#79: Kenta Thomas Naoi - Joyful Movement, Creative Design, Business Coaching, and Building a Life in Europe

Reconnecting Through Movement, Coaching, and Non-Attachment with Kenta Thomas Naoi

J.R. Yonocruz reunites with high school friend Kenta Thomas Naoi, now Denmark-based, to reflect on their dance-era origins and Kenta’s journey from design school to New York entrepreneurship, burnout, and a shift into integrative business coaching. Kenta shares an origin story of losing mobility from transverse myelitis, how movement and storytelling shaped his work, and his current projects Studio Rana and Movement Design Research. They discuss joyful movement, critical thinking, and lessons on non-attachment, expectations, and giving grace.

02:35 High School Dance Memories

06:37 From Design to Europe

11:11 Not With That Attitude

15:02 Coaching and Self-Trust

18:04 Personality Types and Perception

28:37 Mobility Loss and Healing Through Movement

32:10 Connecting the Dots to New York

37:19 Scrappy Survival Jobs

44:27 Agency Growth and Burnout

49:38 Coaching Business Model

55:39 Non-Attachment Lessons

59:06 Joyful Movement Practice

01:03:19 Finding Dance Joy Again

01:08:16 Host Journey and Coaching

01:12:13 Loneliness and Ambition

01:16:38 Integrating Work and Passion

01:18:17 Five to Ten Year Vision

01:22:22 Rapid Fire Begins

01:26:57 Non Attachment and Identity

01:35:18 Critical Thinking and Nuance

01:39:53 Gratitude and Wrap Up

Guest bio:
Kenta is a multi-modal creative-researcher, integrative business coach, designer, inbodied-inquiry practitioner and facilitator, bog-person, and level 4 animist druid world builder. His work often centers the body as location for insight, play, and possibilities for more loving futures. He runs 'movement-design-research', a project in making and moving sustainably, he also runs studio-rana, a movement studio, with his wife, and he talks to cats.

• Instagram: @kentathomas / https://www.instagram.com/kentathomas
• Website: https://kentathomasnaoi.com/

Links/resources:

• #54: Way Liu - Dancer to DJ, Navigating Sobriety, Chronic Back Pain, and Finding Creative Outlets
• Awareness by Anthony de Mello (book summary)
• Built to Move by Kelly & Juliet Starrett (book summary)
• Love and Rage by Lama Rod Owens (Amazon - affiliate link)

Transcript

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J.R.: [00:00:00] Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of One Thousand Gurus with me, your host, J.R. Yonocruz.

Today's episode features Kenta Thomas Naoi. Kenta is a multimodal creative researcher, integrative business coach, designer, embodied inquiry practitioner and facilitator, bog person, and level four animist, druid, world builder.

His work often centers the body as location for insights, play, and possibilities for more loving futures. He runs movement, design, research, a project in making and moving sustainably. He also runs Studio Rana, a movement studio with his wife, and he talks to cats. So if that bio did not make sense to you, don't worry.

I think it was intentional because Kenta is just like that. He's quirky. So we'll get it. You, you'll figure it out when you listen to the episode. But I absolutely love this recording. This was a long time coming, but unfortunately, the reality of two busy adults who live on opposite sides of the world makes scheduling difficult.

But I think challenges like that really make it more special when it does happen and it makes you cherish the [00:01:00] time more. It was great and really grounding to reconnect with a friend who knew you in your formative years, like throughout high school, and I was excited to just see what he's been up to for the last 15 years or so.

We reminisce about our high school dance days, our overall impressions of each other before we became adults, his career journey across the country and to Europe, as well as his hard earned lessons in entrepreneurship and being self-employed. Then also we talk about leaning into his strengths and his desire to collaborate on and build creative projects.

And lastly, we also talk about lessons on joyful movement and non-attachment. I really enjoyed this episode. Definitely gonna listen to it again over and over, and hopefully you guys do too. So without further ado, please enjoy this episode with Kenta Thomas Naoi.

Hello, and welcome back to One Thousand Gurus. Kenta. Welcome to the show. 

Kenta: Hi. Yeah, thanks for having me. 

J.R.: Yeah, thanks for being here, man. I'll insert post, post-production applause. So just FYI. Awesome. There's a ton of, of people cheering for you right now. [00:02:00] 

Kenta: Beautiful. I love it. I'm basking in the glory of me.

J.R.: Yeah, I've been keeping them on edge for the last 20 minutes. Waiting for you to come on stage of. Cool. Let's thank, yeah, thanks for being here. I really appreciate it. You're joining us all the way from Denmark, right? Is it Copenhagen or are you somewhere else? 

Kenta: I'm right outside of OS now, but I do live in Copenhagen.

Yeah. 

J.R.: Oh, yeah, I know where that is. 

Kenta: Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah. Cool. Awesome. Yeah, we'll get into all that, but just I would've already read your bio. Yeah. So thank you for that. Hopefully the audience can deconstruct that because I will, I'm also curious to deconstruct that and, so I guess I'll go into how I know you.

So we go way back. We, from high school days, we were both in hip hop club at Irvington High School. We both worked at Great America. I remember that was very formative for me because we both, that was like some of our first few jobs and we would go and perform at the parade and stuff like that. And tangent, all of our coworkers were so talented.

Do you remember that? I remember being like, dude, I'm not even a dancer or a singer compared to these people. I'm like, [00:03:00] they're so good. They were like professional singers and dancers. Yeah. Yeah. That was a lot of fun. Yeah. We would drive around I would drive us and that was like when I was first starting to learn how to drive and then we would drive back at night on the freeway.

And I think since then I was like, oh yeah, driving's easy because I would do this all the time with my friend. We were in, I was in You were in gymnastics too, right? I know. We did 

Kenta: tricky together. I was, I didn't, yeah, I didn't compete though. Okay. Yeah, that what that I think high school I was doing one too many things, you know?

So, yeah. 

J.R.: No, no, not at all. Kenta was like, like he did everything. 'cause you were you in a SB I'm trying to piece together everything. 

Kenta: Yeah, that's right. I mean, not all the years, but like towards the end I think I was doing yeah. A SB and doing theater dramas and like a bunch of different clubs. Yeah, a bunch of different clubs.

I was technically in the tennis team, which like if anybody Oh, that's right on that team is listening. I'm sincerely sorry. 'cause I was very, very absent and I can actually also tell a story a little bit about that as well. Go for it. But yeah, so I was just doing one too many things to be honest, but I [00:04:00] think I was just always been a very curious person and so I just wanted to try a lot of things, you know?

Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah. That's awesome. I feel like a lot of my guests on the show are just like this archetype of, they just like to try new things and learn stuff, so you fit right in. Yeah. Let's see. So yeah, high school. Hiphop dance, gymnastics, bboy, tricking. You did a lot of different things. We, Lou, who was a previous guest on the show was also, he mentioned he name dropped you and that was like part of the sort of catalyst for asking you on the show because we were fourth years when he was a first year and he was also kind of doing theater a little bit or stage, and then he started to get into dance, like hip hop and popping and isolations and now he's been dancing for he's a crazy dancer.

Yeah, 

Kenta: yeah. He's 

J.R.: awesome. And yeah, no, he's great. And you know, he still lives in Fremont or we moved back there and so hometown, right. We're not there, but he's still back there holding it down. 

Kenta: Yeah. 

J.R.: Let's see. So I think that's the gist of it. Anything I left out? or what else have you been up to?

I know [00:05:00] you're all around, you're Mr. Worldwide. 

Kenta: Yeah. I mean, do I just kind of get into it?

J.R.: Go for it. Yeah. 

Kenta: It's a anything we haven't talked to each other really in like seven years since our 10 year anniversary and high school anniversary. So 2019. there's a lot here when I always feel like when you haven't seen people and they're like, how's it going?

It's like, Ooh.

J.R.: Well, 

Kenta: I, yeah. How deep you wanna go. Yeah. I moved to two different countries you know, but yeah. I just wanted to first say, yeah thanks again for having me. And I, I very fondly remember our friendship in high school. Because even though I tried a lot of different things and there were a lot of different experiences that I was a part of, I think like the core of my high school experience really started with dancing with I forget his last name now, but it was like Josh.

There was like a small group I was part of with Josh. And then, oh man I hope that if they hear it, I'm sorry, I forgot your names now, but but it was like from there I met your sister [00:06:00] and then like you and then oh man, I'm really bad with names now. Catherine? No. Who was the person who always danced with your sister?

J.R.: Oh, oh, oh. Karen. 

Kenta: Yeah, Karen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Karen, Ken. Ken. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Kenta: yeah. Yeah. And I feel like that was such a big part of like how my high school started. So yeah. I think you were like very much like there from the beginning of that kind of like seed into something that has really carried me all the way into my adulthood, which is dance, which is not just the dance and the art, but the culture of hip hop.

And yeah, and just kind of like the impact and like working at Great America and stuff like that together. And yeah. But I think yeah, so I don't know, like basically in short, I guess my, 'cause I guess we'll get into it here, is what have I been up to is I graduated high school. I went to school for design.

I wanted to go to school for film. But it was like gonna take too long to graduate and I was like, really? Over college? So I was just like, what can I take to graduate early? And I've always wanted to build my [00:07:00] own businesses and do my own thing, especially like creative businesses. And a part of it was because I've always been somebody who's valued and just couldn't really help myself from pursuing creative routes of expression and firmly believe that's kind of my way of contributing to the world.

And at the same time it was like a very stubborn thing. We'll go, I guess it's part of the topics for later, but just people telling me like, oh, there's no place for Asian Americans in the film industry, you're never gonna make it as a creative, you know? And there was this like, part of me that wanted to kind of be like, can I cuss, cuss on this podcast?

Yeah, go for it. Okay. So adult friendly. Yeah. I was like, fuck you, man. Like, you know, like, I just like, I'm gonna make this work, right? I want to prove there's a lot of proving energy I think when you're younger, right? So yeah. I mean, so design for me just fit because it was such a skillset that I needed to have for building like a clothing company, which is what at that time was like, that's how I was thinking.

That was thinking like I do a clothing company and then use the clothing company to fund other artists. That was my plan. And that's where [00:08:00] the creators unlocked my, one of my very first ventures happened, which I think then way got. Started Creators University, which was like a club at our high school at one point, I think.

Oh. And yeah. And then from there I was, I started a bunch of different mini ventures. Like I started a magazine company. I worked at an art gallery for a little bit, so on and so forth. That took me to New York. And then in New York, it was just like so difficult to try and build my business.

I'm just giving you the quick highlights. Mm-hmm. And I was starting to like, try to create my own creative agency and I was super young. I didn't really know what I was doing. Instagram and YouTube and all this stuff that we have now is was not around in the same capacity. And so I did my best, but like at the end of the day, I needed to pay rent.

So I ended up working for a startup for a little bit. And then after that I've just been like working for myself. Like I started a creative agency and just did that until I burnt out and I left New York and then I moved to Germany. Then my life kind of changed from there. And [00:09:00] yeah, like in New York, I also met my wife, so there was just now wife.

So, yeah, I don't know. It's so hard to try to keep like your entire life in cohesion. But yeah, in Germany I started to do coaching, like business coaching, which was a nice jump for me from doing like creative strategy work. 'Cause I was basically already doing consulting for small businesses through my agency, but like through my studio.

So. The business coaching kind of gave me a way to like work more personally with the founders. 'cause I realized at that time that my interest was getting to speak to people and helping people navigate like the emotional and ed energetic turmoil. 'cause I think when I speak to people, most people are smart enough to come up with a strategy or two of like how to build a business.

So the question is always like, why don't you do it? Right? And so getting to work with that like block was kind of my entrance into coaching. Because I got a coach, like when I left New York, I hired a coach. 'cause I was like, what the fuck am I doing? I'm so burnt out. I don't want to go back to that, even though I love doing creative work.

I don't wanna do it in that way again. You know? Yeah. And then [00:10:00] eventually, and then COVID happened and then we moved back to Denmark to be closer to family. And my wife is from Denmark, so yeah man, I've just been here. I'm learning Danish. I'm trying to integrate, yeah. And yeah, and right now I'm kind of in a little bit of another transition period of what I'm.

Puzzling together in terms of my creative career, which is why it took me a little while to get back to you. 'cause I was like, so in, in the zone of figuring out what that was, it just felt weird to come on and talk to you when I was like really, really in the depth of trying to figure out and organize my own thoughts about what it is that I'm doing now.

So, 

J.R.: yeah. Yeah. I like it. That 

Kenta: was a little long, but yeah. 

J.R.: No, that's perfect. Yeah. It's like a reflection question and you're like, oh crap, I need to do some reflection now. I kind of hone it in a little bit just to, so I can Yeah. Cohesively speak on something. Right. 

Kenta: Exactly. Yeah. It wasn't like integrated enough for me to come on and chat with you about it, you know?

J.R.: Yeah. 

Kenta: Yeah. 

J.R.: I love that. Man, there's so many, there's so many jumping off points and questions I have just based on what you were saying oh, that's interesting. Okay. How did that, [00:11:00] okay. I can make an assumption that's what happened. Yeah. But anyways, okay. I would like to, and I think we'll get into a lot of that.

We have a lot of structured questions to make sure we check those boxes of what you mentioned. But I wanted to jump off with okay, well let's reminisce my favorite part of this. So anything from high school or our sort of growing up days that you remember. Fun, interesting, weird, unique stories. And then the second part of that would be like the question that you prompted before the recording, which is like our experiences of each other, how we've seen each other or changed or whatever, and how it is now and how it's evolved through our perception of each other through social media.

I think that'd be interesting. But any good stories that pop out to you in our, in your mind? 

Kenta: I think they're combined. I mean, I think the stories I'll tell, they're probably gonna be mostly a around us. But. There you've come up to, in my mind a couple of times to through my life the last many years is because as you, you would say something that would annoy the crap out of me and [00:12:00] maybe some other people, but it's just stuck with me.

Which was

J.R.: in high school. 

Kenta: In high school, okay. which maybe you still do to yourself and others, which is you would always go not with attitude. Right. 

J.R.: I haven't stopped. 

Kenta: Yeah. And I think that's such a great advice and I think like of course when you're younger, when you're in a place where you just kind of need somebody to empathize with your experience, it's like, can be annoying 

J.R.: 'cause you're like, of course 

Kenta: I don't need that. To me, I to be like, just love me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Accept me as I'm, but it's so true, right? Like even now I'm in the process of trying to piece together all these different branches of like businesses that have been seeding through the years, which like did well and then like kind of, I don't wanna say collapsed, but pulled back a lot the last couple years.

'cause I needed to figure out how it all aligns with like my worldview. I mean, we've been, we're in a very politically and worldly uht tumultuous time, and I'm very sensitive to that. I think a lot, [00:13:00] a big part of my values is how do I participate actively in creating more loving futures? And loving, not as in like the romantic, emotional loving, but like in the ways that we can care for each other, even if we don't always like each other, you know?

And so I'm thinking a lot about that. So I pulled back anyways, now as I'm coming back in trying to figure out how all these things fit together, there's like these old voices in my head, right? Speaking of I used to do a lot of things in high school, and I think a lot of, well-meaning adults and maybe some frustrated peers will always be like, you're doing too much.

Or I always felt like I was too, too much for people that I was kind of like wrong for being kind of like the crazy hair, crazy Kenta, you know? I didn't have long hair back then, but but this was like trying to sprout back then, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And and it took a lot of years to be like, no, no, that's who you are.

It's okay. That's your gift. Your gift is like the gift of gab. You talk a lot, you have a lot of ideas. You're so curious. You do a lot of things. They don't always go everywhere somewhere in this, the socially acceptable, successful [00:14:00] way, but you're pursuing things. You're creating things. And so I have these like voices that come in sometimes and, you know, they'll say that same thing and then I'd be like, yeah, but I can't do it with this attitude. You know, I'd be like, not with that attitude. I can't, like if I'm like really starting to embody the critiques that I've been given by well-meaning, or maybe not so well-meaning people in my past life I'm not gonna be able to get to where I want to be. You know? And there's only one way to get there, it's just to try.

There's no guarantee. But I can try, you know? So it is a little bit long-winded, but I think a really fond memory is just like you being like, not with that attitude, and then it's still like, it's still with me. You know? Like you were my first life coach, man. 

J.R.: We did it.

Now, I've had so many of those experiences too, where it's like someone said something and I have not forgotten it for the last 10, 20 years. Yeah. So you never know what you say that could stick. And I still say that to you. I still annoy everyone. Older, younger, same age, I would say. Not with that attitude.

They're like, 

Kenta: yeah, 

J.R.: okay, sure. Whatever. 

Kenta: Yeah. But like, look [00:15:00] how far you've come, you know, like I respect that. 

J.R.: And I think it's interesting 'cause maybe I'm getting this wrong, but you mentioned when you were doing like business coaching, I think you mentioned that they would have strategy, but kind of why aren't you executing on it?

Is that kind of the similar sort of vibe is they have this thing that they wanna do, but something's holding them back and you're kind of just there to nudge them forward? 

Kenta: Yeah, exactly. I mean, with my business coaching, I think it's, you know, it's different for different people. Obviously not everybody comes to me with the exact same, 

sure 

Kenta: challenges. But the reason why I call myself an integral or integrative coach is because there's a big part of me that thought about maybe going back and being a therapist. I really like talking to people, helping people through kind of the spiritual, emotional, mental navigations of human experience.

And the reason, of course I didn't do that is psychologists and therapists deal with mental health, and I'm more interested in kind of helping people get from point A to point B, which is a bit more of a coaching or like a counseling kind of thing. Yeah. And so some people they're very [00:16:00] they really just like, I don't know, like I don't know how to do it.

So there's like strategy and there's experience that comes in. And it's more like a mentorship where I'm like, okay, well this is what I would do, or this is what I did to get these clients or like to get this through. But I think a lot of people are like. Also on the other hand, are like, they say, I don't know, but it's not, I don't know.

It's, I don't trust myself to know. I have ideas, but I don't trust myself to say, this is a true thing I can try for myself. You know? And so there's a lot of that navigation that needs to happen to get them to, yeah. I mean, a lot of times like to trust and believe, you know, and to heal from some of those like voices, some of those like narratives that they've inherited at different stages of the life and kind of started to embody.

And some of it is of course also structural, like it is how our systems are set up unfairly for certain types of people and stuff like that, you know? So it's also about how do we build resilience? How do we not accept those things as. Like the way things are, but as we move towards like changing some of those [00:17:00] political or like social structures, like how can we, you know, not with attitude, right?

Like how can we have a little bit more of a like every, like I will still do my best to navigate even if it's really hard and it is hard, you know, harder for me than maybe somebody with other privileges, for example. So, 

J.R.: yeah. 

Kenta: Yeah, yeah. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Kenta: I don't know if I answered your question, but that's, those are kind of just like things, yeah.

J.R.: Yeah. You did. And I would love to, we'll probably pick this back up later on because I'd love to pick your brain on the coaching side of it. 'cause I'm also fascinated with the coaching. I do coaching as well, and it's for the exact same reasons I feel like is understanding the psychology of getting someone in particular from A to B.

But there, it's not always just cookie cutter, one size fits all. It is understanding people's. Motivations And how, for me it's reverse engineering. How have you in particular, personally created success or achieve something and seeing how we can reverse engineer those elements of success and then transfer that to what you're trying to do now, instead of just saying, oh, here's [00:18:00] what most people do.

They just do A, B, and C and then they're done. Right? Yeah. But we can get back to that.

I was gonna go back to my conception of you from high school. Yeah. And I know we mentioned the whole, working at Great America and you were doing so many different things. Yeah. If I were to give an analogy in high school, you're like this ball of energy that no one could really like, pin down because you're always doing so many things and you just had all this like vibrancy to you.

And so it's okay, I might show up to this club thing, or he might be doing 10 other things and you're always just either at home and then you're back here and then it's oh, oh, here's kenta. So it's like a, it's a nice surprise to see you, but it's always understood that you were doing 10 other things and you had all this energy that no one could hold you down.

So it's cool to see that in, you know, plus 15 or so years, it's that's still maintained the same sort of vibe. 

Kenta: Yeah. No, I, I appreciate that. Yeah. I think it's very healing also to reconnect with people in your past. Right. Because I do think, like I said earlier there it was a lot of things that I had to work through, which was like the shame that I carried around not being [00:19:00] reliable, not being focused you know, things that I think.

In the way that I grew up at least. So I can't just say our culture, but like in the way that I, the culture around me was very much about do one thing, do really good at that one thing, you know, and become a master kind of thing. Right. And also like reliability and all of that. It really came down to pick one thing, don't do it.

You know? So the fact that I've always just been such a ping pong 'cause that's just the way I function. Yeah. I think there was a lot of like shame oh, I let people down, or people don't take me seriously or you know, Which could have been true. I mean, you know, you say this now as an adult at that time it must have been, there could have been times that are frustrating when somebody doesn't show up to certain things, you know?

So, I take accountability for that now. And also it's of course, you know, it's nice to be like, cool, like I wasn't. Seen in, in the way that maybe the harder parts of myself, the judges myself, had started, had believed that, oh, these people think I'm X, Y, Z, you know? Yeah. Yeah, man. No, I appreciate that.

And yeah, I [00:20:00] think I'm still very much that I'm just learning to embrace it and channel it in a, you know, as you get older, like we talked about earlier, like you start to build systems, you start to know how to ask for help. Like whether it's a therapist or coach or like, when you build a business, you get to a point where maybe you can start hiring people to help you, you know?

Or just accept the limitations of yeah, you're not gonna be a master at one thing. You're gonna, you know, be really good at a bunch of things, but you're gonna be really great at how these things come together. Like, that's the skillset, you know? It's not all the things, but like, yeah.

So, yeah, man, but I wanted to reflect how, like, my perception of you also just to kind of give back, like I said earlier, you I really felt that you were I ke I said this word meticulous earlier and I'm not sure how I can like point it exactly to things that you were doing in high school.

Mm-hmm. But you're, you've always been very, like, do you know what your Myers Brigg Briggs are you like A-E-N-T-J or [00:21:00] like, are you a, 

J.R.: do you 

Kenta: know 

J.R.: you spot on? I'm tj, but I'm n TJ in leadership positions. 

Kenta: Yeah. So that's what you learned, learned in coaching me. No, I'm just kidding. 

J.R.: Hey, prop Steve. Man, I was about to ask you what yours was and you got mine, like spot on.

Kenta: Damn. No, it's because I actually found that I thrive that a lot of my good friends are my brother is like a I and tj and like I find that a lot of my good companions. I, I do well because like you tend to be a little bit more like organized and like you're very like 

J.R.: mm-hmm. 

Kenta: to you learn like very meticulous, you know?

Yeah. and it's cool to see that you. You have kind of continued that throughout your life, like through the choreography and the groups that you've done. Like I get to see your K-pop groups and I get to see like these little, like, funny videos that you pop out. And then I just love that like, you're just so, my impression of you even now is like someone who's like, if I set my mind to it, like I'm gonna create a schedule and I'm gonna come back to it and I'm just gonna like, [00:22:00] slowly but surely get better at it and I'm gonna be able to do like volumes of that, you know?

Mm-hmm. And my disposition is not always like that. So when I have people around me like that, it really inspires me. Like, that's how my wife is too. Like, it's like if she sets a goal to do something she'll be like, these two days are for this, and every week she'll like, basically she just won't get sick.

'cause she's just like, her body's like, I'm gonna be there to do that at this time, you know? 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Kenta: And I'm not always like that. So,

J.R.: what's your Myers Briggs? 

Kenta: Do you wanna, do you wanna take a guess? I don't know how much you know about Myers Frigg. I'm not a big Myers Frigg person, so it's not 

a, 

J.R.: yeah, no, I know about it, but I don't think I'm good at diagnosing unless I really sit down and be like, okay, what is the N and the F and the e again, but if you're complimentary to me, I'm assuming it's more of like, I, no, I'm not gonna try to take a guess.

It's gonna be messy. 

Kenta: Wanna put me? Yeah. Yeah. I'll, so actually it's funny, like I tested a ENFP [00:23:00] okay. At when I was in the us but since moving outta us I'm an INFP, like I'm integrated more. Oh, okay. 

J.R.: Okay. 

Kenta: I think it's just 'cause the US brings out more of that. Like when I talk to people it's more but yeah, I'm a feeler.

J.R.: That makes, 

Kenta: that kicks out. Yeah. So I'm, it's kind of like, I'm very much like I'm an intuitive feeler. I just kind of sense I vibe through my life, you know, like, should I do that? That feels kind like, yeah. Yeah. So 

J.R.: it's, I think when I was going down a YouTube rabbit hole, and I think two of the types of personalities that I compliment well with are NPS and ENFPs.

I think because of the same sort of reasons of we can think this, not think, but our line of reasoning is the same, but obviously we're more feeling versus thinking or judging and sensing and stuff like that. And then the I and the f it kind of, or sorry, the I and the E can be either or, but yeah, I think that checks out.

I like, that makes sense to me. Yeah. Going back, you made me think of this one thing where, so I guess I. You moving to [00:24:00] New York made a lot of sense to me. I'm like, oh yeah that, that checks out. Kenta is very like all over the place. Meaning like with your ambitions and like the Yeah, yeah. You kind of go with the flow vibe, but also you kind of just follow your heart and go for it.

But also I think going back to high school now, I feel like my conception of you is that Kenta was always a, like a niche of one. So if you can conceptualize high school and like there's these groups of people with certain, not labels, but categories or interests. It's like, okay, these are the, I don't know drama people or these are the, you know, the nerds or whatever.

And these are the athletes, right? You were always just a party of, one of you could be in all those groups, but you're, there is no one to compare you two in the, the best possible way. Meaning like, I wouldn't say, oh, Kenta is just the tennis person. I'm like, no, no. Kena is just an entity that is in all these different spaces.

And what I admired about that, I admired that about you, but also the fact of going back to superficial, I remember you training handstands and then when you got it, and then my sister was like, oh my god, Kent, get [00:25:00] any handstands? And I'm like, dang, that's so cool. One day I'm gonna beta do handstand, like kenta.

That was one of those things I was like, that's what I remember a lot about. 'cause I was like partially like proud but also envious. I'm like, shoot, I need to, I wanna do a handstand. But you know, we did, I learned flips and stuff like, and I think Bboying were there a lot of other B-boys at our school because in my brain No, you were, you were like the only one.

So that also solidified you as a single entity, like not as a part of a group. 

Kenta: Yeah. At least our years. There wasn't a lot of B-Boy. That's right. Mm-hmm. So you 

were 

J.R.: like really in my brain, a pioneer. Like you were just the one and then eventually other B-boys from other schools, so 

Kenta: Yeah.

Exactly's. Yeah. Yeah. They started coming go and like, I'm still friends with them too, you know. A good amount of them. But yeah. No, I appreciate that. I think like one of the things that, people may not know is that I felt pretty lonely in high school actually, you know? Mm-hmm. And so I think that's also why I don't know you, even though we weren't like always hanging out together and stuff like that, and I had definitely had like my groups where like I'd go and hang out with the theater kids and stuff just 'cause [00:26:00] proximity of like, we are doing, like we're spending so much time making a production together and then we hang out.

Yeah. But I don't know, man. It's kind of weird to say, and this is not to take away from any of my relationships with other people in high school, but you were kind of the real ones for me. I think you were also just like, you were just kind of there and then you just like say it like it is, but like, not in like a mean way.

I think at that time I would be annoyed or like, I might have gotten hurt, you know? But like, I feel like you've always just been very, like lovingly honest. And I think like maybe when you're, when you were younger, the nuance or like the articulation of that, like what might have not been there. But I can even tell now the fact that you go into coaching the way you talk in the podcasts that I've listened to like you have a very, like, loving honesty about you, you know?

Mm. So, yeah. 

J.R.: Oh, I see. 

Kenta: So I appreciate that. Cool. And then I think that's also why I've like, tried to kind of keep in touch with you because I was like, okay, this guy's one of the real ones for me. 

J.R.: That's, yeah. Thank you for that. I appreciate that. 

Anything else on anything that [00:27:00] stands out in high school? Whether experiences, stories, or impressions? I'm curious.

Kenta: Oh, man. I think I just, yeah I just really enjoyed like dancing and kicking it with you and your sister and yeah, just getting to be a part of those experiences and yeah, it's just cool to get to see who you are now. 'Cause like we talked about earlier, like there's a lot of things that, for both of us it sounds like, but like for me to you, like just a lot of things where I'm like, yeah. It's it's like you were always very, you and then it just kind of, yeah. It just got like sharpened the edge more 

and 

J.R.: more. 

Kenta: Yeah. I 

J.R.: see. 

Kenta: Yeah. 

J.R.: that makes sense. I think likewise as well.

I'm like, I I think I mentioned a lot of my guests who I've caught up with, you know, for, I haven't seen them in years. It's like, you know, you're the same in the best possible way, which is great to, it's very refreshing and it's nice to see that people are genuinely still the same, unlike in lieu of some sort of traumatic event and they're changed.

Right. I'm glad to see that a lot of my friends are like, very much the same as I remember them. It's [00:28:00] really cool.

Alright, so then we can move on to the first actual topic then, and we can go back and forth. I know this is usually like me asking questions, but if you have anything that comes up, feel free to ask.

But yeah, I want to humanize you a bit, get your origin story, life aspirations, career journey, et cetera. So this is a big chunky one. We'll see where it goes. But first question, like, where did you grow up? What were your biggest influences? 

Kenta: When I grew up, well, I grew up in Fremont with you. My biggest influences, I mean, I think I was always very athletic in, not in, in that I played a lot of sports growing up and so I always thought I would be like a sports player.

But this is, I thing, what I meant about the tennis thing earlier that maybe not a lot of people know is like right before high school, I think I got sick. And I got diagnosed with something called transverse myelitis. And so I actually lost my mobility. So I had to learn how to re to walk again, basically as part of my origin story that I don't, that not a lot of people know [00:29:00] about.

But it was like, yeah, it was, it is just happened during the summer. And so when I came back and there was a lot of expectations for me to play tennis because I was playing competitively before. Like I just never picked up my tennis racket the same way again, you know? And so, but it was because of that, that I got into theater and because I couldn't play and I just lost my edge, my ambition to play sports in the same way.

So I think through that then came a lot of my my ambitions for wanting to like. Tell human stories. Like I became really obsessed with ideas. I was like, my purpose in life is to help people feel human again. Right? Which is in some way, like still true to this day, just in different ways. So I don't know if I can name like specific people but I was very inspired by the story craft, like the world of story crafting and whether that's through dance or maybe becoming a filmmaker or theater or whatever that might be.

And then especially with dance, like then I think with dance, [00:30:00] then there was like people like of course like art, my mentor, like Shaun Evaristo, I mean, not, sorry, yes, Shaun Evaristo now also. ButJustin Escoto and then of course Shaun. Yeah, Shaun Evaristo. 'Cause in the Bay Area and like the company and all that.

Yeah, and I just, I think especially. Those were big influences for me especially when Sean started Movement lifestyle. And I was kinda like, oh, right, you can do this dance thing, but then you can give opportunities to other creatives. And so it was then it became more about like, how do I leverage what I can do to like, help the community at large through my skillset.

Yeah. And then later on I think a big influence of mine was in college. I watched, I got introduced to Bill t Jones, who's a a black gay choreographer from New York. And he had a piece called Still Here. And in order to create, it was about AIDS or it was about terminal illness, but he had HIV aids and his partner passed away, if I'm remembering all of it correctly.

And so he created a piece using [00:31:00] movement therapy, essentially what might be considered movement therapy these days. And that just moved me and I was just like, I wanna do that. I wanna move people to heal, like literally move people to heal. So yeah. Yeah, so your question was what are, like, what's the, the inspirations, right?

That that shaped me. So I think like I could probably name a bunch of other like creatives and different people. But, 'cause there are a lot of people I think. I think I'm very thankful and a lot of, and I have like teacher friends too you know, just Maya Stewart and Shiloh Burton and Ms.

Jackson and stuff like that. So many people in my life shaped who I am today. You know, so it really is I'm a firm believer that it takes a village. Like we are a village. Like we are an embodiment of a village, raising us, you know? So, yeah man, I'm grateful. I'm really grateful for all the different people, even if some of it hurt.

J.R.: Of course, of course. 

Kenta: Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah. I like that. Okay, so [00:32:00] growing up Bay Area, a lot of movement based things. You had your mobility taken away. You kind of were getting that back. You were inspired by all these creatives and you felt that connection of movements and humanity in life. Could you connect the dots from, okay, so now high school Kenta, who I knew a lot now going into college San Francisco State University.

If I'm not getting any of this wrong you mentioned design BS and visual communication design, if that's accurate. New media emphasis and then eventually moving to New York. Could you connect the dots for us? 

Kenta: Yeah. Sam, so connect the dots between high school to college to New York. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Kenta: Okay. Yeah. So 

J.R.: if there are any like major themes that stick out to you, you're like, okay, here's the biggest current that brought me in that direction. 

Kenta: Yeah. I think it was about how do I make the world a better place?

I mean, I, that's such a broad term, right? And it's different for everybody, but. I think especially at a young age, like without being able to like fully understand what that really even means for me, I mean even now at this age, it's like I'm [00:33:00] still kind of figuring out 'cause it changes. But I think it was like, how do I make the world a better place through the craft that I keep getting pulled towards, which is create creative crafts, creative storytelling.

So that took me to San Francisco State, which had a pretty good film department. So I went to do film. I was originally gonna major in film. Now I thought I wanted to be a director and an actor. Then because of you know, we are our children of the 2008 financial crisis. And I mean, it's like, feels like a whole repeat now again.

But you know, I think this life just felt really uncertain. Like the future felt really uncertain. I didn't really know, like I didn't have a lot of trust in our government systems and like our financial systems. And I really felt like the best thing to do was to start my own business. I thought it was gonna build me the gimme the most sovereignty over my creative aspirations and what I can do with it.

And so, yeah, I was just like, I want to just not go to college anymore and I just wanna start my own business. And then I had some really well-meaning [00:34:00] like older friends as we do when we're in the dance community because we get to dance with older folks and you know, they're like, dude, don't drop outta college.

Just finished college. So I was like, okay, how do I finish college as fast as possible? So I found design. And I graduated in three and a half years, which is like, in retrospect, like not that much faster, but like mm-hmm. The trajectory was five to six years because our program was so impacted in film.

So as like that I did that. And then during that time I like started my projects creators unlocked, which was like, basically it was a blog and a clothing brand and a community like incubator, let's say. So I would try to like, put on other creatives. Like I'd try to put like events together and then we'd sell the clothing.

And yeah, and then I think hip hop was a big part of that, like hip, like coming from the Bay Area, like I think the Bay Area is so rich with activist history and then like hip hop being like such culturally [00:35:00] intertwined with activism and community work. I felt really lucky getting to live in sf because a lot of that was yeah, like that, like they, they like really intertwined.

It really gave me a lot of information about how to use creative work as a change making pathway. And then after college. Creators unlocked shut down, as you know. 'cause I didn't really know. I was just like pursuing what? Doing whatever I can at that age, like build businesses. And then that kind of evolved into a couple other projects which was still about media, which, so it was just like the name changed.

And like, I brought on some partners, like some friends who were gonna help me. And then with those three partners, or two partners, the three of us, we were like, we went to New York to do an interview with some people that are like in the industry, in the creative industry that we respected. And then they floated the idea like, why don't you come and move to New York?

You know, I was like, this is the Mecca. And I've always wanted to move to New York. Actually. I've always wanted to move to Europe, but I was like, okay, maybe Europe could be a good post until I figure out how to move to Europe. 

J.R.: [00:36:00] Mm-hmm. 

Kenta: And then, so that summer we're just like, yo, let's do it. That's where the, that's where everything is.

We gotta be where all the creatives are. So we packed our bags and moved there and we crashed with our friend who was part of the co-founder. But he had a full-time job. So introspect, I mean, it's so crazy. We were just so resourceful and I feel a little bit bad 'cause we definitely, he took on the brunt of the housing.

'cause like he was able to get relocated through his full-time job. And we were just like couch crashing at his place. Yeah, man, we just we're just scrappy. And then we got to New York, we finally moved into our own apartment. We try to build that business up. We found that it's very, very difficult to be taken seriously at that young age.

Again, we didn't have Instagram, we just don't have the same outlets. A lot of it is show your work, prove it. Like walk around New York, talk to people, build us connections, pass your portfolio around. And I mean, I was just going into debt at that point, so I was just like, I need a full-time job.

And so I reluctantly applied for a [00:37:00] few jobs at startups and I re, I got received a position as a designer at a early stage startup. And so that kind of started to break. That was like how that second business. Kind of came to a close. And so like we, we all kind of went separate ways, the three of us.

So yeah, that's what took me to New York, man. And then from there I was just like hustling, you know, I don't really like that word. 'cause I think it kind of gets associated with like toxic, masculine bro hustle culture. But hustling as in I had to put so much effort in. When I moved to New York one of my elders, like one of the guys, older people in my life, he said he was the one who also encouraged me to move to New York.

He said to me. There's two times when you move to New York, one's when you're really young and you have a lot of energy and you have a big dream. Second time is when you have a lot of money and a lot of time. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Kenta: Everything in the middle don't do it. Just exhausting. 

J.R.: Interesting. 

Kenta: And I really, really feel that way.

So when I moved there in my early twenties, I had a lot of energy and a lot of ambition. [00:38:00] So I was just hustling, man. I was like literally like going out to every event, every meetup I can, I was just meeting people. I was just trying to make friends like I was like. Paying my rent on my credit card.

At one point I was eating rice and beans and I joined TaskRabbit and I was also a gardener, like a landscaper. So I would just wake up at 4:00 AM I would walk downstairs, take the train, get off, a white van would be waiting for me. I would hop into the back of a white van with a bunch of stacks of sand and I'd be literally like going to rich people's homes, like laying out sand on their backyard for like landscaping.

And then I'd go and clean people's bathrooms. And then I'd go home and try to get cleaned up, go to meetups. And then slowly I would get one client do a website for me for 200 bucks. I was like, yeah, fuck it. Whatever, like 200 bucks, I'll do it. You know, like it's groceries. And then yeah man. And that kind of continued until like I started to build my portfolio, build the connection.

And then it's always what I found is like it only takes one or two people who are like. Who are willing to [00:39:00] take a chance on you, who are willing to connect you with other people. And so I think that's also why I'm such a believer that like success is like, is not just you know, like I just become successful.

You gotta be lucky. Like luck is a part of it, I think. And also yes, tenacity and effort and all that of course is a part of it, right? But it's just, for me it's like you gotta stay humble because there's people who will help, like who are gonna help you get where you want to be. It's not just you.

You know what I mean? So again, I'm very grateful for the people who were like, do you wanna come take on some extra work at my studio? And I was like, hell yeah. And then at the end they were like, Hey do you want the clients? I don't want? And I'm like, scraps, I'll take it. I was just like, whatever you don't want, I'll take it.

So I was like, in the beginning I was just doing projects I like didn't really want to do either, but I was like. Let's do it. I'll just take it. And then those, 

J.R.: what kind of clients? Like what projects? 

Kenta: Work, websites, logos, branding. Okay. Like digital 

J.R.: sort of stuff. 

Kenta: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Digital and physical, like print, like packaging, like [00:40:00] anything, like I utilized my design degree to the fullest, you know.

And then it also became like content started shooting. Like I started doing media collateral obviously then social media became bigger and bigger and bigger. So brands wanted, like anybody who can like, create like media collateral and social media posts and, you know, so I just did whatever I can, man.

And then during that time, like still trying to figure out like, how do I bring my own creative work forward? You know? And it was a hard like compromise and balance of being like, I wanna start my own creative thing where I have full control over it, but I need money. And service businesses are kind of the easiest routes to go to, make money on.

Creative for me, I think. Mm-hmm. Because it's low overhead. You don't need overhead. You just need to convince someone that you can do it, and then they pay you and then you do the work. You know what I mean? So, 

J.R.: right, right. 

Kenta: Yeah, it was a very interesting time, but it was very, very stressful. 

J.R.: Could you place us in time of what years and what age you were for this when you were in New York and you were hustling and [00:41:00] doing all this stuff?

Kenta: Yeah, so it was like 2000, 2013, two, it's like 2014, I think, officially. 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. 

Kenta: Maybe, yeah. Kind of like on and off, 2013, but I think 2014 officially. So I was 20, 22, 

J.R.: 23 something. 

Kenta: Yeah. 20. Yeah, exactly. 22, 23. Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah. 

Kenta: Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And then, yeah, man, so I. I was just like doing whatever I can.

I was so stressed. I was like so much in debt. And yeah, I just, like, when I took the startup job, I was like, I was just like, whatever money I get, I'm just gonna pay off my credit card as fast as I can. Yeah. So I was like, every month I just had zero in my bank account. I was like, everything was just paying off loans and then just living as cheaply as possible.

J.R.: Yeah. So what were you doing at the startup again? Maybe I missed it. 

Kenta: No, I didn't say. The startup was such a small blip in my life. So [00:42:00] shady. Yeah. No. No. But I was doing design, like I got hired as like a UX product, like what would be considered today as like a product designer. But I was doing like ux, ui I was helping build the like the initial launch product for a arts investment startup.

So I was like helping build a platform and then coding front end. 

J.R.: Mm. Okay. And so from all the hustling and the different sort of odd jobs and then the startup at what age or stage or year was that? And then what was the next step after that? 

Kenta: Yeah. So that was like, what, 22, 23?

Right. And I think the startup was like early on in that process. Okay. And then after that I was just like, fuck this. I don't wanna work for anybody. I just, again, that, that stubborn part of me was like, I was like, do you believe in yourself? I was like, yeah. I was like, okay, well if you believe in yourself, then why don't you just go like a hundred percent?

Like you can fucking do this. So there were many nights where I was like, literally so I felt so depressed 'cause I felt so overwhelmed and like [00:43:00] constantly had to tell myself like, okay, I can do this, I can do this, I can do this. Right. And like eating like spaghetti, out of a can basically.

It was like not a healthy time for my life, but you can do that when you're 22, 23, right. And like breaking on the side.

J.R.: Yeah. 

Kenta: And so, yeah, so then that was like what, 23? And then from there I started like 23, 24. I started to get a few projects started to build a little bit more of a network who of people who like pass me along.

And it just took a few people who like ran their own studios who like were also freelancing, who are willing to pass like projects onto you that they didn't want to take or could not take because they were had too much work. And then from there I got passed on into like agency rounds. So then there was just a few like people who like worked in agencies who would then just bring me in on freelancers.

So then you just you just kind of like need to know a few people who like know how to get you in the door and get you considered for work. And then [00:44:00] that just and then the more you do it, the more people you meet and obviously the more trust you build. And then people like, even when like certain, like project managers will move to another startup or another agency, like if they liked working with you, like you'll get that email, you'll be like, Hey, now I'm at so and so and so, could you quote us for a project?

'cause I would like to work with you again. You know? And so that was like, then, I mean, I don't know exactly, but I guess that was like 20. Three. What, like 24, 25? Yeah, 26. And then in that process I met up with a friend of mine who we were like, we always wanted another B-Boy. And we were like, yo, let's like start something together, you know, like we should do a business together.

And before that I had started another small media company by myself. You know, I call it media company, it's like a blog, right? Sure. But like a media company. And I ran like a pop-up shop. I rented a space in in Williamsburg, and then I like, basically did a two or three, a two weekend pop-up shop.

And I was like, man, I love this. I think I could really dig, like running my own store and like [00:45:00] creating my own brands and working with people like this. And so I like, again, I was like, I mean, this is all in retrospect, so if you ask me, I might tell a different story at a different time, but I'm just trying to recall how things went, but essentially, I was like, okay, I wanna do my own thing. So I met up with my friend. We were gonna launch like a product we wanted to build like something that was ours, not where we're doing a service for somebody. And then we were like, okay, well we don't have any capital. And then it was like, do you wanna raise or do you want to, you know, self-fund?

It was like, oh, well I don't wanna, I don't wanna borrow money. So it was like, we got it in self-fund. And so we started an agency together. and that one did really well, but we were like, it went like zero to a hundred real quick. Like within eight months we were doing like close to six figures.

So like we were really growing that. And then at like month eight toward eight, from eight to the end of the year, we were like looking at each other and we felt so burn out. We're like, dude, is this what we wanna really be doing? We kind of started this to fund our own business, but now we're like locked into doing service work and if we keep doing this, it'll go well.[00:46:00] 

But it's like impacting our friendship. And number one thing we valued was like our friendship. and during that time there were opportunities to like, help run our own product brands. So we hopped onto that and then we split our ways. And actually my friend is still running his product brand, so I'm like, damn, okay, cool.

Like you actually ran with it and built a product brand like the way you wanted to, and I still help him with that brand to this day. But yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was like 20, that was like towards the end of my New York stint. So then that was like, what, 26, 27. I was so burnt out. And then we were, my wife and I were like, well, now wife.

We were like, let's, we were kind of getting ready to move out of New York. 'cause I always, my plan was always to leave and her plan was, well she had to move back at some point. So we were kind of like the star started to align in 2018 and, and I was like, okay, I got, so I was still, after that agency closed down, I went back to freelancing and just [00:47:00] running my own person, one person studio.

And that was like really good actually. Like I was hiring people, like working with my friend taught me more about like how to hire help and you know, so like I was the person who can now like pass projects onto people because like I got to that place where now I had too much work and I had to turn people down and I could recommend people.

Yeah, sorry this is getting long-winded, but

J.R.: no worries. 

Kenta: and then at the end I was like, yo, I like, what is it that you really want to do? And I was like, dude, I want to, I wanna run my own product. And I was like, well, what's the thing that you wanna do? It was like, well, I love movement, I love design and I love research.

So very so, and I, it is kind of funny that combine those words, I literally just combined, I was like movement design, research. So I started like a design studio called Movement Design Research, where I like. Did a Kickstarter, which was like, so stressful, but we were able to raise enough money to like ran space down downtown.

And I invited a bunch of different artist friends of mine to interpret what movement means to them and build based on their craft. Like things like [00:48:00] photography or like v like VR things and projection mapping projects and stuff. And I built a like mini park war gym inside with my brother, where when there it, it's like light and sound sensitive.

That was like the goal, at least. It was hard to execute it at the end, but like we built this like infrastructure and then when I moved out of New York, I was like, okay, I want to do this. So it's been many, many years of trying to really spend time building that and kind of fighting myself on whether that should be like a clothing brand.

'cause like I've done clothing so many times and it's it's a hard business for me. But yeah. Anyways, like I can keep going on and on and off, but that's what I'm working on today is like building that up as a soft goods brand. And then later on if I want to I'll build it into other products, but I've just accepted, I'm just gonna make clothing again for a little while.

Yeah. 

J.R.: Okay. Interesting. Alright, thank you. Thank you for taking us through that. I had a couple of follow ups. So when you said agency, [00:49:00] is that, what do you mean by you had an agency? Is it that, is it helping businesses like develop, like marketing or business development or, 

Kenta: yeah, correct. Yeah, like we had like a, like a creative agency where we did ads, we basically just like bottom up, so anything visual identity, branding, website, social media content.

Okay. Digital communication strategy ad spend. Right. Yeah. 

J.R.: Okay. So lucrative but not, but burnt you out. And then so you moved, you kind of pivoted back to freelance work, I assume in like digital or sort of the similar things? Exact same thing, but just not agency exact 

Kenta: thing, minus the ad spend. 'cause that was my friend's thing.

Yeah. 

J.R.: I see, I see. Okay. Yeah. And then now what you've been currently doing for the last several years, what is the, I get the general idea, but what is like the business model? My, my nuts and bolts brain is trying to figure this out. 

Kenta: Yeah, it's the IN fp not yeah, ET Yeah, of course. Is the IN tt, IN TJ O?

No. Yeah. What am I doing now? Okay, so it's basically the same thing, it's just service [00:50:00] work. So since 2009, so 2019, I kind of got, I, I hired a coach when I left New York and I moved to Germany 'cause I was burnt out. And I try need to figure out what I wanted to do and then I was like, I would like to still work with people but in a different capacity.

I'll cut it short there just so I don't go into a full story. But 2020 I started business coaching. So the business model is that I work with people who wanna build businesses, whether they are full-time and they would like to go freelancing or they would like to start their own business. Or they're already, you know, unemployed.

I don't unemployed, but like they're now like full-time their idea. Or maybe they're already in the business and they're doing well but they are having a hard time going to the next level, so to speak. Right. And. Yeah. So I mean, the business model is service oriented, so I don't know, it's that's like the shortest way, like they pay me for a package.

So a certain set of time, either three months, [00:51:00] six months. Mm-hmm. Often people will be new or there'll be like a one time one off like strategy session or whatever I'm offering at that time. 'cause it has changed over the years. Yeah. And then we'll sit together for whatever the time is allotted.

Often my packages will also offer like asynchronous support where they'll like, they can voicemail me or email me or I'll help them literally like, like I'll make comments on their pitch decks or whatever that is. So like the idea was originally it was like a Renta kenta. It was like, I will be your business partner.

Okay. And like end coach. Yeah. And then I also do, I still do design work from here like little on the side still. Like I've still continued to. Freelance as a designer and like creative service work. But my main job is business coaching. 

J.R.: Okay. That makes a lot of sense to me. And I also like the branding of rent account.

I think that's fantastic. Oh, so how does that, so you mentioned like [00:52:00] creative movement design, how does that fit in? And then also if you wanna throw in studio Rana, if I'm getting that right. How does that connect? 

Kenta: Yeah, so I think the best way to explain it is like, there's the service side of my business, which is where I help other people with their visions.

And I think for me, the hard part has always been to jump the bridge or to kind of build a steady bridge over to my own visions where like I'm in full control over my, my distribution and execution of ideas. Right. So I'm like a I'm, there's a part of me that really believes like, I need to like, practice what I preach.

So if I'm a business coach, if I am talking about these things, I wanna make sure that I'm still doing business outside of I'm selling you business coaching, you know? Mm-hmm. And design services. So, yeah. I mean, for me, like I said, like you've heard I don't know if you like caught on, but there's like a theme of like me [00:53:00] struggling to do my own creative, like product based thing.

So movement design research is that. It's just taken like a long time to like really put all the pieces in place also like emotionally and spiritually to be able to be like, okay, now I'm gonna during the pandemic I learned how to sew because one of the hangups for me was I didn't wanna go into mass manufacturing 'cause it's not sustainable.

So I didn't want to go hit up a friend who like has ties to China or like India or Vietnam and get something made because one, it's overhead intensive and two, I just don't think it's sustainable. So like I learned, it took me, I took years to learn how to sew. So like I can produce my own samples and then now as I produce those, I'm gonna slowly in the next year or two start to be like, okay, can I really, if I have to make more than five products a month, then I'll start to go and I've already found a few manufacturers in Portugal and then I'll be like, okay, I'll do small scale manufacturing locally 'cause it's a bit more sustainable, you know?

So, that's how MDR or [00:54:00] movement design research connects. It's like my. My passion product project. I see. And then Studio Rana is just it's just like a catchall for what my, like how my wife, like my wife teaches yoga and she's a physiotherapy student now. And so we've both like really connected on like mental health, health spirituality.

Like really how do we take care of ourselves and take care of our communities. And like movement is like such a centerpiece of that for us. And so we were always like dreaming of opening up our own like physical space, which hasn't happened yet. So like we're, it's like digital and we like rent space still.

Mm-hmm. But it's Studio Rana. This is our logo and, and yeah. So right now I was just like, my philosophy is like, if I can't, I gotta work with what I have. I, we don't have the overhead or the capacity to really open our own space yet, but we can do it online and we can rent space and we can already start teaching people.

So I have a weekly class. she's been teaching longer than I [00:55:00] have consistently. So she's been having weekly classes and she just did her first certification program teaching a certification. Yeah. And then one day the goal is to have a space where we sell like healthy foods where it's a cafe and people can come, eat healthy and like connect with community.

They can come train and move and play. Yeah. And, and then also have like my clothing there, like while, so there'll be like a small boutique element. So it's like a little bit of a physical catchall. Right now I'm just doing it digitally. 'cause we haven't quite had the time and energy to invest in opening a space yet.

Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah. That's cool. I like that. I see the vision and I can see how it's connecting all those dots.

One thing I wanna now take it back to, since you've already taken us through your overall journey, is I mean, I think biggest challenges we've kind of checked that box a little bit unless you wanna go deeper, but I wanna ask greatest lessons learned as you reflect on this whole, you know, winding kenta journey.

Kenta: Hmm. That's a hard one. I feel like there's so many lessons.

I think [00:56:00] don't be so attached. I think I'm really in a phase of life where I study a lot. I try to be in, involved in studying a lot of Dharmic traditions, so dharmic as in, you know, Buddhist yogic. And then also just looking back at what are our ancestors saying? I think that's also where like martial arts is interesting 'cause martial arts is a preservation of ancestral wisdom through like literally a, like a combative art form, you know?

There's a reason for why certain movements are included. And so, but anyways, through all of that, like one of the biggest things is like, how do we practice like non-attachment, non as like apathy or oh, I don't care, whatever. But non-attachment is seeing things as best as ones possibly can for what they are and to not be attached to all the the noise around.

So that's you know, like our expectations of how things are supposed to be. Judgment that we feel others have on us, whether they, whether it's true or not, you know, how we perceive it. Try not to be attached to those things. So I think that [00:57:00] non-attachment piece, like really like parlays into like lessons of patience, lessons of perseverance and endurance and, you know, but yeah, but also just like lessons and allowing yourself to move as smoothly as possible, forward in the way that it needs to, without needing to try and control everything 'cause that's actually an illusion.

J.R.: One thing that you brought up is attachments and I was having this reflection in the last couple of years and it's from this book Awareness by Anthony Dello.

 One of the biggest takeaways I got from that book was most, if not all of our pain or suffering is an attachment to something. Whether it's a person, an idea, an identity, et cetera. And if we can learn how to strengthen the muscle of detachments in the spirit of what you're saying, it will reduce that sort of suffering or resistance to pain that we keep experiencing.

And that's one of those lessons I've been trying to learn or internalize more is I know when I am upset or any in these low points, it's because I'm attached to something that I don't necessarily need to be attached to in a [00:58:00] healthy way. Obviously we wanna be attached to our family, our friends and good things like that.

But if it's an expectation that I'm attached to or an outcome that I'm attached to, I find it. That's the reason why I've been so upset over something and I don't need to be. And so that's one of it reminded me of what you're saying.

I wanna ask you if you had any thoughts on that, but I also wanted to ask you as a movement expert, what is something that you could pass on to us about reconnecting with ourselves?

Because you mentioned, you keep talking about movement, and I think you mentioned something about connecting with our body and ancestors and culture like you just said. Anything that you want to share off of that? 

Kenta: Ooh, yeah. Man, podcasts are hard 'cause I also have so many. I would love to hear about your experience with the non-attachment and things like that and what experiences have come around that.

But I'll just answer the mo the movement thing. Well, first of all, I wouldn't consider myself a movement expert, but I would say. You said lessons around movement? 

J.R.: Yeah. Lessons, [00:59:00] takeaways or things that people don't consider as someone who is more immersed in movements and physical movements and whatnot.

Kenta: Yeah. I think like the thing is like there's so much research about the importance of moving our bodies for our mind and just our general health. Especially like my wife studying physiotherapy and having friends who are like, you know, personal trainers or physical therapists or like body workers.

I'm just also around like getting to see the, the inabilities that come with age and ailment and just how, like, how like important health is more, more, you know, more than anything. And I think we live in a culture where like people say stuff like, well, you know, I'll sleep when I die. Or you know, I'll, let's, like they, people will tend to put their health second to whatever else else.

Mm-hmm. And listen if that's the priority, that's fine. But I just really find also as someone who's been sick in the way that I, I talked about earlier in this podcast where I lost my mobility. I had to bring it back. Like it's really no joke. To not have your health. [01:00:00] And I just think it's just so important to find a way to move in whatever capacity.

And for me, my advice would just be find something that is fun, like move, move in a joyful way. Because when we find ways to move in joyful way, and I think this is why dance is so powerful, is like we do multiple things. Like one we connect very like somatically or like very much with our bodies to like a sensorial experience that's like on a harmonic or chemical level, right?

I'm not a neuroscientist, but I'm sure there's papers out there about. The dopamines and the serotonins. I mean, we know through research that when people exercise, even these chemicals come up and we get this happy, right? The runner's high and all that and stuff like that. So, don't, don't, no.

None of you medical people quote me on this. Obviously don't come for me, but I just think it's so important, like when we find a way to move through joy, I think it covers a lot of the necessities. Like we move our bodies, you know, and we move our bodies in a way that feels connected to an emotional [01:01:00] experience.

So it's like, there's so many things one can say about movement, but I just think just find a way to move. And I think the best way to move is to move in a way that feels fun and playful. And so, because I think a lot of people think of movement as a chore. Like you sit all day, you drive all day, especially in the us to, to and fro, to go then do a task like workout.

And not everybody loves working out. If you love working out, that's great, but some people was like, that's a chore. I have to go work out. You know? It's like, no, go take a dance class. Go swim, go. If you wanna twirl around 20 times in the middle of your room, go do that. You know what I mean?

Find a way just to, for fun. 

J.R.: Like a lot. Okay, so another book reference Built to Move Yeah. Is a core philosophy of the health that I've been trying to implement. And it is the same thing you're saying is the cornerstone of health is movements. And if you look at the people who have a lot of longevity, obviously there's a lot of factors in that, but it's the, you know, the older senior people who are constantly moving, whether they now garden daily or they're just [01:02:00] constantly moving around during their day.

They're not stagnant and just sitting in one spot. And I think that from what the book was saying, it contributes to their longevity and their health. And so I try to. Internalize that as well. For me, it's still mostly like a chore. I feel like, like I do my workouts every, like four times a week I go to the gym and then I get my 10,000 steps per day as like, okay, I gotta do this.

I'm not joyfully walking. I'll honestly admit that. I do dance here and there, but not as joyfully. So I'm like, okay that's good food for thought. I appreciate your insight on that.

Kenta: Yeah, and just also like, I mean, it's not as you have to have a, you know, orgasmic high every time you do something, right?

Mm-hmm. But I think it's an interesting point, like also as dancers, like sometimes I find that older dancers, they dance out of habit, and I'm like, why'd you start dancing? You know what I mean? It's is there something about dance that still brings you joy? And if it doesn't, you know, maybe you need to try another style.

Maybe you need to change the expectations of the dance, you know, you know, walking maybe it's just, maybe it's not walking, but maybe it's like you like to. Spend time in a specific [01:03:00] park. You know, it's very, again, very Buddhist, right? It's it's also about presence. It's like just like being present in the moment and finding something to be grateful for or joyful for, you know?

And I don't know, I think it's just something that I often think about is yeah, like it just brings me back into my body, into my present moment, you know? Yeah. 

J.R.: I like that. Here's, oh, one thing I'll share in my own dance journey is, 

Kenta: yeah. 

J.R.: On your topic of joyfully moving. That's why I've been trying to phase out of my whole k-pop dance era because I don't have any joy When I do K-pop dance.

It was started as a fun thing, but now it's, so, I'm like, I'm a director of my K-pop team, and it's so like, I'm. My values are so misaligned with everyone else in the K-pop scene because in my generalization, it's very aesthetic based sort of dance community where it's all about coplay as famous Korean idols, which is fine if that's your thing, it makes you happy.

But for me, I know it doesn't, like I could care less about these idols. I could care less about [01:04:00] celebrity, I could care less about meeting these people in person. And so I very feel very disconnected from the dancers in that community. And so what I've been trying to do in the last year is to reconnect with my freestyle dance roots, because I know I'm happier when I dance the way I want to dance, not how someone else is dancing and I'm covering them.

And so I, I'm, yeah. I'm trying to intentionally go back to my freestyle roots, which is popping and house dance. I wanna start learning to, and you know, like whatever groove styles. And what I've been gravitating towards more is like, I would tell my girlfriend can we go clubbing or something? Because I love going to a club.

And just like, that's that vibe, that scene for me is where I really find my jam. Like my joy for dancing. It's not, it's the, maybe you can relate, but it's the space of being in a space where people are there to enjoy the music. I'm obviously a dancer in the minority who actually wants to dance, not necessarily.

Be there for the social aspect. And so I'll be in the corner dancing to this like music and just vibing out. And then two hours later, 8,000 steps later, I'm like, that was fun. And I just go home. Right? And so I've been trying [01:05:00] to force myself to go to these clubbing events for very different reasons than my friends would.

And I'm like, man, I need to find a group of people who just wanna go to the club just to dance. And I know there are like freestyle sessions that I'm like hit or miss on for various reasons, but I'm like, okay, wedding receptions are my jam and clubbing events where I'm like, only with either myself or some close friends where I'm moving, the way I wanna move to the music is like my jam.

So in the spirit of what you're saying, like I think I need to lean more into movements that makes me happy. And I think those things are like what I'm trying to inch towards, if that makes sense. 

Kenta: Oh, I love that. And you know, like you're such a dope dancer man. And 

J.R.: thank you. 

Kenta: I just remember so fondly, like some of my most fun dancing experiences in high school was like with you and your sister when she was like still there.

In the corner and us like actually dancing, you know, like actually, like 

J.R.: likewise. Exactly. 

Kenta: You know? Mm-hmm. And when I first moved from New York, 

J.R.: like the only people at our high school dances that were like dancing, like outside of the whole like Yeah. Mosh pit of people like just grinding.

And we're like in the back, [01:06:00] just actually like hip, hip hop dancing, actually. Trying to dance, dance. 

Kenta: Yeah. 

J.R.: Exactly. that's the same energy I bring to clubs just 20 years later. Yeah, 

Kenta: exactly. And I think that's the way it should be. I think for me, when I moved to New York and I got introduced to like house clubbing culture, I was like, ah, that's what it is.

It's the place where the community goes. You know, especially like the black community, the queer communities to go and release and be in community and be with each other and it's like a, it's like a safer space, you know? And I, dude I'm all about that. I I love that journey for you, like reconnecting with your dance 'cause Yeah.

You're, you're a sick dancer and thank you. Yeah. And I think that's. Yeah. Anyways, it'sI'm really happy to hear that. Yeah. 

J.R.: Yeah. Thank you. It's, it's a work in progress, but I hope to get there because it kind of as a someone who's identified as a dancer, basically my entire life, it's that identity crisis of like, why do I not enjoy dancing?

And I know it's because I'm not in this space where I need to be with dance. It was fun for the time in that chapter, but now I'm like, okay, [01:07:00] if I don't want to suck the joy out of this, let me go back to what I enjoy doing and being intentional with that. 

Kenta: Yeah. 

J.R.: Cool. So, alright, so sorry. Did you have anything else on I know we, yeah, 

Kenta: I was 

J.R.: jumble with different ideas.

Kenta: No, no. I mean, it's not, I'm also trying to be mindful of the time and your podcasts. But I mean, I would also love to hear like, how. Well, I mean, I'm generally curious like how it's been going for you. Like what, what, 

J.R.: sure. 

Kenta: But I'm a little bit like, can we, should we talk about that in the podcast or should that be another time?

But I'm kind of curious like what you've been up to since high school and now I did get, I did like kind of read your blogs. I kind of have like an idea of a little bit. That's that's for what you're up to. 

J.R.: Yeah, 

Kenta: yeah, yeah. But I'm kind of curious, like for you, and then also maybe mix in a little bit of this, like these things that you've been thinking about, like especially like the unattachment and like how those things have benefited you or were there specific instances in your life where those things felt kind of came up enough where you're like, Hey, I need to [01:08:00] examine how I'm.

My, relationship to these moments are like, my relationship to attachments are, you know? Mm-hmm. So it's like kind of like a three part question, or kind of, it's like a general but starting point. Yeah. But I'm, I'm just curious like how you've been also 

J.R.: Sure. Yeah. No, I can give it to you. I do too much reflection so I can give you a good t ldr r of my journey since, since college.

Yeah. I think career-wise, I didn't know what I wanted to do. Majored in Poli Sci UCI graduated 2013, worked at a law firm, moved into accounting, moved into project management, and now that's what I do professionally is project management in the tech space, like with software developers. And I think the recurring theme as I try to figure out what my purpose is, what I do for a career, what I do for fun, I've eventually found out through pursuing these doors and trying to do my best, is obviously I'm an INTJ, I'm an optimizer strategist, but what I really enjoy is helping people to like coaching, getting people to where they wanna be.

But in my professional space, I help software teams to do [01:09:00] that, where to create a good performing team and. And make them a higher performing team through metrics, through strategy, through coaching, through relational processes, but also structured processes like Agile and software. And so I've done that for fun in my dance team.

I'm like, Hey I'm applying for leadership. And I'm like, you know what? You guys are missing, you're missing an internal relations sort of thing where we can focus on team health and culture. Having been in the dance space all of college for like last 10 years, I know how to make this a safe, conducive space for us to learn and grow and have more feedback based improvements, and this is what you need.

and so I created the job That I got hired for on my dance team. Been doing that for the last three, four years and we completely, 180 of the culture. So now it's like a safer space for them to do what they enjoy, which is K-pop dance. And now I'm getting into coaching. I'm pursuing my curiosity with this podcast of I just wanna connect with people, share stories, learn for myself, and then share those learnings with other people.

And so as I weave together all these curiosities that I've had, oh, and standup comedy as an aside I love doing standup comedy. I love it. Like [01:10:00] I learned. Yeah. Yeah. 1 0 1, like 1 0 1, 2, 1, like I learned how to do punchline set up and I do it with a friend. We'd been on and off on it. But I love that.

And that's a piece I'll get back to. But essentially it all lines up to this theme of me wanting, I think my purpose or my theme or my label is being a teacher, but the other, sorry, a learner. But the other side of learning is teaching and. I only like to, I only teach or coach or give advice on things that I've done myself.

And so as I'm doing my self experimentation for the last 15 years, it's okay, well I've gotten to a level of fitness or productivity or personal finance and I can help my friends do the same thing. And now I'm pursuing making that like an actual official business. And this platform is too, also enhance the other side of that is connect with people. Expand my networks and learn from them, and share with that in the pursuit of my own knowledge.

And so, yeah, as I connect the dots, that's what my theme has been is like, okay, so I am like an optimizer learner strategy, reverse engineering success or achievement, but also not avoiding the happiness part of that. 'Cause achievement and happiness or fulfillment are different things. Mm-hmm. And [01:11:00] it's always keeping that in the forefront.

And then if we go back to attachment, as I've been in this mode of achievement and reverse engineering the science of achievement and wondering why a lot of us, myself included, aren't fulfilled or happy.

It's because we're missing that sort of part of fulfillment, part of it is connection. But also what makes us unhappy is like what we're talking about, detach or attachment and detachment. And I think it's more just the expectation of other people and how they show up and giving them grace.

For me and my, like my red flags, and I talk about this a lot on the show, is that I have a high standard for myself and unfairly I will subconsciously put that on my partner. And that's something I've been trying to actively kind of revert from because a good partner should always love and accept you as you are and support who you want to be.

And so I, I realized that, but also with friends as well, I kind of have this standard of if you don't meet my expectations, it makes me suffer because I'm now unhappy because you're not showing up with the way that I expect you to. Obviously that's not what you should do.

And I think maybe a general, that's my [01:12:00] general like adventure or like in general push and pull with attachment is because I've been so focused on this sort of achievement and getting from A to BI also need to realize the humanity of giving other people grace detaching from expectations on their end. But now I'm in this space of vulnerably, I'm also now feeling very lonely.

'cause I look around and I'm like, why is there no one else doing what I'm doing? Or as ambitious or as as achievement oriented?

And not to say people don't do that, but as my pursuit of bringing people I respect and admire on this podcast and seeing what they're doing and seeing my high volume friends of they're achieving whatever level is happy for them or good for them. And that's fantastic.

But for me being like, how come I feel like I, I need and I want, and I'm craving other high achievers to be with, but I also know that if I bring it back, that's just my own expectation and I'm unhappy because I'm making myself unhappy. 

Kenta: Hmm. 

J.R.: Yeah. Does that make sense A little bit?

Word vomit? 

Kenta: Yeah. No, I love that. and it's so interesting 'cause even though. You know, I kind of started off with kind of being like, oh yeah you know, [01:13:00] I have for me, like I have a little chip on my shoulder about, you know, being told that I'm too much and I'm doing a lot of things. But again, it's so cool, 'cause you're also doing a lot of things right and kind of pursuing it in a little bit of a different way. And I feel very similarly about kind of the teacher learner role. I think that's, you know, that's ultimately, I kind of a joke that if I still lived in the us I mean, again, very weird place to live these days I assume.

But and want to be this, I was gonna say, is I think I would pursue teaching. I think I, I would love to be a teacher if I was still in the States. 'Cause I love to learn and love to teach. But I think I get to do that in a coaching capacity as well. Yeah, and just kind of the playoff of, I think that you're kind of meticulous.

You keep talking about like reverse engineering and it's so interesting you use that language and I often use very like poetic kind of force nymph language. And one of the ways that I've described myself is I'd call my work like possibilities weaving, you know? And so it's very interesting. it's very similar but also in, in a little bit of a different [01:14:00] way.

And I think that's the beauty of it, is like there's gonna be people in the world who really need the way that you process and articulate information back to them. And there's gonna be people who need it a little bit more in a. And the way that I, I do it.

J.R.: Kenta way. 

Kenta: Yeah. And vice versa. And it's surprising what types of people, right?

Like some it'd probably be like someone like me might need you the most because it's I'm like, I can vibe code in my head, but I what I really need, I need someone like you to be like, what the heck is I actually saying? You know? No but I really love that. And then there was a piece about the non-attachment that I think is really beautiful.

I was talking about it with my wife today about, I think the way that we and, and I'm very careful, not like when I make statements, it's not, it is a generalization, but it's not the absolute truth. Right. But

J.R.: Of course, 

Kenta: like I often find, let me start it that way, that the way we treat others is very similar to the way we treat ourselves and vice versa. And so when we [01:15:00] give others grace, I find that we also have the capacity to give ourselves a little bit more grace.

When I can allow others to be themselves, I can allow myself to be more me. If I could just let other people be who they are, I can also let myself be who I am.

And it's like, wouldn't that be a wonderful world to be able to live in a world where it's like, I might not like it. But I give you the sovereignty to experience whatever journey you're going through right now. And I will do the same for myself.

And I can expect, you know, and know we were kind of talking about expectations, attachment, but I can't, and for myself expect that others will or accept, let's say, that others will do the same for me. That they will give me the sovereignty and grace to go through my life in the way that I need to right now. Based on my experiences and my understanding of the world.

So yeah, I really like that. Yeah. But I do really understand [01:16:00] also about feeling lonely when, you know, of course it's like when we are moving towards certain visions, it is helpful to have others who are in a similar place. 'cause it's, it feels good to, to feel connected with others energetically. Right. When they're like, no, I get that. I'm also doing that. You know, or oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. I'm also doing 50 bazillion things, you know? Mm-hmm. 

J.R.: Course. 

Kenta: And you're like, cool. Yeah, let's do that.

Okay. Yeah, I think that's, I don't know, do you have any other questions?

J.R.: The only thing left on my end is the rapid fire questions, which might tie in some of these things, but Sure. Any other things you wanna talk about? Because we can always just move past that. 

Kenta: No, I just wanna reflect back that I, I, I really re I think one of the things that I've really realized in my life is that you can find ways of integrating, like your, your, I I put air quotes on this, but like your passion or like your curiosity and you can like, you know, I think it's very easy for me in my journey at one [01:17:00] point to believe that everything has to be one. You know, like you have to do the work that allows you to do, like, everything has to be like the thing.

And I think that's also why I shied away from some nine to fives. 'cause it was like, oh, it's not exactly what I want. And I'm not really getting, but I think I also, as I get older, I really have a lot of respect for people who are able to see how like you who are just been able to kind of like, be like, yeah, like with my project management, I get to actually utilize a lot of the skill sets that I really enjoy utilizing, like about self-development and team building and helping people.

And I really love that. 'cause it took me a while to understand that for myself to be like, oh, like I don't always have to be a coach in this way. I can be a, I can use my coaching skills. If I hire people, I obviously should use my coaching skills to help the people I hire to do a good job for themselves.

You know? Yeah. And so, yeah, I just wanna say I also really like, I kind of like the way you've structured your life. It's like you have the nine to [01:18:00] five again, kind of going off of 'cause of the, I read your end of the year recap, but I like that you have the job and then you have these like other places where you get to try on different skill sets in different ways in your life.

So it's cool man. I just want to say that. 

J.R.: Thank you. 

Kenta: I appreciate 

J.R.: that. Yeah, I appreciate that.

Yeah. I wanted to ask like what your, I think you have an idea of the vision for the future. Maybe I'm just too future focused, but like what is the five, 10 year vision for the future for Kenta?

Maybe it's not as clear, but if maybe it might just be more of an idea of a feeling, but what is in the future for you? What's in store?

Kenta: I think there's a few like practical life things that I would like. To happen, like just in terms of integrating to another country, it just takes time. Learning the language, getting settled into your own home. Like we would like to buy our own apartment, things like that. And move in to kind of somewhere where we're like, we know we can be here for a while and start a family.

[01:19:00] But I think in terms of like projects and stuff, I would like to be at a place where a lot of the things I've been setting up for myself very, very patiently and sometimes to my own judgment of how long it's taken that these things come to fruition. So like getting to have a physical space studio Rana with the different elements that I talked about earlier, getting to see movement design, research be like a thriving, integrated part of my like creative business ecosystem.

And maybe even take over as like my main income and my coaching, getting to be more of an ex like exclusive thing, as in I just won't have as much time and capacity to work with people. Yeah, and I mean, I still wanna keep moving just like healthy. I just wanna be in good community.

I really want my work to continue to develop spiritually and cally like always like tying back my work into how I can give back to my community. Whether through my presence or like financially, like funding [01:20:00] different organizations or initiatives or honestly, I'd love to get to a place where like my businesses could create like little funds where artists can apply for money and be like, yo, go create that.

You know, because we really undervalue artists and creatives in, in, in our current culture. Yeah, and just kind of getting to continue to integrate a lot of my my ethical concepts around like money and you know, yeah, like an anti-capitalist, like decolonial framework, you know, yeah, like it took me a long time to understand you know, cap like anti.

Like capitalism does not equal money or marketplace. Like we can have a marketplace that does not like hoard money, centralized money and value like capital as like the almighty God. You know? I would love to get to a place where of course as a society where we can like use money or exchange for formats to like care for each other, you know, care for earth.

This is kind of like what I had written a little bit about. So, I mean, I'm just a little tiny node, like a speck in the [01:21:00] dust of that, but yeah, five, 10 years. I'd love to get to a place where a lot more of my work is integrated into that and and that where I can like, have material resources to distribute back to my community in a capacity that I just don't have right now as much, you know? Yeah.

J.R.: I love that. Yeah. Cool. 

Kenta: What about you? 

J.R.: Oh yeah, I think it's the same things that I've been doing is, yeah. Kind of like you planting, I've been planting these seeds and then just gonna be watering it for the next 3, 4, 5 years. And just to be patient, I know I'm like on the right track.

I'm, as you know, I'm more of a slow risk averse, meticulous, long-term person. And so I know that some of these things will come to fruition in five years, but I know I can do it.

And I know, like historically looking back, like almost everything that I've put my mind to I've manifested or achieved, which is, you know, great and I'm celebrating that, but now it's just being patient and not being so attached to an outcome faster than I think I sh faster than it will happen, right?

Yeah. And so just moving through [01:22:00] life like that. So I think it's, I think it's everything that I'm, man, that I'm doing right now, just. Five, 10 years.

Kenta: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Mm-hmm. exactly. That's what, that's how I feel. And I mean that's, you know, in a lot of ways I feel very happy with where I am.

It's just gotta just keep, you know, getting outta my own way and taking those steps to like continue to develop it and get deeper and deeper into that.

J.R.: Okay. I would like to move to rapid fire questions. Oh, sure. Yeah. Feel free to pass any of these. And then if you have any other lingering questions, we can also get to that as well.

But I might jump around a bit.

First question, billboard question. If you could put up a sign for millions of people to see, what would it say? Metaphorical non-commercial, 

Kenta: metaphorical, non-commercial. Fart out loud more. 

J.R.: Okay. What does that mean? To you? 

Kenta: I think people hold in their farts too much.

And like physically or spiritually? Yeah. Oh, both man. Yeah. I think it's it's both man. Like, I think we care too much about what other people think, so we try to hold our farts in. I see. [01:23:00] And like, I think we should stop repressing ourselves and just let one rip more often. You know, if you're eating good, healthy gut foods, like high fiber, your fart shouldn't smell that bad anyways.

Just like, let it rip, you know, it's family. Come on. 

J.R.: Very insightful. Very unique answer. I've never gotten that before. Very Ken. Very kenta.

Okay, next one. Self-inflicted wound. Do you have a story about something that's gone wrong and you can't blame anyone else? 'cause you did it to yourself? 

Kenta: I mean, I think like a lot of the reasons why some of like my projects I've taken so long, especially like my product based, like movement design research I think a lot of it is just.

Me getting in my own way and overthinking, you know? And yeah, I think it's like a, I don't know, like self-inflicted in that. Like I'm continuing to perpetuate the narratives that have hurt me in the past, and I continue to live through it. And it's a, it's, it takes time to heal through that, you know?

But at the same time, the only person that is responsible for whether or not I take action towards what I wanna do is me. You [01:24:00] know? Yeah. Because I have the privilege, obviously. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. To say that, but yeah.

J.R.: If you could redo one thing, what would you do differently? Not in the sense of I regret anything, but more just like as a thought experiment.

Kenta: There's been times in the last couple years where I've had conversations with people who kind of like made me really doubt, my own philosophy and approach to how I want to be part of the world and especially like in an impact level, like how I wanna make a difference in the world. And I think because of my people pleasing tendencies that I'm still working through, like I have really given into that.

And it took me really out of my like my rhythm and my pace of life. And on one end it's it was great 'cause it gave me a lot of time to reflect and try to understand their perspective. But I understand now, like I could have done that while also like continuing to like still choose to stay on my own path as well, you know?

Mm-hmm. Like that, not, like not every [01:25:00] reflection has to like, take you completely off the track. Like sometimes you can like just slow down and still be on the track a little bit more. And then still consider. And learned other things. So in some ways I did do that, but I just feel like there's an opportunity where like I, I didn't have to go.

So off the, off the pace, let's say. 

J.R.: I see. 

Kenta: Yeah.

J.R.: In the last few years, what new belief, behavior, or habit has improved your life?

Kenta: That we are all shaped by each other.

yeah. And that we all bear responsibility for. You know, like sometimes like we can feel like we're kind of like crazy. We're like, well, how, why am I thinking about this? It's like, yeah, but that's not you. That's you're a culmination of the society, like you, like we are a reflection of the village, the culture that we grew up in.

You know? So it's not to say that we have to live by that but it's also to give ourselves a little bit more compassion and love and be like, take a step back and start with like, where's the roots? Who, why do you believe this? Who give you this ideas? You know, how has this [01:26:00] been manufactured or produced or passed on to you and why?

And just like that awareness helps me like be a little bit more critical. It's like a critical theory kind of thing, you know? It's like take a step back and look at the conditions that have brought about certain ideas in my life. 

J.R.: Next one. How do you define success? 

Kenta: These days I feel like successes if you can just be like unapologetically and lovingly you, so yeah.

So not like a performance, like an egotistical performance. Like I'm not, I don't wanna reward like sociopaths and stuff like that, but you know, if you can really find a practice to come back to something that feels like honest and truthful to you over and over again, I think that's like really, really, really hard for a lot of people in the world.

And I think it's very successful. You know? So someone like you, like maybe it's a big practice for you too, but I'd be like, wow that's success. You know? Yeah.

Because everything else comes and goes, you know? 

J.R.: Alright, next one. You might have already covered this, but what's something you've been [01:27:00] pondering a lot recently or think about often, deeply? 

Kenta: Yeah, I think it's the attachment thing. Like the non-attachment. 

J.R.: Yeah. It's the root of everything. 

Kenta: Yeah. 

J.R.: Favorite hot take or something you think most people would not agree with?

Kenta: I don't know. 'cause I feel like I hang around people who agree with me. No. Perfect. 

J.R.: Your echo chamber. 

Kenta: Yes. No. I think I'm great. So no, I maybe 

J.R.: you're so mainstream Kenta. 

Kenta: I'm so mainstream. I mean there's probably a lot of things and some things maybe I should keep to myself and not on the podcast, but I think we should live in a world without borders.

I thinkthere's a possibility for a coexistence where we honor like that humans are migratory and I mean, yeah, we also settle, but basically like nations and borders are like all made up. And I think I get that it's not a snap of a finger. We do it tomorrow. I get that there's a lot of steps that would need to happen, but I would love to believe in a version of our world where we don't need to [01:28:00] divide each other with fake lines.

J.R.: I like that a lot. Tangent. That's also the whole, I don't know how you feel about race and ethnicity, but I feel the same way when people talk about like race in that sense. And my thought is like, you know how race is just a social construct. And so we're like, oh, like what is your race based on this, this phenotype?

And I'm like, but that's all just made up. Yeah, there are cultures that we pass along, but it's hard to get into this, but it's like, let's say someone who looks phenotypically, let's say Caucasian or European or something like that, right? But they were born and raised and let's say Jamaica, I don't know, right?

You can say their phenotype looks more Caucasian if you put that in sort of a bubble. But if they have been culturally like their family, their friends, everything, and they've raised and they're purely Jamaican, then are they like, what race are they? Because it's such a construct that doesn't matter what your phenotype is, you could still be a different culture.

Right?

Kenta: Yeah. 

J.R.: That's [01:29:00] why I think about when you say nations are, because nations are also just made up. 

Kenta: Yeah, exactly. I think a lot of the things that, many things are constructs. Right? And I think a lot of the I just wish we lived in a, i, I, I hope we can move more and more towards realities of understanding that are far more nuanced.

And I think through that nuance, we can like move towards like at least questioning the constructs as like more normal. That it becomes more normal to be like, what is gender? What is race? What, why do we have borders? Like to a point where then hopefully some of those things start to dissipate and be like, huh, yeah.

I agree with you, right? Now we're in an echo chamber. But I'm like, yeah, like there are cultures that get passed down like in lineages and that gets passed down. Like it's not to take away any of those things. But yeah, I think about it a lot. There are people who are, you know, who are like, even like they're ancestrally like from.

Sudan or something, but like they grew up in Japan and like those people are like far more Japanese than me. 'cause I just didn't grow up in Japan. [01:30:00] That's what I 

J.R.: Exactly. It's like that sort of thing. 

Kenta: Yeah. And a really good one is like Korean people who are like, who are their ancestry from Korea and they like, grew up in Japan.

You can't even tell the difference Sometimes I'm like, those people are way more Japanese than me not to take away the koreanness. Like of course they're 

J.R.: of course 

Kenta: they're still Korean. If, you know, if that's how they feel. But yeah, I mean it is a construct, right? Yeah. 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. 

Kenta: So 

J.R.: I like that.

Let's see. I think you would have a good answer for this 'cause I don't really ask this one much, but what do you think are some of the differences between how you see yourself versus how others see you, if at all?

Kenta: How I see myself versus how others see you?

think that others think about me more negatively than, not all, not even like than they do, but I just don't fundamentally think people think about you as much as one thinks people think about them. So, 

J.R.: As a, in a macro level, you don't think people think about yourself as much as you think they think [01:31:00] about you? 

Kenta: Yeah. Because we're all thinking about ourselves more 

J.R.: ourselves. 

Kenta: Right, right. Yeah. Right. So it's not to say they're not thinking about you. And it's not to say, sometimes people do project and like fixate oh, this person really frustrates me. They're like, this is the, they're the problem of my life right now. But like a lot of that is it's in them, like most things. Like they, it's an experience of the self.

So, you know. It's like that Evan Gallian thing, right? It's like there's a version of us. there's, there's like multitudes of me. There's like me as I experience myself. There's even me as I think others experience of myself. There's a, there's a me that, how you experience me. There's like thou, there's like millions, like infinite versions of me, you know? So it's like, yeah, at some point that's also the an attachment thing. Yeah. So we can't be so attached to these concepts of ourself.

J.R.: Of course. So I agree with that. So now is there actually a specific thing that you think, how Kenta sees Kenta versus how other people see Kenta? Do you think there is or not? I'm just curious. [01:32:00] Or do you think it's consistent? 

Kenta: Yeah. I, no, I think there is, because I think my idea understanding is what I think you think of me, you know what I mean? It's like we're playing telephone. 

I don't actually know what you think of me. You can try to articulate and communicate it to me, but the totality of what you actually think of me, I, I'll never know, you know? 

J.R.: Mm-hmm. Okay. So you chalk it up as, I don't know how other people think of me. So you therefore you can't say that it's consistent with how you think of yourself.

Kenta: Yeah. Because it's also changing, and I think this is part of the dharmic traditions. I think also in yoga, but like Buddhism, it's like there at every moment there's a new version of us infinitely over and over and over and over again. 

J.R.: A new iteration. 

Kenta: Yeah. Yeah. 

J.R.: Mm. 

Kenta: It's like, I don't know. Okay. Like I'm a different person than an hour ago. Right, 

J.R.: right. Okay. I like that answer. You didn't answer my question, but I like the answer. Alright. What? 

Kenta: it's a we'll move on wise man. Answer. I answer it? 

J.R.: [01:33:00] Yeah. 

Kenta: Yeah. With a non-answer. 

J.R.: Like, look, I just wanted to fish and you gave me this fishing lesson.

No, I just wanted, I wanted to fish from you. I didn't wanna learn anything.

What, what is one of the best or most worthwhile investments you've made in either time, money, energy, et cetera?

Kenta: That's a very hard one, but I, eh, I think coaching actually, I think

yeah, as far as I can think now I think any kind of like help from others. It doesn't have to be a coach. It could be a therapist, it could be a friend, it could be a mentor, it could be whatever, but just like someone who can help guide you, especially if it's like. We live in a culture where we're not always have access to like elders.

So it's like nice to have people who are able to yeah, just like help, like very lovingly and compassionately, like create space to guide you into whatever is and the muck of uncertainty you're moving through, you know? Yeah. I think for me that it was a big change for me when I started working with [01:34:00] coaches in the last, you know, since 2019 essentially.

J.R.: I like that. I vibe with that.

Okay. I'll go to my last, last one for rapid fire, 

but do you have any favorite books, movies, videos, articles, media, or anything you share or recommend the most, if at all? 

Kenta: Yeah I think like James Baldwin, people should read his work. I think people should read Frantz Fanon's work.

J.R.: Franz Fanon is an author. 

Kenta: Yeah. And he's a psycho psych 

J.R.: psychotherapist. 

Kenta: psychoanalysts. Yeah. 

J.R.: A psychoanalyst. 

Kenta: Yeah. I don't know. I think people should just read like books from revolutionaries and thinkers.

Like bell hooks and yeah, there's there's a book called Love and Rage that I read by Lama Rod, which was like, really good. So there's like a lot of books that I think I could recommend. I'm reading a book right now by a guy named Las Toil. It's it's called The Slow Transition from Capitalism to Socialism.

J.R.: Mm-hmm. 

Kenta: Which is also pretty good. [01:35:00] Yeah. 

J.R.: Okay. 

Kenta: I dunno, I think people should read like books about like society and like critical thinking and how we can make change and stuff like that. 

J.R.: Yeah, I like it. That reminds me of my entire undergrad studying poli sci is all these 

Kenta: Yeah. 

J.R.: Critical thinking thought leaders and like, okay.

That's cool. 

Kenta: Yeah, because it also, it's not about it's like you don't need to read it to try and buy into a dogma, right? Or like a ideology, but it's like, it helps you think, I think that's the thing that's really beautiful. Like it helps you try and understand like how society works. How do we think about these things?

How do we be critical even of the critical thinkers, you know? So I think this is something that like we really need right now is like how do we be honest, right? Lovingly honest with the society and with the conditions and with each other. And I think the right critical thinkers can help us learn how to think about these things.

J.R.: Oh, and now I remember what I was gonna say, but when you're talking about like [01:36:00] nuance, how you think there should be more nuance in the world. I totally agree. And what I've come to the conclusion of, or at least my reflections, is that I think the reason why people don't implore more nuance is because they're so used to relying on these heuristics and generalizations as like rules of thumb or just how they operate in life, like less critically thinking, less nuance.

And that's why we run into these problems of lack of understanding of each other and empathy and these sort of broad strokes because it's a shortcut for our brain to understand the world, which I understand the sentiment, like our brains were evolved to use these heuristics to navigate more successfully.

But I think in this modern day and age that is now a handicap, because we're so anti nuanced and it doesn't allow us to really understand and connect with people. 

Kenta: Yeah. One of the things that I been like often talk about with my wife is and it's not a, it's not like a moral judgment of good or bad on any particular person.

I'm also part of this, but it, we're often so afraid of taking the [01:37:00] hard route. To your point, like it's easier for our brains to just like go to the easy that makes sense. Easier to take the easy route. But it's so like generalization and you know, we think about that also with movement.

Like it's easier for people to take ozempic. Some people need it. Like it's a, mm-hmm. I get it. If it's like you have an actual medical condition, but like people, for some people it's I'll just take a diet pill or I'll just go get surgery. It's a shortcut. It's a shortcut Instead of like understanding like, well one, like putting the time and effort into.

If you really want to transform your body physically, but also like you can think about like, why do I feel like the need to transform myself in the first place? There's a lot of thought that can go into everything, but it's like easier to be like, well, I wanna look like Kim Kardashian, so I'm gonna get a butt lift.

Or okay, now actually it's no longer a butt lift. It's whatever, you know? And I think it's the same with the way that we relate to each other, right? So that's why we live in this very blue versus red world when really like we have to take a step out and be like, don't [01:38:00] you know? Like I often find that if we just take a moment, like really listen to people, like there'll be disagreements and probably like many things that we don't like about each other, just from the way we grew up.

But there's also a lot of like overlaps, you know? And I think that's where the nuance, but you need to be patient and you need, it's hard 'cause you have to like mm-hmm. Be emotionally patient. You have to be intellectually patient with each other.

I know I'm not always greatest at it, so Yeah. It's just to reflect back I really agree with you. Like it, so many of us take the easy route, which is the generalizations and the he said, she said, and the whatever, Yeah. Versus the hard route, which is like, it forces you to really like, confront things, you know? It just sucks and it's hard. 

J.R.: Yeah. I most people aren't willing to put in the hard work and understandably I get it, but it's like you, you'll find yourself hitting a wall with that sort of thing if you don't put in the effort. So I totally agree. 

Kenta: Yeah. 

J.R.: Okay. That is all I have for rapid fire.

You [01:39:00] made it to the end. Congratulations. All I have left are ending questions. Yeah.

But I don't know if you had any other lingering thoughts you wanted to throw out there before we wrap up. 

Kenta: No. We should definitely hop on a call and catch, have a little bit more of a catch up call In a couple weeks and just get to hear 

A little bit more. I'm also just like realizing that it's past 11 and I'm a little tired now, so. Yeah, 

J.R.: yeah, yeah. 

Kenta: Exactly. Yeah. But, but, but thanks for staying on. No, no, no. I really enjoyed it and I wish I could talk more. I also, I'm also just really mindful of the fact I'm like, I don't know how you're gonna edit down a two hour podcast, but yeah.

I, I trust you. It 

J.R.: probably won't, it'll only be like three minutes editing tops. It's gonna be more free. Just this. 

Kenta: Yeah. So people will just like, sit and listen to us. 

J.R.: They'll listen if you made it this far. Congratulations. You've, you listen to us rambling. Hopefully you enjoyed it.

Kenta: Yeah. All right. Well, I'm ready for the last questions. Yeah, 

J.R.: yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we'll definitely catch up to we'll throw something on calendar, whatever makes sense. Yeah.

So ending questions. We always end with gratitude. Shout out to my mom. What are you grateful for, Kenta? 

Kenta: Yeah. Like I said a few [01:40:00] times I'm grateful for you.

I'm grateful for all the people in my village that have helped me be who I am today beyond name. Yeah. I'm just really grateful for my body. I'm grateful for my partner, grateful for my family. Yeah, I just, I feel very grateful. There's so much bad shit going on in the world, but I'm very, I feel very privileged with where I am in my life.

And yeah. And I also feel, yeah, very grateful for this world that we live in. You know, the little g god, I guess one could say.

It's a little bit of a watery answer, but I just, I just feel very grateful for my life and for everybody in it. 

J.R.: I love that. Yeah.

All right. Second to last question, any final ask from the audience or any final takeaways you'd like them to have from our conversation? 

Kenta: I mean, shit, if you made it this far, I don't know. I think any takeaways?

I think it's interesting to, if you have a moment to examine like where your thoughts, like where do your thoughts root [01:41:00] from? 

J.R.: Mm. 

Kenta: I think is a very interesting practice. You know, whatever that thought is. Like where does that come from? Is it somebody's voice? Like from the past? Is it your own voice from an experience?

Is it something you learned in through society, through culture? I'm just like, I would just get curious, like, where did my thoughts come from? You know?

J.R.: I love that. That's actually very good. I'm gonna take that one for myself. 

Kenta: Cool. 

J.R.: Alright, so, last question. I'll link everything that you've sent me, your website, social media, but if people wanna connect or see what you're up to, where can they find you?

Kenta: Yeah, so you can follow me on Instagram, which is Kenta Thomas. I have a newsletter or I have a website, which is kenta thomas nowy.com. And then if you go on that, you can find my newsletter, which is probably where I will direct most of my attention to more and more. 'cause I'm slowly trying to move away from social media more or less or at least not be as reliant on it.

So I would say those are the three places, [01:42:00] like website, newsletter, and then I am still on Instagram and I probably will post a little bit more still, so you can find me there. 

J.R.: Sweet. Cool. Awesome. Well, cool. 

Kenta: Thank you, Ken. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. And for having a, like more than two hour conversation at this point.

J.R.: Yeah. No, yeah. Thank you so much. I appreciate it for the extra time. I know I was trying to keep it tight, but you know, I guess we both had fun, so whatever.

Kenta: Lots of fun. 

J.R.: I'll wrap it up now. So first off, thank you Kena for being here. I really appreciate it. Again, I think, it's always nice to reconnect with someone like you who's very grounding also from my past.

And so I think reconnecting with you helps to reconnect with my past self. And then just hearing your experiences firsthand as opposed to just over social media has been such a joy for me. So I'm definitely gonna listen to this episode again for my own benefit and pleasure. So thank you for that.

And then for the audience, thank you guys for being here.

I really appreciate it. Be sure to like follow us, subscribe, et cetera. Five stars, whatever platform.

Leave Kenta love in the comments below. Shout out.

And also reminder to always be kind to other people, especially [01:43:00] yourself. You never know what people are going through. And reminder that you can always learn something from someone if you take the time to listen.

So thanks for being here. 

Kenta: Mm. I love that. Thank you.