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Charge Forward Podcast
The Charge Forward Podcast: Dedicated to those who choose to Charge Forward into the Storm when hit with challenges. This is what makes them different and has lead to their success. When in doubt.... Charge Forward!
Charge Forward Podcast
From Combat to Calm: How a Navy SEAL Reclaimed Peace at Home
"From Combat to Calm: How a Navy SEAL Reclaimed Peace at Home"
EPISODE DESCRIPTION
What happens when elite warriors return home—but can’t turn off the fight?
In this gripping episode of The Charge Forward Podcast, retired Navy SEAL Zade Morgan shares the raw truth about life after two decades of high-stakes missions, IED blasts, and combat deployments. The battlefield taught him to survive—but back home, that same hyper-vigilance nearly destroyed his connection with his family.
Joining host Jim Cripps is Dr. Michael Meighen, a pioneer in regenerative medicine and trauma recovery. Together, they reveal the groundbreaking treatment changing lives: Stellate Ganglion Block (SGB). This procedure, once used solely for pain management, now offers warriors a way to reset their autonomic nervous system—and reclaim peace in their lives.
Morgan’s transformation is nothing short of remarkable. From isolating with alcohol in the garage to coaching his kids’ sports teams, he explains how SGB gave him back the “white space” he never thought possible.
The episode also explores War Tribe Foundation and its mission to bring cutting-edge healing to veterans and first responders left behind by conventional systems. Their new technology, INVI, uses biometric data and trusted “swim buddies” to detect early signs of crisis—before it’s too late.
🎯 NEW: Brain Ops by INVI
Zade Morgan and his team at INVI MindHealth are taking their mission even further with Brain Ops, a daily supplement developed to protect and support the cognitive health of veterans, first responders, and law enforcement. Designed to combat the invisible threats of blast trauma, environmental stressors, and inflammation, Brain Ops is your shield against the long-term risks of TBI and CTE.
"Shield your brain. Honor your service."
Backed by INVI’s cutting-edge research and commitment to making the invisible visible, Brain Ops helps foster resilience, reduce isolation, and support mental clarity for those who’ve sacrificed so much.
Learn more and join the mission at invimh.com
🧠 Defend your mind. Secure your future.
🎧 Don’t wait until it’s too late—your future self will thank you.
📲 Watch or listen now on YouTube and all major podcast platforms!
🩺💛🏃🏼♂️➡️ Want to connect with Dr Michael Meighen?
📘Facebook Dr. Michael Meighen
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📍 Amazon: Best Selling Book
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📘Linkedin Zade Morgan
📸 Instagram: INVI instagram.com/invimindhealth
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and some of the wives will come up and give me a big hug and you know again.
Speaker 2:So you've saved our marriages and families and and those sort of things too you know, a lot of times I was wearing headphones and stuff, even when I'm in the kitchen cooking with the family around, because I couldn't stand the uh noise, the noise the kids talking and stuff. It was just. And then if I, if I get stressed, I would go grab a beer and then go to the garage and like should never, you know, reload and drink beer, but I would like reload shells or woodwork. I don't do that now.
Speaker 3:Hey team, Jim Cripps here with the Charge Forward podcast coming to you from HitLab Studios here in Nashville, Tennessee. I'm excited to be back with part two with my favorite doctor, Dr Mike Meehan, and we've got Zaid Morgan in the house today. He's a retired Navy SEAL and is doing some fantastic work. In fact, they met through some efforts through a foundation that's helping veterans kind of rebuild their bodies and use regenerative medicines and techniques and therapies in order to improve their life. Zaid, welcome to the show. Thanks, Jim, Absolutely yeah, man.
Speaker 3:Well tell me how did you meet Dr Mike. Yeah, man. Well, tell me how did you meet Dr Mike.
Speaker 2:So through a foundation I went to get a procedure called a stellate ganglion block, flew down to Tampa, met Mike. He gave me a dual sided stellate ganglion block. Before I'd had one about six months before. It was just one side, one shot, didn't see a ton of results, but it helped me enough to where later on my wife and I went down to and we each got one and he kind of explained, you know, how the dual side worked better and, uh, just kind of honestly, kind of hit it off, kind of had similar interests, kind of became friends there and saw some pretty phenomenal results from it. Yeah, um, in the same time, you know, I'm involved in a nonprofit that kind of helps veterans and first responders see kind of treatment outside of like the military system and uh, that's kind of his passion as well. So it was kind of carried this forward and here we are.
Speaker 3:I love it, dr Mike. Um, you know we're doing a multi-part series here, uh, and I love that. When we started talking about it, you were like I've got some guys that I would love to have a part of this. Um, so, you know, give some people some ideas. They know, um, where you, where you work and that kind of thing, but, uh, we haven't talked about the foundation yet, and so give, give people a little bit of insight into that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there are for context, there are multiple foundations, um, across the U? S that help, you know, special forces and or military members to try to get treatments that may be a little bit outside of the norm and are trying to help enhance mental health, physical health, spiritual health, family health and a number of things to really help enhance the folks that have, you know, fought for us and, and you know, have kind of laid their lives on the line all the way around. You know, have kind of laid their lives on the line all the way around. So, um, past two years, I've been working with a foundation that would send a special forces, military folks and their spouses or significant others, and basically what we would do is, you know, do a pretty robust lab and or assessment before they came down, kind of getting ideas and thoughts about what their main challenges were, what some of their main difficulties were, but also, you know, some of the things that they felt like they had dialed in and then trying to help enhance their overall metabolic health, cell health, uh, hormone health, enhancing micronutrients, vitamins, macronutrients, and or finding other things that may be a bit off, you know, with the type of work that all of them do.
Speaker 1:Heavy metals, environmental toxins can be problematic. Gut health is usually something that is a particular problem too, and there's other things as well. But we get them dialed in, at least kind of starting before they came down, make sure there weren't any significant issues or contraindications that do in the procedure, most primarily just looking at bleeding parameters, and then they typically would fly down for four days. So they come down the day before. It's a two day procedure and we get no reasons why that is. We do one side one day, one side the other, primarily for safety purposes, and then they fly out usually the following day.
Speaker 1:So, um, you know, it has been quite rewarding for myself and or with some of the feedback I've received, both from the people that we've treated some of the spouses, significant others, and even, you know, occasionally from other family members and that sort of thing, because there were some that you know had fathers that would come down with their sons or both of them were in special forces and some of the things from that standpoint, which was quite rewarding as far as that goes too.
Speaker 1:So what we're doing now is trying to come up with a reasonably robust program to really hit folks in areas that unfortunately are lacking, either through the VA, through TRICARE or even through just general health, population treatments and mental health health. A big piece from that standpoint and you know it's definitely come and become more to the forefront, but still one of those areas that is still kind of in the shadows or in the dark a little bit. Um, both from a stigma standpoint but also, you know, to some degree they don't want to be taken out of active duty or they don't want to be labeled.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 1:And we all understand those type things, even coming from you know my standpoint. Every time I renew a license, I'm asked multiple questions in relation to mental health as well, health as well. So I kind of understand those pieces. But by the same token, it's also important to understand that if that's not in line, your physical health, your spiritual health and some of the other things aren't going to function or optimize either, and you know it's. It's definitely an area that you know I'm passionate about. I mean, I've been a burnout physician and have dealt with some of those challenges. So feeling like you're always on that rat wheel and unable to get off is kind of a uh less than happy place and position for sure.
Speaker 3:Well, and for those out there that don't know and I'll blunt myself into that same category I've heard about, and we know, mutual friends that have had the procedure done, but, and I may mispronounce it, the stellate ganglia is that still a ganglion, so it is an anatomic region.
Speaker 1:So what we're primarily treating is the autonomic nervous system. What does that mean? So think of the nervous system pieces that you don't have to think about gut motility, sweating, pupil dilation, heart rate, blood pressure control, um, all of those things that are kind of on automatic pilot to some degree in your body, just kind of just readjusts depending on the situation and what is presented to it. Um, the downside almost all of us is stress levels are incredibly high for almost everybody. And you know we have the capability of handling that stress with kind of our sympathetic nervous system, which is kind of our fight or flight nervous system, where it can get us out of danger or help us react very quickly and, you know, reduce some of the potential risk and problems.
Speaker 1:The downside is a lot of us don't get back down to baseline or equilibrium, so we're always in that hyper sensitive, hyper vigilant state. And it does cause changes to the body where, you know, cortisol levels are elevated. You know sleep becomes a challenge. Um, you know it. It can negatively affect relationships and how you interact with friends, family, colleagues. Um, it can negatively affect your immune system. It can negatively affect your blood sugar control just because your cortisol is out of kilter, out of whack, so it can have cascading effects to the point where it can shorten your life, um, you know, increase your risk of, you know, things such as suicide or other areas of concern and, um, you know, is not conducive to longevity and or health span.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, and I think it's again, it kind of goes back to that idea of it's not one thing, it's all the things in your life that contribute to either your positive state of being, uh, whether that's mental or physical, or emotional or spiritual, you name it. Um, but it's, it's all those spokes that really kind of come together to make the whole person.
Speaker 1:Correct, and so you know what we're doing with.
Speaker 1:You know Zade's foundation he can get that a little bit more in detail.
Speaker 1:But there's others too, um, some primarily with military focus, some with first responder focus, some even with spouse and or significant other focus, and they're all important. You know Brianna went into great detail in response to that yesterday, so please look at that podcast as we chat and she, you know, noted it eloquently and beautifully that the stress permeates kind of throughout everybody in the family, not just the person that is a military member. That's right. And you know, if the women or the significant others and there's some that are reversed, some of the women or the operator and they have male, you know, partners If they're not treated or they're not empowered or they're not felt to be part of the team, it can cause continuing issues, problems, challenges, difficulties and eggshell walking and some of the things that have been described before. Sure, the beauty, at least, of what we were doing was treating both partners or both parties and really trying to strengthen the family unit yeah and have them walk through the interventions in a similar time frame.
Speaker 1:it was great to support, and the other thing I might really focused on was having the partner in the room with them when we were doing it, which was very helpful and powerful too, especially for a lot of support and you could see it was interesting too. I mean you could see the relationships that were pretty positive or like both sides were supportive of the other. Then there were some that were, you know, a little strained or a lot strained, and even we got feedback on some of the folks that maybe it seemed a little bit off, that it really seemed to bring them closer, and some of the other things too. Ok. So nice.
Speaker 3:Well, zayden, if you will kind of walk us through you know, not just, not just the procedure that you went through, but give us a little back story. I mean, I know you were Navy SEAL just retired what a year ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, January 24th.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, first off, thank you for your service. We've had quite a number of veterans on the podcast, some special operators as well, and I mean you guys are just really that. There's not a thanks, there's not a handshake, there's not any of those things that can really say the thank you that needs to be said. It's appreciated.
Speaker 2:And honestly, it was probably the biggest honor of my life just to serve with the guys I did, and you know that 20 years I'll cherish forever, um. So for me specifically I think a lot of guys at least the time and frame when I got it I had a lot of things going on. So you got a 20 year career where you're going from being really at the tip of your game, running, you know, full on operations overseas, very high level, very capable guys, and you as an older guy has kind of been beat up over. You know you have hundreds of jumps, just dives been, you know, hit IDs, wrecked Humvees. You know I was able to kind of shove that away and just keep charging forward right To make it through my career. I see what you did Right, I see what you did Right Um. But really when you step away from that your relevance is gone. Your body starts kind of breaking up because you don't need it anymore to that level Um. And then you have to change careers to your identity is is kind of stripped away.
Speaker 2:It really is, and I didn't believe it when I heard people tell me that, but it truly did, because it was a hard thing. That giant wheel keeps turning, dude, and you're just holding the spot in it. As soon as you step away, there's 10 guys waiting to get in that spot and that wheel turns. I went back to my old team that I spent 15 years there and I didn't recognize anyone in the true putt. No one recognized me and it was kind of a cold shot, you know. So adding the stress of trying to find a different job. And then, finally, the other thing is I was home a lot. So before that I'd be gone at least a couple hundred days a year, if not more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if you think about it, I didn't really know my family. You know I was like a suitcase husband where I'd come home, drop my laundry off, play with the kids, go to a football game, turn around and take off for another trip on Monday and then, you know, deploy or whatever. Yeah, so I was home with the wife all the time. So we got to know each other again and found out that maybe we didn't get along with certain things, like I'm used to running stuff. She's used to run her house. I come in and try to run stuff like I do, and it's her her her castle.
Speaker 3:It's her domain. She's been the one holding it down for the last 20 years.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, like there's, you know, some fights ensue there and, um, you don't really know how to hang around your kids that well, you're used to being like kind of, what we were talking about with the SUV is, you know, every decision you're making at work has big time effects, right, you mess up on that. It could cost someone their life, it could cost a lot of things. Um, so I had a hard time kind of toning that down from where. A mess up from a kid Isn't the same as somebody putting a breach wrong on the door? Sure, right, but I was having a hard time toning that down because I had one way of talking to people and it was causing a lot of problems and we were kind of almost at a breaking point where we were trying some counseling, some other stuff and, believe it or not, that going and getting the SGB just seemed like it just knocked me down from always being at a 90% level of alertness down to just mid-level. So when you're up that high, you don't have anywhere to go, sure. So it seems like to everybody like when you're up that high, you don't have anywhere to go, sure, right, so it seems like to everybody else. You're blowing your top and it's never turning off either, right, right, just constantly vigilant. You don't even realize it right. So any creek in the house, anything like that you're just because you know the way we worked overseas forever is. You know we work at night. So a lot of times we're on, you know a quick recall. So you know you, a lot of times we're on, you know a quick recall, so you know you a lot of times have 15, 20 minutes to get up, get your gear on, get briefed and go. You know do hit a mission, so just taking it's a long process, kind of stepping away from that and getting back to where you can just kind of live like a normal person.
Speaker 2:And you know, what I found with Dr Michael was just it was kind of profound really. I mean I feel like a whole new person really. You know, I just I think I was telling him, you know we just got like some really nice you know dinnerware right, one of my kids, the boy, always breaks stuff, but he knocked this plate over, shatters it, and I just kind of looked at him and was like huh, oh well, just a plate where six months before that I probably would have been like yelling at him. Yeah, you know how can you be so clumsy, that kind of stuff, right? So it's really helped me in that way. Um, and what was the original question? So I can remember where? To you just have backstory, that's it. Yeah, just a little backstory.
Speaker 3:Uh, I mean we can go all the way back when it's again uh, you know the the thing about this podcast is it is your story. I am just here to facilitate so you know you can go all the way back to growing up in Montana, or you know when you just joined the military or what made you decide to want to become a special operator, or we can just talk about from the experience of meeting Dr Mike and current. It's whatever story you want to tell.
Speaker 2:All right, all right. Well, I think I was probably one of the uh and I won't really talk about going through like seal training and early on I spent my whole career like pretty much in the global war on terror. You know, like we, we fought, seen a lot of uh injuries, um, a lot of broken, broken dudes Right, Um, and everyone gets them Right. And I, I was really against surgery. So I you know the way I've maintained and I was able to like operate for that long without surgery was I was kind of very interested in biohacking myself and trying to figure out ways to kind of cheat the system and keep going, you know, yeah, um, so that right there, you know, I'm always willing to try to be the first guy to try something new and you know, luckily, having a professional do it for you instead of doing yourself is the way to go Right, sure, but what I found in the military is, you know, even if the docs and the teams wanted to try to practice regenerative medicine, it doesn't happen because you know we don't have time for that. So it's really just a lot of like acute, you know, treatment for pain and injuries with painkillers and anti-inflammatories, up to the point where when you get a break off deployment you'll go get cut on. I'm going to do rehab and then line up again, because the way the cycle works is it's a two-year cycle, so broken into six-month blocks. So the first six months they call it professional development.
Speaker 2:It's kind of when the platoon's coming together. Your old guys leave, your new guys come in. So you get new guys fresh out of selection and training. You have to get them boned up on all your SOPs. You have to get them comfortable in the platoon, get everybody acclimated Right and then in the platoon and then you get everybody acclimated all right and then you have to go actually do real training, because the stuff they learn in you know, seal qualification training is just bare minimum to not hurt yourself, right, um, so it's that six month is busy.
Speaker 2:And then from there you go into a unit level training and that's where you hit all your core skills as a sealer right. So you have your jump block, your combat diving block, your urban assaults block, your CQB land warfare. Mobility just never ends right. And then after that it's like the last six months is when you integrate all your assets you'll have. So you get your enablers, like your drone operators. If you're going to be working with special boat team guys, you get them in. You might get some Air Force PJs or CCT guys and your helicopters. Um, if you're going to deploy with a squadron of blackhawks or the 160th, you'll start getting rotations in with them, getting to know the crews and then it's off to war.
Speaker 3:So it's like an 18-month build-up to your six-month block of active combat that's right.
Speaker 2:okay, you come home and you get a couple weeks off and you start the whole thing again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I did seven of those over the first 20 years. When we were talking I had never thought of it this way, but you were saying how, with younger guys, I guess the first six-month block is typically integrating with the team and that kind of thing. And for your older guys, that's when they have their surgeries or try to repair their body, to get back into the swing of things after having just come back from a very short break, but just right after having been six months of active wartime duty.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right, I mean, and for the most part the guys do a really good job of trying to eat healthy. You know there's we have a really nice gym, we have trainers, you know great physical therapy, great orthos, those things. But, like I said, there's not a lot of time. Unless you're off the rotation, you're not going to hit that very often because, and also, guys you know are pretty bougie about what workouts are doing. Right, you got guys doing Jim Jones or guys doing CrossFit, or you know some guys that, like marathon or runners, they want to run. So it's pretty hard to have, you know, group PTs, because there's always going to be about half the guys are complaining about what kind of workout you're doing, cause, it's right, you know they're trying to get big and other guys are trying to run but, um, so we have the assets there, it's just there's no time.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, I mean, I think at that level, um, it's almost you almost expect them to have their own specialty or thing that they want to do, because we're not talking about entry level guys anymore, we're talking about guys who have been there, done that, and they know what works for them, and so that's that's why they're kind of stuck in whatever mode that they want to be, you know, training or that kind of thing. Um, so it's probably hard, probably hard to convince them otherwise at that point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then add that to like work hard, play hard is the motto, right, so it's a culture and uh, just that.
Speaker 2:I don't think I need, I think everyone understands what I'm talking about there, um, so you know, and sleep and stuff is thrown in when you can in the middle there, um, and so you know 20 years of that.
Speaker 2:Uh was a lot of fun, but at the end of it, you know, you got a lot, a lot of problems that you've just kind of shoved away, physical and otherwise, right, and then there's a lot of guys that aren't able to navigate that quite as well, in fact, a ton. There's a lot of things that aren't able to navigate that quite as well, in fact a ton. There's a lot of things that you know we were exposed to, whether it be, you know, chemicals or that kind of exposure, or you know repeated TBI exposure or just being at that level of alertness and, like you were saying, having that much cortisol and those stress hormones through flowing through you all the time starts to kind of weigh on you and uh, what we see is including myself was, um, guys have problems in that, like you know, the last couple of years, and after they separate or retire it's, it's really difficult, man.
Speaker 3:And uh, everything that you've identified as goes away, yeah, and so it's. It's almost like you're mourning the loss of that, of what you, you were, you were and you know especially for men not not that women don't, but we, we derive um pleasure and satisfaction from the hard work that we do that we were successful at Right. And so you go from, you know, cranked up to a level 11 for 20 years. I almost liken it because we keep using these automobiles as an analogy, but I think of Navy SEALs and special operators in general almost as jet skis, because nobody runs at half throttle on a jet ski. You're either all the way on or all the way off. No kidding, right? I mean, that's kind of how I see you guys. You know, having haven't met several special operators and had similar conversations you're either you know your body's in quick repair, you know, and then, and then you're right back on, you know, cranked up to 11.
Speaker 2:yeah, and really there's. There's not a lot of time there. So if you get hurt or you try to take a knee in the middle of a platoon, you're letting the whole squadron down or the whole team down. You're letting your guys directly down because you're not going to be there with them. So it causes a lot of guys to. You know. You just push through it, right. And so that was my mentality when I got out as well. I thought I could just, you know it would adjust itself and I could kind of push through. But unfortunately I carried a lot of those bad habits kind of with me. But um was eyeopening, was you know, and kind of what got me into this, like especially the foundation, was um.
Speaker 2:My last, my last active gig in the seal teams was as a platoon chief and uh, about six months after we came back from deployment, man one of the best guys in my platoon killed himself and no one saw that coming at all. You know what happened is his. His twin brother died from a accidental fentanyl overdose and uh, he had a pretty rough childhood growing up, so he was never much of a big drinker. He didn't seem to have any of those problems and he just went to his house and locked himself away for three or four days and everyone just kind of gave him space, said, hey, just need some time. Well, he drank a couple handles of Jack and then offed himself, tragically, man, and that was a guy that was really close to me. But before that that was a guy that was really close to me. But before that there was, you know, a lot of guys that I worked with, because the SEAL teams are pretty small. You know there's a couple thousand guys on the East Coast and so you know, you know most of them, you know most of our families too. So you know like a death in combat is one thing and everyone can kind of understand that. You know it's expected almost um, when suicide or you know, even training accidents are expected, but suicide is just it hurts um worse because there's it's a lot harder in the family, it's hard on the guys, it's a lot harder than losing a guy to combat and it didn't seem like anything in the system was really addressing that. I mean not. You know they can talk about, you know, 30 a day or whatever, and people can, you know, try to raise awareness for it, but nothing in the va or anybody else was really doing was helping. I mean, they there was talks of trying to get some you know studies for mdma or these other things.
Speaker 2:Um, and then my friend and I like jonathan wilson Um, and then my friend and I like Jonathan Wilson um, who was kind of he started up seal future foundation beforehand, but so he, he, he really cares about that and that's um, we decided that maybe it was, uh, something different and only so we look towards like alternative um, therapies, right, so, um, plant medicine and then doing things in the outdoors, like just communing with your brothers and unplugging, being outdoors, fishing, hunting, just camping and whatever. So another thing I realized, or we both realized pretty quick, was that there's a ton of charities, nonprofits, set up specifically for SEALs and special forces guys. Well, there's very little for first responders, law enforcement and even basic, you know, veterans. Really, I hate to say it, but that kid that did like four years in the infantry and spent all the time in afghanistan worrying he's gonna die, and then he just gets, you know, canned out of the army and they're like good luck, man, here's your, go find a job. You know, yeah, um, go be, go be regular. All right, you know, yeah, um, go be, go be regular, right, you know, and it's hard enough for us. But you think about that. I was for one I've selected out of a group that already applied. You know, I was already graduated college before I enlisted in the Navy.
Speaker 2:Um, and then our culture and everything else, I just we're, we're always on the offensive, right, we always had the night vision, we had the plan, we were the ones attacking and it still was scary and hard, right, and those guys were a lot of times were totally different situations where they can't control what's happening to them. They're out on patrol waiting to get ambushed. It's got to be terrifying for them. So we wanted to set up a non-profit that was going to address problems with law enforcement and like normal veterans I hate to say it like that because I love my veterans but the system kind of overlooks, right. So that's where kind of War Tribe came from, and you know I'll have to get Gianni in here to explain the logo and the feather, but that was from a medicine journey that he did and kind of that's really the idea.
Speaker 2:Going forward is where we, you know, after getting the stellar gangling block with Mike, we talked as he. You know he moved down to this Centner Wellness Foundation and talked about wanting to help out vets and first responders, law enforcement and just so happens to be kind of what we're into too. That's right, and there's not a lot of people doing what he does, nor shows the same level of care concern Like I was kind of blown away when I did my lab with you, sat down for almost a half an hour with me on the phone, went over each one, explain them yeah Like this is affects that.
Speaker 2:This is kind of where you're at here. This is okay. These numbers seem like they're a little high, but they're not, because this is good and that's the first time I've ever been, you know, had that level of care and treatment Right. So I really felt like, you know it wasn't just a number getting marched through by a doctor who was just going off the, you know, standard operating procedure, it was really, you know, unique. So we want to figure out a way that we can do that and provide that for guys that maybe don't have that opportunity.
Speaker 2:If you had the resources that, you know I Was able to go do that because I, you know my background right but Talking with a lot of you know I worked in the past a lot of like Fed long, like FBI guys and SWAT guys. You know we do a lot of like Realistic urban training around the country and a lot of times like a city like Chicago or Houston will will host you. So you get to be friends with these SWAT guys and of course they always want to, you know, do CQC together, close quarters, combat, you know, test tactics against each other and kind of talk. And you know he became pretty good friends with them and you realize that you know well, I do a deployment and I'm gone for six months and that during that six months is like, yeah, you're at war and you might you live, sleep and breathe it.
Speaker 2:Mm, a lot of these guys are, you know, like one of my friends, ron Hale, who's, you know, on the board with War Tribe. He's a SWAT. He's been a SWAT guy for 30 years in Indianapolis and he told me how many operations they do in a year and it blew my mind, you know, and I go and see these guys and a lot of them were younger than me and looked older than me. Because they're not sleeping, they're not taking care of themselves, they're doing regular police work on top of sometimes, if it's not a professional SWAT team, they have other SWAT duties and most times these departments don't have a lot of money for, you know, care, preventative care, regenerative care for them, and I think it's important. So that's kind of where you know the idea behind. Well, our motto not motto, but um, we want to be inclusive and help everyone that needs it Right.
Speaker 3:Well, I think those guys, like you know, yes, when you are, uh, in in a deployment, you're cranked up to 11 and the knobs ripped off, but those guys are constantly trying to figure out whether they're going from zero to 11, those guys are constantly trying to figure out whether they're going from zero to 11, like throughout the day. Not that yours doesn't, but you're on high alert when you're in that zone, and they could be in the zone at any time, Not you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know I never believed in post-traumatic and I really thought that it was just maybe like I hate to say it, but maybe like a weaker minded person, right, but I think the most disturbing stuff I saw was when innocent like women and children got caught in crossfires or, you know, something happens and you have to either help them or you just you're helpless to help them because it's it's gone well, um, and I can picture four or five of those moments that still burn in my brain where I've saw, you know, a lady behind the door that breached, they got her eyeball blown out or a kid, you know it's. But those guys see that every day, every damn day, and I just I don't know how. You know, of course you know, of course you know alcoholism is huge.
Speaker 2:You know alcohol abuse I should say not alcoholism but alcohol abuse, sleeping pill abuse, divorce, divorce, exactly and we just, I think you know the stellar ganglion block is something that we, you know I presented to some SWAT guys and some there's some DEA guys as well with the my day job is we'll get into that but talking to them, we were telling them about, um, sgbs as a possible solution to some of this stuff and no one knew what we're talking about. Zero clue. Um, you know cause. When they go in for their talk therapy, you know they get a. You might get put on some antidepressants or something and they might get some talk therapy, but really they're just checking the box, they're quarterly and pat on the back and get back out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's not sustainable, right, I used to think it was. I think you could fake it till you make it and you'd be fine. But I came so close to, I guess, kind of losing the bubble that I'm a lot more passionate now with trying to get in front of that right. So, um, and that, I guess, is a good time to get into what nv stands for invisible visible, right, um. So what we do there is the name of the company is called invi, invisible visible, and what we do is we take any, any, any major wearable that you can have that tracks biometrics. So the main ones are heart, heart rate, heart rate variability, and michael can probably explain a little bit more of that. It's a good sign of, like, overall allostatic load and health. Right, it's how much your heart varies, but that's's a big marker we look at. We look at, um, the amount of steps you take during a day. Uh, there's a. If you ever look at aura or garment or whoop, they take a ton of them, right, and so what we did is we kind of theorized that you could take all those and that could be formulated into a mind score is what we call it, but really it's a numerical kind of value that we represents, like where your mental wellness and resilience kind of sits. Right, and that was kind of the solution we had to getting in front of some suicides. Right, because almost every time that we've lost a member, a team guy, one of our teammates there's been things that have happened before that right, very rarely is it out of the blue. The guy does it right. So we take those biometric readings and we, we built a large language machine learning, algo, that jams all those numbers up and it creates a personalized trend line for you. Right, and that's we call it your mind score. But we can predict that. So we know, like, what happens to your. You know if you have, say, you drink too much over the, that night or the weekend, your HRV is going to be bad, your sleep's going to be bad, that's going to affect your steps and everything else. Right, well, carry that forward. And then you start really trending down and that's when we start seeing like mental problems, right, and then you start really trending down and that's when we start seeing like mental problems right. So we get ahead of that to where, if you start coming off your trend, the app knows it and it'll notify you and starts giving you some in-app solutions for maybe fixing your sleep, maybe getting more steps, maybe it's just going out and like grounding or barefoot, and the cool part is is you know, with those solutions you can physically see efficacy of what you're doing and how it's affecting your mind score, so you kind of know what works for you and what doesn't Right and lastly, and kind of what breaks this out of, just like a aura or whoop or whatever, is we, we?
Speaker 2:You know, my most important I started I should start back in seal training, starting in buds. You have a swim buddy so you don't ever go anywhere without a swim buddy, even if you say get in trouble and have to run to the surf to get wet and sandy, your swim buddy goes with you everywhere and he has to be within arm's length, right and so that my swim buddy is Jonathan Wilson, and so the guy's been my best friend since you know so many room inspections, swims, runs, everything. Well, we pair you up with a peer-to-peer support network that we call a swim buddy, and so it could be anyone. It could be your wife, it could be your best friend, it could be a significant other, it could be your doctor, it doesn't really matter. What happens, though, is when you start trending down, it alerts your swim buddy that, hey, you know Zade's not doing too well. You might want to check in with him see what's up, and that stops the normal thing that happens when you know.
Speaker 2:If you just call up a random friend and say, hey, joe, how you doing, the normal answer is hey, I'm doing great, cause you don't want to tell your buddy I'm not right. Well, this kind of takes that out of it, because I know that if I am looking at John's swim number and I've been notified what's going on, I ask him hey, buddy, how you doing? Man, he's like I'm great. Yeah, no, you're not. Why don't you cut the bullshit? Man, yeah, what have you been doing? What's wrong? Tell me about it.
Speaker 2:And that's been very effective for us. And so that's kind of where the company was born out of. Right From there, like leaps and bounds with figuring out how to like secure data, how to uh, warehouse that track, many different modalities, right, so, um, you know, with that software you're able to take and, like you could physically see someone's number, biometric numbers change. When, like, say, I got my stellar ganglion block, I was kind of blown away. Like a day later I sent him a screenshot of my sleep numbers, cause they went from like kind of dog shit to like decent Good Actually.
Speaker 2:I was like I got a little crown in my aura thing. It was pretty amazing and I apologize for swearing on us. No, no, you're good, you're good, it's real.
Speaker 3:So, dr Mike, from your perspective, um, I mean, shed some light on on this swim buddy and the, the app, the ai, all the things that are coming together for this yeah, I mean it's kind of the as I started doing, uh, this type work.
Speaker 1:It was one of the things. I was like there's a hole here in looking kind of where they are before, what happens the couple days they're there, and then also seeing what happens as they return home and get back to life and some of the other things too. So we wanted to get some objective data just to kind of see if it was moving the needle hopefully in a positive direction for specific markers or more objective markers. Now, none of these things are perfect as far as the assessment piece, but they're pretty accurate to you. So your data may be different than his and the numbers may not jive, but your numbers compared to you and his compared to his are pretty good, sure.
Speaker 1:So you know my goal and thought and, as you know, zade came in to do his stuff. We started talking. I was like, yes, that's what we need. So I mean, my goal would be to probably run data a couple weeks before they would come for treatment. We could do longer, obviously, with ai now. We could probably run it a month and still have some pretty reasonable ways to look at things and then see what it did day one, see what it did day two and then probably follow it weekly thereafter and kind of see where things were, see where improvements have come, because you know there's even with this and know we talked a little bit about weight loss yesterday too.
Speaker 1:Um, everybody just wants to look at the pound number on the scale. There's a lot of nuance and there's a lot of markers and things that you can look at that can show pretty specific benefits, even though the number may not be changing dramatically. So subjective, very important still, and that's part of their algorithm a little bit too. They have some questions that you have to answer daily. But it also gives us ideas, because I have some people that will come and go. I don't know that it helped me a great deal.
Speaker 1:And then you start digging a little deeper and it's like how's your sleep? Oh, it's much better. You know I'm getting seven, eight, whereas before I was getting four or five. You know how, how are your stress levels? And most of them are going to suggest it's better. You know talking, relationships and certain other pieces. So I think it at least gives more objective assessment of where things are going. And, you know, I think people can jive with that a little bit and get a better handle on idea. But yeah, this maybe is doing some things more so than just I feel better. Yeah, um, and sometimes it will take some time and you know it's not going to help everybody, unfortunately. But I would say our numbers, just anecdotally, are similar to what the study data shows.
Speaker 1:About 75 to 85% are going to get some form of benefit, whatever that means to them.
Speaker 3:I mean 75 to 85%, is I mean?
Speaker 1:outstanding.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the and the world of therapies and treatments, that's huge, yeah, and you know it's been well studied.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, one of my colleagues who was in the same field I'm in um is also a former seal, has done a lot of work on it and primarily did it on military members. Most of them were treatment resistant, meaning they had tried multiple things and weren't getting any benefit. So, um, you know, you know it's, there are a good number of studies and this procedure has been done for almost a century, primarily for pain control initially, and still is and still you know, works well for that. But definitely has gotten into the neuropsychiatric field over the last 10 to 15 years and even still, as they'd said, it's still kind of not mainstream and you know, still a lot of education necessary and that sort of thing from that standpoint as well, but definitely becoming at least a little bit more known and you know, has some risk associated with it, like anything. But you know, in in good hands and that sort of thing it's a very low risk with. I think you know pretty high reward associated with it as well. Yeah, so you know it's been something. I've added that you know we've talked about regenerative therapies, which I love doing as well, but this probably has worked even better than I anticipated, to be honest with you, especially with the feedback given.
Speaker 1:You know talked a little bit about yesterday and you know, zade, referencing some of the suicides. I mean, I've had a couple guys come up to me and we have fundraisers, at least for the group we were working with, twice a year and you know four or five will come up to me and pull me aside and so you know I had a gun to my head or I was pretty damn close until you did that thing and it really helped me. And some of the wives will come up and give me a big hug and you know again say you've saved our marriages and families and and those sort of things too, and and some are, you know, but less dramatic, and just saying, oh man, you know I'm really crushing it. My business is taking off and doing great, I'm able to focus and do the things, or, hey, I'm sleeping so well. You know you forced me to go take vacations and and just kind of unplug all of those things downstream are massive, you know.
Speaker 3:Obviously you know somebody choosing not to end their life is is a huge event, but it's all the things downstream. What happens to their lineage, what happens to their family tree? You know kids growing up without a father, all those things. Same thing for a marriage that's saved. Or even the guy you know you said somebody crushed it in their business. How many lives are affected by that. You know that guy may own a business 100 employees?
Speaker 1:Yeah and for sure.
Speaker 3:And then the three or four people at home that depend on that income. So there's massive benefit when you've got something that's that's improving people's lives to that degree at 75 to 85% efficacy, I mean wow, yeah, no question.
Speaker 1:And then going back to what he was talking about with what we look at. And then going back to what he was talking about with what we look at, I mean I tell people that work with me, and this is in my speech I do optimal, I don't do normal. So if you're coming to see me, you're going to be in the top 2.5%. I don't really care about the other 97.5. I don't want you there. Not that I'm against those people, that's not my point. But if we're looking at numbers and we're looking at, you know, data, um, I want you to be in that upper, upper, upper quartile, exceptional um area and not just, hey, everything looks normal, that doesn't do anything for me Go see a regular doctor.
Speaker 1:You want normal right and you know it's. I think it's important to try to educate and kind of give ideas and reasons why you're doing what you're doing, not just do this Cause I said so, yeah. And to a man and woman I mean um, I've gotten kind of similar feedback, which you know makes me feel good, but also I think they're getting a service that they haven't gotten and unfortunately they've, I don't want to say been forgotten, but it kind of feels that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and then you know listen to stories. It kind of reminds me of just looking at professional athletes or NFL guys and that sort of thing. It's like they're going to use you up until you're used up and then you're out of here. We're going to throw somebody else in there that's younger and probably makes less money, and I'm not saying they don't care, but it just kind of feels that way. You're just going to get used up to the point. Once you're done, then, hey, good luck. Yeah, sayonara, which is not where we want this to be, which is another reason that you know I. I really think this is a big undertaking, but also, I think, an incredibly rewarding one. So goals for me is hit as many people as we can, for sure, but also teach other docs or other people um ways to do this as well, so we can kind of force multiply it yeah and kind of turn around the challenges that we have in the healthcare system, and it's it's all systems, whether it's VA or insurance or cash or any of the other ones.
Speaker 1:I mean it's it's definitely broken, but there are ways that we can help move it forward, and these are some of the ways that we can make that happen.
Speaker 3:Well, and again I think it goes back to that You've got to be your own advocate because you've got this fragmented system or these multi systems that are fragmented and not not optimized to work together and definitely not optimized for the individual. But we have to, we have to. Just, we're not going to fix that tomorrow. So you've got to use each piece for what it's worth in order to get the maximum benefit for you and your family For sure. So, zade, what are you excited about? I mean, you know, just in talking to you, I mean, dude, you're fired up. You know, obviously you've changed really who you identify as, because you went from this special operator into now I'm retired, and you know I've got to, I've got to learn how to get along with my family, and you know. But you get this procedure done and it takes the edge off of that, building relationships there, and now you're helping. Now you're looking to help other people, like what's next, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean, this whole thing, especially in the last six months, is just kind of giving me a lot more white space to do stuff like coach my kids' football team, coach baseball, go and enjoy kind of things, right, so that's kind of where I'm leaning as far as what's next. My career-wise, I'm still passionate about where I'm at. Never worked in tech, I don't really know what'm doing, and it's it's my best friend because, you know, it's a startup. So I'm getting the full gambit of like everything there trauma, fire, yeah, it's uh, it's rewarding and it's also, you know, it's ups and downs. Um, I think I'm just excited to be able to step away from that and actually do those things like be a dad. I'm really hoping that I, you know, find a way to move everyone back to Montana and, you know, be able to take them out whenever we want and enjoy nature with hunting and fishing, hiking, you know all these things. So, um, be a dad.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I love it and I felt like before that there was no room in my life for that. You know, a lot of times I was wearing headphones and stuff, even when I'm in the kitchen cooking with the family around, cause I couldn't stand the uh, the noise, the kids talking and stuff. It was just. And then if I, if I get stressed, I would go grab a beer and then go to the garage and like should never, you know, reload and drink beer, but I would like reload shells or woodwork or do something and just kind of stay away from everybody. Yeah and uh, I don't do that now. It's fun. I'm like engaged, I'm like talking about stuff. I can't believe it took this long, but just recently I had them. You know we're in a car together. I had them listen to Metallica on the way to a football game.
Speaker 3:Well, on that note, Dr Mike, you enjoyed a pretty good concert last night. I did.
Speaker 1:That's one of the reasons I came along with seeing some friends and talking with you and it's been a great week and I got the second round tomorrow night with them. Good, so how was Metallica last night Outstanding? As usual, they're fun. I mean, you know, if you know their backstory, they've had issues, traumas, alcoholisms, death of a band member. I mean you know a number of things that a lot of us has dealt with as well. But you know they've kind of forged a bond and work through some of the issues and you know it looks like they're having fun.
Speaker 1:At this stage, I mean, they're really enjoying themselves and, you know, very engaged with the crowd and and really just embracing, you know, their 40 plus years in the business and um still sound great, um, still highly energetic and um, really just a lot of fun. I love live music. It's just one of the things that kind of lights me up a great deal. Um, you can jump around like an idiot and you got, you know, 20 to 40,000 people doing the same things and um just having a good time. Yeah, and um, you know the, the sound, the music. I mean there's a lot of angst in the music and some things they've dealt with, including, you know, suicide and some other things too. Um, but it's um, it's a lot of fun to me. So, um, and you know, end of the month my daughter and I are going in Charlotte as well, so looking forward to that.
Speaker 1:Okay, she's had some health related challenges for a number of years and has really um, worked hard and kind of coming out of that and getting ready to get back and finish her undergraduate degree starting this fall and kind of reintegrating herself into society, where she's been kind of out for the last six to eight years, which has been very difficult, both as a parent and as a health provider. Um, and you know there's been difficulties all the way around with, you know, family and and and that sort. But you know, I carried around a lot of burdens in relation to some of the things that happened in relation to our relationship, her care, some of the other things too, and I've done a lot of work and kind of unburdening that and I think she sensed it and our relationships tons better at this stage. So, and you know, same thing with my son and some of the other folks too, but, um, yeah, so really excited to spend some time with her and she's a she's a big fan of, you know, older classic type rock, so that'll be fun as well. So, but uh, yeah, I mean mean, it's been a great week so far and I've really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:You know, I lived here um 2020, 2021. We met here, and, yeah, a few other folks. I really enjoy this area. It's one of my favorite spots, for sure. Um, you know, you got your city time and you also could go get lost in nature pretty quickly too, which is nice, and you can breathe and and just feel and that sort of thing. I really liked Tennessee a great deal, so it's been great coming back and then, you know, getting to hang with Zaid and yourself and those things I mean you know, just meeting him.
Speaker 1:The way I describe is like if you close your eyes and think Navy SEAL, then open them. There you are, there he sits, Yep. But he's just a genuine nice person and really a big heart and I see that in pretty much everything I come in contact or everybody I come in contact with that we worked at from a military standpoint. They're really I could probably count on one hand the number of difficult people I've dealt with. And like I said, we treated well over 800 people.
Speaker 3:That's amazing. And the downstream effects for 800 individuals is just massive.
Speaker 1:And it's incredibly rewarding. It's just massive and it's incredibly rewarding, and I love the fact that he's wanting to give back and come up with solutions for challenges that he and his business partner and fellow SEAL have seen. And there's other folks that we have in our environment that also have been in the military and some other things that are also physicians, that we lean on as well and just trying to get ideas on how best to optimize and or enhance people's lives so that they can enjoy and live how they would like to live.
Speaker 2:So yeah, should tell you a little bit before we end about the kind of the plan, of how it's going to come together and fly. That's kind of something I'm excited about. I love it. Yeah, I haven't thrown this idea yet because I was trying to figure out the right way. But, um, we want to do like 10 to 20 people a week, right? Um, this is the new edition because I was adding up all the hotel costs.
Speaker 2:I want to get a team house that's there that the guy's coming out of, right, it's a staple like solid there, where not only when they're there, right, we give them classes on like have a dietician come in, have a supplement expert come in, talk to them about like do's and don'ts, you know, same thing with diet, maybe some exercise. Get someone to come in and teach some like different, like vinyasa yoga or something to meditation things. Have, you know, leila sentner has a farm in homestead where she raises like bison and beef, so like, have really good food there. Um, just kind of have a nice like communal spot where you know it doesn't matter if it's a first responder, veteran, navy seal, whoever, all the same dudes they can kind of sit there and like it kind of gives them a look at like what a clean, healthy lifestyle would be like and hopefully they get a support network out of that. But if you add all those guys up, like 20 guys a week, that's a, that's 400 and some dudes a year that could come through there and they're getting everything that Dr Michael can offer as far as like we're testing for heavy metals, they're getting an exhaust like a, a big blood panel. You know they're getting tailored care to them to kind of help bring them out. On top of that we're going to knock down their alert level or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2:They're by SGB and that's kind of the I think that's the beginning process of them like hopefully transforming themselves and because that's really the beginning, like that's the beginnings of like recovering as you start feeling good about yourself because you can see results, you're feeling healthier, you're less pain, because you're less inflamed. But a lot of times you know people don't know what, how to take supplements or what a good diet looks like. You know you might think you're eating healthy and you're not sure. You know Um, and the brotherhood part is huge. You know it's um. You know we want to track these guys from a couple of weeks in to get like a baseline and then really want to keep track of them for, you know, another year and um, you know, and possibly offer um, you know, like plant medicine, to the guys that really need that, you know, because that's, that's a definite um that can help a lot you know, and how does somebody you know, uh, this foundation?
Speaker 3:how does somebody get involved? How does somebody donate? Is it? I mean, what? What does that look like? If there's somebody out there that feels compelled, uh, after hearing the story, and wants to help, how do they, how do they get involved?
Speaker 2:That's great. I mean, we can come to our website, um war tribeorg and you can donate there. Uh, we were going to do a fundraiser. Actually, we're talking about Nashville this year, so I'll make sure and let you know, okay, yeah, that Nashville or Fredericksburg, texas, come. The center foundation are the main people who are supporting this idea.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, and that's kind of about it right now. We're fairly new. We're only a couple years old, yeah, and we've only been able to help maybe like 50 or 60 guys so far with our stuff. But that's ramping up. It's going to ramp up big time. So, really, what I'd want to talk to your listeners that know a first responder, a law enforcement guy or a vet who seems like they could use something like that. Please have them reach out to the website. Um, we'll get their name down and get the information and then, when we get this program rolling even if you know it's a emergent case or something where someone needs some help Now we have a ton of we know, you know a lot of people in the space that we can direct them to until we're ready to start getting them, you know.
Speaker 3:Hang on. You mean, uh, navy SEALs are resourceful. I have no doubt that if somebody calls, you, guys would absolutely like figure it out if it was an urgent need. So that's fantastic.
Speaker 2:So you know, big, obviously, a giant passion of both of ours. So you know, please, if you know someone or you are that guy, you know, please, reach out to us, we'll get you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that's awesome, that's awesome. Um, so, you know, somebody out there right now is is thinking that's for somebody else, that's not for me, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not that uh bad off. Um, you know, they've, they've got, they've, they've grown accustomed to uh, shaking it off, walking it off. However you want to say it, what would you tell them?
Speaker 2:You know if people are telling you that or asking how you're doing, maybe you think it, you probably are like by the time you realize. You know that maybe you've you're not as good as you think you are and maybe you can't handle on your own. Hopefully that's just not you bouncing off the bottom. You know you're the rock bouncing off the bottom. That's normally when people get it together and a lot of times there's already been a ton of damage done to your family, your personal life. Hopefully it's nothing irreversible or permanent like suicide, but as those things seem to like snowball man a lot of times on the way down that's like it seems hopeless. You know emotion, your emotion, regulations messed up. You know another thing that we didn't really talk about. Much was like hormone regulation.
Speaker 2:You know repeated exposure to TBI affects your pituitary gland, which was kind of that master computer, your whole system. You know, and like I was adding up a lot of the TBI exposures I had um for when I was. You know um going through my VA. You know, and like I was adding up a lot of the tbi exposures I had um for when I was. You know um going through my va. You know veterans, administration stuff and, uh, I'm like thousands, of thousands of exposures, you know, and, and we wear blast gauges that measures, you know, the blast exposure, but there's not someone that comes around and like reads them and says, hey, you've had too many blast exposures, maybe you should sit it out for a minute, you know?
Speaker 3:um well it's, it's chronic exposure to it. Yeah, it's repetitive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, repetitive, yeah. And even you know, standing in the indoor shooting range shooting unsuppressed, next to people you think about 30 or 40 people lined up next to each other, shooting 10 and a half inch m4s without suppressors, you know those muzzle brakes on those, shoot all the air pressure out it. You walk out of that with a headache and the same thing you know. I knew that I had a couple. I got really close to a breaching charge in Iraq, rung my bell Same night. We hit an IED Next night RPG against the wall next to you and that gave me a headache and it was weird and I knew I was kind of off and I knew I had my bell rung. But then one of the last things I did in the Navy was I was the senior chief at breaching school, like our explosive entry school, and we have a kill house. That's two stories and it's uh uh like the senior chief at breaching school, like our explosive entry school, and we have a kill house. It's two stories and it's metal and it has to be, because we use shotguns, explosive breaching, we put metal doors in and use torches, it's everything. But even the shotguns and flashbangs going off in that thing, they reverberate and echo, and it didn't take long and I was going home every night with a feeling sick to my stomach, with a migraine, yeah, and I couldn't sleep and it was starting to mess with me. And then I had guys coming forward that were younger, in their 20s and 30s, that we ended up sending to nico, which is the, the national intrepid center of excellence, which is really like where they go to send guys to diagnose and try to treat, um, brain injuries. Um, we're sending 30 year old E6s to Nyko that are only they've only been a seal for seven or eight years, but they've had so many TBI exposures that it's starting to hit them.
Speaker 2:And then you test the guy's testosterone and he should have an 800 or 700 because he looks like a physical specimen, but he's down in the 200s and so no wonder the guy's depressed right Testosterone sucks. He's not recovering like he should, he's not sleeping. So what's he doing? He's like drinking monsters all day to stay on point, and then he's drinking Jack Daniels until he falls asleep. Yeah, and it's just not the way it should be. You're never going to cultural changes. Take a lot and like changing that kill houses is hard, and then the Navy's looking at it Right, but it's multimillion dollar kill house you can't put. You can't put linings on the wall that absorb the sound because it's a fire hazard. You know there is this and also you know you blow something up next to it. You can't have stuff that could fly off the wall and fly down the hallway and hit people.
Speaker 3:Or even just the fact that you need to train in that real situation that is going to be that loud and that that chaotic, because when you're actually in it for life and death, you better be used to it. It just yeah, it's ugly, but coming up with a better solution is not easy exactly exactly.
Speaker 2:So you know, we used to try to see how close we get to the explosives. Wow, like you know, there's the way, the explosive art. This is just sidebar, nothing to do with a lot, except for just how. I guess how foolish we were. Yeah, but do you understand how the explosive kind of blast wave propagates? Um, it comes out in like an arc, like a fan, and then if there's something in front of it they'll bounce right. So hallways are pretty gnarly, or corners or rooms, because you'll get like a compounding like effect of these colliding shock waves. But in the right situation you can lay a hefty charge on that door and if there's not a wall in front of me, I could stand a foot and a half away from it and the blast goes out and around you, which is great if you get it right. But if you get it wrong, you're right, it'll blow your nods out or something you know.
Speaker 2:So that culture, I think, is changing. Especially this new generation of guys doesn't seem to be quite as gnarly, but still doesn't matter, because you have so many thousands of veterans now and a lot of the people that served in the marine corps, army, whatever, are now our police officers. So you took a guy who probably was exposed to a lot of stuff in the military, put him right over into you know the law enforcement and then tack on another 10 or 15 years and an extremely stressful job. And then by the time they're you know about my age and they're mid forties or even you know, younger, older, whatever, but it's uh kind of comes to a head every time, man, it seems like it. And you know we want to, we want to provide resources for them that they're not gonna see, you're not gonna.
Speaker 2:You don't get that level of treatment, not even close at the VA. You know you're a number there and you're getting run through a machine by probably a doctor who you know has a giant book of patients that they have to see that day. Yeah right, and they're also limited, like dr Michael was saying, by like what they can and can't do. You know they have to see that day, yeah Right, and they're also limited, like um Dr Michael was saying, by like what they can and can't do. You know they have a list of like a, then you get B, that's it.
Speaker 3:So well, I love what you guys are doing, Um, you know, and I love the fact that it's very unselfish from the standpoint of you didn't have to look outside and go. We should be including, you know, the veterans that weren't special operators and you didn't have to look outward and go. We should also be treating these first responders. So I love that it's unselfish in that way that it's like look, how do we help all the people that have dealt with this same type of situation or something similar, and just make the world a better place For sure. So it's fantastic. Well, thank you both for coming in, thank you for spending some time with us and team, especially if you'd like to donate, if you'd like to be involved. That website is going to be war tribeorg to help support this fantastic work that they're doing.
Speaker 3:You know Dr Mike's group at Centener Foundation and then also War Tribe just working together in order to bring a lot of harmony to, you know, these special operators, first responders, veterans that have risked their lives protecting our freedoms and our ability to make choices, and so what a great way to kind of give back and to be supporting them. So, again, thank you so much for tuning in and guys, thank you for coming in and sharing my pleasure. Thanks for having us. I can't wait to have you guys on next year and let's talk about just how many lives have been changed. Absolutely Awesome, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's just in.
Speaker 1:Going to the cumulative brain trauma, um, I went to a course last weekend and Dr Mark Gordon, who's big into the brain injury space, um, feels that PTSD is the direct result of either an acute brain injury or cumulonormal brain trauma.
Speaker 1:So, going back to what Zay was talking about, where he thought, eh, I'm not sure that that's really a thing, or I don't want to, you know, say that I have that. Um, I think it's direct result and even if you look at people that have been incarcerated, almost all of them have had some type of brain injury, brain trauma or some type of trauma in their past that, you know, has kind of made them challenged as far as their vigilance or their ability to kind of control their emotions and some of the other things too. So, um, it's real and don't ignore it and, at worst, reach out to somebody. Yeah, if it's family, if it's friends, if it's, you know, clergy, if it's physician, it doesn't matter. You know, brie brought up a great topic yesterday in relation to the fact that if you talk to somebody for eight minutes, your parasympathetic nervous system kicks in and you start calming down.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Well, I love that phrase down. Yeah, well, I love that phrase. She said, whether it was with her, her spouse, or with her loved one or anybody, she could call and just say I need eight minutes, and they would know what she was talking about, correct? I think that's just a great policy to put in place with everybody that you know. You never know, uh, military service or not, you never know who might need that eight minutes.
Speaker 1:We're all going through stuff and we need to understand that. And I mean, don't be afraid to lean on your friends. Um, they understand, if they're your friends, they're. They're going to lean on you too. They're going to. You know you're going to need each other at some point. So it, you know, we've got all these neat tools and those are great, but you know, simple measures, just don't try to do it alone. That's right. Um, I think those are kind of big keys and big take homes from that standpoint.
Speaker 3:Absolutely Well. Dr Mike Zaid, thank you so much for spending some time with us. It's been fantastic, for sure. Absolutely. Thank you, team. Continue to check out the series again. In this four part series with Dr Mike and um uh, be looking for the episode with William Arnold, a gentleman that was falsely imprisoned for seven years. I'll guarantee you some of the things that Dr Mike was talking about apply in that situation as well. That episode will be coming out soon.
Speaker 3:Again, thank you for tuning into the Charge Forward podcast. I hope this was the message you needed. I hope you can take some pieces from this conversation and improve your life and those around you. Until next time, I'm Jim Cripps with the Charge Forward Podcast. Take care, team, is Jim Cripps here with the Charge Forward Podcast? I just want to tell you I love you. I appreciate you listening, I appreciate you for subscribing and sharing the Charge Forward Podcast with people you know and you love, because that's what we're here for. We are here to share the amazing stories, the things that people have been through, the ways that they were able to improve their life, so that you can take little nuggets from theirs and help improve your story and be better tomorrow than you are today. I hope that this is the tool you needed at the right time and that you find value in the amazing guests that we bring each and every week. Thanks so much and don't forget new episodes drop every Thursday.