I'm doing the Ambassador Theatre in Dublin September 20th and I'll also be in the Galway Arts Festival I think they're announcing next week. So I'm doing two shows there and I'll be in Cork and Belfast, but the dates are yet to be announced. But that's definitely happening as well.
Speaker 1:So yeah, announced, but that's definitely happening as well. So, yeah, amazing, yeah, congratulations. It's so lovely to see this come to fruition for you. You really deserve it and I can't wait to see what's next for you thank you so much, rio.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me there you have it.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of this is disruption. If you've enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to follow the podcast and never miss an episode. You can find us on all major podcast platforms apple podcast, spotify, etc. Also on youtube. Stay connected with us on social media. You can find us on all major podcast platforms Apple Podcasts, spotify, etc. Also on YouTube. Stay connected with us on social media. You can find the podcast at this Is Disruption Pod on Instagram and TikTok and you will find updates and snippets of upcoming shows. Until next time, keep challenging the status quo, embracing your creative spirit, and be brave. Go and create. Thank you, and see you in the next episode.