Anything But Law
We love law, but we don't always want to talk about it. Who are we outside the boardroom and courtroom? In this show, we explore how our multiple purposes collide and ask the question: where does our motivation to work come from? Community and business leaders join us to share personal stories about their passions, how they stay driven, and what makes them tick.
Anything But Law
Julian Franklin: From Law To Sports Marketing Leadership
How does a dream of becoming a lawyer transform into a top executive role in sports marketing? In this episode, we sit down with Julian Franklin, Vice President of Partnership Development and Strategy at Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, to explore his unconventional career path. Julian’s story begins with an unexpected pivot from law school aspirations to a marketing internship with the Toronto Blue Jays, eventually leading him to executive roles at major brands like Kraft Heinz and his own successful agency.
Julian opens up about the pivotal decisions, challenges, and mentors that shaped his career, offering listeners a behind-the-scenes look at the world of sports marketing and partnerships. His deep passion for storytelling, community-driven campaigns, and calculated risk-taking shines through as he shares valuable lessons learned from years of leading marketing initiatives for iconic brands and organizations.
Whether you are an up-and-coming marketer or a seasoned professional, Julian's insights on the power of storytelling, collaboration, and mentorship are both inspiring and actionable. Learn how to navigate complex business landscapes, balance risk and reward, and make career moves that align with your personal values and goals.
Additionally, Julian provides a unique perspective on the cultural differences between Canadian and U.S. markets, the emotional side of consumer engagement, and the growing importance of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DE&I) in marketing. He reflects on successful campaigns like Kraft Hockeyville and shares how MLSE’s teams, from the Toronto Maple Leafs to the Raptors, are shaping the vibrant culture of Toronto.
Tune in for an insightful and inspiring conversation with one of sports marketing’s most influential figures, and discover what it takes to thrive in this dynamic industry.
Presented by: Lerners LLP Hosted by: Mark McAuley Executive Production: Natalee Davis Project Management: Dylan Willems Audio Engineering: Aaron Murray – Charterhouse Studios (Season 1,3), Chandra Bulucon - Puppy Machine Recording Studio (Season 2) Graphic Design: The Branding Firm Inc. (Season 3), Jen Luchka and Dawn Yan Theme and Underlying Music: Mark McAuley and Randy McAuley
Welcome to another season of Anything but Law, where we talk about anything but law. It's literally in the name. This season, we continue to dive into the minds of exceptional people, from entrepreneurs and business leaders to gold medal winning Olympians and thought leaders. We bring you inspiring stories and valuable insights from those who have truly made a mark in their fields. In each episode, we explore the success mindset, the art of overcoming adversity and the powerful lessons learned from failures that have launched extraordinary success. Our guests share their journeys, challenges and the pivotal moments that have defined their paths to greatness. So, whether you're looking for motivation, strategies for success or simply an inspiring story and great conversation, you've come to the right place. Let's get into it.
Mark:Today we have an exceptional guest with us, someone who has shaped some of the most successful campaigns and partnerships in the marketing industry. Joining us is Julian Franklin, the Vice President of Partnership Development and Strategy at Maple Leaf Sports Entertainment. With a career that spans decades and includes top tier brands and influential roles, Julian brings a wealth of experience and insight to our discussion today. Prior to his time at MLSE, Julian served as the Senior Vice President and Managing Director at Geometry Global, where he oversaw client services, business development, strategic planning, branding and staffing. His strategic leadership and innovative approach led to the successful expansion of client services and significantly enhanced employee performance and team culture.
Mark:Julian was also the head of marketing at Kraft Heinz, where he led North American consumer relations and brand activation. He developed and implemented campaigns that generated millions in revenue and managed the team that was instrumental in merging Kraft and Heinz contact centres. This merger improved processes and budgeting and delivered over $500 million in cost savings. He also spearheaded the development of corporate marketing programs like Kraft Hockeyville, which we will definitely get into today. Julian also started Franklin Management Group, his very own agency, where he's provided channel brand activation, retail and sponsorship consulting services to tier one corporate clients like Amazon, the Dairy Farmers of Ontario and Kruger. His expertise has guided agencies, private equity firms, startups and nonprofits to new heights. Join us as we explore Julian's journey, his insights into partnership development and his vision for the future of sports marketing.
Mark:This is a conversation that you do not want to miss, Ladies and gentlemen. Julian Franklin. Julian Franklin, welcome to Anything but Law.
Julian:It's a pleasure to have you here. Pleasure to be here too, Mark. Thank you.
Mark:There's something that one of my friends liked to say and she likes to say let's get into it. But what she always used to do was ask her podcast guests first tell us about your journey to get here. I love this one because we usually kind of work backwards, but I always like to know was little Julian Franklin sitting in the back of a classroom saying I want to design branding and marketing for some of the top brands in North America? Was that something you were thinking about?
Julian:No, but what I will say is you know I'll share on this podcast that my dream was always to become a lawyer. That was, yeah, that was my, that was my goal, you know, and I went so far as to go and try and fulfill that dream, taking criminology at the University of Ottawa, writing my LSATs, getting thinking that I was going to go to law school and become a lawyer. And then I happened to get a serendipitous pivot into the world of sports and packaged goods marketing and I guess you know it's been decades later.
Julian:I won't share my age, but decades later, you know, still in that space loving it. You know I think it was the right decision for me and my career. But yeah, growing up, little Julian Franklin thought he was going to be a lawyer. That's interesting.
Mark:I was going to ask you what went right Exactly.
Julian:So what was that?
Mark:first pivot. What was your first taste of the marketing? What got you interested in the marketing in the world?
Julian:Well, I've always loved to, you know, share stories, and I've always loved being, you know, at the front of the classroom, at the front of the stage, you know, sharing my story or trying to articulate a story on behalf of somebody else, and I think that was one of the things that maybe attracted me to maybe becoming a lawyer and watching copious hours of Law.
Mark:Order and.
Julian:Matlock and LA Law. So with some of those references you're probably catching my age right now but I digress. But really what happened was those opportunities still presented themselves in the sports marketing space. I love sports.
Julian:Growing up I was an athlete, tried to do a lot of different things but you know, found myself playing a lot of hockey and really enjoying kind of what sports marketing had to bring. And it actually led me to an opportunity as an intern with the Toronto Blue Jays as I was exiting my third and fourth years in university and you know, really, as I say, never looked back, really thoroughly enjoyed kind of the opportunity. My first job with the Toronto Blue Jays was taking the 1992 and 1993 World Series trophies on a speaking tour across the country. So getting to do what I really liked, which was to share stories and really experiencing every rubber chicken dinner, every opportunity to present it at a Kiwanis club, going to the C&E, et cetera schools, hundreds of schools across the country, and being able to share that story. And then that really turned into an opportunity at the Blue Jays. That lasted the better part of seven years and then I moved forward from there into some of the companies that you had shared earlier in your intro.
Mark:I love how you mentioned rubber chicken dinners. I'm going to give a shout out to the convention centers all over the world for all of those, Exactly. So you get to the end of your tenure at the Blue Jays and you decide how do you pick what's next? Obviously not law school.
Julian:Obviously not law school Great choice Great choice Just actually continue to move and progress. Opportunities presented themselves to move into different areas, different areas. You know packaged goods marketing is. You know for me was the next step in becoming a Folsom brand marketer, you know was giving the opportunity to do that with Western Foods and really enjoyed that opportunity, as well as the people that were in and around that space.
Julian:You know, through this journey to throughout my career, I've always had the pleasure of having some fantastic mentors who have been with me, you know, along for the ride, who I still stay in touch with, you know even today. You know names like Peter Cosentino and Cheryl Johnson, who have been just great members of my own team that helped me provide, you know, the context I need to move throughout my career. So you know, Western Foods became that pivot point for me after the Blue Jays moving into packaged goods and then from there, after a great run at Western, I moved over to Kraft now known as Kraft Heinz at the time was known as Kraft Foods and spent the better part of a decade there continuing to get the experience needed to be a fulsome, not only packaged goods marketer but also, you know, a business leader and understanding. You know the importance of you know marketing sales strategy in developing what's needed to deliver a successful product to a consumer.
Mark:Yeah, I want to talk about that year, the Kraft Heinz piece, because I know that you were a relatively large part of the Hockeyville campaign, right? Yep, and I mean as a kid who grew up. I grew up here in London, Ontario, but also I mean in the era of I'm not going to say which teams were champions, because that also tells people how old I am, but so many kids grew up, you know, in the shadow of hockey. Hockey is a huge part of our identity and I have known some people who have lived in towns that were crowned, and so how does that type of campaign influence and inform your perspective on community-based marketing initiatives? So here you are working on very large brands, kind of expansive campaigns, and then you have this, not that I say that the scope shrinks, but kind of the subject of the matter shrinks, which, by the way, makes it more universal. So how does that influence kind of your approach to community-based marketing?
Julian:Yeah, it's a great question and I, you know, I think you know, for me it's been something that's kind of followed me throughout my career, even today. You know, Kraft Hockeyville was definitely a seminal moment for me in my career because what it provided was just a real opportunity to kind of deliver back what makes marketing so special. It's all about the consumer and community at the end of the day.
Julian:And if somebody believes enough in their cause and in this case, Kraft Hockeyville, for those who may not be aware of it, still stands today as probably one of the most important marketing programs that a packaged goods company, or much less any company in Canada, has really produced in delivering. You know the ability to rally a community together around a cause, and that cause was, you know, the simple idea of really bringing the field of dreams, the hockey version, to a community. You know how can we bring two NHL teams into a local rink to play an actual game and you know what that would mean to a community. You know, not only for the young hockey players but for, you know, everybody around the community, to have, you know, the NHL coming to your town. And then what would we do as Kraft to make sure that, if the NHL is going to come to your town, how are we making sure that your arena is looking the best that it possibly can be for their special day?
Julian:And really, the ability to take, you know, funds that if you win Kraft Hockeyville, Kraft would provide for you to redevelop and redesign your rink, and so those kind of tenants of what would almost be a simple idea of you know someone saying I feel my town is worthy of Kraft Hockeyville, we're going to enter this contest and then rallying a community to support this contest through voting and then, ideally, rallying a region and maybe rallying a country to support your small town's cause to win Kraft Hockeyville.
Julian:You know, you see how it kind of ladders up, you know, and it compounds as far as the interest and the excitement. Oh yeah, and proud to you know, see that Kraft Hockeyville, you know I think, is now entering its 17th or 18th year as a program. That's been consistent. You know I, even though I'm no longer at Kraft and proudly at Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment now, and almost on the other side of the table, where you know our brand, like the Toronto Maple Leafs, have participated in a Kraft Hockeyville. We were just actually just outside St Thomas a few months ago.
Mark:Shout out to St Thomas, our neighbor's just down the road.
Julian:Exactly, and you know the beauty of that is is, you know, almost to go back as an alumni of Kraft and you know, see some old faces and see some new ones, but some friendly ones. You know to say that it's become a full circle moment. But you know, back to your question about, you know how is that special community marketing, you know, at its core, is really about how are you able to, you know, engage the consumer's head and also their heart, and what? What does that mean? You know, when you have an opportunity to leave a legacy and leave something behind, that you know people in your community are always going to remember. And how we were able to put Kraft at the center of that is one of the reasons, quite frankly, why this program still continues to this day for Kraft and why it's so important for that organization and also for the NHL.
Mark:I love something you said about connecting with the consumer and the community, because you also mentioned earlier that you love storytelling and clearly the Kraft Hockeyville is an example of telling a story that connects with a community. As much as it elevates community, it also connects with the community and also raises the visibility of the product. How important is storytelling to what you do on a daily basis?
Julian:It's crucial, you know. It's one of the things that, quite honestly, if I take a look back with your question, Mark, it's been woven through everything that I've done as a professional. You know. You know storytelling, you know, can take many forms, but ultimately, at the end of the day, you know, how are you convincing and influencing individuals to see, you know, the opportunity that's in front of them or the position that you want to take, and then subsequently, on the flip side, how is that, you know, influencing me in what I'm looking to do?
Julian:Because you know the ability to tell a story and communicate is really what helps us get through a lot of things, solve a lot of problems, create good business opportunities, you know, drive important things such as revenue or results, and it's, you know, a business case is only a business case, but a business case with a good story is really something that's going to get you a lot farther.
Julian:So I think that those are things that for me, have been important to learn, and also being able to kind of articulate those and share that with people and then, vice versa, be open to learning and being told a story to see the other side has, I think, you know, helped me, but it's something that is not solved right. I don't sit here today saying I know it all, Learning still every day and also practicing my own craft, and you know how am I able to solve a business problem, you know, with a story. And how am I able to solve a business problem with a story? And how am I able to the story of I don't know, a local craft and hobby shop?
Mark:Let's say, you know what I mean, like is there a marked difference and I think that's you know these campaigns, as I'm talking about community-based marketing, you know, from large to small is there like a marked difference between that and the tone you have to strike and the way you approach it or kind of the way you step into that mindset, depending on who you're representing on any given day?
Julian:Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great question to ask. I think the tenets and the foundations are always remains the same. I think the scale of what you're telling may be the one thing that fluctuates. You know, as we talk about Kraft Hockeyville, we talk about MLSE, we talk about community-based marketing. You know, one of the other things that you know I've had within my career is I've also been an entrepreneur. You know, a small business owner with my own company.
Julian:You know that, quite frankly, it was not at the size and scale of a Kraft or an MLSE or even a Lerners, right, but it was a small business. That you know. You know the ability to tell my story, what my service offerings are, what's going to be a point of difference and the why is key. Now, the scale and the size are going to be different. But you know, if you're able to.
Julian:You know the scale and the size are going to be different, but if you're able to really articulate what the value proposition is, which, in a lot of cases, is the why, and then the how, how you're going to get there, what that plan looks like, what those steps are, those are things that quite honestly, help people and companies get around why they should do it and those things kind of really are consistent throughout the entire scope, whether it's a big or small organization or a community trying to rally and do something and win, like a Kraft Hockeyville. So I would really say that you want to lean into those and I've leaned into those to help kind of be a guiding light and then you know, from there hopefully you start to get traction.
Mark:So is there? You mentioned earlier a couple of mentors and I'm wondering if, when you're at the outset of a campaign and somebody engages you and they say, Julian, I need your mind on this, you're the person I need, is there like a handbook that you go to? Is there something that you dip back to when you're thinking of um, you know, maybe you have some downtime You're like on a dip back to basics, like, is there the I? When I was writing music, there was a book called the book and it was like all these things about songwriting, and I was like you know, if I need to do something and I need to start back at basics, I would go back to it and I would take a look at it and say, like, how does what is this? Let me get back to this again. What are the fundamentals of this? What am I looking at here and what does this look like? Do you have a like a kind of a go-to back to basics?
Julian:Yeah, I mean there's a couple of kind of tried and true and you know marketing I would say term marketing, hacks that you have, that you kind of you know lean into to kind of get you know ideation and kind of you know the tenants of what you may have to deliver going.
Julian:You know, briefs have always been a real important component of doing anything and understanding the what, the why, the how, and then being able to have that articulated, and not only for yourself but also for the individuals that you're working with, that really kind of communicate what that means.
Julian:The other thing too, you know is helpful is just understanding how you're able to get things on one page Right we used to call it a plan on a page or you know what that job to be done is and really you know it's something that you know forces a bit of clarity and conciseness on what the objective is and then from there you're able to build right and if you're staying true to that, then that holds everybody a bit accountable and that's kind of the way for me, is a way that I like to work. You know I like to keep things, you know, relatively simple. If we're able to achieve that objective, then we can build on top of that. But those are things for me as I, you know, either navigated on my own or engage with, you know, peers, mentors, colleagues. You know those are helpful.
Julian:And the other thing too is, you know, being able to share and talk through that, because you know not everything essentially should be done in isolation on your own Right, and I think collaboration is a key component of that for me. That's helped kind of deliver some even bigger ideas. Daddy, it's time to take a break.
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Julian:And now back to the show.
Mark:So I want to come back to collaboration, but you mentioned a couple of times going out on your own and being a small business owner. What was the most rewarding part about working on your own and having your own consultancy?
Julian:Wow, the first thing that comes to mind. There's a lot of rewarding parts, but I think the first thing that comes to mind is that you know when you call people pick up the phone and they say yes or they call you.
Julian:I think that you know, that you know.
Julian:For me, it was at a point in my career where I was ready to try something new, and you know, you know.
Julian:I think you know for anybody who knows what it's like to be an entrepreneur whether you're a successful one or a struggling one or a fledgling one you know for someone to believe in your idea, believe in your offering as an individual, I think it's it's so powerful because then you know you can continue Right, and so I would. It's so powerful because then you know you can continue right, and so I would say that the successes and, you know, the opportunities that I've had, you know I'm very grateful for, but I think that there's nothing that beats, you know, when you kind of, you know, let people know, or hang out your shingle, as they say, and you get a callback right, and I think that that is something that you know. Or hang out your shingle, as they say, and you get a call back right, yeah, and I think that that is something that you know just continues to be something that fuels a lot of us who try something new and take a risk to know that, hey, it's going to be okay.
Mark:What is your? I love that you say taking a risk, because as soon as you said try something new, I started taking notes on or jotting down things quickly about risk taking. You know, for all of us who are uninitiated I think we think of a admin as people like Don Draper sitting in a room somewhere and dreaming up things to. You know, I was a huge fan of Mad Men, but I'm not going to, I'm not going to go too far on this one, but I wonder, like what your, what your risk-taking tolerance is. Do you, do you gauge that based on the client that's in front of you? Do you kind of read their risk tolerance as far as how far you want to stretch an idea or the story that you want to tell?
Julian:Yeah, I think I would say generally I'm not a huge risk taker, I like to take calculated risks, but I do like to take risks. So I think you have to delineate both. It's not that I don't like to take risks, I like to take risks. That you know. Okay, if I figure this out, let's continue to go for it. And I think in a lot of cases for me in my career, you know I have taken risks. You know, thankfully, a lot of them have worked out, others they're learning opportunities.
Julian:Like I've moved, I've lived in the U S. You know which is a risk when you are going to a new role and bringing your family, you know, out of the comfort zone and trying to be successful. You know I've taken a risk becoming an entrepreneur, you know. Now, you know some would say you take a risk. You know, after leaving your own business to move back into the corporate world and that you know with MLSE and it's been, you know, a fantastic risk that I've taken. I've thoroughly enjoyed it.
Julian:But it's one of these things where you know you have to continually, you know, be open to opportunities and opportunities are risks right and you have to, you know, put yourself in the right positions to say, yes, this is right for me, and even if it doesn't work out, it's still right for me, right? So I think you know, for me those are. If I look back, you know people would say, yeah, you probably did take risks, but you're not a risk, risky kind of guy and it's like right, yes and no. So I want to kind of have my cake and eat it too on this risk question, because you know, I'm not the one who's going to Casino Niagara to play the tables, you know, with $500 in my jeans. That's not me. But I am somebody who will say, yeah, let's give this a shot, because you know I have a belief, a self-belief, that I'll be able to achieve this in a certain way. So you know, it's a bit of both sides of the coin for me on that question this in a certain way.
Mark:So you know, it's a bit of both sides of the coin for me on that question. We have a friend of the pod who likes to talk about connecting the dots and you know, I think, just as you were saying something, I just remembered this thought, this thing that she was saying about. You know, you make a decision and you make the decision that's right for you, and then you look at the next dot and you consider what the next dot you can connect to is and I wonder sometimes, you know, I look at your career. You're talking about moving your family across the border and working across the border. You look at opportunities. You know, how do you see this kind of galaxy of dots spread out ahead?
Julian:of you.
Mark:And I imagine this is one of those things where you're at MLSE and you're or you're in your own consult consultancy, and then you see this opportunity over here and you're thinking to yourself okay, there are rewards where I am and there's rewards where I'm going to be. You know what is that like? What is that calculus for you?
Julian:Yeah, it's, it's something that in the moment, you know, I end up, you know, having some long conversations with, you know, not only mentors, my family, my faith as well, and just kind of being is this the right time?
Julian:And I think, as I had said before, not against taking risks, just saying, hey, I've given myself the ability to kind of be open to this, now is it the right time to jump. Hey, I've given myself the ability to kind of be open to this, now is it the right time to jump. And so my kind of thought on that is, you know, let's focus on some of those elements and I've given myself the ability to be in this moment because of the work that I've done leading up to it. So those are things that you know, for me, when they do come, I know that I've somehow put myself in the right position to be accepting. Or, you know, for me, when they do come, I know that I've somehow put myself in the right position to be accepting, or, you know, open to saying yes to opportunities, which I'm grateful for. But, you know, I feel like I kind of put myself in the right position, without even knowing it, to get asked that.
Mark:Yeah, it's, you kind of put yourself in the position to make that jump and then doesn't feel like a jump jump, I suppose. Yeah, exactly, I want to ask you a question about when you're talking about going cross-border. So you've held marketing leadership positions in both Canada and the US. Was there a drastic difference between working in those two markets? I guess it's a two-parter, like how do you adapt marketing strategies to different cultural and marketing contexts and how did you find this difference? And I'll give you an example from my personal life.
Mark:Before I went back to law school I did commercials and some other things, artistic things, and I remember being in a commercial. I was a principal, you know, talking role out on a date in a car commercial and all of the actors were black in our commercial. And I got to see it in Canada because we had BET. But there was like a corresponding version of that in Canada where all of the actors were white and it was almost the exact same story. But it was just same same story, same car, different marketing context. So what was your experience in generating content that would have to straddle either side of the border?
Julian:Yeah, my experience in the U S I mean first of all it was it was really positive. I I really enjoyed my time there. I was there for just about four years with raft and so the experience and what I was able to do while I was there was was tremendous. It really helped kind of me in my career. And again, timing is everything, is the right time in my career to make that move. And then, you know, stepping into that role and I was actually based out of Chicago as well, you know, in a Kraft's head office, you know the what I would say the major difference definitely in the US versus Canada from a business standpoint is the ability to make a decision and then go with that decision and have it come to life happens very fast in the US because there's just a certain intensity and I say that in a good way too to try and get business and commerce moving. I think inherently in Canada, you know we're able to do that here too, not at that same level, you know, but I think because you know the market is just so attuned to, you know, delivering revenue, having kind of that, you know, business mindset, once you step into that role, it definitely, you know kind of permeates. You know what I would say you know from. You know working with people and understanding kind of the strategies. The strategies that we have here in Canada are very sound. I mean, you know my work here set me up quite well to do what I needed to do to be successful in the US. So you know I felt that you know what I brought to the table there was very valued.
Julian:And you know my learning and my experience here in Canada was kind of crucial in that you know the ability to kind of wear multiple hats, the ability to kind of cross over and specialize in more than one area. You know kind of be that you know jack of all trades or you know generalist, as they would area. You know kind of be that you know jack of all trades or you know generalist, as they would say. You know and I don't.
Julian:And generalist for me is not a not a bad word and it should be something that you know, you, you lean into because you you're able to kind of do multiple things and do it to a certain degree of professionalism and efficiency is, is, is key. So I would say that those are kind of my learnings from that area and you know Canada, even coming back, you know you saw how. You know it was beneficial, even for me coming back into this market and the learnings that I was able to do to kind of help create senses of not only urgency but also closing the dots and connecting the dots quicker to have business transactions happen. So for me it was really beneficial.
Mark:Yeah, it's, it's. We have a lot of friends who still work on the other side of the border and I always find when we, when we start chatting, I think you're, you've nailed it as far as like the, just the speed, kind of the speed and intensity goes and it's kind of bigger market, more market pressure, I think, to kind of the speed and intensity goes and it's kind of a bigger market, more market pressure, I think, to kind of seize on opportunities quicker, and it's always like, well, you have to move quicker, why? Because somebody is going to be moving on this, going to be jumping on this, right.
Julian:Or you can make money quicker, right, or you can make money quicker, yeah, commerce in the US is king. So you know, there's a lot of ideas that you know I recall quite fondly of. I have an idea like, oh, that's a good idea, here's money to make that happen. And you know, you're like, wow, it was just an idea. It's like, yeah, but it's a good one, let's see if we can make it happen and get back to us as quickly as possible, if you can. And you're like, oh, okay, so this is how it works. Yeah.
Mark:Okay, so I have three days to come up to make this kind of look like it's something. What was your favorite campaign that you worked?
Julian:on. Wow, there's so many. But you know, I would probably say you know, Kraft Hockeyville definitely, you know, is something that has a special place in my head and my heart, as I had mentioned, you know, kind of those two components earlier, for two reasons One, because it was such a powerful community program, you know. But it also was a powerful community program, you know. But it also was a powerful community program that helped Kraft's bottom line too, and I think that that, at the end of the day, when we're able to kind of have that, you know, a powerful program that can deliver when you're in that packaged goods environment, that that's almost like the holy grail.
Julian:And then for me to do that not only in Canada but also in the US I led the launch of the program in the US and engaging that market to take on what was quite honestly a Canadian program where there was a certain element of like, well, it's done in Canada but it's not going to work in the US, and kind of turning that stigma and then and that kind of that narrative around and going back to storytelling, influencing, building up the trust of individuals who said, yes, let's go for it. You know, those are things that, quite frankly, were quite rewarding, and so I would say that comes to mind for me there's been many, many others that really helped deliver the bottom line for companies I work for. You know some tremendous programs with the Toronto Blue Jays that I was a part of. You know some programs here at MLSE that have been fantastic, and then you know I'm always proud of being able to go out on my own as an entrepreneur and deliver. So I'll give you like five answers to that particular question.
Mark:So sorry about that. No, no worries. I was going to say I have an idea, let's do this. Let's do Footballville in the States. Yeah, here's a bunch of money. Make it happen by Monday. Yeah, let's go.
Julian:Somehow, someway, I think they probably would find dollars for that.
Mark:Oh for sure they would. You mentioned something in your answer, though. You're talking about this campaign being special, both in your mind and your head and your heart, and I like to think about consuming as twofold. There are some things I buy because I require them, and there's some things I buy because I just want them. Head and heart division, right, so I suppose my question is what trumps when you're crafting a campaign or when you're putting a strategy together? Is it head or heart, or is it somewhere in between?
Julian:Yeah, I mean, it's probably a bit of both. But here's the thing as we all know, a lot of us are inspired to do things based on emotion. If I'm going to purchase something, hopefully it's a want. We do need certain things we purchase, so there's no doubt about that. But what's going to rally a community, what's going to get someone like yourself, Mark, excited about purchasing something or doing something? There's an emotional component to that that really is key for a lot of us as we think about what a potential program is or what a potential offering is.
Julian:And so for me, you know, if it gets me from an emotional standpoint, you know and I can functionally rationalize why I'm doing this. You know, I think that fits for me and I think if you're able to do that for a consumer in what you're building, I would say it would probably be kind of the one in one A. So that would be best described as opposed to something that's maybe more functional and tactical in nature. Like I need to put gas in my car. That's a functional, tactical in nature. Like you know, I, I, I need to um, I need to put gas in my car.
Julian:That's a. That's a functional, tactical purchase. But you know, the kind of car that I would love to have and I'm going to pursue to purchase is something a little, maybe a little bit more emotional, right? Or your first car, right? So there, so when you think about all those things you know, um, you know there's an emotional attachment that you want to build off of and hopefully it fulfills on that emotional attachment that you build up in your head and it's like, yeah, I'm so happy I did that and I bought it, and you know it could have been worth 2x that I paid for, but it was worth it because of what it's delivered for me.
Mark:So how has this is? This is something that, as you're talking, I was thinking about doom scrolling on various social media, but I think about this all the time because I'm marketed to constantly Sure and like constantly saying I don't want to see this anymore.
Mark:I don't want to look at this, I don't look at this. I'm definitely going to buy this. I'm 100% going to buy this Right. Didn't know, I needed it. I need it tomorrow, yeah. And so I wonder how the advent of things like social media marketing and like the way, the way that it's done now, how that has changed your approach to strategies.
Julian:You know, I think that you know we've always understood in marketing and just in general, that there's so many messages that are coming at you as an individual. You know billions of messages. You know and you're thinking about so many different things throughout the day. You know just the ability to kind of to cut through it continues to still be a key component. So social media provides, you know. You know that continuous challenge, you know, for your time and your attention. So you know, how are we staying relevant? How are we using, you know, potential tools. You know tools such as a media buy or an influencer to help kind of showcase a particular product. Those are all things that come to mind and even for brands that I work for, which are sports teams Leafs, Raptors, TFC and the Argos four great brands that have an emotional attachment for people, especially when the teams are doing well and maybe when they an emotional attachment for people especially when the teams are doing well and maybe when they're not doing well, but especially when they're doing well, what that means to an individual, means to a city, means to a community, means to a country. Those are all powerful things. So when we do something, you know, in a social space. You know how to stay true to that.
Julian:Core tenets of a brand is what hopefully cuts through to a consumer, and I think you'll see that too in your own. You know experience of doom scrolling. You know the one thing that may be cutting through through the scroll because I do it too is like, okay, I can relate, that story or that positioning is something that speaks to me, and then I'm going to give it, you know, instead of like a millisecond, I'm going to give it 10 milliseconds, right, and then that kind of kind of builds off of that. So I think we're always challenged with kind of being able to deliver that, and I think any brand leader would tell you the same that you know the clutter is real, but you know how to tie back to kind of you know what the values are, what you stand for, and then emotionally connect to the consumer in its own way is going to be a key.
Mark:Yeah, it's amazing You're talking about the clutter. I remember, going way back in time, the Dave Chappelle sketch if the internet was a mall and there was all those pop-ups and people who were playing parts in the mall, and my experience now is almost always it feels that way. I'm like, wow, I didn't ask for most of this, like most of this stuff, I didn't request. How is this here?
Julian:Yeah, I liken the internet or, you know, even social media, to what's going on in my head. There's always something popping up right, I don't know about your head, but like, if yours is a quiet storm, then that's pretty good. Mine's got a million things going on in it and it's like, yeah, it's pretty much like you know, scrolling through you know one of these social feeds and, um, you know the ability to kind of stay on one thing or focus on one thing. I think we all wish for to do it even better than we do now, and so, yeah, I think it's just a. You know, look at your feeds. It's probably the same thing is going on in your head at any given moment. I know.
Mark:I'm always, I'm always shocked by how well marketers know me. I'm like I'm surprised, I'm like I don't want that and I'm like fine and I will click, I'll go and I'll check it out.
Mark:Does it come in my size? I do like this colour actually. Yeah, okay, fine, fine, done, fine. I'll buy it. I get it, so I can blame you, for I can, I can blame you or someone like you for for getting me, for for initiating that action in me yeah, someone like me, not me specifically, now that we've chatted for the last little while.
Mark:Hopefully you don't blame me for any of that I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't um, I do want to ask you another question. I know you do some work in diversity, equity and inclusion some DEI work. Yeah, so what changes and challenges do you see in the marketing industry regarding diversity and inclusion?
Julian:It's a great question. You know, first and foremost, you know I identify. I'm a proud black male who is in the marketing space, who's in the marketing space, you know have tried to do a number of things, you know, to provide avenues for young and old BIPOC professionals in my space to kind of, you know, be connected and, you know, provide some element of guidance and mentorship. You know it's important because I think some of the things that we could say, you know quite truthfully, is, you know, moving up through the ranks, there wasn't like there was a lot of people that looked like me in my space. I'm proud that there wasn't, that there wasn't any, but there definitely, you know, was not. You know the number of BIPOC leaders that you would potentially see if you were non-BIPOC moving up the ladder in your own career. So for me it's crucially important. I think the ability for the faces, especially the front faces within companies and corporations really to reflect the city and the country that we're in are key components. I'm proud to have started an association with five other founders called POCAM, which stands for People of Color in Advertising and Marketing. You know POCAM really focuses on, you know, providing, you know, a vision and voice for those who are moving into the marketing and advertising space. You know whether they're early stage in their career or currently in their career. You know looking for tools to provide, you know things that they need to continue to progress in their career.
Julian:So you know, I think we can all safely say that you know the work that's being done by many great organizations.
Julian:You know there's still a lot to go.
Julian:You know I think a lot of us have engaged really within the last couple of years, but it's important to remember that this is something that needs to continue for many, many years moving ahead. And you know, honestly, there's probably dips and dips that will happen in awareness, or you know the fervor around certain things, but there really shouldn't be any dipper fervor when you're trying to do the right thing Right and organizations and individuals should really, you know, feel that this is the right thing to do as far as ensuring that DE&I becomes a bedrock in an organization, because the studies have shown, you know, when you're able to have a diverse workforce, you know, the performance of the organization, you know, from a business standpoint, is exponentially better. So those are things that for me, are drivers and you know I take some of the positions that I've had in large organizations you know, as a testament to not only the work that I've done but the people around me who've helped me get there, and I want to be able to do the same.
Mark:I love that you said that and I think it's so important. I think um demonstrating other outcomes for people in our communities. Again, I'm a I'm a proud black man and, uh, I think it's very important for us to demonstrate other outcomes and actually champion, mentor and champion as we move through. Um, and something I've noticed in your industry um, I have noticed the external facing, so the actual campaigns themselves shifting to start including more people who look like me, people like, through the years started seeing print ads that feature families that look like mine and advertising that feature people with different gender identities, like just the whole kind of the whole rainbow of things being represented in front of us transforming over the years. And do you think that's a direct relationship? There's a direct relationship, like a one-to-one, between the boardroom shifting and the outside, the product changing as well.
Julian:I think it's a bit. I think it's that and I think it's also a product of you know just where we are in society and the country we live in. You know, I would say, has business changed dramatically? That you've seen you know BIPOC families in a car ad or you know LGBTQ plus. You know families in, you know, a packaged goods ad. You know like what part of you know that is really been something that we would say if we did this as a business. This is going to change or negatively impact us.
Julian:I think you know we see this in our daily lives. We see, you know the diversity of our population in Canada. We see that you know where we're striving towards as far as you know, showcasing everybody who's across the country, and I think that there's a balance right, and I think you know seeing that balance on your TV screen or in your social feeds just is a better reflection of the country that we live in. So you know I'm pleased to see it. I know that you know, maybe 10 years ago you wouldn't see it and we've transitioned and you know we're moving towards being a little bit more balanced and I think that's a good thing. So you know, hopefully it continues.
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Julian:And now back to the show.
Mark:I want to talk for a tick about your role at MLSE. So you're in a senior leadership role over there and this is something that I know you're very excited about. Definitely, I wonder if you could speak to what your day-to-day looks like If I'm a kid at home listening not that children at home are listening to a podcast about a lawyer and a man who made a better choice and is not a lawyer but if they were to look at your day to day and they'd say you know, I want to be like Julian. What does your day look like?
Julian:Yeah, my day is it's full, it's a busy day, but I think that you know I wouldn't have't have it any other way. So I'm proud to be a part of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, truly one of the leading sports entertainment companies globally. The work that we do when it comes to sports entertainment, but also where we are from social justice causes and community focused initiatives, is just tremendous. And you know I'm glad to have been a part of this organization for the better part of two years. Now.
Julian:My day to day is I lead our corporate partnership group, you know, which really ties back into you know partnership and sponsorship of, you know companies that want to be associated with our four teams as well as our buildings, so that you know day encapsulates a lot of meetings, conversations on how we're able to deliver. You know business opportunities and you know coming together and you know kind of a like-minded initiatives that you know brands want to be associated with our teams and the teams want to be associated with the brand. So developing kind of the strategies around that you know are part of my day to day. Also, leading a team of 15 that are both sales and strategists in developing what the ideation and the go to market strategies are for our deals. So it ends up being a pretty full day from, I guess, sunup to sundown.
Mark:As a kid who grew up kind of in the shadow of Vince Carter and the beginning of that kind of Raptor fandom in those days, I look very closely at how the Raptors as a brand as this you know the branding is is awesome, yeah, but I wonder um, you know not, I wonder the? The profile of Toronto has has absolutely exploded it has Toronto generally.
Mark:I don't just mean just Toronto, just just basketball absolutely exploded and the partnership that you have with drake, for example, and the, the another rebranding every now and the jerseys and that type of thing as well. I mean that type of scale and scope and shift and again we're talking about storytelling here. I mean that must create a lot of opportunities for people in a position like you. Toronto itself is on the rise.
Julian:Yeah.
Mark:And, of course, you get to be sitting in with one of the top brands. So true, so true.
Julian:I think the story that we have with our teams is also a story over the city of Toronto, and I'm a huge believer and proponent of how both have been a part of driving each other. The city continues to be a global city on a global scale and people when they think of Toronto, they think of so many things the Leafs, the Raptors, Drake, you know TFC Argos in their own way, yeah, and the fact that you know we are, you know, quite frankly, you know the world is within our city limits, with so many people coming here and wanting to be a part of what Toronto has to offer. So you know that you know leads into another word that we can talk about is culture. Right, culture is important, right, and you're telling your story and people you know on the outside, looking in, you know of the city who want to come here, are like they're coming here for that. They're coming here to be a part of the culture of Toronto and what Toronto brings.
Julian:So you know I in my, in my own head, and I'll share it here is you know, people say people say New York, Los Angeles, the third city or the first in that three pack always has to be Toronto, because we truly are a global city and you know, I get to see how that manifests itself every day. And you know, for the rest of Canada it's something that you know. Hopefully we get embraced and hopefully we embrace the rest of Canada back outwards as well, because it truly is something special to have, you know, a city on that level doing so many great things. So you know we're talking. I know you're based in London, so you've got to come down to Toronto as many times as you can because it truly is a special place.
Mark:Oh yeah, without a question. Without a question, it's, it truly is a special place. Oh yeah, without a question, without a question, I, I, it's, you know, world-class. I always tell people all the time, you know I like um a big fan of Los Angeles, but I'm like Toronto in the summertime is a hundred percent, it's better and it's and it's all centralized. I'm like I don't know what to tell you. It's just better. If you're it's, it's the same thing, but it's better, it's all it's and it's all closer. All right, so I know you're a busy man. You got things to do. I've I one more question I want to ask you.
Mark:I ask everybody who comes on um cause we talk about often. You know triumphs and your favourite, your favourite campaigns and your successes. But I like to ask people what their favourite failure was, the favourite thing that they got wrong or that didn't get quite right, and the and and what. I like to phrase it this way. First time I asked that people out their eyes always kind of light up. They're like favourite failure. I didn't. How can you enjoy failure? I'm like no failure teaches you something. So what was your, what was your favourite?
Julian:uh, favourite failure? Wow, uh, great question. Uh, you know, I think my favourite failure, um, was, uh, you know, an an opportunity that I had to run a small company that, quite honestly, didn't work out as well as it could have or should have for me, but it really led me into kind of where I wanted to go in my next opportunity, and what I learned about is how are you able to lead in a different way, share articulate things that, quite, you know, quite honestly, are important to have people understand what your why is. And you know it was a transition for me from you know managing, you know, a small team to larger teams and setting, you know, goals in the strategy that was going to be successful for everybody and just not for myself, and I think that I learned, you know, the importance of that and it actually, you know, set myself up for my next role and my subsequent roles, because it was something that you're like, you know what you, as I say, Julian, talking to myself now, yeah, I talk to myself all the time too.
Julian:Yeah, and you had a lot of things going for you, but you lacked it in this area and you needed to learn how to be better in this space, and so I think that was something that I would say has continued to set me up. And failure is a part of the journey and I think, as I sit here, failure is gonna continue to come my way as much as success is. It's just how do I continue to kind of learn from that, mitigate the failures so they're not large ones, but also, when they come, learn from them and keep moving, because the achievement for me is really how do I bounce back or continue or help somebody move forward with what I've learned? So you know, favourite failure, not afraid of failure all those things are part of kind of my own personal journey.
Mark:Yes, yes, thank you. I could not have put it better, and I'm glad that you didn't get crossed up by that one at all, and I'm glad that you didn't get you didn't get crossed up by that one at all, and I'm glad that that one didn't.
Mark:I didn't cross you up. Awesome Ladies and gentlemen, it has been a real pleasure talking to Julian Franklin. Julian, thank you so much for your time today. I'm going to let you get back to the, to the important, important business of hounding Drake so he can get that autographed jersey over to me Exactly, and I hope to see you in person sometime soon.
Julian:Thank you, mark, absolute pleasure. Thanks again for the time. Take care Take care.
Mark:Thank you for listening to this episode of Anything but Law. I hope you found it as inspiring and insightful as I did. This episode is recorded at Charterhouse Studios in London, Ontario, with sound design and editing by Aaron Murray. Our theme music is by the Boys. Special thanks to the marketing team at Learners, especially Natalie Davis and Dylan Willems. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate and leave a review on your favourite podcast platform. It really helps us reach more listeners, just like you. If you have any questions, feedback or would like to be a guest on the show, reach out to us at marketin@ learners. ca Anything but Law is a Learners Business Law Group production. Thanks for joining us. Cheers.