Why Did I Become A Doctor South Africa
Why Did I Become A Doctor - Real Stories from Professionals Who Chose Their Path
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Why Did I Become A Doctor South Africa
Kaokie Sepuru: Why I Became an Oral Hygienist, Not a Dentist
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She could have studied dentistry. She chose instead to become the person who helps make sure you never need one.
Kaokie Sepuru, full name Mmakaoka Sepuru, is an oral hygienist who has been involved in the leadership of the Oral Hygiene Association of South Africa (OHASA) since her first year in the profession. In this conversation she makes a quietly powerful case for oral hygiene as a calling in its own right.
Kaokie grew up in Soweto, raised by a single mother, Iris, a teacher who later became a principal, always wanted more for her only child, and moved the family out to Northcliff. According to Kaokie, an aptitude test once told her she should be an accountant, but she knew she needed people and movement rather than a desk and numbers. She found oral hygiene almost by chance at a University of Pretoria open day, and she has not looked back since.
In conversation with Yash and Yak, she traces the path from shadowing an orthodontist, to a mobile dental truck serving communities across the country, to the Waterfall practice where she has worked for eleven years alongside specialist prosthodontist Dr Ashana Harryparsad. She explains why she calls herself a "floss fairy", why she believes prevention should come first, and how she has taught patients who cannot afford floss to improvise with what they have.
She is just as open about the parts of the job that rarely get spoken about: the patient who wept in her chair and called it a "safe space", the frightened children she has coaxed into trusting her, and why she measures her own success by how many people choose to come back. Her view is a simple one, that you do not have to be a doctor to heal people.
Beyond the chair, Kaokie's work with OHASA and with ITOP has taken her to Dubai, Nigeria and Egypt as a speaker and instructor, mentored along the way by Stella Lamprecht and Angelique Kearney. She speaks candidly about turning down work abroad, the ongoing and affectionate argument with her mother who still wishes she had become a dentist, and why she has chosen to build her life in South Africa.
Follow Kaokie on Instagram: @kaokie_xing
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This episode of A Why Did I Become a Doctor is brought to you in partnership with Medical Brief, South Africa's leading daily healthcare news service. Stay informed with trusted reporting, expert insights, and analysis that matters to healthcare professionals. Subscribe free at medicalbrief.co.za forward slash subscribe. Enjoy the show. Is it cold outside? I haven't been outside.
SPEAKER_06I'd rather be hot than cold. Really? Yeah, I am one of those people. I will lay out. It's usually much colder than cold. Now, if you if I if you want to see me miserable, put me in a cold place.
SPEAKER_02Is the temperature fine for you though? No.
SPEAKER_06Oh no, this is perfect. This is like home.
SPEAKER_02It's only gonna get warmer from from now on.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, that's okay.
SPEAKER_02You're in the hot seat.
SPEAKER_01Stop. Miss Makaoka Sepul.
SPEAKER_06Love the way you pronounce it. Yes. Makauka Sepur. Makaoka.
SPEAKER_01You tell people that, right?
SPEAKER_06That's the one.
SPEAKER_01You know you're an influencer.
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_06I wouldn't call myself an influencer. I think I'm more influential.
SPEAKER_01Well, look, I'm telling you as a person that's been influenced by you. You know in what um In what regard. You you are like my music um what's the word? Music exploration. No. Discovery. Music discovery person.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know there's that song Magia, change your words. You put it on your thing somewhere, and then I'm like, oh, this is a cool song. And I started using it, and then it happened with a couple of other tracks also. So you're my influencer for music discovery.
SPEAKER_06I'm so glad that someone is actually seeing my videos of my weird drives home. Like what?
SPEAKER_02People see these things. Yeah, but when you sing it on Instagram. Yeah. You're using your backtrack.
SPEAKER_06So I'm the type of person who just ran like I love music and I cannot drive in silence. I think when I drove into here, it was there was a loud like blast that was coming through. Um but I love music. I never wanted to be a musician or anything like that, but I just I've always had an ear for music. And I, yeah, it just keeps me going. It's it's it's one way of just forgetting about the world. And I don't know, there's just something just very yeah, spiritual with some of it. And some of it is just strange music. Sometimes I listen to music in languages that I don't understand, that I can not even speak, and then next thing I know, I'm speaking a language, well, singing a language fluently. And yeah, that's that's the beauty of music.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, what's your Instagram handle? I'm gonna be in quiet. Is that what you're playing on your phone? Yeah.
SPEAKER_06It's Kauki underscore shing, but X I N G. K-A-O-K-I-E. Yes. That's the one.
SPEAKER_01Okay, cool. So unofficial influencer, but what do you officially do?
SPEAKER_06Like what's your So I'm an oral hygienist by profession.
SPEAKER_01What do they do?
SPEAKER_06What my profession does. I bring smiles to those who have lost them over the years.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Um I think for me, like you could we can we can speak as as dent dentists and hygienists and even in the medical field, like, yeah, so we do preventative treatment. But at the end of the day, for me, it's bringing a smile to someone who thought they wouldn't be able to walk out and show their teeth.
SPEAKER_01And did you always want to do this? Or where did it come from? Have you ever thought about this?
SPEAKER_06I have, I have. Uh I woke up one day and I mean the question gets asked, what do you want to be when you grow up? And my answer was, I wanted to be a firefighter.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Don't and I was young when I answered this question. And for years I've always wanted to be a firefighter, and my mom always laughed at me, and everyone always laughed at me. And then I grew up and I I dug deeper into what made me want to be a firefighter, and it was more of saving people. And I knew that somehow I needed to save people, and I didn't I didn't need to be a doctor to do it. Um and the oral hygiene path, it was it didn't really come very like it wasn't clear, like yeah, you're gonna be a hygienist one day. Um where did you grow up? So I grew up in Soweto, in a place called Mufulo Central. And I went to Model C schools from both, well, from primary school. Nursery school, actually. Yeah. So my mom did not want me to grow up um a normal child. She's always wanted more for me. And she was a teacher, and she's now retired.
SPEAKER_00What grade?
SPEAKER_06Uh so she taught high school, um, a high school in Pymville in Soweto. And I was like, Oh, why didn't you go to your mom's school? And she was like, You're never going to go to a school that I'm teaching at, number one. And number two, she just always wanted me to do better and reach heights that no one would have expected. And when she I'm gonna I'm gonna, I'm jumping around, but when she found out that, like when I told her that I want to be an oral hygienist, obviously she did she did her research, and she was like, Don't you want to be a dentist? I was like, Yeah, I would. And I was like, but let me go to an open day and see what careers there are. Because it it was never clear-cut for me. Obviously, my firefighter dreams went out the window when I realized that I like nice things. Um, and I want to afford them myself. And I am from the township, but I never wanted to stay there forever. And my mom also moved us out, and we moved to North Cliff. And I mean, most people, or most people who are in the townships sometimes never leave. And yes, you can become, there's nothing wrong with staying in the township, but she wanted more for me, and she wanted to put me in an environment where I'd be able to build connections with people and grow. And I mean, I used to go to school with, you know, those combis that pick you up and then they take you to school. And and I mean, it was, it was humble beginnings, and I never felt like I lacked anything. Um, I, yeah, it was, it was, it was just like a the oral hygiene path came about when I decided, okay, look, I need to go to a university and figure out what I want to do. Because in high school, the aptitude test I took told me that I should be an accountant.
SPEAKER_02Okay. That's different.
SPEAKER_06And I do not like numbers. And I do not like sitting behind a chair and you've got a you've got a personality, yes, exactly. And I'm and I'm not saying anything about accountants. I love you, Mike. I have a lot of accountant friends and CAs, and I I've just never found myself to be someone who'd be sitting behind a desk and working with numbers. I talk a lot. Yeah. I ramble, and I needed to be in a profession that You put the oral in oral hygiene. Yes, exactly, exactly. And um the oral hygiene path came when I went to Tux and I did the open day, and I spoke to an oral hygienist, and obviously it was just a few people who were there, and I went to I went to the dental, the dental faculty because obviously I don't know what brought me to that, but I think I knew I needed to be.
SPEAKER_01I mean, because I'm thinking so where to Witz is nearby-ish. I didn't want to go to Witz because all my friends went to Witz.
SPEAKER_06That's strange.
SPEAKER_01Is there a good reason to actually want to go? Or you like them?
SPEAKER_06No, no, I loved my friends, but I knew that if I stayed close to my friends, I'd never see more. Okay. I would possibly say, okay, yeah, maybe let me also study what you're studying. I needed to be out of my comfort zone. Everyone's in marketing, everyone's a lawyer, um, I've got accountants as well. So everyone is, yeah, it's where they need to be. But no one is in health.
SPEAKER_01And you thought, teeth, let me clean teeth.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and but it wasn't even about teeth. But am I oversimplifying?
SPEAKER_01I thought you were gonna have a, I thought you were gonna come at me. I was about to, and that's like a thing. I was about to come at me. Wait, wait, wait. But but hold on. There's two things we got in common. Mums are both teachers or retired teachers. And I also wanted to be a firefighter, hey? Like I know truck driver, but because I used to have a fire, a little fire engine that I'd pull around. Yeah, I wanted to drive that thing.
SPEAKER_02Um I wanted to be an arsonist. An arsonist. Oh, so you are. I thought it was artists.
SPEAKER_06So we're all just getting along, like we just have to say.
SPEAKER_01There you look here.
SPEAKER_06I love how you're just keeping up with the lingo. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I'm young, what do you mean? Uh keeping up. I'm creating the lingo. Gaoki, come on.
SPEAKER_05Love it for you, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, but now this is not a surely it's not a you uh uh like a usual thing where somebody wakes up one day and is like, okay, I want to be an oral hygienist. Did you play? You know, there's like there's these simulator games. We learned recently from a guest who actually actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That what inspired them potentially uh like not just this, but it was an app that they used to play on their iPad or iPhone where they would clean teeth, like scaling and polishing.
SPEAKER_02And then if you go out of the boundary, then you're obviously nicking the gum and you're causing any.
SPEAKER_06This was 2011. I was deaf. No. I um 2011, yes. No, no, my trigger was 2010. Yeah. So 2011, um, I don't think I was that technological. Yes, I had a cell phone from grade six, but I was never, I don't know. I I mean my research, I was very nerdy, if I'd like to think. I was very old school where I used to do a lot of my assignments using encyclopedias.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_06Uh I wasn't really going on Google. I know it's very odd, like I look back and I'm like, why was I using an encyclopedia? You know, when there was so much information. And I realized just because I was such a bookworm. I loved to read. And I mean, I used to go to the public library. Um, it's closed now, then it's in Berario. And I was so sad when they closed that library. But I think I had read probably all the kids' section books or children's section books. Um, and I was even allowed to take more than that was that was than was allowed. So they used to say, Oh, you're not allowed to take out five. And I made friends with the book privilege. Yeah, and I was up made friends with the librarian, and she was just like, you know what, because you always bring your books back every week, we'll increase it to 10. Oh, so I thought it was good. I really loved, I loved reading when I was younger.
SPEAKER_01You had a good credit record at the library.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I never lost a book. I probably paid one fine. I think I probably owe them 250, but they don't tell anyone.
SPEAKER_02That interest has now grown.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, well, they're closed now, so they won't they'll never find out. But I did give back all the books. And yeah, I think my love for reading, I I think it was possibly something in my head where I read that I needed to help people, or I read a story about and about someone who was a doctor or a someone in the health field who saved someone's life. And I think that's where the spark for health came in. Um, and I mean I'm an only child, so I couldn't like really look at my brother or sister and say, okay, what are you doing? Like, how's work?
SPEAKER_01Do you wish you had a sibling?
SPEAKER_06No. No. I I think I've lived quite a full life.
SPEAKER_01Um This is a selfish question, I'm asking, because I've got an only child.
SPEAKER_06No, have a child for your child. Have a sibling. Do you know the thing is? I think with with me, I had so many cousins and friends. I never felt alone.
SPEAKER_01And I think the same ones that you wanted to get away from.
SPEAKER_06Yes, I know. But we're still like very close now. Like if you see my videos, you know I'm with my friends every other week. Um yeah, but I think the reading part just opened up my mind to doing something that's not the norm.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_06And I think oral hygiene, I'd never heard of it before. Let me tell you this now.
SPEAKER_01Where did you come across it first then?
SPEAKER_06Can you remember? At the open day. Yeah, so I went to the Tux Open Day and I spoke to the dental students, I spoke to the oral hygiene students, and I and then I obviously after once you leave, your mind is like, okay. And I oh, I also wanted to do physiotherapy. So this must have been 2010. Yes. When you did the open day. 2010. Yes. 2010.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And because that was the year I I qualified at Tux.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01So I was definitely not.
SPEAKER_05There's our age gap. So don't ask me about my age.
SPEAKER_01I won't ask you what I'm drinking. We'll just search you on HPCSA as well.
SPEAKER_05I have no issues with my age.
SPEAKER_01So who three adjustments? Do you remember who, like, uh if anybody had an influence on you there at the open day, you don't remember people or ended up working with or in the vicinity of these people that you saw that day, not really?
SPEAKER_06Not really. I think I'm probably I think it was probably something that was set to me or and and it clicked without me even realizing that, hey, this is something I can actually go into because I was so set, like I as I mentioned, it was it was very difficult for me to just choose one thing.
SPEAKER_01Um what else were you thinking of?
SPEAKER_06Physiotherapy.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_06And I think it was also there was I forgot it was something at Stelli's.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And I thought to myself, oh my gosh, am I gonna move to Cape Town? I can move to PTA. Pretoria's not far. Plus, I'll be able to see my mom like whenever I want. But I don't want to be at Vitz because Vits is too close to home, meaning I'd have to stay at home. And I wanted to just see more of the world. And I think it just started with, okay, let's let's go to UP. It's not far away. It's like 60 kilometers from home. It's not bad. I'll learn how to drive. I've always wanted to learn how to drive, so I started learning to drive at like 18, nine, 19. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And res? Or where did you?
SPEAKER_06No, I stayed at, you know, one of the reses, but not the varsity race, the one that is off campus.
SPEAKER_01Like Rivera.
SPEAKER_06Yes, Riviera Varsity Lodge. So that was a really it was a lovely place because it's So you're a bit spoiled-ish.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You didn't have to go to Res.
SPEAKER_06It taught me a lot of independence and I'm not spoiled. I wouldn't say spoiled. I'd say privileged. Yeah. And my mom never, and I'm I say it, she never made me feel like I lack anything. Um, and not to say that we were the wealthiest people. She's an own, she's a single mom.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_06And she was a teacher. But even being a teacher, she was HOD in her position. And then at some point she used to be a principal, and then she would, she even went and studied in her 50s to become a principal and actually, you know, further what she's doing just before she retired. But anyway.
SPEAKER_02So she's retired now. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_06Just before COVID, which was the smartest thing because no one wanted to have to deal with your parents being or like working during that time. I mean, we didn't even want to work during that time. So thankfully, something, I think it was just divine intervention, where she just decided, you know what, I'm going to retire. And I didn't understand it, but I was like, okay, what are you gonna do?
SPEAKER_01But so your mom is like your rock.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, she is. And how how was it leaving home then? You know what? It was it was a bit of it was an interesting time because because I'm so opinionated and African, right? Those two, I don't know if they really, really mix. Because there's a lot of there are a lot of elements of not speaking back or like just speaking out when you don't agree with something that an elder says. And obviously my mom was also opinionated. I mean, she raised an opinionated daughter. So we used to clash a lot on our like what we how we think and and and just certain topics and the way life is. Because I was like, yeah, I want to live, I want to do this. And she'd be like, no, you need to study, you need to do this. And and I was like, no, I need to see the world, I need to, you know, broaden my horizon. She's like, no, focus on on studying and work. And so already that, so when when I told her that I want to wanted to go to UP, she was okay, she was happy with the decision because I was going to be studying something that I want to do, not what someone else was telling me to do.
SPEAKER_01And you think she was hoping maybe you'll go into dentistry?
SPEAKER_06Because she still is, she still wants me to branch off. And my argument with her now, still to this day, we still argue about it.
SPEAKER_01Um by the way, what you're describing apparently is like a typical mother-daughter dynamic for mother-daughter.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a normal snored, and it's healthy.
SPEAKER_01From what you've heard.
SPEAKER_02From what I've read and you've got a wife, man, a shorter. I'm looking up on dragging, I'm not dragging people here. What I've heard, yeah. Carry on.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and um, I I don't know. She was she was um very supportive of my my decision, but she's always wanted me to do more and be more. And then I said to her, and I was like, what makes you think I'm not a really good hygienist? And then she's like, Oh, what do you mean? I'm like, okay, let's sit down and think about the accomplishments that I've had. Like, I'm not gonna name everything, but I've done a lot, I feel like I've done a lot. I do a lot of talks, um, I speak, I even the patients that I've got, they come back. That's the most important thing for me. When patients come back and you are a young woman, a young black woman, and it's not even about race, but it I'm gonna tell you why I say yes, it is, and not about race. I'm a young black woman and I have CEOs, I have the ministers, I have influences, I have a three-year-old child, I have grandparents, I have parents who come to me and they keep coming back. And you know, I mean, in our field, if someone doesn't like you, they're not gonna come back to see you. If you hurt me, I'm not going back to see you. So might not complain, but they'll just quietly go somewhere else. No, my comp my I know people who complain. I think the people the patients I've worked it, trust me, I know.
SPEAKER_02But don't even hurt, just like feel comfortable.
SPEAKER_06Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_02And I think not even anything to do with what you do, just like the feeling you can do.
SPEAKER_01But there's this there's this saying that I've I've saw somewhere, which says just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect. It's a deep one, but so you obviously see the ones that complain. But the ones that quietly go away and never come back. And I like your point about it's a good metric to see how many people return to you. Because that's a good sign or indicator of how good you are at what you're doing, right?
SPEAKER_06Yeah. So I remember, I mean, now that you say that, I remember one of I think there's a few patients who've who've done that where they I don't see them for like a year and a half, and then they'll come back. And I'm like, oh, where have you been? Oh, it's good to see you again. Because I don't I don't figure it phases. And okay. Like I if I've seen your teeth, I'll remember you for life. Yeah. So um the patient came back and I'm like, where have you been? Are you have you been okay? Like, what's been happening? And she said, Yeah, I went somewhere else. They've been cheating on you. Yeah, exactly. I was like, you cannot cheat on your barber, and I'm mad. You know, you cannot cheat on your you cannot cheat on your hygienist either. And yeah, the patient said, you know what? I went to different people thinking that you were just a lot because you gave me so much information. And she was like, I didn't really know if you really it was the truth. And that's so nice of them to be truthful, transparent. But that's the thing, I've that's the kind of relationships that I've built with my patients where they feel comfortable telling me anything. Um and and and and she said, she was like, yeah, it was a female who had said this to me, and she was just like, yeah, and I went to other people and you know it just wasn't the same. Okay. And I was like, thank you. Thanks for coming back, please never leave me again.
SPEAKER_01But also, I like the story because you also are being open and telling us that actually, even though you might be great, you might just not click with something.
SPEAKER_06Exactly, exactly. And you can't be liked by everyone. We're not all money.
SPEAKER_01Yes, nobody can be liked by anyone, right? There's nobody that's universally liked.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And and I mean people are even dragging Mandela these days. You know what I mean? Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06So it's it's it's it was nice to know that you know I'd made an impact in someone's life. And I think for me, the one way I can tell that I think I I think I I think I might be good at my job. When you can convince a child to come back for treatment, that for me is like a child who was scared. Like I've had kids who like walk in and they are shaking like visibly and you don't I don't know how to control it. Or or even working with a mom who has a child with a disability and they they've they've been everywhere else, and no one can calm that child down and get them into the chair and and get them to cooperate. And I think it's just more than more than the skill that you have, I think it's also just putting yourself in other people's shoes.
SPEAKER_01And well, you do you don't get okay, let's let's go back back to to school, like uh university, right? You know when kids come shaking and nervous, doesn't that also transfer to you as a never done?
SPEAKER_06I'm an energies person. Like I if someone is sad and or like going through something, I can feel it. Like it's it's just something that I've just I didn't realize it, but I can always just pick up on people's things. So if someone comes in happy, oh I'm gonna match your energy. But if someone comes in sad, like I think I take myself to where they are and then I work from there. I'm not gonna come in like hot and heavy, like, hi, so do we want to do this? No. You have to get down to that person's level and and understand why they are the way they are. But did that come naturally?
SPEAKER_01That kind of thing. I mean, surely there's a first time. Like the first time you ever saw a patient, do you remember?
SPEAKER_06I think it's innate.
SPEAKER_01You think so?
SPEAKER_06I think it's innate. Um straight yeah. I I've never, I mean, I've yes, we went to varsity and we did all classes and all the lectures about how to treat patients and all that. But does it mean that you're it's going to now translate into your actual work?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask. Does that translate to your private life? You got a friend that's sad.
SPEAKER_06Exactly.
SPEAKER_02What like what happens? You think you apply those same perspectives?
SPEAKER_06I'm a I'm a very I'm I'm an empathetic person. Um I I mean, strangely enough, so today, um I had a patient who came in, obviously can't not convention names, and she was in my chair and she told me a very deep story about what she's been going on in life, like what's been going on in her life, and we get Through it and then I'm doing her cleaning. And then like it's quiet. Because I normally have music playing in the background and I play very like it's like pan. I don't know if it's like very Zen. Yeah. No, the pan, you know the one that really like and it's just playing in the background. And then I just hear her like so and I look at her, I'm like, Are you okay? Like this is me doing doing a scaling. And she's like, No, I'm crying. And I'm like, wait, what's wrong? It's just like it's a safe space. She just said that to me. And I now I'm scaling and I'm and I I literally burst into tears and like I'm shaking.
SPEAKER_01And it's humans that you're dealing with, isn't it?
SPEAKER_06Yes. And I'm and I'm a very emotional person.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Like if you I can't watch something on TV and not cry. If something if someone's crying on TV, oh please give me a tissue now. Like that's the type of person that I am. So I think that also just translates into my work where I feel people's emotions. I feel for them.
SPEAKER_01Sounds like you love what you do.
SPEAKER_06I really do. And I see a lot of people who don't like their professions, and I'm like.
SPEAKER_01Isn't that success then? I mean, what's your mom's name? Iris. Mom Iris. I mean, that is success. I mean, you can't get better success than that.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, if you go and study dentistry, who knows how you're gonna feel? Yeah, yeah. Like to speak to somebody who I can feel loves what they do, that's when you know you've made it in life.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. I feel I really, and and that's why, and I even said to her, I was like, Mama, all I'll need to do is just become the best hygienist around. I mean, there are so many dentists that you know, but how many times will you hear someone say, I'm going to moral hygienist today? There's so many miserable dentists, there's so many miserable everything professionals, lawyers, and I never wanted, and I know I read, I used to read about, oh, dentistry, this and that, and dentists have the highest suicide rates. And I was like, no, I'm not going into that. Let's go into something else where I can, you know, speak through like what's going on.
SPEAKER_02And as a dentist, let me just say, like, your personality probably doesn't fit within dentistry. I mean, it is a very it's a depressive nature. Dentists have depressive.
SPEAKER_06We take on so much. Yeah. I mean, I the stories and the yeah, the things that I've been told by my patients. I went, when did I start? When did I start off? As a 20-something year old, 24, 23 year old, I shouldn't, I shouldn't have been taking on those types of burdens.
SPEAKER_01But And they don't train you on that. Yes. What is oral hygiene school like? What do you do? Take us through the the nitty-gritty. First year, is it just do you see patients?
SPEAKER_06So we see patients from the second year. Okay. First year is mainly theory. Um, right?
SPEAKER_01Three. Three, okay. Three-year degree. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And it's seeing patients, oh my gosh, now I have to go back like how many years, like 10 years, 11 years ago. That's nothing.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Trust me, that's not true.
SPEAKER_07Sometimes I blur out things that are traumatic. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, because it was a really it was it was stressful because you want to do well and you want to move on. You don't want to just be in university forever. I know some people study forever and they keep going that I'm playing. I just didn't want that. I didn't like school. Strangely enough, I loved reading, I loved books, but I didn't like that part of it. Like the sitting down, as I mentioned, I think sitting down behind a desk for me is like, it's so annoying.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_06I need to be doing something, I need to be active. And for me, getting out of university was like the happiest time. But I had a good time in university, even though it was a very difficult time as well. Because I mean, as much as racism isn't, I wouldn't say it's not happening as much, but like when I was studying, there were only two African students in my class and seven um white students, Caucasian students. And I was friends with the Caucasian students, and my closest friends were my friend was uh an Afrikan-speaking girl and uh English-speaking girl.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_06And we were just like the three musketeers.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And I think people just didn't understand it. And they were just like, Where are your black friends? Why are you not? And then I realized that race plays a huge part in everything. People didn't understand. They're like, yeah, you it it was it turned ugly.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06It was, it was never just like these people actually are great people. They're great humans.
SPEAKER_01Do the patients have issues?
SPEAKER_06The first time I They didn't have a choice. There's they'd be scared of you. I mean, the first thing they think of is, oh my goodness, this child is going to be working in my mouth. But at the same time, as I mentioned, the person's coming in with a problem that they need sorted. And you're the person that is going to sort out their problems. And whether they like it or not, they have to trust you. And you have to build or earn that trust with the first interview that you have when you're sitting across from them.
SPEAKER_01And can you remember like what procedures you had to do? Because we used to have in dentistry like a logbook, and we had to have a quota where you had to do a certain amount of X, Y, and Z. Was it for you guys? Was it like scaling and polishing? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06We had to do local anesthetic. We, I mean, everything that a dentist can do except root canals and fillings, pretty much.
SPEAKER_01What did you inject? Because the scope of, do you remember?
SPEAKER_06It was a it was a I think it was a 50-year-old man. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So you guys didn't inject each other. Wow, yeah. Like your classmates or yourself. See, see, maybe it's trauma.
SPEAKER_06Because I I don't remember that. And I wouldn't have been okay with that because I'm still, to this day, scared of injections. But let's not do I really I'm I'm I'm terrified. I had a um, I don't want to say this, but I had a filling done last week.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, a month ago, my boss did my filling for me. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Because oh hi genius, I suppose. Okay, well, obviously you can see like I'm I'm trying to fix my mouth with my braces and all that. But yeah, I was in the chair and I was nervous.
SPEAKER_01Did she charge you?
SPEAKER_06No, she never. And like the way I I I realized that I'm very anxious in a dental chair.
SPEAKER_01Isn't it funny though, right? You see the patients every day, and sometimes you might even get irritated by an over-anxious person. But when when the tables are turned.
SPEAKER_06I was so anxious. And I think it also, it was oh, now it's all coming back to me. Now you bloodboard. But I think it was also a childhood trauma.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Because I went to a dentist who, well, first of all, I was you mentioned before that I was very spoilt.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Um, so when my aunts and uncles. Yeah, I'm going through therapy now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_06But when I was growing up, my aunts and uncles always used to bring chocolates to the house, and my favorite was lunch bar.
SPEAKER_01That's not great for the, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Not for a child's mouth. And um, yeah, obviously, look, I'm eating a lot of sweeties. I'm independent because I know how to brush my teeth as a child, and I don't want anyone touching my mouth. So obviously, when obviously I get cavities, and those cavities need to be filled. And I just remember my dentist. I won't say his name because I still see I still know who he is. He sometimes watches the web and knows that I'm hosting. And I just remember him like just big fingers in my mouth, and like he used to watch rugby in the corner, and like sometimes he'd stop in between and just like watch the rugby match, like in the corner of the room. And I'm already freaked out. Now you're watching like a try, and I'm just like, oh my. So I think it it was also just that. I never felt comfortable. Yeah, I never felt like, okay, this person actually really just cares about me right now and is focused on me only. I I it I think it is, it starts, it stemmed there.
SPEAKER_02Undivided attention. Yes.
SPEAKER_06How did the filling go? The the recent one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, good.
SPEAKER_06Well, it's it's it's perfect. Perfect. The boss will be watching. No, but she's really good at what she does. So yeah, so got the feeling done, and like I just I just I was in the chair and she just says to me, You are worse than most patients that I treat. I'm like, and I'm so sorry. And like that's the the one way that I just get myself to just calm down is just to like hold my stuff, my stomach, and just close my eyes and open my mouth. I feel sorry for her.
SPEAKER_02I can just imagine what she was calling to me. Yeah, no, definitely. I did my assistant's wisdom the other day.
SPEAKER_05Oh no.
SPEAKER_02And look, I was I was fairly quick. And then she was like, oh my, like, she couldn't believe like how quick it is. Yeah. And then she's like, oh, well, how come it took so quick? I was like, Brennan, I've got to put a show on for everyone else. It could be quick for everyone, but it can't be that quick, and everyone thinks that, oh my god, is this how much they're charging me? I would not want to treat a colleague.
SPEAKER_06I do. I treat all the all my colleagues in the practice. Yeah. So, I mean, from Dr. Naido to Dr. Haribazad, everyone who c everyone who works at the practice will get treated by me. I mean, that's like whether you like it or not, because I want you to have good oral hygiene, and I don't want people laughing at you and saying, but how are you not getting your teeth cleaned by Kalki or?
SPEAKER_02Because you're oral hygienist.
SPEAKER_01It used to be your colleague. And who's the ex-colleague? And uh my my medical aide is telling me I need to get a do a dental check up by it's already passed in order to get my point. We can pause the part.
SPEAKER_05You really can get a a cleaning done for you now. I'm not such a good thing.
SPEAKER_01He charges me this year. I mean, they I had to pay.
SPEAKER_05Oh wow.
SPEAKER_01God damn straight. Terrible, terrible, yeah. Okay, yeah, true, true. Okay, but for people watching now and thinking, okay, maybe oral hygiene is for me. Like what do oral hygienists do? Yes, scope of practice. Um I don't need to call it scope of practice, because that sounds so- what do we do?
SPEAKER_06Sounds so technical. What do we do? So, simply put, yeah, we clean teeth and make sure that your oral hygiene is in the best state possible. And it's not just the teeth that we look at. We look at your mouth, we look at your gums, we look at your cheeks, we look at your tongue, we look at the roof of your palate, we look at everything that is, we look at your fingers, we look at your lips, your face, your eyes. Because when you're in or well, studying oral hygiene, you also study anatomy. And you will have to deal with seeing a cadaver in front of you and having to know all the nerves in the head and neck. And yeah, it's it's it's literally I would say it's holistic treatment. It's it's treating the patient as a whole, but just from looking at the mouth. Because there's so there are so many conditions that you can just find from a person's mouth. Um, you can see when a patient is diabetic, you can tell when someone has an STD or an SDI, you can tell when someone has simply gingivitis. And a lot of people don't know that they've got gingivitis. I mean, it's the the the simplest thing. Someone say, yeah, I mean, I've I bleed for years. Everyone in my family bleeds. So it's it's educating the patient on what is happening in their mouth.
SPEAKER_01And South Africans don't floss, huh? Don't have a culture of flossing, is it? Or am I just projecting from the.
SPEAKER_06And I am a floss fairy. I no one will leave my doors without flossing. I will call a friend to bring a floss.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_06I will go to my bag to find flow. Every single patient that I see needs to floss. It's and a lot of people think, oh no, it's not really that necessary.
SPEAKER_01But am I right? We we we weren't brought up that way. It's not part of all the.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I really don't think like there are some privileged people or some parents who were aware of their children's teeth or their own mouths, possibly flossed their kids' teeth or, you know, like brought them up that way. But not everyone was asked. But this is that.
SPEAKER_01No, but you mentioned the privileged thing, right? But this is the thing. I think even maybe it's my generation and prior, even the privileged people I know weren't so aware of the importance of flossing.
SPEAKER_06But can I go back to university? Yeah. Um, we used to go to impoverished communities and we used to do cleanings and scaling, like we do fidget sealants and scaling polishes for the patients. And it was always area, it was areas where patients couldn't afford, they couldn't always afford to pay for dental treatment. And I mean, even pillow paper as well. I will talk about pillow paper at some point. Um, but we used to tell patients, do you eat oranges? And the patients would say yes, and we say, the bag that the orange comes in, that's your floss going forward from today. You're gonna take some some um sunlight soap, the green bar soap, you're gonna wash that uh orange bag, and you're gonna take one strip out of there and you're gonna floss all your teeth. So from the time that I was studying, I made sure that every single patient flosses. Because if it's as simple as taking an orange bag, you don't need to go and buy a 110 Rand floss if you can't afford one. Most people will find some aid, even if it's just a string or from your clothes, that's how some people floss.
SPEAKER_01Or your hair.
SPEAKER_06I think the Oh your hair.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. No, but the weird thing, the funny thing about flossing is this, right? Failing to floss doesn't necessarily have like immediate impact, consequences. You don't see it immediately. When you're like older, and then there used to be this thing of, because I remember being told about grandparents, you know, like, oh yeah, old people just lose their teeth. It's part of getting becoming old. Meanwhile, it's actually because bone loss so there's so much more to it than that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Due to lack of flossing and all that stuff back in the day.
SPEAKER_06From childhood, from and on from like kids will come into the practice and I will give them floss and I'll tell them, we're going to do it together now, and you're gonna copy everything that I do. Kids' minds, they they're attentive, they will absorb anything that you tell them. As long as you make it seem like it's fun, they will do it. So if you get that habit from a young age and you go about life doing that, I mean, you you don't know how many days do I need to break to build a habit? Yes. And I mean, and I tell patients, you're gonna leave now, and when I come back in six months, please, can I not be the last person that flossed your teeth?
SPEAKER_01And But I'm guessing you probably also explain the long-term consequences. Because nobody's just gonna go and floss. It's it's an inconvenience, right? Fluss. It's annoying, it's kind of a lot of people. You know, people would say wear sunblock, and I said, no, I'm dark skinned, I don't need sunblock. You know, I watched a YouTube video like now in my, you know, about a few years ago, and then did I realize the importance because I understood the consequences.
SPEAKER_06Black don't crack, yes, but uh put it in the sun, yields.
SPEAKER_01And it's gonna age, right? Even though it doesn't, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Exactly.
SPEAKER_02So it's a aquaflosing. What do you feel about that?
SPEAKER_06Oh no, I you so when it comes to dental age. It's aquaflossing. It's a water flosser.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_06So you put water, it comes in, it's like a it looks like an electric toothbrush. And it has a little canister at the back, and you can put water in there, and it literally just sprays onto your teeth and cleans out the bacteria and the plaque. And I mean, there's some cool ones now where it has a little brush at the end. And I mean, I'm on a very long braces journey, and my aquiflos is like my best friend. And I just put I put a bit of mouthwash in there as well. So when I'm flossing, flossing my teeth, I start with my aquiflosser and then I do the gruelling actual interdental brushing, which is like a few.
SPEAKER_02So you don't think yeah, so you don't think it's like a substitute. It's it's an orphan.
SPEAKER_06It's uh it's uh it's yeah, no, it doesn't substitute floss. You actually need that mechanical removal of that plock, because plock is sticky. So you need to make sure that it's removed properly.
SPEAKER_02And the aquiflos, it's it's like water for the physical removable.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so either a floss, either using uh um actual floss or interdental brushes. Those work really well. So that's where I am now because I'm not trying to get any more cavities. But the reason I had my feeling done the other day was not because I had a cavity, because you know I did something bad, but it was the feelings that I had when I was younger, and the one just broke and chipped off, and it just caused there was a lot happening under there, under my amalgam. And yeah, it just it broke my heart because I even when I had to tell my boss, and I was like, Doc, I think I've got a cavity.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. She was like, Okay. You're fired.
SPEAKER_06And then she's just like, Okay, go, let's go. Go into the room, and she's just like, Oh, yes, you do. So obviously, now there's the whole journey of the oral hygiene, the oral hygienist has a cavity. Now the orthodontist has to be brought in to take off the wire, and then the day after you have to get it.
SPEAKER_01So it was just the process, eh?
SPEAKER_02And then you just too, then it was hectic and the author was getting involved.
SPEAKER_01Look at you guys all shaming one another on camera in a public bad. But I mean, getting cavity is not a bad thing, guys. It happens even to the best of us, right?
SPEAKER_06But you don't expect that from someone who is trying to help you.
SPEAKER_01But it also tells me that you're not practicing what you preach. Because you should be seeing human every six months. No, but I'm human. No, but it's haven't you been going for your six-monthly checkup?
SPEAKER_06I do, I do at practice, I do.
SPEAKER_01That's how you should probably caught it. Is it assuming? Yeah. Is that really how you caught it? Or you just felt something.
SPEAKER_06No, but I also just I'm very aware of what's happening in my mouth. And then when I felt this, it was obviously something that had been there for a while and it was obviously under an amalgam. So once that amalgam came off, it was like, okay.
SPEAKER_02But I'm my own hygienist. Why? Stand there. Shows and doesn't shows.
SPEAKER_06Strange enough, I'm my own hygienist as well. I can do it as well. Really? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
unknownAh gosh.
SPEAKER_02I like to feel. I like to feel. It's also therapeutic for me. When I used to do hygiene a while ago, like there's like that big calculus chunk that's parked in there.
SPEAKER_04Oh no, why do you why do you have calculus? Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. That's why I understood the previous guest loving that app because it is therapeutic. There's also this app where you can wash a car. Oh, yeah. You always see the advertising. I watch videos where privileged people. I used to actually wash cars.
SPEAKER_06I think I used to. But I I watch videos where like a car's being like cleaned in an interior and they're like, they go through and they're just there's a guy in London. I don't know why that gives me so much satisfaction. And I think it's the same when I'm doing my cleanings because it's it's one of those like, oh, well, like once it's done, because I'll take a photo when when I start with the patient, and then I'll take a photo at the end. And like sometimes I'll say to them, okay, feel with your tongue first, and be like, Where's where are my teeth? I'm like, that was not your that was not your tooth.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's the worst. When they're things like, oh, you're up your my teeth isn't must be.
SPEAKER_06And then they see it and they're just like, what do you mean? Because I mean, I've had patients who've come in and they've they've had black teeth. I mean, the black line stains from you know, the type of bacteria that's in the mouth. And someone just thinks, oh my gosh, I'll never be able to smile or show my mouth to anyone or open my mouth in public. And those are the people who are, they'll come in and they'll speak like this, or they'll be shy. And, you know, that's that's the first, first case, case where I'm just like, you know what? I need to get you to get out of this shell that you're in and just open you up to the world. Let's start with your mouth.
SPEAKER_01Is that your most like therapeutic? Is that the procedure that puts you in the zone? Like when you just my scalings, oh yeah, yes. I can imagine that.
SPEAKER_06I think, and for me, the end result when the patient sees like the after. I think for me that is it I give it it gives me so much satisfaction because I think most of most time most of the times patients come in and these, there's just no hope. Like they're just like, you know what, I've been to other people, I went to a dentist, I went to this hygienist, I went to and I did this treatment, and it wasn't nice, or I had a bad experience, and already I'm under pressure to perform and make sure that this person doesn't walk out and put me in that same bracket of I had a terrible experience with this dental professional.
SPEAKER_01Do you do you have a procedure which you like or would rather, if you didn't have to do it, you'd rather skip it? Like I know Yak hates endog, right? When it comes to dentistry. What what it do you have one of those? Or is everything just?
SPEAKER_06I don't think so. I think for me it's uh probably I know it's strange because some people no, I don't do replening because that's for dentists. But for me, I think it's oh yeah, no, replening, yeah, I don't mind replening because that for me in the end, the mouth is just oh, looking amazing, you know.
SPEAKER_02The Yeah, after the bleeding. It's six to eight months.
SPEAKER_06It feels lighter. Like occasions that come and they say it feels lighter when I've done a repleness. So yeah, but replening I like. I think for me it's it's teeth whitening.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_06Um as much as look, it's amazing and then you know the results look great after 48 hours. I don't I don't like the whitening that gives you that instant result and that instant sensitivity that most people feel.
SPEAKER_01Um it's not about it being a difficult procedure, you're just you're just not a fan of the expectations of it.
SPEAKER_06It doesn't give me as much satisfaction as healing someone.
SPEAKER_01Isn't that what people are coming for nowadays?
SPEAKER_06It's it's aesthetic. But before we get to aesthetic, let's let's start at the at the fundamentals, at the at the at the root of everything. Pun not intended.
SPEAKER_02And have you what do you guys use? Like ultrasonic? Yes. Have you tried the those airflow devices?
SPEAKER_06We have. We have actually like looking into like investing into a good one. Um and I mean I've done pretty much everything. I've I've used all the devices, and now it's just a point, like I'm at a point where I just have to decide what do we get now?
SPEAKER_01You guys are talking about scalars now.
SPEAKER_02Yes, with the air polishing. Yeah, so the latest one is uh it's like an airflow device. It's basically like aluminium oxide um particles that spread at high pressure, so it basically like sandblasts.
SPEAKER_06Yes.
SPEAKER_02Where do the particles go?
SPEAKER_01Get suctioned out. Do patients come and ask you about micro microplastics and all sorts of things? Not not yet. And like oil pulling.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Let's talk about it. Are the patients are the patients like much more educated these days? They are. I've had patients who've come and then they're misinformed at the same time.
SPEAKER_06You know, TikTok.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_06I love TikTok, but I hate it at the same time. And I actually don't I don't, I don't have like the TikTok that I have is probably the work page. And I don't like being on it because there's so much misinformation. And it's just like any so I think social media in general, if you think about it, because whatever's being put out there, if someone has a title in front of it and then they say, Hi, I am an expert in this, people are, there are people who are going to believe every single word that is being said without even going to check what credentials you actually have. So, I mean, I've seen some horror stories where people are getting braces and they buy them off Timu or like some app, and then they just there are doctors or dentists who are placing it on the teeth.
SPEAKER_01Fake braces also. Isn't that a thing now?
SPEAKER_06As if this is fun.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But do patients come and say I want the braces?
SPEAKER_06No, most patients come in wanting um the tattoos. No, the wires, the wires, slimming wires.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay, for function to actually slim them. Yes. Because I heard I was shocked to hear that people actually want to put fake braces on.
SPEAKER_06Oh no, there are some people who want that as well. And and I tell them, this is not, this is not for my aesthetics.
SPEAKER_02Do you guys do IMF if someone requests it?
SPEAKER_06No.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_06I will send you to a maxello facial set.
SPEAKER_02Come on, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Don't date the guests.
SPEAKER_06The max pack will.
SPEAKER_01She gives us an answer that I don't want to put out. I'm glad that's the right answer. Well done.
SPEAKER_06I'm going to send all my patients to you, the ones that want to do IMF. And what are fissure sealants? So a sealant is um, simply put, our teeth have little pits in them and like little rivers. It looks like a river on the back teeth. And a fissure sealant goes and covers that little fissure where plaque and bacteria probably could get stuck. And most patients have very deep fissures. So you can imagine a valley, and the valley is quite deep, and you your brush doesn't get into that area. So what we do is normally with kids who are young, at about age of seven, six, seven. Six, six. Six seven, yeah. Yeah. Um we We're making that a shortcut. Yeah. So you clean out the area, the tooth, and you place a tooth-colored like filling. But it's a filling that is a lot you're allowed to do it as a hygienist because it's a preventative treatment. So um it actually prevents the children from getting cavities.
SPEAKER_02And is it like removable? What happens later on in life?
SPEAKER_06It's not removable. It actually, I mean, I've had patients who've had fissure sealants for more than five, six years. I mean, when I did their sealants, and if it does come off, you just come back in and we we do it again for you. It's not, there's no injection, there's no pain at all, which is why um a lot of schools have projects where they do fissure sealants for children. And you'll find that a lot of primary schools, like if we do community service projects, we do fissure sealants. And I mean, I think that's one thing I wished that I used to, because I I used to be on a it's a it's a mobile dental truck. And the company hired me to be, before I, before I worked at the practice that I'm at now, they hired me to be a consultant for them and do cleanings on uh impoverished communities. So I would go to a place you've never even heard of, names that I can probably not even remember. Yeah. And I do cleanings on, let's say, the staff at a factory, for example. Okay. People who've never had dental treatment done. And I give them oral hygiene instructions and get their teeth cleaned. And that's probably the first time in like 50, 60 years of their lives that they've actually gotten dental treatment. And I think fidic sealants is one procedure where I wish every child had the opportunity. And I mean, if you think about it, if people didn't need if people got figealants, they wouldn't actually need to get fillings. Yes, exactly, because it's it's preventative. It's fillings are avoidable. Everything is avoidable. I mean, when I was young, I never had fijo sealants. My dentist gave me amalgams. Now my mouth is all silver, and now I've got braces too, that's even more silver. So I feel like there's just there's so much that can be done at an early age to get children, adults, the elderly, like into in in such a good space with their mouths.
SPEAKER_01And it's not like you're criticizing your dentist. No, not at all. Healthcare now is trending towards preventative, right? Yes, and then curative.
SPEAKER_06Yes. I never went to hygienist when I was child when I was young. The first place I went to was a dentist. Yeah. So it's it's understandable. It's only when I was studying or before I studied, that's when I heard about oral hygiene. Because I think if I'd heard about it when I was younger, I could have ventured into that. And I think another reason why I possibly went into this into this career was oral hygiene gives you an opportunity to speak to your patients and communicate with them and get to the cause of why they have dental problems. And cry with them. Yeah. And I I will cry with you. If you need me to shed a tear and bring up a box of tissues, I'm the one, you know? If you need to cry for the week, let's do it together.
SPEAKER_01It's like you like to connect with your patients. That's why you love it.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, that's that's that's my I think, yeah. That's my that's my goal.
SPEAKER_02Imagine if you just hated people.
SPEAKER_06Oh no.
SPEAKER_02Connecting. And I've seen people I think you and especially in your profession, it's probably very hard for people that are introverts and don't like people. And I've seen anything in your profession. Yeah. Maybe. You're just gonna be pushed through.
SPEAKER_01But the thing is you're just gonna be miserable, right?
SPEAKER_06Exactly. And a lot of people are. And I mean, I've seen hygienists who are miserable. And you know when you you you're in the career and you just people are, yes, some of some people make it. And then there's some people who are struggling and trying to find their footing. I think I was blessed to find my footing at an early like an early start in my career. And I think it was also because I'm very vocal. I speak up, I've never been shy, and I've always cared about people. Like I remember the the one way I'm so I'm I'm currently being chair for a while for of Ohasa.
SPEAKER_01And what's Oh I mean, yeah.
SPEAKER_06So our Ohasa is the Oral Hygiene Association of South Africa. So I've been Houteng chair since my first year.
SPEAKER_00That's cool.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so since my first year of being a hygienist. And that for me was when I it it clicked, and I was like, I can do anything. If I can be a chair for an organization with people who have been in the profession for longer than I've been alive, then I'm on the right path. Because I the the previous president, she saw me at um an event that was hosted where we were doing screenings for patients, and I think it was a Colgate um screening day, and I was the only hygienist who went. And a lot of people were invited. And thankfully that day, my boss was just a Dr. Harry Potter that was just like, you know what, Cox, go, go to the screening. I mean, if you if it's something that you want to do, go for it, take the day off. And that was me in my first year of being in the profession. And she saw me at this um screening day, and like I think she saw my passion for something I didn't even know, but I like something in me just told me that like I need to be, I need to be with the people. I need to look after people's mouths. I need to heal people, and I don't have to be a doctor to do it. And she, I think she felt that passion, and then she put my name forward to become chairperson.
SPEAKER_05And I was like, I don't want what is this? I don't even know what to do. Like, what do I talk about?
SPEAKER_06Like, do people are gonna be looking at me? And then I realized, yes, people will be looking at you. Yes, 10 years down the line, you'll be hosting webinars, you'll be internationally, speaking internationally, and you'll be traveling to countries that you are scared you might not even get out of because you know you're at it, you know, it like it's open. This this career has opened up so much for me, more than I ever would have anticipated or even. Where are the international places? So so far I've only been two or three places. I went to that's a lot, yeah. So uh Dubai was my first one. That was like the best one. So I was I'm also a wadlaw recently.
SPEAKER_02That's why you're afraid you couldn't get out.
SPEAKER_06No, no, no. That's no no, Dubai, I would have stayed.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow, what the bombs holding.
SPEAKER_06No, no, no. This is before. This is before. So um I I'm I'm also a uh now my mind's just gone blank, but I do a lot of talks for iTO ITOP, which is individually trained oral prophylaxis. So it's a company that um we we individualize the way you should be brushing or looking after your oral health. And then you go around and you go to different countries and like schools and you teach people how to do the brushing and the flossing the correct way. And the company then hired me, and then I went to Dubai to do one of the like this was the the the introductory course. Um and yeah, that's how I got into into ITOP, and then that took me to Dubai. Then the second place, that was scary. I went to Nigeria um three years ago, I think it was three years ago, um, and Egypt.
SPEAKER_01Wow. So I guess and your mom would never have known that this is gonna take you.
SPEAKER_06So I was just like, no, I'm not gonna be a good idea.
SPEAKER_02No, your dentist should be stuck in this chair. Exactly. I would have traveled.
SPEAKER_06I would have had to extract someone's tooth that week. No. So I think this also it like this career just there's so much more to it. And I think if you haven't, if you haven't experienced some of the the things that I have, you might not even see the good in this profession because a lot of times people are just like, I'm not earning enough from my career. But what is enough? Yeah, you know, but people are- What is earning?
SPEAKER_01Because it can be financial or otherwise.
SPEAKER_06Yes, yes. And it's it there's so much to it. Earning is not just money. It's there's you you can you gain so much from people. And I think I gain so much from people. So if you don't have a love and a passion for it, a patient that walks in looking angry, you're gonna match that energy and you're just gonna be like, let's just get this over and done with. And you can see that in with some people who treat patients and they don't have a passion or a love for it, because the one thing they'll do is complain about everything. They'll come, they'll find the negative, which is like any job. With any job, you you will find a negative whatever's negative, you'll sit and you'll like yeah, you'll just dig into it and figure out and like it, it's just you never see the positive and the bright side of it. And I think I I'm lucky, I'm so fortunate to have actually seen the bright side of oral hygiene. And it's the amount of work that I've put in that got me into this position and putting myself out there as well.
SPEAKER_01So are you are you finding that you now enjoy the the Ohasa stuff and everything after being reluctant?
SPEAKER_06I do. You know the thing is, it it was a tricky, it was a tricky one because there are politics in all these things.
SPEAKER_01Oral hygienists say politics too.
SPEAKER_06So much drama. Oh my goodness. Yeah, but I mean there's politics everywhere. Exactly. Um but I mean that just shows that there's passion. People love this passion for what you're doing. People are not just like uh, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's not just a side thing.
SPEAKER_06No. And you'll see a lot of hygienists are very like you you say something wrong about their profession that we are now. You gotta be careful now. Now it was. Yes, exactly, because now there's this group. Oh my gosh, they go. So I'm just joking.
SPEAKER_01But what I can tell you is that you're representing the profession very well. Like I want to be an oral hygiene.
SPEAKER_06And I really hope so. Like, I really, really hope so. Because I mean, there are some people who could have been in the profession and then they decided, no, I'm gonna go off and move into another into another career. And you know what?
SPEAKER_02A lot of people do that. Like they start off with oral hygiene and then they will be able to do that. I think there are a few people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Can it open up doors for you in like other aspects, if non-clinical and other countries? Pretty much.
SPEAKER_06It has. I mean, but look at how my trajectory has gone from just cleaning teeth to being a speaker and you know, guiding people on how to look after themselves and how to empower the people that they treat on a daily basis. And it's it's yeah, like Ohasa for me, I think, opened up a lot of a lot of doors. I didn't see it in the beginning. I was just anxious. And I never saw myself as someone who has to host like hosting events and standing in front of people and like having all eyes on you. Like, you know, you think, yes, I I love this, but there's so much anxiety that goes into it. Like before I host a seminar or anything like that, like I am anxious because I'm thinking, okay, is this good, is this done? Was this is it if this goes wrong, what am I gonna do? Will I be so there's a lot that goes into it, but that's also an element of caring about what you're doing.
SPEAKER_01If you don't get to enjoy the event, right? I do, do you?
SPEAKER_06I do, I do. Even with being on- Yes, I seem a little stressed. But I mean, like I I try and take in as much as possible because if you ever just go to these things and just sit in the audience, it's so much nicer.
SPEAKER_01Just to be somebody that's an attendee.
SPEAKER_06I think I probably need to do that with stress.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Because I mean I also get involved in a couple of things like this. Yes, you do. And you don't end up enjoying oh, I'm saying not you. I don't end up enjoying it. Like so every now and then it's nice to just like let your hair down. Yeah. Literally or figuratively in my case.
SPEAKER_02And then just or if you have to, or if you have to speak, be the speaker at like the beginning of the day. Yeah, but it still doesn't matter. And then you're done with it, then you can chill and pick another.
SPEAKER_06But now that's why I'm at a point where I I I I feel like I've done so much for for like Ohasa. Because I mean, I started what what year was it? 2021 no, not 2021.
SPEAKER_01Who was the person that saw you? And it was it's Stella, Stella.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So do you have uh props to her? Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Props to Stella Lampracht and I mean the other person who also took me under her wing was Angelique Coney.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_06I mean, sure. I yeah, uh those those two people really got me to where I am in in the profession now. And I I used to watch them when I realized, you know what, I can do this. I mean, there's enough, there's enough support to get me to do whatever's needed. And by at that time we had committees, so I was now chair of eight people. As a 23, 24-year-old, which was very daunting, I'm not gonna lie, because you're just like, what do I know? Do I know enough to actually do this? But then you put that that doubt aside and you just get the work done. And I think that for me is the most important thing. Like I've I see a very I have a very positive outlook on on things that most people would not find positive. And I think that's brought me to where I am today.
SPEAKER_01Kudos to you. I mean, obviously it was your mom's influence, but also kudos to Angelique and Stella for inspiring and showing you that it can be done and getting letting you do it, right? Yeah. Do you guys do ComSurf?
SPEAKER_06Not in oral hygiene. Okay. So you go straight into work.
SPEAKER_01How does is how does that happen? Like, is it not scary?
SPEAKER_06Do you So as I said, my trajectory has never been normal. Yeah. So when I was studying in my final year, um we had to do a project where you go and you shadow a dentist. And I decided I'm gonna shadow an orthodontist. Because what I want to study, I want to be in in an ortho. Because at the time, I really loved the concept of ortho, like the idea of it. It just seemed so clean and just no blood, and it was just, you know, put the elastics on and the wire on. And and then so while I was studying my my final year, I went and I went to Dr. Chinara, he's in uh North Cliff. And I did I I shadowed him and I went on the weekends to shadow him as well. And while I was shadowing him, I think it was two weeks that I went there. Um he says to me, What do you want to do once you're once you actually in the profession? Or what are you gonna are you gonna going to come into dentistry, general, orthodontics, period? Um, what do you want to do? And I was like, you know what, I don't mind author after seeing your practice because but his practice was hectic. I mean, they were seeing, I mean, my first day they were seeing like a hundred and thirty something patients a day with six hygienists every day. And then I saw his success and I was like, this guy's amazing. Like, how do people trust youth this much with their children, with their mouths? And even adults used to come in there as well. And I just thought this was amazing. Like, this this guy's this guy's good. Like, because I used to watch the way he used to like just speak to his patients as well, and he'd remember every detail about his patients. He'd be like, hey, Mr. Van Rensberg, how are your three kids? You know, like how's Johan? And from there, I was like, this is amazing. And I think I even, even in my, like that project that I did, like I I think I got good mouse because I was so inspired by the way he worked and the way he just interacted with his patients, and he was such a he's such a nice guy. And then when I was done with it, he's like, would you want to work here and continue shadowing me all on the Saturdays when you are not at university until you get a job. But actually come and work for me once you're done. And I was like, okay. So that's where that's how I got my job.
SPEAKER_04Cool, cool.
SPEAKER_06From just shadowing someone, and I think I made an impression and he like like a good enough impression where he's just like, you know what, come in.
SPEAKER_01Not a literal dental dental impression, but uh, yeah, yeah. I guess the project, they know what they're doing with that project also.
SPEAKER_06And it wasn't and it wasn't also, it wasn't just for you to get a job at that place. It was also just find a career, see what they do, and see if that is something that you would possibly want to do in your life yourself.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I'm sure if Dr. Chinara didn't like it, wouldn't I ask you?
SPEAKER_06And I think, yeah, because I think because I was very like vocal. The only downside with me working, because I was in the only there, I was only there for a few months once I was done studying. The downside is that I want to talk to my patients. Like author is very fast.
SPEAKER_02It's like Yeah, with author, you gotta just be like churn numbers.
SPEAKER_06Yes, exactly. It's one after the other. And I'm the type of person I will sit down. I mean, you guys have seen, I need to build a rapport with my patient. And the the rapport with author gets built with the orthodontist, not with the hygienist. The hygienist is the one that does the final adjustments of whatever's being done. And I knew that like I worked and I just my heart wasn't in it because I wasn't able to connect with my patients. It was just like in and out. Mr., Mrs. the child comes in and goes out. And it was for me that just it was, it was very impersonal. Not to say that authors, there's people who love author, they don't want that interaction with the patient. And I knew that it wasn't for me. And I decided, you know what, let's let's continue. So then I got hired on the dental truck that goes around South Africa, and I was doing the oral hygiene with those, with those.
SPEAKER_04You drove.
SPEAKER_06No, no, I had a driver. Yeah, I I drove the truck once. I had my life.
SPEAKER_01I know those trucks.
SPEAKER_06I would have yeah, and it was such a cute. Yes, and the one that I was on, it's called it was called Square Carrot. I don't know if they're still around. Um, they had an optometry unit inside it as well. Okay. So then the our sponsor at the time was Garmin, which was really cool. Okay.
SPEAKER_01It doesn't get lost.
SPEAKER_06Yes, exactly. Like that was the smartest sponsor they could have gotten. I wish they'd given me a GPS myself.
SPEAKER_01That's what I was saying.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Wrapped up in the yeah, okay. You had a mobile dental unit slash ophthalmology.
SPEAKER_06So that was that was that was fun for me. And then the one day I get a call and it's Dr. Harrison. She's like, hi, um, I hear you still looking to get into a profession. What do you want to do? Um, do you want to come for an interview? That's cool.
SPEAKER_01I mean, she heard of you.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so one of my friends had said, okay, Kalki is on a mobile dental unit. Um, she's just left author and she's still like trying to figure out what just a truck driver, yeah. Yes, a truck driver cleaning people's teeth. And um, yeah, then she's like, okay, come for an interview. And she's like, when can you come in? I'm like, two o'clock today. Like, let's get this going. Well, the one thing I didn't do was ask her what she does.
SPEAKER_01Really? Okay.
SPEAKER_06So I get into the, I go to Waterfall, get to the practice, and um, she's like, hi, I just opened up a practice a month ago, and um, I need a hygienist. And I'm like, great, okay. And she asked me all these questions, like at the going through the interview, it was really like very chill, very relaxed. We were actually laughing about it the other day because it it was actually my 11-year anniversary two days ago. So yeah, I've been at that practice for 11 years. And uh she was like, So what do you know what a prostodontist does? And I said, No. And I said to her, But I'm willing to learn.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_06Whatever you tell me, I will absorb and I will do my own research as well. But I will come in with the oral hygiene aspect of it. I'm new in this, so it'll be you'll be taking a chance with me.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_06Um, and she was just like, look, let's start out, put you on trial for a few months, and those months have now turned into 11 years.
SPEAKER_02Wait, is her husband a processorist at all, though?
SPEAKER_06No, he's an endocrinologist.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's very cool. That's a cool interview. You were honest. Yeah. You're open. She liked it, she liked what she saw, and it worked out, clearly.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. And I mean, it was very difficult in the beginning because the practice was new.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_06So, I mean, she'd seen a few of those pay like a few patients starting out. I mean, you you can imagine a new place in Waterfall. The place has just been built. Waterfall was still developing, essential wasn't there. All those buildings that you waterfall estate was still being built, like we're now looking at the city. Outside my window, I've never seen, like there was hardly anything when we were there. And to see where it was it was at the time and how it's grown has been so beautiful to us.
SPEAKER_01Tells me something that one might forget. It's like oral hygienists tend to like specialize almost in whatever they do, right?
SPEAKER_06Which is quite quite interesting. Yeah, I mean yes, and and I mean in the one where you don't really specialize, I would say, is general dentistry. Right. Where on the mobile dental unit, because now you are free to just whatever the patient needs, you can do what if as long as it's within your scope of practice, you'll need to do. And it it it was just it was very empowering to be on that. And even when I was while I was working at Waterfall, it was I was on the unit for a short while because I mean I think the practice got very busy. So I I haven't been on it for quite a while. So I don't know who's actually on that unit. I actually at some point wanted to buy it because I was like, this is fun. Like I loved the traveling, I loved just not being in one place. I loved like trying to see, okay, who am I going to treat today? Like what am I going to do?
SPEAKER_02What's the regulation surrounding that, like in private practice? Like, say if I want to call you and be like, come to my house and do a cleaning with your truck.
SPEAKER_06You can. You can do it. As long as you're an independent practitioner and you've got your and like you are a legitimate.
SPEAKER_01I thought that's where Yak was going. I mean, can you guys open your own practice?
SPEAKER_06Yes, yes. So I can open up my practice and employ hygienists, employ dentists. Um I'm thinking of buying Yak's practice at one point, you know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it's You're welcome. I'll work for you.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02So you go overseas. Yak likes his degree. I can tell.
SPEAKER_07You can. Wants to work for you. I want to not work for you. You can just chill. I'll do all the work. Do you guys like dentists? I do. I like people. It's a safe space. Nobody's watching.
SPEAKER_02There's no real dentist in the whole source. Nobody's watching. Tricking me into this question.
SPEAKER_06Do you know the tricky part is as an oral hygienist, our whole role is to stop patients from seeing a dentist. Yeah. If you were if I were to put it light, like preventative. Yes, exactly. If your patient has good oral hygiene, why would they ever need a filling? Why would they ever need a root canal, an extraction? Like they won't need treatment except their cleanings and whitening and yeah, fissure sealants. I mean, I I look at patients and yes, I I send my patients just for a checkup to see the dentist. And the dentist will most of the time not find a thing because the person's oral hygiene is in such a good state. So I don't mind dentists because I work, I work, I work well with people.
SPEAKER_01But clearly you also love the dentist or the the clinician you work with. It's been there 11 years, right?
SPEAKER_06Well, they've there've been various people who've come into the practice and they've all been lovely. Like I think still to this day I can still send them a message and be like, hey, how are you doing? Is everything good? I think there's been four dentists. With dentists, I think a lot of them, they grow, they get kids, they get married, or they they want to move to another country. So there's always growth. And not to say that I'm not growing, I feel like I've grown in the field. Um, and I also have I have a lot of loyalty to my patients. Um at some point I was like, you know what, maybe I should like, because in the beginning when the practice wasn't like obviously booming like how it is now, I thought to myself, you know what, maybe I should study dentistry. And like I used to speak to my friends, and all my friends are my patients. You you're not if you're not my patient, you're not. Oh, if you're not my friend, you're not my patient. Like it's just it doesn't work. You cannot go out there and embarrass, embarrass me like with bad oral hygiene. And people know that we know each other. So my friends are all my patients. And at some point, like we're just sitting and having lunch with one of my friends, and they were just like, and I said to my branching off into like another career. Um and they were like, don't you dare do that. And I was like, why? Like, I'll make so much more money, like I'll be more successful. Because like all my friends are like marketing managers and like senior, in very senior roles. Is it iris?
SPEAKER_01She must have been, she must have been awful. There's a bad influence friend. So my friends were in like should have gone away.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and then they were just like, Don't you you, there's no, there's no one else we will trust with our mild mouths. And I was like, guys, I'll find you. I know. I was like, I'll find you a really good hygienist. You thought about it, yeah? And and the the yeah, the the feedback was no. Even my patients, they're like, no.
SPEAKER_02But what would you ask those people? Obviously that's that's like a bias of.
SPEAKER_06No, because I'll leave it. Like I'll have I have normal like conversations with my patients and I'll ask them, what do you do? Like, what do you do every day? Or like what's your role in life? And they'll tell me, I'll be like, you know what, what would you do if I ever left? And they'll be like, no, you can't leave. Or some patients will say to me, before they leave, they'll say to me, Kalki, if you're not here the next time, I'm not coming back. Like that's that's literally they'll like, I'll follow you wherever you go. And it it's it's it's such a it's it's a really humbling like experience to go through and to hear someone say that, and it makes you it made me realize that, okay, maybe I'm actually not doing too bad. Like too badly in this.
SPEAKER_02So what dissuaded you? It was that.
SPEAKER_06Yes, yeah. At the end of the day, it's where will I feel the most fulfillment and like will I be happy if I go anywhere else? But if and then I thought about it and I was just like, oh my gosh, everyone in corporate is complaining. And I'm not a complain. I don't like complaining like about my career. And I was like, you know what, I think I've got it good. I'll have to just I'll have to just write up my own path.
SPEAKER_01I'm telling you, you've got it.
SPEAKER_06And yeah, I if whatever if I need to do a certain thing or yeah, I I will make it happen. I'll make it happen. I I there's nothing that I can't do.
SPEAKER_01What do you do outside of oral writing? You like making content. And I love you, I love watching your talking to my friends.
SPEAKER_02Wait, wait, wait, before you go there, I asked you earlier on, I'm not sure what you said about going overseas. Can you guys go overseas without writing a board exam and things like that?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah, you can. You can. So I think there are some countries there where you need to write board um exams. You just need to find out from those countries where you're ever investigated that?
SPEAKER_02Would you want to go over?
SPEAKER_06Some well, I've been approached to work in Dubai, like obviously after I went the the one time, and our hygiene is just so overpopulated there. And I was like, I will not find my niche will not be like as it is now in South Africa. Because I I have some friends who've worked or who are in Dubai at the moment.
SPEAKER_02And they're to write boarding.
SPEAKER_06Yes, yes. And then the ones that I met when I was doing the ITOP courses, like we were all um becoming instructors or like the ITOP instructors. And they were just like, you know what, Kalki, you've got it good in South Africa. Because sometimes they'd message me like from Dubai. They're like, Oh, how's everything going? And I'm like, Oh, I'm actually just about to see a patient. Then she'll say, You know what? Like, I there's so many of us that it's so difficult to actually like get enough clientele. And I was like, uh-mm, I'm not leaving.
SPEAKER_01South Africa is so lovely.
SPEAKER_02You can't be also. South Africa is you own the library two and fifty.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You won't get a letter of good standing.
SPEAKER_05Oh, goodness me, I think I've committed a crime now, but I'll probably like slip it under the door when I get home today.
SPEAKER_01What else do you do outside of oral hygiene cocky? Like my hobbies. Yeah. Anything? Music. Oh, like I'm a DJ on the side of the stuff.
SPEAKER_06No, I think my my model. I think I'm busy.
SPEAKER_01I thought you were a model. You are a model, did you?
SPEAKER_06No, I'm not a model. I I just have to look like that. I just have good jeans. Yeah, really good jeans. And I love fashion. So a lot of people have I've been approached too model and I said to them, I don't have time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, why not?
SPEAKER_06Don't have time. I'm busy in oral hygiene.
SPEAKER_01So do you have engagements booked and stuff like this year?
SPEAKER_06Yeah. So no, no, no. This year there's nothing as yet, but I mean, sometimes they just need like a month to tell me, and then I just have to get my visa, passport, everything ready, and it's just we go. But um, yeah, I think this this year's a bit of a a quieter year, but uh the other years it's and I I tell people I can't do anything else. I think I don't want to lose that focus. Um my focus is my patients. I mean, I work Monday to Saturday. I don't, yeah, like I will see patients on Saturdays because there are patients who can't make it during the week. They're working. And you know what? I'm just like, look, I don't really, I don't hate what I do. Come, it's fine, I'll come see you. And there are patients I know they will not miss an appointment. If they've booked that appointment six months in advance, they'll be there six months later. And the Saturdays are always fully booked. So that like even coming here today, it is like, first need to see my patients, then I'll see you guys afterwards. Yeah, yeah. I need to, I needed to get the tears out of my eyes and like, you know, get myself to work, pull myself towards myself and come in, you know. And I feel like if I did something else, yes, it would be like more income, but I'm not really focused on that. Um I love what I do, and everything else that I do is just for for the fun of it. Um like I love listening to music, I love shopping. Yeah, like I I love fashion, like I like I love the simpler, not the simpler things in life. I wouldn't call it like I'm I wouldn't say I'm bougie, but I like nice things. Um like what? Clothes. Clothes, cars, shoes. But I'm also at a point in my life where like what the things that I get, I don't know, something changed in me like maybe two years ago when I just thought to myself, I don't need to show everyone all the things, all I have. Um because I mean, I you know, you uh we we had a point in our lives where social media is now all about what do you have? Like show us what you got. And like sometimes I'll sharpen it up, like I'll show like a corner of something, and you'll know. If you know, you know. Like I that's that's my like saying. Like even when I bought, like I had a big purchase that I just did recently, and like I did a reveal of it, and then before it was revealed, I stopped the video. And yes, and I never actually announced what it was that I got. And it it was also just because at the back of my mind, yes, I know I I work hard for everything that I have, and I deserve everything that I like I have because I I I I really put in the time, the effort, the love to get it. But then I also think there are people who don't have this, and I don't want to boast and be pompous and flaunt um and just be materialistic about everything. Sometimes it's also just good to have things and enjoy them in your own space and not flaunt it to everyone. And that's why I said to you, I'm not an influencer, because influencers I feel they they're there to sell a product or show something bigger. Um, I'd say more influential because like the the things that I have, like if someone knows, they'll be like, oh, where did you get this? Or where did you get this dress? And then I'll tell you, like, I don't gatekeep. If you want to know what shoe I'm wearing, you're gonna get that Jordan at this place, you're gonna get this dress at that shop. Like, I'm that type of person, but I don't like flaunting. And when young, when I was young, I used to flaunt a lot because like I just loved it. Like I lived, I loved the night, the finer things in life.
SPEAKER_01Um and social media makes it easy and you get the lights.
SPEAKER_06Like I literally just pick up my phone and like, oh my gosh, hi guys. Can you guess what I just did today? You know, it just it's so easy to just do that.
SPEAKER_07You get trolled and things like that.
SPEAKER_06No, I think probably if I'm trolled, it's behind my back.
SPEAKER_07Okay, well, that's good.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, but I I'd I'd I'd like to think I'm a nice enough person to not get trolled by people. But people But not everyone will like you. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02We call that putting eyes. Putting eyes.
SPEAKER_06Yes, exactly. So you have to turn salt to go.
SPEAKER_07Telegram.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow, I was that's surprising. I I've I've known Yak for a long time. Yeah. So I know I can get a sense of his energy and what he's feeling and thinking. And the whole time you're speaking now, yeah, I'm thinking to myself, Yak must be thinking, how is he gonna poach such a one place for 11 years? Yeah, I know. I'm gonna do that. I'll never poach anyone.
SPEAKER_05That is so cool. Thanks.
SPEAKER_06And that that is like that is so heartwarming.
SPEAKER_02I mean, that's I feel like that's Up until you said turn salt, then I'll like it out to get you and recover water.
SPEAKER_01Turn salt. That could yeah. What else didn't we talk about that you want to talk about? If anything, I mean I I enjoyed this conversation. It's been fun and enlightening.
SPEAKER_06I don't know if you well, look, I'm not gonna lie, I haven't watched all your podcasts.
SPEAKER_01Why did you No, we watch every I've watched every episode at least twice.
SPEAKER_06So you're not a dentist anymore. For a long time. Why would you become a lawyer?
SPEAKER_01Because um I always wanted to do law when I was in high school. And then I didn't do it because it was saturated. It was a very like I didn't do research, we didn't have YouTube, all those things. And so I just did dentistry because I couldn't get into medicine. Seriously. That's why I did it.
SPEAKER_02And why did you want to get into medicine?
SPEAKER_01Because I thought you were gonna make money. Was it family influence? Not really. I mean, my dad even told me like you can go overseas and play cricket, you'll support me.
SPEAKER_06But do you have lawyers in your family?
SPEAKER_01My dad's an attorney. Okay.
SPEAKER_06Okay, so there was that influence in it as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I just thought I was good, I would be good at it. And I Yeah, but I mean, no, there was no real interest. And you see, this is the thing, right? So I've been in both professions. And the funny thing is when I was leaving dentistry and I was telling all my dental colleagues about it, they were like, oh, brilliant, you're making a great decision. Leave dentistry. Yes. But the qualified ones. Yeah. The people that had been working in dentistry is like, oh, well done. Even like I've when I used to speak to some lecturers, I know they're like, oh, well done, yeah. But the funny thing is, then the lawyers would say to me, Don't do it. Oh, don't do it. Run. Everybody thinks the grass is greener on the other side.
SPEAKER_06It's 100% and I think.
SPEAKER_01You've you've got patients who are accountants and ministers and all these things that you've mentioned. From the outside looking in, it always seems more glamorous. And that's why I say to see somebody who's actually loving what they're doing and can feel it and sense it, you're not making this up. You can't make up that energy. That's when you know you've you've succeeded. So anti-iris, that's just just know that. Coming from somebody who's been a dentist and a lawyer at like big big law firms and things like that, I can tell you it's great.
SPEAKER_02And there's that cheesy law, that cheesy uh saying that goes, you know, if you if you love what you do, you don't work a day. I hate that saying.
SPEAKER_06It's like it's very You know the thing is, um, when when I told my mom that I was gonna be on the podcast, and I told her then, why did I become a doctor? She was just like, Carl, don't lie.
SPEAKER_05She's like, you're not a doctor. Tell them in the beginning.
SPEAKER_06And I was just like, no, mama, they they it's an interview, they interview everyone. And she's just like, okay, I don't want to be, I don't want to deal with any laws.
SPEAKER_01But the funny thing is, doctor, if you look at the roots of dodo, just like the meaning. It means a master.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01In something. So I see you as a master in your craft and your art. So cool.
SPEAKER_06Thank you. Thank you. And if you were to change have you ever thought of changing from dentistry to something else?
SPEAKER_02Me. Yeah, all the time. Right now, while this thing was going on, I was thinking of this.
SPEAKER_07What would you do if you went to dentist?
SPEAKER_02A lot of other things. Mountaineering, DJ. You need to go watch my whole episode.
SPEAKER_07What episode is this now?
SPEAKER_01One. Okay. All right. He was the first guest on the show.
SPEAKER_06Really? Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_06I'm not like I don't watch podcasts. Like, I think I'm doing so much. I'm out so much.
SPEAKER_01Like I'm not sure. But you must listen. Wait, hold on. You definitely work out, right? You do.
SPEAKER_06No, it's my genes. I told you.
SPEAKER_01No way. I know it's not fair. That's unfair.
SPEAKER_06I'm supposed to be a balloon. Like, I eat a lot. I love eating. I love restaurants. I love going to places.
SPEAKER_01No, this means ages on your side. So when you start aging and your metabolism then eventually catches up. What you get. What are you going to do is you're going to start doing exercise, right? Yeah. And then you'll be like on the treadmill or whatever. Then put your airpods on and listen or watch it. That's where I consume all my part. Like today, I did a walk for the first time in a week because I was off the flu. And I was watching, I mean, I was listening to Neilai Patel interviewing the Google and Alphabet CEO. What's his name? Sunda Pichai. Sunda Pichai.
SPEAKER_02He's basically just trying to alter your entire life now to get it into one.
SPEAKER_01Get into the podcast. We've had cool people on.
SPEAKER_05I'm gonna like and subscribe and you know.
SPEAKER_01Plug us. Plug us. Yeah. Put shorts out and you repost and everything.
SPEAKER_06No, no. It was like I I really I like this. Like I'm I've never I think I've I'm always so nervous because years, was it last year or two years ago, um, I did an interview for ENCA.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And it was uh meant health health matters. Okay. And it was like a segment on oral hygiene.
SPEAKER_01You're going to a real studio?
SPEAKER_06No, they came to the practice. Oh, cool. Not cool. I have never been so nervous in my life. So I was freaking out because they were asking me questions about my profession that I've answered you guys, and I went blank. And I think that's possibly why I was also like, oh my goodness, I'm enjoying like this, it's this is happening again. Like I'm gonna be in the spotlight and I have to answer these questions. And what if I don't know what what a tooth is? Like that was literally my.
SPEAKER_02But it's about the interview. Like we're cool. It was well started.
SPEAKER_06Literally, that interview was supposed to be 15 minutes. I think they they rolled for an hour because I was so I had to stop. Like, I was nervous, and it was strange because normally I'm in front of people, audiences, I can host whatever event you want me to host. I then sat in front of this person and they were asking me about this profession, and I did not, I could not, thankfully it wasn't live. Thank the Lord for that.
SPEAKER_01I love hearing this because when I hear introverts, extroverts, because you're an extrovert, right? Okay, all right. But but leaning towards extra. Yes. Right. You get your energy from people, right? Yes. And they don't drain you as much. They don't drain you as well.
SPEAKER_06I try not to to take on their energy. Yeah. I'll try and like persuade it. If if you drain my energy, I need to go recharge. I actually don't have people um who don't have good energy around me.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_06Like I'm very specific with my friends and my circle. You can't choose your patients. No, my patients are the only exception.
SPEAKER_01But but you don't need to recharge, right? You want to you get your energy.
SPEAKER_06My recharge is sitting down in my sanctuary, which is my home, and switching on a K-drama.
SPEAKER_01Okay. And not That's Korean, right?
SPEAKER_06Yes, Korean drama. And I just just not understanding a word of what's being said, but understanding everything. And that really is, I really enjoy those. I think that's when I switch off. Like if I'm if if I were to watch anything, it would just be a K drama. If you if I'm at home doing something, I'm probably cleaning my place because I I don't like dirt. I'm probably cleaning my place, or I'm watching a K drama.
SPEAKER_02What you're watching right now.
SPEAKER_06I don't know the title. It's not an example.
SPEAKER_01Wait, what I was getting at what I was getting at was I love hearing you with your type of personality saying that you got nervous. Because people watch these things and they listen and they think it's so easy. And they'll be like, oh, why didn't you say this? Yeah, stop interrupting, or you know, you said something stupid. It's not easy.
SPEAKER_06No, I I think for me, like your your platform is big. And then I thought to myself, oh my, but just before like I think now I'm I'm calmer because I I'm I sat down and I thought, what was going on with me that day? And at that time, I think it was also the the stress of I'm gonna be on national TV. Like ENCA is not small, like everyone is gonna see this. And and I I was also just like, I think I was so in my head, like, am I gonna say the right thing to millions of people? This is going to be on their website, this is going to be on TV. It's it like I literally was freaking out, and I think I didn't realize just how much I was in my head that day. That nothing, I had prepared all the questions in advance, and nothing came out the way. So when people were just like, oh, that was such an nice interview, I had blocked it out. Trauma. It was blocked out. I had public. I couldn't remember a thing. Public speaking is crazy because the one day you can come in, hey guys, good to see you. It's been a while. Like that's how I am on my webinars and I'm like, hi guys, so good to see everyone. You know, like you bring out your personality, and then then one day it just you just close up and you don't know where this came from. And that was that was the N ENCA one. And it came out so well with so much editing, but again. But did we make you feel comfortable with nice and no, no, like I think the setting as well was like so zen when I walked in, and like I wanted to just sit and meditate. Not that I meditate.
SPEAKER_01I don't want to hear about this. It was us, right? No, no, no.
SPEAKER_06You guys are great interviewers, that's the thing. Like you you want your people to like feel like I can speak to you about anything, and you're not gonna feel judged or you're not gonna just be cut off, like you know.
SPEAKER_01Which has its its uh downsides, eh? Like we've had to some people get so comfortable that you say things that you you know you don't want out there.
SPEAKER_06So it's happened. But you've been well behaved. I'm also very careful like with what I say. Um because uh it's it's just like a digital footprint.
SPEAKER_01But also it didn't come doesn't come across as that. Like you are naturally being authentic.
SPEAKER_06Because I'm honest, yeah. I think honesty, once you're honest, like it's people can pick that up, eh? It flows. It flows out of you. You don't even have to think about it. It's not something that you have to make up. You don't have to have a script. Like when I told people I was gonna be on a podcast, they're like, What are you gonna talk about? I'm like, I don't know. And I think that was great. That was probably the it was nerve-wracking, but I was also just like, you know what? I don't have time to lie. I just tell the truth.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and we also don't plan for this. Like there's no scripted questions.
SPEAKER_01That's why when you said you didn't know what we're gonna talk about, I I made like a hand gesture. Because we also, there's most episodes nowadays. But I first thought that I used to plan and research, but then also it doesn't end up being like a real conversation if I've if I've reviewed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that makes sense. It's you've been really nice to speak to. I enjoyed it. Yeah. And thanks for coming. Thanks, guys. Yak, for the record, Yak doesn't poach people.
SPEAKER_00I just know you want to be asked.
SPEAKER_06Oh, Ashana, Ashanna's gonna be, and she said I was just like, no, you must say hi to Yash. I'm like, now I'm gonna tell you like dark. No, she was my supervisor. Yes, yes. I'm gonna doc. Ooh, there's trouble. Because my orthodontist actually also wanted to poach me. Who's your orthodontist? Dr. Nitin Desai. Yeah, yeah. So it was so funny because um one day he says, he says, um, so if you close your mouth, you're gonna work for me. I'm just like, ah then he wrote like a little note to Dr. Haribassad, that Dr. Haribasad, uh, Kalki has um officially resigned from the position and will be joining me at my practice. Dr. Haribassad called her the like called in the next day. She's like, um, I hear you're trying to push my hygienist. I love that.
SPEAKER_07That's a great story.
SPEAKER_06So, like I it it and it's so fun that people get my vibe and my energy, and like I'm not misunderstood because most of the times a lot of people are misunderstood. Like you you don't know, you don't know what the person's gonna say, or like people just not everyone has a politically correct answer for things.
SPEAKER_01But also give yourself more credit. I mean, some people are just not nice to work with. People want to work with you for a long time. So thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_04Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's been lovely. Thank you for coming.
SPEAKER_05Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02Compare that $2.50 in case you have to leave the college.
SPEAKER_05And then I'm gonna come work here, like part-time and buy your practice. Or actually, I'm gonna buy your practice one day.