Unlocking Retirement Success: Don Graves on Reverse Mortgages and Long-Term Planning

🚀 Welcome to another inspiring episode of the Timeless Vitality podcast. 

🏡 In today's episode, we dive into the fascinating world of reverse mortgages with our special guest, Don Graves. With over 25 years of experience, Don shares his passion for helping American retirees leverage their home equity to secure the retirement they’ve always dreamed of. 

🎓 From his early days at Habitat for Humanity to his current role as an educator at American College, Don brings a wealth of knowledge and a heartfelt personal journey to our discussion.

🔊 Listen as Don recounts his initial skepticism about reverse mortgages, his rigorous research that led to a profound career change, and the emotional story of his family's long-term care challenges. 

💼 We’ll also discuss why early planning and considering all available assets, including home equity, are crucial for a secure and fulfilling retirement.

💺 So sit back, relax, and join us as we uncover powerful insights and practical strategies that can empower you to live with purpose and create a lasting legacy.

In This Episode:

• Discover how Don Graves' passion for helping American retirees leverage their home equity can lead to a dream retirement.
• Learn about Don’s personal experience with long-term care planning for his mother and how it shaped his mission.
• Explore the myths and truths of reverse mortgages and how they can be a valuable financial tool.
• Hear the heartwarming story of friendship that defined Don’s perspective on timeless vitality.
• Get actionable insights on making smart, strategic retirement decisions.

About Our Guest: Don Graves is a renowned expert with over 25 years of experience empowering retirees to make informed financial decisions. He has had over 16,000 consumer-facing conversations and has educated professionals through his role at American College and other platforms.

📽️ To watch this episode: https://youtu.be/CL_I9v8icgw

Connect with Don Graves:

• Website:
• Reverse Mortgage MasterClass
• Personal Site:
• Ask Don Graves

🔍 Don’t miss out on the wisdom and insights that can help you thrive well beyond 100. Watch now and embark on your journey to timeless vitality!

#TimelessVitalityPodcast #AmberStitt #ReverseMortgages #RetirementPlanning #LongTermCare #InspiringStories #FinancialPlanning #PathwaysPodcast #DonGraves #KateBeck #HousingWealthInstitute

🎧 Thanks for listening! Until next time, stay vibrant, stay empowered, and continue living with purpose. 🌟

TVep5

Transcript

Kate Beck  [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Timeless Vitality podcast, where co-hosts Kate Beck and Amber Stitt explore the unique journeys, inspiring stories, and timeless wisdom of those who embody vitality and resilience.

Amber Stitt [00:00:17]:
Together, we discover what it means to thrive well beyond 100, sharing insights that empower you to live with purpose and create a lasting legacy.

Kate Beck  [00:00:27]:
Let's get started with today's episode.

Amber Stitt [00:00:30]:
Hello and welcome to the Timeless Vitality podcast. I am your host for today's episode, Amber Stitt, along with my co-host, Kate Beck.

Kate Beck  [00:00:38]:
Hi, welcome.

Amber Stitt [00:00:39]:
And today we have the fabulous Don Graves. Welcome to the show, Don.

Don Graves [00:00:43]:
Thank you, ladies. It's a pleasure to be here.

Amber Stitt [00:00:46]:
So we're going to do a deep dive with you today. You have a lot going on. You're all over social media. You just had a launch over at American College, and I'm not going to steal your thunder. I want you to share with the audience a little bit about you. What are you dabbling in these days?

Don Graves [00:00:59]:
Mm hmm. Well, I'm Don Graves, and for the last 25 years, I've been blessed to share my passion, which is to help American retirees utilize all of their assets, particularly their home equity and retirement, so they can have the retirement they always imagined and dreamed of. And I do that particularly through a resource called the reverse mortgage.

Amber Stitt [00:01:20]:
So who just jumps into this line of work, Don? How does this become so exciting for you? On a serious note, you got to do what you love, but walk us through the journey and how you started compiling just tons of research and getting involved into this whole topic.

Don Graves [00:01:37]:
25 years ago, 26 years ago, I was president of a nonprofit in Philadelphia, Habitat for Humanity. Some of the viewers and listeners have heard that name. And my older sister, who's 14 years older than me, called me one day and she said, "Little brother, I've got a business idea for you." And I said, "Oh, good." And that's not unusual. My sister would always share with me things like that. And she told me about it. And she described it and I said, "Oh, no, that's it. This time, Michelle, you're going to prison.

Don Graves [00:02:02]:
You're taking old people's houses and their money. I don't want anything to do with that." And I just dismissed it out of hand because it sounded terrible. And then I asked her, I said, "Well, why do you think I want to do something like that?" And she said, "Two reasons." She said, "You enjoy helping people. It's part of your DNA, and this is a way you can help people. And number two, you're poor. You don't have any money."

Don Graves [00:02:27]:
And I said, "I'm not poor." And I remember saying to her, Kate, I said, "And besides that, God will provide." And my sister said this, I'll never forget it, she says, "Well, he has. He's provided you a brain and a big sister. You need to listen to that." And it took me about a year, and then I circled back, and some things happened.

Don Graves [00:02:47]:
And I found out, oh, my gosh, I don't have money to fix a sewer replacement. And I called her and said, "Tell me about that deal again." And, Amber, when I did that, I said, "Let me do my own research." So HUD, the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development, had a home ownership center in Philadelphia. And I called them up, and I went down there to the Wanamaker Building in Center City, Philadelphia. And I sat down with them, and I said, "Okay, tell me about this reverse mortgage. What's the fine print, the gotcha, the 'A-ha'." And then I talked to AARP and Fannie Mae, and there were 5 housing counselors at the time that did reverse mortgage counseling.

Don Graves [00:03:19]:
I called all 5. I got breakfast with 3 of them, and I said, "What's the fine print, the gotcha, the 'A-ha'." And when I finished all of that research, I said, "Oh my gosh, this is a wonderful resource when applied for the right person in the right circumstance." And I became passionate about it. Now, that took me a year, and I started 25 years ago, but I really started 26 years ago doing all the research, and that's how I got into this world of reverse mortgages.

Amber Stitt [00:03:47]:
How long have you been teaching at American College?

Don Graves [00:03:49]:
You know, that started probably a decade ago. And I was on a task force, had 7 PhD's and me. It could have been a sitcom. And we had a meeting, I think it was at Texas Tech University. And they brought the premier retirement researcher in America. His name was Dr. Wade Pfau. Is Dr. Wade Pfau. They invited him to be on the task force, and when he got there, he says, "I don't know anything about reverse mortgages.

Don Graves [00:04:11]:
I was reading about them on the plane ride here," and I said, "Hey Wade, we both live in Greater Philadelphia, and when we get back, hey, let's just hang out." And we went out and we ate and talked. And he says, "Don, you should come and do a workshop at the College for the president and the faculty and the deans." And I said, "Okay." And Wade set that up, and 17 showed up. And they put me on the front of their website, and I did videos for them. And then they said, "You know what? Would you create some content for the retirement income certified professional designation. We'd like to incorporate that."

Don Graves [00:04:43]:
And I said, "Well, let me first take and pass the designation," which I did. And then I created the content which is still there today. And that led to PBS calling me and all these other folks. And so that's a been about a decade that I've been able to represent the College in that way.

Amber Stitt [00:05:01]:
So Don, you're doing the research. You're seeing that there's choices for people and you want to give them choices. Your book, you have a beautiful book. I've told you I love your book, giving people choices. And in a previous episode here on our podcast, we're talking about, you have to start earlier to think about these choices. So you can choose. Now, you personally had family go through utilizing traditional long-term care, I believe. I don't know that that reverse was used.

Amber Stitt [00:05:28]:
And maybe you can share a little bit more, but you're doing all this research and there's stories. Now, you've done over 16,000 case studies, or something like that, where you talk with people about what they've used and what their choices are. So do you mind sharing a little bit about just maybe a personal story, or maybe a story about a friend? You've seen a lot of people utilize multiple strategies. What can you share with us?

Don Graves [00:05:50]:
Sure. And I've now had 16,000 consumer facing conversations and about 3,000 people went for it to become my personal clients. And that tells us two very important things. Number one, I've talked to a lot of people and heard a lot of stories. And number two, I know that the reverse mortgage is not an appropriate resource for everyone. So someone says, "Don, when you talk about reverse mortgages, is that a product? Is that what I see on television?" And I say to them, "You know what it is? It's a financial tool cleverly disguised as a mortgage." I said, "It's really more like an insurance product than it is a mortgage." And that's important.

Don Graves [00:06:25]:
And you said it earlier, Amber and Kate, that retirement is going to last longer, be more expensive and less predictable than anyone ever imagined. And if we don't start early, it's going to catch us off guard. Now, I'm 58 at the time of this recording. If I lose more weight, I'll look younger. But right now, that's what I am. And my mama was just the smartest person in the world. Daddy's from Falmouth, Kentucky, Kate, mama's from Winchester, Kentucky.

Don Graves [00:06:53]:
They got married. That's where the family is. Both sets of grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and eventually migrated to Cincinnati. But mama went to high school, and she graduated valedictorian. But at the time, she didn't have the money to go on the college, but she was the smartest, wisest woman I knew, and I looked to her for everything. And so when I got into this reverse mortgage, she made sure she said, "Listen, you honor God, and you tell people the truth. Don't sell anything to people. You tell the truth, and you trust God to bring you new clients."

Don Graves [00:07:20]:
And that's something I live by. That's a principle of life for me. So when mama began to develop dementia, oh, my gosh, what a surprise that was to me. Now, mama's 91, soon to be 92, but around 85, it got to a point where she needed home care. And mama had a plan. She had a plan. She didn't have a house, but she had a plan. So at 85, we needed care.

Don Graves [00:07:44]:
She was leaving the house and wandering about. So part time home care was $7,000 per month. My sister Donna quit her job to help fill in the gaps, and my other sister Michelle went part time, and that became a journey. And I live on the east coast now, and they all still live out in the midwest and in the Kentucky area, and so they had to live with that. I hadn't really dealt with long-term care on a personal level. I did academically and talking to people. But when you start visiting nursing homes and memory care facilities, sometimes it could be night of the living dead, and you run out of there screaming, "I can't put mama in here. I don't want to put mama in here."

Don Graves [00:08:27]:
And so the money ran out. $252,000 later, mama's money ran out. We had to find a place for her to go. And my siblings were fantastic, because, again, they carried the weight, the burden, and the heat of the day, and they found her a wonderful place. And the hardest day of that, Kate, was when we had to take mama from her home to the memory care facility. That was the hardest day. And there was a strategy, and my sister and I got her in there, and everybody's a participant, but then you got to leave, right? And mama looked at us, and she said, "Well, is it time to go? Who are we visiting?" And then she looked at us, and she said, 'You're not leaving me here, are you? You're not leaving me here." And I...

Don Graves [00:09:07]:
I don't want to have a moment here. But I tell you, I ran out of there crying. And that was one of the toughest days in my life. Now, that was three years ago, but ever since then, helping people to understand, have a plan. Now, remember, mama had a plan. She had a quarter million dollars. She didn't have a house, because if she had a house, and when she had a house, she says, "I want to do that reverse mortgage." And I pooh-poohed it a little bit because she was in a blended family.

Don Graves [00:09:34]:
Daddy had died, another wonderful man had come in, and I pooh-poohed it. And so she sold her house. She did something different. But now, long-term care is a passion of mine and making sure people understand the assets they have to really prepare for that day. So, listen, I'm an old Kentucky storyteller. You all have to cut me off, Amber and Kate, and just tell me, "Stop talking, we got more questions for you."

Amber Stitt [00:09:57]:
Well, Kate, his story...Don, thank you for sharing. This is a story. There are stories. Kate. This is why we started this journey together. Co-hosts on this is because this is going to continue to happen to all of us. We're going to have the aging.

Amber Stitt [00:10:12]:
A previous guest talked about aging in place. A lot of people are in place in their homes. We get to decide a lot of these things. If we want to talk about it early...this is really, why are we not having these conversations? Don, what do you think the reasons are that people just maybe hide from it early in their 40's? We want to empower people to think about it.

Don Graves [00:10:30]:
I don't know. I mean, I have some thoughts. Kate, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Kate Beck  [00:10:34]:
Well, I'd like to know, what kind of questions should we be answering, or asking? We always talk about planting seeds of peace, and to plant seeds of peace, we need to be kind with clarity. And if I don't know what to ask, or plan for, how do I know what the next best step is? It can feel a little overwhelming as a woman in our 40's and to say, "Oh gosh, I'm not even thinking about that. How can I start thinking about it? And what would be the best place to start?"

Don Graves [00:11:02]:
Yeah, I don't always know. Have you ever seen the commercials that are most effective on television? That I turn the channel the fastest is when they say something like, "Are you more than 40 pounds overweight?: I just grab the remote. I turned the channel as fast as I can because they got me. Because it's true.

Kate Beck  [00:11:18]:
Right.

Don Graves [00:11:19]:
Or, do you struggle with this or that? But compassion and justice starts with truth, that we have to tell people the truth. The truth of the matter. I said earlier, we're going to live longer. Retirement's going to be more expensive and less predictable. Are you prepared for a retirement that will encompass those things? I think that's a very honest question. And I had a good friend, he's in a memory care facility, but that started when he was 55. Wow. And that scared me.

Don Graves [00:11:48]:
That scared our family. He was an elder at our church, and that just frightened me. And so as you all are doing the wonderful work that you're doing, that when you bring things to people's attention, you lift it. Are you more than 40 pounds overweight? Even though they may not want to hear it, it's life saving. And what you all are doing, it's the vitality of our life. Are you planning for a retirement that could be longer than you expected, more expensive, less predictable? And part of that is, what are you doing for long-term care, health concerns, if you or your spouse, something happens, kind of what you're thinking about, that you ease into it. And, Kate, you had a term, something...what did you just say?

Kate Beck  [00:12:29]:
Planting seeds of peace.

Don Graves [00:12:31]:
Yeah. I, you know, that's a seed, and it's a wonderful seed. A seed sown in good soil is going to grow. Right? We know that 30, 60, 100 fold. But we've got to, one, have the good seed and we've got to plant it in the soil. And I'll say this, we got to plant it at the right time. Right?

Don Graves [00:12:48]:
And then no need in planting corn up here in New Jersey right now, middle of August. No need. I mean, you may get your little stalk like that, a little something, but you're not going to get ears on the corn. So we've got to have the right seed, the right soil, planted at the right time. And that's why I just commend you all for what you're doing. A broad range of topics and subject matter experts. And my little world is, hey, 87% of retirees own a home. What are you doing, Mr. and Mrs. Jones? How can that home help you prepare for a retirement that may be a little bit more complex than you imagined?

Kate Beck  [00:13:23]:
Don, I think he brought up a couple of good points, because many of us are living to be centurions, and we hope that we're making good decisions that will keep us alive in a healthy, happy, vitality filled way. And many times something happens, unbeknownst to us, outside of our control. A slip and fall injury on the pickleball court. Right? People are active. They're out there having fun, playing tennis, or pickleball, and now all of a sudden, maybe you have a broken hip. So maybe your plan didn't go out the way you thought. So is there a plan B or C of resources? Not if this then that really.

Kate Beck  [00:14:01]:
But has our audience considered ways of staying and retiring in place and also anticipated what kind of adjustments to my house maybe should be made before they're needed?

Don Graves [00:14:14]:
What I say to folks is you want to consider all your available assets as you're in retirement, or heading into retirement. And that includes your income, your employment, Social Security when you get there, pension if you're lucky, your investment bucket, IRA's, 401k's, brokerage accounts, and your insurance bucket that includes fixed and variable annuities, hold and term life insurance. And those buckets are going to be able to put out money that hopefully keeps up with inflation, avoids early erosion. And I asked folks, income investments, insurance, I said, "Is that all the buckets you have when planning for retirement?" And some people say, "Yeah, I think that's it." I said, "No, your biggest bucket." The US Census Bureau says the largest single concentration of wealth that the retiring baby boomer has is their house. And I say, "Mr. and Mrs. Flintstone, what about this house that you're living in?" "Well, what can we do with that?" It's, "Oh, if you only knew." I said, "There are 52 retirement income strengthening strategies that can help you." And I said, "But they're not standalone.

Don Graves [00:15:19]:
Incorporate them with these other things." And that's important. So I say, it doesn't matter to me if you do a reverse mortgage or not. What matters to me is that you incorporate all of your available assets in a coordinated way to see if it makes sense for a retirement that's going to last longer, be more expensive, and less predictable. I had a 104 year-old call me, my stepdad's 95, aunt Ethel died at 102. I said, "You've got a plan for that. You've got a plan for that."

Amber Stitt [00:15:48]:
Let's talk about why do you think that some of these tools that are available to us have a negative light in maybe the financial institutional world? Can we talk about a little bit of myth-busting?

Don Graves [00:16:00]:
Sure. I think we're normally scared of things we don't know fully or understand. That's the first thing. Or we have a healthy suspicion of those things. But then if it's combined with a certain mythology, as reverse mortgages are, oh, it could get just terrible. And I tell folks the first reverse mortgage was 1961 in the United States. It came under the auspices of the federal government in 1988 at the 40th president, the seating of the 100th Congress. I tell folks it's not new, it's not dangerous, it's not spooky.

Don Graves [00:16:34]:
And it certainly has gone through evolution, changes, and improvement since 1961, as have most financial tools. And so I say to folks, the newly restructured reverse mortgage may be a little different than your grandmother's reverse mortgage. Or what you saw and some of the stories that you heard, they may not be applicable today. It's worth a new look, and that's with anything. Life insurance is vastly different. Annuities are different. There are a lot of things that are different than maybe they were 20 years ago. So the savvy retiree, or the advisor is going to make sure they're updated enough, have a cursory knowledge of what's new, to be able to, at minimum, factor it out of their client's retirement equation.

Amber Stitt [00:17:19]:
You got to participate and bring in experts. It sounds like we have to do some of the work. We have to help ourselves, right?

Don Graves [00:17:26]:
I think so, yeah.

Amber Stitt [00:17:27]:
Yeah. When we talk with our listeners, we're talking about ways to, like Kate and I. Kate says she's going to live to 200, so I was saying yes to the 100. We're going to see how it goes. But she and I will probably have an investment property together. You know, we'll see how that goes. We're going to build a plan.

Don Graves [00:17:43]:
Yeah.

Kate Beck  [00:17:44]:
A fourplex.

Don Graves [00:17:45]:
Yeah, and that's a wonderful strategy, by the way, and how retirees are using the reverse mortgage to purchase a home. That two retired women, 65, both sell their house, and they said, "We're going to buy a fourplex." And they use the reverse repurchase program, a type of reverse mortgage, that they live in two units, they use the reverse mortgage to buy the other two. That's providing income without impacting them having a monthly mortgage payment. So there's wonderful, strategic ways to think about it and I think an income generating property and retirement could make a lot of sense.

Amber Stitt [00:18:20]:
I wasn't even thinking about that part, but I was almost joking, kind of. But we're building our plan as we go, Kate, every guest, we're going to just add a little nugget.

Don Graves [00:18:29]:
Yeah.

Amber Stitt [00:18:30]:
So, Don, as you have worked with people, heard their stories, are you able to answer the question for us of how does somebody be timeless, or something be timeless from your perspective?

Don Graves [00:18:41]:
Friendship is timeless. And I thought about this. I remember right before I got involved in this in 1997, I had a setback, a personal setback in my life. And it was bad. That there was a lot of loss, and it was my fault. It was my fault. I'd made a terrible mistake. And I remember sitting in my house, it was probably about 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning, and I heard a knock on the door. And I opened the door and I thought, "Who's coming here at 2:00 a.m.?"

Don Graves [00:19:06]:
I lost all my friends. So it was my friend Jerry, may he rest in peace. And Jerry was there. And I said, "Jerry, what are you doing here?" He says, "I figured you couldn't sleep, so I thought I would just come and sit with you." Now, he drove 35 minutes across town. He didn't say a word to me.

Don Graves [00:19:23]:
He just sat in the chair with me in my pain. And finally I drifted off to sleep. At some point when I woke up, he was gone. And that was one of the most powerful displays of friendship that I'd ever seen. And I said, "That's what I want to be. That's the type of friend I want to be that shows up when everyone else leaves. I don't have to have commentary. I don't have to fix it, solve it, just sit with you.

Don Graves [00:19:45]:
And said, 'Yeah, I figured you'd be up, and I just want to sit with you.'" I want to be that. So I think friendship, deep, abiding friendship, is something that brings vitality. I want to give it. I want to be the recipient of it. And that's what I thought about. That's what I want to be.

Amber Stitt [00:20:01]:
And ironically, that's the story of Jerry is that's part of his legacy is being that story that you can share with others.

Don Graves [00:20:09]:
Absolutely.

Amber Stitt [00:20:10]:
Really cool.

Don Graves [00:20:11]:
He was a wonderful friend.

Kate Beck  [00:20:13]:
Thank you, Don. That just warmed my heart.

Don Graves [00:20:16]:
Thank you. Yes, my pleasure.

Kate Beck  [00:20:17]:
Well, Don, how can we support and celebrate and acknowledge the good work you're doing in our community? How can our listeners find you and support all the good things you have going on?

Don Graves [00:20:28]:
Thank you so much. I'm an educator, and like I said, when it comes to reverse mortgages, I've told 13,000 people, no, you shouldn't do this. I told 3,000 people, this sounds like a good idea. And so I'm an educator, and so I'll give you two things for your listeners: "Don. I'd like to know more about it from an educational standpoint." ReverseMortgageMasterClass.com. www.ReverseMortgageMasterClass.com. That's about 49 minutes.

Don Graves [00:20:57]:
And there I unpack everything. We don't bother you. We don't talk. Just get the education, know what you got and say, "Don, I want to know a little something about you," but you can go to AskDonGraves.com www.AskDonGraves.com. That's got some pretty pictures of me, and I'm looking good in front of a TV camera. Not Amber and Kate good. I want to get there...

Amber Stitt [00:21:17]:
Always styling, Don. You're not fooling anybody.

Don Graves [00:21:21]:
Oh, you all have some wonderful photographs, both of you. I showed my team and said, "Look at these ladies. Where'd they get these pictures from?" I said, "I need to..." Maybe someone can do something with all this right here but...

Kate Beck  [00:21:33]:
You're nailing it, Don.

Kate Beck  [00:21:36]:
You just own it and you're showing up and you shine bright. That's it!

Don Graves [00:21:40]:
Ah, listen. So bless you. So they can find me there: ReverseMortgageMasterClass.com or AskDonGraves.com But listen, I appreciate both of you so much and what you're doing. Amber, your gracious words last week were life-giving to me and my household. I want you to know that they were life-giving, and I appreciate your words of affirmation. Thank you so much.

Amber Stitt [00:22:04]:
Thanks so much for being here, Don.

Kate Beck  [00:22:06]:
All right. Thank you, Don. Thank you for joining us on the Timeless Vitality podcast. We hope today's episode has inspired you to embrace the journey of thriving well beyond 100.

Amber Stitt [00:22:16]:
Remember, your story is still unfolding, and every step you take adds to the timeless legacy you are creating. Until next time, stay vibrant, stay empowered, and continue living with purpose.

Kate Beck  [00:22:28]:
We'll see you on the next episode!