Is the Local Church Still Relevant?

In a world where we can stream incredible sermons, listen to endless podcasts, and access biblical teaching anytime, it's easy to wonder: Do we really still need the local church?

In this episode, I'm joined by Nicole DeBehnke, author of The Local Church Girl, to explore what Scripture says about God's design for His Church.

We talk honestly about the messy parts of church life—conflict, disappointment, differing opinions, and the refining that happens when we choose to be a part of biblical community. Because while church isn't always easy, it's in those very moments that God often shapes us to look more like Christ.

Together, we discuss what it truly means to be the Body of Christ, why every believer has a unique role to play, and why the local church is far more than a place to hear a sermon,it's a family to belong to and a people we're called to love. Through our unique giftings, we get to be a part of The Body of Christ. When we’re missing, a whole part is missing. 

If you've ever questioned the relevance of the local church or struggled after being hurt by it, this conversation offers both biblical truth and genuine encouragement.

Because you don't just need a sermon, YOU NEED A FAMILY.

https://www.therootedministry.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You are listening to the Rooted Podcast with Crystal War. Together we go deeper in order to live lives that bear more fruit. Thanks for tuning in. Hey everybody, and welcome to the Rooted Podcast with Crystal War. I have a sweet friend with me today and a very special guest, Nicole DeBinky. She is a fun last name. And we always have the best conversations. So I'm excited to have this one. I'm in my sweatshirt. I've got my blanket, my matcha, and I'm just ready to see where this conversation goes with her because it's always so encouraging. Nicole, anytime I talk to you, I leave feeling so encouraged and just literally go into my Bible to pick up and read scripture to go back to our conversation and bask in all of the things that we've talked about. I feel like when we met, it was just an immediate connection. We didn't even start with like, you know, how long have you been married? How many kids do you have? All of the things. It was like straight into like kingdom conversations. And I'm so excited about this study that you've put out. But not, you know what? Let me let me just start out by reading an excerpt from here. Let me just do that. Awesome. All right. So there's a place in here. And the study that Nicole has written is called Local Church Girl. This is my copy of it. My my daughter's put a nice little sticker on there for me. So just the heart behind what you've written. There's a place here on page nine. It says, I realized I was a local church girl through and through, and that I deeply wanted others to see the value of the local church body and find their place within it. The Lord was awakening a movement in me, and I had yet to discover. So, Nicole, tell us about this study that you've put out, your heart for the local church. I love that you specifically said the local church, because we live in a day where that's so important. And just, you know, how did how did this all come about?

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Oh gosh. It was really just one conversation. Isn't it crazy how God can just use one conversation, one idea, one thought, one thing that can become such a big burden? And overnight, really, it became a burden. I remember I was sitting with a girlfriend here at my house, and our kids are in the same grade, and so they're playing in the yard. And uh she's a pretty new friend. And so she just said to me, Hey, you know, I'm really believing for my family to get saved and I'm praying for them. And I'm like, oh, that's so incredible. And she's like telling me all this stuff. And so I'm like, what church do you go to? Just, you know, thinking she's going to church. And she just immediately was like, oh no, I don't go to church. And I was like, you know, I didn't let her see my heart in that moment because I didn't want her to be embarrassed. But I was like, man, Lord, like, wow, that is sad. That is so sad that she so wants her family to be saved. But there's almost this like this rejection of the church in the way she said it. And I was like, I wonder why. I'm hurt by her response. And it lingered. I thought about it all day. And then the Lord just said to me, you know, Nicole, this is not something new you've heard. You know, you know many people who love me yet don't love the church, don't cherish the church. And I just thought, oh my gosh, like, what is this? I was so sad. I started thinking about all these people praying for them and trying to understand like why they might not cherish the church and realizing, like, man, we're in a falling, fallen world. And one of the worst reps that the church gets is that of hypocrisy, right? That believers are hypocrites. And the reality is that it's so easily people forget that we still are, even when we get saved, we still have a flesh to deal with. And so you get these Christians who are blinded by the reality of their flesh. And it becomes hypocrisy and ends up hurting people to where people resist the beauty of the church, the community of the church, the healing, the power, the call of the church. And so that's really where it came from. And then I realized, like, shoot, I am a local church girl. And just realizing, man, the Lord had actually given me a vision of just seeing, you know, women fall back in love with the body of Christ and really just pillars rising up all over the globe of healthy churches, people who would run back into the church aware of the enemy's attack and that our churches would begin to flourish and be really effective and really the bride getting ready for the savior to come and get her. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I love that you say that. And I want to talk about that a little while in the conversation, about our duty as the church. Once we are a believer and once we are plugged in and we've been discipled, and obviously it's a journey that we stay on until we get to the other side of eternity. But our duty as believers to represent God's bride well. Yeah. That that we have to, yes, hurt happens, and anytime people are involved, there's going to be a mess. But churches do hold this weight to do better, you know, to help hurting people and not add to the hurt. So I definitely want to talk about that. But before we get into that, you talked more about it in the study, and I knew this about just your life, that you didn't necessarily grow up a church girl.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

You know, I would say that I did, but for me, my story is a little different. I I've always been a church girl, but there were many, many years where I took the church for granted, if that makes sense. Church was something that I went to. It was something that I was a part of. I didn't see myself as the church. And there were many years that I would not have been the best example of the church. But for you, me too, girl.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Me too, girl. I was there on all of us. The reality is all of us have been there. We have taken for granted the church. So if you're listening in, it's okay. We've been there. So, you know, there's another side to this. Keep pressing in. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

So I laughed and I just fell more in love with you when I read in the book. This is talking about your like coming to church. And for the listeners, Nicole is now, she's a pastor's wife. So, you know, she is she is in this thing. She is their whole life is dedicated to the church. I'm gonna read another expert. So the night I walked in, honestly, I was embarrassed and I didn't want to be there because a couple days prior at the water baptism, I had flipped off the youth leader teaching the message. Now my husband, Chris. I tried to hide in the back of the room, waiting for the night to begin so it could be over and I could leave. So this is you coming to church. This is a new believer. And you know, it made me think, especially for people who have been in the church. I I wonder how people, and still we see it, how they respond to those who have not been yet churched. You know, like we had a group of guys come, I think it was in football team, that came to one of our Sunday services. And when they passed around offering buckets, they put their trash in it. Like, you know, that they didn't know what it was. And and people were like, how could they not know? Like, how why would they put trash in here? And I was like, thank God they're here. Like that is who we want here on Sunday. You know, sure there's a call for the people that are there to like put their tithe and offering in that bucket. That's what it's for and that's what the church needs. But I was like, praise God that we have people that are so unchurched that they are sitting here on Sunday hearing this message. And our response to them, the way that we love them, the way that we love the person who puts trash in the offering bucket, the young girl who shows up and flicks somebody off, or or maybe the kids that show up and their clothing doesn't look churchy, whatever that might be like. Right. Like praise God for that. And like, can we talk about how the response of the church and how you coming to church and literally being discipled through that? How, what has kept you there, I should ask?

SPEAKER_02 7:42

This is so, so great that you asked this. And I really asked the listeners to like, this is this is so important to like lean in. Cause first it was a boy that brought me to church, you know, it was for the long run, right? My cousin, he invited me to church. I got saved that night. My life was completely transformed. But then I started, it was Christ, but also this cute boy I started to like, the guy I flipped off, the youth leader, and um coming, wanting to be around him, but also at the same time, so my flesh was coming for the wrong reasons, even though my spirit, the new created part of me, was being filled and satisfied by things that God knew I desperately needed.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

What was it that kept you in church and kept you going back?

SPEAKER_02 8:32

After I got saved, my the reason for coming was um because all of a sudden I thought he was cute and I wanted to get to know him. But the cool thing was that every time I showed up, even though my flesh brought me there for that reason, um, my spirit also was so drawn to the atmosphere. And really, it was the family of Christ that I absolutely needed. Yes. I can't tell you enough. And and even Jesus says this is that when you become part of this family of Christ, it's like you find brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers, you find a family in Christ. And that is just so, you know, it's so invaluable, and people don't realize the depth of that family, that it's a spiritual family, and we really are spirit beings before we are flesh, because God created us before a flesh was put on us, like he had intent for us, he formed us in our mother's womb. There, there was a thought prior to the flesh putting on. And so, you know, I just think that it's so incredible because what kept me was the family that I desperately needed, the friendship, the mothers and fathers, and the people that would guide me.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Were there any particular people who kind of took you under their wing and mentored you or really just felt like they were walking with you in those early days of the journey or even now? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

So again, all of our stories are a little different. And uh my person that I like clung to was my mother-in-law, my husband's mom. And she was just, she is rather just such a ball of light and joy. And every chance that I could be on a phone call with her, to her to just help me, encourage me, cheer me on, pray, read the scripture. I would I would be in her office all the time. And we laugh at it, we look back all the time because I was I was there all the time. I mean, like when I tell you, I wanted to be at the church every moment that I could be, doing anything. And so yeah, that was my mother-in-law. She she was amazing. And then, of course, a bunch of friends from youth, because I got saved in youth, and um they inspired me. They were courageous and bold, and you know, I loved it. I was around a good atmosphere of people.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

So your mother-in-law was pouring into this young, beautiful girl, not knowing that she was actually pouring into her future daughter-in-law, the mother of her grandkids. Like, how cool is that? I think about that now. You know, and for me, I when I was on staff at our church, I was over our kids' department and I had a lot of teenagers that would serve with me. We call them the dream team. And I I just loved the teenagers. I loved serving with them. I loved their energy, I loved their questions, I loved everything about serving with them. And now, so my my oldest was in children's church at the time. And now a lot of the mentors, I get emotional thinking about it, the mentors that are pouring into her are the ones that I was getting to pour into years ago with no selfish strings attached. Like, I didn't know that these kids would stick around and somehow end up being mentors to my daughter. But like, that's just a picture of the church. Like, you sow some and you reap some. And and praise God, like there are times where I'll tell Ren, I'll be like, go text Charlie. Have you talked to Charlie about this? Have you talked to so and so about this? Because I know that she needs to, even though like she has me. And I think I have pretty solid advice, right? I think I'm gonna tell her great things, but I'm also aware that at her age, she needs people other than mama speaking into her. And praise God for the body of Christ that she can pick up her phone and text or call someone who's probably gonna say what I would say, anyways, but she's gonna hear it differently, you know. So I just that's so cool, like thinking about your mother-in-law and her precious just pouring into this young girl. And now this young girl is her daughter-in-law and the mother of her grandchildren. That is so beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Yeah, it really is neat. You know, we never really know how God's gonna work out our stories, right? And that's why we really just need to appreciate the journey that we each are on individually because there are these wow moments, just like you were saying, like that is a wow moment now that we're living out and reaping the benefit of because she loved me really well when she first met me. You know, she didn't have expectation, like, oh, I really need to treat this girl good. She's gonna be in my future later. I was nobody to her. I was just a little girl that came into the church who was hurt and broken, and she knew what I needed. It was the goodness of God, it was a steady relationship, steady character, um, steady love and affirmation and all those wonderful things that really make the body of Christ so powerful. It's steady community. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

So I said we would come back to this and I want to talk about it. And I want to be so uh kind that I can come across a little bit like to the point. But you're I I I have a heart for the local church, even in the title of your Bible study, it's the local church girl. You know, we live in a society where uh people don't want the inconvenience of being in a church in person and like so thankful for um online messages, you know, at at the uh touch of a finger, our phone, our tablet, our computer, we can get incredible messages. We can not attend church on Sunday and at our convenience, watch Sunday's message through the week. We can listen to podcasts, we can listen to incredible speakers, you know, deep theology. And those are great and they serve their purpose. So I don't want anybody who's in a situation where like they have to be online church right now, you know, maybe it's a sickness or maybe it's a work schedule or whatever. Praise God for that when we need it. But for the person who's like, I'll just do online church, and it's almost like a way to feel protected if if you've been hurt by the church. Yes. You know, I think listening from home and and not really engaging in person is a way for people to feel like that they're, you know, still going to church, but without all of the strings attached, maybe. But there's something to being in the room, being able to hug a neck, being able to like have that face-to-face, being able to have conflict. I mean, that's part of going to church. Like if you're if you're doing it right, there's gonna be some conflict with these people, right? So let's talk about the benefits of being in a local church body, serving it, attending in person, you know, maybe it's small groups or Bible studies during the week, whatever that looks like. You know, can you speak to the mama who who thinks like it's too much of an inconvenience or maybe she just needs to stay protected?

SPEAKER_02 15:52

I love that you're talking about this. And honestly, it is there's there's so much with online community versus in-person community. And if you look at it right now, we've had this entire generation grow up in online community with all the social media and stuff like that. Then we had that huge world, you know, disaster with COVID, where it just cut everybody away from each other and isolation kicked in, and people got a lot more comfortable living isolated lives. Yeah, not touching, but also with this form of community that looked like community, but really wasn't. And community in person is so important because when we're around others, it fleshes out and reveals what's in us. Our patience, yeah, our long-suffering, our kindness, our gentleness. Like those are real fruits that you need to practice with people. And it's so much easier to, you know, stop the conversation online, turn the video up, scroll to the next video, and not allow that fruit to actually work in your life versus because you can't just scroll a person at church, you know, you're in conversation with them, you're rubbing shoulders with them, you're there. So you have to allow the fruit of the spirit, amen, to be at work at you. And I did a I did a message a little bit ago that you know, if you are in Christ, then you have the fruit of the spirit. And so many times people are saying and waiting for themselves to be joyful to activate the fruit of joy, to be gentle to activate the fruit of joyfulness, to be patient to activate the fruit of patience, you know. In reality, it's like you have these fruits because you can't activate it on your own. You got to do it by the spirit. And so I want to encourage everybody that if you really want to grow in the image of Christ, you need to get around community. You need to be planted in a local body of Christ, serving on a team, joining a life group or a small group, whatever your church calls it, going to the women's event, hanging out with other parents, with children, you know, whatever it is, you need that because it's going to reveal what is still needing to be sanctified in you, what needs to be, you know, healed, restored, set free, identity, all these things, but we cannot do that alone. We just can't. Yes, the word of God can reveal certain things to you, but again, that's a one-on-one thing with you and the Lord only, versus something He wants to show you what you really are out in the world, not what you are behind a screen.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Girl, you are preaching, and I'll even go and tell myself a little bit. I was walking with a friend the other day and we were we were talking a little bit about this conversation. I was telling her that I was gonna record with you and what the conversation was gonna be. And I was like, you know, I've even realized for me, like there's still sanctification that needs to happen, right? Like we have not arrived past the need for it. And I am, you know, I'm just a very protective person over my people. And there's this person that I can think of that I feel like hasn't handled one of my friends well, hasn't handled a situation well. And, you know, it would be easy to hide and not see them at all. But walking in, and they didn't do anything immoral, it's not you know, it's not anything like that. It's just like I don't like how a situation was handled. And but to see that person and to feel those emotions come up and to say, okay, Crystal, like what is it in you that you can work on? I can't change this person. I can't make them go back and change how they handled a situation. I can't make them even think that they were wrong in how they handled the situation. Not for me to judge, right? And but what I can handle is all right, Holy Spirit, I'm feeling a certain way. And maybe pride wants me to just dig my heels in and say, I have every right to feel this way. They're this and they're that and they shoulda and they could have, and all of the things. But I have found by continuing and like having to face people, not just this instant, like people in general, continuing to face people that maybe I would rather, like you said, scroll past. And like you don't get to do that unless you're not you shouldn't. Like there's a purpose for it. There's a purpose for it. Like I said, I'm telling myself a little bit, but like that's just because we are human. And those are things, you know. So there's things like that, but then I also get to look around on a Sunday. Like I walked out of church this past Sunday, and I was like, thank God for these people that I look around and see. I used to go to church and think, like, are they looking at me? Are they worried about you know what I'm doing, or all the things? But like I look around that sanctuary and I'm like, I got to hug this friend who literally is a walking miracle because of modern medicine. I got to hug this friend who is a walking miracle because of the absolute goodness of God. It's undeniable, unexplainable that the Lord has healed one of our friends medically, and it does not make sense. You know, I get to look and see the marriage that actually they should not in reality be together, but because of God and because of other believers coming around them, encouraging them, pouring into them, equipping them, like they're still together and they're thriving. And I could go on and on and on. You know, the baby crying in the back of the sanctuary that that parent prayed for for years, and they had other people in their small group lifting their arms up, keeping them going. Like when it looked like that was never gonna happen, that's a miracle. And there's just something about seeing that on a Sunday, seeing that in person. It's different when you can read about it in a blog or hear about it somewhere, but when you get to wrap your arms around that. Like, come on, there's nothing like it.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Yeah. I love the body of Christ. I really do. And you know, it makes me think of Ephesians. You know, I didn't I wasn't really sure if I was going to share this scripture, but this scripture here, this is so important. Like the bride of Christ that he's coming back for is the body of Christ. It's it is the local church and the global church all at once. And I love the language that we find in Ephesians chapter five. It talks about this marriage, right? And I'm just gonna jump on this real quick. It's verse 25. It says, Um, as so husbands love your wives, and this is where the beauty of Christ and the church really kicks in. As Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of the word, that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing. That right there, that washing of the word, that coming together in person, that's him sanctifying us. That is him helping us as we flesh out what is still in us and him, you know, making us more into this beautiful, holy, set-apart bride for him to receive without spot or wrinkle, all those wonderful things. I just love it. And um 28, in the same way, husbands should love their wives as I love this right here, as their own bodies. Lean in, because this is where it's so good. He who loves his, he who loves his wives, love or loves his wife, loves himself. Verse 29, for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it just as Christ does the church. We need to cherish our church, the people in our church. Listen, husbands and wives, there are many opportunities for offense in our house behind closed doors, misunderstandings, hurt feelings. And those are two people who have committed to union together. How much more will that kind of stuff happen in the church with people you're not in covenant with? Yeah. Come on. Yeah. So we need to cherish the body of Christ. And just like Christ gave himself for the church, this is our savior who gave himself. And we want to give ourselves for the church. We want to love the church, we want to draw out the best in each other. And many times it's us showing up in the gifts of the spirit. I love the gift of prophecy because it's modern prophecy, because it's not, it's not Old Testament prophecy. I'm talking about new believers with the Spirit of God, where we're literally calling out the things of God in each other. The kings and queens, the restored, the redeemed, the healed, the set free, the confident. Amen. We're calling that out. We're affirming you are love to the lonely that walks in and says, I don't have a family. Yes, you do in Christ. I don't have an identity. Yes, you do. Let me show you who it is, what it is. You know, that's what the body is for. So I love, I love hugging on our people. And you know what? Honestly, sometimes when um strife happens in the church, we're lead pastors now. And um we're so sometimes when strife happens now, me and my husband will pause and we'll just say, you know what? This is a sign that our church is growing because the people are touching and there's conflict, and they're coming to us because they want to do it right. Yeah. They don't want to just close the door and say, I'm leaving, which a lot, you know, there's a lot people get hurt, but there is a blessing in remaining and pursuing peace, if at all possible, on your part, on my part. Yes, right? That's our job. Just like you were saying, I'm not, you know, I'm not responsible for them, but I'm responsible for me and how I show up. So it's just a reminder that, hey, when conflict hits, it's okay. We're human and we can do it God's way. We can figure a way through it because the Holy Spirit is there to help us. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Yeah. You touched on so many things there. I mean, my goodness, we could go on forever, but just the you know, the thought of obviously number one offense, but also being the church. People sometimes I think, especially if you haven't really served the church, like if you've been one who attends, there's something about getting in the weeds. Like there's something about, you know, if there's a ministry that you feel like needs to happen, or a small group, you know, maybe uh a type of group of people that need a small group to attend, like being that. Because I think there's something too, once you start doing ministry, and like there's so many different types of ministry. Not not everybody needs to be on stage and be the lead pastors to be a minister, right? But like once you start pouring out and you start ministering, I have found that your eyes actually are less prone to see what's wrong and to see all of the offensives. And like, yes, some people are wired to naturally see things and make them better. Like, that's not being critical, that's not, you know, just being judged or judgmental or negative. Like some people can walk into a room and they're able to see what needs to be fixed. But I also like, you know, for the person who sits back and and they're like almost like a consumer of church rather than like helping to build it. I think people, you know, I wish that they could just grasp the fact that once you get into the church and and I'm not saying for every brand new believer, but like once you've been there for a while, it's time to strap up your boots. It's time to figure out like where the church needs you and how not just not just to fill a hole, you know, if if you don't like kids, well, don't serve in Sunday school, please. For real. But but what has God equipped you to love and to be passionate about? There's a purpose in that, and He did it so that you could be a part of the body, because it might be that, you know, your whole church is missing an arm because that whole part of the body is not serving. They're just coming on Sundays and then leaving and racing, you know, to be the first in line at brunch. And so we need the believers serving in person to make the body function, or else the church is missing a whole leg and it's lopsided.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

I love that you say that because that really is what happens. People listen, all of us deal with this. That it is inconvenient, you know, like you were saying earlier, that question of like, you know, how do you talk to the person that feels like it is convenient to be planted in the body of Christ? Well, it is, and the Lord knew that, and he actually gave us a scripture in Hebrews that talks about that. So Hebrews chapter 10, and it says, verse 24, let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together as is in the habit of some, but encouraging one another all the more as we see the day drawing near. I know you're if you're listening, you see the day drawing near. And the word even talks about how the body of Christ, all the parts working together for the effective work of the body. The body can't be effective when there is a hand or a foot or a toe or a heart out of place. Your local church can't be as effective as it could be because you keep resisting being a part of the body. You want to be a hand over in an you want to be a hand, but you want to be disconnected from the body. No, bring that hand to the body of Christ. Ask the Lord to help you so that you can be part of the body, connected just like the vine. You know, we can't bear fruit outside of Christ. If we're not connected to the vine, right, then we're dead outside of Christ. Yeah. But connected to the vine, just like the same thing, our work alone outside of the body of Christ. Yes, God can use us, but he's called us to be the body of Christ, and that people will actually know we're his we're his people by the love we have for one another. Yes, not just the easy people, not just the people we click with, but one another, the body of Christ. And so, ma'am, if if you're listening in right now, just like Crystal said, strap up your boots, whatever your offenses, whatever your fear is, whatever your lack is, press in, take it to your heavenly father. You're Jesus is your high priest, girl. He is gonna intercede, he's interceding for you. Every time you pray to the Father, you can boldly go to the throne of grace and bring whatever it is, and he will help you in your time of need. Like, don't reject the very thing that Jesus gave himself for, the bride. He gave himself for you and me. We make up the body of Christ, amen. So let's give ourselves for what he gave himself for. Like, ugh. I'll I want to encourage people with this too.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

I could keep on this two.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

I can keep going.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

I want to I want to encourage people with this. A friend of mine shared this the other day. She's like a mentor to me. She we we do a Bible study called freedom, and it's really just life-changing. I don't know how to say it other than that. And she was my freedom leader. Amen. And Miss Kathy, I I love her. I she's one who, like, you know, when I see her name pop up on my phone, like I instantly just smile. I know I'm about to be encouraged. And so we're talking the other day, and she reads to me this verse in the Gospel of John. And I love the Gospel of John. I feel like I'm pretty well read in the Gospel of John. And she reads this verse to me. And it kind of shone, shine, shone, shine, shine a new light on it. Because I want to encourage the person who thinks like they've they've just kind of stayed on the fringes, either on an online community, or maybe they're coming in person, but they've stayed back because they're so scared of getting hurt. But let me read this, and I think it's going to be an encouragement. This is in John 2 and 23. And he writes, Because of the miraculous signs Jesus did in Jerusalem at the Passover celebration, many began to trust in him. So these are believers. But Jesus did not trust them because he knew all people. No one needed to tell him about human nature, for he knew what was in each person's heart. Okay, so Jesus knew and he knows what's in people's hearts. We don't necessarily know, but we are shown through their actions, loving or maybe unloving. And of course, again, humans. A loving person makes a mistake, they repent, they try to make it right, they come to you right. But what I'm trying to say is for the person who has just stayed far away in order to protect themselves, even Jesus didn't let everybody have full access to him. And you can walk into church with that security. You don't have to be everybody's best friend, you don't have to serve on every team, you don't have to have dinner with every single person just because they go to your church, right? Like this, I hope that it's coming across as encouraging because we can get in the mindset of I just have to be this happy person who loves everybody, who is everybody's best friend, and that's being the good church girl. And sure, we love everybody. There's no question about that, but not everybody gets full access. And the Holy Spirit lives inside of us. He can guide us, he can give us wisdom, he can show us things, people can show us their true colors, and and then we get to decide how much access they have to us. So don't think that you're gonna just have to jump in the deep end and allow people to hurt you over and over and over. It's one thing if they apologize, but if they don't, they don't have to continue getting access to you, even if they are part of your church body.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

That is so good. And I and I I love that you shared that. And I want to just say this too that you do not need to have closure to be faithful. And so many times we are looking to have closure. And one of the things I would just say to anyone listening in, our flesh wants to tell us we have to have closure and have to everything has to be perfect before we can be faithful. But the reality is that you do not need to have closure to be faithful to your savior, to be faithful in your local body, to be obedient. And that's one of those things that the flesh will hold on to and stop you from being faithful because of people. You know, if you earlier in the book, I put I wrote this little, like, I don't know if it's like a poem or whatever, but some sort of like thing that I wrote, maybe more of a statement. And you know, we can't give up on the church because people are still being sanctified. Yeah. You know, we people are, we are being sanctified, and we have to remain compassionate. And I I love that, you know, Jesus is constantly saying things like, you know, be understanding, be someone who's known that you're a reasonable person, you know, be sober-minded, be watchful, be aware. Like, don't just give in to your flesh. The flesh wants to be offended, it wants to stand its ground and say, I was really hurt, and because I was really hurt, I can't be faithful. And that is just the biggest lie from the pit of hell. Think about Jesus. If he believed that, he would never have gone to the cross for us.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

But he did not hold on to offense. He's unoffendable, unoffendable. Go to your savior to be healed.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

And the great thing about us being sanctified and us, you know, becoming more like Christ. Remember, we're given the Holy Spirit. That's a really important thing. And the Holy Spirit and a new created spirit, that means that we are able to discern things and people's intentions by the spirit of God. So many times people try to discern things by the flesh. Why don't you start trying to discern things by the spirit of God?

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Gosh, this is just so good. Okay, one more thing I wanted to ask you for for the moms listening. You know, I talk to women often, and I've never talked to a mom who was like, I don't want my kids in church. I don't want my kids, I don't want my kids to know the Bible. But I talked to a lot of moms who are like, Oh, yeah, I take my word. Even like I, you know, I know women who are like, I want my kids to go to Christian school because I want them to know the Bible, but they can neglect themselves. We do it all the time as moms. I I saw it. Yes. I walked, I worked as a dental hygienist for years, and I would come in after years, they would bring their kids over. I finally found time for myself, right? Like we do it in every way. But we kids for checkups, go get your checkups, like practical things. But also we need church as much or more than our children. If we're going to make a priority to figure out how to get our kids to every youth group, to every youth conference, to everything that we think they need, the best Bible studies and all of the things, we need it too. Like we are pouring out into them. So if you would encourage the mom reason, feels like she is putting herself aside and and pouring into the kids and making sure that they're getting their spiritual growth. Can you encourage the mom who needs that for herself? Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

I I'm gonna tell you two versions of me. I love that you brought this up. And I have a I have a big testimony about this actually. So when I got saved and we got married, we'd had our first son, Noah, he's 14 now. And, you know, I was in church, right? Busy doing the things of the Lord, but I was a believer that showed up with a lot of walls and I hid behind behind all the tasks that I did, all the things for the Lord that I did. And so it was really easy for me to like put my hand to the house, but also be totally separated from the house. And I grew up in this, you know, this environment of, you know, contributing. If you don't contribute, you don't have value. And so I would just contribute as much as I could so that I could have value. Yeah, which again is another lie. And it created a lot of like unhealthy things in me. So I'm at home and my son is watching me, watching me throw myself to tasks, please everybody in my life, do everything for everyone else while neglecting my spiritual life, taking him to church, yeah, telling him to pray, yeah, you know, showing up for everybody else. And then, you know, God did a big work in my life. And I again, like that happened, but I did not see the fruit of what it was gonna bear later on until I had kids later and until I grew. And so now I have, now he's 14. I have an 11-year-old and a five-year-old. And my my life is fundamentally different than it was because I've been freed from that identity crisis that I had of that contributing gave me identity, you know, gave me purpose, gave me value, all this stuff. Amen. And so I am able to be present now in a way I never was, and being present, I've been able to be in the word and care for my spiritual health, my closeness, my proximity to the Lord. And by valuing that first, okay, by putting my air mask on on the plane, right? First before trying to get everybody else covered with a mask, my daughter, who's 11 now, and my little five-year-old wake up with me and get their Bibles, and they sit next to me in the quiet, and we read and we study. So much so that my little my daughter has her own uh what does she call it? WTG or TWG, Time with God journal. And she sits alone now in her room because she's watched me and because my actions have produced what my words were saying.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

And that's what's so important for us to live disciplined, consistent lives. Because when our children watch us, if they just see everything we say or hear everything we say, but we're not producing the same thing, yeah. In them, they're not able to rationalize truth there because two things aren't adding up. They're saying, mom is saying something, but she's not living it. I don't know what this means. It doesn't create, it doesn't create a strong, a strong belief in them. Instead, it actually creates an inconsistent belief in them, like, ah, I don't really know. So they can't ever be confident in it, versus a parent who lives a consistent, steady, disciplined life, not busy, don't get me wrong, because so many people think like I have to be doing all these things. No, that's the biggest lie. The world is gonna teach your kids hustle. You don't need to. You need to teach them how to slow down and be in the presence of the Lord and how to wait. And the more we can do that, the better we're gonna set our kids up for success. So at first, I was so sad that man, I didn't do this for my first son, right? But God is so good, He's redeeming that in my son. And now my son's seeing that in me now, and he's hungering for it. God's helping him where I missed it. God has come in and restored it. And so I just want to encourage you. Maybe you missed it like I missed it. You weren't present, you were hustling, you're doing all these things. But man, slow down, be present, be consistent, be steady. You do it first before you get. If you want your kid to go to a conference, you better make sure you're at a conference.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

I love that you made the point of like letting your kids see you. You know, we were taught maybe that we have to have this quiet time by ourselves, just us and Jesus and our Bible. And there's there's a purpose in that. I I like to study by myself when I can focus. But back when it was cold, I was sitting by our fire one morning reading my Bible. And Lottie, our three-year-old, came in and she saw me reading my Bible. She said, Oh, I'm gonna go get my Bible. So she grabbed a book. It was just any book, you know. And so she comes and sits by me and she starts reading. And like even the seeds of that as she grows, she'll she'll know what her real Bible is. She'll know the purpose of sitting and studying that and and knowing like that your day is different when you've started out that time with the Lord. And so, but like you said, if they don't see us doing it, then how will they know? So I love this. I I love the encouragement. I hope. And I just believe already that women are going to be encouraged about how much they need their local church, how much their local church also needs them, not in a way of striving, like you were saying. You we gotta, we gotta let the Holy Spirit show us that because we don't have to show up and prove anything to the Lord, but it's a get-to attitude. We get to show up to church and use these gifts and everything that he's placed inside of us before there was even an us. He had a plan through, you know, like the Bible says, that that he predestined these things, that he before he even created us in our mother's womb, that he had these things and these gifts in us. So would you pray for the women before we go today? I know you love to pray, and I would love for you to just bless them with that.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

Absolutely. Heavenly Father, you are just so wonderful. And we just lift you up. We give you all the glory. And really, that's what the church is here for, to bring glory to you, to point people to heaven, to our Savior. So we just first of all thank you for all the local churches represented listening, wherever that is globally. Father, we thank you for our local church and the local church at large. I thank you for the individual that has leaned into this conversation and already the things that the Holy Spirit is revealing. Lord, I thank you that they would find time and make time to dig into that with you, Lord, maybe for some healing, for refreshment, for strengthening, for eyes and ears to be opened, for a mission to come back and awareness of our mission to go therefore out into the world to make disciples and baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and what, you know, loving one another really looks like and how that brings you glory. So, Father, I thank you that, Lord, you'd keep all these incredible women from the evil one and that their faith would remain in you as they're stepping into the local body, as they're fleshing out what is still in them, as you're sanctifying them. I thank you that they appreciate how time is a revealer. And I'm just so thankful for your patience and your long suffering. And so I just thank you that these women would give that same kind of patience and long suffering and grace to those around them as they show up. And Lord, we just thank you for our local church. Thank you that healing would abound and revelation that each woman listening to this, Father, would you give her a burden for her local church? Would you teach her how to cherish her local church? And Lord, would you help her show up fully equipped, fully confident, unashamed, unoffendable in the name of Jesus? Amen.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

Amen. Thank you so much. I love you, friend. This has been an awesome conversation.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

Likewise, you're just amazing. I am so honored to be on this call with you, this podcast, and love everything you're doing the same way. I feel so lit up every time we hop on a call, very encouraged, so moved. And I love it because you do always stir me on to love and good work. So I love you so much. And uh it was so nice to be here. Thank you, friend.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Thank you all so much again for tuning in. Of course, this episode is part of the motherhood series. And I do want to give you an update on the conference. Talking to the nonprofit last week, Virtue by Design, their board has decided that they want to postpone the conference. We're not calling it off, but we are going to postpone it until the spring. And I'll just share with you why. Um, and be fully transparent. We were able to work with the venue, and they were so kind to give us a really discounted fee, but that would mean that we have to do it during the week. And after feedback from you guys, we're finding out that those dates and working during the week just didn't align with your schedules. And I get it. So we want this to be for you. We want the conference to serve you, we want the conference to equip you. I actually want it to. I'm really looking forward to the message and the speakers and and what's going to be shared there because I need it. So we're going to postpone it. We're looking out into the spring. We don't have any definite dates yet. But uh the best way to stay in touch because the algorithms are wonky. I can't promise that social media will get it to you like I wish it would. But go to the website therooedministry.com. There you will see right on the homepage, you'll see a place to sign up to receive emails. And through that, I can promise you that you will get updates and you will get information. So I love you guys. Stay in touch. I'm thankful for you. I think I have the greatest listeners in the whole world, and I'm so thankful for you.