#73: Maximillian Navarro - Retail Sales to LinkedIn Recruiting, Fashion Tips, and Building a 10-Year Relationship

Maximillian Navarro on Recruiting, Fashion, and Building a 10-Year Relationship | One Thousand Gurus.

J.R. Yonocruz reconnects with his younger cousin, Maximillian Navarro, to discuss his journey from UC Riverside grad to agency recruiting and his move into a recruiting consultant role at LinkedIn. Max shares practical job-search and interviewing advice, plus what he believes makes a great recruiter. They also dive into how he got into fashion and sneakers, and close with lessons on sustaining a long-term relationship and deciding when to propose.

03:57 Life Update After College

05:42 Bay Area Roots and Sci Fi

07:06 Homeschooling and Social Skills

13:06 High School Dreams and Identity

16:17 Choosing UCR and Sociology

20:23 Post Grad Sales and Layoff

24:16 Staffing Sales to Recruiting

32:35 Landing LinkedIn Recruiting

39:35 Recruiter Advice Communication

41:39 Fashion and Sneakers

47:09 Discovering Your Style

51:54 Trends And Subgenres

57:09 Choosing The Right Partner

01:01:31 Sustaining Long Relationships

01:08:19 Rapid Fire Questions

01:16:48 Atmospheric Music Ritual

01:21:58 Gratitude And Sign Off

Guest bio:
Recruiter, fashion enthusiast, music lover, fan of the arts, and video games.

• Instagram: @maximillian.kan / https://www.instagram.com/maximillian.kan

Links/resources:

• Nike Stefan Janoski Skate Shoes
• RIftbound League of Legends TCG

Transcript

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J.R.: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome back to One Thousand Gurus with me, your host, J.R. Yonocruz. 

Today's guest is Maximilian Navarro. Max is a recruiter, fashion enthusiast, music lover, fan of the arts and video games.

This was such a fun conversation because I got to catch up with my cousin who lives in the Bay Area, and I haven't spoken to him in years.

I knew he went to UC Riverside, but I never really caught up with him on what he's been up to since he graduated. So it was really good to get two birds with one stone in this one.

We go into various topics like his career journey, from sales to recruiting, not knowing what he wanted to do in high school and going into college, but eventually figuring it out.

We talk about some of his biggest interests like fashion, sneakers, and music. And lastly, we finish off with his lessons learned when it comes to sustaining a long-term relationship, and how he decided it was the right time to propose to his girlfriend, now fiance.

It was a lovely conversation with Max, who is a very kind and warm soul as you'll find out.

So without further ado, hope you enjoy this episode with Maximilian Navarro.

Hello and welcome back to One Thousand Gurus. Max, welcome to the [00:01:00] show. 

Max: Thank you. Thank you for having me. 

J.R.: Yeah, thanks for being here, man. I really appreciate it. I want to say that it has been quite some time since we like spoke to each other. Right. Do you have an estimate of how long? 'cause I have a feeling in my head that it's been a long time.

Max: Probably around, I wanna say pre pandemic, possibly at this point, maybe a little bit. Most, yeah. But yeah, around that time, 

J.R.: I, I wanna say I feel like I haven't talked to you in person be since before you went to school. Like college. Like 

Max: I think I met, I think we met up once. 'cause my I think my dad was there too when we went to, oh, you were 

J.R.: right 

Max: down there.

J.R.: It was like seven leaves or something. Right. Were you 

Max: in school already? Yeah, we met at seven leaves down. Was it Irvine or was it 

J.R.: Yeah, I think OC somewhere. Yeah, yeah, 

Max: yeah. Somewhere in oc. 

J.R.: Did we talk or did we just meet up real quick? 

Max: We met up real quick, but we sat down and I probably sat with you guys for maybe 30 minutes or so.

30, 40 minutes. Okay. We were just chatting and 

J.R.: you already 

Max: over seven 

J.R.: already? [00:02:00] You were already in school, right? 

Max: Yeah, I think that was towards my last year of of college. So I was probably 

J.R.: Okay. 

Max: Yeah. Senior year of college. 

J.R.: You're right. Okay. I remember that photo, I think before then Was the last time I spoke to you was definitely before you went to school.

Yeah. 'cause I remember like you were applying or something like that, like you were in high school and like looking for colleges and stuff like that. But then, yeah, and afterwards I think we were talking with your dad and then I think we were asking about like career stuff and then I think you or him talked about like how you wanted to go into fashion or you're interested in fashion or something like that.

That's what I vaguely remember, but that was like right after the pandemic. Right before the pandemic. Something like that. 

Max: I think. I think that had to be right before, 

J.R.: before, 

Max: I 

J.R.: think it was like right before you graduated 2020, right? Yeah. 

Max: Yeah. 

J.R.: So it was like probably 2019 or something like that.

Max: Probably 2019. That's great. So pretty much seven years at this point. 

J.R.: Yeah. No, I mean, and even then, if it was right before then, that's like at least 10 years. Right? 

Max: Right. 

J.R.: But yeah, it's cool to see you, man. I'm glad to speak with you. Yeah, we hung out like a long [00:03:00] time ago, I think, obviously when we first met.

Okay. So for the audience we're family. Cousin, specifically second cousin. I had to look that up. I'm like, okay, well I don't know what this is. Mm-hmm. But like, so we're cousins. So your mom and my mom are cousins. Right. And we usually, we've seen each other like, you know, Thanksgiving or Christmas sort of times.

And sometimes we'll have the family gatherings at your place and you're your family's place in San Jose. I remember a long, long time ago, like you and your sister were like, so ti you guys were like up to like my waist and then now you guys are like super huge. And then, you know, out in the real world and adults.

So it's pretty crazy to like, see you guys grow up.

Yeah. You went to school at UCR and then Yeah. You, I know you're really into fashion, music sneakers. And you currently live in San Jose, right? 

Max: That is correct. 

J.R.: Yeah. And then you work as a recruiter and you recently got engaged, right? Is that everything?

Correct. And did I make mistakes? 

Max: Happily engaged? I am a recruiter. I love fashion, love sneakers. Sounds all right to me. 

J.R.: Nice. Nice. All right, so what else what else are you up to TLDR? [00:04:00] I mean, I know we haven't caught up in a long time, but like what? Mm-hmm. Just for the audience what's, like the recent happenings, 

Max: Right? Right. So, I mean, as you alluded to ever since post grad just been navigating my way through adulthood, really, at the end of the day, just. Learning to pay taxes, learning how to pay rent mainly, so just trying to navigate all of the normal aspects of life. But yeah, I've just been, I've been really honed in, into my career these past two years or so.

Prior to being a recruiter leading into it a lot of my time was spent in like luxury retail. I used to work for a company called esop. They spell a $50 hand soap, so I used to be there for a while, found my way into recruiting, and it's been a career that I've really enjoyed, so I just try to put my head down and try to grow. At a exponential speed, really. So, I wish I had more fun things to do outside of life. I'm trying to get that in [00:05:00] now. Doing a lot more physical activities. My, my fiance, she's a bodybuilder, so I've been trying to match her essentially. And when it comes to diet, when it comes to physical activity I've been trying to get into hobbies again.

Recently picked up like a new trading card game to, to nerd out with with a couple of my friends. It's a riff bound from league of Legends, so just trying to get back into that. But other, that just still trying to keep up with my old hobbies of fashion and and music too. So just exploring the age old.

J.R.: Nice. I like it, man. Yeah, and we'll get into a lot of those things too. I'm glad you brought them up. Kinda like a little preview.

Alright, I guess we can just jump straight in. So, as usual with my guests, I like to humanize you guys. Origin story, career trajectory, life aspirations. So like, easy jump off question.

Where did you grow up and what were your main influences? 

Max: Gotcha. Growing up. I've always been in the Bay Area. I was born and raised in San Jose east Side, San [00:06:00] Jose specifically. I was homeschooled up until about high school, so a lot of my influences especially as a kid, as youth I was pretty chronically online for the most part.

I mean, this was a time where it wasn't really like gen Alpha or how like attached and online they are, but I grew up on like being on Xbox Live, playing Halo with a random people probably triple my age. And then watching Star Wars and being super enamored by like Jedi lightsabers. And then trying to build those worlds with all these Lego sets.

I would by that. Well, I think if I really were to summarize it really though a lot of sci-fi, a lot of sci-fi growing up, I think because I was so sheltered having that other worldly kind of world building in all these different stories helped inspire kind of what interests me today. Just kind of like being like a chronic daydreamer [00:07:00] myself.

So, ever since I think that influenced kind of like my taste on nowadays overall. But in terms of going to high school I think. The social aspect was a bit hard at first. I wouldn't say I was like I was awkward, but I wasn't too awkward. But I think high school really helped me learn like social cues at the end of the day.

Because it was the first time being in a public school environment. It was about like 700 people in one class, so 700 times four. And then just those experience there has helped me shape kind of like how I act nowadays for the most part. Just experience I done there and kind of like how I would navigate it then is kind of similar how I now navigate it now, just more at, on a more mature level, I would say 

J.R.: Professional level.

Yeah. 

Max: Yeah. Professional level. 

J.R.: I don't know if you thought about this a lot, but what do you think? How do you think you would've been different, if at all, if [00:08:00] you weren't like, let's say, homeschooled for that long? Right, 

Max: good question. And I've thought about this before, but really when I think about it, I think I would've been way more easily influenced by others.

To put it simply. I think growing up, homeschooled and being around my family, I think it's given me a couple things. One it's been like, it's given me a deep appreciation for the family relationships I was able to build internally with my parents, my siblings I have three siblings for those that dunno.

And so just having that close relationship with them growing up I, I didn't see it then, but now that I look back on it has really. Shaped my how or shaped how much I value family and close relationships in the first place. If I didn't grow up in that homeschooled environment, I environment, I think [00:09:00] I might have been, there could have been a higher possibility of me being influenced in things that, you know, I don't value at this point in time.

And I think that was the intention. 

J.R.: More susceptible, right? Like peer pressure and stuff like that? 

Max: A hundred percent. I mean, I'm still susceptible to peer pressure. We're all human temptations, all that kind of stuff. I think it really helped build like my conscience, I guess. I know what I feel is right. I know what I feel is wrong. Just being in that homeschooled environment and kind of just having those family values. I think that really helped, and that might not have been the same if I went to a public school growing up. 

J.R.: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

So I guess question for you then if, or when, if you ever decided to have kids, would you homeschool them or what is the, is there a balance there?

Like certain age? What are your thoughts? 

Max: Mm-hmm. I've if I were to have kids I've already thought. I'm not gonna [00:10:00] homeschool them. Definitely not. Even though, even though the net there was net positive in my experience, I think it's more so of a selfish thing where it took a lot of effort on my parents' side to be able to support that type of lifestyle.

My, my dad was the sole provider during that whole timeline. And I think the only reason why it was so successful is that my mom was able to dedicate pretty much a hundred percent of her time to our growth. If I had to split my time to homeschooling and career and just like personal time I don't think the outcome would've been the same as my outcome.

And so I realized the how much sacrifices needed for that kind of homeschooling structure. And I don't think I wanna put that kind of effort into it. 

J.R.: I see. Okay. So then hypothetical, if, let's say you were [00:11:00] in a place and I don't know if this would ever be like a desire, right?

Let's say financially career wise you're set so that you could do like, like your mom a hundred percent into family life, right? Would you still want to do it at that point because you don't have the, that same constraint, or is it more just like, I'd prefer to actually do my life and career and all this stuff like that, and then have like a more traditional ish sort of family where they can go to school and whatnot?

Max: Mm-hmm. I think even if all the stars aligned and it was a perfect scenario to do homeschooling, I think I would still at least attempt to put them in schooling. I think for me, one of, if I were to have kids one of my main kind of goal main traits I would wanna pass down is learning how to network efficiently.

Of course, like saying that to a kid, they're not gonna get that, but it comes through like social skills, right? Putting them in environments that are [00:12:00] uncomfortable for them, putting them in environments that or social situations that they have to navigate themselves. I think giving that at an early age will help shape like effective networking skills, confidence skills moving forward in life that I think are very, very valuable.

Probably one of the, probably one of my most proud traits, I guess that I have right now is my ability to navigate public speaking, navigate like certain hard social issues, all that kind of stuff that, you know, some people might experience in life. I think if I were to instill that into my kids at an early age life will be easier for them.

J.R.: Okay. So even if, even though it worked out for you, you think like generally they might get a better headstart if they had like a more traditional experience like with school. 

Max: That's how I feel now. I mean, things might change Yeah. In the future as, right, like we humans do in general, but if I were to put a [00:13:00] timestamp on, you know, Max 2026, that's my headspace.

J.R.: Gotcha. That makes sense. Okay. Main influence is obviously your upbringing going into high school and then college. What were your life aspirations, I guess, at that point? So let's say Max in high school, but also did it change from pre to post-college? 

Max: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, my aspirations in high school, I just wanted to be famous, to be honest. I didn't know for what, but.

J.R.: Okay. Just well known. 

Max: Just well known. It's well known. I think. Oh, I think, you know what it was a response to being homeschooled, I think. 

J.R.: Okay. 

Max: Because I was so sheltered and going into high school, there was a aspect of like, I don't know anybody.

And I feel invisible, and I think I knew at that time I didn't want to be invisible. I wanted to. I wanted to be, I wanted to be popular. I wanted to be as vain as it is, right? I wanted to be famous. I wanted to [00:14:00] be well known. Well liked I think that's was my, what I wanted to, that was my aspirations at the time.

And because of that, since that was my goal, I think there was a main issue of I really didn't know what I wanted to do. In high school. I didn't know what life after high school looked like, besides college. I knew that was kind of just set in stone. That was kind of like a gr a guaranteed, like you have to do that.

But I di I didn't know, like, okay, what would a career would look like? What do I even wanna do for the rest of my life. I wasn't thinking that far. I was thinking a little bit more of like. Instant gratification of like, I just wanna be popular. I just wanna make friends. I just wanna be well liked. And so that was my mindset in high school.

As I got to college reality did tend to like set in a little bit harder where it's like, what do I do? You know? I was like, what do I do after college? I went to [00:15:00] school for sociology and I already knew I didn't wanna get a career specifically in that.

I kind of wanted to use it as like a, as a stepping stone and just say like, maybe I can use it for some sales related pitches, because as I'm studying society just to study, like, you know, I was making BS examples for that just to kind of weave my story into it. 'Cause it's a pretty fluid major.

But I just kind of figured I'm probably just gonna resort to sales kind of like my dad. 'cause I mean, all you have to do is talk and sell.

But I always knew I kind of wanted to do something a bit more aesthetic. I so that's why I, like, fashion was a big thing for me.

The arts was a big thing for me. I was considering maybe, possibly if there's any way I can get into fashion and work for a big fashion house for whatever reason. That was like my optimistic mindset before I found out, like how one, most people in that history doesn't make money. So I was like, okay, that's like not an incentive.

And then two [00:16:00] it's already kind of like hard to get in. You have to go to like certain schools overseas to be even considered for the most part. And majority of the roles in fashion were like, interesting to me in general. So I was just kinda like, eh maybe it's not for me. So lemme just roll with life and see what comes my way from there.

J.R.: So I guess let's take up, take a step back. How did you end up choosing UCR? And then, I mean, you kind of alluded to the connecting the dots for sociology, right? You said you majored in so how did you choose that major and then once you graduated college, how did you connect the dots into like, jumping into the workforce?

Max: I mean, I'll be honest when it comes to choosing sociology really I chose that major is was because I wanted an easier way to get into colleges. Because in initially I wanted to go into college with like business admin. I was in, after high school, I went into community college and I was starting to [00:17:00] take classes. And I'll be honest I wasn't the best student even in high school going into college.

My discipline was very lackluster compared to what it is now. Grades were not great, even going community when I needed to the credits to transfer there I did struggle a little bit. In my head, doing some of these classes I needed for business admin. So some of like the accounting classes, the calc classes, especially with math.

I was really bad at it. I was I was really bad at it and I was like, I just need an out, because I don't wanna stay in community for more than like, three-ish years, two, three years. I wanted two years. And then go to uc, preferably, and then head out. And so I took sociology as kind of like a an elective during that time to get some GE credits. And I think I was in a class and I was just kinda like, oh, I could do this. It's fine.

And so I pivoted into it. Classes were way easier 'cause it's way more like [00:18:00] theoretical for the most part. And I think English classes in high school English classes were being refined because I just write stories and analysis and just explain why I think that way it's a bit easier for me than.

Proving why something is, or having like a, like doing math where something is like, objectively correct. And so when I went into sociology, I was like, okay, this will achieve my goal into getting into a uc. It did achieve my goal to get into uc. My, my original goal was getting to Irvine, but to be honest, I didn't make it in even with like, the classes I did do.

So UCR was basically the next best bet. So I was like, all right, you know what? I wanna go to SoCal. I wanna live there for a little bit, so lemme just go to UCR and just get my degree there. Because I, in my head, I think I already knew I was gonna go into like some sales adjacent role and I was like, the degree doesn't really matter at this.

As long as you have like a bachelor's that's already something like companies look [00:19:00] for mainly. As long as you put in the work and get a bachelor's and, you know, at like a reputable school it's fine. Not saying Riverside's up there or anything, but you know, it's something so that's when maybe chose Riverside and finishing out my degree there really.

So it, it wasn't anything, I guess as much as I wanted to be like, Hey, this was very intentional of me wanting to go there. I wanted to I wanted to learn from this, you know, high institution, but at the end of the day, my thought process at the time was like, I just need to, I just need to check off these boxes.

Like I, I know this is what the steps I need to do to at least have a somewhat successful life. Lemme just do it because I didn't know what I wanted in life at the time. 

J.R.: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And I think I mean, I dunno if you know this, but it's, my story is very similar too. Like I, I went to UCI didn't know what I wanted to major in, picked poli sci.

It was just a checkbox. I mostly went to SoCal just to dance. I mean, I think you know this. And so I did that, graduated, I'm like, I still don't dunno what I [00:20:00] wanna do and I'm not gonna go for something that I don't care about, like going to law school. I'm like, okay, I already crossed that off the list.

I didn't wanna be a lawyer, but yeah, I think I was the same as you. Like I mostly just wanted to get through a university, you know, like, uc and then just kind of go into the workforce.

So, so you graduated 2020, right? And mm-hmm. So could you walk us through like, connecting the dots from, at that point to where you ended up today?

Yeah. Yeah. So right after college, right after graduating, it was kind of an interesting time, though.

Max: It was a little bit different because it was during the pandemic, so everyone had to move back home. I basically moved back home with my parents. It was basically on my last quarter. I would take everything remote and then once I finished it, I just went straight home. We didn't even, I don't even know if we had a a graduation walk, to be honest.

I know. I didn't. Dang, I didn't participate. Dang. I didn't even, I don't I haven't, I didn't even take grad photos, actually. Now think about it. 

J.R.: Dang. 

Max: So I didn't have the shawl or anything. I kind of regret it a little bit though, [00:21:00] to be honest with you. 

J.R.: Yeah, yeah. 

Max: But yeah, so I was just, from there, I was just thinking like, okay, I guess I gotta grow up now and let me just find a sales role, you know what I mean?

Lemme find a sales role and do it. Let I I went through a couple months of interviewing ended up landing a role at a it's technically a FinTech company, but basically we sold loans like home mortgage loans. I would just be like a like a call center rep there. Just taking the inbound calls hearing all the angry customers that are late on signing their closing deal.

And I was like, oh, I don't know where your rep is. They're they're ghosted you. I don't know where they went, but so it was one of those, it was honestly, I kind of enjoyed it. It was fully remote. I had to take the NML NMLS test as well that I had to study like super hard for, unless I get fired.

I was there for a couple months and then they did like a mass layoff. That was my first experience doing like a layoff. And during that time I think it hit me harder that I didn't know [00:22:00] what to do and I'm like, I don't really want to sit in call centers. I don't wanna like just do this. 'cause I was kind of, it was kind of draining for the most part.

So I made the conscious decision to, in my head at the time, I was like, let me take control of my life and go the way I want to. So I was like, I knew I like design because I've been I have, I feel like I've always appreciated, like aesthetics in general. And I was like, okay, I like aesthetics. I'm in the Bay Area, so I needed to do something with tech.

I think I asked Google, I was like, okay, what's what's a role I could do to mix both of them? And it was a ux UI designer. So I was like, oh, how do I get into that? And so I found a I found a bootcamp that I wanted to do. I basically signed up for paid with my own money. I was like, okay, this is gonna take like nine months.

I need like an easy job to help sustain. And that's when I got into esop, which is like luxury skincare. 'cause mainly I just like their marketing. I like their branding. So I was like. [00:23:00] Lemme just work for them. Sounds fun. I've never worked for, prior to that. I've never worked for a company that like I've appreciated.

It was just because like, I needed to make money, so I was like, let me actually work for a company that I actually look up to, and we'll kind of go from there. We'll see how that's what that's like. It again it's retail, so everyone around me was seeing it as a step down. Which, you know, when you really break it down, yeah, sure.

It's a step down. But to this day for right now, it's been one of my favorite jobs. I was there, I was a sales consultant there. Stayed there actually for two years because the ux EI thing, long story short did not work out that it was, by the time I signed up for it and started going into the market, the market was so saturated and the skill level was much, much higher than.

The work I was putting into it, I guess. It is just my skill wasn't matching up with what the market was at at the moment. And so I got kind of stuck there a little bit at esop. While I tried to find my way to get into corporate. Internally [00:24:00] it's really hard to kind of go from like, you know, a retail into corporate.

It happened over there for sure, just 'cause a lot of the they would promote that really that kind of culture. So I guess it was kind of like dangling a carrot in front of you just to keep going. But so I got kind of stuck there for a little bit. And then I happen, I happened to run into an opportunity to go into sales for a for a staffing firm.

So. This one here. It was like a friend of mine had an opportunity posted on a story. He is like, Hey, looking for salespeople. I was like, okay, this is my one shot to kind of like, get out of a retail and go into a little something, a little bit more corporate. It's not a sexy industry, really, like, you know, to break it down.

 I was doing sales, but for the company I'm currently at, it's it's what they call like a temp agency or like a staffing agency. And so the business model behind it is we supply temp workers for different companies.

Each agency is a little bit different in [00:25:00] terms of like the industry they wanna get into, but for them specifically a good portion of their clients were manufacturing based. So, tech, manufacturing you know, similar to that. And so I was just kinda like, compared to my luxury side of things and just how like my brain works, I was like, oh, that sounds like so boring.

I, I mean, but 

J.R.: so what side of sale? Like, so like what were you selling? 

Max: Mm-hmm. 

J.R.: Or I'm trying to connect the dots. Maybe I'm missing something. 

Max: Right, right. No, no, no. Yeah, so that's, that was also the hard part for me too, getting into it. So it's like, as for a salesperson for this kind of agency is like, how do I sell this?

And so really the way that you sell it, you are selling business to business. So you're selling to businesses and you're saying, Hey, do you need someone to, a couple things? Do you need someone to help? Or do you need someone to help you find specific talent that you're having a hard time recruiting for?

Do you need someone to payroll [00:26:00] like 10 of your manufacturing workers because you don't wanna take the liability of any injury that they need. Any worker, workers' comp will take that blow for you. Or also, we'll also just will payroll them. So even though they work for the company, they're a W2 employee for us for the agency.

So we just say basically all the liability. 

J.R.: I see. Okay. So it's like a staffing agency, but your, I guess the role is to like do outreach B2B, like selling that service to those companies. 

Max: Exactly. So a lot of my role would be cold calling certain decision make even doing field work as well.

So showing up randomly to these companies and just knocking on their door sounds fun. It's, it's fun. Hello. It's definitely fun. Like, whatcha doing? Yeah, so that's, it's, I started off in sales to be very transparent with you. It took like maybe a month or two into it [00:27:00] where I wasn't performing just 'cause it was a little bit outta my on my wheelhouse.

But the leadership within the company I'm eternally grateful for them looking at me this way. They saw the potential in me as they, they see the way that I talk to people and the way that I can cultivate relationships of like, Hey, have you ever tried recruiting or have you ever thought of recruiting?

And I was like. I'd love to try it. I mean, what else do I got? Right? And so they switched me into more of a recruiting role. And so then my role became working with a bunch of clients they have, like on their book of business and in all the different roles that they need to fill. And it's my job to help source that talent, find the best talent, put them in those roles, and hopefully they have a good, they do a good time over there.

And I thrived in that aspect way more compared to the selling aspect. And and 

J.R.: Why do you think that was?

Max: I think really when it came down to it I like the candidate experience side of trying [00:28:00] to help people find a job, and then also making sure that ev everyone kind of has a shot at.

At a role that they would thrive in. So I think it's an extension of my experience where I felt like I was getting into these roles 'cause I had to let me help try to, and I always felt like maybe certain, during some application process when I applied for jobs, people weren't seeing me for me, which I'm sure most people kind of had that same kind of experience.

So I made it my mission to essentially make sure during that experience, I'm not one of those recruiters that basically doesn't understand what they want at the end of the day and not just trying to fill a position just to fill a position. You know what I mean?

And I think that aspect has helped me one, cultivate a lot of great relationships and networks during the process on both the candidate side and also client side as well too, our business side. Because [00:29:00] if I keep both sides happy, that's my main goal at the end of the day. Right? 

J.R.: I see. Okay. So it's like the original sales position was more of like, here I can sell you. You're trying to sell the business, the clients or the prospects on like, here's a bunch of resources that you might need.

But in this, as recruiter, you're now working with people trying to place them in jobs and also on the business or client side, trying to place the right people. And I'm assuming that more of like that human experience rather than just, Hey, here's a bunch of resources, but more like, oh yeah, I'm connecting a human with like a job and it works well for everyone, right. That little bit more. 

Max: Exactly. It's a bit of a smoother process, but also, I mean there, there's still sales aspects side to it. Of course a lot of people say that sales and recruiting are two side or two different sides of the same coin. Because you still have to sell the job to the candidate and you have to sell the candidate to the job.

Yeah. So. I think it's, it wasn't the sales aspect that I wasn't really connecting with at first. I think it was just [00:30:00] what the process of the role, or at least the nitty gritty of the role. I appreciated doing the nitty gritty of recruiting work rather than the nitty gritty of sales 'cause sales especially when it comes to outbound sales it's a lot of knocking on people's doors and getting a lot of nos, and it's, you have to like, prove yourself a little bit more, I think, of like, why is it worth it?

Rather than when talking about jobs with people, there's always kind of like a, at least a slight interest on the candidate side because I mean, who doesn't want a job? You know? 

J.R.: Yeah. There's usually in that side, there's, they know that there's an inherent benefit to a job opportunity. Right.

Max: Exactly. Exactly. 

J.R.: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, so then you found yourself into recruiting, fortunately, and then has it just been there smooth sailing ever since and then now you're, you know, starting a new position or what's the 

Max: Exactly, yeah. Smooth sailing ever since. Been [00:31:00] through a lot of great experiences.

Lot of lot of learning lessons through this whole process. Even though my career in recruiting has only been maybe a year and a half at this point. Learned a whole bunch, learned a whole bunch during that process because of the, just the mass amount of clients I had to work with. I have worked with tech companies, I've worked with FinTech companies, I've worked with the manufacturing side of things.

I worked with a wide range of different type of hiring managers so I could see how to like talk to these different type of people. It's a lot, it's a lot to juggle especially on the agency side of things. And wrapping up my time there this week to join my new opportunities is slightly, a little, slightly a little more in-house for a company I really look up to.

I I'm very excited to see where my career goes from here and I'm excited to announce it in the near future when I start. 

J.R.: Yeah. No, that's exciting. Also too, timing wise, this episode's gonna come out like end of March, so there's the, a good [00:32:00] buffer there. So no secrets will be still until then.

Max: Oh, March. Oh, we chilling then. I could probably just drop it right now. So I'll be I'll be joining as a recruiting consultant for LinkedIn, so 

J.R.: Oh, nice. Exciting. 

Max: Y Yeah, so super exciting. So it's slightly more in-house, but still working with like external clients and everything like that, but

 it's known to be like the largest staffing company in the world just based off, 

J.R.: right. 

Max: I mean, the nature of it, right. So, right. I, exciting times.

I'm excited to see what comes from it. I'm happy about the opportunity is jumping for joy. 

J.R.: Yeah. All right. I have a lot of things I wanna hit, but we're short on time or, I mean, I'm trying to make this concise, but, So basically challenges, lessons learned. You mentioned that you learned a lot there, and I'm sure there's a lot of good insights that you can pass on. Lessons on being a good recruiter. What part of that was like your inherent sort of how your brain works versus skills you had to develop? Maybe if this makes sense or if it's proprietary, but like [00:33:00] how does one land a job at LinkedIn or like at a higher company as someone who is a recruiter and getting into a company like that.

Any parts you wanna take on first? 

Max: When it comes to landing a job specifically with maybe some of these higher companies or even just startups in general because I have also interviewed for different startups in San Francisco that. That I've gone quite far and much, I have had a lot of interest in them as well.

But the, I think the main thing I want people to take away from, especially when it comes to the job application process, 'cause a lot of people I see online, I mean, we see it all the time on LinkedIn. You see it all the time on like even just Instagram and TikTok, you have people saying that, you know, I applied for hundreds of jobs.

I haven't heard back from any of them. Which I get, you know, I'm, I was in the same boat too. I think a couple things that I try to help candidates look at during this process is when you are doing the mass blast [00:34:00] of like, your resumes everywhere, where are you getting callbacks from? You know, really try to group up where why are they responding to you?

Why are you getting your first round in the first place? Look at their job descriptions, see which ones were you matching up with specifically? Like for me, when I was doing my first initial like job search, I noticed the ones that would give me the time of day would be the ones that were looking for someone with high volume recruiting experience and agency experience, which fit me to a t because of the high numbers I would produce.

And then also the the agency setting compared to maybe some of the other recruiting positions that needed someone in a little more in-house, et cetera. So I was like, okay, I see I'm getting called back for these guys. Let me tailor my resume to really lean into that heavier so that for those who also have that kind of [00:35:00] requirement it'll make me look stronger instead of me using how a general resume to try to be a catchall.

And I think by doing that. It is, it has helped the consistency of different companies reaching back out. So I think if people can do that, that will help the job aspect when it comes to landing it I think understanding when you start to get the first maybe to maybe a second round, third round by that point the hiring team knows you can probably do the job, but I think at that point they're asking do they understand what they're doing in the first place?

Like what is the bottom line of why we need this role open in the first place? Because we're not just gonna hire people just to hire people. We're hiring people to help solve a problem. So do they understand what that problem is in the first place? Like what are they trying to solve? Sure. Say, for example, if we took [00:36:00] like, we took like a sales role, I guess for example that was opened up for like a small tech company.

If they have the requirements on there, and if that candidate just speaks to the requirements, like, oh yeah, I could do this, this, and this, but do you understand why we opened up the sales role? Like, do you understand our product? Do you know how to sell our product to or Well, I guess to take it back, do you even know like who our customer base is?

Do you even know do you even know how fast do we wanna scale? Like what's our what do you think our goals would be by X amount? If you can speak to those things and like try to predict it beforehand, I think it could kind of help. And you could be totally wrong about it too. It's like at least you made the attempt to like try to understand their business.

I think that goes a lot. Got a lot further than just saying oh, I can, I saw on the job description [00:37:00] the requirements for X, Y, and Z. And I've done this here. It's still good, but yet to say like. Okay, but what was the result from it? Like, what was the business impact from it? I think that helps people, that would help propel people a lot further overall.

J.R.: That's a really good tip. So I guess just to recap, it's not just speaking to the requirements that you see for what they're looking for, but if you can do a little bit more. Critical thinking research beforehand. Whatever you can do to be like, okay, I have a better understanding of this industry, the position of this company in that industry, in this market, what the actual pain points are in like, the real life time right now.

How can I solve that? It's like, okay, maybe they're hiring more because of this thing in the market or this thing in the world, and I know that most companies in this industry have this problem and I know I can help solve that. Mm-hmm. And digging a little bit deeper.

So I'm assuming, and I would like to get your thoughts on that, that's just doing more research beforehand and or just thinking a little bit harder and like making a guess just to show that you are standing out a little bit [00:38:00] more or is there any other tips on how to leverage that sort of opportunity, you're saying?

Max: Mm-hmm. Yes. That's basically what it is. And when it comes to doing that research, you don't have to go too in depth because obviously they're not gonna expect you to know. But I think it's more so the action of showing that you tried to learn it. The effort goes a long way. And to be honest, you could be very, even, you could be very general with it too. You don't have to go into details like, oh, I saw you, I looked on your report. Your numbers from Q4 were down XXM amount. And 

J.R.: it's like, sir, how do you know this information?

Max: No, exactly. I mean, sure, you can find, like maybe if it was a public traded company, you can probably look at it up. Right, right. But they're not expecting you to do that. And honestly, I don't think they want you to go that deep. As long as you know, like a general sense of why you're doing something and you can speak to that.

I think it, it goes a long way. I, as repetitive as it is, people talk about the star method a lot. Like, you know, the. When answering a question, you have to bring the situation you know, bring up the speed of [00:39:00] the situation, do the task that you were doing the action you did to resolve the situation and what was the result of it.

Right. So that's the star method. I think as like, redundant as that advice is for a lot of these interview prep, I think just having a general knowledge of it really does help especially when it comes to like the interview process. But at the end of the day, it's just trying to like, keep it concise. I get the main meat and potatoes of why you think the way that you do. And hopefully that comes across to the recruiter or hiring manager at the time. 

J.R.: Last question on this topic, maybe a's TLDR, but what is I, maybe I don't wanna ask challenges, but maybe advice for people to be a good recruiter. I'm sure no one is amazing out the gate, right? And so hard earned lessons. Anything you wanna pass on for people who might even, who might be interested in being a recruiter?

Max: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Communication. I think one of the [00:40:00] main, one of the main issues that I see a lot when people's having experience with the recruiter is that they get ghosted essentially. So I think a unfortunate. Stereotype of the recruiter role is that if you're not of use to them, they just forget about you.

And I get it 'cause I'm on the other side with the high numbers that a lot of the roles need to hit. It's, they just don't have time for it. But being able to close out the loop of, you know, providing the feedback of the interview to the candidate so that the candidate knows, like, okay, this is why it happened that way, and I can live with that.

It, it makes a world of a difference. So I've always tried to do that with my candidates and I've always noticed it once, it's happened to me as well on, on the on the interviewing side of it. I've taken note of interview of recruiters that reached out to me, [00:41:00] closed the loop and it's made a world of a difference on the experience side.

So I try to make sure to. To do that as well. And I find if you do that, you're 10 times better recruiter than 90% of the recruiting world right now. 

J.R.: Okay. So the goal is to create a great experience for your clients or the, you know, the perspective person looking for a job. And the best way to do is obviously to communicate, treat him like a human, and do your best to get that.

Max: Exactly. 

J.R.: Okay. Anything else on that topic before we switch over? I know this was a chunky topic, but I think it was a lot of good stuff. 

Max: Yeah, no I think I think that's pretty much it. 

J.R.: Fashion, music, sneakers. I think we mentioned this before, this might not be a very deep topic, but you mentioned it as something that you're passionate about or these topics you're passionate about or interested in.

How would you describe the influence of fashion to who you are? How you think, how did you get into it? Sneakers as well, and I guess we can tack on music, if that [00:42:00] makes sense. 

Max: Yeah, no, of course, of course. I actually best way I'd describe it, if we go back to if we go back to high school during that time when I first started in freshman year I think I wasn't too.

I, I didn't have a brain for like, clothing yet or even choose clothing. I kind of just wore what I wore, what I liked at the time. It wasn't until I believe there was a comment made by like some girl at the time that would say like, oh if he dressed like some of the height beasts, he would be like, he would look way better.

And that just kind of stuck with me at the time. So I was like, damn, don't I dress that bad? 

J.R.: Shots fired. 

Max: I know. I was like, damn. I was like, I didn't think it was that. If he just looked better, 

J.R.: he would be better. 

Max: No. Yeah. I mean, I think 'cause it was more of like, I had, I mean, at the time the way that I read it, it was like, oh, I had the looks.

I just was dressing [00:43:00] bad. You know what I mean? So I kind of like nerfed my, my appeal at the time. So I kind of like stuck with me a little bit. I was like, fine, I'll change. So, but there was that aspect. But the other one too was that sneaker culture was a huge, huge thing.

In my school specifically with like skate shoes at the time, there was a Nike shoe called the Janowski that everyone would have like their own specific colors in. So everyone would have like their own personal or not. Yeah, it was kinda like their own colorway. They would pick up and then we would like associate that person with the shoe.

So I was like, oh man, I kind of wanna join in on this. There was that, there was a Roshi run if you ever there's like, the Roshi run from Nike, that was another one. And then also at Kanye West was very big at the time as well. And so once the, like the Yeezy shoes the Red Octobers came out, that was also pretty huge.

I mean, I think only one person at was cool. What ended up getting them was a wore morale. It was treated like a God at the time. But that, that whole like [00:44:00] culture really interested me. I think the community aspect of it, the collectible aspect of it I think really fascinated me. And so I wanted to be part of it.

When it came to fashion, I think I had another close friend at the time. He was super into avant garde fashion. He brought me over to his house one time and he pulled out this huge gray box and he opened it up. It's this big chunky converse looking, it's like a chuck all star looking shoe, but like inflated to massive proportions.

And he was like, yeah, you ever heard of Rick Owens? And I was like, I don't think, I don't think I have. And so he brought it out as this fully leather calf leather sneaker. It just looks like a converse, but it's like clown proportions. And he's like, yo, try this on. I got this on sale from Essence.

And I put 'em on. I was like, ah, man, this feels out my budget. Like this is no way. And then after that, I think we were on like Reddit or something, searching different, like [00:45:00] fashion designers he was interested in. And then it's like a whole new world I got introduced to especially when it came to, it felt a little more prestigious, I guess.

So that kind of gave me a little bit of a lure to it. I was like, oh, okay, I can take one step above and just be more of like a high fa be part of like the high fashion aspect of it. And then, there was also some friends in school that would wear like certain designer items. Su Oh, Supreme was another gateway drug into fashion.

I would say. Back when Supreme was at its peak 2016, everyone wanted Supreme. There's people with box logos and then also because of the hype of Supreme, there was always these smaller streetwear brands that would be very like, niche and like local that we would try to cultivate. And there was like, oh, I'm rocking this brand.

No, I'm rocking this brand. Oh, I made this brand. And then just I think having that aspect and just kind of seeing everyone as like a creator at that point too, I was like, oh, this is [00:46:00] kind of interesting. And then I got to see. I got to look up, you know, different fashion designers like, like Rick Owens, like, like, you know, others in that space and try to see them as more like artists.

And I try to look past just to close. Like why are you making the codes this way? You know, what's the reason for, why are you charging like 700 bucks for a t-shirt? All that kind of stuff. And just, yeah, I fell down the rabbit hole from there. 

J.R.: Hmm. That's fascinating. I, it's always, so I had another guest who was really into high fashion and it's so interesting to hear someone talk about like, how they got into it, their perspective and what they've learned. 'Cause I'm like, this is an alien world to me. I like, know nothing about fashion or designers and whatnot.

I guess I have two questions follow up, like jumping off points as well, which is one. What do you think is interesting that you think most mainstream normalish people don't know about fashion designer, fashion, et cetera, that you know, that you think it'd be interesting to speak on?

And then two, this [00:47:00] might be a little bit of an offshoot, but how does one develop their own style, I guess, like a fashion or whatever. 

Max: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I can start on the second one first 'cause that one I can answer a little bit easier. When developing your own style, I think a lot of people try too hard at first, and it's kind of a phase that you, you kind of have to go through.

When, when we look at like, maybe certain TikTok videos, YouTube videos of like, oh, here's how to, here's how to create your own style. A lot of it seems kind of like. I don't know. See, a lot of it seems kind of pretentious especially when it comes to like, oh, creating a capsule wardrobe.

Well, I wanna make it minimal, da da. I think really at the end of the day, keeping that like, normy mentality of just, I just wanna wear what I like, that will make you more individual than trying to curate, intentionally curate, I guess a closet, [00:48:00] like hyper fixate on curating a clo closet. I guess if you just kind of naturally gravitate to certain pieces, if you naturally gravitate kind of like with a gut instinct, don't think about like too hard on hard, why you like it.

You can think about that later, I guess if you're trying to like cut down your closet a little bit. But when you're first like, drawn to a piece, you, at least for me, I kind of have like a gut feeling like, oh, I like how this looks. I kind of just wanna wear it. If it clashes with whatever colors that I'm doing, then so be it.

If it looks weird, if it looks ugly to other people, I dunno. I like it, so let me do it. I think that if you have that mentality as an individual, it's gonna be a lot easier to kind of like find your style. And you might not even notice it during that process too. Other people might say it for you, be like, oh, I like your style.

And then in your head you're just kind of like, well, I was just kind of like wearing whatever I wanted to wear. Starting off that way will make things a lot [00:49:00] easier. 'cause then you won't have to like, overthink too much of like, oh, these colors don't match. Oh, these patterns like clash.

I mean, you'll know if they clash 'cause it'll look ugly to your eyes. At the end of the day it's your style and you can do whatever you want with it.

There was like this trend, for a couple years, even present day where for men's fashion they would talk about proportions.

So they were like, okay, to make sure you had the perfect proportions you had to do like a t-shirt that was slightly cropped and then make sure that your leg your legs were elongated. So you had to have like a high wasted shirt, or no high, sorry, high wasted pants to kind of make sure you had like the perfect proportions to make sure you don't look like small.

Now you got everyone like, just dressing that way and it's not really like, unique anymore. And it's like a rule book that people feel like they need to follow. But you I feel like you lose yourself into like overthinking it and you're like, oh, I have to dress this way 'cause, or else I'm gonna look like short and frumpy if I don't.[00:50:00] 

But I, I think the main thing that if I were to tell someone I want it, if they're asking me how do I get my own individual style, really at the end of the day, just pull what you like, like just throw it on what you like. Because if you overthink it, it's just gonna be way too stressful and it's not even worth it at the end of the day.

J.R.: Okay. So you're saying like it's more intuitive, more of a gut feeling than anything? Not really. Like try not to overthink things, with style. Just kind of wear what you like, what you think looks good on you or et cetera. And then naturally you'll sort of find your style. 

Max: Yeah. Exactly. That's how I feel.

Of course if you're interested in learning more about why things are created the way it is and why a fabric looks good to you in the first place. Start off by going by the gut feeling, and then you can ask yourself, why is my gut feeling telling me [00:51:00] this?

Like, why do I like this fabric? Why am I always gravitated this fabric? What is it about it? Because then you can kind of explain why you like something instead of just going like, ah, you know, just. Like it 'cause I like it. 

J.R.: Yeah. Like the technical aspects of like why patterns or like structure or weight or layering or whatever. Like those things that are more of like a technical, like if you kind of know the lingo, you know how things work, you can dig into that. But you're saying to start off like as the tip of the iceberg, it's just kind of wear what you think you gravitate towards and then you can go deeper, right? 

Max: Exactly. I think that's the best way to do it. And it will be the most true to yourself and, and your style. Your style will change. Your style will change for sure, but at least you in that specific time. What of what you're exposed to and your influences, it will show in what you gravitate to at that time.

J.R.: Yeah. I wanna get your thoughts on one last thing on this topic, but so whenever as an outsider to fashion, [00:52:00] right, like I see people who are actually fashionable. What I've noticed, my perspective is that. I guess the people who are more fashion oriented seems to be that it's more following like the trends or the looks that are in style or in season or fashion or like the, I don't know, like my friend said the silver like style, I don't even know what that is, but like, he's like, yeah, there's that, or like the, you know how baggy jeans are more in and before it was like skinnier jeans or like you're saying, or a lot of friend dance friends who like guys and girls will wear like the crop tops, right.

With whatever else. And so as an outsider, someone who's not really like in that world, what I, how I see fashion is more just like, okay, people are just picking on these trends and yeah, they're very intentional with their outfits and that's cool and everything, but it seems more like they're just kind of following what's in right now as opposed to someone who is not contrarian but really just kind of doing their own thing.

They don't really care what's trending out there. I dunno if you have any thoughts on that, but I was just kind of like my brain vomit. 

Max: Yeah. Yeah. [00:53:00] And to speak on that, I think. At least my personal perspective. I feel like there will always be a for anyone that has like a slight gravitation to fashion in general, there will always be a level of trend hopping of what they call so like you said, back in early 2010s, it was skinny jeans and like joggers.

Then as we're getting into 2020s, it's a bit more wider, like pants wide jeans. I think everyone's going to follow those trends to a certain level. And even if they say they don't, they're actively like. They're actively working against it. So either way, you still have to be very, like, apparent to the trends.

Or you have to be very aware of the trends. It there's like, there's and there's different ways to look at it. There's the mainstream trend of like, for example, there's the genes [00:54:00] aspect and then there's more of like the sub niches that people like hop onto and just kind of learn as they go.

So I guess if I were to kind of, like, like break that apart, like if you notice yourself getting into more like punk fashion or something a bit more rugged, you're still gonna follow the trends of something a bit more punk and rugged. Same thing with a little bit more like preppy and like, maybe like. Uniform like based.

You're still gonna follow what the modern trends are for that kind of like, sub genre of of fashion. So I think trends are always kind of, gonna be there for the most part. And the way that you're looking at it, I don't think it's wrong. I don't think it's wrong at all.

And if you wanna think of fashion that way, I don't blame you of people just following trends at the end of the [00:55:00] day. You know what I mean? 

J.R.: Yeah. I think it's because like in a very black and white perspective, it's like, okay, here's. Let's say categorize people into like, okay, people really don't care.

They just kind of wear what's comfortable, what they want. And then there's people who you can tell they're more fashion aware or intentional. And in my brain, a majority of those people, it's like, oh yeah, they're really just hopping on trends. And then I say that like, I generalizing obviously, 'cause there's a lot of fashion people who have like, and there's so many genres, niches, sub niches, et cetera.

But it, to me, it's like, okay, I can tell that you're, you fall on the camp of like more fashion aware, but then you will 80 to 90% of the time fall into like, oh, you're basically wearing trendy clothes. Like stuff that's in so to speak. So I, yeah, so I, that's kinda like my perspective. 

Max: Yeah. And I, 

J.R.: nothing, nothing wrong with that too.

Max: Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that. I mean, it, it kind of speaks well, it speaks to. [00:56:00] Maybe what they value in fashion at the end of the day. There's, there are those that like the status aspect of it. There's some that, like the construction, there's some that just like the the designer behind it, there's some that they see it as an art.

There's some that see it, you know, there's a lot of different nuance to it. And I feel like even the people that don't, that say they don't care about fashion, they do to a certain extent. I feel like, 'cause one you're fine. You're gonna wear something that's comfy, but and that's already like a whole like niche on its own, like comfy clothing, you know what I mean?

So you're gonna get, you're gonna get your L athletic, you get your whatever. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Max: Yeah. Athletic. That's why ath athleisure, athleisure is its own, like, big industry in itself. And That's 

J.R.: right. 

Max: You can't say that's not like a, a sub genre on a fashion. You know what I mean? It's like, it's still something I see.

It's just. Under the guise of like, oh, I don't care. Lemme just get something comfy that's already like its own sub genre of fashion. You know what I mean? So yeah.

J.R.: I get what you're saying. Like you're saying more [00:57:00] people are more fashion aware than they think. 

Max: Yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent.

It's more than they, they're willing to admit.

J.R.: That makes sense. 

Yeah. Cool. Okay, awesome. Let's keep it moving 'cause I don't wanna take too much more of your time, but with topic three, I guess the meat of what I wanna get into in relationships, proposing, et cetera.

And like we mentioned, you recently engaged, congrats again. The big question I feel like on most people's mind is how do you know that the person you're with, your partner is the right person? Like, what are the thresholds, the values, the check boxes the indicators, the factors that lean more towards, okay, it's the right person.

You cross that sort of threshold as opposed to other people who are like either in various stages of they're looking for a partner they're just dating, they're more long-term serious, or they're on the cusp of getting engaged or they are engaged, et cetera. What are your thoughts on, I know it's personal to each person, but I think your perspective is valuable.

What do you think? 

Max: Mm-hmm. Of course. Like you said, it's gonna be based off per person, [00:58:00] but. My general rule of thumb. And then what kind of helped me decide overall was who could I spend the hardest of times with? If everything goes rock bottom, if everything, if if I end up, if my life, you know, turns for the worst for whatever reason, you know, who, who is, who do I feel like is gonna be there?

You know, every step of the way. There's that aspect on a personal level, but then also even a relationship level, if the relationship goes really rocky you know, really really, you know, sour who can I trust to have the. Ability to sit down, work through the problems that life throws at us, and who do I trust a hundred percent that you know, these are just like valleys [00:59:00] in the peaks of our lives.

You know, who can I trust to help hike up that hill with me? And so I feel like the positive times will always be there and will always come if you feel confident that your partner is going to be there during the hard times. And if you feel confident for yourself that you'll have the you'll have the motivation to also support your partners.

Just kind of have that mutual relationship there. E even in the worst of times that's when you know you're with the right person. That's how I kind of. A decision myself. I've been with Michelle for 10 years now, and we've seen a lot in our life. And not once did I feel that it, I would've benefited from her not being there.

So that's how I'm, that's how I kind of think of it. If I were to [01:00:00] make just one, there's a lot of other things I can probably talk on, but if I were to think of one that doesn't get talked about enough, probably because it's a real situation that happens with a lot of relationships, you know, it's just the rocky times come, it's gonna happen.

And just, so how are you going to navigate it? And do you trust the other partner will navigate it with you? You know, when it comes. 

J.R.: I see. Okay. So it seems like, I mean, maybe this is one thing, but I kind of saw it as two, which is one, someone who you think would be great to be with in those tough times to support you, be there for you and vice versa. But also someone who is willing to work through those rocky points with you, right?

Whether it's because of each other or with external stuff, and you kind of work through it together. But that might be the same thing, is that what you're saying? 

Max: Exactly. Exactly. Because in a relationship, not only do you have to grow or I guess in life, you have to grow individually, but then you also have to grow together as well.

And that [01:01:00] could be in the ways that you communicate with each other, that could be in trying to find new ways to keep the relationship entertaining, especially being in a long-term relationship as I'm pretty sure most people wanna be in. It's going to be times where things just have to change.

You know? Things have to change and you have to trust that, parties can grow together during that, you know, long, long periods of being together. 

J.R.: I guess that's kind of my last question, which is like, what do you think are the keys to sustaining a long-term relationship? In your case, 10 plus years?

The insight or the question coming from, like you said, people who want to have a long-term relationship, but it's so easy to have a relationship when you're in the honeymoon phase. You're on the cocaine brain of hormones of like, oh my God, this person, they can't do any wrong. But I think the value of the relationship is how you can get through the tough times, like you said.[01:02:00] 

But in your opinion, what do you think are some of those keys to sustaining a long relationship?

Max: One is communication. I think communication is, as I feel like most people would say is the biggest thing. You have to be open with your partner. Yeah. So the main ones, I think being open in terms of how you feel as a person about like, like certain life events that you guys might experience through together.

I think if you bottle things up too much, it backfires a little bit, especially if you don't agree with say like how your partner reacted to the certain scenario or how or anything of like, similar to that nature if you don't like nip it in the bud and be like open and be like, Hey, I was kind of uncomfortable of how you did this and this and this.

Or I was uncomfortable of how you know, we went about this of our day, you know, X, y, and Z. I think being open and if both parties are matured to be able to talk about it, I think it [01:03:00] helps kind of. Understand each other a little bit better and where our boundaries are setting the boundaries of certain things too really helps.

That's pretty general stuff. But the other one I wanted to touch on was, making sure there's enough space to grow as individuals. Mm-hmm. Because I think what's helped sustain the relationship is the, our ability to grow as individuals.

'cause then it kind of seems like we're dating not essentially new person, but there's something new to learn about them like every other year. Like for example with Michelle, she only started bodybuilding probably about three-ish years ago. And if you asked me if she would've done that like six years ago I would've thought you were crazy.

I, I, that was not an avenue I thought she would explore. And just seeing the dedication that she put into it, seeing how easy it was for her to you know, get up on stage and win first [01:04:00] place in some of the competitions. It's being able to see your partner grow and having the ability to grow in front of your partner, I think really helps sustain the relationship.

'cause it shows that you're not stagnant, I guess that's what I'm trying to say. 

J.R.: Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense because sustainability, it's kind of like. Man, and what's that? Tony Robbins quote, if you're green, you're growing, if you're red, if you're ripe, you're rotting. It's so, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. If to help the relationship is you need individual growth, and that individual growth will keep it fresh, new, and progressing as opposed to like, yeah, we're all, we're comfortable.

We're just checking it in. We're not doing anything to improve ourselves or this relationship. And that is not a good recipe right. 

Max: And it's fine. Well, it's fine to have those periods though. Of course of comfortability. It's it's very natural to have those periods of comfortability. You can't grow. I mean, you can grow all the time if you wanna try, but you'd be very tired. You [01:05:00] need to, you need times to just enjoy the fruits of your labor. We've worked hard to get to this point of our relationship. Let's enjoy. Let's take some time to sit and smell the flowers of where we're at right now. Enjoy the present and not always just kind of look to the future and just kind of like, 

J.R.: right.

Max: Keep chugging along. Does that make sense? 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. So I get what you're saying. So you're, that is like, in the perspective of, the extreme end of that is just constant grinding and not appreciating and relaxing and sort of thing like that. So I get that and yeah I totally agree. I guess I'm more approaching and there's perspective of how do you sustain a good long-term relationship?

And I think in life, yeah, we do need to stop and smell the roses and kind of relax and kind of recuperate.

But I don't think that's mutually exclusive to a good relationship, which is like, okay, if the problem that you're running into is our relationship is stagnating and there's nothing to really strive towards.

And that [01:06:00] might be a reason why a relationship crumbles. Then I think to the other counterpoint, if you're kind of growing and you're as a couple, but also as individuals that might be more of an invigorating, sustaining sort of polarity that keeps it together for longer. 

Max: No, so just to jump off that point too, like, even, you know, when you grow as individuals you'll know a couple things. You'll know if you still want to grow together, and then if you find yourselves growing apart, then that's a conversation you guys have to make at that time as well.

But at least it is going to eventually be a net positive for, you know, both parties. 'cause you guys are growing and it's not like, to your point, if you're just staying comfortable and staying stagnant, there could possibly be like some pent up, maybe regret or even just like, oh, I'm stuck. You know what I mean?

J.R.: Yeah. Of course. 

Max: At least if you're growing apart, there's some growth there. 

J.R.: Yeah. Yeah. And I think even just [01:07:00] only on the outset of a relationship situation, I think as human beings we're, we tend to be happier when we're growing and progressing towards something.

And that's not to be synonymous with hustle culture and grinding and not having rest.

Right. I mean, like, right. Like, I think when we're growing, we're typically happy. I like, I listened to a Tony Robbins podcast recently where he was exactly saying that thing. He's like, you know, people ask him all the time, how do I become happy? And usually the answer 99 times out of a hundred is like, are you growing? Are you progressing somewhere in life? Because usually that progress, it's like the difference between the happiness of a multimillionaire who won the lottery versus the happiness of someone who became like a quadriplegic or something like that. Right. Their happiness levels after about five years levels out.

And why is that? Just because the progression of getting to a goal is more important than the goal itself. Like being dropped at that point. Right. And so I think it's a good insight if you take that now, that per that lesson of okay, growth usually equals happiness almost all the [01:08:00] time. If you are feeling like you can't sustain a relationship, maybe it's like check your guys' ability to grow together and also by yourself.

Mm-hmm. And like you said, you probably won't lose from growing anyways because it's like, even if you grow apart, at least you guys know that was the right decision and you're still both happy. Right. 

Max: Exactly. Exactly my point. 

J.R.: Alright, let's if, if there's anything else, otherwise let's jump into rapid fire. You good? 

Max: Let's do that. Let's do it. 

J.R.: Sweet. Okay. I might jump around a bit, but first question, billboard question. If you could put up a sign for millions of people to see, metaphorical non-commercial, what would it say?

Max: Five seconds. Five seconds. Let's see.

J.R.: And you can pass any of these too. 

Max: I would say look up, because I think that it would help, kind of like going back to host culture and like even just like everyone's just surviving at the end of the day. There's a lot of like fast moving things and everyone's lives.

If they could just like take time to just look up to the [01:09:00] sky and just breathe for about 10 seconds, I feel like it would help kind of reduce cortisol levels. 

J.R.: Okay. This part or just like stop at smell the roses. Gotcha. 

Max: Yeah, exactly. It's another way of saying that. 

J.R.: If you could give your younger self advice, what would it be?

Max: Study. It's like study I mean, yeah. I would wanna see, I would wanna see, what I would've what would've happened if maybe I took school a little serious. But on more of a, maybe a more of a actual, probably real answer. It's every, everything will work out. Every, everything will work out.

It's a, I would hope to make sure that younger mes keeps that mentality. I still have that mentality now, and I just wanna make sure it's reinforced. Even at a young age 

J.R.: in the last few years, what new belief, behavior, or habit has improved your life the most? 

Max: Waking up early waking I now wake up at 5:00 AM pretty consistently to go to the gym and then start my workday afterwards.

Growing up [01:10:00] I was the type to wake up at like 12 maybe 1:00 PM pretty consistently sleep at like three, four making that adjustment. As hard as it was has improved my life a lot. I can say that. 

J.R.: Was the catalyst just because you wanted to get your workout early or was there something else?

Max: Well, I was forced to do it because my fiance for bodybuilding, she would wanna go to the gym before her workday and get it out the way. And me being the supportive, well boyfriend at the time I would be like, all right, I'll go with you. And so it took, it took a minute. It took a minute, but I end up liking it and now I can't go back. There's no way. 

J.R.: That's awesome. It was like a win-win then supporting her, but also then, 

Max: Yeah, it is a win-win. 

J.R.: How do you define success?

Max: Good question. I know what I'm probably, I feel like. I should say, but if I just go with a gut feeling for me now, I would say like [01:11:00] happiness how how happy, I guess if I'm judging myself specifically how happy am I at this present day? Am I, do I love life? You know? 

J.R.: I like it.

I guess follow up to that how happy are you what contributes to happiness in your opinion? 

Max: Mm-hmm. For me I think it, it goes back to my love language, which is quality time. So if I'm able to spend enough time with one Michelle my fiance two family, three friends I think being able to cultivate those relationships and having the freedom to do that, I think.

I think contributes to the happiness majority of the time. Nice. 

J.R.: Yeah. Relationships. I like that. What is something that separates the younger version of you from the current version of you?

Max: Discipline. I think now, me now compared to me 10 years ago, I'm way more [01:12:00] disciplined in putting in the work to achieve the goals I want.

I'm not perfect. I'm definitely not as disciplined as maybe some other people I know, but I am lot better than what I was 10 years ago and I'm glad I can at least reap some benefits I'm getting from it nowadays. 

J.R.: What is something you've been pondering a lot recently or something you think about often, deeply?

Max: Mm-hmm. I think about getting a new hobby. That's, I guess the main thing I think about right now is I daydream a lot and usually when I daydream, I I picture my life in scenes like from a movie and that I've been trying to dabble in a little bit of like just film in general in, in videography.

Trying to capture my daily life as much as I can just so that I can look back on it.

I want to be able to capture life the way I see it. And for me, that's not just doing a vertical [01:13:00] iPhone video. Majority of the time. It's needed sometimes, but it's not. 

J.R.: Favorite hot take or something you think most people won't agree with?

Max: Favorite hot take? Favorite hot take would be I love pineapples on pizza. I do love that, that's my favorite. Salty, that's my favorite hot take. It's more common now, but, you know, I just, I, it doesn't make me love it less. 

J.R.: Nice. Yeah. I mean, there's, I feel like there's nothing wrong with salty Sweet, right?

Like, there's a lot of traditional, not traditional, there's a lot of widely accepted foods that have that sort of thing, but Pineapple peas that just has the spearhead of being like that controversial, right? 

Max: It does. Oh, and to add on top of that too fruits in your poke bowl. So I know there's some, there's some places that put like I've had people put apples in the poke bowl at like some poke places.

J.R.: Same with like, there's pineapple. 

Max: There is pineapple in some of them too. So, I always, if there's an option, I always get it. 

J.R.: Yeah, I usually just put everything on it too. 

Max: Oh, nice. 

J.R.: Okay. Yeah. Here's one thing I don't [01:14:00] think I've asked a lot, but what are, what do you think are some of the differences between how you see yourself versus how others see you, if any?

Max: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think a lot of people see me,

you know, I think a lot of people, the way that I hear the comments that are given to me, I feel like I feel it's a lack of a better terminology. I feel like they hype me up a lot and then I'm like, I don't see what the big deal is for the most part.

One way I would say is my my fashion sense is one. Even though I'm like a big fan of it, and I've obviously spent a lot of time on it I wouldn't consider myself like hugely like, like the best person to dress or anything like that.

But I, I've had people come up to me and just trying to ask you know, styling, tips, all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, I feel like you're giving me way too much credit. But it's it, maybe that's one thing that I appre I appreciate at the end of the day because I do put effort into it.

But it's just interesting to [01:15:00] see how much of high regard it gets, or at least they tell me in their eyes compared to me. 

J.R.: Okay, second to last favorite recent purchase in the $50 to $100 range that has impacted your life the most in the last six months?

Max: Yeah. You know what, actually what changed my life recently was I kind of alluded to it earlier. I don't know if I did it on, on, on the recording here, but it's the new the league trading card game that I've been playing no ad, but this nice.

It's called riff bound. The it's very hard to get. Very, very hard to get right now. I had to go to an event last Sunday where they would basically give everyone random packs. They would get actually random packs like this to break open. This like the seal packs. You have to create a deck from it.

And then everyone just played off the random cards they got. 

That was pretty fun. And that was my first time, like actually going into it and playing in person. I used to play Yu Gi Oh back in the day, but this was my first introduction back into like a trading guard game. [01:16:00] And I think it's, I think it has pushed the ball down the hill for me to like, get back into it.

I've already I've already tried to plan different events for me to go to and get back into it overall, so that's gonna change my life probably a little bit. 

J.R.: Nice. Nice. How do you spell RIF Bound? How do 

Max: you spell that? Yeah. R-I-F-T-B-O-U-N-D.

J.R.: Rift Bound. 

Max: Okay. And then, yeah, I mean, if you put up like League of Legends card game, they, it'll come up.

J.R.: Okay. Gotcha. 

Max: But it's it's very fun. Takes a little bit to get used to. I don't even, I don't even know all the rules for a lot of these cards, but it's, I think that's the fun of it, to be honest. Especially, 'cause it just came out the game is probably almost a year old now, and everyone's just learning.

J.R.: It's like a pioneer's, like new unexplored territory. 

Max: Mm-hmm. 

J.R.: Last rapid fire question. Any favorite books, movies, videos, articles, or any media at all that you share or recommend the most? 

Max: That I share? Any media, books, articles?[01:17:00] 

Yeah. That's a good question and I'm trying to break it down to one that I want to do. I think one that I've been influenced by a lot. It's not a, it's not a specific article. It's not even a, it's not even a specific form of media. It's more so general. Like, it's not kind of weird, but like atmospheric playlists and so like atmospheric, like musical playlist. I think I start my, I've been recently, I've been starting my day just playing playing like atmospheric playlists, like random Spotify shuffle of like atmospheric music.

And it's 

J.R.: Do you have an example of like what, what it's called or what it sounds like? 

Max: Yeah. I mean, it's quite cinematic. It's it really sounds more of like a movie soundtrack, I guess without maybe of the leads that are like sticky in your head. Like think maybe like the Superman theme if it didn't have like the main.

Hos in it, or like the main lead that kind of gives you like, oh, [01:18:00] that's the Superman theme. If they use, if you just take that part out and just have like a regular background music in there. 

J.R.: Yeah. Like you're in a movie basically, like you're the main character. 

Max: Yeah. Like you can imagine a monologue on them or something like that.

I think, starting my day off that way is like a form of meditation that I've been kind of dabbling in for the most part. It kind of, I've noticed it helped kind of sparks my creativity in the morning and then helps me focus a little bit more, or at least gets me energized in a different way rather than just usually going to the gym and listening to EDM, I mean, yeah, it's like a, it's like a different head space. 

J.R.: One, I definitely, I'm definitely gonna try that out. It sounds interesting. Two, what would someone look up or type in to get something that you would be listening to? Just to get the technical. 

Max: Yeah. Right, right, right. Honestly, to be very blunt, that's, that, that is exactly what I type into, like Spotify. Literally I type in atmospheric music and I choose [01:19:00] probably, I don't choose a Spotify creative ones because it goes based off your algorithm and it's not gonna, it's not gonna give something new. So I try to find something the user made. If I find a specific one that I've been going to, I could probably send it to you, but I've been just trying random ones just to kind of figure out what I like.

I think one reason why I liked it is 'cause I'm very influenced by, I, if you've ever been aware of the company's called Team Labs, but there was a, there's a, they do like interactive museums. Are you familiar with that by the way? Or, 

J.R.: I went to a team lab when I went to Japan in December, and it was amazing.

Max: Oh, okay. Yes. Yes. My first one, that's exactly the ones I'm thinking of. Yeah, exactly what I'm thinking of. And it's reminds me of that kind of headspace I get when I'm in those kind of environments. And I'm a big fan of those kind of environments. It's very, and I guess it's show it back to my influence of kind of sci-fi.

It gives me that sci-fi kind of outer worldliness that I kind of just wish my life was in, you know? 

J.R.: [01:20:00] Mm. Okay. So I was gonna ask like, where did you get this idea from? Was it just because you, like, went to a team labs and you're like, okay, let's recreate this? Or did someone suggest it? Or how did you 

Max: I wanted to be in, I think I just got bored of my music one day and I just wanted to put it on.

And I noticed when I, like I, me, I think I mentioned before a little earlier here, when I daydream, I kind of daydream in like movie scenes. Like I try to imagine my life as like a movie scene, like how I'm, how am I, like how would I picture recording my life and how would I, what, how would I wanna, how would I wanna picture it?

I think hearing that kind of soundtrack helps get me in that space. 'cause it would probably be some of the type of tracks I'd be putting if I were to edit my own life that way, essentially. 

J.R.: Interesting. That's fascinating. I can see you if you eventually get into film. I feel like this would be such a cool experience, just the way your head thinks and how you're directing towards it.

You're like, [01:21:00] yeah, I think music soundtrack is a big part of it and I feel like, especially anyone who is a big fan of cinema, like I feel like the soundtrack really makes a film like pop. So I think that's super cool. 

Max: A hundred percent. That's my next hobby. I wanna dive deep to, I've always been a fan of movies overall, and I have like certain films I, I returned to, but I've never delved deeper into the art in general.

So I kind of wanna del deeper this year not only from like a consumer standpoint, but also as like a creator as well. So I'll see I say that now, but we'll see how it goes by the end of the year. 

J.R.: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's on my, that's on my bucket list too, is to get into film. Like, I have so many things on there to do, but like film is definitely one on my phone.

I'll make some films.

Max: I'll look forward to it. Cool. 

J.R.: That is, yeah. Yeah. Maybe one day eventually if we actually get into it, maybe we'll collab or something. That'll be fun.

Max: Yeah. Awesome. 

J.R.: Cool. All right, so we've come to the end of rapid fire. You made it. Congrats.

Now we have ending questions. So just to tie [01:22:00] it up, max what are you grateful for? 

Max: I am grateful for. All the relationships I was able, am able to make up until this point of my life, whether that be through my wonderful fiance, my family that I have grown up, you for example, with, and just retaining this kind of relationship. And just all the friends I'm able to cultivate and really have great experiences with. And look back on my life and like, wow I've really had great memories so far and I look forward to seeing what great things come as the years go by.

J.R.: Final ask from the audience or any final takeaways you'd like them to have from this conversation?

Max: Start wearing what you like, just wear what you like. Don't think too hard about it. But no. Other than that maybe go back to my billboard. Look up. Look up [01:23:00] sometimes, just kind of 

J.R.: nice. 

Max: Appreciate the sky. 

J.R.: Look up and wear what you like. I like it. All right. So final question. Final question. Where can we find you if people want to check out what you're up to or potentially connect?

Max: Yeah. Find me on Instagram. I think Instagram will probably be the best way for me. It's Maximilian KAN Maximilian can it's just my full name. But the last three are the initials. 

J.R.: Cool. Awesome. All right, well, thanks Max. Again, I really appreciate it. This was a very fascinating conversation for me.

It was also nice to semi catch up. And yeah, wishing you the best and like, you know, we'll connect again. And so I generally just very appreciate you. 

Max: Thank you. No, I appreciate, I think I appreciate the opportunity being on the podcast here. Thank you for taking the time to just learn more about me and I really appreciated just kind of, you know, sharing my perspective on a platform like this.

J.R.: Okay. Let me do my final sign off for the audience before I stop the recording. [01:24:00] So thank you guys for being here. I really appreciate it. Be sure to like, follow, subscribe. Five stars on whatever platform you're listening to. All that good jazz. Leave us love in the comments. Leave max love in the comments.

And you know, we like that we like to get hyped up.

And reminder to always be kind to other people, especially yourself. And remember that you can always learn something from someone if you take the time to listen. So thank you guys for being here. 

Max: Thank you guys.