Back to Basics: Book Clubs & Birthday Parties

This week, Kelli King-Jackson and Kendra Ross return to the group chat to talk about the everyday things keeping us grounded as the world keeps shifting. From celebrity parties and “eat the rich” threads to flu and COVID shots, we name how uncertain this season still feels for many of us.

Kendra shares why she’s recommitting to reading after hearing Percival Everett call books—and book clubs—radical practices. We talk about how reading habits changed during the pandemic and how book clubs, even the informal ones, offer community and joy.

Hair care brings a “back to basics” moment with flexi rods, rollers, silk presses, and the simple routines that help us feel like ourselves. We also sit with aging, partnership, solitude, and the ache some women feel when life doesn’t follow old expectations. Across it all, friendship shows up as its own kind of wealth.

Money surfaces throughout the episode—rising costs, budgeting stress, the so-called “Black tax,” and caring for loved ones while managing our own responsibilities. We name the tenderness needed this holiday season as many families make hard choices.

We close with political education: rural suffering, misinformation, and why accessible, community-centered learning still matters. From Books & Breakfast to loving accountability, we explore what “back to basics” might mean for the world we’re trying to build.

Related Links

1. Percival Everett interview on reading as subversion — referenced by Kendra
2. The Inheritance of Loss by Kiran Desai — referenced by Kendra
3. Bell Hooks quote on solitude & love — referenced by Kendra
4. Black Panther Party’s Breakfast Program — referenced by Kendra
5. Working Families Party — referenced by Kelli
6. Jamaica disaster recovery resource — referenced by Kelli
7. Domestic violence after a weather event — referenced by Kelli
8. Dominican blowout/roller-set traditions — referenced by Kendra
9. Pittsburgh Black Feminist Reading Group — referenced by Kendra
10. COVID & flu vaccine info — referenced by both hosts
11. Dr. Greg Carr’s “different ways of knowing and being” - referenced by Kendra

Kelli King-Jackson is a certified professional coach to Black women leading in white spaces. In addition to coaching, she works with organizations truly committed to justice for Black women by providing philanthropic advising, facilitation, and speaking services. Learn more about Kelli's work here: https://www.iamkelli.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:05

The views shared this episode represent Kelly and Kendra, not our mama, partner, church, job, or sponsor.

SPEAKER_01: 0:16

Alright. Let's see. I'm checking in on the group chat. Lots of party conversations. So y'all Kendra's turning 50 in December. And in. Super excited about being with her for that.

SPEAKER_00: 0:37

Shoot. For all we know, who knows when this is gonna even pod. Yeah. I might already be 50. No. It'll probably go before that.

SPEAKER_01: 0:47

Yes. Um, let's see. What else was in the group chat? Oh. The Carter's going to the Kardashians party was in the group chat. Chow.

SPEAKER_00: 0:59

I can't. Somebody posted. Who uh what's her name? Oh, Dag, I'm all them out the frame. Uh what's the name? She's a comedian and actress. Chelsea. Is that her name? Oh, yes. Chelsea Lee. Uh-huh. Her and somebody was just talking. They were like, you do not know this person. When you're talking about you can't believe that the card is there, you don't know her. You don't know Beyoncé. So why can't it's not for you to believe because you don't know them people like that. They're not your friends.

SPEAKER_01: 1:28

We have lots of opinions with so much access to people's lives.

SPEAKER_00: 1:34

Truly. And and and it the ri the thing that made those so complicated, it was like, it was, it was Chris Jenner's 70th birthday. Okay. Hosted by the Bezos. Okay, that's that's where they got rich. But then basically it was just like, it just very much gave Eat the Rich. It very much gave You're Not Like Us. And we have to like be honest, as much as we love to go to the Renaissance and to Cowboy Carter and all these people, they are more like them than they are us at this point in the world. No matter what symbols and stuff that we see. And you know, it's funny, some years back, you know, there would always be this dichotomy between like a Beyonce and a Solange. And I didn't like it. I was like, don't compare the sister. People would say, well, Beyonce is only creative because Solange is creative. And I'm like, mmm, there's a lot that Beyoncé does and sacrifices and enables so that Solange can Solange and vice versa. Um but in this particular moment, I'm definitely dealing, I'm definitely on some Ether Rich. I can't, I just can't. It's just, and you know, at the time when we saw that, the snap benefits had not been reversed yet. You know what I mean? It just it's just a lie. Yeah. And then I saw uh Meghan Markle and Prince Harry was like, take our shit down. Yeah, take our pictures down. Like, no, you was there, boo. Own it. Yes, you were there. And and and listen, I'm not even like, I'm not one of these people that was gonna get on the internet and be like really be going in on it. It's not even that serious for me. But I did tell our our our good friend Dr. Kaya A. Lawrence to slow down on that that sacred purchase. Because she They don't need no more of your money. She don't need no more of our money. Good God Almighty. But here's the hypocrisy. I'm sure I've ordered about 40,000 Amazon packages since that day. So here we are.

SPEAKER_01: 3:24

Here we are. I mean, it's the tension of like the purity of the outrage, right? Like we we all live in the conflict. We all live in the um, what's the word I'm looking for? The cognizive cognitive dissonance. Dissonance, yeah. Um, we all live in the contradiction. Um, but I think a lot of times we want purists, right? Yeah. And even with Beyond's purist. Yeah, we want her to be just for black people when she is uber wealthy. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 4:01

I also think there's uh something to be said. There are extreme cases. There's something to be said about learning how to be to critique things and be critical of things without having to hate people. Like dehumanizing people, yeah. Dehumanizing people like I don't know if you saw when Miss Rachel got um glamour, woman of the year, whatever. Okay. Which I think was well deserved. And an activist that I follow on Instagram got on Instagram to say how by the virtue of the fact that she accepted it means that she probably didn't deserve it, and that she's more dangerous than some of the others because she focuses all her Palestinian all her uh supportive Palestine on children. And I'm like, she's that's her market. She's miss, she's Miss Rachel. And the thing is, you can have opinions, but like, this is what y'all spend y'all time doing. Like, there's really people out here trying to make sure we don't eat, that we are dead. And now y'all mad because Miss Rachel did the photo shoot for glamour. I I don't, I just there's some stuff I just don't understand. I said, oh, maybe like maybe I am just a boom a boomer centrist because I don't get it. Like, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01: 5:14

I mean, I think it also goes back to this whole like we collectively are not well. Like, we have literally been living in crisis and chaos since the winter of 2020, right? Like we had four or five years of pandemic, lockdowns, people dying, people politicizing vaccinations. Um we've had administration changes and and chaos. The democracy is what? Like, it is literally like we are not well, and I think that we need to talk way more about that. Um, because I think some of the reactions that we're having is because of that. Um, and just the way we are so aggressive with each other.

SPEAKER_00: 6:00

Yes. Yes, like I I I don't need, I don't need people screaming in my face. I don't care who you are and what you support. I just I don't have it to do. Speaking of vaccinations, and then we'll go back to this, you know, my brain. Yeah. Now, every time for the past five years, when I go to the doctor for my yearly exam, they like, you want to get your flu shot and your COVID, your COVID vaccine today? On Friday, I go to the doctor and they say, Hey, you wanna do your flu shot today? And you said slow curtain in. I didn't say give me the COVID shot. I took my flu shot and I'm gonna go to CBS because this CBS bugs me on on the app every other day, ask me to come do it. Even if I have to pay, I'm gonna go where people are trying to give it to me. That just got on my nerves. I don't know why. I understand. Like, because it was optional anyway. Like they could have said, hey, do you want to get a COVID shot? But that's where we are now.

SPEAKER_01: 6:55

Yeah. I mean, I I don't even know whose insurance is covering it. I thought it was interesting. We went to RCVS for the flu shot, which we hadn't gotten flu shots before because the time my husband got the flu shot, I mean, the flu several years back, the nurse was like, Yeah, the flu shot is really on the previous year's flu. So as long as you catch it early, like it doesn't make sense to get the flu shot. So I was like, Oh, well, I don't need the flu shot. Why am I gonna get a shot from last year's flu when this year's flu is happening? So I never got the flu shot. But baby, when I tell you when my husband got the flu last year and he thought he was gonna die.

SPEAKER_00: 7:32

Yeah, it's no joke.

SPEAKER_01: 7:34

It's different getting the flu at 50. Yes, I would I went straight and got the flu shot. So this year, when we walked in for the flu shot, they were like, Oh, while you're here, do you want to get your COVID vaccination? And I was like, absolutely. I've never gotten two shots as an adult at one time, but let's do it. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 7:50

Yeah, that's the only reason why I wasn't pressed to ask them because I'm like, I actually am not in the mood to be on my behind for 24 hours. So I will go get the CVS to get the COVID shot later. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 8:02

Um But I mean, I have colleagues who are still, you know, testing because a lot of my friends aren't testing. Um, so I do have some folks who are still testing, you know, have had COVID and known it in the past couple of months. So definitely y'all be careful out there.

SPEAKER_00: 8:17

We still have cases all the time, but people just don't talk about it. They just say I'm homesick. I was sick maybe a month ago for and I just I just stayed in the house for five days. I tested three times. I was never positive. I also don't trust them tests always to work because there was been a time before where I had COVID and I tested for like five days, and I didn't start testing positive until it was like towards the end. Um, so I stayed home for the most part, and then I I wore a mask to work one day, and then I just, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 8:45

Can you say that again? Can we normalize getting back to masks when we sit? Because the way these ninjas be coughing and out in these streets without a mask on.

SPEAKER_00: 8:54

Listen, when I start coughing, even when I'm just like regular coughing, I be feeling bad. Um, I also have a coworker uh whose daughter is going undergoing treatment and he wears a mask to work. And so, you know, I try to respect the fact that he's not trying to infect his child, you know, um, who lives with him full time. So um Yeah, but it's it's really strange. Everything is really strange. You're so right. This post-COVID world is so wild. Yeah. And I I think, you know, our attachment to social media and our phones just got worse to the point where I sometimes get like kind of like low-key melancholy slash depressed, thinking about how much time I waste on social media and how much of this vision board behind me I want to get done that I haven't got done. But then in some cases I've got a lot done. I've planned my 50th birthday, I've been working on the pod. I did get some music together. My uncle's supposed to be mixing my stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 9:56

Kendra has a new single coming out that's really, really good.

SPEAKER_00: 10:01

Well, we'll see. I have I'm probably gonna do like a little EP of songs that I've been working on for the past couple years. The one single that I was working on, I'm still waiting for my other producer, Christian. I don't know what happened.

SPEAKER_01: 10:11

Kristen, if you're listening, can you can you send that song back? Yeah, so I need to reach, I'm actually about to reach out to him tonight. I'm assuming we're gonna cut bad literature.

SPEAKER_00: 10:19

No, we ain't gonna cut out. That's all. We we we call our friends to the mat. It ain't like he moved to another country. He just probably just got busy. Um, yeah, but anyway, I just feel like social media has taken me down a rabbit hole. And I was watching, it's it's appeared quite a few times on my on my um timeline on IG on my butt um watching again a French uh host interviewing the author, Percival Evert. And he's saying, he was saying the most radical thing that we could do right now is read books. And the second most radical thing we could do right now is form book clubs. Um he's like, because we've lost that muscle of critique. And, you know, like I was a ferocious, verocious reader for so long. And now, and then for a while, I was like, okay, maybe my brain is not ready to read the written word and paper, so I'll just do audiobooks. But I haven't even been doing as many audiobooks as I used to. Or I'll start them and don't finish them. So my my goal is the book that I've been. I started this book in the nail song like three weeks ago, and I was so proud of myself because I sat there in the pedicure chair and read 30 pages. And then today I sat in the pedicure page and I couldn't even get through a paragraph. But this book, uh, shout out to Sony, who is the executive director of Pittsburgh Arts and Lectures, who does um book lectures by famous authors. I ran into him at City of Asylums Litfest, and this book was next to him, and I said, What should I read next? And he pointed to this and he's like, You should read this. What's it about? Um, it's set in India. Uh but from what I can gather, uh, it's the story of a young girl who whose parents passed away, who was living in a convent who is sent to go live with her grandfather that she never really knew who was a judge. Um but it's a very complicated story. Her grandfather had a certain level of esteem at one point, and by the time you start the story, it's no longer there. So you're seeing the despair of where they are, and you're seeing it through the lens of this granddaughter's child, the judge, but also the judge's servant. And the servant has a son who moved to New York for a better life, and the the servant puts all his hope into the fact of his son making it big in New York, but when you find out his son is an immigrant struggling to keep jobs and moving from job to job because he's he's undocumented. So it's be I mean, it's called the inheritance of laws. Okay. Uh, but it's a beautiful, it's beautifully written. Awesome. Um and it reminds me, um, it just reminds me that this is that reading books is always the way.

SPEAKER_01: 13:16

Yeah, reading books is the way. Um we'll put the link to the um Instagram post, Kindred reference in the show notes for folks who want to respond.

SPEAKER_00: 13:29

We shall.

SPEAKER_01: 13:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 13:31

And it's funny, I started a recent book club, two-person book club. We haven't actually talked about any books yet. But me and a woman I met through Chief, the woman's thing, um, Lindsay Smith. Lindsay. Um we met through Chief. At the time she was living in Florida, but her family was her husband's from here. They decided to move full-time to Pittsburgh. And she works uh in for the Alzheimer's Association. Her mother had Alzheimer's, her aunt had Alzheimer's, so it's something she's passionate about. But we've been talking a lot about things politically and stuff, and we were like, hey, let's make sense of this together, you know. I love it. Fun fact, she also, I didn't know her until two years ago, but she went to NYU and graduated the same day as me in Washington Square Park.

SPEAKER_01: 14:18

Oh wow, I love that. Yeah. We still met at you NYU, but that's okay. Um and the best book clubs actually don't talk about the books but build community, I'm just saying. It's true. So I always tell people I had no shame showing showing at the book club when I hadn't finished the books because we always had something to talk about. So word.

SPEAKER_00: 14:41

Shout out to the Pittsburgh Black Feminist Reading Group, which was the reading group that I started with some folks maybe seven or eight years ago. We have not been active in many years, but I'm still have really great relationships with a lot of the folks, including Danelle, one of my best friends, including Dr. Leatra Tate, the producer of this podcast, including our good our dear friend writer Bonita Penn, whose play we were in this year, including Becca Zale Mguni, a writer, activist, librarian, including um who else did I miss? Those are the main characters.

SPEAKER_01: 15:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 15:20

Anyway.

SPEAKER_01: 15:21

Well, maybe after the party is over and you've recovered from your celebrating, we can do something with your book club. Something bookish. Yeah, I love it. Uh, what else has been happening in the group chat? Let me see. I'm trying to scroll back up, y'all. Let's peruse. Let's peruse. Um, we've definitely been outfit planning for Kenja's party, so that's a big thing in the group chat.

SPEAKER_00: 15:47

Your girl has between the photo shoot for my birthday and now the party, I have purchased all these new clothes that 85% of them I'm never gonna wear, but I refuse to get rid of them. I love it. And shout and I know we're like against fast fashion, but my little stylist slash nephew had me pick out some pieces from Fashion Nova. And they're cute. I got some suits, and they look, they're they're decent quality, and I have them in two sizes. I have them in two sizes in case of anything.

SPEAKER_01: 16:16

Yes. I love black women. You're not a black woman if you don't have more than one size in your closet. Correct.

SPEAKER_00: 16:24

Well, I got the one size, but I wore the one size for my photo shoot, but the pants were falling off. So I said, okay, I'm gonna order the other size and I'll keep the top of the one one and I'll get the bottom of the other, and I'll give the other pants to my good friend Tanika, my bestie. But then her hips was was not cooperating with the pants. So I said, you know what? I'm not sending it back. I'm keeping both. I love that. Group chat. The new group chat is back to the basics with the black little hair.

SPEAKER_01: 16:48

Oh, oh yeah, the flexi rods. Y'all was talking about that. You know, I didn't cut mine off, but tell me more. I had questions.

SPEAKER_00: 16:53

Well, that's still I still went back to basics. So back basically, we didn't discover all these fancy hair products and all these new serums and things and all these new techniques. And mugs been rolling their hair at night, having getting blowouts, get rolling their hair at night, like we used to when we used to go to the old ladies to do our hair back in the day. Dr. Kaya uh posted a picture of her hair looking super cute in like a bobbish style. And she's like, Yep, we back to bases. I've been rolling my hair up. I said, girl, I've been flexirod rolling mine too.

SPEAKER_01: 17:21

What is a one piece heartless curl doohickey?

SPEAKER_00: 17:25

What's that? So I think it's the things I mostly see white women wear them, or other women who have who have longer hair. But basically, it's a it's like a flexi rod that's covered in satin, and you you can like put your whole hair in like you just you basically put your whole hair in one roller and then you go like this and it falls out. I'm assuming that's what she means. Well, I can't do that. I don't have the technique or the length. Um I love it. But yeah, because it gives you that nice, you see how she has like that nice loose curl without having to use heat.

SPEAKER_01: 18:00

I love it. Well, you said something. You said basic is healthy. Say more.

SPEAKER_00: 18:04

Basic is healthy. Honestly, we have gone to all these. Now, granted, there's something to be said about like not testing on animals and not having sulfates and all this other stuff. But like the hair products that we was using back in the day, most of them still work really well. Like, let's be honest, pink lotion never did us wrong. A little bit of, remember the grease that used to add a little seeds in it? And you'd be like, ooh, that's like getting in. Like, some of that stuff still works. But like, honestly, like like even the fact that we call it uh a a silk press, girl, that's we that was called getting your hair with the straightened comb back in the day. Right? Like, so the basics is just like there were people always had kind of techniques. Now, there's ways there's things that you can do with the same technique to be more healthy, right? Like washing your hair more often, not overdoing it with the heat, having better technology so that the heat where you don't have to like go through it 45 times, you can just go like when my when I get my hair blown out, she doesn't blow it a million times, she blows it through one time, and then she just uses the flat iron one time because the tool is better. Yeah. So we can we can use technology to embrace what we already have as opposed to having to create all these new fancy things and people charging$300 for a silk press. Hello, somebody. What are we doing here? I stick with my sister Candy in a Dominican hair salon where I get uh a steam conditioner, uh roller set, and then a blowout and a bump for I think$80,$70 something dollars. Oh wow. Wow. What are we doing here? What are we doing? What are we doing? Even with a trim, it's like 80, it comes to$81 with a trim. Yes. But people are charging three and four dollars. Does she require you to wash your hair?

SPEAKER_01: 19:52

Because I heard before you come, I've heard that's a thing now.

SPEAKER_00: 19:55

At the Dominican hair salon? Oh no, that's the best part. Because they get in there, child. I love my sisters, and I especially love my Afro-Latina sisters who know that they are also one of us. Um I feel embraced when I come in there. And I've had mixed bags like in New York where I went to some Dominican salons and they were like, I had one people, though there's one on 50-something street in Manhattan, and I used to go there because it was near my job, and I can go at lunch. And then one day I came in there and this lady was like, we don't do natural hair. What she meant is we don't do naps. Because y'all definitely do natural hair. Everybody in here is getting their hair extreme. But then I would go to other ones in Harlem and it was like, you know, hey sister. So anyway, I enjoy it. I love it. I just got a text in response to your spreadsheet about my party from JR that says, I love my type A humans. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 20:48

Listen, we did we had a problem, and I could come up with a solution.

SPEAKER_00: 20:52

So Capricorn was happy, baby. And now you got the Scorpio happy. I love it. All right, go ahead. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna be talking to you.

SPEAKER_01: 21:02

No, you know, no, no, no, no. Um, let's see, what else is in here? Um acceptance around um coming to a place of acceptance that romance and partnership wasn't in the cards for someone. Um and that it felt like that meant um no one would celebrate her. This was someone's TikTok that Dr. Kaya shared. And then we were just talking about how it made us sad thinking about that, you know, at points in our lives, especially having grown up in the church where marriage was like the goal, right? Um, but so many of my friends are not married. Some have never been married, some are partnered, some are in transition. Um, but what I have learned is my girls are gonna celebrate me regardless, right? So whether the marriage is working or not, my my girls have my back, but I know a lot of people don't feel like they have that.

SPEAKER_00: 22:57

I know that my relationships with my no, I have great relationships with men too, as you know. Shout out to Adler and Tony and Eternal, and you know, I have great relationships with men. Um but like my friendship with women is like my superpower. It's funny, today Greg said something to me. He's like, You rich. I was like, I ain't rich. He's like, I don't mean money. But I'm like, you're right. I am, and it's my relationships. Yep. Like, y'all can't tell me SH about like I for sometimes I'm like, man, how am I this blessed? Because a lot of people don't have people like you. I'm I have one, maybe two good friends. I'm like, mm, can't relate. Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 23:40

Jack says that to me all the time. He was like, you don't understand how lucky you are because everyone doesn't have that. And I'm like, you're right.

SPEAKER_00: 23:50

And I'm finding that most people don't have it. Yeah. Because when Tanika Donnell and I are out in Pittsburgh, people are always like, man, y'all are amazing. Because we it's also because we're we're like sisters and best friends, but we also have a business together, just like me and you. And so people are just like, oh man, I wish I had this. Um but I also think I just pulled up the Bell Hooks quote just because I thought it was apropos for this particular conversation to your point about relationship. You've been married for 20 something years, but um, Bell Hooks wrote, Knowing how to be solitary is central to the art of loving. When we can be alone, we can be with others without using them as a means of escape. Um, and although I have not been in a long-term relationship as long as you, I do believe that when I did meet my partner, the time was right because I had gotten really good at being alone. You know, prior to moving back to Pittsburgh, even in New York, but when I moved to Pittsburgh, I bought my house in 2015 and I met him in 2019. Yeah. So I spent a substantial amount of time just in this house alone. Um, and then when I was ready and when I desired to be partnered, like was the first time in my life where I was honest about that. Yeah. Because before I'd be like, oh, I'm good, you know. Because I was sometimes I was good, sometimes I didn't want to be bothered. Um, but that was the first time in my ever that I was like, I was in my 40s, like, okay, no, I actually want to find the right person. And I was setting up the conditions so I could, you know. But I by that time I knew who I was, you know. Now it has some, you know, took and pull because I'm talking about like, look, thankfully, this office is my sanctuary because came up, but this is me. Same, same, same. I've had to share everything else. I ain't sharing it.

SPEAKER_01: 25:33

Yes, same. Same, same. They they know this this my spot. Don't, don't, don't, this not a can. Now they'll come in to do certain things, but like right, whatever I want to do, I do in my office. But I will say, and I've I've realized this in the pandemic, one of the reasons we stayed married so long is that we had time apart, right? Like I was traveling for work, he was traveling because he was in the military. Um, being in the house every day, all the time, I was like, oh, what is this? This is different. I didn't work from home, right? I went to an office every day and then I came back. But he worked from home, but then we were all home together at the same time. That's a lot. It was a lot. So I understand how people literally, some of them lost their minds in the pandemic because it's like, oh, I need a break. So I do appreciate that we have things that we do together, and then we have things that we do on our own. And I don't begrudge that him, nor does he begrudge me that. So same.

SPEAKER_00: 26:34

Like Greg, his social battery is real short. So if I asked him to go somewhere, and I asked him somewhere to go somewhere else the same week, he'd be like, I already been out the house this week. Like, all right, well, I'm out, and I could be gone for five days in a row. No, he was someday I'm gonna be like, Well, are you gonna stay home and watch a show with me or something? You know, but for the most part, he'd be like, All right, bye. As long as I order him some food or something, we good.

SPEAKER_01: 26:58

Yeah, that's where Greg and I may be a little bit more similar. Like Jack could be out in the streets, and I'm just like, nah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:05

So yeah. I I would like to be home more. It's just the the life that I live and the career that I have. We like your life. I like my life, and after this party, I'm really trying to be home. I don't know how that's gonna work. But definitely during the winter time.

SPEAKER_01: 27:22

Can you tell me about this when you're done? Clock it? Is that what it? I need I need more context. You know, I don't be on the internet no more. Child, I'm a I'm Gen Z Gen X too. I'm barely getting by. But you know what, clock it. No, I was on a call the other day, and this black woman was doing this, and I'm like, I'm assuming this is like snapping, like in the old, like the old people do, like, yes, yes. It's just like clock that T.

SPEAKER_00: 27:47

Like. So it's like, you know how we mean like you see, you see. Like, if I said something like, ooh, the hair is herring, and you be like, clock it, like you, that means I I was aware of something. Or if somebody did something foul and I like such and such did this, clock it, like mean you could mean you could see something, you calling it, you calling it out. Or like if you, you know, low-key, like, girl, come to find well, you know, the rumor this week was about Bubba and what's his face? I don't even want to get into it. Bubba. Oh, you remember.

SPEAKER_01: 28:22

You know, I got a timer on my Instagram. I the Epstein files? Jack asked me today what I thought, and I said, Jack, I don't know anything about the Epstein files.

SPEAKER_00: 28:30

Apparently, in one of the emails, Epstein was talking about do you still have does does Putin still have the picture of when Trump was giving somebody named Bubba oral something? Not oral something. And we we only know one Bubba in the popular imagination.

SPEAKER_01: 28:52

Who? Uh uh W. Who was Bubba? No.

SPEAKER_00: 28:58

Arkansas. Oh, oh not you put it out on the pod. Oh my god. Now, we don't know if it's true, but this is this was in the email. So all week people have been like, no wonder uh he was coming for uh Hillary because I love black people. We are horrible when these things happen. Wait, there's wait, wait, wait. I gotta put now one of my favorite uh IG IG follows is Saint Haran because it is don't be some like serious um not St. Haran, Saint Hoax. Okay. Saint Haran is uh what's her face? Silange. Solange who we were just talking about. Um but Saint Hoax uh was it on this one? Oh, some this black girl. Okay, hold up. Now we're gonna have to cut this out the pot, but this is just for context for for uh Solia, you could cut out the next second.

SPEAKER_01: 30:11

We're back. Just wow. Um for those who don't know, this year I implemented a timer that the iPhone has on socials. So I only get 15 minutes a day, and I really try to honor that. So I miss a lot of popular culture this year in a way that I typically didn't. I wish I did.

SPEAKER_00: 30:33

I use the same timer. You know what I do? I hit ignore for today, every day. Ignore for the rest of the day. No. Every once in a while hit remind me of 15 minutes. But for the most part, it's ignore for today. That's the difference between a Capricorn and a Sagittarius. I am completely unhinged at all times.

SPEAKER_01: 30:53

Yes, Capricorns are great at discipline.

SPEAKER_00: 30:56

Oh man, y'all really are. And I am not, Lord help me. But somehow I I always think, like, man, I'm pretty accomplished. I'm a late bloomer, but I'm a pretty pretty accomplished person. If I was disciplined, I would probably be. But then you wouldn't be your artistic side.

SPEAKER_01: 31:14

But then I wouldn't be me.

SPEAKER_00: 31:15

You gotta Then I wouldn't be me.

SPEAKER_01: 31:17

It's it's it's important to have the know thyself. Yeah, and to have the different ways of being.

SPEAKER_00: 31:26

Or as Dr. Carr says, different ways of knowing and being. Yes. Um, yeah, it's funny. I always come back to when I was, you know, when I was in my doctoral studies and Dr. Gatson was in it, and she was like, regimen, and every day I do this much so I can get done, and she finished. And I was like, Dr. Gatson, I wish I was like you and I was disciplined, I can get done. She's like, girl, you were writing a whole paper in the car on the way to class and turned it in. I can't do that. I was like, that's how my brain works. Yeah. I can wake up at midnight the day before something due and write a 20-page paper like it ain't nothing. Yeah, I can't do that. But all that, doing a little bit every day, it's not going down. I'm a binger. I'm gonna go to Jamaica for a month and write the whole book. I'm gonna be Zora Neil Hurston on the As We're Watching God, where she went to Hayden. I'm gonna go and write a whole book in one sitting and then come back.

SPEAKER_01: 32:16

I love it. Hmm. Interesting. Anything else in the group chat of interest? Let's see.

SPEAKER_02: 32:25

Um I mean, there's always things to discuss.

SPEAKER_00: 32:35

There are. I mean, I mean, one thing that's in a group chat is us figuring out this trip to Ghana for another friend's 50th birthday party. Absolutely. The coin of it all.

SPEAKER_01: 32:47

The coin of it all, yes. Um Do you have any other go ahead?

SPEAKER_00: 32:55

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01: 32:55

No, go ahead. No, I was just gonna say it's that always that tension of being in a class where you have options, but also feeling like squeezed in that class because other of other obligations. Um maybe it's real.

SPEAKER_00: 33:13

The black tax. You talking about that? Yeah. I hate the phrase the black tax, but it's real. I feel it every day. It is. It is. I I also feel compelled in this class, we're talking about this in between. I feel compelled to give to everything. Like if there's something to give to, I feel like I gotta give. Same. And everybody's the child needed surgery. Of course, we want to give to the Jamaica fund. An artist is working on something, a family member needs something. I feel like I'm always, and then, and it's a it's a blessing to be able to do so, but you start adding that stuff up. Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 33:54

Um, I was in a conversation with a colleague of mine whose um organization is doing some, are has been doing work in Jamaica and who's actually now fundraising to support um the programs they've already been investing in. But, you know, it I don't know if the general public knows that the period after disaster is some of the most dangerous times for women and girls because violence tends to go up. Um, and so just feeling a sense of urgency to get women and girls resources that they need because this is gonna be a very long recovery for Jamaica. Um and when she said that, I was like, oh, I'm absolutely giving to that, of course. I'm like, and I can't give to everything. I'm like, gotta make some choices. Um, but yeah, just feeling this sense of privilege that I have some resources to give that can make an impact there. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 34:54

Yeah. And and I won't stop doing it. Um, but I also recognize that like when you're like that, you gotta be really conscious about budgeting and stuff because it's easy to be like, oh, well, I'm good. I live below my means, my mortgage is low, but like, yeah, but you start adding all that stuff up and you end up doing the opposite of what you say you're doing. Absolutely. Um, like I went from for a you know a while there, especially when I was driving my last car that was paid off, where I was like, man, like I'm living so below my means. And then I got used to that refrain. I'm like, oh, I can do this, I can do that for that person, I can do this. And I looked up and I'm like, oh my goodness, I'm feeling very paycheck to paychecky this week. Like I need my check to come. Which is and I haven't felt like that in a long time.

SPEAKER_01: 35:43

I told I told my therapist, I said, looking at the price of my cheese or my whatever at the grocery store is not the life I want to live at 52 years old. I was like, let me tell you. My the eggs I buy are almost$9 a dozen because they have no hormones, which is very rare to find in Texas. But I don't want to buy the$4, the$3 eggs. I want my$9 a dozen eggs.

SPEAKER_00: 36:10

I went to the grocery store the other day, which I don't always do often because admittedly I order a lot and I also eat for free at work. So I save money there. And I was in the grocery store. I was like, how are people who are living like regular wage jobs making it? Because this is stupid. It is.

SPEAKER_01: 36:24

It's horrible.

SPEAKER_00: 36:25

And now I I got excited because down the street where there used to be a staples that was always empty, all these is working open the next week. So in my mind, I'm like, okay, that'll force me to make better decisions because I can be like, okay, I'm hungry. Let me go down a hill and get me some some fresh organic produce and make me a salad. Or like, you know, I can make better choices. Now, I won't get everything there because, like you, I like certain, I like my bougie eggs and all that stuff. But I can make better choices on the fly because it's like as close as like a convenient part.

SPEAKER_02: 36:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:56

Um, and I've also been really happy with the way Aldi has shown up in these times where people are having it, bro.

SPEAKER_01: 37:02

Say more.

SPEAKER_00: 37:03

We're like, they had this thing where like for$35 or$40, you can buy an entire family's worth of like Thanksgiving stuff. So like they already had it pre-planned so people can make decisions. And then at work, we've been doing a food drive for a local um a local outreach place. And we've been able to order so much food through Aldi in bulk. We were able to like, we had set almost seven cars, we had six cars full of food that we drove up to because the way Aldi has been able to, you know, to allow us to stretch that dollar. Excellent. Um, so yeah, all I'm saying is I would never think be thinking about that before, but now I'm like, let me now granted, look, I don't want to like misrepresent myself. Like, I'm fine, but I've just been going a little hard in the paint. And in 2026, I need to sit back and chill because I would like to retire early.

SPEAKER_01: 37:58

Yeah, I feel that deeply. Um, yeah, I feel that deeply. I saw a post um a friend of mine did, I'll put it in the chat that kind of went viral on LinkedIn where she was talking about um her car had gone out. She had um, you know, just business is slow. So her savings was low. She said her credit is not that great. Um, and just some other obligations. She was like, I can't afford to get my car fixed, so I've been relying on the bus. And she said, but I hadn't told anybody, right? I didn't tell anyone on my network. And she was like, I finally started letting people know. And someone offered to share a car with me until I can get my car fixed. And her post was her posting her meal at she took herself out to breakfast using the car for the first time. And the way people rallied and were giving her connections to resources where they might fix her car for free, but also telling their stories, people having gone through bankruptcy, people, you know, struggling to care for family. Um we've depleted our savings multiple times trying to help other people. Um, and it could it comes at a cost, but if I have the opportunity to do it, I will, you know, like it's just something about who we are, who we're wired to be. Um, but financial planners hate it. They're like, listen.

SPEAKER_00: 39:29

Yeah, I don't even do, I don't even have a financial plan no more.

SPEAKER_01: 39:32

Yeah. So if it's if it's about to be a hurricane, I gotta ask my people if they have food. This time I actually did it in the way that I typically do. Um, because I'll be instacarting people stuff. And yeah, in this economy, I just can't, I don't have that the extra to do for people. I was telling Kendra, my husband worked, he works for the VA, so he ain't had a paycheck. The government owes me a lot of money right now that I need them to put back in my bank account because I have things that I I want to be doing with it. Um, but yeah, just the reality of the times. Like we many of us are feeling it. If you're not over-rich right now, you're feeling it in a different way. Um, whether it's your retirement is not making a lot of money because the market is all over the place, you can't cash out stock because value is not there right now.

SPEAKER_00: 40:23

Um you are cashing it out even though the value is not there because you need your money. Yeah. That's the reality, too.

SPEAKER_01: 40:29

This man playing with these student loan repayment options. So you're accruing interest or trying to make payments on things that at a time when you really can't afford it. So there's many ways that black and we've also had what four to five hundred thousand black women who've lost their jobs. The number of black black women and black families who've lost half their income because they were working for the federal government and their jobs were eliminated overnight. Like that has an impact on our economy and on our networks. Um yeah, so I do we're just gonna have to hold each other with a lot of tenderness this holiday season because people are gonna have to make some hard choices. Um, because in this capitalist society, how we do holidays um requires money.

SPEAKER_00: 41:18

Listen, I went to the mall yesterday because I had to get dresses for my party. And I was like, I really don't want to participate in Christmas this year. But you know, I have young people in my life and stuff, so I probably will. But it was packed in there as if it was like the week before Christmas. And it's not even Thanksgiving yet. And it was just like, do people and I kept looking around, do these people really have money to be shopping, or is this just like the answer, right? Like everything's going to crap, let's go to the mall. But it was crazy. Like I could even barely get a parking spot. It was so much. And then I realized, oh, people are doing early Black Friday sales. That's just what I was gonna say. Full week ahead of time, y'all are doing Black Friday sales, so now people are finding reasons to spend money that they don't have. Um, yeah, it's very disturbing. It's just like because uh in people's minds, that's an indication that the country's doing okay. I saw, again, I I mentioned this person before, a person who grew up in a church from my grandpa and my uncle's church in Ohio. One of those kids who made it out the mud but feels a need to get on Facebook and be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was like with the whole snap thing. He's like, the economy's fine, put your head down and work hard. Now, this is the person who came out of this life. The economy's fine, put your head down and work hard and blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, and you won't you'll less rely less on the government. Excuse me. This is why I pay taxes. What are you talking about? Yep. This is exactly why I pay taxes. Otherwise, why am I paying taxes if y'all not doing nothing for nobody? This is the this is this the social contract that we've signed as citizens of this country. What are we talking about here? But if it's maybe it's fine for you, but like you said, if for people who are not ultra wealthy, it is not fine. Just because we spending money don't mean the economy's good.

SPEAKER_01: 43:16

Yep. Uh, my husband and I were talking today about um, you know, societal norms and what norms do we think should be thrown out. What if if we could renorm society, what would that look like? Um, and I was telling him, as much as I try to not say I don't believe in norms, there's some norms that I've learned that I like, right? Like I like it when I get on a plane and a man stands up to put my bag up. I was like, I had to be real with myself. I'll be trying to act all independent, but no, no, I'm thank you. Uh I appreciate it. And he was like, Well, why does it have to be a man? What if anybody can just stand up and and put your bag? I said, Yeah. And when we just think about biology, right, and how people are physically built, typically it's someone who is masculine presenting um or identifies as a man. And I was like, I don't know if I want that norm to change, right? I was like, shaving our legs. I said, I hate shaving my legs. I think it's a waste of time. I hate it so much. But I saw this young woman who was just trying to disrupt the norm the other day, and I was like, baby, I need you to go get your legs waxed because I couldn't take it.

SPEAKER_00: 44:29

Trust me. I I'm like, I'm like, I'm always pride myself as being like this eclective, creative arty, whatever, whatever. And then when it the reality hits you, it's like, you mad because you're not that free. But it really will, it's like for instance, I was in the nail salon today and I got a lot of nerve because I had like a like a wrap in that kind of looked like African-y. And this young girl came in to get her toes on and she had her bonnet on. And I was like, I'm not judging her. I got my African wrap on. But I ain't gonna lie, there's a little bit of me like, really? Did you really have to wear the bonnet? It was just, and it's also the kind of the OD kind where you gotta like put it on and then tie it in the front. It's just a lot. Now, I don't, in theory, I don't judge that. I'm like, girl, I got on my African head wrap for a reason. Same thing. But low key.

SPEAKER_01: 45:14

Because it's in us.

SPEAKER_00: 45:16

I'd be like, a little boomer. There's a little boomer in me that I have to fight. Now, I do argue with the boomer within.

SPEAKER_01: 45:22

But that's real. Yes. And that's what I told him. I was like, yeah, I was like, as much as we say we want this one thing, that means we have to face the things in us that we actually don't want to be different because we bought into them. Um, because I was telling him that, you know, people say they believe in socialism. I said, but you if you look at Cuba, the wealthy Cubans got on a boat and came to Florida because they did not like giving up their wealth for everyone else to be okay. I was like, so what would that look like in our society? I said the closest example and where we will really be able to test the social experiment is New York City, now that they have elected Mr. Mandami in as mayor, right? If he can really transform the social contract to show what it could look like to live in a democratic socialist society, I think that can change the whole nation. Because what if I could pay a little bit more in taxes, but people actually don't have to sleep outside? There are people who may buy into that, what the what the mayor of Chicago is talking about, taxing the wealthy at the actual rate they should be taxed. Right. Like it that could transform what's happening in Chicago. It's that instead of asking for more police, you could actually make sure young people have food and housing and employment and quality education. Um, so yeah, I think there's some really interesting leaders right now who are really disrupting the game here in the U.S.

SPEAKER_00: 46:56

Absolutely. And I think also what would make it interesting is because there are models that work, right? Like Norway, is you know, everybody has access to the things they need and there are still wealthy people. The difference is it's a very homogeneous society. The main issue with it in places like in the United States is people, if it was a completely white nation, they would do it in a heartbeat. We could they would do it in a heartbeat. But people would rather rather starve themselves than for people of color and black people. And I and I separate the two because there's different distinct categories to have, anyway. I agree. And mostly black people.

SPEAKER_01: 47:30

I agree. Um I just like I believe that unless rural white folks suffer, nothing will change with this administration, right?

SPEAKER_00: 47:39

But they are suffering and they still ride and they still riding hard. I just saw something today. A whole there was a family business that had been in the family for over 50 years. It had to close because of the tariffs. The man said that because of Trump's tariffs that his business had to close. Most of his family is rural and white. But he said if he had to do it again, he's already voted for him three times, he would vote for him again. Because if it was between him and the other person, he couldn't vote for them. They have bought into the lies so much that they will again starve before they will have before they will uh vote for a black woman or a brown woman. It's the racism and the sexism together.

SPEAKER_01: 48:17

But listen, suffering in the short term is different than suffering in the long term, right? Like we're all gonna suffer in in this current administration in some capacity, but I don't think our suffering ever matters. Ever. You know this, it never matters.

SPEAKER_00: 48:34

I agree. But and this is something we should probably do another episode about, and I noticed that you liked it. I had already listened to it, but I saw that she posted something today, a clip from it, Tressy, Dr. Tressy Millencottam talking about, you know, basically she always talks about the litmus test for the United States is the the the the U.S. South, which I agree. But a lot of the rhetoric we talk about were like, well, it has to hope happen to poor whites before it's already happening in all these states. And they still going hard in the paint.

SPEAKER_01: 49:03

But I don't think it's not I don't think something happened over two or three months is suffering. I think it's a good thing. No, what I'm saying is, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 49:11

What I'm saying is some of them are already suffering under this kind of thinking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 49:16

I don't I mean, I don't disagree. I just don't think they believe.

SPEAKER_00: 49:18

So I don't I don't I don't I don't think I don't think white rule, southern people even suffering for a year is gonna change their thinking about joining the ranks until until the the until the people that are like like she said in the south that are already kind of in pro prox proximity to one another. Because the the truth of the matter is poor whites and poor blacks are more connected in the south than they are in other places.

SPEAKER_01: 49:47

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 49:48

So that's really I think that's the specific specificity we have to get to. Because I don't believe I know rural whites in Pennsylvania. They will be laid out on the street and it's still not gonna change. I think it's the ones that are in proximity together, like in the South, that are that can say, wait a minute. We we've been rocking, like we've been playing, like we've been rocking together, kind of like, and those are the ones that have to rise up. Because the ones that's just out in the middle of Iowa and all the other places, I don't think it's gonna make that much of a difference. Because they've been suffering. This is this ain't new. They've been suffering under Reagan, they've been suffering. It feels more acute, but they've been suffering.

SPEAKER_01: 50:25

I what I believe to be suffering and what they believe to be suffering, I think are not the same things. But we shall see. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 50:31

Listen, I I live in Appalachia. Pittsburgh is still Appalachia. I went to even graduate school with with white people who lived an hour and a half to 45 minutes away from here. They are suffering. Like there are kids in the mountains here, like not very not very far from here, who are are starving. Walking around like even in Pittsburgh, you can drive in certain parts of the city and you can see in the woods and see shacks and stuff. These are people I went to school with. People are actually literally suffering like back, like deep living in a shack, sharecropper suffering. It's happening.

SPEAKER_01: 51:11

I definitely think it's suffering, but when I hear them speak, they definitely don't speak in that language. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 51:18

But but when you but that's the that's the craziness of the indoctrination.

SPEAKER_01: 51:22

Yes, indoctrination does not believe in rationale at all.

SPEAKER_00: 51:26

So, so I like so what I'm saying is I totally agree with you, but like, especially the religious component of it, there are people who believe is a calling to suffer in this world.

SPEAKER_01: 51:38

Like I said, I stopped, I stopped following being Facebook friends with a Latina colleague who had become a Trumper, but I was like, you know, different beliefs. And then she started talking about how she was living in a trailer, how she didn't have, you know, anything to eat, and she's going on and on and on. But I still believe Trump is the best candidate. And I was like, oh, I said, yeah. There's no way that we do no way for us to come back from that, right? Like you are so stuck. Your children don't live with you, they had to move in with their dad. You're mad because they don't believe in your evangelical ways. You are literally starving and gonna freeze to death in the winter to prove a point. You gotta have at it.

SPEAKER_00: 52:26

And they're about to put this man out, and JD Vance is gonna be with the wheel. Oh, a thousand times worse. So, so and and and the religious rising uprising, this is my what I'm saying about the suffering piece. It's like suffering is a as a badge of honor if you believe that whiteness is holy.

SPEAKER_01: 52:42

I believe that. I believe they believe. That's the sad part. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and and and the other thing that's been in our group chat to this point is the black people who believe that holy is white, and they have lost their minds on the internet.

SPEAKER_00: 53:00

There are so many people who I was like, thank God. I I I'm glad that I'm like removed from that world because, you know, I was not in it like that, but close in proximity to a lot of that. And some of the people who are showing their behind on on the Instagrams, I was so happy to see the other day Yolanda Adams was talking about the more expansive things. I said, all right, sister girl, we we we love you, sister Ashley. Let me go, let me go pull up a Yolanda song.

SPEAKER_01: 53:27

Yes, let me go stream her, buy her some stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 53:30

The battles is is the Lord. Yes, absolutely. Because uh, yeah, because some of our faves, I'm sorry, I got, I mean, when that man, I don't even want to call, I don't want to reference his name, and I don't even like the whole idea of the idea of being assassinated because he was not that kind of figure. But with the some of the people I saw going hard in the paint behind that whole rhetoric about him being a man of God, I said, what book is y'all reading?

SPEAKER_01: 53:56

And these are from families that I love. Oh, yeah, we we I had to unfollow a lot of people because I was like, oh, I don't even need to see this on my timeline. I was like, I'll I'll see you at the you know family reunion or whatever, but I I don't have to be a part of this.

SPEAKER_00: 54:12

So this is this is why people like James Talarico get my money because he's a white man that looked like Opie from Texas that love who loves Jesus, but speaks truth to power and clearly has a liberation theology ethic about him. Those are the kinds of people I think have the possibility of turning, you know, of changing some hearts and minds.

SPEAKER_01: 54:37

Um uh Children's Defense Fund Texas gave him an award and he did the sweetest speech. It was so it was very special. I love him. That's my little nephew.

SPEAKER_00: 54:46

Yeah, he's good people. Um I I I I would definitely help him get in the Senate or wherever it's where he got to get in the Senate.

SPEAKER_01: 54:53

Yeah. I mean, I I definitely think that is one of the bright spots of this political moment is like these leaders who are kind of getting the the spotlight, who are you know showing another way, right? I I do think that I've been looking to some of the other countries that have multi-party systems, um, and just thinking about like what is it, what would it look like for the United States to become that? Um I mean, we had it before.

SPEAKER_00: 55:22

We can go back to where we were.

SPEAKER_01: 55:23

Yeah, let's go back.

SPEAKER_00: 55:26

Not go back all the way. A lot of stuff wasn't right, but I'm just saying we did have a multi-party system.

SPEAKER_01: 55:30

Yeah, but like in my lifetime, I don't I don't I don't even know what that looks like. But following people like the Working Family Party and others who are really lifting up more coalition-based ways of doing this work. Um, I think across all of my friends, we have all acknowledged that the Democratic Party is not the way. Um, but what is like what can we get behind? What can we get our energy behind, our resources behind to really um open up true possibility in this country?

SPEAKER_00: 56:05

Mm-hmm. And I would say, you know, the my framing of it is not the Democratic Party is not the way. The Democratic Party, Democratic Party as we know it is not the way. Um and I I and I I am all open for different parties and stuff. But if the same type of thinking just shows up in different parties, it's not gonna do us any good. So I I I think we can do both and I think we should I'm I I follow working family parties. I love the work that they're doing to organize folks um along the lines of the Democratic Party, pushing the Democratic Party. Um, but I still want us, those of us who have access, and I ain't one of them, but those of us who have access to the Democratic establishment to push them even harder. Um because, you know, they show they've been showing their ass tremendously. And then there are other things. Um there are other things that I see people do. Like I think Kamala Harris said that she's like, I we should have pushed more publicly. There are a lot of conversations that happen politically in those parties that they don't do publicly because, you know, it's a very much politics is very much like you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. And a lot of people we think are making compromises are actually fighting their ass off in the back and not in the front. We got to change how that whole system works because it's not serving the people. Because you don't serve each other, you serve the people.

SPEAKER_01: 57:21

I mean, that's what I told Jack. I said, you know, now that Munabe has been elected, the question is what can he get done, right? What type of compromises will he have to make with his values to be able to actually get anything put into policy? And so that becomes a true test, right? Like even in a multi-party system, like it it is about compromise. And so for those who back to that purism, for those who are about purism and that you can you're you're successful if you don't compromise our values, that may not, that may not be the way he wins some of the things that he's fighting for. So definitely a lot of curiosity about what's possible.

SPEAKER_00: 58:10

Plus one. And I will say this, um, I would like to see in the future. Um, it's been on my heart and mind recently to harken back to the Black Panther Party and the Books and Breakfast model. I think we are storely lacking in like solid political education. There are fractions, there are fractions of people I know who are doing that work, but a lot of times they're doing it in a bubble. Like, y'all already like mad, open, and understanding this stuff. So y'all just talking amongst yourselves. So, how do we make political education more accessible to more people, make it more open, and not be where like you getting cursed out by you know certain people because you lean a certain way. Um, I don't want to call certain people on IG, but some of the people, I'm like, y'all are this is not how political education works. Um, I think, and a shout out to he's a complicated figure, but I think this is some of the complicated energy that Mark Lamont Hill brings by being on the Joe Budden podcast, but also having his bookstore in Philly. And I don't know the ins and outs of why he does what he's do doing, but I never felt when I hear him speak about politics, which I don't hear about as much anymore, but I know he still does it. I don't I never felt a sense of judgment from him. Um, and I think that's why he attracts a lot of people. And there are people who I go in the comments of the Joe Button podcast and I see people who say, oh, Dr. Martin Hill, and they have reverence for him. So we may not like the fact that he's on the Joe Button podcast, but he's there for a reason because people see him and see how and they think he's smart. And if he says something and puts it behind a joker, like they're more likely to be drawn to it, as opposed to you get on there and saying, Y'all ain't this and y'all ain't that. I'm just not with that. Maybe I don't know if I'm old, but I just don't like that. Yeah. So that's just my plug. More books and breakfasts, more political education. And I'm not saying we have to acquiesce to people's foolishness, but I think we need to be more loving in our um having more show more loving kindness as we try to teach. And then also recognize that just because you woke don't mean that you got it all right either. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:18

Yes, to more loving kindness. I've been using the phrase loving accountability, um, that yes, we need accountability, but we don't have to cuss each other out to get it. We don't have to dehumanize each other. Um, and also like we get we can be open to other perspectives, it doesn't have to be always 100% aligned to What we think.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:40

Right. And we can, and that's also how we bring people to the other side. Now, if it's people that are trying to cancel other one's humanity in a very blatant way, then absolutely not. But there's sometimes things that seem obvious to you are not obvious to other people. Yeah, absolutely. So with that, we wait, we thought we had nothing to talk about, and we I could go on for hours. What are some of your takeaways for today so far?

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:04

Oh, um, definitely this theme around books and breakfast, right? Like building community, but also the political education feels really important, but also feels really accessible right now.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:16

Yeah. Um, I'm gonna plus one that and add on to this idea of we talk about this a lot in person, in the chat and on the pod, about this kind of weird black tax middle class position that we are in, trying to navigate a level of privilege, summering in Martha's Vineyard, throwing big birthday parties, and then trying to figure out how to like save properly for retirement and help those that we love, that whole thing. In the midst of all that, recognizing that the political is always personal and the personal is political, and how do I navigate my political education and what I want to see in the world through the lens of my own real life experiences? Yeah. Um, and not needing to feel guilty or having this survivor remorse, but being acknowledge my privilege and hold myself accountable. Um, but yeah, just just embracing that like my lens, I have a very specific lens for a reason and making sense of that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:15

But yeah, I'm thinking about books and breakfast. I I think there's something there that I want to watch out, act three, and all my friends, because yeah, I'm coming up with another yet another thing to do. I don't have time to do. It's okay, it'd be for the community.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:32

Awesome, very good. Well, y'all, let us know what you think in the comments. Uh, we will be sharing a bunch of links in the show notes, but thanks for listening in.