#26: Getting Grants to Write Your Academic Book with Dr. Brittany Fox-Williams

In today’s episode, Jane talks to Dr. Brittany Fox-Williams, an alum of the Elevate (now known as Book Brilliance) coaching program. Dr. Fox-Williams is an Assistant Professor of Sociology at Lehman College, City University of New York. She is also part of the Sociology Doctoral Faculty at the Graduate Center at City University of New York. Her forthcoming book examines the role of trust in student-educator relationships, the salience of trust for student outcomes, and racial differences in trust among youth. 

Tune in to hear: 

• How Brittany used the coaching in Book Brilliance to “hack” academia and figure out her role as a woman of color.
  
  
• The curriculum Brittany used to read strategically and start writing sooner. 
  
  
• Why Brittany joined at the end of her third year on the tenure track, and how that decision aligned with her strategic goals. 
  
  
• Brittany’s advice for applying for grants (as one of three Book Brilliance alums who secured fellowships at the Russell Sage Foundation).

💎Book Brilliance is open for summer enrollment! To learn more about the program and apply to join, click here: rightprose.co/book-brilliance/

 ✉️ Want even MORE bookish advice, right in your inbox? Sign up for Shelf Help, the newsletter with actionable tips for scholarly writers. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello, hello. I hope you're all doing well today. We have another special episode of Academic Book Writing Simplified, where I interview an alum of the Elevate program, which is now known as Book Brilliance. Dr. Brittany Fox Williams is an assistant professor of sociology at Lehman College, which is part of the City University of New York. She's also a member of the sociology doctoral faculty at the CUNY Graduate Center. She joined Elevate about two years ago to work on her forthcoming book, which looks at racial inequality among youth in American education. She focuses in her book, she focuses on the New York public school system, the New York City public school system, and interactions between students and authority figures. But I'll let her tell you more about that in the interview. During our conversation, we talk about her time in the program, what she learned, and how she continues to use what she learned in the program even now. And I want you to listen until the end because she shares some really excellent tips about how to seek funding for professional development. Dr. Brittany Fox Williams is a grant expert. She is very good at securing grant money. And she gives you some tips at the end for how to think about funding. So I really hope you enjoy this conversation and I will let you get right to listening. Welcome to Academic Book Writing Simplified. I'm your host, Jane Joanne Jones, a writing coach and developmental editor who's here to give you some tough love about the way you write. This podcast is for women and non-binary scholars in academia who are writing academic books, but feel as if the process is a little or a lot like a mystery. If you're ready to trade your confusion and frustration for ease, clarity, and purpose, you're in the right place. Let's head into today's episode. Dr. Brittany Fox Williams, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Jane.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

I am excited to have you because I can't wait to talk to you about your time in Elevate and now known as Book Brilliance, of course, for anyone listening so there's no confusion. But we are going to talk today about your time in the program, also what your research is about, what your book is about. And, you know, how you experience your time and what you're doing now. None of you are an alum of the program.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

So first, just tell us a little bit about your book. Yeah, thank you so much. So my book uh looks at race and trust in urban schools. Um, I use New York City as a case study. Um, and it's definitely a mixed methods book. So I use some survey and administrative data from New York City public schools, and I find that black students uh report the lowest levels of trust in their educators. And then for me, it wasn't necessarily surprising to find that result as someone who studies racial inequality in education, but I thought it was really important to understand Black students' perspectives on trust, what trust means to them, why it matters through their educational outcomes, um, and what they think are strategies for improving their trust. So I went into New York City schools, I interviewed high school students across four schools in the city. And through Elevate, I was really able to turn that project into something legible, into a book, and to come up with an argument um that I'm hoping that readers will appreciate.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Well, tell us a little bit about what made you decide to join Elevate originally. Sure. Joined about a year and a half ago.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

So I was in the June 2023 cohort. So almost two years ago. Oh, okay. Yeah, that time went by really quickly. And actually, Jane, I learned about you and your work through um a mutual friend who had worked with you in the past and I had been stalking your website for a really long time and just trying to figure out ways to work with you. Um, and then I saw that Elevate was actually a program or opportunity that I could potentially kind of use to work with you. And so at that stage, I wasn't quite ready to work on my book, but it was just something that I kept in the back of my mind. Um, but when I felt like it was time for me to like really buckle down and work on the book, I applied for some grant money to uh participate in Elevate. And I think at that time when I I enrolled in Elevate, I had just drafted a book proposal using from some examples from friends, um, but really hadn't exactly figured out what my argument was and still didn't entirely understand the roadmap of writing a book. It requires such a mind shift kind of approach to writing. It's a very different style of writing, um, something that you're not necessarily taught in graduate school. It requires a lot of project management. And for me as someone who like appreciates project management, I really like the structure of Elevate. So that's what encouraged me to participate. Yes, you are you are excellent at project management. You're like a plus plus. It really is what keeps me going. I'm very task oriented, and I just felt like there was a lot of alignment between me and the Elevate program in that way.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Yes, yes. We are we're very into task management and project management in the program. I know you did a lot of the tracking exercises, like the time audits and all of that, and you were right in there. Like I did my audit.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

So when you talk about, I want to ask about your experience in the program, but you mentioned something about like the mindset shift you have to have to go from writing dissertation and also articles, I guess, into writing a book. So can you tell me a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 5:51

For me, the first thing was seeing myself as an expert. I think in graduate school, like you learn how to write a dissertation, you learn how to review the literature and kind of like regurgitate a bit, share some of your own findings, but like in some ways it doesn't entirely feel like you have ownership over the project. Like there are a lot of folks who kind of have their hands in your project and kind of giving you approval to move forward. I feel like with the book, it's a very different type of approach. Like you are very much in charge of your projects. You have to keep the project moving forward. There's no one looking over your shoulder to make sure that you get it written. You're working on a very short time frame when you're on the tenure track. And at the same time, you want to put something out there in the world that people are going to appreciate and people are going to read it. And like you want that to be um viewed, you want the book to be viewed favorably by the folks that you want to read your book. And you also don't want to write a book that has a whole lot of jargon in it. And so all of that kind of wrapped up kind of required, I think requires book writers to think a new way about being a writer and being a scholar and writing for a more general audience. Um and that's not necessarily something that I learned in graduate school. I know a lot of people don't learn that. And I felt like through Elevate, I was able to kind of start to make that shift.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Okay. And what did you, what do you think happened in Elevate, like with the curriculum and the coaching and the feedback that helped you make that shift?

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Yeah. So I think the coaching was actually a really helpful piece in that. I mean, I won't the coaching wasn't necessarily therapy, but in some ways I saw it as academic therapy because it kind of forced you to recognize that you're an expert. It also forced you to understand that as like a woman scholar or a non-binary scholar, especially someone who takes care of people, I have a child, that, you know, it's not all you. You don't, you're not the one who, you know, is responsible for how academia is set up. Um, but you still have to learn how to operate successfully in the system. And so I thought the coaching was really helpful in me being able to see that and understand like how I could kind of hack the system and work through it. I like that.

unknown 7:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Hack the system.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

I'm gonna write that down.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Jane, I'm making this stuff up as I go.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

All right, so tell me about when you were in the program, like you talked about the coaching. So what was your experience in terms of say the curriculum? You mentioned the project management curriculum already. Yeah. You really dialed in on. And how about the other curriculum, for instance, like the book overview, instruction, the elevate assets, and then how we went into kind of mindset and more writing focused lessons later in the program.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Definitely. So I love a good worksheet. And I think the elevate worksheets for trying to work through your argument, work through your framework were immensely helpful. Um, it gave me a place to start and think about, you know, the types of questions I need to be answering about the argument and the framework, like how I need to be positioning my book, how I need to be thinking about my contribution and my audience. And in some ways, like, you know, there are books out there that try to teach you how to write these things. Actually, there are so many books about book writing. And you can continue to read and read and read, right? And try to kind of self-help your way through it. But I what I like so much about Elevate is it just really cuts through a lot of the noise and tells you exactly what you need to do and what you need to be thinking about to write a good book. Um, so that's why I really valued that. I especially uh valued the extended framework. I hadn't really thought about a framework for a book before. Like I thought about an argument, but I thought the framework was a really great kind of approach to writing a book because you think about like how is my book going to be situated in a broader literature? Um, how is it in conversation with other scholars? And how do I want my book to be received by the public once it comes out? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

And you've done a great job of that because you're at Russell Sage now working on your book. So clearly have explained how your book is important to like various different stakeholders.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Absolutely. And Jane, I will also mention that when I was writing my proposal for the Russell Sage Foundation Visiting Scholars program, I used pieces of the elevate work that I did in that proposal. And I think that it was helpful in getting helping me get that fellowship. Absolutely. You you're so good at Dumbledore.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

I try. All right. So in terms of, you know, like what you found most useful, maybe not most useful, but what do you can are there parts that you go back to now that you're out of the program? You know, because you completed it. You know, so are there parts that you go back to to kind of refresh? You're like, oh, I'm gonna start like a new term or like a new chapter. Are there parts of the curriculum that you return to now?

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Absolutely. So the first is the outline. So we learn through the curriculum how to outline our entire book. And I will say that when I did elevate, I wasn't really at the stage of like outlining in detail each individual chapter. Um, but I used the outline to create kind of like a mini framework for what each chapter would be and what the argument would be. And so I, as I'm writing chapters now, I continue to return to that framework to kind of like figure out am I on the right track and I'm am I moving in a different direction? And just kind of seeing where I'm aligning with the book that I envisioned. And then another piece that I return to, which is actually something that was taught in one of the editorial workshops, is a worksheet that Kaylee shared on how we cite the literature and how we kind of create like a list of the literature. Um, and making sure that we don't dive too far into the rabbit hole and like we understand like what we want to pull from each source that we're using. And so I still use that for every chapter that I'm writing um when I'm writing like the lit review portions of it. Yeah, the how to how to know when to stop. I think it's called how to know when to stop reading. So valuable because you can continue to read for months on end. You have to find a time to stop and to actually start writing.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah, yeah. And that's the that's the rabbit hole that all academics in general. I mean, you don't become an academic because you hate reading. You become an academic because you like reading or you love reading. Right. Uh sometimes you have to stop or just slow down.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

And I think also that it it covers up some of the insecurity I think we have around writing. It's like maybe you don't necessarily feel comfortable jumping into the writing, so you'll just continue to read. Um, and I think that's something also that I got from the curriculum and the coaching is to recognize when it's time to put down someone else's work and to start focusing on your own.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Okay. So what would you say to someone who was on the fence about joining or someone who was considering joining the program? And I know you've spoken to several people who are, you know, over your time. Yes. I have recommended several posts, been interested in joining. So how would you advise them like what factors to take into consideration when deciding?

SPEAKER_00 13:21

I think that's a great question. Um, so I think time matters. So I started Elevate when I was in the third year of the tenure track. I think I was just wrapping up the third year. And I don't necessarily say that like someone needs to time it at that exact point, but I feel like for me, that was the moment where I really wanted to pivot my attention to the book. I think if I had started earlier before I was really ready to fully focus on the book, I wouldn't have gotten as much out of Elevate because my mind and my attention would have been pulled in too many different directions. And it's not to say that when I started Elevate, I was working on chapters. I wasn't. I was still trying to figure out the conceptualization of the project, the argument. Um, but I knew that once I finished Elevate, I wanted to kind of dive into and to start writing those chapters. So it just felt like a sweet spot for me. So I would say think about the time factor, think about, of course, your tenure clock, but when you want to start fully focusing on the book. And I would say that if you're at that moment where you want to divert your attention to the book, do not hesitate. If you're on the fence, I would absolutely encourage you to do Elevate. Um, and especially if you could find some financial sponsorship through your institution or apply for a grant. Um, I love to apply for grants to pay for these things. Sometimes there are small grants that you may be able to take advantage of. And for me, I would say I'm someone who's continued with um the programming. So after Elevate, um, I did the sign and revise program. Well revise and refine. Sorry, Jane, if I messed that up. Uh but I felt like it was I was right the first time. Yeah. Okay. Um, but I feel like Elevate was really that launching pad into the actual chapter writing. I know there were other folks in the cohort who were writing chapters who were a bit more far advanced, but I think for me the sweet spot was conceptualizing the book, figuring out what it is, so then I could dive into writing chapters. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Awesome. And I would love to hear just a little bit because I know everyone listening has this question. You are very good at applying for it.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Yes. I would say, oh, I think so. I apply for them a lot. Yes, I'd be happy to answer any question you have.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Okay, so like three tips about because you're a sociologist, and I know sometimes people believe you know there aren't there isn't as much money in the social sciences or the qualitative social sciences or the humanities, which is true. There is not as much money. Well, now things are a totally different funding environment. But in general, like if you were like, these are my three tips, and you said one already, which said you apply to a lot of things, but I'm assuming you don't write like a completely brand new from scratch right proposal for each of these. So I think that's something people think like it's very time consuming, and there's no guarantee that that'll be an like an ROI for me.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Exactly. Yeah, so I think so. One kind of bit of advice that I got from my advisor is sometimes applying for grants can be a very random process. It's not that your grant proposal isn't fantastic. It could just be that someone who was a reviewer just maybe they had different tastes and what they were looking for. And so it's really a numbers game. So the more you kind of throw your hat into the ring, the more grants you're likely to get. Um, it's just like probability. So like apply for as much and everything that you possibly can without derailing yourself from your other work. Um, and I think the other point that you mentioned is like you don't have to reinvent the wheel every time. You can carve out pieces of your project to apply for different grants. Sometimes you can make minor changes to a proposal and resubmit it to another funding agency. Or so in my case, sometimes I would apply for internal grants at my institution and use a very similar proposal to apply for an external grant from another institution. And I would just not apply to cover the same expenses, of course, but you can use it to cover different expenses, like elevate, for example. And then I think the last kind of the third tip that I would share, and it's so unfortunate because NSF is just a very different institution at this moment, but they always had like this broader impacts kind of statement that they wanted researchers to include in their proposals. And that's something that I tried to apply to all of the proposals that I submit, even if it wasn't NSF, is to think about why this particular project matters, why it matters for this particular moment and who could benefit from the results of it. Um and it doesn't necessarily have to be social science or inequality-related work. I think there's a lot of value in all types of work across the natural sciences, the humanities, and the social sciences. But think about what, you know, why someone would want to fund this and why someone would want to read um your results. And I think that's it.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Do you have anything that I did not think of? No. I think, oh, in terms of the cohort model, maybe I could share a little bit. Um, so I really appreciated the Elevate cohort model because I think working in academia can feel very isolating and lonely at times. And so I appreciated coming together with other folks who were also working through the process of writing a book. And I also appreciated hearing about their process because I learned from it and adopted some of the practices that they shared. But also in those coaching calls and editorial calls, uh, folks would ask really insightful questions. I hadn't necessarily even thought about or thought to ask. And I think getting the answers to those questions really improved my overall kind of approach to book writing.

unknown 18:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

And you had a very lively cohort.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

We did. We had a fantastic cohort. It was great.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Yes, I'm remembering now. It's coming back to me. Well, thank you so much, Brittany. Thank you for having me. No, it was my pleasure. And you are finishing out your year at Russell Stage now, correct?

SPEAKER_00 19:20

I am. Um, and I'm working on that final main chapter and hope to get them the uh full draft of the manuscript in the beginning of the fall. Awesome, and then we can look forward to seeing it in print in probably about 18 months, right? That's the goal, yeah. Like 18 to 24 months. Yeah. Awesome. Do you have a title? And still in progress. I'm not good with titles. I'm still waxing and waning. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

But that's good for book authors to know, like you do not have to have this perfect title to submit a proposal, to get grants, to get prestigious fellowships. You can have a working title and it could change. I think sometimes people think as soon as I put something down on paper, it's it's solidified and confirmed that I can never go back, and that's not accurate.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Not true. And I've changed the title of this book so many times. And I even have like a note in my Apple notes with like 20 different potential titles. So I think once I get it written, I'll kind of workshop it and see what folks think. And that's completely fine. All right. Thank you so much, Brittany. Thank you, Jane. Take care.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. Remember, writing an academic book is challenging, but that doesn't mean you have to overcomplicate it. If you liked what you heard in today's episode, please leave a review. This helps get the word out about the podcast so more people will listen and we can continue the conversation. Take care and tune in for our next episode.