Timeless Vitality Podcast with Kate Beck and Amber Stitt

Revolutionizing Senior Care & Solving Healthcare Workforce Challenges with Steve Fogg

• Timeless Vitality • Season 1 • Episode 7

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🎙️ Welcome to another exciting episode of the Timeless Vitality podcast! 

🏎️ Today, we have the pleasure of speaking with Steve Fogg, the CFO of multiple remarkable organizations dedicated to serving seniors in the later stages of life. 

💊 Steve shares insights into their "House of Brands," which includes Marquis Companies, Consonus Healthcare, and AgeRight Care Management Solutions, all committed to providing high-quality care and innovative solutions for seniors.

🩺 In this episode, we explore the many initiatives Steve and his team have championed, such as their unique partnership with nursing schools in Mexico to address the nursing shortage, as well as their inspiring "New Chapters" program that grants life-enriching wishes to seniors. 

💖 Steve also offers invaluable advice for families on preparing for the aging journey of their loved ones.

🏠 Stay tuned as we dive into how Steve and his organization are creating a lasting impact on the community, empowering seniors to live their best lives, and ensuring a timeless legacy. 

📌 Key Takeaways:

  1. The importance of planning for the aging journey: estate planning, advance directives, and understanding healthcare economics.
  2. The role of innovative programs in enhancing the lives of seniors.
  3. Addressing the nursing workforce crisis by creating international partnerships.
  4. Personal growth and finding purpose in later stages of life.

🌟 Don't miss this inspiring conversation that dives deep into the complexities and joys of senior care.

👍 Join us for more episodes that explore living a timeless, thriving, and resilient life!

📽️ To watch this podcast: https://youtu.be/imbMkVm8XSI

🔗 Useful Links:

Please check out the Timeless Vitality website:

https://timeless-vitality.com

#TimelessVitalityPodcast #PathwaysWithAmberStitt #SteveFogg #AmberStitt #KateBeck #PDXInsurance #MarquisCompanies #ConsonusHealthcare #AgeRightCareManagementSolutions #HealthcareInnovation #LongTermCare 

TVep7

Kate Beck  [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Timeless Vitality podcast, where co-hosts Kate Beck and Amber Stitt explore the unique journeys, inspiring stories, and timeless wisdom of those who embody vitality and resilience.

Amber Stitt [00:00:17]:
Together, we discover what it means to thrive well beyond 100, sharing insights that empower you to live with purpose and create a lasting legacy.

Kate Beck  [00:00:27]:
Let's get started with today's episode. Welcome to the Timeless Vitality podcast. I'm your host, Kate Beck. And joining me is Amber Stitt, my co-host.

Amber Stitt [00:00:37]:
Welcome. So happy to be here.

Kate Beck  [00:00:39]:
Today we have Steve Fogg here to share with us a little bit about himself and his house of brands. Welcome, Steve.

Steve Fogg [00:00:46]:
Thank you, Kate. I'm excited to be here, as well. Thank you, Amber. So, I guess I would just start by giving a little background on our organization. And at the highest level, I would say we're in the business of providing services to seniors that are in the latter stages of their aging journey. The average age of senior that we care for is 83 years-old. So we're not talking about the 65 year-old that just reached that plateau in their life, and we're talking about folks that are in the latter phase of their lives. We have a company that we have been in business for 35 years now, which started in the late 1980s, and we really provide services to seniors under three brands.

Steve Fogg [00:01:30]:
We have a Marquis Companies brand. Our Marquis brand is operating nursing homes and assisted living facilities. We have 28 facilities that we care for seniors that live in our nursing homes and assisted living facilities. Most of our facilities are in Oregon. We have a couple in Las Vegas and one in northern California. We serve about 1,500 seniors a day right now in those buildings. We also have a second brand. The name is Consonus, Consonus Healthcare.

Steve Fogg [00:02:03]:
So typical services that seniors that live in nursing homes and assisted livings get include some form of therapy, physical, occupational, or speech therapy services as they work through their aging journey. We have a company that provides those services to seniors that live in facilities, not just our facilities. We serve about 120 nursing homes across the country in providing those therapy services and employ about 800 to 1,000 therapists who deliver those services to seniors every single day. We also, under Consonus, have what's called a long-term care pharmacy. So different than you and I, who, when we have prescription needs, we can go to the retail pharmacy and pick it up. Seniors that live in long-term care facilities are not able to do that for obvious reasons. And so there's this niche pharmacy industry where those folks need to get prescriptions. And so we have a pharmacy that caters just to residents that live in facilities across the country.

Steve Fogg [00:03:01]:
We have eight physical pharmacy locations. We serve about 700 long-term care facilities and about 40,000 seniors that live in those buildings on a daily basis. So of everything that we do, it's the one business unit we have that actually manages inventory of some kind. For the most part, we're in the service business providing services to seniors. So that's our Consonus brand. And then we have a third brand called Ageright. And Ageright is kind of our name for what we call population health management. Population health has many different definitions, but I would sort of define population health as creating mechanisms, service plans, processes that allow you to cater to an isolated group or population.

Steve Fogg [00:03:48]:
And for us, it's seniors that are in the latter phases of their aging journey. And so in that ageright brand, we have started our own Medicare Advantage insurance plan. So we market our insurance plan to residents that live in our facilities. We also have a clinical services division under that brand where we employ physicians, nurse practitioners, physicians assistants that are in our facilities every single day providing services to our residents. And our podcast isn't nearly long enough today to get into that. But probably looking back in the long-term care industry, one of the most efficient services that has not taken place is seeing physicians, NP's, PA's in the buildings being able to provide services to the seniors as they need it. So those are our three primary brands. As a company, we have about 3,800 employees and we are known for being a high quality operator.

Steve Fogg [00:04:41]:
We have some of the best quality scores in the industry. And I would just add, I guess, finishing up. My brother, who is our founder, and I are very active in the industry at both the state and national level. My brother's the past board chair of our national trade association. As you might imagine, we have immense dependence on government in terms of regulations as well as reimbursement. And so because of that, we're very active and connected back in D.C. for our industry, as well. So in a nutshell, that kind of gives you a summary of who we are.

Kate Beck  [00:05:13]:
Wow, what an impressive combination of accolades and a gift to our community. You're serving a very vulnerable population and so that takes a lot of trust and follow through. Can you tell me a little bit about what are the challenges that you face, or maybe something that came up with all of these responsibilities that you saw an opportunity to foster care for our community, or ways to bring in some other resources?

Steve Fogg [00:05:44]:
So, I think this is an incredible example. And for myself, it's one of the most exciting initiatives that we've started in the last two to three years. So, in our country, we have, and for us as an organization, our biggest challenge is lack of workforce supply, specifically in the nursing profession, professional nurses. On any given day, about 15% to 17% of our positions go unfilled with permanent worker nurses because we just don't have access to enough. And we're just a microcosm of the entire healthcare industry in this country that has a severe shortage with nurses. What does that mean for us if we don't have enough nurses? It means that we can't maintain occupancies. We can't stay full because we don't have enough staff.

Steve Fogg [00:06:29]:
And it leads to all kinds of challenges through the healthcare continuum for seniors as they age. And the workforce supply issue has been immense. As we've gone through the pandemic, you can imagine that during the pandemic, from the start and going through it, there may not have been kind of a more scary environment to be in than a long-term care facility. And I would argue that it's really not much different than anything else. What's different is that the population we serve, the seniors, where they were in their aging journey, were at the highest risk should they get it. And so that's kind of what set us apart. But that led to additional challenges in workforce supply, just in our sector of healthcare. But that journey has been immensely challenging.

Steve Fogg [00:07:11]:
And I tell you what's exciting is we have a new initiative over the last two to three years where we are working with two different colleges in Mexico that have nursing schools with the goal of eventually bringing these graduating nursing students up to come work for us. This is another topic that would take 4 or 5 hours on a podcast to get through all the details. But I will tell you that we have created relationships with these two schools. One of them is in La Paz as an example. And it's just amazing that when we go down to La Paz, meet with the school leaders, meet with these students, so many of them are floored that there's actually an organization that wants to take the time, put in the economic investment to allow them to come up and work for us. And they're all so excited. I asked them all, you know, "How is it you feel good about leaving your family and your friends and everything you've known?" And to a "T", they all say, "The opportunity far exceeds those things that we'll have to deal with. And our goal is to bring the rest of our family up eventually and this is an incredible opportunity."

Steve Fogg [00:08:18]:
So for us, it's a way to solve what is massive supply issue. There's an oversupply of nurses in Mexico, interestingly enough, you might see 60 graduates out of this nursing school, and maybe 3 or 4 of them will actually get a job is all, because there's just not positions available, not to mention the average wage is I think it's around $2.00/hour for them down there. So for many reasons, they're excited. There's all kinds of regulatory challenges. They need to learn how to speak English, pass the TOEFL exam, things like that. But we're incredibly excited about this opportunity. They're every bit as skilled clinically as nursing graduates here in this country.

Steve Fogg [00:08:57]:
It's just kind of getting over the language barriers and some of the regulatory challenges. But our hope is that we'll start to have 50 to 60 graduates per year coming to work for us. By starting in the next few months, we're going to get our first group.

Amber Stitt [00:09:10]:
That's exciting.

Kate Beck  [00:09:11]:
Steve, that's incredible. What an amazing opportunity for these students to have the leadership of your companies, of you and your brother, to say, "Hey, we want to empower you." That's one of our pearls of wisdom. "Empower you to create this legacy by cultivating confidence, teaching you English, and taking the skills that you already know. And by the way, you're solving for us a problem that we are trying to overcome where we don't have enough nurses in home." I mean, I'm blown away.

Steve Fogg [00:09:38]:
Yeah, it's very exciting, and we're very unique from most of our peers in the industry and that we're putting in the economics, we're funding it all. We're not asking any of them to pay for any of it. We're actually going to house them in a long stay hotel the first four months that they're here, just so they can get their bearings. And it's going to be about $25,000 a student. So for every 50, it's about $1,250,000 in cost that we're funding. But it's worth it, and we have to solve it because it's only going to get more challenging as our boomers continue to age and really begin to utilize our industry services.

Kate Beck  [00:10:12]:
So, yeah, 11,000 people a day are turning 65. So the trajectory of, if you're creating this community now, if 83 is the average age, so 73. So 20 years from now, you're going to have someone who feels supported and trusted and empowered working for you in the middle of their career, serving. I mean, this is a huge community blessing.

Steve Fogg [00:10:35]:
Yep. It's great. And we can't wait till we can be looking back after the first group comes up and it's successful.

Kate Beck  [00:10:41]:
Yes. Amber, do you have a question? I can see you excited.

Amber Stitt [00:10:44]:
Chomping at the bit. Yeah, well, there's a lot of variables here. I think it's amazing that there's these items on the checklist. You and your brother and I imagine multiple teams are looking at trying to solve these problems, and you're doing the best you can trying to be forecasting what's to come. And so, with our listeners on this podcast, I want them to walk away, we want them to walk away with some takeaways.

Amber Stitt [00:11:08]:
Okay, I'm hearing that your companies are solving problems, but there's still 15% to 17% lack of the workers. There's some government issues, maybe there's pharmacy costs of goods, supply chain, or whatever else is to come. This is why it's more important now than ever. Kate and I, in our forties and into the future, that we have to be not reacting to these things. We have to be planning in advance. So, any thoughts that you could share? And you see all these things that you're aiding and assisting. What should people be thinking about as the adult in their family, maybe their spouse, partner, parent? What should they be really focusing on to help themselves at this point? Any advice there?

Steve Fogg [00:11:45]:
Yeah, that's a great question. If I come from the mindset of focusing on the extent that I might have a loved one that needs long-term care services of some kind. I mean, I think of kind of three things to be mindful of and prepared for, and one would be the formalities of aging. And those are the things like the estate plan is done, the advance directives are clear, and what you want, specific to DNR, specific to cognitive decline. And when might someone else need to be my power of attorney? So the formalities, I would highly recommend. You got to get them done. And I'm always amazed at how few are actually doing some of those formal things.

Amber Stitt [00:12:26]:
Yeah, it's $3,000 to $5,000. I've had clients balk at that. And, oh, my gosh, giving all the information upfront to your person that's trying to help you. So important, and it's a lifetime. I mean, you can add onto it, but it's going to help you for 50 plus years, potentially.

Steve Fogg [00:12:43]:
It's unbelievable. And all I can do is come back to the largest reason seems to be just denial about dying in general, and people just don't want to deal with it from that perspective. But I think then the next thing I would say is learning and understanding the economics of it all. Understanding what does my insurance pay, or not pay, what are my insurance options? You know, Medicare versus Medicare Advantage. This is touching a little bit in your guys world, I think. Should I get a long-term care insurance policy, or not? If we had longer time on the podcast, I'd sprinkle in some more thoughts on all of this. But having an awareness of the economics, what's covered, what's not. If I go to a nursing facility, or an assisted living facility, how much does it cost? It's always interesting to me that when I come in contact with folks, when they deal with the long-term care system the first time, they're just shocked on just the overall cost as well as what they have to come up with to fund it.

Steve Fogg [00:13:34]:
And so, having that awareness on the front side before an event might happen would be useful, just so you could have that experience. The last thing, and very well, maybe the most important, would be taking the time to learn about what it's like to be in a long-term care facility, spending time in a nursing facility, or spending time in an assisted living facility, or talking to people that are in the industry that have experience. I can't tell you because of what we do. I mean, it's probably 6 to 7 friends a month that will contact me, and it's the same thing. It's a mom or dad or grandma and grandpa had an issue and they need to go to a nursing home, what do I do? And that's just a microcosm, I think, of kind of what the challenges are at a macro level in this country. And so very few people have that awareness that are prepared. And so even if it's you go and you meet the administrator of a facility and you say, "Hey, can I go volunteer a little bit?" Having that sense of what it feels like and what goes on would be very useful in the journey of learning and preparing the best for when you have a loved one that needs it.

Amber Stitt [00:14:49]:
It's a good idea.

Kate Beck  [00:14:50]:
Steve, you brought up a great point. This week, I got a call from a friend whose mom is in the hospital for 3 days and getting transferred to a skilled nursing facility, and she is really uncomfortable and feeling a lot of fear and anxiety around it. So I won't say names for privacy, but daughter is asking me, "Okay, which skilled nursing should I use?" And I'm thinking, I don't know, your mom. And also the mom is saying, "Which skilled nursing facility should I use?" So the daughter and the mom are having a conflict because the daughter said, "Hey, mom, 2 years ago, when you had your knees replaced, I asked you to do some research and tour some facilities so that when this ever happened again, we were prepared and you chose not to." So they don't even know where to start. I don't know if we just say, is there a website, is there a framework, or is there an after this call we can come up with a checklist of, "How do I even begin?" It sounds like such a simple, "Go visit the skilled nursing facilities." Where would you find a list of everything available in your area? Is there a resource, or a nonprofit to lean on?

Steve Fogg [00:15:49]:
Our industry has a very active trade association called Oregon Healthcare Association that would have a list of all facilities. You know, you can kind of go, you know, new school and Google and get lists of all the facilities, as well. All the hospitals have discharge planners and folks that are in the business of helping families. We actually, in our company, we have liaisons that are in hospitals every day that are trying to make that engagement and help that senior make that choice. The other thing I'd like to say here that I think is really important, especially for people that have little to no experience in our environments, is, one of the things that we've always been challenged with as an industry is the perception of what being in a nursing home looks like and feels like. I would argue it's generally out of naivety, or lack of experience, and certainly the concept of going to a place to really live out your last days, it doesn't sound all that exciting, right? And so I get that perception. But interestingly enough, a nursing home, or a nursing facility today, 95% to 98% of our admissions are folks that had an acute hospital event. They had an acute incident at home, or wherever they were living before, that required a hospital episode.

Steve Fogg [00:17:07]:
Take a broken hip as an example. They needed hip surgery that they need to spend 3 to 4 weeks in one of our nursing facilities to get rehab of some kind. Or, they've got some clinical conditions that have sparked up that they need some nursing intervention for a period of time. 95% to 97% of our residents that come in the nursing homes are back in their home that they were in before within 20 to 30 days. And so the old school perception of what a nursing home is, is nothing like what it is in reality today because of that.

Amber Stitt [00:17:42]:
Thanks for saying that, Steve. I think with the CLTC, they have a bunch of education they talk about, majority of it is at home, can be. And there's a lot of misperceptions. I think that's why Kate and I, we were listening to a similar book and you know that we're going to be in a wheelchair at a certain age and then it's just over and it's like, "No, it doesn't have to be like that." So what can we do to be happy and healthy and have some of these resources? But I think the common conversation is have the conversation. And I say, if you're thinking about mom and dad, think about what would you want?

Steve Fogg [00:18:13]:
Yes.

Amber Stitt [00:18:14]:
And then start talking with, "Hey, mom, dad, I'm going to do some of these things for me. What about you?" And maybe that's the way to kick it up. But I know, Kate, it's hard because they're not going to participate. How do we keep moving them into that direction for ourselves and our parents? It does take a village, I suppose.

Steve Fogg [00:18:31]:
Absolutely. And this discussion makes me think maybe you two have read this, or heard of this book, but if not, I would recommend everyone on this podcast read it. If they're at a point where a loved one that's older is maybe in this journey, or going to be, and it's a book written by Atul Gawande, which is "Being Mortal". It is the best book on philosophy and mindset around how do I think about managing my loved ones? Or, how should my loved one think about managing their aging journey when they're at that point in their life? And at a quick summary level, it's really about optimizing the time you have that gives you the best satisfaction. Let's call it timeless vitality. But, would you rather have 5 months of smiles on your face and living your best life, or have some surgeries, or do some interventions that give you 3 years, but it's not a high quality of life. And so, clinicians, doctors even today, are educated and their jobs are to keep people alive and not as much about optimizing their life journey at the end point. And so it's not their fault and it's changing, it's evolving.

Steve Fogg [00:19:42]:
But in our country, we haven't done as good a job as others, in terms of, what may be the best way to manage the last phase of life.

Amber Stitt [00:19:49]:
Now, I know you're not in the last phase of your life, so is this why you started doing other activities, maybe like car racing? Is that just something you're checking off the list because you want all smiles always? I don't know if it's always all smiles.

Steve Fogg [00:20:01]:
Yeah. So, I do have a hobby of racing cars. What's funny, and I didn't even give my background, my role as chief financial officer. So by schooling and experience, I'm a finance and accounting person, which, stereotypically, they tend to be pretty conservative people. So it wasn't my M.O. to start racing. But I have a father who is a daredevil. My father has raced airplanes.

Amber Stitt [00:20:25]:
Oh, my gosh.

Steve Fogg [00:20:26]:
Has raced boats, has raced cars. My brother races cars and is a daredevil seeker. And so I took the plunge and went for it, even though it was a little out of my comfort zone back when I started. And now it's just the best thing ever. I love it. It allows me to not think about the stresses and challenges of our business. Not that I don't like it because I love it, but it's just a way to kind of not think about it and do something that I thoroughly enjoy, and I feel very fortunate to be able to do it.

Amber Stitt [00:20:55]:
Well, being a numbers guy, will you share who's the better racer?

Kate Beck  [00:20:59]:
Amber's always stirring the pot.

Steve Fogg [00:21:02]:
No, it's family and business.

Amber Stitt [00:21:05]:
And so, like, are you?

Steve Fogg [00:21:08]:
I tell you that we've raced a few different types of cars, and I would just say it depends on the car. Interestingly enough.

Kate Beck  [00:21:15]:
What a good family man and businessman. That was a very PC and appropriate answer.

Steve Fogg [00:21:23]:
Yeah. I mean, not that it matters, but what's interesting is on a racetrack, I could be behind someone following them for 3 or 4 laps, and I could tell you what their personality is like, just watching them in their car. And in that light, my brother and I's approach and our personalities are very different, and it shows on the track, too. So I'm the type that, you know, I'm very steady, even. I don't have a lot of swings one way or the other. And so on the track, I just kind of do the same lap over and over and over again. My brother is a type "A" personality, has a lot more swings in his personality. He's a way better leader than I'll ever be because of it.

Steve Fogg [00:21:58]:
And I appreciate that about him. But if you watch him on the track, he's, let's just say he's using a lot more of the track than I do, but the end result is pretty close.

Amber Stitt [00:22:07]:
All important. All is important.

Kate Beck  [00:22:11]:
So, Steve, we've talked a little bit about your house of brands, a nonprofit. What would you say, makes someone, or something timeless?

Steve Fogg [00:22:20]:
So I will tell you that I'm going to just answer via who it is we serve and initiatives that we've put in place that I think fit well for this, for our seniors, but for us, we have been immensely passionate in trying to give our residents the best final phase of their journey. We like to say it in terms of we want you to live the best rest of your life, whether it's 5 years, 5 months, 5 days or 5 hours. We're here to serve you and make sure that that journey is as optimal as possible. And I would say we've done that in a couple of ways. You mentioned our nonprofit. We do have a nonprofit foundation called The Vital Life Foundation. One of our strong, of many, initiatives is a brand that we call "New Chapters".

Steve Fogg [00:23:08]:
For most people on the podcast, it's like "Make-A-Wish" for seniors. And what sets us apart is, I think you'd find a lot of companies, if you had 100 operators like myself on a podcast, they'd all say they have this type of program. What sets us apart is the number of these that we do, as well as the amount of cost that we're willing to fund to make the journey and the event take place. I can think of "New Chapters" that we've done for residents that have been north of $10,000 in cost because we want to make sure that that happens. A good example is we flew someone down in a private jet from here in Portland to San Francisco, ex-professional tennis player, to do an exhibition with Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi. And this lady was able to meet, I don't remember now that it was Pete, or Andre, but one of them as part of it. But countless, I mean, we've done thousands of these.

Steve Fogg [00:24:03]:
And it fits into this timeless question because as you can imagine, the spirit and their excitement reaches levels that you just don't see when they're at the facility. And so that's one way. And then the other, and again, you have to be mindful of who the population is we're caring for. It's not the 65 year-old, healthy, very active person. It's the 83 year-old person that has some cognitive and/or activities of daily living, just day-to-day stuff, or clinical condition challenges, that they need to be where they're at. But the initiatives around bringing doctors and NP's into our facilities really fits in this, you know, what does it mean to be timeless for our residents and our seniors? Because now, today, if a senior has a change of condition in the building, you know, immediately we can have a doctor there. Whereas before the nurse that's there...and not to downplay the importance of the nurse, but they only have so much skillset.

Steve Fogg [00:24:58]:
The doctor can make a diagnosis and determination and create a cure plan and a pathway forward that doesn't mean that the resident ends up having to go to the hospital, or have an emergency room visit, and instead they can get direction and have a path that allows them to stay. And often it ends up being a better result. So a couple of just small examples, but we do a lot of things to try to make that journey, that aging journey, as pleasant and pleasurable as possible.

Kate Beck  [00:25:25]:
Thank you, Steve. I have some major takeaways. I'm really excited about collaboratively how both you and Amber came up with this idea of, "Well, gosh, why don't you just, instead of externally looking for someone to plan this for you, I want you to do it for yourself and then share that process with learning about the different facilities." And what I love about your timeless statements are that you're looking at actual data driven scenarios that are challenges and you are bringing in the community to plant these seeds of peace, whether that be the confidence about your eventual transition, or to say, "Hey, we want to cut this off at the beginning. Instead of wasting time in an emergency vehicle, let's see if we can bring highly skilled, trained people. Oh, and by the way, if there aren't enough people here right now, let's create an entire generation by paving that path." I mean, it's truly timeless.

Kate Beck  [00:26:18]:
And I feel honored and so appreciative that you would spend this time and share your story and the story of your house of brands today. Thank you, Steve.

Steve Fogg [00:26:29]:
Thank you. Happy to do it.

Amber Stitt [00:26:31]:
Steve, so if somebody wanted to participate, whether they're volunteering, wanting to get care for their family, I know you have a couple brands that we'll link in the description box. Is there like a...If someone's driving and listening in, is there a way to quickly find you, or your companies?

Steve Fogg [00:26:46]:
Yeah. So our website is www.MarquisCompanies.com. That would probably be the best.

Amber Stitt [00:26:53]:
Okay.

Steve Fogg [00:26:53]:
And it's companies as "ies" on the end as opposed to "y's". But that would be the best way. You would get all the info on myself, or other leaders in the company, as well as all of our facility locations. And then from there, we'd be happy to engage and answer any questions, as well.

Amber Stitt [00:27:09]:
Amazing. Thanks for being here. Really appreciate it.

Kate Beck  [00:27:12]:
Thank you, Steve.

Steve Fogg [00:27:13]:
You're welcome. I enjoyed it. Thank you.

Kate Beck  [00:27:15]:
Thank you for joining us on the Timeless Vitality podcast. We hope today's episode has inspired you to embrace the journey of thriving well beyond 100.

Amber Stitt [00:27:23]:
Remember, your story is still unfolding and every step you take adds to the timeless legacy you are creating. Until next time, stay vibrant, stay empowered, and continue living with purpose.

Kate Beck  [00:27:37]:
We'll see you on the next episode!