#22: Ray Lee - How AI Affects Art, Studying Internationally, and the Complexities of Concept Art

Ray Lee shares his journey from South Korea to the United States as a dedicated Concept Artist, revealing the challenges and triumphs he encountered along the way. He emphasizes the importance of mentorship, consistent practice, and self-care amidst the realities of entering the competitive gaming & entertainment industry and the impact of AI on art.

• Ray's early influences growing up in Korea and China
• The rigorous path to breaking into the art industry
• How military service help him develope resilience
• Impact of mentorship on Ray's career development
• The need for self-care and managing self-doubt
• Balancing tradition and innovation in the advent of AI
• Networking and building connections in the art community
• Final insights on consistency and motivation for aspiring artists

Guest bio:
Ray Lee is a Concept Artist/ Environment Concept Artist/ Digital Art Teacher in Los Angeles, California. He creates 2D Concept Art, including Environment, Props, Illustration, Logo, and Character design to professional standards, showing his design's problem-solving quality in the Game and Entertainment Industry. He has a passion for creating gaming universes that captivate players’ imaginations.

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rayleeart/
• Website: https://www.starlight-vision.com/
• IG: @rayleeart - https://www.instagram.com/rayleeart

Links/resources:

• The Art of Sky (wiki page for mobile game)

Transcript

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J.R. 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of 1000 Gurus with me , your host , jr Yonacruz .

J.R. 0:05

Today's guest is Ray Lee . Ray Lee is a concept artist , environment concept artist and digital art teacher in Los Angeles , california . He creates 2D concept art , including environment props , illustration , logo and character design to professional standards , showing his designs problem-solving quality in the game and entertainment industry . He has a passion for creating gaming universes that captivate players' imaginations , so this was a very insightful episode and a great peek into the game and entertainment world , specifically in concept art . I've known Ray for almost two years now and he has such a unique story that we only barely scratched the surface in this recording . But one thing I really admire about Ray is his persistence in pursuing the field and , as he mentions , it's very tough to get into . We chat about his own journey , as well as some tips on how to break into the industry , and then we also talk about how AI affects art industries like his own . The goal of this podcast is always to learn about fields we might not normally be exposed to , and this conversation definitely hit the mark for that objective . So , without further ado , please enjoy this episode with Ray Lee .

Interview Start

J.R. 1:07

Hello everyone , and welcome back to 1000 Gurus . Today's guest is Ray Lee . Audience applause . All right , ray , thanks for being here . I really appreciate it . I know it's , yeah , I know it's last minute , but I'm excited to have you on as my first game and entertainment design . Artist concept artist .

J.R. 1:28

Yes , yeah , there's a lot of different words in there , so I don't want to mess it up , but you'll know what it is by the end of this . So I just want to go into first how I know you . We met through our mutual friend , shasia , your former housemate , who also helps manage social media for my channel . Shout out to shasia . And so we've known each other for I want to say , over a year , less than two , yeah , something like that . And then you graduated from otis last year , yes , and you invited all of us , all of my dance team , to your art showcase , which is really great to see everyone else's stuff too , and then see the school . And then you sometimes help out , um , come to our filmings for our dance team and stuff like that . So it's , we appreciate having you there . Um . Any other clarifications you want to add or well , I mean , that's pretty straightforward .

Ray 2:12

Yeah , I just really feel grateful to be here today and then , like whenever I offer you guys to be , like , stop by my art show , you guys been there . Yeah , I just feel grateful , nice cool , all right .

J.R. 2:24

First topic , if we just want to jump straight into it , is origin story , which is normally what I go into first . So this one I want to ask you for the audience main topic is where you grew up , main influences , catalysts that led you down the path to work as a concept artist in the gaming and entertainment industry . Basically , just to connect the dots from right , like the main things that influenced you growing up to where you are now you want to share with the

Growing up in SK and Studying Abroad

J.R. 2:50

audience .

Ray 2:50

Yeah sure , I was born in south korea , in seoul , which is the biggest city in korea , and I lived there until I was like first grade and I had the opportunity to move to china , in nanjing , with my family because my dad was had the award opportunity over there in his company and that's how I start to being exposed to the a lot of cultural diversities and also like different people , like outside of the korea and that's how I start to get like a little bit interest in the art .

Ray 3:26

I was just like normal kids . Normal kids , like just told , just have no thoughts . But somehow the art , especially like a like mac design , which is like a robot design , is like grabbing towards to me , to I want to do this kind of like design or drawing , but I have no idea to how to approach it in a professional way . So I always just have a like simple idea of I want to be a just creating the robot . So that's how I start to aiming to the concept artist in the end .

Ray 3:58

But it has a little bit of the journey . So I started with like thinking about , should I be an engineer ? Because I was kid , I don't have any like knowledge . So I was like engineer because I was a kid , I don't have any like knowledge . So I was like , oh sure , I was just trying to look for the engineer . So I was a little bit like studying a little bit math stuff and like middle school and high school and I realized when I was trying to apply to the university engineer is not really meant for designing . It was meant for the functionality . So I found it out there is an industrial design major that actually designed the external like design and actually think about the functionality at the same time so that's how I start to getting more serious about the art .

Ray 4:37

When I was in high school I think it was around freshman year and also that was the time I also got back to korea because I think , because of the family situation , so we ended up like staying in china like almost like seven to eight years in total and then moved back to korea and that's how I start to be more study about my future and what I wanted to be , and that's how I started to know about the industrial design . In high school then I went to like different , like after school , like studio , to practice and learning about the industrial design . But actually the korea art college entrance or university is pretty much different than in the states , because they require the student to take the exam , which is like four hours it will probably different than nowadays and they always give a kind of topic and you have to render the image exactly same , with a slight bit of the composition , with a limited amount of the composition , with the limited amount of the medium art medium they provide , which will be a post color or watercolor color pencil . That's pretty much it . So it was really boring .

Ray 5:56

To be honest , I didn't really love to practice , but I have the , the goal that I want to be like designing the robot . So I thought this is like a step stone for me to get over it . So I was like investing a lot of time to be like past the exam . But unfortunately , when it's the time I took the test , I got on the wait list on the college and I couldn't get make it in the final . So that was the time I was like already made my mind I should study abroad if I have a chance . I was having a discussion with my parents and I was . Thankfully , my parents allowed me to prepare the board like art colleges and the estates , which is like oldest college that I graduated , and there's another like great art college called the art center college . So I was applied those two college in the end and I got accepted both of them .

Ray 6:53

But I realized I have a mandatory military service as a korean citizenship . So I was like you know what ? I will go to the otis because it's close to the airport and they have a dorm .

Ray 7:08

That was pretty simple reason oh , I see , yeah , and that's how I went ended up going to the otis other than the art center . I was like pretty enjoyed the freshman year , like in oldest , because it was , everything was so new . Yeah , and I was being my by myself first time in my life and I'm only like pursuing art and art related like classes . I think that was like for me it's like a playground .

J.R. 7:38

So so then , like you so going from like , from when you're younger , it seemed like you were always drawn to like art , and not so much , like you said , like engineering or like functionality , but more like design but you think that's just how your brain works .

Ray 7:54

I really want to create art as opposed to like more of a science sort of major yeah , I think because whenever I see the like car design outside on the street or some kind of like a gadget that we are using for fixing something , I just like thinking about . This design looks very cool , but I want to break it down in a logical way and I want to make it my style . That's how I start to get like interesting and it's like you're always intrigued with like design of different things yeah , it makes sense .

J.R. 8:25

So then you said so , you said you went to otis . Was that before your military service ? Yes okay , so then you went to otis and then military , and then you came back to otis . Yes , oh , okay , I didn't know that . I always thought , and so otis was is it considered undergraduate or yes , they are okay . So you did undergraduate for how long ? At Otis ?

Ray 8:44

Four years , four years , and then you did military for two years , yes , two years , and then plus with the one year of the pandemic COVID . Oh , and then you came back for the graduate program no it's almost like continuing the undergrad program . So I finished my freshman year before the military .

J.R. 9:01

Then I got back as the sophomore year to like finish my BFA like program Okay , so how many years is that ?

Ray 9:10

Total , yeah , total , and you mean including the military .

J.R. 9:12

Oh , I guess , if you subtract the military , how much is school ?

Ray 9:15

Oh , just four . Okay , so four total . Okay , gotcha .

J.R. 9:25

So you just finished the four years maybe this isn't real or maybe not . A lot of people who are listening to this know what korean military services . Yes , I mean , we hear about it . I guess my friends and I we know that we follow k-pop artists and they have their military service and it's like a deadline for them

Korean Military Service

J.R. 9:34

to do their entertainment stuff in the military . So I don't know if you can give like an overview or a tldr of what korean military services and then maybe how that affected you or how that affected your career , if at all , or just give us a look into what it's like .

Ray 9:47

I think overall , the military service gave me a life lesson to how to like adjust myself in a very different environment that I don't want it to be like keep getting exposed to the community or the people they are not really like you but we have to stick together for two years .

J.R. 10:09

Like working with different people Exactly Different environments .

Ray 10:12

It actually taught me a lot of different types of like social skills to like working with the other people in a different situation and the background situation . And the background , because inside the military it doesn't matter where you were before or what's your job before it doesn't matter yeah , everyone's just even equal , exactly everyone's same . I think that was a unique experience for me to understand person to person . That was a really great like point of view me to having in my life right now .

Ray 10:44

Actually that helps me to start to understand myself a little bit more , because whenever I interact with the like limited amount of people , I can see the pattern of my actions and my thoughts , but that actually give me a kind of signal , I'll say , to tell me like , oh , this is your one of the bad character you should like they don't point it out , but they will say in a different way . But I have to filter out to understand oh , this is the one that I need to like figure out by myself . But honestly , it took me a lot of time .

Ray 11:19

I think I realized in the end of the almost end of the military service , like in in the beginning , in the middle , I was more like into myself , like a little bit more self-centered . So I was like it's like weird to hearing this from like people around me . I don't want to be here . But I realized if I have more negative mindset , I can't do anything outside of the military too . So I figure out to be keep myself busy in the military , because military means like everything is unified and you have to do the same , like work hour and everything . But there's always way you could sign up for like individual contests you want . Like , for example , I participate on like creating the idea about the military , like mobile application , like contest ideas , stuff . I also did that by myself , so I actually had a little bit more extra time to study and also in the military ?

Ray 12:17

yeah , in the military , okay so they actually provide you those type of opportunities . Yeah , you can like work by yourself or you actually volunteer to going for , like translating the english or some of the events inside the military . Yeah , I think that kind of helps me to keep it busy inside , other than I just regret myself to be inside the military and then just spending time as like how not every people but some of people who spend just it feels like regretful way like they're wasting time or something right , they just like spending their day .

Ray 12:50

What other people told to do ?

J.R. 12:53

oh I see is it , would you say it's difficult . I don't know what it's like , I know there's like a military . It seems like physical component right like maybe you need to . There's you need to be in shape and athletic to a certain degree , but also there's a lot of , like you said , uniform stuff . Maybe you're doing like I don't know office administrative type stuff . I don't know what that's like .

Ray 13:15

Of course everyone have their own like assigned position For me . I was originally signed up as the culinary like specialist , so I was supposed to be like participate on cooking for everyone in my base . Oh , I see . But since my background was kind of unique , so one of my officer offered me to go to the different like position temporarily inside the base .

J.R. 13:37

That kind of allows , so you can like a little bit twisted , even if it's you already have assigned position yeah , so I was working as a , so , like they , can they assign you sort of based on what your background is yeah okay they can like use some of the people for in a like .

Ray 13:54

It's kind of weird to say better way , but it's more on their like , using their skills right like a more effective use of that person yeah , and then participate on their like base performance and everything . Yeah , so I was assigned as the one of human resource specialist , okay , so I can actually manage the document and plus , sometime I get the opportunity to doing the english translate or some of the military event that I can be like , speak out loud , but yeah , those kind of stuff yeah quick backtrack tangent .

J.R. 14:25

But you said you lived in china for six years yeah , almost like six seven do you speak chinese or mandarin or something ?

Ray 14:32

not anymore , as how I was used to be , so you did a little bit yeah just like the same . It's like more you can .

J.R. 14:40

It's like a middle school ish like Like maybe conversational , but just get around .

Ray 14:45

Yeah , or for just studying purpose , because when I was in international school in China , they have amended classes every hour to take a Chinese class , so we have to study and take an exam . Luckily , I could expose to more Chinese to learn in a better way , but after I like left to China , I had less time to speak or study about it .

Ray 15:10

Also , I didn't have the passion to like keep the language level right right right , but right now I can only listen and have a little bit of the speaking level that I can like , bare minimum traveling around to .

J.R. 15:21

China , so you can at least understand when people are talking yeah , gotcha , that's cool , okay . So , um , it's time to pivot a little bit or at least go into now the meat of the conversation , which is your expertise , which is , um , game and entertainment design . I know just to connect it . You mentioned , you know , what you learned from military is like adapting and being in different environments , and then a wholeher topic could be like you moving to the States and adapting to that , and we've talked personally about that experience . But now you are in the game and entertainment design industry and one of the topics you wanted to talk about was what the field is like

Game & Entertainment Design Industry

J.R. 15:57

, what you've learned , what is it like being an international Korean student and then breaking into the industry ? Are there any parts of that you want to start with ?

Ray 16:06

first , I can start with the like as a student point of view . Yeah , of course , this industry is very challenging for everyone , including me , because game entertainment design industry required the artist to be a almost semi-perfect general artists . Because it involves the fashion design knowledge , graphic design and some of the industrial design , transportation design , product design , so and plus with the liberal of the illustrations , so everything has to be like merged in one spot it's like a combination of all those different exactly that's crazy actually , now that you put it that way , like wait , you do need to know all those , you can't ?

J.R. 16:46

just I like to color right no you have to know design for a lot of different things exactly .

Ray 16:50

So you have to understand the art aspect and the design aspect at the same time to create your work . So that's why this industry has the like really high bar . Of course other industry also have the high bar , but for this one is it's pretty tough for the art students to actually aiming for becoming a professional artist , and I think , as a korean as a korean male for sure , not the female people . But we have to consider about the mandatory military service , because a lot of people go to art college abroad around their 20s . So most of the people didn't figure out their military service . So we have to a little bit set up the plan .

Ray 17:33

Do I want to pursue my career in the States or do I want to just go back to Korea to pursue my career ? I think that's how we begin . Probably there are people who just want to go back after they earn their degree , or there's people wanting to gain the experience and looking for the future opportunity more in the States . So for me it was like the second one . So after I choose that path , I have to try to make some of the connection . Thankfully , I had the big opportunity to meet my current mentor , who taught me all the skill and all the knowledge to build my art skill where I'm at right now . I think that was the biggest help for me to get into this industry in a very smooth way , because and otherwise we have to spend a lot of time to find out the mentor or find out the people who are in the industry to get some of the information that is very crucial before you actually preparing yourself to be like wanting to be a concept artist so there's a high bar .

J.R. 18:44

I'm just rephrasing everything . So there's a very high bar it's very difficult to break into and then , as a korean international student or a korean male korean citizen , you have to consider your long-term sort of career path , how you want to deal with that . But also you're mentioning that having a mentor was huge for you to guide you through that process because it's so challenging and difficult .

Ray 19:03

Right , and to get you to guide you through that process because it's so challenging and difficult right and to get you to where you are now , and I think after I met my mentor , it was everything was pretty , like I'll say it's not easy , but everything was like , not like blind spot for me , like I know where I should go based on what he already went through .

J.R. 19:24

So there's clarity , it's not easy but at least you have an idea of where to go .

Ray 19:28

Yeah , exactly .

J.R. 19:29

I was going to ask you what are some of the biggest takeaways you learned from your mentor to breaking into the industry .

Ray 19:35

I think the constancy

Insights to Break Into the Industry

Ray 19:37

of practicing myself , the art skill and , plus with you , take care of yourself well . I think those two aspects is very important as the artist , because even if you , even if I , participate on the commercial art base , still it's an art , so it also impact by the our emotions and our thoughts , so we need a good amount of the mind controlling . So I think that aspect I learned a lot from him while I'm like having a mentorship class with him , and then he also gave me a feedback which is actually he can tell through my like practice assignment that I like how I was thinking and how I felt in that way .

J.R. 20:26

So , yeah , I think that's why I think those two , like mindset , is very important so you said consistency , so like continuously practicing and like building your art and getting better . But also you said taking care of yourself is important . Yes , like in taking care of yourself . In what way ?

Ray 20:44

more . Do not doubt about yourself you know . Okay , that is very important for everyone , for sure . But when you doubt yourself a lot as the artist , you start to like , forget about like how to draw weird experience , and then people call that as like art block it's like a yeah , it's a block , like a mind block exactly writer's block like choreo block , every block right all people who are participating the art like aspect have those like struggling experience .

Ray 21:12

So if you wanted to prevent that , you have to take care of yourself . Oh , it's just , you're at the moment of trying to get better and then it is hard to see the progress , the result of the progress like , right after you practice . So you have to keep trusting yourself that you will get in better , but keep aware that it's am I going in the right direction or not ? So that's why having a mentor was a great experience for me .

J.R. 21:42

My question was maybe you answered it but like , how does someone overcome that self-doubt , and so you ? I think you just said right , it's having the faith that you're trusting yourself , but also that going , getting guidance , that you're going the right direction , but also reflecting and also taking care of your like your yourself in general . Is there anything else that you would recommend on how to eliminate that self-doubt or keep moving forward ?

Ray 22:05

I think you have to trying to find out your way to get rid

Managing Stress, Finding Your Motivation, and Networking

Ray 22:11

of the stress okay because a lot of people have a different way to get rid of the stress right . Some people like to go for dancing class , even if they're artists , or some people like to go for hiking or running or just walking outside on the street .

Ray 22:26

For me , I like to walk around the street because that kind of helps me to tracking down my like emotion . I think I learned this knowledge from one of the book I forgot what it was , but it was talking about . The skandavian people are used to go for a walk when they get emotional and then they just keep walking until they feel like their emotion is settled . And once they feel like their emotion is settled , they turn back and then walking back exactly how they walk .

J.R. 23:01

So the same path , yeah , until they're done . They're like now they're . Then they turn around and do the whole thing back gotcha , and so you can reflect yourself .

Ray 23:07

Why did I feel this ? So much like angry , or why did I feel so struggle ? I think that helps me to go for a walk in that aspect okay , I want to go back to .

J.R. 23:19

I think we you really gave a lot of good advice in general , like , as an artist , how to overcome those blocks and stuff like that . Do you have any specific advice that you've learned or insights along the way that helped you to break into the industry ? Or I know you mentioned preparing a concept art portfolio . Maybe what has helped you the most or what is one big advice you'd give to someone who wants to break into the industry ?

Ray 23:42

I think that's really a good question For me .

Ray 23:45

I think , one important thing that I can mention in the beginning will be trying to find your motivation to want to become a concept artist .

Ray 23:57

Do you really want to be a concept artist or are you just pursuing the unicorn of yourself of being an artist ? Because I think this is what I heard from people in the industry that there's two students if they have to teach , like they said , the first one will be have like great amount to gift it and they're good at working , like practicing everything , but they don't have motivation . But the second student has the huge motivation but doesn't have any skill and surprisingly , they will take the second student because the motivation is the where no one could make them to be like motivated to keep pursuing the art career by themselves . So that's why I think , trying to find out your core motivation , why you want to be a concept artist in the game industry , then I think you could find a way to get to the professional level in a different like path I like that a lot , so self-awareness know , what motivates you , know why you're in the industry , and that'll take you far .

J.R. 25:05

And if not , you're like wait , maybe I'm not motivated . Maybe I should try to pivot somewhere else , that's . I think that's really good advice anything else on , so I want to . The next topic that I want to pivot to is the impact of ai on game and entertainment design industry .

Ray 25:22

But any other last thoughts on just in general , like breaking into the industry or any lessons that you learn you want to touch on I think the one of the big lesson is you have to be pro active once you are about to get graduated or even if you're in a college year , trying to get keep touch with your not only a school people .

Ray 25:43

You're trying to go through the linkedin like professional website or art station which is professional , like community for the concept artists or animation industry people . You could visit there and then trying to comment on their work , or you can send a private message to them to get it understand about what's going on in the industry . Most of people will be like friendly . Some people are very busy so they will probably forget to respond to you back . But don't get discouraged , trying to be like proactive and be nice to people out there , because even to your like friends next to you in the college , because in the end you don't know , your friends will work in the different industry or maybe your friends can't get the job faster than you so they might have the recommendation to you later . So that's why the connection is the key point so .

J.R. 26:38

So persistence and finding those opportunities , being proactive , but also building a network . Be nice , don't burn bridges , obviously , because you never know where that one connection could open a door opportunity for you . Exactly Nice , I like it , all right . So now moving on to

The Impact of AI on Art

J.R. 26:56

AI . So , like I mentioned before we started , recording is , let's say , let's assume that maybe most people don't really know the impacts or what AI is in art and on specifically on your industry . Maybe a general exposure to AI is oh , now we're seeing all these weird AI generated art images online and obviously that's directly in your industry , right , because you do design art . I wanted to ask the first question is could you , like , paint a picture I guess pun intended for what the industry looks like or what ai is ? How does that look like in your industry ?

Ray 27:33

I think it's . Of course , everyone will have a different like thoughts , but what I hear from my people in the industry and what I experience , it's more like 60 , 40 , like 64 people who are trying to keep the human actually participating on creating the pre-production work , which is like concept work , and for these we should adapt , as part of the tools , tools to reduce the amount of the time that we have to spend on the pre-production time so we can actually make a better quality and better work .

Ray 28:09

I think that's the two opinion right now in the industry .

J.R. 28:12

That makes a lot of sense . So I guess , if I'm understanding this correctly , let's say the 40% is saying well , we have scientific calculators , might as well use it to help with the process of the pre-production design work . But you're saying 60 are like no , let's keep ai out of it and let's keep the human side of it for the pre-production work where I don't know where do you personally fall on that ? Do you think that it's more of a hindrance or do you think it would help ?

Ray 28:35

for art . I think it depends on the situation , Because the reason why a lot of people are doubt about the AI like open resources , like those systems because they can actually paint and then create a different visual reference or creating one game . However , they cannot reach the level of actually designing or creating the design variation for the certain like nda , like game ip that's what like a lot of people think about because we can purchase the database from like open ai resource company because it's meant for open . So it's hard to keep it as nda because eventually the machine will expose in a sort of way to the public when everyone's are using it in the same database so like the NDA art side of it , like the ownership of that art is compromised by using AI in that sort of sense , like open source right .

J.R. 29:34

I guess that that makes a lot of sense , because I was going to ask what are the downsides of using AI for pre-production work , anything else on how it's currently affecting the industry . So you said there's two schools of thought , but how does that affect you as someone in the industry or people going into the industry ? What are the main considerations for how it's shifting ?

Ray 29:55

I think , since one of the strong tools , the new tool which is AI . Ai has a great like painting skill , which means for the art concept artists it's required you to you have better painting quality like than the ai , because ai will quickly paint it for you like a mood painting , but you have to paint on top of the ai painting to finalize the painting in the end and then including your design language inside .

Ray 30:25

So I think that also brings up the bar more higher than before .

Ray 30:31

That's why it's more tough for getting a job out there and especially for a lot of game companies run by a different investor and I think a lot of investors are trying to the different investor and I think a lot of investor trying to invest the like the budget during the covid season because a lot of people can't go outside , so most of people looking for a way to like spending their time inside , like their house , so a lot of people actually play a lot of different games .

Ray 30:56

So that's how the business people might thought it would be a great idea to invest the money to earn the profit . But in the end , after like the covid pandemic goes down a little bit and people started going back to where they were before , now it's for them it's like kind of question mark and then , plus with the ai , like just got off from the public and now they think that the game takes like almost like 6 years to develop to make a triple A game quality . Is it worth it to investing so much money on the artist or pre-production people to create the one triple A title game . So I think that's why there's less job market and also it requires a lot of skill and that end up doesn't have a lot of junior position or mid-level position in the game industry .

J.R. 31:52

Oh , I see . So the skill level or the bar for skill is higher , so there's less job opportunities . But also , like you said , the gaming industry shrank after covid after all the investors . I had a friend on lyndon who was on episode six talking about the game industry and I was like , yeah , the covid , all the investors are putting money into the gaming industry and then , after it died out , that's shrunk up again and so you're saying like the bar is higher but there's also less money into it . So I guess what considerations would you give for someone who's interested in going into the industry ? I know you're saying that it's a higher bar , so definitely be prepared to learn more skills , be even better . You have to in order to break in . Any other considerations for people who want to be in the industry ?

Ray 32:32

I think it connects to the thought where I said before . It's like you need the constancy and your motivation , which means you have to spend a lot of time on practicing the fundamental art skills to actually creating your own like art portfolio , because in the end you might like love to do certain like game ip that you wanted to work in that game studio , however , you need to learn about the fundamental art skills , which is illustration skill , design skills .

Ray 33:04

That has to be like very fluent , like inside your body , so it's like muscle memory , so you don't have to be struggle every time you're doing the new project . You have to be always like ready to go . So I think that's why the constancy and your motivation is the key point to prepare yourself to apply for the job in the industry right now .

J.R. 33:23

Okay , so consistency and motivation , but also like patience too , because I'm sure it'll take a long time . Oh , yeah , absolutely I mean you could get lucky , obviously but , it's crazy .

J.R. 33:32

Through this conversation I'm realizing now that as much as people say like art and science or like technical and artistic industries but it seems like your industry is very much also very technical because there's so many things you need to learn about it . You can't just pick up a paintbrush and just make something . It's there's also so much that goes into it , especially in your industry . So I feel like there , I don't know , I feel like there should be a deep appreciation for that . But all not only that , but if you're using ai as a tool for that work , it is like at least half technical , which is kind of crazy . But I guess that my thoughts are that it would ideally make the industry better I guess as an end product for a consumer .

J.R. 34:18

But I'm just thinking out loud okay , that's crazy , because the bar is getting higher . There's better tools , so maybe you can be more efficient . But I guess , as someone in the industry , you're like okay , well , it's also harder , but you can break in . You just have to be consistent and whatnot ? Motivated .

Ray 34:33

I think as the current junior level of the

Importance of Foundational Art Skill

Ray 34:36

concept artist , I think you have to be a very strong about your fundamental art skill again because in the end some of the major company are attempt to using the ai program to develop their own game ip . But that means are you are ready to like paint over on the ai's work to make it better than ai . That's the big assignment for the current like concept artists . So most of like mid and senior level people already like prepared , it's like part of their job , so it's not a big of like issue for them . Of course they'll get a lot of stress because they get less appreciated about their work because even if they have a really good amount of the good quality and plus with the speed of the work , a lot of people like on the top side , people who are deciding the business and everything , will think that why does it take you so long ? Can you make it a little bit more faster ?

J.R. 35:34

yeah , because everyone couldn't know yeah everyone could know each people's story .

Ray 35:46

So that's why I think it's better to be better than the AI . It is hard , but once you're focusing on the fundamental art skills , there will always be a way for you to get better .

J.R. 35:56

But I think that's the most challenging part for everyone , or , as the junior level people I see all right anything else on on the impact of ai and game and entertainment design industry or any considerations for the audience or even in general for breaking in again . There might be people out there who are like really intrigued and they want to break in , but now it's the advice is it's hard right ? But , work on your foundational art skill , obviously because that's very important as an artist . So I don't want to make it sound so bleak , but that's just the reality of it right .

Ray 36:30

Any other insights that you , or topics or insights you want to touch on in there that you feel like is important

Three Art Stylizations to Choose From

Ray 36:35

I think , if I break it down a little bit precise way , I'll say so if you decide to be a like concept artist in the game industry , then you have to find out like kind of big two things . One is like a little bit easy way to say , but like yours , not your art style , like what kind of stylization of the work that you want to pursue in your portfolio . For example , for me I like to do my little bit like cute and chibi , but which is japanese term ? It's like really small size , like sd characters , like environment or like character or prop design for the mobile game industry . That's the one of the stylization . And the one is , like a lot of people will know , like riot games , blizzard entertainment , like the game style , like graphical style is the kind of like a semi-realistic we count as a semi-realistic stylization . And then after the hyper-realistic one is like a call of duty or naughty dogs , like games .

Ray 37:40

Those like three is the thing that you have to decide which one you are more interested and if you choose one from there it'll be all depends if you choose the riot games or blizzard entertainment , like our style , or the mobile game , our style you have to be really good at like handly , like digital paint , so , which requires a lot of fundamental art skills . That will be just bare minimum . So , which is unfair for the junior level artists , because junior level , which means , like you can have opportunity to learn from the work environment , but this environment is always like fast paced environment , so it requires you to be ready to go candidly . So I think that's the the key part . And if you wanted to go to naughty dog or more hyper realistic , like a film filming style , then you have to understand about how to edit the photo they call as a photo bashing oh , I see skills .

Ray 38:35

Basically , you still need the fundamental art skill again , but you know how to manipulate all different type of photo that you find on the online and you make a one object . It could be a character , it could be a marmon , it could be a props it depends on what you're working , but that's the another path that you have to choose . So that's like how you break down the strategy in the end and then that's how you will create your portfolio based on that path oh , I see .

J.R. 39:04

Yeah , so it is like a choose your character , choose your career path and you go down that career path but there's , like you said , the three sort of major areas . Yeah , then you pick that sort of pathway , design style and then you figure out there's different skill sets but , like you said , your foundational art skills are important , but but along the path you learn deviate , different skill sets as well yes gotcha .

J.R. 39:28

It's interesting , I didn't know that , but that makes a lot of sense . Um , cool , anything else , before we go on to rapid fire questions , last little tidbits of nuggets you feel would be , I think .

Ray 39:41

I just hope people don't get like um easily give up .

J.R. 39:45

It's too late , they're already they change majors .

Ray 39:49

They're like oh this ray dude , I'm changing my major as a first year it's just if you have a good enough of the motivation and you will get there . But it is tough , like it is tough for me right now , because I also work as digital art teacher . Right now I'm not like directly working in the game industry , but I'm still seeking for the opportunity , but I just put myself out there trying to get like close to exposed to the game industry . Of course , education , our education and the game is definitely a different field , but it's like you expose yourself to doing the art as your . It could be a part-time or it could be a contract , still working on the art , but on the side , trying to enjoy what you are , working like your art , practicing by yourself , because once you get out from the school , of course you have all the freedom , yeah , but there is a where you get tested by yourself . Are you willing to be a artist ? Did you really had that motivation , as before ?

J.R. 40:50

yeah , you motivated to go out there now that you're on your own gotcha yeah , no , that's good . I appreciate that , especially hammering home , like the main ideas you're saying . Which is what's your motivations and can you be consistent enough ? Okay , ready for

Rapid Fire Questions

J.R. 41:04

rapid fire ? Yeah , nice , this is the fun part . All right , so first question , billboard question . If you could put up a sign for millions of people to see , what would it say ?

Ray 41:13

Kind of difficult question for me .

J.R. 41:16

Hire me , just kidding . Honestly , that works too to to be honest , I'm a little bit like want it to work yeah , is it , you can that can be your answer , if you want , and then a picture of your face with chibi character yeah , my portfolio website hyperlink like or like a qr code yes nice , cool , we'll go with that . Then , what is one of the hardest challenges you faced in your life and what did you learn from it ?

Ray 41:43

I think having a decision whenever you take a big step it could be not a big step when I turn it back and look around , it was a part of the journey . I think the way I decide myself to should I finish the high school in China as the international student or do I want to go back to Korea , which is totally different , like education environment more intense , Asian education system is more intense , and then you have an actual true friend . What I mean by true friend is like when I was in China everyone's from different countries , so eventually you don't have actual friends . You can see them often or later after you graduate the school .

Ray 42:35

It's more like everyone's living their own life in a different country , like a little temporary sort of , yeah , and it will be very like hard to like keep in touch either each other , even if we have , like social media and everything . Yeah , that's why I decided to go to high school in korea other than I just like pursuing to finish the high school program in china and then I actually earned a lot of friendship and then experience how to like being in an intense , like education environment to be survived , which is have a mentality , I think , like whenever something is like hits on me , I have , I can be like ready myself to be OK , this is the moment , so let's take a deep breath and then let's go for it .

J.R. 43:23

I think those mindset so the challenges helped you build that mindset , gotcha . Next one is self-inflicted wound . Do you have a story about something that's gone wrong in your life ? That's your own fault and you can't blame anyone because you did it to yourself ?

Ray 43:42

own fault and you can't blame anyone because you did it to yourself .

Ray 43:44

I think right now I don't feel like too embarrassed anymore , but when I was in china I couldn't even speak any english at all , like at all , like I couldn't even spell alphabet in the order . So I was very like numbed and overwhelmed in the new environment and I think at the time racism and a lot of unfortunate thing was , I'll say , semi-default . It was not a major issue as how it is right now . The school was counting me as oh , this student has language disorder , so we have to put the student to the special class , like special care needs student class . But I think the approach was very like awkward for me , even if I think about it right now because whenever we finish the the homeroom like time , they call me out in front of the student and then they take me to the special care needs student classroom . But that classroom location is also a question mark because it's fully see-through , like glass door , if I have to put it in a little bit bad way I'll say like a zoo .

Ray 44:52

Oh , I see , yeah , and it's located in the middle of the hallway , because my international school was like from kindergarten to high school , so it's like a big hallway , like a company . So that's why for me it was very embarrassing and constantly getting overwhelmed and a lot of kids in that age are not understanding what is wrong and right Most people just follow . What other people ? Are saying a lot of classmate was , yeah , being mean and then talking about like bad things about me , like that you're not really good at studying .

J.R. 45:26

Yeah , like especially from the korean community back in the time was it something that you did to yourself , or is that what ?

Ray 45:32

you're , I'll say I should study more hard if I put my myself a little bit more in a harsh way . Oh yeah , okay yeah .

J.R. 45:38

So you're like , okay , I probably should have studied more , but it was in a very embarrassing and bad situation for you .

Ray 45:43

I was already pressured by being embarrassed . Yeah , gotcha . If you could redo one thing what would you do differently ? That's a really good question , because I was trying to think about that before , but when I realized I think is that really important to like redo something ? Or going back in the past and then thinking about it , yeah .

J.R. 46:07

So let's say you had to redo something as a thought experiment , because most of my guests are the same . They're like I bad things happen but I'm so glad for it , because now I'm the way I am , but as a thought experiment if you could redo something , what would you redo ?

Ray 46:20

If I really have to choose it , I'll say I want to practice art a little bit more earlier , when I was younger . Sooner , when I was even in China , I should just doodle something . Oh , I see , just keep myself drawing something .

J.R. 46:35

Oh , okay , you didn't start drawing or doing art until later .

Ray 46:38

Yeah , Actually I started practicing after drawing and stuff was from freshman year in high school .

J.R. 46:45

Oh , I see that makes sense . If you could give your younger self advice

Advice: Be Honest

J.R. 46:49

, what would it be now ? Any age , any time period , I'll say be honest , from like how young ? Or just any time young .

Ray 46:59

Any time , honestly , I'll say any age . I just want to see me honest and then true to yourself . I think that's the two part that I want to tell to my old age nice .

J.R. 47:13

Is that because you feel like you weren't really as honest as you wanted to be when you're younger ?

Ray 47:17

oh , yeah , I did . Yeah , I was because I was always get overwhelmed by the fact that how I get evaluated in the public , I think the big of trigger was like how I experienced in international school in the first place was like triggering me a lot . I tend to hype myself a lot , like at that point I didn't really know who I am . I just wanted to represent myself as just like decent , good person , good friend , and then I didn't really think about do I actually need this or is it really necessary ? It's more like for surviving purpose .

J.R. 47:55

So you felt like you had to look good , be decent , presentable , but you felt like you were putting up a mask or something yeah , you weren't being as honest as you wanted to be right , that makes sense . In the last few years , what new belief , behavior or habit has improved your life ?

Ray 48:11

thing , there's a lot of things for me , but one of the biggest thing was is actually understanding about myself a little bit more in a deeper level , because I tend to have a lot of emotional disconnection about myself because of , like , where am I at ? Because most of the time I didn't really stay in the one physical environment . I was being in a different country always , always exposed in different society , so that's why I was like I don't have time to feel about this at that moment . The emotion that is hitting me .

Ray 48:47

For example , whenever I left the country or left the place , I didn't feel sad , because I always talk to myself I don't have time to be sad .

J.R. 48:56

You're always , constantly , moving doing something , so you have no time to feel that . So what was the ? You said the behavior or belief was sorry . What was it again ?

Ray 49:05

um , it's more be I'll say like transparent with myself , okay yeah , how does one be more transparent with themselves ?

J.R. 49:15

let's say I'm asking as a person okay , I want to be okay , I want to be more transparent , I want to be more honest . How does one become more honest ?

Ray 49:21

I think there's a point where you realize that , oh , I'm doing the bad thing over again . At that moment I think I just swallow the words or I just pause myself and then I feel very awkward myself , A little bit cringe or something . Oh , I see .

J.R. 49:41

You can feel it when you yeah , not being like completely honest or transparent .

Ray 49:44

Yeah , it's like more hefty the sense and if that hits me and I just pause myself , wait a minute . I was like if I do this again , it'll be same again . And then , even if that makes me well , if I , even if that will makes me embarrassed at that moment , I just let it be , even if that makes me embarrassed at that moment .

J.R. 50:02

I just let it be . I see it's like being more aware of yourself , your intuition , what you do and what you say , how it makes you feel Right , and then taking a pause to reflect on that . I like it . Who would you call successful and how do you define success ?

Success: Being a Reliable "Dad"

Ray 50:18

Wow , that's really a good question . I'll say people I don't have like single person , but people who out there are being a dad and then managing their family financial-wise , emotional-wise , everything , and then trying to live their life peacefully . I think that is very for me emotional-wise everything , and then trying to live their life peacefully . I think that is very for me . It's very admirable for me to be that type of .

Ray 50:47

I'll say A dad figure like maintaining your household Right it's not more like manly dad , it's more like the dad has the full accountability , being reliable and accountable , exactly .

J.R. 51:01

Like being there and stuff like that . More actual , like adult . So that's how you define success is like someone who can portray that in their own life that's like good dad energy , yes , cool . If you knew you couldn't fail , what would you try or what would you be doing now ?

Ray 51:17

uh , could you rephrase that question ?

J.R. 51:19

yeah , so if you could do anything and you knew you would succeed , what would you be trying ? Would it be different ? Would it be the same ? Would there be some new things ?

Ray 51:29

like I've always been curious about doing that thing I think I will try to pursue becoming a like a not like completely like a finding fine dining , like chef or working in the fine dining industry , because I always love to do cooking on the side , because a lot of my part-time job was like being in the food like working the kitchen section and a different like cuisine . So I always thought the uh , cooking is part of the art . So maybe that's why I think that what if I was like working on the you know , culinary industry so in a different universe .

J.R. 52:11

You're still an artist , but now in culinary nice . What is one of the best or most worthwhile investments you've ever made in either time ?

Ray 52:20

money or energy or etc I think the best investment was maybe having a decision to come all the way to the states , even if it's I don't have anyone else to know . Like anyone else , I I know here I just take the big step to having the adventure and of course I at the time my art skills and everything as myself was . Everything was like like I didn't . I wasn't fully prepared and but I strongly felt that if I don't give a try , I feel like I'll regret or I'll be just living in the past .

Ray 52:58

So I was like I'll try my full potential out there and if I get any type of result , in the end , I'll accept it and then I'll move forward to the different thing that I need to figure out in my life .

J.R. 53:14

I like it . You know that quote to that saying , which is like there's only two pain in life . There's the pain of regret and the pain of discipline . So you choose your pain exactly . You prefer one or the other . So I like it reminds me of that last two . What is your favorite recent purchase between 50 and 100 that has impacted your life the most in the last , let's say , six months ?

Ray 53:35

I will say there's a lot of things that I've purchased , I think now I realize I buy a lot of stuff .

J.R. 53:41

Yeah , first thing that comes to mind you're like useful , not expensive . It helps me .

Ray 53:48

I'll say purchasing . I purchased one of my small sketchbook for myself . I had tons of sketchbook but I want something is very handy so I can just carry around anywhere without feeling a little bit heavy or anything else .

Ray 54:08

So that actually helped me a lot , because that's how I start to enjoining the art other than think as like as like type of like work or responsibility , because art for me is a bit like my favorite , but at the same time everything is tangled , for example , like getting the financial support from parents , getting a lot of like not I'll say expectation from my mentor , or everything is not be done by myself . So art is , for me , is half responsibility , half my motivation . But that little sketchbook which is like a couple of dollars helps me to get into the art how it was used to be like just the love of the hobby of the art yeah , just as your career in your whole life .

J.R. 54:56

Exactly , I like it all right . Last one any favorite

Media Recommendations

J.R. 55:00

books , movies , videos , articles or any media that you share or recommend the most ?

Ray 55:05

I think I love the one of . It's also like the game thing . But I love the concept art book which there's a one I recently purchased I couldn't mention it all your question because it's like over 100 . Yeah , it was a big investment for me . I purchased the one of the , the game called sky . It's a mobile game which doesn't have any text inside or doesn't have any violence contents inside . It's more like you playing the game and actually relaxing . So it's like kind of stress relieving . Like game . You see the beautiful , like wall building or landscape , the colors and everything . So I love that type of game which I wanted to create in the in the future . Yeah , so I purchased that book . It's really like mind-blowing because I can feel the process of how people create the game .

Ray 56:01

Even if you are not an artist it looks very relaxing . It's like you don't have to read that much , but you can tell what they're thinking . It's like you visiting the art gallery .

J.R. 56:13

Nice , so what was that called ? Again , so I can link it .

Ray 56:15

The Art of Sky .

J.R. 56:18

The Art of Sky .

Ray 56:19

You said it's a game Okay cool . It's a mobile game Cool .

J.R. 56:22

I'll link to it . Nice , all right , we have reached the end , so this is the ending

Ending Questions: Gratitude & Final Takeaways

J.R. 56:27

question . So first is gratitude Shout out to my mom for teaching me this . So , ray , what are you grateful for ?

Ray 56:33

I really feel grateful to having this opportunity through JR here and I feel very grateful that I could have like actually shared this type of story because of the people who I met in my life and then people who taught me , especially my mentor and my parents .

J.R. 56:53

I really appreciate that nice any final ask from the audience or any final takeaways you want them to have from this conversation .

Ray 57:02

I'll say what do you like most in your life ? And then do you want to pursue that dream or the goal , or the love that you have in your heart ? I think that's the question .

J.R. 57:23

So a good question to reflect on . Yes , all right . So last one where can we find you , ray , if people want to check out what you're doing or contact you or whatever ?

Ray 57:31

I think there's a different way , but you can also visit my linkedin . You can just type ray lee and then you'll see my picture , same as the face I have here . His face yes and then you can also find me on .

J.R. 57:47

Instagram .

Ray 57:48

It's Ray Lee Art , and if you are a little bit interested in the art , you can also go on my portfolio website , which is StarlightVisioncom , and there's that's the way you can find me .

J.R. 58:03

Perfect , yeah , and I'll link all of it in the show notes so they'll be able to click that and go to it easily . All right .

J.R. 58:08

Ray . So we are done . So thank you for this great conversation and all of your insights for our audience . I'm sure they'll really appreciate it . So I'll do my final sign off . So thank you again to the audience for tuning in . Really appreciate you . Hopefully you learned something Reminder to always be kind to others , especially yourself , and that you can always learn something from someone if you take the time to listen . So thanks for tuning in . Thank you .