Trauma Queen
"The Trauma Within" is a weekly podcast hosted by Jimanekia, a Trauma and Sexual Assault expert, queer media consultant, and comprehensive sex educator. Join us as we normalize conversations about life's most challenging experiences, from sexual assault to mental health and beyond. Discover stories of resilience, expert insights, and a safe space for discussing some of life's most complex topics. Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/traumaqueen/support
Trauma Queen
The Trauma Within Balancing Creativity and Mental Health W/ RJ City
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Do you have any questions, any comments about the episode? Jimanekia would love to hear from you!
Do you ever find yourself longing for the ignorance of youth or wincing at a well-meant compliment? Join us as we sit down with actor, writer, and media personality RJ City, who hilariously reveals his discomfort with praise and his morning routine geared towards outrunning anxiety. From the beauty of ignorance to the calming productivity that soothes his soul, RJ shares his unique and often amusing perspectives on life.
Throughout our conversation, RJ opens up about the trials of balancing creativity with mental health, and the shift from the idealism of youth to the pragmatic realism of adulthood. We navigate the nuances of being labeled a "passive aggressive alpha male" and delve into cultural perceptions of politeness and rudeness. With personal anecdotes and a generous dose of wit, RJ sheds light on the importance of humor in dealing with vulnerability and maintaining mental well-being.
Finally, we explore the intriguing parallels between wrestling and comedy, the concept of cancel culture, and the significance of community bonds and self-celebration. RJ’s reflections on family dynamics, legacy, and the role of humor in navigating human susceptibility will leave you chuckling and contemplating all at once. Tune in for a whirlwind of laughter, reflection, and genuine moments that promise to entertain and inspire.
Thank you all for listening. Set a boundary with yourself this week, set a boundary with someone else. If someone else does not respect that boundary. LET THEM LOOSE YOU! Stay hydrated internally and externally. We do not have an ashy family.
IG: @The_Trauma_Within
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thetraumawithin
Jimanekia Ig: @Jimanekia
fabulous. I listen y'all, we'll see how this goes. My, my good friend here is going to bring all kinds of things and I don't know what's happening. They don't know what's happening, and so my first question to let me.
Speaker 2Let me tell you what's unfair. No, I want to tell you what's unfair about this. Why? That you're recording the intro separately and that I won't be able to hear it, and that you're gonna do it after this.
Speaker 1I might even do it today, so I'm gonna get one of those.
Speaker 2What an interesting guy. And I'm gonna have to hear it when the episode goes up and I'm gonna have to deal with your reaction to it after, when it's too late well, you know why is because I'm probably gonna talk you up and you're gonna hate it, right.
Speaker 1And so why do you want to sit through the uncomfortableness?
Speaker 2I, I enjoy picking it apart, okay. Well then, fine it. You know what? No, I don't, you don't, I'm just telling you, I just I enjoy it.
Speaker 1So okay, well, you sent me a two-line bio. You ready to pick it apart?
Speaker 2yeah, are you gonna?
Speaker 1read that okay great, great, okay, listen everyone. This is the reason that I have my own show is because we do what we want. So we're going to introduce this person now and then we're going to get into the information, because this one is special, all right, all right, everyone. Today we have the one and only the one and only RJ City, whom is an actor, writer and bitter media personality. He hosts AEW's hey you, along with a variety of other programs that he refuses to accept praise for. And when I tell you you enjoy this human's work all the time and get a little cackle, a little giggle, you do. This human's work all the time and get a little cackle, a little giggle, you do. And this person doesn't accept all the praise. But today I will praise them and they will have to accept it. So my first question to you, sir RJ City, is who are you what?
Speaker 2Why should I know that and why do I need to know that? Why do I need to know who I am? And also, who I was a week ago is different than who I am today.
Speaker 1Well, that's why I'm asking who you are today.
Speaker 2Well, I would say in what capacity.
Speaker 1In the capacity that you're currently sitting here in.
Speaker 2Yeah, but in what length do you want me to speak Emotionally, physically?
Speaker 1What do?
Speaker 2you got. Um, I did not have a nap today, so I'm I actually feel calm, so I feel a little like a little tired, but in a good way. Um, I like to get up early. I like to get up Cause you're old, no, because I feel like I can get up before my anxiety and I can actually get some work done.
Speaker 1So you beat your anxiety in the mornings.
Speaker 2Yeah, from like six to ten. Okay, it's a pretty good window of like my brain is on enough to do work, but not so on Like I feel like I would benefit from. I'm speaking in grand terms here, but like a lobotomy, Like I wish I had less of my brain.
Speaker 1Oh, I get that yeah. That sounds heavy and interesting in the morning, yeah.
Speaker 2I get jealous of people who are less aware than I am. Oh yeah, Ignorance is bliss. Yeah, and I find it I find it very freeing to go to um. One of the things I like to do is like go to museums, small town museums when we're on the road and we're doing shows, and go, look at this guy ripping tickets. He is no, he's not worried about what anyone thinks, he's not thinking about himself at all. He, I ripped the tickets. People come in, I ripped the tickets and I'm like isn't?
Speaker 1that zero fucks about you beautiful.
Speaker 2No, and he will never know me, he will never think about me, and it's fantastic, yeah so how do we? Meet how well at work or before that, I don't know, I don't know. Did we meet before that? I don't think so. Maybe not, but you had known of me. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And what did you know exactly?
Speaker 1I knew that you were an amazing writer, an amazing creator. I thought you were funny, yeah. Also, I looked at old wrestling videos because I like to know who's around me, right? So you know, I just like to do a little research and also because you like to have interesting conversations with people to find your own humor, so that also is entertaining for me.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah. But then we met at work. Yes, we caught when a colleagues that the word that's not the word.
Speaker 1I mean we work at the same place. No, my colleague is a little man named Dr Reese who I'm also friends with. Yeah yeah, yeah, he's a lovely little human he's a sweet man yeah, did you have more to add to who you were today, after you gave me your spiel about how you don't want to talk about who you were? No, I feel calm.
Speaker 2I I guess if, if who are you today is, I did some writing, yeah can't wait to hear it. Yeah, I feel okay today.
Speaker 1Okay, we'll receive that. I think okay is a great place to be.
Speaker 2Oh, that's like a yeah, it doesn't happen often. Yeah, I was like what it's more like? Huh, I feel okay. Today it's a surprise to me that I feel okay. Let me put it that way it's because you're at home today. Yeah, it's because I got work done today. It's because you're at home today.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's because I got work done today. Productivity what?
Speaker 2does trauma mean to you? Not that much. I feel like it's very overused and that bothers me. I get bothered by things like, for example, yoga or soy milk, that once it's mass marketed to people, it becomes useless. And now I can't tell. I can't go take a yoga class and know and know if it's good or not. There's so much of it. The same way, you can't drink soy milk now because there's a million companies are making it. You don't know if it's good or bad or anything.
Speaker 2I also feel that way about a CrossFit. Uh, well, because the CrossFit is dangerous. Well, yeah, but I'm saying sometimes you could go to CrossFit and you have someone who knows what they're doing. Or you get a guy who just, you know, saw a YouTube video, said I can do it stoicism. I feel the same way about, the same way about okay, um. So trauma feels like a real overused term to me. I've had, um, I guess it's. I don't want to say it's not something I believe in, but I've had experiences that I only realized much later were traumatizing. So I feel like it's something I don't often feel in the moment because of how I'm wired. I'm a worst case scenario person. My brain likes to worry about the unknown and what could go wrong and to create horrible scenarios. So when bad things happen, I'm almost relieved.
Speaker 1Is it because it gives like like my gut was right, I knew that shit was gonna be shit?
Speaker 2Yeah, well, first of all, when push comes to shove, I feel like I'm a capable person, handling those situations like calmly, rationally. Rarely do I look back and go, I overreacted. I usually do a good job handling the situation. And then also that part of my brain is allowed to shut off that worries about it and there's like, well, there's nothing to worry about because we have to deal with it do you raw dog life um, no, I, to be honest with you, I, if anything, I double bag it and I'll say I'll say you know what?
Speaker 2why don't I just masturbate?
Uncovering Personal Struggles and Motivations
Speaker 1okay, so you like to. So, for those that aren't understanding where I'm going with this, are you medicated, do you?
Speaker 2oh, that's what you mean. Do you show up?
Speaker 1oh my god and rj said I like to just live life raw, just no, I don't like to live life.
Speaker 2What are you talking about? I said the opposite. Well, I didn't know what you meant by rodo.
Speaker 1Yeah, I guess I do rodo um?
Speaker 2I take supplements. I don't not interested in taking medication. I feel like the issues I have can be solved through thought, through more thought. I feel like I can find my way out of that maze, and I also. There are plenty of things that I am proud of, that I do and can produce, and I'm afraid of compromising those things by taking medication.
Speaker 1Artist brain Got it. You don't want to fuck it up. So before you got to this older fancy gentleman that's in front of us what was baby rj like, like what was? It's giving smart ass.
Speaker 2So yeah, I mean, I feel like I was almost exactly the same. There was a lot of singing and dancing and old things going on what just would not shut up. There's a lot of home movies where I'm told to be quiet or to get out of the way, or the best one. Talk about trauma, me saying, hey, let's do a skit. Everybody Are you filming? And then my mother or father would say yes, as the camera slowly fades and shuts off and they're just holding it because they didn't want to waste the tape. So, yeah, I gotta deal with that now.
Speaker 1Um yeah, seems like a.
Speaker 2Thing baby or jay, was that very hopeful, very big believer in the magic of life?
Speaker 1Very Disney.
Speaker 2Very Disney, but also like very, very reverential to figures, old wrestlers and people and comedians and people who knew stuff, and I was really big into that. And then the second half of my life has felt like an unlearning of that. Sure, yeah, a real like oh, everyone is no better or worse than you. Yeah, they barely know anything. At no point will you get it, you just age and kind of stay the same. So, yeah, it's been a lot of, especially in wrestling it's been.
Speaker 1It's been like oh wow that guy I idolized was an idiot. Yeah, yeah, wow, I mean sure it's true.
Speaker 2It's true because they're just people, sure and it's maybe not even their fault that they were presented as not an idiot no, we put them on these pedestals and and believed it. Because they're characters Right. So it's been a real leveling out experience, I think around 22 to 25. I became a lot more disappointed. I was very angry that the messaging I was given as a child Did not hold true. What?
Speaker 1messaging.
Speaker 2Wrestling-wise and life-wise. Oh, okay, you know you're like I took everyone's advice on what to do and this kind of sucks, you know. And then for a while I was such a big believer in my plans and then they didn't work out and then I ended up really going through life without a plan and that seemed to work for me.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think there's parts we're skipping. I feel like a lot of the because now we're in present day and I feel like there's a lot that happens when we are in our later teens, when our brains start to go wait, what the fuck? And then in our 20s.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1And as someone who I always ask individuals what they want to talk about, and when I say the list was thick the ideas were flowing in this human and I thought the combination of talking about being chosen and the anxiety as a motivator is something that a lot of us go through. And so you didn't just wake up as a 20 something with like, oh, these are my struggles. So when was the first time you noticed or can think back to, when you felt like you were struggling or wanting to be chosen?
Speaker 2I would say very, very early on, like grade school, I enjoyed doing plays and things of that nature, sports and things. Not that I always had to be the best, but I wanted my own thing. In the fifth grade my teacher knew enough to give me my own weekly show in front of the class. Okay, I got whatever it was five, 10 minutes every Friday and I worked on it depressingly similar to the way I work now.
Speaker 1I was like wow, I feel like I'm at present day with you.
Speaker 2So when I say nothing's changed, I really mean that there's that stress of, oh, what am I going to do? I got to do the show. I don't have to do the show. No, what? What would happen if I said, hey, I don't really feel like doing this today? You'd say, okay, no problem, she's not gonna say we have, we have affiliates who need you. But that is the pressure I guess I enjoy putting myself under. I have a compulsion to do those things. Yeah, so I have to get it done. I feel like I'm a I will also say, as someone who was out of work in my chosen fields for quite some time, I feel like I'm a much better person. When I'm able to do those things, I have a certain energy that needs to go somewhere, and when it doesn't go somewhere, it's not fun to be around. What do you do with it? I don't, I don't. I try to create that work. So I've realized like, oh, I can't just sit with it, like I can't just be an annoying bartender.
Speaker 1I have to just make stuff, you know when you don't get that. So there's this. I have a lot of canadian friends and y'all are so nice or passive or whatever. Is that a stereotype?
Speaker 2yes, because I find I mean, I'm from Toronto and I find the majority of people here very rude and I find them rude in a passive way- Okay, so we're back to passive. We're back to passive, although I I'm well. No, I'm not passive, I'm passive, aggressive is difference.
Speaker 2Well well, there is a difference. I mean, yeah, passive in the sense that like sometimes I go to a restaurant or some anything like that, and I'm like I'm just waiting there forever and I'm like does anyone want any of my money here today at all? We're gonna, we're gonna keep this train running.
Speaker 1I think that's. The interesting part, though, is when we're able to identify these things about ourselves. Like you're, like I'm, past no passive aggressive aggressive. How did you figure out you're passive aggressive? Did somebody tell you, yes, I dated a girl for two weeks.
Navigating Vulnerability and Acceptance
Speaker 2Oh uh, when. When was this? I was in university, maybe? Uh, very nice, good, good person, healthy you ever have, like a good. Even though it was two weeks, nothing bad happened. It was like a good, healthy. Yeah, this is not, and I don't, I can't even remember the reason why, but I remember her telling me that I'm a passive aggressive alpha male and I went ah an alpha male.
Speaker 2Yeah, oh, come on massive aggressive alpha male meaning okay. So perfect example, eddie Kingston. We know, we know about EK. Okay, maybe an alpha male, right? Okay, got to be loud and beat his chest and oh, what's on my mind? And I'm you know whatever. So when we interact, he's the first to make a comment. I am never the first to make a comment. I am never the first. No, he has the compulsion to be the first and to set the tone. But what I will do is the passive aggressiveness is wait for him to put his cards down and then comment on his cards. Uh-huh, um. So then, yeah, I can't make the first move. I'm not a first move person. I love making the second move. Second move is amazing is it?
Speaker 1is it the anxiety? Is it the fear? Is it the placement? Is it like wanting to follow, like, where is it?
Speaker 2yes, I have a uh, probably a difficulty being vulnerable, right, putting your cards down. Setting the tone saying I want this is not my, my best. I have probably a difficulty being vulnerable, right, putting your cards down. Setting the tone saying I want this is not my best. I have difficulty starting those kinds of conversations. If someone wants to talk about them, then I can talk about them, but it's the starting that will just drive me insane. So someone like Eddie will run up to me and say rj, shitty or whatever, something cute, something cute, hug me.
Speaker 1And then I'll say you're dressed like a default grand theft auto character that's fair yeah I feel like this is actually something you would say right, and I would just walk by and be like well, here we are yeah are yeah, so that's that's.
Speaker 2Those are most of my interactions in the nutshell.
Speaker 1Vulnerability. It's one of my favorite things. Yeah, why do you run from her?
Speaker 2Well.
Speaker 1What's your relationship with her? I love using it.
Speaker 2I love using it in a work situation. When I do my show when I interview people.
Speaker 1I think Whose vulnerability.
Speaker 2Yours or theirs? Uh, both, but I don't. I'm not afraid to make myself vulnerable there, because it's funny, hmm.
Speaker 1You know, it's okay if it's a joke.
Speaker 2Yeah, well, yeah, there's a lot of things. Well, the goal of the show for me is to be funny. So a lot of things. Sure, it's just my job. I don't know, being being vulnerable is a lot for me. Yeah, I guess it's a lot for everyone. Um, although I used to be a very emotional child and I still I'm think I'm a still an emotional person I just get if I express it.
Speaker 1I feel like if I say I love you, I've somehow signed a binding contract that I cannot get out of how do you navigate existence if vulnerability is so scary, but, like the work, your art is so vulnerable, though, like everything you do is still very vulnerable yeah, but like in a hands.
Speaker 2Well, sunday mornings I have, I have coffee in my underwear. I mean, that's a little vulnerable, right right, and I like fielding uh comments and I like like this. You asked if I wanted to know what you wrote and I said no, that's somewhat of a vulnerability, you know, because and I enjoy that, because I it demands all of my attention.
Speaker 1I was like because then the anxiety won't pick up and start to think and follow up and create.
Speaker 2Yes, yeah so when I do my show, or when I do a stand-up or an improv show or whatever, I have no option but to completely focus on that. It's a thing that demands all of my focus.
Speaker 1Okay, what does acceptance mean to?
Speaker 2you, Can you? I like understanding, you know, and also I mean mean, if I'm accepting of another person.
Speaker 1You're saying what does acceptance mean to?
Speaker 2you. Oh my god, you know you can't act like it's like a. The answer is whatever you want it to be, it's very like the ending of a show okay what does acceptance to other people mean to you, then? Acceptance of other people.
Speaker 1With other people, like acceptance of you. What does that mean to you? What does that look like?
Speaker 2Oh, my God, I have a. Very Well, you're just respecting people's boundaries. I think that's really it. No, you went on mute. What are you doing? Are you making notes? No, this is not a psych session, I think it's. It's listening, understanding and respecting people's boundaries. I think that's it. It's like what works for you. I have a certain way I need to do shit yeah, do you feel accepted?
Speaker 2no, it depends, I mean, with certain people. Yes, um, I have a very out of whack, I guess, for most people work-life balance. So, yeah, it's crazy, yeah, it's fine. I'm doing a lot, I wanted to do a lot for a very long time and now it's happening and here I am. Uh, this is what I need to do in order to be happy. So there's people sacrifice. There's people from the life side who understand that peop, I have friends who are comedians and writers and they understand it. They've been through it themselves. And I have people who don't understand that because they're not from that. Yeah well, they want something else and that's fine. That doesn't make them better or worse than me, but yeah, and I should, I could probably also do a better job of understanding them to you know finding the nuance in between the struggles.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1Do you find that acceptance and needing to be chosen like that's something that you navigate in one part of your life, or is that just like in all aspects of your life?
Speaker 2It's in all aspects of my life. I and this is such a trivial paranoia when I leave a plane, when I disembark a plane, I always feel like the flight attendant does not like me as much as the person in front of me. Why? Because they will often get a good goodbye, thanks for flying with us, whatever. And then I get like a real half-assed one, a real shit, like have a nice day. It was really like under the breath and I'm like did I mean nothing to you? What did you get from the person in front of me that you didn't get from me today?
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2So I guess that's something that the need to be chosen feels like my default. You know, guess that's something that color the need to be chosen, feels like my default, you know I would love to give less of a.
Speaker 1Where does your anxiety in?
Speaker 2relation to that, like where do they collide? Well, and then I become very self-conscious and I go well, what did I do? That that one's very retroactive, obviously, except left. And now I'm walking up the ramp going. Did I do, yeah, do something? Is it because I just asked for water? It's because I didn't buy anything, too many fucking waters. You know, I should have done a hello, a real hello, you know, um, but my, but my anxiety is often forward thinking. In any situation of, oh, even if I have to go out with a friend, or what are they going to talk about? What's going to happen? Or if I email people, you know I have different things on the go. So, like Monday morning, I'll email like three different people about three different things and I'll hear nothing back in a reasonable amount of time. And my brain says, well, they've all had a meeting, they've had a cross project meeting without you and they decided not to email you back. Cut you out.
Speaker 1Yeah, of course Anxiety does that. It's such a fun game of you shit talking yourself and then spiraling and then being like, well, you should have figured this out. You're like, but I dug the hole and then covered myself.
Speaker 2But I feel like this is the natural consequence of having a good imagination. Sure, the same way they can say well, what do you want to do interviewing this person and I create these things that I believe in, and then they become reality. Yeah right, my brain will can also do that in a bad way. I've learned that nothing, nothing is good or bad. Things are just things, and often both duality duality, yeah, but oh, and also it's wouldn't be triality.
Speaker 1Sometimes they can be neutral well, okay, no, three sums for you, sure, sure, keep it fun, keep it spicy yes, um, and I also have not.
Speaker 2I don't like, uh, when people tell me that they're happy or that they're happy people.
Speaker 1What.
Speaker 2I have a problem with that.
Speaker 1Let's probably have that talk. Why don't you like happiness?
Speaker 2Because I feel like, not that I don't like happiness, I don't like the idea that people can be happy or be happy people. Why? Because happiness means.
Speaker 1Do you not believe in it?
Speaker 2Well, no, I. Why? Because happiness, do you not believe in it? Well, no, I don't. Because happiness is a stimulation. I don't think it's a way of being. It makes no sense. It's just the opposite of being. And I understand people are negative and whatever, but I feel like it's just the opposite end of that. It's just as shallow in the other way. So people that just try to be happy are like what?
Speaker 1Even the phrase be happy I find it incorrect. You did kind of like your body was like rejecting, even saying you're like happiness be happy gross, because it's just a feeling.
Speaker 2It's like saying I'm a hungry person. It's like, no, sometimes you're hungry and sometimes you're not.
Speaker 1Sometimes, you're thirsty.
Speaker 2Sometimes you're thirsty and sometimes you're not. You can't be thirsty all the time. That makes no sense. It's a feeling.
Speaker 1Now I'm thinking I'm like, I am happy, though, and you're like, are you?
Speaker 2You're not, you're not, you can, you're not, you're not, you can't be happy all the time. Oh, I didn't say I was happy all the time, no, but what I'm saying people are like I'm a happy person. It's like fuck you, like no, oh, okay you know what?
Speaker 1okay, let's reel it in, because I'm in agreeance, yeah, and this is probably. People are probably like there it is, he got her, yeah, but no, I don't think that that's a realistic state to be in. No, it's kind of like a new relationship, energy, yes, and you're like oh my god, I love you so much, I can't wait. Blah, blah. And then you're year two.
Speaker 2You're like I like you, yes, yes, and. And people are attached so much to the first feeling and they define the first feeling as the thing we need to have. The same way, they would define happiness in themselves as the thing they need to have, that when they suddenly don't, it's like the end of the world. And then they're just trying to keep this fucking ball in the air to stay happy. Why, why? First of all, why are we shutting out nice feeling? Yes, but to do it all the time is not like sex.
Speaker 1It's like sex. It's like eating. It's like addiction. Drugs, yes yeah.
Speaker 2Right, chasing the oxy, yeah, but that's not good. That's not good for the those chemicals. We don't, we're not supposed to have those chemicals all the time, or else we would have them all the time.
Speaker 1So what's your advice for the happy people?
Speaker 2First of all, there's other feelings out there. I think I would say, though and I've learned this as someone who would have highs and then lows and be really upset with the lows because I had the highs Peace is not a bad thing, peace is great. You can be a calm person, period. I think that's pretty flat. Are you calm? I need to be. I know you know what, in in the stress, in the stressful environments, I am a calm person. I don't feel like I add to it. I'll give you that.
Speaker 1I'll give you that. I'll give you that. But what does your anxiety look like? Like when you like, when you know it's active, like how does it show up?
Speaker 2Physically it does not manifest, which is great, and it's probably from being able to perform. A lot of times I'll do stand up or host something and and no one can tell that I'm horribly nervous or that I didn't enjoy it. If something goes wrong and rarely can people tell Sure, there's a burning inside. Is it in your gut, it's in my gut and also in my chest? It's like above my heart. If I could just sort of locate it, that's where we hold it, yeah, and there's just a feeling of light. Lightness and not in a good way of like you're not a real human being, you're not firmly planted, you're not, like, confident in what you're doing sounds like you're dissociating a little bit probably yeah, yeah, that's probably probably what that would.
Speaker 2Look at us throwing in psych words I also have to go through. You know, let's say I'm having a business meeting or something. I would really have to put myself through a few worst case scenarios to comfortably enter that meeting. Sure, yeah. And then of course, unrealistic worst case scenarios which I'm sure take a toll on my body.
Speaker 2They do yeah, absolutely, absolutely, because I was actually just like here about it and and here, yeah, I like it I mean to bring the shit that was dye your hair, you that, what? That artificial color black like I'm. The funds look horrible horrible I would judge you out loud. It came in in a commercial way quite frankly, it's kind of cute.
Speaker 1I'm telling you I wish mine did, like the little bang gray. Yeah, can't have it all no, and you chose question yes's going to say green too, because we're trying to bring in money Awareness helpful or harmful?
Speaker 2Very helpful, well, so it depends. Obviously. Think you need a healthy. You can't if you have too much. I'm hyper aware and sometimes that will prevent me from getting things done. The less I know about certain things sometimes, the better. That would be very. Yeah, sometimes it can be a barrier.
Exploring Self-Judgment and Kindness
Speaker 1I guess it's what you do with that awareness. Sure, that was my next question Like because you are someone that is doing unlearning things. That already tells me that you're like looking back and being like maybe that wasn't for me. And sometimes, when we go back, do you find that your awareness brings any shame or guilt? Yes, in what way?
Speaker 2Oh well, I don't understand what you're saying. Say it again, Rephrase this.
Speaker 1Sure, I, sure can I, I have other words. So when you are starting to do like the reflection work yeah, and you're. You said you're like unlearning things, right, which I think. As a good human, we unlearn a bunch of shit and so when you are unlearning things, sometimes I look back and I'm like, oh fuck, like I should have known better, and I start to like shame myself, oh, which then adds to an anxiety spiral. What does that look like for you?
Speaker 2So I am a judgmental person, I'm an observant person, I'm an aware person, but then I also like to sort them into good and bad, which is very wrong.
Speaker 1I thought things weren't good and bad.
Speaker 2Well, and that's why and it should stop it's not good, uh at all. Uh. So what happens is I will do that with myself, with my past, and I'm, you know, an unreasonable past. It's one thing to be upset about something you did last week, but when we're going I think past 10 years, you know, or real childhood shit, where it's me learning stuff sure I'm not kind to myself yeah really really not?
Speaker 1do you notice you being unkind to yourself more often in certain situations, like certain times of the year, like some people get triggered to be like meaner? Is it like work, projects? Is it relationships? Is it just like getting out of fucking bed? Like when are you the kindest and least kindest?
Speaker 2Um well, uh, yeah, I mean I'm, I'm kind, I'm not kind to myself in my work, which I think helps me do better work. Certain times I have to. I will write something and then I have to look back and I do have to edit my own work. I don't know how you could do that from a kind place. Sometimes you have to make choices, you know, in your work, especially creatively. If I write 10 pages of shit and I only need two pages, I really can't.
Speaker 1Kindness or honesty though.
Speaker 2Um, I like to get to the point of editing where I'm upset it hurts me to lose something, and that's where I know I've got, I'm getting somewhere good, I'm getting somewhere tight where I go oh my god, do I lose this, or do I lose this? And then I'm like, just when I'm like a little second inch about happiness, I go Okay, I think we've got something here. Um, and I don't mind saying, and I'm also, I would say, just as unkind to other people's work, but I wow, that's not true. Sometimes I should communicate it more, and I don't. I just feel it instead of communicating it, which is really bad you're just like that shit and you continue on well of like this should be 30 seconds shorter.
Speaker 2Sure you know, but I also am probably too kind to the person that Canadian yeah in telling them that and I feel I feel uncomfortable telling them that. So then the thing goes out and it's, quite frankly, 30 seconds too long. Then they have to like back up from it. Relationships, I'm too kind. Uh, I will put other people's feelings above my own, ultimately not in a good way it's normally not in a good way.
Speaker 1No, no, sacrifice yourself yeah, it doesn't.
Speaker 2It doesn't result in, uh, me being honest with myself, yeah, or with the other person you know, and then you feel, and you feel bad and you're also like, but I just wanted you to be okay and I guess like me or just not hate me, I don't know well, I think that's.
Speaker 1That's back to the whole conversation today needing to be chosen and like using the other parts as like motivators to like get through. Do you talk back to your brain Like when you're in these situations?
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean, I go around in circles.
Speaker 1Well, I heard the spiral, but, like in the, do you talk to the?
Speaker 2spiral. I've been getting better at it of you're. You are making this up. This is not remotely rooted in reality at all. This is based on what? Because scenarios will really just rob me of any joy and any. I will be thinking about things that I'm not dealing with yet and I'm like it's very unfair to think about what will happen next week when I still have this week to deal with. You know, I should put more of my effort on the dealing with the things that are in front of me, and I don't know if that's I wouldn't consider procrastination necessarily.
Speaker 1No, I look at it more as like a distraction sometimes. Wouldn't that be procrastination, not necessarily a distraction? I mean, procrastination is like putting off of something. Distraction is just like doesn't have necessarily just a direct intention, right.
Speaker 2A lot of times. I will very much not be in the room.
Speaker 1When did you start using humor as a cover up?
Speaker 2Okay, First of all. I don't know if it's humor as a cover up. I, okay, First of all. I don't know if it's used as a cover up. As if anytime I'm funny, I must be covering something up.
Speaker 1I also think a lot of honesty comes out In humor, yes, but it's also not direct.
Speaker 2No, it's's not direct, but I don't think you can be direct about a lot of stuff. Why? Because it's hurtful to people. Uh, it's a more digestible way of communicating the truth sometimes. Um, I had a friend say to me last week oh my god, you look fantastic. Since I've whatever, I haven't seen you in a month, you look great. And I think you look exactly the same they look they do. It was fine, it's fine, but it was a wrong.
Speaker 1It was like you know the humor of it is just a wrong thing to say you don't say sure, but it's also true yeah, I think we normalize a lot of like sugarcoating and that's why a lot of people can't handle actual conversations like we fuck ourselves.
Speaker 2Yes, and communication, because we're like yeah yes, so it's a good often seems like a good way to get the truth out. Sure, as, as opposed to distracting from the truth, it's like what if I put it in a little package and give it to you?
Speaker 1I used to use humor as a get back, like growing up in my family, the only power I had was sarcasm, right, and so it was like my tongue is so quick now? Yeah, because I it for survival. Did you ever use it for survival?
Speaker 2This certain side of the family my grandmother, my mother, and then that whole side, and then anyone outside of that had difficulty with how brutal it was. It was quite brutal. I guess there's no other. And I don't feel that way, you know, because I was a part of it, and then that's how I communicate with people. I love because I was a part of it, and then that's how I communicate with people. I love, yeah, um, but can be very, very mean, especially when you have enough, you know, bring enough girlfriends to meet your family, and then it suddenly doesn't work out.
Speaker 1you realize like, oh, maybe this is not for everybody is that a part of what you're unlearning.
Speaker 2Yeah, well it's. It's understanding other people's families and oh, you live with. You know, for me my family was the only way to live. Why wouldn't you want to live with my family? Like your family's fucking boring, like you know. Obviously you know, as you get older, you understand it's not the right way to think, probably, and you also think, you know maybe there's older. You understand this is not the right way to think.
Speaker 1probably, I don't know.
Speaker 2You also think, you know, maybe there's nothing wrong with a boring family.
Speaker 1I think there's honestly something true to that. Like the people that I like. Look at, my friends are like oh yeah, no, we have like these family dinners and gatherings and I'm like what? Yeah, no, we don't. Why Is that like a thing that people do? It seems nice.
Speaker 2Yeah, you don't get. You don't get together with anybody.
Speaker 1No, we do, but it's like we're not like sitting down for thanksgiving it's like we're at the house and everyone's in their own corner. Yeah, my cousins are taking a walk right. Uh, you know my mom's bitching in the kitchen like it's not, like it doesn't feel communal oh yeah, I'm, I'm. I would say I'm, I'm friends with my family oh, I would say they want to be friends with me.
Speaker 2But it's too late, right? I like I would say almost across all ages, we're like, really friends. So it does feel like you're hanging out as opposed to and I've gone to friends thanksgivings or christmases and you're like jesus uh, this feels a lot more fun and people will also say that my family is fun for that. For that reason, they're enjoyable to be around and if you can handle that kind of thing, so you wear a lot of hats.
Speaker 1Yes, a lot of them.
Speaker 2So many hats yeah, but I also feel like it's just, it's all the same shit, just in different directions.
Speaker 1I will agree, but sometimes you put a little extra spin on the things and there's so much shit that you do that people don't even know. It's you, no, which?
Speaker 2I think is and they don't need to, why not? Some jobs don't need credit, don't need credit, and some jobs are only good if people can't tell that you're doing them.
Speaker 1So how do you?
Speaker 2get accepted and get chosen for the cool things. If people don't know you're doing them, uh well, that's why I do many things, I mean I have my front facing stuff.
Speaker 2Sure, very clearly, this is me, this is all me. Nobody gives me notes like, hey, it's a good example. People rarely give me notes on anything, it's just I get 10 minutes with the person and basically whatever. When I ask them, I get to ask them, which is great. It's always a time, it's a time. And then when I do coffee and underwear, that's me Sunday mornings in my underwear, alone for an hour Just reading comments and talking back to comments. That's very like, hey, this is me. And then there's other things.
Speaker 2When you, I don't know, working with people on characters and developing stuff, I'm helping them own something. So me coming out and taking credit is like ludicrous to me. And if you can see that I, if you can see me in it, then I feel like I've not done a good job. Nor do I need the credit. I mean I, I, you know, let the front facing people own the stuff. I always. It's very frustrating to me when, like I do, I do work, or I'm handed a script or something's like sort of half-assed and how it's produced and the, the production, the people behind the scenes don't care and it's like buddy, it's my fucking name and my fucking face.
Speaker 2So I eat shit if it's bad, even if it's not my fault absolutely so by that same token, I feel like those, the people on camera, should be getting, uh, the rewards for that work fair enough.
Speaker 1How do you balance it all like? Do you have a system?
Speaker 2I don't you don't.
Speaker 1I know you didn't. I just wanted to ask you don't do a very good.
Speaker 2I will also say I mean, I have wanted to do so many things for so long and then they've all happened, not at once, but they are all on the go, different things and, like my rest from my main work is working on my other work, and I go oh, it's so refreshing to stop writing this and start writing this, but I also am very. You know, this is not a guaranteed line of work at all. The window is only open for a certain amount of time and I've always prioritized that and that's how I'm wired, that's how I feel comfortable.
Speaker 2The idea that I would take a week off is ridiculous. You need three, I know. But to do what? But I feel like that would be very hard for me.
Speaker 1Sure, I mean you need the first week to learn how to breathe and not pick up your phone and do stuff yes. Then the second week to tell yourself no, it's okay.
Speaker 2Then the third week to actually enjoy a little bit of time right, right, I, I, I just don't see that as being possible right now. I've not done enough work or made enough money to be like. You know, I always feel like I'm kind of drowning not not quite, my lungs aren't filling up, but I'm not quite being saved. You know, it always gets me to like the next, the next one you know what I mean. Like every so I do haze every Sunday and then they come out and I go, that's great. And then the next one begins. You know, the worry of the next one begins. It's just like another train I hop on which is you know whatever.
Speaker 2So I guess I can't get off that train it's like you're continuously chasing the high.
Speaker 1Is it like your drug?
Speaker 2yes, but sometimes I don't even know if it's a high. It's like this. The low is so bad that I'm just because sometimes, like especially when I read comments and on I would say, most of my work, I read all the comments.
Speaker 2Oh oh, oh, really, really all the comments, Reddit included, which, thank God, it seems positive, Like you should it. Yeah, well, whatever, okay, the negative comment. So this is me at neutral. You know the negative comments will bring me way down, but a positive comment will only just keep me at neutral, of course. Yeah, at no point am I experiencing the high. That's not. That's not true.
Speaker 2Some people will compliment me on my work. They do. A lot of people I'm saying a chosen few people will compliment me on something and I will feel great about it. Who, um, people, people where I feel like you have to earn the compliment. You have to work very hard. A lot of wrestlers are not, uh, very free with their compliment giving you know, which is fine. Who else? I even, even even my parents, I don't really, oh, that was good. Or they have a. I think not that they over compliment me, but you know, yeah, oh, that was. I'm trying to think of like, oh, that was really good. I like getting messages from people who I don't really know. Or there's people who I think are like cool, ben mankiewicz being one of those people who that's really insulting and as someone who, who works for a warner discovery affiliated company. You're going to be ashamed of yourself.
Speaker 1I'm kidding. No, I do, that's nice.
Speaker 2I was friends with Paul Rubens for like 15 years.
Speaker 1We had that conversation because one of my close friends was also really close with him Anytime.
Speaker 2He said something about my work was just like something that I would cling to and carry with me. So when I did get I I'm fairly criticized or did a bad job, I would go you're like got this look in my pocket and go, but he said, he said I was good yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1Do you ever make time to celebrate yourself?
Speaker 2not really celebrate myself. Yes, meaning what?
Speaker 1like. Repeating it back doesn't make it a thing, so, but give me an example of that. Yeah, what do you like? Take yourself out for a treat? Do you actually say you fucking did it? Do you sit with yourself? Do you actually spend time in it? Do you buy yourself a little something, do you?
Speaker 2yes, although I feel like that easier to do on collaborative projects, why I feel like I'm kinder to other people than I am with myself. So, including myself in the group, I think it is multiple times we've done a good job on something and I'm like let's go to dinner. I'm taking everyone to dinner Because I want to celebrate them and the work we did together. Rarely do I go you did a good job. Go do something nice for yourself.
Speaker 1When's the last thing you did nice for yourself?
Speaker 2Well, I was just in Omaha and I walked around there was these old toy stores. I don't know if that was nice in terms of like treating, but I didn't buy anything. I should have fucking bought that's okay.
Speaker 1You went for the experience.
Speaker 2I went for the experience. I loved not speaking to anyone. I do love that too. It was amazing. And then you know, the next day at work you're ready to speak to people.
Speaker 1Yeah who knew, because there's a lot of talking then yeah it was nice, not well, actually, this is a bizarre.
Speaker 2You know, I I went to this toy store and I like got back to like going to museums, I like that. Nobody knows who I am. I'm never going to come back here again. I feel free to be myself because I'm not being judged. Uh, meanwhile I was in the wrestling section and I did some digging and and my action figure is there. I did see that and then I go well, now what do I do? It's like I had to walk around with it.
Speaker 2Well, sometimes they do this thing and this is this thing now where they will buy the action figure. So, like I think anthony bowens did it, he saw his action figure in target and he bought it and signed it and then put it back and tweeted out hey, this is this target here. If you know first person to find it, it's yours.
Speaker 1I already bought it, it's my gift did you leave the receipt or something, because they're going to think that's theft?
Speaker 2right. Well, they'll scan it and show the tweet. Maybe I don't know um it's a good way to get someone arrested. It is a fun prank, anthony. Um you're right, is everything okay? Um?
Speaker 1yeah, someone rang my doorbell and I was like, oh, do I do something?
Speaker 2and then I was like, do I sign it? I don't have a sharpie. And then I was like, do I go to the front desk and say, do you have a sharpie? This is me.
Speaker 1And then I thought this is insane, this would be ridiculous how long did you stand there in this oh cycle of 10 minutes, 10 minutes, okay sure, yeah, so, and it was nice being on the shelf, yeah you know being what'd you do.
Speaker 2I walked away. He just left. I said I can't, I can't bother with it because the the worst part of it would be talking to the cashier. To me that was the deterrent that be tweeting about it. You know, fielding those comments from people, whatever, no big deal. I I say the worst things to people online all the time. Speaking to the cashier was like insurmountable odds. I have to talk to someone. That's not happening. Now I got to add extra layer. Yeah, I'm out. No, the whole thing. If the waiter fucks up my food, you will get no feedback from me. I just don't say anything. Having to do that conversation is like I'll eat whatever piece of shit you put down in front of me, just so I don't have to do that is it because you you don't want to talk to them or you don't want to like shake the table?
Speaker 2yeah, I don't want to shake the table. I'm really big on like. I'm really big on like, like, and maybe it's it's a reaction to pro wrestling being so legacy focused. Is that like?
Speaker 1all this. You don't want to end up on a dark side of the ring?
Speaker 2no, is that, like all this shit's going to be forgotten about? The same way, dark side of the ring, whether it's good or bad, it's going to be forgotten about. So, let me, let me, make the smallest footprint possible.
Speaker 1Hmm, you know do you think about your legacy?
Speaker 2Yes, but I think about it in the very short term and I also think being interested in old things helps me be rational about that have you always been an old man? You said you've been interested in quite some time it's my grandmother's fault to to put on that music and those tv shows and movies that were old then wise, what's?
Speaker 1how old are you in spirit?
Speaker 2culturally, we've pinpointed it to like 67, 68 okay but even even then I mean, and that was the base. And then you push yourself further. Where I go, who? I have like three possible people in my phone who would know shit I want to talk about sometimes, right, so you're like, well, what do I do here? But it gives me perspective, especially with like old show businesses like these people have completely forgotten about. You know, I'm, I feel like sometimes the only person on earth who knows any of that stuff and that helps me and I go. One day that will be, and I feel like it would happen at an even more rapid of a pace for me now. There's so much shit out there, you know.
Speaker 1You're such a unique human and I enjoy talking to you for many reasons, because I'm also not the nicest and I like to live in reality and be like this is bullshit and get to the point. It keeps it, keeps it fun. But something that's always been really important to me. I was driving the other day, a little elevated and I was thinking how important community is for me yeah and like having people, how important is community for you? Like do you care? Like, do you have a crew? I've got a few crews community again.
Speaker 2Like everything, community can be very good, community can be. Community can be very bad. Sure, right, it's just a bunch of people who think something similar, really so sure, but I think there's support that like a good one.
Speaker 1Yeah, there's similar views. And also, if you need something, do you have people you can call? Do you got like a list?
Speaker 2yeah, yes, yes, yes, I have, I would say, a small circle of friends who I feel like I can really rely on and people that I don't have to necessarily spend time with all the time. Sure, but there's also communities like I'm not big on it. I never felt like I don't know identifying as a wrestler. When I was wrestling Me in the locker room one of the boys, that shit was like weird to me. That was like a turnoff. I don't know why I don't like identifying myself as things.
Wrestling, Comedy, and Gay Culture
Speaker 1Then why wrestling? How did you? We're going to flip it and reverse it. How did we get to wrestling with all of these? I mean, honestly, wrestling kind of combines all the things. It's a show, it's a performance, it's comedy, it's Well, it is.
Speaker 2My old line is that it's just, it's the Muppet show, it's the violent Muppet show and it is. As a kid there was. I loved wrestling and I loved the Muppets, so you also. You can't. You can't become a Muppet. You can become a wrestler. I can't be Sam the Eagle. I would have to be a puppet. I would have to fucking. You know what I mean. I got to deal with lifeless felt and production and whatever, but I could become a wrestler. So it was this interesting fantasy world to me. The performances are fun. I feel like all wrestling is rooted in comedy. Many wrestlers don't like having this conversation because they feel humiliated by comedy and they feel degraded by comedy. It's probably because they don't understand it, but you know you're falling down. Most of wrestling is falling down. How is that not like the root of comedy through history?
Speaker 1yeah, my friends were like it's so camp. Oh my god, I didn't know wrestling was so camp. This is wild. I'm like yeah, well, don't tell them that. In the back right.
Speaker 2But well, I I I've gotten into arguments and and because someone, a wrestler, called, I had this discussion today again and somebody said that the stuff I do is campy. I said, no, all of this is campy and the people who don't realize it and think it's serious are actually more campy than the people who are aware that it's campy you're like, that's when it's working yeah, and the fact that you think the shit you're doing is like you identify, you're not aware of the campiness is the best.
Speaker 2It's somehow so much better. Um, yeah, so I I find a real parallel between wrestling and comedy, and there's timing there, I mean, there's physical, there's an a. If comedy is inadequacy, which it it seems to be to, to me at least, the idea that you've either made it, you've tried to make a situation better, but you've either kept it the same, you've made it worse. Um, every wrestling match has an inadequate person at the end of it, at least one. There's winners and losers. You lost right and you have to lose in front of a bunch of people and you really have to eat a loss. The same way that in I don't know a comedy or America's Funniest Home Videos, this guy gets hit in the balls for the world to see.
Speaker 1Yeah. And you don't have to laugh every time.
Speaker 2Right, and I also think, but I don't. I always wonder why people are so adverse to identifying as being funny I think it's also attached to vulnerability.
Speaker 1You know, like being in the back and at wrestling show, it's very humbling. You're like, oh, it's all regular ass people everybody's back. You're all anxious and in their heads like it's, it's all pretend and I think people as you're saying, it's like this is not, we're not doctors, this is not like science. We are entertaining and maybe helping people's brains take a break.
Speaker 2Yeah, and most of the time we're entertaining, we're entertaining people and we we're not even sure why what we're doing is entertaining, and most of the time, the people who are watching it don't even know why what we're doing is entertaining, and most of the time, the people who are watching it don't even know why it's entertaining either and then, and probably it's because it's very sort of primal and there's a community aspect to being a wrestling fan, there's something obviously the the magic in 10,000 people reacting together in a way that one person going woo, it's not the same.
Speaker 2you know, there's something nice about that. Yeah, I feel like to wonder why it's entertaining to people is to get to a death that they're uncomfortable with. And then, you know, you point out the male intimacy and I love that part.
Speaker 1I well.
Speaker 2I love being like it's so gay to not think this is gay. It's so gay, Right, it's so gay. The gayest people are the people who are like no, this isn't gay, You're like come on.
Speaker 1You're like. I just feel like it's Pride Month. This is very fitting.
Speaker 2I will also say, and one of the main challenges I feel wrestling has in growing as a business is not properly branding itself to any other sexuality.
Speaker 1You know what's so funny? We had a show in LA recently, so I just got tickets for my friends and my friends were like this is the gayest thing. They need to promote better, because the queers would go up for this.
Speaker 2Well, what? What used to hurt me? And I'm in Toronto, so you would get, like I would say, fairly progressive people, and but wrestling is very like lift up a rock and you will. They will always be like a redneck at a wrestling show, no matter what. Uh, you could be in france and you'll just get and like, wow, I didn't know, you did it here yeah.
Speaker 2So a lot of of gay friends. We did not want to come to the shows because they were they, they love to watch it. They would never come to a show because they found the community so unfriendly to gay people and that's bad. I mean it's bad morally. It's also bad in a business sense. They're throwing money at drag queens and we're bleeding and they're like, I don't know, freaking Queers and women. Yeah, is it that?
Speaker 1Yeah, because we buy things and we buy merch Right and I'm a queer woman Right Double down.
Speaker 2You know, most straight male wrestling fans that I've experienced have their money in like Ziploc bags.
Speaker 1And I'm like so.
Speaker 2But even from a financial standpoint, which is, you know, when I, when I talk to people who can promote things in a business sense, I'm like it, just it makes business sense.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2There's a bunch of people out there who could be fans and they're not. What are we doing?
Speaker 1We have like two more questions because we've been chatting. We, yeah, I'm going to ask them, you're going to answer them. What's anxiety holding you back from right now?
Speaker 2Oh, so, much Often from relaxing, from experiencing joy, from having important conversations or difficult conversations, wanting to wait to the right moment. A lot of conversations there is no right moment. Um, you know, it's the before the conversation is so dreadful, and then after the conversation so much better. But my body won't let me get there. You know, I just gotta wait, I have to wait it out. Uh, confronting people, communicating my needs, that's pretty all across the board. Yeah, just saying I want this, I don't want this is like I've often made a huge mess of my life. Just not saying this is what I want and I don't want this, and that's it. It shouldn't make me a bad person, but I guess that's my fear.
Speaker 1That's the not being chosen or not being seen as this type of person role.
Speaker 2Yes, I mean, I just want to be chosen. I guess I don't worry about what type of person I am. I want to hug you. I guess I don't worry about what type of person I am.
Speaker 1Oh, you know well once. Oh, and throw water balloons for fun.
Speaker 2What Water balloons? Yeah, hug. And then come on, what are we doing? Dangerous, the bed for the birds. What are we doing? You want to hurt them. I'm not picking them up, I don't want to purchase. Well, now you're literally that. That's another thing where I'm like I don't want to have a water balloon fight with you because I don't want to pick them up. Afterwards I always see the non-joy aspect of it.
Speaker 1You can't just sit in the thing.
Speaker 2No, I can't. The part that's joyful never outweighs the non-joyful part.
Speaker 1When was the last time it did?
Speaker 2Ever. No, not ever. But I'm saying you say water balloon fight, my mind goes to someone has to clean this up.
Speaker 1No, it's going to litter, then I'm going to be wet, and then all these things.
Speaker 2Right, which is a fun thing to explore when I'm performing.
Speaker 1Which is coming. You have a performance coming.
Speaker 2I have a performance coming, which is coming. You have a performance coming, I have a performance coming, but even on, you know, hey, when somebody knocks over my sign, it's nice to deal with those sort of instincts while there's a camera present.
Speaker 1So those are the things. Anxiety is holding you back. What are things that are currently being motivated by anxiety for you?
Speaker 2I turn out so much work in a day. I really do. The writing is a lot Scripts for a bunch of shit. I'm on top of stuff so much that when I send stuff to people I go you don't have to message me back right now. This is for a week from now. It may happen, it may not. I'm like I need to write this right now to just get out of the way. Don't even answer me, because I don't want you to have any pressure.
Speaker 2Um, there's stuff like that, uh, being able to uh to work on multiple projects at the same time and and oh, it's like, oh, I really am getting a lot of stuff done in a day and I'm thinking about other stuff on top of it. So, yeah, that's usually what it's helping me. Do I mean be prepared like, pack my bag, make sure I have my shit to get like I travel? Well, I think that's good. I mean that's you know my grandmother and my mother saying make sure you have your wallet, make sure you have your keys, make sure you have your keys, make sure you have your coat. This, I feel like, says it in a nutshell. Talk about not seeing the joy in it. My cousin and I went to WrestleMania 20 in Madison Square Garden, which was just a dream, a total dream. Wrestlemania, madison Square Garden, I don't know. My dad got me tickets and shit. This is the greatest. My cousin, he was a shoe shopper, this is great.
Speaker 2And my grandmother said make sure when you stand up to cheer, that you feel behind you for your jacket, because people like to steal jackets. When people stand up to cheer, like there's some guy in the back going, I have them all now Really saying that your highest moment of enjoying this thing she's like but wait, someone will steal and it's like. It's almost like you would be a fool to celebrate Because people will take advantage of that.
Speaker 2Why she ended up with that mindset, I don't know, but she certainly passed it along to me but she definitely passed that down I've also experienced a lot of people who you know celebrities or people in work, I mean, obviously wrestling like there's a shelf life and and I guess with comedy to who got so big or got so carried away with shit that they didn't realize when it was over and then they couldn't change. So I feel like to celebrate is to really sometimes take my finger off the pulse and I may miss something. You know, and I did that before. I mean, I was on a nickelodeon show, it's true, and I went.
Speaker 2Well, this is it. Pack up my bags, you know we're hitting the big. It's not gonna get any bigger than this. And then it was like you do it for a summer and you're like can't wait for it to come out. And it comes out and it's like, all right, it's, it's a shot and it did well, I mean, they did another season, it's in 100 countries, but relative to what you thought it was. And then you're like maybe I should not get excited about anything Because that was fucked up.
Speaker 1Do you think you'll ever get to a place where you'll get to just?
Speaker 2exist.
Speaker 1Yeah. I feel, like time will grind my mind and body down.
Speaker 2Oh so, like when you're like unable to operate yeah, well unable to operate or just forced to, I don't know do other things or do them in a certain way. I don't, I don't know. And then I also wonder about like, oh my god, will we all fucking be 70 and have our youtube? Is there an age where that stops? Or are we taking it all with us? You know, I've done coffee and underwear for like five years now, so, and I did not. And then I go what the fuck? Why are we? Why are we doing this? I mean I certainly I consume enough old people, media that you know old people have podcast. It's not like you have to 25 to have a podcast. So, as you all age, I mean this is where we're gonna be and I'm like crazy. It feels like such a young thing to me. And then then I also think about like I don't know people like Eminem who put out that music video and I thought, gee, aren't you a little.
Speaker 1Aren't you a little old to?
Speaker 2just make a music video.
Speaker 1You're aging people's music video.
Speaker 2Well, at some point are you just like let me just put out an album, what am I doing? That I I mean, and it was received mixed, you know. And then there are people like it's like a him and like a bill maher will be like talking about being cancelled. I'm like, oh, come on, how do you not realize that that's like a death sentence in your work, like what are you not paying attention to? And that's when I get worried and I go if it happens to them, if that happens to eminem are you not paying attention to, and that's when I get worried and I go if it happens to them, if that shit happens to eminem?
Speaker 1are you worried about getting canceled? No okay, it's also not real.
Speaker 2That's not true, because I it's not you know what go ahead.
Speaker 1Go ahead, because I go, I'm going, oh yeah I will say it is true, if you can get cancelled faster, if you are a woman or someone of color okay, I would say fatty arbuckle.
Speaker 2Do you know? Do you know who fanny arbuckle is? No, I know fatty coo fatty arbuckle old actor silent film. You gotta look it up, it's fun, I will. But there was a party, a woman died at the party. Oh well, they, they put him on trial, I think four times and he was acquitted all four times and they poured through all all the evidence and like the common consensus now is that he was completely innocent.
Speaker 2She died to some condition she had and he's probably dead now right, oh my god, he would be like 300 years old, um, but he was like fucking done and had to like try to work under a different name and so blah, blah, blah, and it's like a learning history, I will say, helps me put stuff like well, this cancel culture now into perspective, really, and it's like you guys just don't know, you're you know, I had someone tell me that eminem was the first celebrity to be canceled. I'm like, let me, here is this book you're like I'm a guy first of all named fat.
Speaker 2To cancel someone named fatty is so cruel. He's already done you the decency of letting you call him fatty, and now he's incredibly mean.
Speaker 2But no, am I worried about cancel culture? No, I don't know. I'm not worried about. I'm motivated by I I don't like well, because it's anxiety. I don't like the idea that you can't say anything anymore, that it's so wrong, and it bothers me that in a lot of my, a lot of my work is like let's just be funny, but sometimes there will be an ulterior motive to go. How can I write a joke about trans people or autism and you did some good things, thank you and have it be understood in a good way.
Speaker 2Like I'm of the belief that you can't, you should not ban any word. Just, I'm just speaking in rules. Obviously there's a lot of words you shouldn't say. I was like To do a blanket statement like that. Forever is wrong to me, right, there's certain words I can't say in this time, right now, but theoretically is there a well, I'm just sure, sure, theoretically will there be. You know, is it potentially? Is there a time and a place where I could say that word?
Speaker 2I would like to say, yes, I'm not going to bother finding out what it is, it's not, it's not worth my time, but I really believe that and and so I hate people complaining about you can't say anything anymore. And then I made all these jokes on what I would say is a fairly large platform for a very big public company, and they were understood very well and sometimes celebrated Not that I need them to be celebrated, but my point being it's it's your perspective on them and people would understand them. And I also think I mean someone who has anxiety and can joke about it, and then people reach out to me. The same way, I mean making a joke about autism or or transsexual, and then people reach out and enjoy it and they're happy to be seen I mean to be joked about in a good way is being recognized. It's not in a mocking way, you know you disagree?
Speaker 1no, no, I don't. I'm actually really into this right now. Do you think that your work is changing the world or adding to it?
Speaker 2uh, changing, no, releasing a little bit of ar in a good way, yeah, okay, I don't think that's not my never my goal, because there are so many factors beyond my control, and that also is what happens when you work for a company. You have to put stuff out there. You've got to deal with a million other things. You have to deal with algorithms that you didn't write. I can only control my work to be a certain level of good, yeah, and even then I rarely reach that mark. But that's the goal, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1When people tell you I keep saying this one last question, but I got some more when people tell you the depth. There's also a wall, but that's fine, I'll climb it another day. I'm not coming back. When people tell you you're coming back, when people tell you that your work has changed their life or has added to it how does that land for you?
Speaker 2or has added to it. Yes, how does that land for you? Um, I understand it because there have been some, some, I would say, meaningless works that have brought me joy of, not of mine, of other people that mean something to me, and I will go watch very obscure sketches or concerts or whatever they are, and just really really enjoy them. It's. But at no point do I walk around going. I'm changing people's lives. That's wrong.
Speaker 2I also am selfish and, I guess, narcissistic, in the sense that if this is not funny for me, I don't really care. If I'm doing it, saying this isn't funny for me but somebody else will enjoy it, that makes me sick to my stomach. That is a repulsion I can't even explain to you to to phone it into that degree and go. They'll find it, put the pie in the face. They'll find that funny that I've just, and then I go. What am I doing? And then that makes me go. So what am I doing here? I'm? I'm making something for myself really. So the fact that anyone else enjoys it is a surprise and, uh, you know, a bonus, and of course, I've made the mistake of of trying to make it my job, and then you have to deal with that aspect of it and do it in a certain way where I can actually make money and I can eat. But food.
Speaker 2We need that yeah I, yeah, I think about like my brother. Sometimes I have a brother who's very funny and but he's not involved in any sort of entertainment and I just, oh, he can just be funny and he didn't have to do anything with, oh, he can just be funny and he didn't have to do anything with it. Yeah, he could just be like a funny person in life. Oh, I look at it and go huh.
Speaker 1That was an option, yeah. But it was an option, and you chose this one.
Speaker 2Yeah, I'm very, very, I guess, protective of it and stubborn about it and I go no, this is what I want to, and that's probably part of why I'm not very kind to my work, because I want to make sure it's something that I would enjoy. Does that help at all In your self-reflections?
Speaker 1No, it's not done. It's not done.
Speaker 2It did not help. I have the time.
Speaker 1In your self-reflections. Do you ever go? I actually am pretty funny to other people and that's okay I don't go, that's okay.
Speaker 2What do you go? Well, I'm saying, oh, that was funny, that was okay, I mean so. So hay, for example, has done I don't know 102 episodes now, yeah, which is a tremendous amount for me, like.
Speaker 2So it's in the sense that I didn't realize it's a lot, but it's something where I was like I can't believe I did that many yeah, I can't believe.
Speaker 2Like I put my head down and did the work and thought, gee, maybe we'll get 10 episodes if we're lucky. And and here we are, and we're have yet to also slow down and it gets harder and harder. Get more eyes as it goes. Get more eyes, but you also have to deal with like you want to still keep it fresh and you know evolve what the show is and the stuff I'm asking and I'm interested in, so that you know evolve what the show is and the stuff I'm asking and I'm interested in. Um, so that makes me go, okay, well, I'm, it's not even I don't go, I'm funny. I look back on stuff and I go, well I'm, I must be according to it's very like, according to this, like I don't personalize it, you know, although I I will also say and I do enjoy, like somebody came up to me in catering, which is a very common thing, I'm like a real, like insult salesman.
Speaker 2And a guy came up to me and said hey, I need your help. I got to do a thing with whoever it was. I need some shit to say about them. Some shit to say about them and like that's where me being critical and hard and judgmental and all those horrible things immediately become useful. They say, oh, what about this, what about this, what about this? And it's great to have nothing. You know, yeah, he came to me because he had nothing and I had nothing I didn't know he was gonna ask for. And then now we have five perfectly good insults and that's great. It's a little like magic trick. It does make me feel good to like whoa, nothing was there.
Speaker 2Yes, but then similarly, and when that happens it also helps me. You know, when I have anxiety and I do the catastrophizing and I go see that's the same muscle. You're just not steering it in the right direction. There was nothing there and then you put something there.
Speaker 1And that will lead us to our last question.
Speaker 2Oh God.
Speaker 1It's the last one, but it's my favorite one.
Speaker 2Who are you now? Yeah, okay, no.
Speaker 1Nope, what is the wildest thing? That someone has texted, emailed or dm'd you in the last two weeks?
Exploring Comedy and Human Vulnerability
Speaker 2oh, in the last two weeks, I was gonna say of all time, and I immediately had an answer oh, I mean, if you want to switch it up.
Speaker 1Some people are like can I give you a list?
Speaker 2I'm like years and years and years ago it was a sexed gun awry.
Speaker 1Give you a list I'm like years and years and years ago it was a sexed gun awry yes, I'm in.
Speaker 2You want to hear this? Okay, this is absolutely very long time ago. Wonderful person allegedly um, and it was I, and I remember I was. I was doing a shower just after university. I remember, like the, the room I was in when I read this oh, let's meet up next week, I will be off my period then and we can devour each other and I. My issue was period and devour were in the same sentence. They were not separated by even a comma and I went this is a bad sex, that there's like logistics. And then she tried to spin it and I'm like just be like, either give me the business end or the fun end, don't try to merge them. That would be like whoa.
Speaker 2And then I was just, I was horribly affected by it. No, what is the wildest In? The past is relative in the past two weeks.
Speaker 1Yeah, we want it fresh, Huh, hmm, see, this is why you read the questions, rj. So I didn't know.
Speaker 2Let me what I can think of it. You cut this out. Yeah, we can cut this out. There's a long silence.
Speaker 1Now we hear about this.
Speaker 2Audio track. Well, I'm trying to tighten it up for you, that's fine. Hmm, this is let me look. Does that bother you if I scroll through my phone?
Speaker 1no, people do it all the time. They're like, damn it, I knew you were gonna ask this and I'm like, well, you weren't prepared. So here we are. Um, I've gotten some wild answers I don't know if that's well.
Speaker 2I do do think this is sort of wild and a weird. No, that's not wild, my, my, I mean the fact that I've now checking my mother's text messages should say something. What's why I'm trying to think what is considered wild here.
Speaker 1Wild is relative. I've had people get reached out to by cholo clubs. I want to escort survivors.
Speaker 2I my friend got a video breakup.
Speaker 1I've had people getting sexted. I've got, you know, dicks, I've got vaginas. I've got sad stories. I've got weird sex toys. It's you know, dicks, I've got vaginas, I've got sad stories.
Speaker 2I've got weird sex toys. It's you know the gamut, these. I don't find any of these wild. I'm upset we're not wild. Yeah, what's what's weird.
Speaker 1I'm upset that there's nothing wild here. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2Oh, I will actually say no, something happened today and it was it's oh, it's so nice to be invested in other people's drama I had. I have a friend who was who found out that they were blocked by somebody on Twitter, juice. I never knew, years ago In the media business, a person that I not personally knew, but I knew of them, and it was one of those things where I was like, what did you do to this person? There's nothing. You didn't even cross paths, you didn't even work together, whatever. And this my friend discovered that they were blocked, like maybe a year ago, two years ago.
Speaker 2Today, the person who blocked them messaged them on Instagram saying, hey, what's going on? Like checking up, catching up, and I was like like blown the fuck away. And I was like you got to get to the bottom of this. You got to ask like why you were blocked. You need, like you got to do. And then my friend was like I'm gonna, I'm gonna play a long game. I'm gonna like settle in first and like catch up with them and let them know. I was like, no, no, you gotta, you have to, you gotta find out. I'm thinking, maybe, that I I'm like maybe they think they got a divorce, they had a really controlling partner or something. You like a tweet and they're like you gotta block them. So what a weird.
Speaker 2I mean you save that for like the worst people in the world sometimes I know, I know that that's me, then I think everyone, anyone who blocks me, must think I'm the worst person in the world. I'm like no, maybe they just find me annoying. Block me, please do. Right, see, I can't. That's just like well.
Speaker 1Well, it's also because I'm I the older I've gotten, I've lost more fucks, so I've become more combative.
Speaker 2Right, gotta lose some of those fucks. I guess I have really, really, really truly too many bucks.
Speaker 1I got a lot of fucks. Yeah it's, we're gonna work on losing some of those fucks. It's so much funner on this side, like I'm saying funner, look at there yeah, that's. That's just sloppy work but it's because I'm so happy.
Speaker 2Yeah, but it's sloppy, you're happy, and sloppy, fine, fine, that's fine. Does that work for you? I thought we were going for poignancy and I told a story I'm not even attached to.
Speaker 1I liked it.
Speaker 2You got the good period one. I think that was a good one. We got the good period one.
Speaker 1I think we did it. I think that you showed up today and I think you shared a lot about yourself that I think people will find amusing and also people will further understand you. I don't do this show because people know folks in different lights. They're like, oh, they know, rj does this thing. I do this show because there's parts of you that I enjoy that I don't think other people get to see, right, and I think there's this human aspect of vulnerability that's like fuck, yeah, we're doing.
Speaker 2Yeah, for someone who hosts a weekly comedy show, I really wanted to present a human side. That's going to do really well for me. Thanks, let them know what's behind the laughter.
Speaker 1Oh you know what, and the laughter, uh, I you know what, and that's okay. I love when they just like oh you're funny.
Speaker 2You must, you know, oh, you must like hide the sadness. I'm like, yeah, as opposed to you who are just fucking sad, you know well, I think you could do both. I'm sad all the time I know a lot, of, a lot of says the whole thing is meaningless. What do you want me to do about it?
Speaker 1as I don't get me started, all this shit's made up.
Speaker 2As I often said, if I did not laugh, my brain would just be splattered across the wall. My head would explode.
Speaker 1Laughter is healing, it's healing. But okay, here's the one thing.
Speaker 2Here's the last question, yeah.
Speaker 1No, I'm just a statement, actually, but I think that, as someone that works in trauma, I utilize trauma in the sense of like navigate, let's run this back. Someone that works in trauma. I utilize humor because if you're laughing, you're present. If you're present you're breathing, you're here.
Speaker 2Right, yes, although other times I laugh about shit in my head. That says not remotely that's okay.
Speaker 1That's okay, but you're still allowing that energy to flow through it is.
Speaker 2It is a spontaneous body reaction. That is that it is very nice. It is freeing when I do comedy, see, yeah past the anxiety wall. Yeah, oh yeah, we're past it now.
Speaker 1Thanks, oh well, where can he, she, they, them, the, they, zan and all the above? Where can they find you getting your business? Maybe spend some doll hairs on you?
Speaker 2Here's my issue. I put it in the fucking information sheet I filled out for you. Second of all, you're the host. We have to stop. If I may now get into a little podcast hosting etiquette, you come on a talk show, I plug your movie. I plug your book. If you came on my talk show to plug a book, I'd plug your fucking book.
Speaker 1I wouldn't say do you have a book?
Speaker 2Would you like to tell us your book? Why? Because the responsibility of the host Is to give that information out.
Speaker 1My responsibility was to ask you questions that made you squirm, to share a little bit more about yourself, and that's what we got.
Speaker 2So I did my job. You see me in the hallway to find you as a host. You would be ashamed of yourself. Just Google my name, a bunch of things will come up to go on a little adventure. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Just Google my name, bunch of things will come up.
Speaker 1Do come on a little adventure. What a complicated cutie.
Speaker 2Yeah great, that's a pretty black and white issue I'm holding you to.
Speaker 1I feel fine about it. Good for you Until next time, ha.
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